This delicious Hunan Chicken is making me FIRSTy!

Edamame! Eat my ass #6!

Somebody needs to look up the definition of "market rate"

first

At what point did "market" come to mean the highest out there rather than the usual rate? Just because you pay 20 bucks for a 2-liter of Coke doesn't make that the market price. It just makes you an idiot.

Third

UK bonuses are higher than US!!!!

Why do you still call it Half-Skadden? Skadden is obviously the outlier. The market clearly isn't Skadden. The market is what these guys - Cravath, Dewey, etc. - are paying. You're not going to make these other firms look bad because one firm had an extraordinary year, planned ahead, cut costs elsewhere, etc.

Would you rather they be called "Half-Orrick"?

Ok, I'm a Skadden associate and even I am starting to get annoyed with this "Half-Skadden" crap.

Stop it. I will still gloat, but now it's just gotten tacky.

-Skadden Associate

Just to be clear: Dewey is the first firm with an hours minimum to impose the half-bonus, correct?

I think most other firms will follow suit but theres a big difference between lockstep firms cutting everyone's big bonuses and minimum hours firms cutting bonuses that only apply to people with actual work!

Only tools comment on these posts.

12 - agree. They are saving a lot more money.

Sucks for Dewey associates, at least in transactional practices. I know quite a few lawyers over there, and like most transactional lawyers in NYC they are not even close to 2000 hours this year. 1600 maybe, but not 2000. And for you gunner law students who think 2000 is easy if you include pro bono - in my experience no one ever takes on more than 100 hours worth of pro bono work in a single year for fear of getting slammed with real work on top of pro bono commitments when things pick up.

Showing pounds instead of dollars just makes it feel a lot classier.

Things must be REALLY bad at Milbank if Dewey beat them to the punch.

Can we call Dewey "Crystal Skadden"? You know, like Crystal Pepsi? Wouldn't that be cool? Or maybe "Skadsel" after Skadden and the Edsel. Nah. We should probably save Skadsel for Sullivan & Cromwell. We also have to get around to Skanotpayingashighabonusbecasethemarketsucksden.

Good point 12. Firms with hours requirements could probably pay the Skadden bonus and still save money, given how few associates actually made their hours this year. They'd get the PR bump of paying above market, but only have to pay out to a small percentage of associates.

17 - sorry you were fired by Milbank. get over it.

Agree with #9. It is time for everyone to admit that Skadden just did better this year and is in a stronger position for these difficult times than its peers. Skadden is not market - it is better than market.

isn't it "LeBoeuf" with a capital B? Elie's rendition of the firm's name doesn't match the name in the memo. Elie must have failed high school French.

Wake up, this IS market rate.

Don't forget that Skadden went first. I bet you they would have given very different bonuses if they had waited a week. Even if they can afford what they're giving now, why would they not want to give market rate if they knew better and had not committed already?

Can we call Dewey "Crystal Skadden"? You know, like Crystal Pepsi? Wouldn't that be cool? Or maybe "Skadsel" after Skadden and the Edsel. Nah. We should probably save Skadsel for Sullivan & Cromwell. We also have to get around to Skanotpayingashighabonusbecasethemarketsucksden.

Agree with #9. It is time for everyone to admit that Skadden just did better this year and is in a stronger position for these difficult times than its peers. Skadden is not market - it is better than market.

TYPO ALERT! "...market rate? Half=Skadden opened..."

MysTTTal.

When is S&C's partner meeting?

my firm is paying full bonus plus special, but only if you billed > 2800 hrs (incl pro bono). Otherwise, you get zero. Wait for the announcement -- our prestige will skyrocket!

"Only tools comment on these posts."

So doesn't that make . . . oh, forget it. Too easy.

Skadden is the market leader.... The rest of you tools need to stop whining on behalf of your crappy partners that are hoarding their dollars...

Did anyone expect such a TTT to actually match Skadden?

--K&E Associate.

30: If what you say is true, then Skadden has NEVER met market, because they've always been behind Wachtell.

It's a terrible move to give Dewey PR credit for matching market when they're imposing a 2000 hours minimum to get a bonus. The typical associate at all these firms this year is not billing 2000 hours, so Dewey is paying way less in bonus comp than other firms. Treating them as matching gives other firms an incentive to impose a cutoff.

I would be careful about gloating, Skadden. Think of your brothers in DC who will be having a dismal Christmas.

Please immediately update with a photo and bio of Eliza Gray.

S&C will probably announce today; the partners just finished a lunch meeting.

stop pretending you weren't at walmart last friday, you fat ass.

who knew harvard had affirmative action for fat people?

i work at a hours minimum bonus and was wondering if anyone know if 2000 hours minimum to get a bonus was announced at beginning of year or if this is a retroactive requirement they just added?

it's also not a match because dewey will pay the bonus months after the other firms that have already announced.

