first?

Jones Day = safety school for gunners

FIRST BITCHES!!!!!

first?

Merry Christmas!

At least now Jones Day can claim superiority to Latham. Although who can't these days, eh?

What is Jones Day? Is that a law firm, or is it like a Harry Norman real estate type thing...

This post applies to JD Chicago and JD NY only.

JD DC, like last year, gives no bonus or pseudo-bonus. Hooray for arbitrary and unfair distinctions between the offices of One Firm, Worldwide (TM)

FIRST BITCHES!!!!!

Class of 2007 JD associate here. Had great reviews but got nothing over market. WTF? Any class of 2007 JDers get an extra increase to their base salary?

JD>>>>>>Latham

and has nicer people too

11: What office?

11 - What office are you in? It seems that offices largely determine what *bump* you got...

How can a compensation plan like this not produce frustration and suspicion amongst associates? This seems like a very bad idea, and indicative of their office culture.

15 - It does product frustration and suspicion. Not to mention paranoia.

I thought JonesDay was a Catholic cult.

This is no "bonus" - a bonus is a lump-sum payment at the end of a year. Under this scheme, JD gets to keep some of the time value of the money they might have otherwise paid at the end of the year (again, what might have been a real "bonus").

Keep them isolated. Keep them guessing.

15: Not to mention that it appears that a 2006 in Chicago will get maybe $30k more in total compensation than a 2006 in DC, for no reason other than the head of JD Chicago apparently believes in bonuses and the JD Washington head apparently doesn't.

JD may have followed Cravath in NY or Chicago but it did not even come close in any of its other major offices.

Any bumps were marginal and no where near bonus level. JD's ability to F*** over associates at every given opportunity shines through once again.

Does the increased salary structure mean JD associates receive more net "bonus" money because of the difference in tax rates?

Any Class of 2007 Associates in NY or Chi get an extra salary bump?

But if the associates know what everyone else's bonus is, how can we screw them out of money???

Guys from my high school used to create compensation structures which purposefully minimized access to information, so that people would be easier to intimidate and control. It was no big deal.

Hi, please forgive the double post (I posted this on a different thread, but since this thread is exclusively about Jonesday, I thought I would try here too). Basically, I'm a 2L at Cleveland State, and I'm trying to decide whether to accept my offer at Jonesday. I still haven't decided which firm to work for because the firms wanted to "call me back" to their offices to meet everyone who I would be working with, and I wanted to wait until after the semester was over to make this big decision, so now my project during winter break is to go on these "callbacks" and meet everybody and decide which firm I want to work for. What do people *really* think of Jonesday?

Jones Day is in many ways similar to Baker McKenzie.

Ok everyone, altogether now... it is "all together..." MysTTTal.

Jones Day is a joke. Everyone in the know and who frequent the same circles considers JD a laughing stock of the industry. Why are we even talking about them?

V&E 4y

I suspect we will get some more concrete and useful information/approx. numbers once people go home and can post in using their own internet connection.

nice try 26

26 - JonesDay blows. Its the Walmart of law.

I would rather work at Latham even after they shit all over their associates.

Thankfully, I work at a better place than either of these TTTs.

Anyone know whether it's true that Chicago and NY get bonuses, but DC doesnt? If that's true, does DC have recruiting issues? Seems like there's no reason whatsoever to choose JD DC over JD Chicago. NY I get, but DC has to be more expensive to live in than Chicago, yet Chicago gets paid more. WTF?

22 - please tell me you are kidding. Bonuses are not taxed differently than any other ordinary income, but are merely withheld at a slightly higher rate (which is reconciled when you file your return).

26- Take the offer. No offense, but I didn't even know Cleveland State was a school, let alone that there was a law school. That being said, if you have an offer from Jones Day, take it. I think it will be difficult for you to find a gig outside of Cleveland, and definitely outside of Ohio. Unless you are interviewing at other large firm branch offices in Cleveland (of which none others come to mind), I would go for it, and worry about these types of details after you get established.

L.A. BigLaw

Prohibiting discussion of pay amongst employees is a per se violation of the National Labor Relations Act.

26, Jones Day has a rep with clients for being less expensive but w/ the same quality product as the other V20 firms.

And yes, this sort of structure does save the associates some tax dollars. It seems like a win-win set up for both the associates and partners. Seems much more forward-thinking than other firms.

First off, 35 -- you're clearly one of the commenters who consistently posts "Penn and Penn State are not the same school" (troll bait much?). As for 26, a nice try, but a bit too much with the "call me back" line. You did get 35, tho...

26 = JD partner

37 = JD partner

26 - I lateralled to JD from a V5 firm. No regrets at all. You do great work surrounded by great people.

Another Chicago JD associate here. Good reviews, about 2100 hours billed, and I got market salary. No "bump" that you all speak of. Not sure what gives, but I am starting to not appreciate having the wool pulled over my eyes and being in the dark. At least tell me I didn't get a bonus because I didn't bill enough or because you don't like me (despite good reviews). Just give me some sort of rationale.

