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0 Comments but probably not first...
Anyway, enough with the half-skadden already. Can't we just call it market? Jeez. It's like you write for the Enquirer and are trying to stir up some drama. Might have worked for the first firm (Cravath) but by the 10th or 11th it's old.

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Who? Has anyone heard of this firm before?

Ugh, S&C please announce so I can stop reading this crappy blog

"Good job A&O. Way to keep up apperances. There's no way we'd deny you your time in the spotlight just because you sent out a bonus announcement at the close of business"

Way to keep up "apperances" to you to, bro.

Anyway I hear another way to keep up "apperances" and to avoid the dreaded "spotlight" is to not pay bonuses, freeze salaries, and lay people off.

But oh noes, you're going to call them "half-skadden" - I bet all those A&O people are going to quit effecive tomorrow. Shut up already please.

"Good job A&O. Way to keep up apperances. There's no way we'd deny you your time in the spotlight just because you sent out a bonus announcement at the close of business"

Way to keep up "apperances" to you too, bro.

Anyway I hear another way to keep up "apperances" and to avoid the dreaded "spotlight" is to not pay bonuses, freeze salaries, and lay people off.

But oh noes, you're going to call them "half-skadden" - I bet all those A&O people are going to quit effecive tomorrow. Shut up already please.

"Good job A&O. Way to keep up apperances. There's no way we'd deny you your time in the spotlight just because you sent out a bonus announcement at the close of business"

Way to keep up "apperances" to you too, bro.

Anyway I hear another way to keep up "apperances" and to avoid the dreaded "spotlight" is to not pay bonuses, freeze salaries, and lay people off.

But oh noes, you're going to call them "half-skadden" - I bet all those A&O people are going to quit effecive tomorrow. Shut up already please.

I'd like some "revnues."

"6th higest"

Firms need to make the counterintuitive realization that they should start announcing before 5. Otherwise they have to spend a long, cold night at the top of ATL.

Dammit, Elie! All for-profit organizations have an obligation to their shareholders/members/partners to pay their employees as little as the market will bear. Competition dictates that organizations cannot shortchange their employees too much, or other organizations will take advantage of the opportunity to poach talent, and their employees will go elsewhere.

However, in this legal market, "elsewhere" is not really an option. So firms are following their obligation to maximize profit, and are cutting the bonuses of their employees. This is RATIONAL behavior.

On a less analytical note, as Artie Lang might quip: "I'm 27 years old, I do work that a trained monkey could handle, and I ONLY get paid $210,000. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh!!!"

what about Paul Hastings?

Good thing there was a memo attached...
Hard to beleive anything else on this site. So far everything about my firm has been inaccurate or exaggerated...
Where did Lat go????

Ellie,

You need to consider what you're writing. Revenues are not the same as profits. Revenues are whats coming in from legal fees. They're used to pay associates, secretaries, office leases, and for everything else a law firm consumes (electricity, heat, alcohol, etc . . .).

Just because a law firm has high revenues does not mean it has equally high profits. You need to deduct costs first. Additionally, with revenues slowing due to the global decline in transactional work, most firms are building up a cushion.

I don't work at A&O, but I do work at a law firm. If you have had any practical legal work experience, it doesn't show through in your analysis of bonuses. Other firms aren't "Half-Skadden," they're being prudent given the current market turmoil.

Sincerely,
Big Law Associate

5 - Allen & Overy is a top U.K. firm, a member of the "Magic Circle."

15 - Most posts on this site have a memo and/or official firm comment. But if you find the site inaccurate, then don't read it.

Elie,

I say this in the friendliest possible way:

HOW LONG COULD IT POSSIBLY TAKE TO CUT AND PASTE YOUR TEXT INTO WORD OR A SIMILAR PROGRAM TO SEE IF THE SQUIGGLEY RED LINE CAN BE SEEN UNDERNEATH ANY OF YOUR TYPED WORDS!?!?!? TRUST ME, DOING SO WOULD BE MUCH BETTER THAN GETTING THAT EXTRA 30 SECOND JUMP ON THE WALL STREET JOURNAL LAW BLOG.

"Way to keep up "apperances" to you to, bro."

Way to keep up "apperances" to you, TOO

Jackass. .

Three comments came in at 5:43, but only I was FIRST.

-first

why do people care so much what S&C is going to pay? it's clear what the market level is now. S&C paying more isn't going to automatically trigger every other firm to follow suit, especially given where we are with the market right now

besides sheer curiosity, people should find better things to do with their lives. S&C bonuses will not affect you, unless you work at S&C.

Did they really write that bonuses will be paid at the time of payment? That's like saying "Elie will stop eating donuts when he stops eating donuts."