13 - nailed it

Look, Skadden didn't set the market any more than WLRK or K&E sets the market. They simply chose to pay more than the folks over at Cravath, etc.

Face it - Cravath set the market. Skadden (and most likely, WLRK and K&E) exceeded the market.

Now STFU.

Why didn't they announce bonuses for the Bratislava office??

Kudos to D&L for stepping up to support the junior associates, who have little to no control over their hours. They're the complete opposite from some firms that are laying them off due to low hours.

PPP numbers will be really interesting. We'll get to see if Skadden is really in a stronger position, and which of the other firms cut bonuses just to inflate PPP.

The reason why I keep calling Skadden "market rate" is because all of these firms "promised" to pay people at the top of the market. STB even includes the promise in their recruiting materials (and for everybody else so far, the promise is implicit).

These firms that are paying Half-Skadden rates are either saying: A) Skadden values their associates more than we do, B) We no longer wish to pay our associates as if they were they best of the best., C) We are in much worse financial state than Skadden.

I don't know which answer these firms are trying to telegraph but it's pretty clear that words like "top" and "elite" no longer apply to these firms when it comes to associate compensation.

You get a better bonus as a first year at Skadden than you will as a 7th year at Half-Skadden. That is just a fact. If you want to say that the firms are still in the same "tier" that's fine. But if you try to give "prestige" back to your loan officer, you'll find that all they care about is money.
--Elie

12 is dead on. This looks like the first firm to really screw associates by maintaining an hours minimum, then slashing the bonus in half once that minimum is met.

I know Dewey, White/Case, Sidley, Milbank all have hours minimums... anywhere else?

9,
Not that I want to defend the horrible idiocy that is this blog's calling card, but they are paying half of what Skadden is. That's "Half-Skadden". And if you guys think that CSM and all the other firms paying the smaller bonus amount COULDN'T pay Skadden bonuses, you're kidding yourselves. They're simply choosing not to, for reasons which may or may not be prudent. Considering CSM's gambit is going according to plan, it's hard to argue with the prudence from the partners' perspectives.

Senior associates are completely fucked. going from a six figure bonus to $32,500? horrific.

yes, Dewey had the 2000 hrs requirement last year too.

I nailed 13.

Why is skadden market and not WLRK?

Dear NY Associates:

I am so sorry for all of the difficulty and sadness my firm has caused you and your families. As usual, I allowed my greed, ego and small penis interfere with my judgment.
It is my sincere hope that law students around the country will not look negatively upon Cravath because I was too cheap to see past my own need to overcompensate.
And I know, Bob Joffe would never have needed to demonstrate his manhood in such a fashion. Then again, I am living off the good will and talent he fostered, so this is to be expected from a second rate intellect and manager such as myself.
So again, I apologize and sincerely hope that S&C comes through for the sake of other NY associates who deserve better than my pitiful excuse for leadership.

Sincerely
Evan Chesler

Dear NY Associates:

I am so sorry for all of the difficulty and sadness my firm has caused you and your families. As usual, I allowed my greed, ego and small penis interfere with my judgment.
It is my sincere hope that law students around the country will not look negatively upon Cravath because I was too cheap to see past my own need to overcompensate.
And I know, Bob Joffe would never have needed to demonstrate his manhood in such a fashion. Then again, I am living off the good will and talent he fostered, so this is to be expected from a second rate intellect and manager such as myself.
So again, I apologize and sincerely hope that S&C comes through for the sake of other NY associates who deserve better than my pitiful excuse for leadership.

Sincerely
Evan Chesler

Dear NY Associates:

I am so sorry for all of the difficulty and sadness my firm has caused you and your families. As usual, I allowed my greed, ego and small penis interfere with my judgment.
It is my sincere hope that law students around the country will not look negatively upon Cravath because I was too cheap to see past my own need to overcompensate.
And I know, Bob Joffe would never have needed to demonstrate his manhood in such a fashion. Then again, I am living off the good will and talent he fostered, so this is to be expected from a second rate intellect and manager such as myself.
So again, I apologize and sincerely hope that S&C comes through for the sake of other NY associates who deserve better than my pitiful excuse for leadership.

Sincerely
Evan Chesler

Dear NY Associates:

I am so sorry for all of the difficulty and sadness my firm has caused you and your families. As usual, I allowed my greed, ego and small penis interfere with my judgment.
It is my sincere hope that law students around the country will not look negatively upon Cravath because I was too cheap to see past my own need to overcompensate.
And I know, Bob Joffe would never have needed to demonstrate his manhood in such a fashion. Then again, I am living off the good will and talent he fostered, so this is to be expected from a second rate intellect and manager such as myself.
So again, I apologize and sincerely hope that S&C comes through for the sake of other NY associates who deserve better than my pitiful excuse for leadership.