22 = future tax attorney -> Harvard LLM perhaps

41 = Marc Dreier

Did Johny Cochrane work at Jones Dei?

JD Associates = mushrooms (kept in dark, fed bullshit)

Ditto to 35, as a transplant to Cleveland from a larger city, I can tell you, there is not way a CSU degree gets you anywhere out of the state and probably not out of Cleveland (it wouldn't be that easy to go to Columbus or Cinci since their local schools are better). Take Jones Day Cleveland and ride the heck out of it until you are a 5th year or something. CSU is very local; favored to some extent in Cleveland especially if you have local ties, but elsewhere it's pretty much useless without really good connection.

36: Thanks for regurgitating what you just typed up on your labor law final. You should probably go back and re-read your horn book. NLRA protects organized labor i.e. labor that voted for unionization. It has no bearing upon law firms and partnerships. Associates are employees at will, and they can fire your ass for whatever reason they want. So why don't you go tell everyone what your bonus is and then tell all the partners at JD that they can't fire you. Let us know how it goes, and then Count Layoffula can add one, one more to the lay off count.

Hi, I attend law school at Cleveland State, a prestigious law school in Cleveland, Ohio. Before I go on my call me back interviews, what do people *really* think of Cleveland State?

37=JD partner

Jones Day = Six Flags over Hong Kong

sorry about your tiny pink law firms.

50-
Jonesday loves Cleveland State, so that's proof that it's a good school.

52=52

Elie - Thanks for FINALLY creating a JD thread. The ATL readers OWN you. You post what we want. Dance, monkey, dance.

55=racist

wait, 49, question- I've had trouble scheduling the call-back (the recruiting people haven't been getting back to me) - are they on vacation or soemthing?

JD is a very reputable firm. Anyone who says it's TTT is a snob. I work at a V15 firm. TAKE THE OFFER! I have never heard of Cleveland State.

48,
The NLRA also provides certain protections to non-unionized workers. You should have taken labor law.

This one time, I was studying for a real estate finance final in two days, and decided to pull an all nighter. I had 6 red bulls inside of an hour. Suddenly, I didn't care about the law, and decided to wake my roommate up to see if he wanted to wrestle or something. He threw his torts book at me, which I adroitly dodged. I went outside and just sort of started walking around the quad. The next morning, I woke up at Jones Day NY (completely alone...?). I decided not to interview there.

If I were you, I'd be worried about the lack of transparency in financial matters in JD. For all you know, JD could be a Ponzi scheme.

56=minority

58-
If you lived in Cleveland you would've heard of it, duh. That's where Jonesday recruits, dumbass.

61 nailed it.

59: associates are still employees at will. can't wait for them to fire your ass and you can try to get a job with a degree from cleveland state.

This one time, I was studying for a real estate finance final in two days, and decided to pull an all nighter. I had 6 red bulls inside of an hour. Suddenly, I didn't care about the law, and decided to wake my roommate up to see if he wanted to wrestle or something. He threw his torts book at me, which I adroitly dodged. I went outside and just sort of started walking around the quad. The next morning, I woke up at Jones Day NY (completely alone...?). I decided not to interview there.

This one time, I was studying for a real estate finance final in two days, and decided to pull an all nighter. I had 6 red bulls inside of an hour. Suddenly, I didn't care about the law, and decided to wake my roommate up to see if he wanted to wrestle or something. He threw his torts book at me, which I adroitly dodged. I went outside and just sort of started walking around the quad. The next morning, I woke up at Jones Day NY (completely alone...?). I decided not to interview there.

66,

Your story is disturbing yet oddly hypnotic. Have you considered a career in meta-fiction?

61 = learned phrase "Ponzi Scheme" in the last few days.

Does JD actually recruit people from Cleveland State? No wonder they suck.

How easy is it to transfer from one JD office to another?

JD may not pay as well (although rumor is that it does compensate the people it values most well), but the people who work there are nice and respectful and at the end of the day that matters a lot more to some than the marginal amount of post-tax dollars one receives at a better paying firm comprised of yellers and people who have no qualms throwing you under the bus.

What bonuses are IP firms like FISH & RICHARDSON and FINNEGAN HENDERSON giving out?

66 = James Joyce

What's up with Mayer Brown bonuses?

I got well above market. Am in IP and quite busy; perhaps that has something to do with it.

71- it's impossible. Sorry, you are stuck in DC.

69

Kind of a shame that with $100K plus in education costs, you don't know something as simple as "Ponzi scheme," until the last few days. You really should sue your educational institution for failure to educate.

But then again, your educational institution can counter with a defense -- you're just too stupid.

If I were the judge, I'd go with the educational institution.

Hint -- being stupid is no way to go through life, son.

70-
Jonesday has about 30 lawyers from Cleveland State, including about 10 partners. So eat it. I go there for free, and got several biglaw offers including Jonesday, Squire Sanders, McDonald Hopkins, and Benesh.
All these firms called me back, I just have to decide which one to work at. So eat it.