"I hear that one good way to keep revenues high is to pay your employees as little as the market will bear."

Actually, what you pay your employees has NOTHING to do with revenue...revenue is the money coming in, BEFORE expenses were paid.

Did the author of this post go to college? High school?

Elie: You've been doing good work lately. I'm becoming a believer. Keep it up by avoiding the left-wing drivel/race/gender issues.

21
Yeah, well I will be working at S&C, dipshit
-6

Yes, Elie...every single decision made by every single firm is to avoid your all-seeing eye. Given that today is Tuesday, there is NOOO way that anyone could have found out about A&O's bonus announcement on Wednesday since they released it after business hours on Tuesday.

Fucking gasp.

When will David Lat pull his head out of his ground and fire this fat shit assclown?

What is up with all the people on this website defending firms that pull the half-skadden? Is there any doubt that these posters are either partners, firm recruiting coordinators or tools?

OH MY FUCKING GOD

WHY IS MYSTTTAL STILL HERE

As someone already working at S&C, I can say that 6/25's apparent attitude will help them crash and burn quickly, rather than getting stuck on matters and becoming a necessary evil for all others involved.

Thanks, 6/25.

27, I agree. F'in Bonus Apologists. If you're at a Half-Skadden firm, you're half a man.

i like how Elie makes these firms feel bad about giving 1/2 Skadden boni. they deserve it, especially those firms that have had better years in '08 than '07. Cravath started this b/c they had a crappy '08 and expect a worse '09. firms that had good years in '08 and expect better in '09 have no justification for pulling a 1/2 Skad other than partner greed. bottom line: if you had a crappy year as a firm and/or expect a terrible new year ahead, you're justified in giving out bad boni. if that's not the case, using the "market" as an excuse to screw your associates is evil. karma's a bitch and it will come back to haunt those firms.

16: Your analysis is too rigid. Try again, and this time assume that law firms operate in a perfectly competitive environment and thus compete for business solely on price.

Elie is the man. See the light and stop hating.

27 - Or out of job junior associates who think those who still have a job and are getting paid any money at all are lucky.

33 is Elie

Why are firms even giving out bonuses at all? They should create a little cushion so they don't have to fire additional associates a few months down the line when the economy continues to go down the toilet.

Magic Circle Jerk here-
Will this set the tone for all of us?

31: You think bonuses are profit-sharing? All the evidence suggests otherwise.

what do high revenues have to do with minimizing costs? why am i even reading this?

Sorry that 17 and 23 beat me to the punch. I have refrained from bashing Elie to date but that comment about revenues displayed his ignorance. This blog really has dropped in stature and importance. I don't know why I keep reading it.

Can we please, please PLEASE stop pretending that firms paying lockstep bonuses are not paying market?!

Of course I have no freaking idea if A&O pays lockstep or not but haven't we got the point where we know every lockstep firm is not paying Skadden bonuses (that are based on hours) so can we STOP WITH THE WHINING ALREADY??

God this is tedious.

@37: Are you in the US or the UK? If the UK, how is the market there? I've heard from some it's even worse than NYC. Thoughts?

hey dipshit 25.

the fact that you will be working at s&c (if that even is true) doesn't mean shit, dipshit. the economy could tank further next year and s&c could do away with bonuses altogether...or maybe s&c has a stellar 09 and raises bonuses. either way, this year's s&c bonus amount is for the most part irrelevant at this point unless you're receiving it....bitch.

Seriously Ellie. All your half-Skadden bonus posts sound the same. It is really getting old. You sound like a whiny little biznatch. At least Lat would have thought of something creative instead of repeating the same old tired lines about BIGLAW firm screwing over associate, treating everyone like crap, world going to hell because I'm making a 22.5k bonus instead of 50k. Blahblahblah. LOSER

People are so angry sometimes...everybody just cool out.

42: 41 here. I'm in the UK (US qualified). I'm busy. Some of my colleagues are as busy as I am, some are not. Depends on the area. I hear my NY colleagues are not busy at all (don't know the truth of it).

Isn't not getting fired in this economy (AND making 6 figures) bonus enough?

38 - I would not presume that bonuses are profit-sharing, but I would also not presume that law firms pay irresponsibly high bonuses simply to match the market in good years. I would think that a firm would not give a good bonus (eg, 2007) if such firm had a crap year. Similarly, I would think that a firm would not pay a bad bonus if it had a good year. Perhaps I've erred by assuming that law firms are managed by individuals with the slightest bit of business sense.

I guess 25 got away from the Douche Patrol somehow.

If you are a BIGLAW associate and you are really worrying about bonuses as much as ELLIE then you are an IDIOT. Worry about billing hours and keeping your job.