Sincerely
Evan Chesler

elie - why do you bother responding to these morons? write whatever the hell you want. i find it hilarious that so many people have issues with the way the blog is run, but are sitting at their desks hitting refresh every five minutes to see the next post.

if you have a problem with what's written on ATL, shut up and start your own blog. everyone will stop reading ATL and read yours.

morons.

elie/ATL - thanks for the info

Dear NY Associates:

I am so sorry for all of the difficulty and sadness my firm has caused you and your families. As usual, I allowed my greed, ego and small penis interfere with my judgment.
It is my sincere hope that law students around the country will not look negatively upon Cravath because I was too cheap to see past my own need to overcompensate.
And I know, Bob Joffe would never have needed to demonstrate his manhood in such a fashion. Then again, I am living off the good will and talent he fostered, so this is to be expected from a second rate intellect and manager such as myself.
So again, I apologize and sincerely hope that S&C comes through for the sake of other NY associates who deserve better than my pitiful excuse for leadership.

Sincerely
Evan Chesler

Elie, they could also be saying (D) Skadden is paying above-market compensation this year. Defining Skadden as market and lambasting all other firms as failing to meet that standard distracts from failures to meet the real market amount (such as through imposition of a 2000 hour billable minimum).

Elie, they could also be saying (D) Skadden is paying above-market compensation this year. Defining Skadden as market and lambasting all other firms as failing to meet that standard distracts from failures to meet the real market amount (such as through imposition of a 2000 hour billable minimum).

Celui qui vend aujourd'hui LeBoeuf, demain aura un oeuf.

elie, this skadden trolling is getting really old. you know they wouldn't be paying "market" if they had released their bonus memo after cravath. oh, whoops, i mean "half-skadden" hahaha...i second the comment from another post, about how you're like al bundy with his 4 touchdowns in one game, the way you hang onto this joke like it's the wittiest thing you've ever thought of (which it very well might be) and keep trotting it out for approval. also, i don't know if "now other firms are crashing through like there's a sale at WalMart" is supposed to refer to the incident last week that resulted in a DEATH BY TRAMPLING, but if so, poor taste. might is well say "now other firms are crashing through like half-digested bearclaws through elie's cavernous gullet"

Elie, your reasoning is total bullshit, because if the highest bonus = "market rate" then Wachtell's 100% bonus would have always had been the "market rate." Why don't you refer to Skadden as "Quarter-Wachtell" for not following the "market rate"?
Why don't you refer to the bonuses of 2007 as "Half-Wachtell" since they did not match the 2007 "market rate" as set by Wachtell?

The firms, if they had promised anything, promised to pay the market rate, which is defined by what the majority of the peer firms (the "market") pay. The market is paying $17.5k for class of 2007. Skadden paying more does not turn its scale into the market rate, no more than Wachtell's bonus policy does.

Right on, 55.

Elie (44) -

Thanks for clarifying.

How does this comport with Wachtell's compensation, which in recent memory has always been above the "market rate?" The market seems to be settling at the $17,500 scale this year, which would also put Skadden above the market rate.

It seems a little disingenuous to call last year's scale the "market rate" while ignoring Wachtell's higher comp if you're not going to ignore Skadden's higher comp this year.

Enough already, Evan. Stop your groveling.

I screwed 49.

Damn you CravaTTTh!

34 NAILED IT WITH PANACHE.

SkaddenDC will be playing the part of Tiny Tim in this year's BigLaw production of A Christmas Carol; struck lame with SuperAids, hobbling towards the infirmary/bankruptcy court with one dismal profits report, two failing kidneys, and a bad case of The Gay.

Elie, you are my hero. Keep up the good work.

I nailed Evan Chesler in a room at the Chelsea Hotel, old school.

65

WLRK is nothing like the other firms in the V20; Skadden is.

Wow, so at least three people found the gaping logical hole in Elie's reasoning within minutes of his post. If "top of the market" = "market rate" then Wachtell, not Skadden, is the market rate.

This is the reason why Harvard Law should not continue to embarrass itself by admitting people who scored 155 on the LSAT.

I propose that Dewey be named "Half-Orrick."

While Cravath halved Skadden's bonuses it did not impose an hourly minimum.

However, with Dewey's minimum hours, an Orrick associate will double Dewey's bonus.

Cravath = Half-Skadden
Dewey = Half-Orrick

How does this effect Dewey's sweet sweet offices in the NYC?

Texas Big

D&L let the associates know the 2000 hours mark way back in Aprilish. They're mostly pretty good with transparency about that stuff. and one area where they're pretty good about *not* being transparent is that the 2k hours is, in most years, a motivator rather than a hard cutoff. the CW is that people who've worked really hard to get their 1900 hours, and who have given up weekends and holidays, will still get their bonuses if they just do a little extra campaigning in their department. That may be different, this year, of course...

59 misses howard

WKRP in Cincinnati is hiring.

I am nailing 68's mom.