For the love of god, can someone please create a thread on Dreier LLP bonuses???? Too little transparency!!!-

Ducktales! A-woo-oo!

79 = eat it McDonalds

Jones Day, the GULC of lawfirms
(a massive TTT factory of dubious quality and some former prestige that accepts anything that can drag itself across the threshold under its own locomotion)

JD discriminates in a racist kind of way.

65, see Beth Israel Hospital v. NLRB, 437 U.S. 483 (1978).
Pwned!

I'd rather be working at Thatcher Profitt than JD

49,

I don't think I've ever read a post on ATL that has made someone look like a bigger douche bag than yours.

Kindly refrain from posting here ever again.

Thanks,
Management

What, someone is citing actual cases? Stop it. Stop. God.

79- I''ve Never heard of McDonald Hopkins or Benesh. Don't worry though, never heard of your school either.

I have heard of Squire Sanders. Aren't they the TTT crapfest that fired a bunch of people in anticipation of a desparate merger with TTT Seyfarth? If you have callbacks at all of them, thank your lucky stars you even got a law firm interview coming from a school that has the word "Cleveland" in it.

Oh, and don't forget, you live in frickin Cleveland, Ohio. How have you not jumped off of a bridge yet?

77: not in D.C., in law school but trying to figure out what to do being stuck in D.C.

Cleveland rocks! Cleveland rocks! Cleveland rocks! Cleeeveland roooocks!

89-
seriously, stop being a player hater. McDonald Hopkins and Benesh are fine regional blglaw firms. Cleveland State is just fine for getting biglaw offers in Cleveland. My dream job is to do medical malpractice law - I really want to help people who have been maimed or killed because of doctor's negligence. And plenty of firms that do that type of law recruit at my school, including Jonesday and Benesh.

What is a Squire Sanders, McDonald Hopkins, and Benesh?

79- going to have to call bull shit. I am from Cleveland (and trust me, I left). However, I do have a few friends that are partners at Squire, and I know for a fact that they are not hiring any summers this year because they are in financial trouble. Assuming you actually have an offer from Jones Day I would jump on it an hope that none of the partners notice that you went to Cleveland State.

It's time to leave Jones Day

1)You are loading up on Alpo at the grocery store and you do not own a dog.

2)Your cocktail of choice has become a bottle of Scope.

3) You are thinking about increasing the size of your living room by means of removing the steering wheel.

4) You are actually glad to get late payment notices from your creditors because they make good fuel for the fire you have going in your garbage can.

92,

STFU and go chase your ambulance!

-Not 89

92

You may not find your chosen field of practice to be remunerative after Obama gives us all free medical care. He'll counterbalance that by giving doctors immunity from lawsuits.

Sucks to be you.

94-don't know what you're talking about re: Squire. I got my offer and they called me back and everything. I just haven't gone into the office to meet with them yet. You've gotten me seriously worried though - I guess I should call the recruiting girl right after x-mass

Ex JDer and currently 5y at a mid-sized firm in DC + Case Western grad and I am shocked (SHOCKED!) that JD is now recruiting at Cleveland State's 4th tier paralegal academy (wait, that dings my current excellent paralegal.)

I call bullshit on every single poster here who claims to be from Cleveland State Law School. I grew up in Cleveland and still have a lot of friends there -- every single person I know who went to "the law school associated with Cleveland State" calls it Cleveland Marshall Law School -- NO ONE calls it "Cleveland State" (one reason is because the undergrad is so shitty).

99-
What part of "30 JD Cleveland State alumni" don't you understand? When you are a TTT firm, you recruit at TTT schools, including CASE WESTERN. Shit-ass.

48,

That was hysterical. You know nothing, but I admire your confidence.

Ex JDer and currently 5y at a mid-sized firm in DC + Case Western grad and I am shocked (SHOCKED!) that JD is now recruiting at Cleveland State's 4th tier paralegal academy (wait, that dings my current excellent paralegal.)

I am nailing a macaca right now.

100-
I only called it "Cleveland State" so that people on this board would recognize it. If I said "Cleveland Marshall School of Law" (or CleMarsh, as we like to call it), all these New York assholes woudl be like, "what the hell is he talking about," plus when they go on the JD website they wouldn't be able to find any "CleMarsh" alums. So Cleveland State is the preferred nomenclature.

Ex JDN&Wer, current 5y in DC + Case Western SOL grad and I am shocked (SHOCKED!) that JD is now recruiting at Cleveland State's 4th tier paralegal academy. (wait, that dings my current excellent paralegal.) Oh, the horror!

Ex-JDer here, and actually was curious to hear about the new bonuses, though in typical JD fashion, they've managed to squelch any compensation talk.

That said, I had a great experience at JD (that looks 100x better from the windows of the higher-Vault-ranked firm where I currently work). People bitch about stupid stuff like bonuses, but don't appreciate what a great place it is to work.

--not a partner, not JD recruiting, etc. Just a happy former JDer who's taking a full week off starting tomorrow for the first time since law school.

105 - I've even heard people call it "Marshall."

