poop

"to suit?" it's "to follow suit."

MysTTTal

can you please proofread or grammar check your posts -- it would take 1 minute.

Jones Day pays better than Kirkland! wOOt wOOt!!!

I was just at the meeting, and this report is generally false. K&E numbers are distributed (since it's not lock-step) such that a significant number of associates are making more than Cravath.

Another firm follows Cravath, but not Latham.

Milbank froze salaries for 2009; no lock-step pay increases. Lovely.

Jones Day pays better than Kirkland!?!??

And a sig number are making BELOW cravath! Since KE pays based on hours, and hours are low cause of market forces, a NUMBER of KE assoc will be below cravath

VERY few assoc hit or go above skadden...

Big ass sham of paying top of mkt

6: You, sir, are a miserable failure.

This is the non-informative quote from Desmairis today at the NYC meeting concerning layoffs.

"No layoffs in the foreseeable future if you are performing at the top of the market."

Hey, NYC people, cut the "uh huh!" "nuh-uh!" commentary, and give us the real details--hours numbers, range of high-mid-low, etc. Come on, because Elie's obviously got it wrong.

Lulz. Kirkland = TTT.

Stop trying to sugarcoat. The report is NOT generally false. It's true in SF, it's true in LA, and I have little doubt it's true in NY, CH, and DC as well.

It fucking sucks. What is with you fucking Kool-Aid drinkers? Screw these assholes.

So... Cravath should move up in the law firm prestige rankings since everyone seems to be copying it without rhyme or reason.

I think it's great that ATL is not covering Jones Day. We're so TTT you don't want to know anything about us... Besides, the compensation details would be WAY too spotty to make any sort of analysis since all associates may be compensated differently. Sounds like it's managed more like, dare I say it, a corporation!

Nothing to see at Jones Day, move on...

All of these firms suck! There is no upside to being at a "top" firm....none whatsoever.....instead of my v15, I should have gone to Dechert or Orrick

Cravath should move up in the law firm prestige rankings since everyone seems to be copying it without rhyme or reason.

22 '07 NYC associates being paid above Cravath, but the class is somewhere like 45 to 50 associates.

No word on the payouts to the remainder of '07 NYC associates. It could be at or below the Cravath mark.

Make no mistake, K&E already did stealth layoffs last year at this time. Management tries to stay ahead of the curve.

And just think bitches, this is as good as it's going to get for the next five years. Salaries and bonuses will be headed south this time next year - for those who still have jobs.

What is the bonus range for '07 associates?

13 -- are you serious? Is that a direct quote from the NY meeting? 'Cause that's pretty funny.

Jones Day people: tips@abovethelaw.com

--Elie

islam = ttt
ttt= cravath
kirkland = cravath

So basically, my cock is bigger than K&E's bonus.

I win New York. Bow down O feeble mortals.

Errrrm, assuming the story is right about K&E explicitly stating that its approach is based on Cravath's . . . wee bit of an antitrust problem there??

Hunkering down for next year, shouldn't really impact bonuses which, one would think, are tied to the profitability of the most recent year. Firms must be using Cravath as cover for increasing their margins.

Does any of this matter for 3Ls starting in Sept. of 2009? Our first (full) bonus would be at the end of 2010; is there any way we will avoid these piss-poor bonuses?

BigLaw is functionally broken in this economy.

Much like Madoff's swindles being exposed due to the depressed economy, many law firms are being exposed as being unable to function effectively in an economic sense without a rising tide.

Instead, Biglaw is left gasping for air on a beach where the monetary tide has receded.

If you haven't already left BigLaw to go inhouse or government, or nonprofits, you are in deep doo-doo.

Sucks to be you.

So basically, my cock is bigger than K&E's bonus.

I win New York. Bow down O feeble mortals.

Kevin....????

So about 40-50% of K&E are above Cravath?

25, I am 13.

Yes, direct quote. I'm thinking it means they are considering layoffs for people who are not busy right now.

30, you don't get a stub bonus at K&E, so you don't even need to worry about that. Bonuses two years from now are so far away it's absurd for you to worry.

I hope that Elie gets a Christmas Bonus that rivals a Skadden 8L's. His ability to put up with whinging ATL pedants and retards on a daily basis is something that most of the fuckwits at K&E couldn't manage even if we payed them a double-Skadden.