D&L let the associates know the 2000 hours mark way back in Aprilish. They're mostly pretty good with transparency about that stuff. and one area where they're pretty good about *not* being transparent is that the 2k hours is, in most years, a motivator rather than a hard cutoff. the CW is that people who've worked really hard to get their 1900 hours, and who have given up weekends and holidays, will still get their bonuses if they just do a little extra campaigning in their department. That may be different, this year, of course...

59 misses howard

61 -- doesn't everyone agree that Wachtell is the "best" firm out there? Are there associates out there who expected to get paid what people at Wachtell make, only to be sorely disappointed the first time they came across easily accessible information about compensation at top law firms?

If firms like Cravath and STB just want to cede the argument and stipulate that Skadden is "better than" they are -- just like firms have been genuflecting to Wachtell over the years -- that's all fine. But they shouldn't pretend that they pay top market compensation when clearly they don't or won't the minute times get tough.

Times are tough all around, but when I go to Peter Luger's I don't expect to be served a Whopper. If that ever happened, I'd take my business to Sparks.
--Elie

59, you are hilarious!

what's 1/2 of half-skadden, divided by half mutliplied by pie?

answer = market rate

Awesome... half bonus if you hit 2,000 hours which about 20 percent of associates firmwide will probably hit. Also awesome is that some snot nosed 1st year who probably is still figuring out how to run a redline and how to attach documents to an e-mail before sending it and who billed 1100 for the year is making $17,500 while a fifth or sixth year who billed 1700 total hours is getting ZERO. Way to reward those who have made "significant contributions" to the firm. Great policy, hopefully all remaining firms follow this model.

Where's LeBoeuf?

1. Elie's first line is a true gem.
2. Skadden isn't a boutique; it's a huge firm with lots of domestic offices with tons of associates. They are market.
3. D&L's 2000 minimum in conjunction with the half bonus is downright pathetic. D&L apparently can't pay their partners and now won't be paying their associates either (no work, no bonuses).
4. I don't remember how you vote on Vault, but I will definitely vote Cravath low.

I thought Wachtell merged with Locke Lord.

MysTTTal, please proofread before you post.

Thread on xoxohth "BREAKING: S&C will MATCH SKADDEN BONUS!!!!"

84 - Even if you classify WLRK as a "boutique", Kirkland owns Skadden and the rest of the "non-market" firms in bonus comp every year.

Thread on xoxohth "BREAKING: S&C will MATCH SKADDEN BONUS!!!!"

20 - I think a lot of people at Milbank are wondering what's going to happen. Not fair to assume 17 was fired. Just seems the firm is not doing so well regardless of some of the higher profile clients (e.g., Lehman OCC).

I billed 12 hours in November. Can anyone on here top that (and by top, I mean have lower hours)??

jwho cares about whether the "B" in "LeBouef" is capitalized or whatever the hell else elie writes?? what's wrong with you people? this is exactly why i hate all of my co-workers and this profession.

Elie - another major problem is that you assume Skadden is paying its associates more because it values its associates more than other firms. I think the far more likely reason Skadden is paying more is because they assumed this year's market rate was going to be the same as last year's minus the special bonus. My guess is that if Skadden was the fifth out of the gate, as opposed to the first, they would still be paying the same as every other firm. For all we know, the reason Skadden was the first out of the gate is because they wanted set the rate early to preclude special bonuses from being paid.

As for expectations, it is unreasonable to expect to continue to receive boom-time bonuses during a recession. Firms significantly scaled back bonuses during the last recession, just as they are scaling back bonuses during this recession. I don’t know why you would expect them to do otherwise.

I think Elie's properly answered all you lovers of half-skadden. Can you all please shut up now? Why don't you start a lovers of half-skadden website and leave this one?

who's howard?

who cares about whether the "B" in "LeBouef" is capitalized or whatever the hell else elie writes?? what's wrong with you people? this is exactly why i hate all of my co-workers and this profession.

Why are people at Milbank tweaking out so much? How slow are things over there?

I did not bill a single client hour in July.

Mieux vaut maintenant un œuf que dans le temps LeBœuf.

93,
You think Skadden was unaware of the risk that other firms would announce lower bonus levels? Did ANYONE think special bonuses were possible this year prior to the first announcement? While you may be right that Skadden might pay less if they didn't announce first, they wanted to announce first. They are paying bonuses they can afford. A lot of other firms with hours requirements COULD afford to pay Skadden bonuses, but they're using CSM and its followers as a reason not to (and who could blame them?).

Firms are paying less because things are obviously not going as well as they were last year and the outlook for 2009 isn't great, not because it would bankrupt them to match Skadden. If they thought they would pay long-tem in losing associates for cheaping out on bonuses this year, they wouldn't. But right now, all of the firms are falling in line because if they do so, there is no downside to paying the CSM bonus, other than that Skadden might come off looking a little better. What's important is that unless other firms start matching Skadden, they won't look worse.

81 -

.5 * S / .5 * π = π * Skadden = market?