Know what? You went there--either because you forgot to take half of the LSAT or you got a free ride--own up to it.

102: you got me (48), but I am sick of stupid law students always thinking that they can sue a firm. Give me a break (see al the other posts regarding bonuses and anti-trust law). I just need them to stop bitching and go back to studying.

If JD is the walmart of law, does that mean it has extremely high volume, and can generally crush its competitors? Cuz, I don't think that's what you mean.

108-
That's CleMarsh, you stupid fuck.

I like to call it "CLE." And I hear that all attorneys go there to get some each year.

This is the most exhausting and worthless set of doucebag-authored posts I've ever read. I am a Chicago 3rd year JD associate and I am very happy with my pay increase, the work I do, the firm I work at, and the people I work with. I was interested in hearing about other JD office compensation, but between the douchenozzles arguing about Board law and the ragging on Cleveland State (who the f*** cares about whether the guy goes to Cleveland State), I can't read it any longer.

Were "extra" pay increases given to Class of 2007 Associates (current 2nd years) in NY or Chi?

113: Bitter CleMarsh alum, or laid off Dreier LLP associate? Discuss.

I worked at JD LA for years, and the place was full of screamers and jerks who would think nothing of throwing you under the bus.

Has anyone realized that Cleveland is not a state?

117 - Good Point. Haha.

I worked at JD LA for years, and the place was full of screamers and jerks who would think nothing of throwing you under the bus.

Please.

Jones Day is a great law firm (any Walmart or Baker McKenzie references either come from complete ignorami, Squire Sanders associates, or Wall Street firm associates that used to be able to hang their hats on the fact that they had prestigious clients and are now just bitter). In my experience, it has also been a great place to work. True, compensation matters are confidential -- just like in 99% of jobs in the world. But what really bugs people about Jones Day is that they won't change just because a bunch of whiners on ATL want things done differently. The firm doesn't cave. If you don't like what you're making, leave. But, believe me, the firm ain't going to change to accomodate you.

How about some of the people from the Texas offices? Any news??

Nor is Ohio really.

I love working at JD (NY) I can't speak for LA, but most people here are really wonderful. As for our integrated bonuses, we know how we compare to market, and I'm going to hazard a guess that most of us are very happy. I shrug at the Wal-mart comments: I'm not sure what prestige gets you but an ego-boost (and it's sad if you need one). And the question of prestige is debatable (Chrysler anyone? Oh right, JD has that.). At JD, we have good pay and good quality of life. Enough said.

I love working at JD (NY) I can't speak for LA, but most people here are really wonderful. As for our integrated bonuses, we know how we compare to market, and I'm going to hazard a guess that most of us are very happy. I shrug at the Wal-mart comments: I'm not sure what prestige gets you but an ego-boost (and it's sad if you need one). And the question of prestige is debatable (Chrysler anyone? Oh right, JD has that.). At JD, we have good pay and good quality of life. Enough said.

1) ditto on the compensation confidentiality is a violation of the NLRA, and I'm actually a labor attorney
2) if you have a job offer and you are a 2L at Cleveland State, take whatever you can and run

bonuses/class raises in ohio are...?

JonesDay - the Chrysler of law firms

124 = JD recruiter

@125: Yes, it's illegal to forbid discussion (e.g., the firm can't fire you for talking about your salary), but JD isn't forcing anyone not to talk. People don't share specifics because we know our firm's policy of confidential compensation (individual/private compensation letters) is a good one.

129=ditto. Sharing specific compensation information almost never ends well. I think most of us at JD know that and agree with the policy.

129, 130: sharing comp info or increasing transparency would only end badly if JD's comp scheme is arbitrary and unfair (which appears to be the case).

JD Partner: Oh, my God. Associate compensation information. We must keep this from the associates, lest they gain literacy and threaten the landed gentry.

JD Associate: What you got there, m'lord?

JD Partner: Nothing! Back to your turnips!

Just so we can know how JD's integrated bonus structure compares, can someone list the market salaries for each associate year? Much appreciated.

All-

For those of you not happy with your JD compensation - or compensation from any firm, for that matter -- leave. That's what I did. Went to a boutique and couldn't be happier. And I make more than I did at JD. This option may not appeal to those of you who masterbate to Vault or other meaningless rankings.

The biglaw associate drovel amuses me. For 10 years I've listened to, "we should be paid market." Guess what? Now the market is going the other way. Don't like it? Leave. There are 100 associates willing to take your place. Get over the fact that unless you have your own client relationships, you are totally expendable and your firms could care less if you leave.

Oh yeah, and all this bullshit about "mass defections" based on compensation policies is a total farce. Has never happened before and will never happen.

124/125: I've heard more good things vs. bad about JD's NY office but seriously, prestige and Chrysler in same sentence? Chrysler as a client would give JD a bump if company had better odds re: surviving as a going concern. Being able to handle its potential Ch11/7 is one-off.

126: NYC would need a 110K bonus to match my col-adjusted base. How wonderful that prestige points are so important to the NYC crowd. Please, stay there as long as you like.