*steals skaddenburgers*

Kirkland folks, please give us details (class/rating/hours/bonus), and pass along anything else you heard at the meeting.

I just started at K&E, and we first years are ridiculously out-of-the-loop. Hearing your feedback is the only clue we have as to the firm's strength and outlook.

As a side note, my decision to join Kirkland over Skadden (both in Chicago) is looking dumber by the minute. I could accept the fact that we don't get bonuses (bonii?) as "stubs" (even though I'd be $6,000 richer -- after tax -- right now had I joined Skadden), but it now seems clear that Kirkland either (a) is not as well run of a business as I thought, or (b) is no longer committed to top-of-the-market compensation (and, in turn, talent).

Please explain to me how I did NOT choose the wrong firm. I'd also like to hear how Skadden did so much better than we did this year. Are they that good? Have we become worse?

Any word on what K&E has planned for NSPs bonus-wise?

35

I would wager that 80 percent of the associates in my firm are "not busy right now."

28 - I hope you are not an antitrust lawyer.

"I think it's great that ATL is not covering Jones Day."

That's because you guys suck.

Jones Day. One suckage, worldwide.

26: Didn't you get the memo? It is so TTT to be racist. Your post speaks volumes of your ignorance and ego.

Does any of this matter for 3Ls starting in Sept. of 2009? Our first (full) bonus would be at the end of 2010; is there any way we will avoid these piss-poor bonuses?

Did Skadden Chicago get the same bonuses as Skadden NYC?

28 -- I am a K&E associate who is annoyed that my bonus is keyed to Cravath rather than Skadden, but you are clearly not an antitrust lawyer. Conscious parallelism is not an antitrust violation. It's no different from a legal perspective than a gas station matching the price of the competitor across the street.

Also, of course it is not true that K&E exactly matched Cravath. That's not the way they do things. They always try to beat what they perceive to be the "market" for most associates. The news story is that they set that market at Cravath levels, not at Skadden levels.

28 - think again: agreement or above the law? and, what about the past salary and bonus increases?

Is there anything better than licking the ass of a CWT female associate?

Another 3L starting there next fall -- should we be worried about the shape of the firm at all? As long as my job is still there in October, I guess I can't complain too much. But it's frustrating that K&E does a whole song and dance about paying top of the market and then does this.

what do the third year assoc...i mean "partners" get paid?

Dear 1Ls,

Please STFU ("shut the fuck up") about how employee salary-matching is an antitrust violation.

43 - Suck it all the way to the bank.

31 - Or you could have gone to a boutique. We're paid WAY above market. The bonuses people here get excited about are less than the low-end bonuses for us. We also make partner - equity partner - years before our biglaw counterparts.

All you need are good grades and a decent clerkship (which many in biglaw have).

Oh, and you can't be a lemming.

numbers?

34 - No.

Basically, from the people I've talked to here, if you were a top biller (and I'm talking 2300+ range), you'll a few thousand more than Cravath, but you won't hit Skadden.

Here's a reference point - there was an associate (third year) who billed well over 3,000 hours. He's getting $60k. Sure, that beats Skadden, but normally, that's a six-figure bonus here.

-- K&E'er

Kirkland folks, please give us details (class/rating/hours/bonus), and pass along anything else you heard at the meeting.

I just started at K&E, and we first years are ridiculously out-of-the-loop. Hearing your feedback is the only clue we have as to the firm's strength and outlook.

As a side note, my decision to join Kirkland over Skadden (both in Chicago) is looking dumber by the minute. I could accept the fact that we don't get bonuses (bonii?) as "stubs" (even though I'd be $6,000 richer -- after tax -- right now had I joined Skadden), but it now seems clear that Kirkland either (a) is not as well run of a business as I thought, or (b) is no longer committed to top-of-the-market compensation (and, in turn, talent).

Please explain to me how I did NOT choose the wrong firm. I'd also like to hear how Skadden did so much better than we did this year. Are they that good? Have we become worse?

Jones Day pays the associates that matter above market wages. The bottom 1/3 of the associates get paid below market but who cares if they quit

It's very interesting to hear people complaining about getting bonuses. They are just that people--a BONUS!! It's not something to which you are entitled and certainly no so if you really suck as an associate, but you've been allowed to tow the line for whatever reason. As for the 2009 a**holes worrying about your bonus in 2010 . . . be happy you have a f***ing job!!! Where on earth did you all get this ridiculous sense of entitlement? Wait until you get smacked with a dose of reality one of these days. Then you'll be on here whining and complaining about how it sucks to be an associate at a large law firm.