Or maybe you meant

(.5 * S) / (.5 * π) = Skadden / π = roughly 0.3183 * Skadden = market?

How is Milbank's bankruptcy holding up after losing their star partners?

hey elie, how about a post on the situation at milbank sometime soon? the comment chatter should be addressed one way or the other.

Breaking news:

Skadden realizing they overpaid just announced they are moving to Half-Skadden bonuses!

Memo to follow.

Milbank didn't lose their star bk partner. Luc was demoted from practice head years ago due to a lack of interpersonal skills. The return of Paul Aronzon more than makes up for the loss of Luc.

Luc interviewed me on my Milbank callback, and even though I liked alot of the other partners I met... that was all I needed to run to a peer firm.

I just sucked myself off and gave myself a bonus. Learn to adapt people.

Bevan Chisler

#47 - "senior asociates are totally fucked" :

Unless they can make this much money (including last year's 100k+ bonus) somewhere else, they aren't fucked - so long as they don't lose their jobs. Look around: partners are making less than last year. This is true also for commercial and investment bankers, real estate brokers and agents, and probably just about all of YOUR clients - including those who are lucky if they still have a job. Just pray that you will not be among the estimated 200,000 to 250,000 in New York who will lose their jobs, and thank your God that you now have a job - unlike the 1,000" Biglaw associates who have been fired or had their firms dissolve this year..

So, why do senior associates have such a sense of entitlement? You still have jobs, your starting salary was higher than any other group in the nation, and you make more that 99.9% of wage earners.

Next year, when the Obama tax changes and state income tax increases come into play, you will be fucked - as will be all. Then you can complain, but only if you voted for McCain.

Be grateful for what you have, rather than envious of those who have more.

.

I don't see what the big deal is (even after putting aside my disbelief at people complaining about five figure bonuses). If Skadden ends up paying above CSM et al, it may get a boost in recruitment in coming years (and possibly increased associate loyalty and morale this year). If it doesn't get that boost, then the partners lose some cash, but still probably less then they have put on the line at a blackjack table. If a few other major firms match Skadden, then that group of firms (including Skadden) will still look better than CSM et al in terms of pay. The only way Skadden really loses here is if they are putting up cash they don't have, but I doubt that is the case.

Is it ok to give my secretary an envelope full of semen for her bonus?

#47 - "senior asociates are totally fucked" :

Unless they can make this much money (including last year's 100k+ bonus) somewhere else, they aren't fucked - so long as they don't lose their jobs. Look around: partners are making less than last year. This is true also for commercial and investment bankers, real estate brokers and agents, and probably just about all of YOUR clients - including those who are lucky if they still have a job. Just pray that you will not be among the estimated 200,000 to 250,000 in New York who will lose their jobs, and thank your God that you now have a job - unlike the 1,000" Biglaw associates who have been fired or had their firms dissolve this year..

So, why do senior associates have such a sense of entitlement? You still have jobs, your starting salary was higher than any other group in the nation, and you make more that 99.9% of wage earners.

Next year, when the Obama tax changes and state income tax increases come into play, you will be fucked - as will be all. Then you can complain, but only if you voted for McCain.

Be grateful for what you have, rather than envious of those who have more.

.

How's this for a nostalgic moment? This is a comment from a post November 1, 2007. This is the list of firms that had not yet matched the "full + special" at that point. So the blank spaces tell us that as of Nov 1, 2007, DPW, CSM, PW, Debevoise, and a few others were paying the equivalent of essentially (1.5)(Skadden) in this year's currency.

Posted by guest | Permalink
Thursday, November 1, 2007 8:38 PM

Vault Based List of Shame -

(Wachtell ommitted because, come on, seriously, they got more than this in their mid-year bonus)

Vault Rank / Firm / 2005 RPL (if known)
1
2
3 Sullivan & Cromwell LLP / $1,627,000
4 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom / $997,000
5
6
7 Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton LLP / $913,000
8 Latham & Watkins LLP / $875,000
9 Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP / $954,000
10 Covington & Burling LLP / $774,000
11 Kirkland & Ellis LLP / $987,000
12
13
14 Shearman & Sterling LLP / $992,000
15 Wilmer Cutler / 846,000
16 Williams & Connolly LLP /
17 Sidley Austin LLP / $774,000
18 Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP / $1,011,000
19 O'Melveny & Myers LLP / $828,000
20 White & Case LLP / $600,000
21 Arnold & Porter LLP / $816,000
22 Jones Day / 602,000
23 Morrison & Foerster LLP / $735,000
24
25 Clifford Chance LLP /
26 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft / $940,000
27 Hogan & Hartson LLP / $735,000
28 Mayer, Brown, Rowe & Maw LLP / $750,000
29 Fried, Frank, / $891,000
30 Ropes & Gray LLP / 841,000
31 Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker / $766,000
32 Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP / $859,000
33 Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld LLP / $779,000
34 Winston & Strawn LLP / $718,000
35 Dewey Ballantine LLP / $782,000
36 Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati / $752,000
37 Linklaters /
38 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe / 767,000
39 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer LLP /
40 Proskauer Rose LLP / $745,000

100 - you are absolutely right. All I'm saying is that it is wrong for Ellie to assume that Skadden is so benevolent. Someone has to go first every year. Clearly Skadden wanted to go first this year. We can't know the reason why, but my guess is they went first to say they "set the market" this year. Their bonus levels are what many people were expecting, although it was probably silly to expect these levels.