Hey, 9, maybe JD's DC office would consider handing out bonus or pseudo-bonus if associates like you manage to learn the difference between "between" and "among" (hint: clue in preceding sentence).

135 here - earlier post should have been to 123/124. Sorry 125.

JD Associate here. I won't disclose my bumb, but I can assure you that my salary is larger than my friends at just about every other firm in the city. I love where I work, proud of what I do, feel that I am compensated fairly and would never leave for another firm. You can call me a JD Partner or recruiter, but I'm just telling it how I see it.

mmmmm....bumb....is that how they pronounce it in columbus or whatever shitty town you are in?

I don't understand JD associates who are apologists for the confidential comp crap. How does secrecy benefit associates in ANY way?

In a non-lockstep firm, associates need to know where they stand and how they can improve. instead you have people all over the comments who are confused and don't know why they got worse (or better) than their peers or just have no idea at all how they compare.

i work at KE and the comp system is much more straightforward. merit is a on 1-10 scale and bonus is a component of both merit and hours billed. why doesn't JD move onto a consistent and transparent system like that? oh wait -- maybe because they don't want to actually be consistent and start paying bonuses and salaries commensurate with performance.

JD is a great firm. Is it transparent ? No, of course not. But it has no debt; quality work; and pays its quality associates top dollar. Lock step compensation rewards the associates that do the bare miminum to survive.

The notion that JD's lack of transparency somehow denies associates the abilty "to know where they stand" is absurd. There is more information about what firm's pay associates than ever. If you want to know where you stand you compare your salary to that information. Why is that hard?

The notion that JD's lack of transparency somehow denies associates the abilty "to know where they stand" is absurd. There is more information about what firm's pay associates than ever. If you want to know where you stand you compare your salary to that information. Why is that hard?

The notion that JD's lack of transparency somehow denies associates the abilty "to know where they stand" is absurd. There is more information about what firm's pay associates than ever. If you want to know where you stand you compare your salary to that information. Why is that hard?

142--how do you know they have no debt? it's a black box. the lack of transparency extends to the firm's finances.

You're just going to have to accept that fewer JD attorneys hate their firm than most.

Can someone please explain why JD DC doesn't give bonuses? I really liked the people I interviewed with there, but I had to turn them down b/c of the no bonus issue. I simply cannot believe that they had the gall to tell me straight up that I would never receive a bonus as an associate at JD DC. I smiled politely, with my offer in hand, and proceeded to put them at the bottom of my list. Why any law student with other decent options would ever choose JD DC is beyond comprehension.

I find it interesting that the people griping about lack of transparency are the non-JD commentators. Is this a case of us having information and you not? I mean, I know how I compare with the market (assuming half-Skadden) and how I did on my performance evaluation and I feel comfortable with the correlation between the two.

142, i'd venture to say it's indeed very hard for people to know where they stand based on the smattering of bonus info posted on ATL or info by word of mouth within the firm. people giving such info will always spin it a certain way too to make themselves look better. hard numbers don't lie -- ranges, medians, hours billed. if the firm has nothing to hide, why not publicize it?

I got full-Skadden, spread over the whole year of course in the Jones Day custom.

Im busy, but not a superstar or anything.

Still, I'll take it!

At the end of the day, the firm puts a certain amount of dollars in your pocket. Why is it hard to compare that number to the information out there about how other firms pay. Why does the median matter?

This JD knocking is done by people without quality info. I am a mid-level associate that got more than double the full Skadden bonus, spread out over the year. JD is a great place to work, with few screamers and as little stress as possible with what we do. Lack of transparency is unfortunate, but the "bonuses" were outstanding this year, when people at other firms are getting laid off or their comp rates frozen in the face of an awful economy. Haters, can eat it....

This JD knocking is done by people without quality info. I am a mid-level associate that got more than double the full Skadden bonus, spread out over the year. JD is a great place to work, with few screamers and as little stress as possible with what we do. Lack of transparency is unfortunate, but the "bonuses" were outstanding this year, when people at other firms are getting laid off or their comp rates frozen in the face of an awful economy. Haters, can eat it....

71/90. Transferring offices is not as hard as you may think. I will give you two examples. 1) A friend of mine transferred from the New York office to the chicago office. From her account, they only needed to check and see if the Chicago office had a need in the department she wanted to transfer to, and then she took the Illinois bar and transferred. 2) A friend of mine who was a summer in NYC, but from Cleveland got an offer from the New York office, and they said he could accept it in the New York or Cleveland office, even though he never interviewed with or worked with anyone in Cleveland.

That being said, pick Jones Day. They are the only firm that minimizes the asshole factor during recruitment, which is a seldom-documented attribute.

149, glad that you're comfortable. But me, I couldn't care less about Skadden because know that I would never go there. I just want to know how I compare within JD.

156: I got more than market (market being 1/2 Skadden), and considering I billed less than 1300 as of last month, I'll take that cash and go play in my free time.

Still waiting for any of the JDers to respond to my comment @ 148.