What is the top bonus for class of '07?

Skadden is not as invested in the financial services world as, say, a Cravath. Skadden has a top tier restructuring group. Skadden Corporate is still busy (but not as busy as it was in the first nine months of the year). Skadden has zero long term debt.

57 - what have you done for K&E?

I feel sorry for all the K&Eers who justified their miserable working environment with getting paid slightly more than market every year. Now they don't have that and they will soon realize how shitty it really is to be an associate there. And those of you K&E recruits asking questions, hopefully you still find the place as attractive without the "earth-shattering" pay BS their recruiters always spout.

here is the private equity model:

1. give me money

2. i will charge you 1.5 percent a year to "manage" the money

3. i will also charge you 20% of your gains above 8 percent (or so).

4. will then invest that money in the S&P and if I get lucky, i make a ton. if i get unlucky, you (not me) lose a ton.

57 = d-bagg

@39 - You did not choose the wrong firm for the following reason:

You are a whinging bitchlet with the personality of mildew. At Skadden we would have put up with your moaning sense of entitlement for about twenty minutes, before showing you the door and amputating you from our organisation like a surgeon removing a festering cancer.

Why did we do better than you did this year you ask? Because we don't tolerate working with immature asswipes like yourself.

Skadden 5L

Kirkland associates: look out your window. That monolith down the street is your bonus this year. Happy moving day!

59 and all other partners. Seriously, go away. You obviously don't understand our perspective and you don't want to try. We're not going to listen to you because, frankly, we've heard the same shit a million times over the past 3 months. Why would we all of a sudden start listening to your BS now? And shouldn't you be working?

63 - speaks the truth

Is there anything better than licking the ass of a CWT female associate?

Did K&E also freeze salaries like Latham?

Are Kirkland associates hotter than CWT NY associates?

K&E Associates: "Waaaa, why did I have to go to a firm that pays out lower bonuses than exactly one other firm (excluding Wachtell). And if I work hard the difference is not even that great. But I think the difference for a stub year is apparently $6000 after taxes because I fail at math. Waaa, I wanna go to Skaaaaden. I want more money."

K&E Partner: "You whiny bitches, don't let the door hit you on the way out."

Missed opportunity:
Firms that follow Cravath for whatever reason (hunker down, fear, wisdom, etc) have missed an opportunity to shake the vault rankings and possibly dislodge Cravath at a time when Cravath is vulnerable.

Make no mistake, Cravath announced the numbers it did early because it realized that those numbers were the best it could do and that coming out early would have the exact effect that it has had on other firms. They probably imagined that they’d sway a sufficient number of firms so as not to end up a complete outlier. Instead, what they got was essentially a total coup. Props to Cravath for outmaneuvering its competitors for top talent!

By falling in line, the other firms have not only covered up for Cravath’s weakness, they have placed themselves in a weaker position vis-à-vis Cravath by becoming (or continuing to be?) “followers” rather than leaders.

The same people who're complaining about which firms are up and down based on one year's bonus figures are the same ones who buy high, sell low on the stock market. All short term, no long term. Cravath is better than Skadden. Skadden is better than Kirkland. Kirkland is best in Chicago. Whatever one year's bonus numbers show, either last year's, this year's, or next year's, won't change that. Please get over it.

67 is right. And god, why oh why did K&E move to such a GD ugly building? Of all the major buildings built in River North / Loop / South Loop, I can't think of a single building that is so ugly and unimaginitive (and unfortunately it dominates the skyline on the river). I know K&E didn't design it (though they may well have had a hand in it), but man, it is a festering sore downtown.

No salary freeze at K&E.

64,

Makes you think about what suckers would invest in hedge funds? Oh, that's right, the rich or wanna-be rich.

Makes you pine for regulation, doesn't it? Capitalism may be dynamic and all that, but without intelligent regulation, it just spins out of control with disastrous results that we can see.

You think the bonuses are bad? Count on 40 percent layoffs in law firms by April or May.

64 Close, but no cigar...

4. will then invest that money [by purchasing "underperforming" companies or companies that have value through cutting the fat by "restructuring" the companies and selling them] and if I get lucky, i make a ton. if i get unlucky, you (not me) lose a ton [and I have a hard time raising money from you, but not necessarily others, in the future].