Call me a pessimist, but I think Ellie is naïve for thinking Skadden is paying more because it values its associates more. My guess is that they went first wanting to say they “set the market,” and ended up getting screwed when they found out Skadden doesn’t set anything. Now they are probably kicking themselves for paying much higher bonuses than they needed to pay. None of this changes the fact that this is a good year to be a Skadden associate, but I don’t think law students can assume from this one possible fluke that Skadden will continue to pay above-market bonuses.

60 - Great Married with Children reference.

Elie, stop writing that Skadden is "market." Skadden is NOT market; Cravath set market and now all other firms are falling in line. Skadden is the outlier; same way WLRK has been the OUTLIER and not MARKET in recent years.

S&C just announced bonuses: Skadden + plus special bonus!!

S&C just announced bonuses: Skadden + plus special bonus!!

S&C just announced bonuses: Skadden + plus special bonus!!

S&C just announced bonuses: Skadden + plus special bonus!!

lol this is making the rounds at UVA:
http://charlottesville.craigslist.org/cas/942106801.html

Elie -don't take your business to Sparks! If not Luger's, then Wolfgang's is the place to be...

Why do african black people like to carry guns?

105 has to be Milbank HR or something. Seriously - no associates have thought about Paul Aronzon and wouldn't be referencing him as a savior.

Knock it off, 116-119.

To all of those people who are saying "if Skadden had announced later, they'd be paying the 17.5 K bonuses this year too..." ---- Cravath went 2nd, and yet they did not match the first announcement by Skadden. If Cravath didn't follow the first announcer, what makes you think that Skadden would follow others who announced before them?

113,
100 here. I absolutely agree that Skadden isn't doing this because they value their associates more. Hell, there was no "more" when they announced. Skadden's bonus is the least tainted example of how much a biglaw firm actually values its associates. They adjusted for the bad year and paid what they thought was appropriate/necessary. I'm sure it occurred to them that other firms would pay less and they were fine taking a cash hit for the PR/recruiting advantage (which is looking pretty substantial at this point). I also think you're right that this may not be an annual thing for Skadden. They're not Wachtell. But they do pay above market, at least for now, and everyone knows it. Mission accomplished!

It's also hard for me to fault CSM entirely, because they are lockstep and the numbers game is very different for lockstep firms. Even with Skadden's low hours requirement, there are a lot of Skadden associates that aren't getting bonuses. It's the non-lockstep firms that match CSM that are really consciously cheaping out here...Dewey likely will just be the first.

And for all of the "greedy bastards!" comments, please understand that if not for Skadden, people would be a lot less pissed. Skadden gave us a looking glass into what the partners are doing. Skadden is not doing THAT much better than everyone else, they just aren't passing a disproportionate share of the hurt to the associates like the other firms are (and especially Dewey, as a non-lockstep firm).

120: haha that is hilarious

125 - good point. What if Skadden had not announced first? Would Cravath and others have gone even lower? Zero?

These comments crack me up. It's amazing how many apologists there are for Cravath et al.

Arguing which bonus scale is market and Skadden's motives are simply distracting from the fact that Cravath and others failed to match Skadden. No one expected them to match Wachtell, but not matching Skadden is a surprising disappointment -- hence the record number of comments on the Cravath story and all of the defensiveness from associates not getting a Skadden-sized bonus this year.

44/Elie - your explanation falls flat. Those firms "promised" to pay top of the market the previous year too.

But they didn't, by your definition.

The "top" was paid by Wachtell, Boies Schiller (due to that one crazy contingent fee case/bonus thingy) and other firms that are more "discretionary" (Kirkland?) in handing out bonuses. This year Skadden appears to be joining them as an outlier (and btw, if they don't go very discretionary on those bonuses via evalutions/hours, you're kidding yourself).

Accordingly, by any rational economic definition, calling them "the market rate" is just silly. The market rate is the "insult" of the half skadden rate, or at least appears to be.

129: i don't get it either.

Some of them are even comparing law firms to banks and real estate funds.

FYI idiots: banks are having a bad year as they post billion dollar losses. Law firms are having a bad year because the partners are taking home $2.2 million rather than $2.6 million.

Why isn't there more outrage about Cravath and others low-balling associates. It seems Stockholm syndrome is setting in.

83

Correction:

Où est LeBoeuf?

Cravath = Plaxico Bonus

Cahill just matched skadden. Cahill to v5!