The bonus issue is a non-issue. All that matters is whether the number of total dollars is comparable to the compensation paid by other firms. Whether it is base or bonus does not matter.

Dallas folks....how did we do??

148 - Well, as least this year, you COULD come out ahead there.

The extra is just labeled "Salary" and not "bonus."

You're just going to have to accept that fewer JD attorneys hate their firm than most.

153 -- I call total BS on that. So you're making $300k+ as a 4th or $330k+ as a 5th year? Because that's what market salary + "more than double the full Skadden bonus, spread out over the year" would equal.

152, it matters if you care about your standing at the firm and how you compare to your peers in both pay and hours. it also matter if you care about how your firm treats its associates. lack of transparency simply encourages the firm to make arbitrary decisions. right now, you're left guessing why two people who claim to be "busy but not superstars" got totally different packages.

163=ditto. I received a very good bump on top of my market salary, but there's no way JD is paying a mid-level that kind of money.

164 What you say makes no sense. You dont dispute that an associate can compare their comp to the standard comp. Why do you have to know what other people are billing to know if your comp is competitive? You asset that lack of transparency encourages the firm to make arbitary decisions but you dont trouble yourself to explain why this is so. Lock step pay protects the people who cannot justify their comp on the merits: Pay me X because I am a 5th year even though I suck!!! You also fail to explain why a firm is supposedly treating associates worse if they all dont know what each other makes or dont all make the same. Why does this follow?

Correct 163. Some people are getting WAY above market and were VERY happy / in disbelief yesterday. I think even the new folks that just graduated got bumped to $170k, which would be more than a Skadden $160k + $30k pro-rated.

The obvious downside (for associates at least) is that now no one can collect a bonus and leave in January - we all have to stay put to realize the full value of the raise/bonus.

148/158: No bonus doesn't mean below market comp (although with the non-lockstep system, it very well could if you are as obnoxious as you sound).

148 is a dope dont respond to him

JD Chicago third year, good billables, great reviews, no bonus.

JD Chicago third year, good billables, great reviews, no bonus.

The firm did not pay bonuses this year. it is not going to do so in the future. It will pay one number. The firm has explicitly said this. If your comp is less than that at comparable firms, however, it is because you suck. "Good reviews and good billables" is your characterization. If you had those you would not be under compensated.

163 & 165 – I can’t vouch 153’s claim, but it might be true. Some JD NY associates are receiving a base salary that would make their all-in comp in excess of their contemporaries at Skadden. I would be ~25k ahead of a Skadden classmate.

I enjoy the work and the company of most of my colleagues.

A mid-level

Let me get this straight. Cravath gave lock-step bonuses this year and said it might not give any bonuses next year. Jones Day instead raised individual base salaries to reflect its bonus awards, presumably making those bonuses the floor for next year's comp (unless Jones Day plans to cut overall comp next year).

Why are we knocking Jones Day's system again?

Because the depth of analysis around here is as follows: if talking about a firm, (1) consult Vault rankings, and (2) form a conclusive opinion therefrom. If talking about a school, (1) consult US News rankings, and (2) form a conclusive opinion therefrom.

Because the depth of analysis around here is as follows: if talking about a firm, (1) consult Vault rankings, and (2) form a conclusive opinion therefrom. If talking about a school, (1) consult US News rankings, and (2) form a conclusive opinion therefrom.

Anyone have news about the layoffs at JD? i heard that there have been (stealth) layoffs at JD, Willkie, Schulte and Shearman.

I was at Jones Day and chose to move out of biglaw. My salary was confidential and higher than market (with no bonus). They pay for quality (I billed at 2000 with a ton of pro bono). Partners I worked for keep in touch and ask about my family. On top of that, JD is constantly named the (or "a") top litigation firm and has some absurdly high number of SCOTUS clerks (like 15 or 20 in DC alone). They go where it's good.

Jones Day sucks. It is BS for them to change the compensation system when people are expecting bonuses. I was planning on leaving and taking my bonus. I am now completely screwed. If you are going to use some type of deferred compensation to get people to stick around, you should be up front about it. Given the lack of transparency (and lack of any explanation), who knows what nonsense they will pull next year. If the firm is going to adopt this approach, they should explain what they are doing and make clear that this is how compensation will work going forward.

the comments on this site have really gone to the sh*tter. Seriously, people, stop sounding so stupid and enough with the "i'm better than you" attitude." that's not going to get you anywhere in life.

5th year JD associate here. Totally satisfied. No bonus but my 09 salary will be $30k above the same year on the Cravath scale (inclusive of bonus). Like the people I work with too. But NYC firms, Latham, etc. are still way more prestigious. Puhleez.

Jones Day is a great place to work. If you want to work hard and do challenging work for generally good people, its a great place. If you want to work hard and make the same as the guy down the hall that leaves every day at 4:30, probably not the firm for you.

In all seriousness, couldn't be happier with the firm, the people I work with or the comp.

173 - Good point.

Actually, even if i get no raise AT ALL next year, I think I will still be getting market + a small bonus. And thats assuming "market" is not adjusted down in the next year.