77 is correct. I got my normal salary bump.

59, just because you got laid off doesn't mean you have to be an asshole about it.

75: Keep on telling yourself that. Only K&E associates (and obviously not all of them - see above) think that. Go ask around Chicago or ask the approx. 75% (last year's numbers) of 2Ls who turned down a K&E offer in Chicago.

And 73, it's because of what 63 said (which is 100% true). They've all justified their miserable existence by being the top paid associates in their market. Now that's not true, and they realize they are making the same as a shitload of other firms where people are much happier and nicer, and which does equally interesting work.

"And if I work hard the difference is not even that great."

Yes, at K&E, if you give up whatever little life an associate normally has -- along with your health and personal relationships -- you, too, can make *almost* as much money as a similar associate at Skadden.

Except he only billed 1900 hours for his money, and actually had some time to enjoy life.

Yeah, K&E associates sure have nothing to complain about, because if they work like dogs, they can almost get paid as much as Skadden.

@ 73

K&E Janitor: *logs onto firm computer and types douchey comments and then goes home to his shitty apartment and weeps into his pillow*

57 = demonstrating why K&E associates have a reputation as total dbags.

Who cares about the money or the bonuses when there is the threat of being laid off? It is post 13 that is the news here, not everything else.

this is just so funny. after weeks of hearing of huge kirkland bonuses, kirkland gets shown up by dechert and jones day.

K&E to illusion shattering bonuses!

What a happy ATL day. All year long, blah blah blah from the K&E associates about how bad ass their firm is and how they pay top of the market. Where are they all now? Maybe this will shut them up for a year. Or, better yet, teach them to act like normal, civilized people instead of the douchebags they usually are. At least until someone brings up KITA.

judging by the d-bags i know who work at kirkland it was only a matter of time before this firm hit a wall. d bag city.

78 - I agree with you about layoffs.

Who among us really thinks that a firms "prestige" will save associates from layoffs? Every firm will need to let associates go because partnerships strive to maximize profits per partner, and so partners look after themselves. (Also: If you value your firms vault ranking so much, you also have other problems.)

Do yourselves a favor and quit complaining, be thankful you have jobs during a time when millions of autoworkers may lose theirs, bury your noses in your work and stop showing up to work in your latest (insert: hermes tie, cashmere blazer or LV anything). It's poor taste and you certainly don't want to stick out when times get tough.

Times are tough everywhere...so are K&E partners tightening their belts too, or just cutting associate pay to maintain their PPP?

K&E is the biggest TTT in the vault rankings. unbelievable.

91, cut the populist crap.

57 = I knew people like you in law school and I joined a firm that had the least number of douchbags exemplified by your post. Rot in hell.

59: I got my sense of entitlement at Stanford where we don't screw up idioms like "toe the line"

This blog has gone down the toilet. Comments are 85% ignorant and dominated by law students and Elie shows all of the creative genius of a third grade art student.

Lat needs to step it up and regain control of this site or its going to tank as soon as bonus season is over. IE - today.

Someone also needs to moderate these stupid effing comments.

latham and k&e associates in chicago -- time to change the way you act and time to start showing your respect to real lawyers in this city.

64 - what's your point?

The real story here is post #13.

Expect layoffs.

79 = dumbass first year who thinks private equity is taking over companies instead of simply buying stock....it aint 2003 no more son

101 = DBag Kirkland private equity lawyer who just got punished for being the biggest dbag in the city. that's right SON

97 -- Hear Hear, just copy Dealbreaker, where about 50% of the comments are informed and on point (a.k.a. moderated).

I know Elie is reading the comments, why not take an extra minute and delete the garbage? the obvious answer is ATL prefers to have hundreds of duplicate, inane and/or insulting comments a day to the prospect of 20-50 real comments per post.

If the crap were cut, it wouldn't be too long before the posters would stop posting it. The moderator job would grow smaller by the day.

97 = K&E associate who is just waking up to smell the roses. And 97, most of what people are saying in here about K&E is true. What do you have an issue with?

#100, not just layoffs, but slimy layoffs that are aggressively portrayed as "performance based" rather than based on economic conditions.