Ellie doesn't have to care because he can still afford his dozen donuts each morning regardless of what job he has.

Cahill gordon?

@46: Yeah, it's pretty slow here in NYC. I'd like to make the move to London, but it appears that those plans must be put on hold for a while. Also, are you planning on becoming UK qualified, or just sticking with your US qualification?

Thanks.

@51: To whom or what was your question aimed?

A&O is apparently doing stealth lay offs. I have a friend who's a junior associate going through the rotation system. He basically got reprimanded while he was in the litigation department for doing poor doc review. It was totally made up BS. How can you mess up doc review. Now he is in some other department but he was told he only has a few months to improve or he's out. It's all BS. They are just doing stealth lay-offs, trying to reduce headcount by giving people poor performance reviews.

If Lat was still here, he'd investigate this, but since Ellie is here he will just sit on his butt and keep posting about half-Skadden bonuses for the next three weeks.

I propose a "boycott ATL" day this Friday in protest of the garbage that is MysTTTal's work product. Everyone must unite and boycott ATL until Lat and others get their heads out of their asses and lay off MysTTTal.

I already miss the butt cheeks commenter.

Anyone heard anything about Cahill Gordon's bonuses?

52: From 46 / 41...working on getting UK-qualified (it's an easy exam compared to NY/CA bar), but not sure what good it will do (but a great line on the resume). UK and US qualified tend to glom together on most deals and share the pain / know-how. London seems to have less consistency (i.e. more ups and downs) but generally to bill slightly more per year than our US counterparts. Nonetheless would highly recommend the move even for a short while - London is terrific.

fifty ninth

At this moment, Ellie is salivating at the thought of another half-Skadden bonus at some firm, and thought of the leftover roast beef sandwich he'll be eating tonight.

@58: Thanks for the info--I'll keep my fingers crossed that I can make the move in the next year or so. Apparently hiring is pretty frozen at the moment, but maybe it will thaw out over the year. And about UK qualification, I figure it would be good for other parts of the world too--Asia, ME, etc. Just in case you want to go globe trotting.

61: Good luck! 58.

Revenues, expenses and profits are, of course, different things entirely -- but Elie may not be as dumb as you all are saying. Clients will not stand for firms that both (i) raise rates and (ii) pay ridiculous (and, let's face it, unearned) bonuses. There is, in fact, a connection between bonuses and revenues. Partners understand this, even if associates don't.

13 - Why do you (and others) keep insisting that associates do "monkey work"? Aside from more senior attorneys in my field, no one understands the intricacies of what I think about on a daily basis. Have you ever tried to give one of your simplest research assignments to a secretary or paralegal? How did that work out? Please don't sell yourself (and others by extension) short.

Has anyone heard of Cahill Gordon?

"I hear that one good way to keep revenues high is to pay your employees as little as the market will bear."

MysTTTal: Paying your employees less would increase profit, not revenue.

If you work in corporate, you've heard of Cahill.

54: "How can you mess up a document review?"

You're an idiot or a law student. How about producing privileged documents? Or producing commercially sensitive documents not relevant to the dispute? Or failing to identify "hot docs" essential to litigation strategy?

58 & 61 etc. - Magic Circle Jerk here

US-qualified, started in US office but now in UK. Downcycle-focused group so we are incredibly busy. No "redundancies" (UK double-speak for layoffs) at our level here just yet, though I know some people are twiddling their thumbs. Hiring is slow, but if you have experience in the right area, you are gold. Our bonuses, who knows?
no announcement yet. 46,41- any rumours in your shop?

also, I would only get UK qualified if I was heading to Asia next. It's not that hard so I'll only do it if I head east.

68- you are a moron. 54 is saying that A&O is giving people bad performance reviews for doing poor document review, even when they are f-king it up. They are just making up crap to get people out eventually. You are f-king stupid. Only an idiot would make the doc review mistakes you suggest, and they'd be fired immediately if they did.

Wrote 48: "Perhaps I've erred by assuming that law firms are managed by individuals with the slightest bit of business sense." Um, yes...

58: A&O is great firm equal to any firm in the U.S. And you are right--London IS terrific. Blows N.Y. out of the water as a place to live IMO. More parks, more attractive, better day trips outside of it, more space for your money, cool shirt shops, and now at $1.49, a bloody bargain. US lawyer, used to live in London, want to come back. Don't you think the economy though prevents a move right now?

Good luck!

58------does it bother you at all that COLA is lower than U.S. firms and disappears after 3 years. Cravath pays 110K in COLA--well, 60K now after sterling's devaluation--but still well above A&O. I guess what I am asking is is there a benefit to magic circle/A&O over U.S. firm given generally lower COLAs. What are your hours like? What is your general time of depature?