The JD system is also good if you join the firm midyear and thus dont have a ton of hours. No pro-rating since its salary and not a lump sum.

It is still unclear what is happening in the Ohio offices. What say you Cleveland or Columbus associates?

Are information on stealth layoffs?

3rd year associate, non-NY office. All-in, I will make $15k vs. a person my year at Cravath. Will bill slightly under 2000 hours this year. So glad I picked JD over some other firms (including K&E).

185 - I actually took JD over K&E too because I liked the people better. Feeling WAY better about that decision this week since Im making more than I would have there...not that I was particularly regretting it before.

184 - Have not heard of any, though that doesn't prove there aren't happening. I know people with zero work.

3rd year JD non-NY office, $30K bump in base salary for 2009, making close to 5th year money. Not complaining.

3rd year JD non-NY office, $30K bump in base salary for 2009, making close to 5th year money. Not complaining.

3rd year JD non-NY office, $30K bump in base salary for 2009, making close to 5th year money. Not complaining.

3rd year JD non-NY office, $30K bump in base salary for 2009, making close to 5th year money. Not complaining.

JD Associate (Chicago, less than 5th year). 2100+ hours; decent reviews. As noted by many others, received salary bump above market lock-step. It amounts to $5k more than market salary + half skadden bonus. I suppose some could say that the extra $5k is worth waiting the next year to realize, but I would prefer to get the half-skadden bonus now than wait until Nov/Dec next year to get that extra $5k.

It sounds like many of my colleagues received huge bumps; perhaps my tune wuold change if i was in their shoes.

Jones Day has done this move in the past. It is a great move for them because it delays the pain paying out a big lump sum now and it keeps people around for another year. Not that there is much ability to move right now, but if you are a top performing IP litigator, for example, you might be looking at a base salary cut of $30k to jump to another firm. That might be too much risk especially since you only get that amount of money back from your new firm if your new firm pays bonuses.
The question is if Jones Day is going to use their higher salaries to recruit from top shops now? Again, take a hot practice like IP Litigation. How would you like to collect your bonus from Skadden this month then walk down the street in January to your $30k higher paying job at Jones Day?

JD associate here. Got a 25 percent raise. LOVE my job. LOVE the people I work with. LOVE making 50,000 per year more than the lathamites.

Simple Question: Did any Class of 2007 JD Associates (current 2nd year) get any kind of extra salary bump?

194 - only a 15k salary bump for most (have talked to quite a few peers), which equates to only a $5k "bonus".

also, let's face it. all the talk about paying for quality and JD being a meritocracy is complete bullshit (at least in my office) as I happen to know for a fact that at least some people who received stellar reviews are being compensated at the same level as people who received mediocre reviews.

And you know the stellar vs. mediocre reviews because how? because the recipients told you?

And you know the stellar vs. mediocre reviews because how? because the recipients told you?

JD=Home of the happy Mustache Rider

Any other info on the Class of 2007 at JD NY or JD Chi?

Thanks to ATL I realized that JD is a TLF and every other firm that wanted to hire me is also a TLF. I made the smart choice: a job at Olive Garden as a host. They've got financial transparency and once I become a server I'll get bonuses from my tables (if they actually let me work my own shifts instead of covering for shift breaks where the tip actually goes to the other server.) Have fun being a sucker at a law firm guys!!!!

So is the bonus supposed to be incorporated in the 2009 salary? My comp letter mentions nothing about a bonus per se, though the step up in salary is good (assuming that the bonus is not built in).

Non NY JD office... 7k salary increase . '06 grad. No bonus even mentioned in letter.

#178 said: "It is BS for them to change the compensation system when people are expecting bonuses. I was planning on leaving and taking my bonus. I am now completely screwed." That's the best argument ever stated for why a law firm should never pay lump-sum bonuses to associates. Why not invest higher annual salaries in people who perform at a high level, want to stay, build a career, and make major contributions to the enterprise over a longer period of time? Oh, yeah -- because that would be a rational way to run a professional organization (instead of rewarding punks like #178 who think it's their birthright to grab a bag of cash and leave). I bet if you made yourself and your intentions known to your superiors, they'd give you $10K to get the hell out tomorrow and save themselves the trouble of carrying you and your attitude for another year.

202 - Midwestern office, or West Coast office?

Any Texas office info?

204 -- Neither.

JD is not only LAYING OFF associates in multiple offices, but they are also DEMOTING partners in at least one office.

Don't believe the hype. JD associates are extremely unhappy and have been for a while. Mid-upper level associates left JD Houston in droves last year and even more are looking for a way out of that hell hole.

Don't get me wrong, it is great if you love being treated like shit, underpaid and spending most of your time doing document reviews.

Yes, have heard of stealth lay offs at JD. Be happy if you still have your job and don't worry about the size of your bonus. Some very smart and busy JD associates will be looking for jobs this year.

207, 209 -- which JD offices? Have not heard of any layoffs in the SF/SV offices.