And I am sure somebody will respond that "layoffs are always performance based, firms pick out the lowest performers." That may well be true. It's still incredibly slimy for firms to try to focus on the performance and take a big dump on their career futures just to try to pretend there's nothing wrong financially.

It's always amusing to read individuals who say, be thankful for having a job.

Ah, yes. The average attorney should cast in his lot with the average autoworker. After all, the parallels are obvious.

An attorney excels in high school, obtains high standardized test scores, spends four years in college, obtains high grains, obtains a high standardized test score, spends three years in law school, interviews with dozens of firms after sending hundreds of resumes, and attempts to maximize earning potential with six figures of debt. He spends a summer memorizing the law (as in, everything) to pass a test and become a professional. Sure, sometimes, he's got daddy's money to help, or an Ivy diploma. But for most of them, it doesn't work out like that. They're Midwestern farm kids or second generation immigrants who got into a good school, scrapped their way to the top with some logic and writing, and now want to pay off some debt.

Meanwhile, the autoworker dropped out of high school at 17 to sweep the floor of the factory where his daddy worked. At 45, he earns a total benefits package of $73 an hour for doing work that most 15-year-olds, Pakistanis, and robots could handle. Then, when his company can't dole out enough money to pay for health premiums, he complains to his union, who's been skimming money off to help run a cushy lifestyle of lobbying and complaining. And, when faced with the potential of getting a "real" job on the street, with a resume as thin as single-ply, he begs Congress for a few billion to tide him over for six months.

Then the autoworker reminds the attorney, "Yes, be grateful you have a job." Ah, yes. Of course.

66, what is a "whinging bitchlet?" The harshness of your response seems disproportionate to the post that prompted it. Disclaimer: I am also a first year K&E associate.

That said, I don't read anything in 39's post that indicates a "moaning sense of entitlement." She (or he) signed on knowing she wouldn't get a bonus during her stub year, and that's exactly what she got. No problem there.

The real concern is the firm's "strength and outlook," and that's what she's asking about. I think it's a legit question. These are frightening times economically and almost every day we read about another dissolved firm, pay freezes, layoffs, etc. As first years no one talks to us about these things, and we're not invited to the bonus meetings that non-first years attend. At least one person posted that the tone of the meeting indicated that layoffs were not out of the question.

I am very happy to have a great job right now. I get paid more than I deserve. But I am worried about my job because it sounds like K&E lost a step this year, at least relative to previous years.

100 is right. The layoffs are coming.

Me Captain Caveman. Me "have strong year." Me also think Elie no use proper grammar just to annoy Captain Caveman. This make me a sad Captain Caveman.

100 is right. The layoffs are coming.

Is there anything better than licking the ass of a CWT female associate?

100 is right.

40 percent of you will not be working come April.

Wall Street will be downsizing and so will all law firms.

The money ain't there to pay you. Partners aren't going to shave off pennies on the dollar on the viable accounts receivables to pay you.

Yes, be grateful you have a job, but have an exit strategy. Playing World of Warcraft or getting freaky with a CWT 05 associate are not options.

Can anyone provide a list of the other top firms which still have yet to announce? (My firm is in this category and it is getting ridiculous at this point!)

81, not only have I NOT been laid off, I got a VERY NICE bonus and I know that I am a highly valued asset to my firm . . . no worries here about being laid off. You, and the other posters who feel the need comment on being called on the carpet for your b**ching, are probably the ones that need to be thinking about what you're going to be doing after you're laid off!

I am a large law firm partner and I would fire you for your piss poor attitudes and general greediness. Be grateful you have a job at all and try to help someone other than yourselves next year. Get a life.

I am a large law firm partner and I would fire you for your piss poor attitudes and general greediness. Be grateful you have a job at all and try to help someone other than yourselves next year. Get a life.

100 is right. The layoffs are coming.

115/116: You're next on the chopping block.

61 and others who tout Skadden's diverse client base as protection in these trying times: please list for us the 10 biggest clients by revenue for Skadden and explain why those clients are magically not affected by the ongoing and systemic collapse of international finance.

40% cut in associates doesn't make sense unless there is a equal cut in partner ranks. that is pretty drastic and could risk the firm itself. firms will ride this out like they have been doing the past year. if they haven't already, they will cut 10-20% of hard hit practice groups.

Awww. Poor babies at these big firms are only getting 1/3 the annual salary of their peers in the same class. Please excuse me while I shed a tear for them. Did any one else receive an invitation to the pity party?