Cahill just matched skadden. Cahill to v5!

130: Call it what you want, "outlier," "above market," or whatever term you think spins it better -- they all mean your firm is paying you less than you would make at Skadden (or Kirkland, or wherever).

On the hours requirement: if you are worth your salt at all, I'm sure you have billed at least 1,600 hours this year (and since it includes pro bono, you should even in the worst of years). In other words, you could do better at Skadden.

Too soon.

BANG! Another shot to your leg, sucka bitch!

Big Texas Suck Farm

130: Call it what you want, "outlier," "above market," or whatever term you think spins it better -- they all mean your firm is paying you less than you would make at Skadden (or Kirkland, or wherever).

On the hours requirement: if you are worth your salt at all, I'm sure you have billed at least 1,600 hours this year (and since it includes pro bono, you should even in the worst of years). In other words, you could do better at Skadden.

133- 83 here. Photograph half my balls.

133- 83 here. Photograph half my balls.

ELIE,

SKADDEN IS NOT ALONE AT THE TOP OF THE MARKET. ORRICK AND MOFO ARE ALSO MUCH HIGHER THAN THE 2ND TIER NYC SHOPS LIKE CRAVATH, DEWEY, DAVIS POLK, CLEARY. TALKING LIKE IT IS JUST SKADDEN UP THERE GIVES COVER TO THESE CHEAP 2ND TIER BASTARDS.

Dear ATL Loser (aka 34 and 67),

When you actually graduate from law school and finally find a job, then maybe you can comment about other firms. Until then, better hit the books or you'll never get over Skadden DC's rejection.

Skadden DC Associate

PS - I'll be rolling around in my full, above-market bonus this holiday season. What will you be doing (aside from posting false rumors about Skadden DC on every ATL story, of course)?

Can anyone else confirm re the Cahill bonuses?
Elie, do you have any memos about it?

45 - Baker & McKenzie has a 2000 minmium and has already told its NY associates that it will pay last years bonus amounts as not that many associates have met 2000. Billable year ended October 31 for Baker.

It doesn't happen often, but Elie is right this time.

The persistence in defining the market level bonus by the one outlier (Skadden) in the market is more propoganda than it is reporting or even effective advocacy. With several major firms matching the Cravath bonus, even the most optimistic associate doesn't believe that the Skadden bonus defines the market.

Maybe the Skadden bonus defines "top of the market," so firms can't claim to pay "top of the market" or whatever you want to call it. But it's all relative. Even the Cravath bonuses likely surpass the bonuses offered at smaller, regional firms, and, therefore, can probably still be considered top of the market even if not the pinnacle or whatever lame semantic standard you want to hold everyone to.

144 - Mom, is that you? What are we having for dinner?

If someone can bill 2000 hours in this economy doesn't he deserve to get the full market bonus (Skadden level)? It is ridiculous that associates at Dewey have to generate as much profit for the partners as they did last year, but only to get 1/2 as much bonus.

debevoise just announced!!! skadden bonus!!!

FIRSTIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Milbank just announced bonuses: $25 gift cards to Grey's Papaya.

Womble Carlyle just matched Skadden!!!

Womble confirmed!

Dunder Mifflin bonus just announced! Ten Schrute bucks! Memo to follow.

148: Are you getting a smaller bonus than Skadden? That's what I thought. STFU.

Semantics are irrelevant here. The point is that severl firms that traditional keep pace with Skadden aren't this year. Why defend them by some strange argument over semantics? The simple truth is they did not match Skadden, which everyone expected them to do. Stop making excuses for them.

'Nuff said.

149 - yes, but you know I prefer you to call me your sister-in-law as long as I'm still married to your brother.

what's a womble? australian rodent?

S&C matches Skadden.

Haven't heard it yet, 160.

120 - it's customary to warn people when something's not safe for work. i don't need your help to get fired.

Ten Schrute bucks buys one beet or a wedgie. You pick.

~A Dunder Mifflin "partner"

162 --

A better policy would be not to click on strange links, even without "guarantees" that this is or is not NSFW.

elie = moron who got fired from a "half-skadden" firm and is bitter

164 -what's so strange about a craigslist link? that's where i bought my coffee table.
- 162

162 -- unbunch those panties!

LYLAS,
120

Just wanted to correct a few misperceptions some posters seem to have:

1. Dewey and LeBoeuf have always had hours requirements. It was announced in April of this year that the merged firm would continue that policy.

2. Accountable and pro bono hours count towards the 2000 hour requirement. They're pretty easy to come by, and include things like writing articles, doing pitches, participating in firm-sponsored committees and even -- although a cap does apply -- mentoring and recruiting (there's no cap at all on pro bono hours). I imagine the firm's reasoning is that it wants its associates actually doing stuff which makes them better lawyers or brings in business (which one might argue also makes them better lawyers) even when the billable work isn't there.