210-Can't say. Most people won't talk, so they think they are alone. Firm doesn't call them layoffs. Haven't heard anything about SF/SV.
203-In all fairness to 178-About the bonuses, those are supposed to be based on last year's performance, so the fact that someone counts on it because they earned it and the office PIC promised it to the office and then broke that promise two years in a row, doesn't make the associate a worthless loser. Not even the "golden boys" got the bonuses in the offices I know about. So give it up on the old --well you all suck and don't merit the bonuses, that's why you didn't get them--. It is all a bunch of BS & the sooner you figure that out and don't let them cut your balls off the better your life will be. BTW-JD won't give you 10k to leave.

Do not care really much on bonuses, as in the real world (and this economic climate has brought a lot of people down to earth) bonuses are never guaranteed, promised or actually earned. Bonuses have never been a plus, but always a way of holding associates by the balls. I prefer working in a firm where I know how much I will earn next year, and if I am really good, I will get a good increase. If I don't get it I can always leave.
Also suggest to those here who are soooo good that can laugh at a given law school name or law firm name to go out there and build up your own firm --- or if you wish to remain an employee send a CV to Starbucks.

I got a bonus, higher than last year. Interact with leadership as much as possible and produce quality work and you will be rewarded. It's not complicated.

213 --- "I got a bonus, higher than last year. Interact with leadership as much as possible and produce quality work and you will be rewarded. It's not complicated."

talk about hubris and naiveté...you clearly have no idea what you are talking about...JD counts on overly confident associates. Folks who've seen others screwed over, but somehow believe that they are better than all of them and will never suffer such a fate...yeah, you keep on believing that...right up until the time they kick your ass out because you don't have that "special quality" necessary to become partner

Ex-JD LA here. That office is indeed doing stealth layoffs.

Generally, it's a good place to work-- matched salaries, but less hellish than the other offices. Used to have nice, fun people, although many have left. It looks good on a resume-- that's how I got my current super cushy job.

But 214 is absolutely correct-- do not count on a lengthy career there. All but one or two superstar gunners (who happen to be in the right practice area working for the right people) in any given class will need another plan after about year 10 or 12. And yes, the JD partnership track is that long, don't let anyone tell you differently.

I should clarify that I (215) was not one of those laid off! But I've heard about the layoffs from reputable sources still with the firm.

any stealth layoffs in the ohio offices?

I've heard about stealth layoffs, as well as forced demotions for some partners. nothing's out in the open. i guess it's what "the economy demands", but all the secrecy is taking its toll on morale.

I've heard about stealth layoffs, as well as forced demotions for some partners. nothing's out in the open. i guess it's what "the economy demands", but all the secrecy is taking its toll on morale.

Been at JD about a year. Take my comment with a grain of salt as I may get laid off -- more about that below. I'm from a top 10 Law School. I got paid no bonus last year. And I frankly didn't expect one.

I'm sort of a slacker. I have to admit I am. I do quality work, I just refuse to work more than 60 hours a week ... EVER. I generally work closer to 50 hours a week. Now I can't say thats been easy because in my practice group in my office that is certainly not the norm. But here's the thing ... so far people haven't given me that much grief for my casual attitude to hours.

Now my work is good (I was in the top 10% of my undergrad class at a school listed in the US News top 5). Admittedly my rank in law school was near the bottom, because I never studied and my school was full of gunners.

Reading these comments I realize I'm nothing like most of you. I don't really want a bonus. I just want enough money to travel and buy some inexpensive toys (like a nice TV and PS3).

Jones Day seems to be cool with this ... and so far they haven't been pushing too hard on forcing me to work longer than I want to. Some of this is no doubt the economy ... I'm probably not a bad employee in these times ... I do good work, just don't want to do a lot of it. And I don't expect to be paid any more than my base.

Look, I'm 26, I party at least one day during the week. Don't do work on the weekends (usually), and have a pretty sweet ride. I play video games AT LEAST an hour a day. My career is probably not on the fast track. Actually I know for a fact it isn't. I'm ok with that. I'm only going to be young once. I slept with only one girl my entire undergrad. I used law school to make up for that ... and I'm trying to continue that trend. Thats really my top priority. And I'm not gonna look like I do now forever, so seriously fuck law, I'm getting laid as much as I can now.

My classmates at "better" firms are making more money. I know they are even if they don't say so. They work more than me though, and are stressed out. Even the ones that are getting more tail are more stressed out. They just don't know how to enjoy life.

So not to be too zen, but to recap, the thing I like about Jones Day is that I haven't been fired for slacking. And though my volume of work blows, I have been praised for the quality of my work. It remains to be seen whether I get fired or not for not billing more.

I bet if I negotiated with my partner I could figure out a way to get paid less and work normal 40 hour weeks. I'm seriously thinking about that. I know this is orthogonal to this entire thread, but just another viewpoint.

220: friend, use of words such as "orthogonal" will NOT help you get laid.

221: Good point. I'll try and eliminate it from my vocabulary. But in my defense. I've never said it out loud.