116, f&*% you.

K&E Associate.

Reasons Why Kirkland Sucks:

1: No homegrown partners
2: They lateral in partners who are clowns and/or in nonproductive practice areas.
3: Below market bonuses.

If they want people to bail, they are going to get their wish.

115/116 partner, you've got a point about whiny associates. Just ignore them, and go bring in some business so that those of us around here who want to work, but don't have work, can do something besides read ATL.

106 is an idiot.

Poster 91 clearly did not compare lawyers to auto-workers on a professional level. S/he merely pointed out the obvious: that our economy is tanking and many, many people are losing their jobs. Autoworkers are most visibly losing their jobs because their news has been dominating the headlines. Moreover, the auto industry is the backbone of our economy. If millions of auto-workers and industry related workers loose their jobs, you - as a lawyer who feeds off of the profitability of business for the most part - will most definitely feel the ripple effect.

You have a serious chip on your shoulder and need to appreciate the current dismal business environment for what is.

As has been previously posted on comments, this economy is going to result in (at least a short term) shift in the power structure of law firms.

Firms that have traditionally represented financial institutions and PE shops churning deals but with no institutional knowledge (other than the variations on Morgan Stanley blue and the what points to concede in an underwriting agreement) are going to be in for a world of hurt.

Firms with a well balanced practice with a global presence will be much better off. In 2009, companies may not be doing deals and will not need financial advisers and their counsel, but they will still be conducting business, dealing with SEC compliance, etc. Corporate legal work isn't going away - but DEAL volume is obviously taking a huge hit.

Get ready Cravath, Latham, K&E, Shearman, associates.

Wasn't going to post, but I just have to correct all the assumptions/misinformation. Our bonuses do beat market and the level of transparency is above reproach.
Class of 2007 numbers for Kirkland NY:
3: 17.5-20
10: low-mid 20
4: high 20s
3: high 30s
1: 40s
1: 50s
Total above cravath: 22
Total associates: high 30s
There was some confusion about whether 68% of the class got higher than Cravath, or the average bonus was 68% higher than Cravath, but I believe it's the latter.

111,

I, too, have a serious fetish like yours, but I draw the line at CWT 05 associates. I like hot women. CWT associates, however, are not hot.

115 - I am your wife and I am f*cking one of your associates right now.

@107, in answer to your first question: See post 39.

how freaking foolish does skaTTTen feel just about now?

127 --

Is this for real? This can't be right.

How many hours did the 2 associates getting 40 and 50k bill?

If these numbers are correct, then basically all of the posts so far have been way off.

Post 127 is accurate.

- 7

Yes, that's why i posted. They didn't tell us hours. But firmwide average is less than 2000. Not all classes did this well compared to market, but people seemed interested in the 2007 numbers.
--127

127

So, did the rest of the 2007 associates simply get zero bonus? Or do those numbers represent the entire class of 2007. If so, these numbers are impressive.

123 nailed it.

the best part about being a kirkland associate is, at least you do not work at latham

What is FISH & RICHARDSON doing?

If 127 is accurate, then it seems like Kirkland's "disappointing" bonuses are being badly exaggerated. Those numbers don't blow others out of the water as has been the case in years past, but they seem solid.

I haven't kept up with the legal news very well--has any firm besides Skadden announced bigger bonuses than those that Kirkland is reporting?

This is a bad year for everyone, and if the worst we can say is that the bonuses, while high on an absolute level, are lower than year's past, I think we're doing pretty well. I know my friends in the financial industry (those who still have a job, that is) aren't expecting 2007 bonuses.

Lastly, 127, if I read your post correctly, you are saying that the total number of associates in your class is in the high 30's, yet you only posted bonus data for 22 of them. Does that mean that more than a dozen received no bonus? Sorry if I'm missing something--I haven't taken a math class since high school.

135,

I should have clarified, sorry. There are 15 or 16 people in the 2007 classs who got Cravath or slightly below. We weren't told those numbers. We were just told the number that beat Cravath. Okay, maybe transparency isn't COMPLETELY above reproach. But it's still a damn fine meritocracy.

While you're all salivating over the details, two 2003s got 80s, and one 2003 got high 90s.

--127

jesus=ttt

127 is wrong.