I miss mustache guy. It is DEFINITELY time for a long ride!

Anyone know if Sidley announced?

So what? We are in a recession. Be thankful that you have a job - that's your bonus right there. This sense of entitlement is getting crazy.

Skadden gave FULL bonuses this year.

A&O is definitely doing stealth layoffs. I have a friend who works there as an associate and he told me that they recently cut a lot of people from their capital markets group under an 'interim performance review" and made them sign confidentiality agreements. The cuts were focused on their international associates working in the NY office. They also recently fired all part-time secretaries and evening secretaries.

revenue =/= ppp

nor does revenue have anything to do with expenses per se....

Thank you, 3. The Half-Skadden "joke" was beaten to death a week ago, and now ATL is just kicking it in the crouch.

We get it. Lower bonuses.

NOT FUNNY.

BE MORE FUNNY.

I'm sure plenty of people have already said it, but revenues aren't profits you fucking Harvtard.

What 54 says is true. A&O has been doing stealth layoffs like this for a while. It's a tough market but tell your friend to start looking elsewhere now. His performance at this point is irrelevant - they're going to say he hasn't improved enough to meet their amorphous standards and he'll be out.

"I hear that one good way to keep revenues high is to pay your employees as little as the market will bear."
Tsk, tsk Elie....explain please...how one keeps revenue "high" when it has slowed to a trickle yet the cost of doing business remains constant? Srewing the staff and associates while payout to partners remains constant is the fast track to bankruptcy .
Any firm that wishes to remain viable will cut where they have to and that includes money paid to partners as well as associates.
I suspect, Elie, you are a fraud or an idiot....perhaps both.

58: I understand you are a US qualified lawyer and are preparing for the UK bar. Are you able to take the UK bar? I was told that one needs 2 years of experience practicing UK law to be able to sit for the UK bar, and therefore your work on US law does not count. Can anyone confirm this?

WOULD A BOYCOTT OF ATL ACTUALLY WORK? PEOPLE HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING ABOUT MYSTTTAL FOR MONTHS.

69: We announced bonuses - market rate for lockstep firms.

72: Hard to tell if the economy prevents a move right now - depends on what firm and what you're doing. Isn't A&O up by 11% or something crazy like that right now?

73: I'm in a US firm. There are a lot of ups and downs in re hours, but as I said above I think we bill slightly more than NY by year's end. COLA is nice but fading with the exchange rate. I'm not incredibly bothered by that - it is a cost of living adjustment, after all. At this point in my career, I'm willing to trade salary for good quality interesting work and a reasonable work-life balance.

84: The rules on taking the QLTT exam just changed on September 1, 2008. Prior to September 1, a year's internship was not necessary. Now, you have to "intern" under a UK solicitor's supervision for a year in order to take the test. It's not clear what interning means in that context - I doubt it means becoming a trainee. Probably means working with a UK solicitor or a year but not exclusively. My application for a certificate of eligibility was in before September 1 so I'm under the old rules.

41 / 46 / 58.

if you douchetards were worth keeping around, your firms would find a way to make you happy

lockstep bonii is a myth - the performers are being paid, but you don't know about it (cos you suck and your firm wants you to leave)

I don't know what's up with Elie. It seems like he thinks of himself as the union leader for all Biglaw associates, always complaining about this or that firm being soooo unfair by lowering bonuses or freezing salaries.

Although blogs usually not only contain plain information, but also some opinion, I view this site more as an information source with funny comments following. But I'm just not interested at all in Elie's opinion.

Can someone please confirm first-hand that A&O is doing stealth layoffs, rather than "I have a friend who works there"?

I work at A&O in NY. There have been no stealth layoffs. This "I have a friend" stuff is BS.

I work at A&O in NY. There have been no stealth layoffs. This "I have a friend" stuff is BS.

I work at A&O in NY. There have been no stealth layoffs. This "I have a friend" stuff is BS.

I work at A&O in NY. There have been no stealth layoffs. This "I have a friend" stuff is BS.

I'm sorry 90-93, I didn't catch that. Mind repeating yourself.

I stand in awe of 64's intricate thought processes! Where's the Douche Patrol when you need him?

78--Not even a little true. Not sure where you get your info, but find a new source.

Also, we should reconsider our definition of "stealth layoffs"--we all know that firms carry dead weight most of the time. Lazy associates doing subpar work and padding their hours. Firms should be cutting the fat at times like this (in fact, should have been getting rid of those people already). I feel bad for people losing their jobs, but not bad enough to do more work for less pay so we can carry the less qualified.