3. Because they know about the hours requirement, associates tailor their behavior accordingly. As a result, participation in pro bono and other accountable activites is really widespread (especially this year). Almost everyone I know at DL is on pace to make that requirement once the total number of hours are tallied up, and I'd guess the number of associates who do qualify will be around 85-90 percent. As for the rest, they had the same opportunity.

4. Finally, those people who do bill more hours -- 2200 and up -- get an additional bonus recognizing the additional work they've done and the additional money they've brought in. This stands in sharp contrast to a shop like, say, Cravath, where a 3L billing 1600 and another billing 2600 will make the exact same amount of bonus money.

Seems all right, even though I can think of a lot of better ways to allocate bonuses.

Breaking news - we landed on the moon.

We have a strange situation here. Skadden is a large, diversified firm that isn't doing that poorly in this market. Cravath, while more prestigious, is more of a boutique whose clients are made up almost solely of banks that are either bleeding money or no longer exist.

Other firms looked at this and said "we only need to match Cravath, because they are the most prestigious shop in town" when in reality CSM had a much more vulnerable market position.

This just goes to show what happens when you value "prestige" over something more tangible (you get burned).

44 nailed it!!! Lat should make that guy EIC instead of MysTTTal.

Milbank just announced...matched Cravath and the lot.

Milbank memo:

MEMORANDUM TO ASSOCIATES

Classes 2008 – 2000

The Firm is pleased to announce that we will be paying year-end bonuses to associates in the classes of 2008 – 2000. Bonuses will be paid to associates in good standing and will be subject to the usual pro-rations for 2008 start dates, part-time schedules and unpaid leaves of absence. Bonuses will be paid on or before January 15, 2009.

The bonus amounts for 2008 are:

Class of 2008 $17,500
Class of 2007 $17,500
Class of 2006 $20,000
Class of 2005 $22,500
Class of 2004 $25,000
Class of 2003 $27,500
Class of 2002 $30,000
Class of 2001 $32,500
Class of 2000 $32,500

Bonuses for specials will be determined on an individual basis and communicated separately.

On behalf of the Firm, we thank you for your many efforts in this challenging business environment. Your commitment and dedication, excellent client service, and contributions to mentoring, recruiting, diversity and pro bono are greatly appreciated.

The Executive Committee

Milbank

Come on S&C and Weil. Sitting on the sidelines is going to hurt the associates at the other V-25 firms who could go Skadden route, but want to go Cravath b/c everyone else is doing it.

If S&C and Weil come out in a week or two and match Skadden I'm going to be pissed. I think that is what they are setting up to do after all of the other firms announce they are following Cravath. Maybe they are giving a wink-wink to other firms saying you guys might want to announce this week before we do.

They will also reap greater benefits in recruiting if they do this (by letting as many firms follow Cravath as possible before announcing they are matching Skadden). Smart play, but hurts the rest of us whose firms haven't announced yet. Who knows, maybe they will follow Cravath too, but I think it has been too long for these two firms to have been sitting on the sidelines.

1. Skadden is "top of the market." for all firms paying lockstep bonuses. Hours based bonus firms obviously don't count because they pay out to lesser numbers of associates.

2. To those who suggest that Skaddens "1600 hour" rule makes them an hour-based bonus instead of lock-step, you're dreaming. All lock-step firms award bonuses to those who are in "good standing." Skadden's 1600 hour rule is just a fast and dirty means of calculating that. If you billed less (you still get a half-bonus) but you're not in good standing. Also, Skadden allows UNLIMITED pro bono hours to count towards that 1600 limit. You could have effectivley 0 billable hours and still get a full bonus.

First?

56 - LOLROTFPMP

All I can think about is how no one is going to be able to make their hours and get bonuses for 2009.

168-

Thanks for the info. It does make Dewey look better.

third??

122- same reason why bitter redneck whites do.

What kind of troll are you?
http://www.bitterlawyer.com/index.php/columns_detail_comment/seven_species_of_legal_website_trolls/?cat_id=13

This is another sign that Dewey can't weather this storm. The firm is a sinking ship, I suggest you jump off as soon as possible.

183-

what firm is not?

I'm kinda new to this whole obsessive bonus watching thing, but it seems weird to me that EVERY firm has the exact same bonus structure - I don't remember that this was the case in years past.

175 hits the nail on the head.

PS - MysTTTal.

all associates are over paid. you are a bunch of crying babies. GREED !!!!!!

157-In case you didn't notice, this post begins with the question, " ...why would you pay market rate?" This is more than mere semantics, it is mischaracterization and faux outrage to pander to the audience of this blog. It's condescending and annoying. Most of us know that 90% of the v20 are going to adopt the same bonus structure -- the Cravath bonus structure -- and that is the market rate. Arguing that structure is bad or wrong in light of rising PPP is reasonable and may be constructive, but arguing that it is not the "market rate" is just stupid. It's like trying to prove that a wall isn't there by repeatedly banging your head against it.