Class of 2004 associate with 2100 hours got 25k. If 127 is right, than a bunch of more senior associates are getting paid less than first years.

To all K&E associates, when do you think the layoffs will start? Which offices will be the hardest hit?

139

We were only given data for those associates "with or above class." I would assume that those who are "below class" receive some bonus (because I've never heard of us giving zero bonus to an associate), but those numbers weren't reported to us.

- 7

To all K&E associates, when do you think the layoffs will start? Which offices will be the hardest hit?

To all K&E associates, when do you think the layoffs will start? Which offices will be the hardest hit?

sorry but walmart greeters do not earn $20 an hour--more like $6-$8. despite the fact that you may think it's impossible to survive on $20/hour, most of the country makes much less. even many NYC residents.

If 127 is right, then K&E NY is making more than Chicago, unless more than 50% of the class of 2007 is over 2400 hours.

142,

127 is correct.

- 7

59, if you didn't get laid off, it's probably because a smart summer associate was proofing your work. See, e.g., post from 96.

Hugs and kisses,
81

So you are telling me that someone in the class of 2007 associate got 50k?

NY will be hit in corporate.

142,

127 is correct. That's what meritocracy means.

142, billable hours is only one component of merit-based pay.
If you only got paid $25k for 2100 hours, sorry about your incompetent work, bro.

127:

So you are telling me that a class of 07 associate got a 50k bonus?

59/114, if you didn't get laid off, it's because a smart summer associate was proofing your work. See, e.g., post 96.

Hugs and kisses,
81

Median Salary for class of 2007 is about $62,000 right now.

-121

151,

Yes, one associate in the class of 2007 got $50k.

- 7

152 -- What about Chicago? Will there be layoffs there? How deep?

Post 142 is accurate. Also, each hour billed over the 2,000 minimum gave the attorney an additional $10. What is the incentive to bill anything over 2,000 if all you are getting is $10 an hour?

149 and 154,

Do you even work at Kirkland? Or are you just dumb? Above class 2004 with 2050 hours got $34k.

Median Salary for class of 2007 is about $62,000 right now.

-121

7:

Wow. Do you know how much s/he billed?

Median Salary for class of 2007 is about $62,000 right now.

-121

this non-lockstep is HORRIBLE....why...its like law school, with competition to get into the best schools, get the best grades...OH NOES!!!

congrats to K&E - once again proving they rule the roost in Chicago -sucks to be skaTTTen but really sucks to be at less than skaTTTen....

151/155,

Not 50K, in the 50s. But yes, that's true. Also, 1 2006 got high 40s, 1 2006 got low 50s, and 1 2006 got high 50s.

--127

127,

I got ~$20k for 2,000 hours, class of 2006. I had exactly half "above class" reviews and half "with class" reviews. UNLESS they are paying more in NY than they are in Chicago, I'm calling BS. I talked to a class of 2005 here with over 2,400 hours, and they're getting less than $30k. Again, I'm calling BS.

163,

We weren't told how much that individual (or any other associates, for that matter) billed. We were only given the spread of "with or above class" bonuses as reported by 127.

- 7

Restructuring associate that basically lived there for a year got the high bonus.

163,

We weren't told how much that individual (or any other associates, for that matter) billed. We were only given the spread of "with or above class" bonuses as reported by 127.

- 7

44,

Islam is not a race.

K&E NY's bonuses are higher than K&E Chicago's.

167,

Call "BS" all you want, but 127's numbers are accurate.

- 7

Someone answer 159's question!

All your bonuses are belong to us!!!!

143, YOU have received THE SHAFT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFV2jLeXtnw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXDcnfne5Kc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm4IJbS98NA

138: Good question re Fish and Richardson. Since the firm's business is solely patent law, I assume they have not taken the same financial hit as other firms. I wonder if they, like K&E, will simply follow the leaders despite having a banner year.

159,

As far as I recall, nothing specific was said regarding layoffs or salary freeze, etc. in Chicago.

- 7

153/154

As an actual K&E associate, and not some fucking first year who thinks they are god's gift to the firm, I actually know what I'm talking about. And if 127's numbers are correct, than other offices got screwed. Especially more senior associates.

It appears that most people on here have no idea what they're talking about. If you get below class, you typically don't get a bonus.

Three actual examples of bonuses for Class of 2004 in offices outside of NY:
1) with class, 2100 hours: 25k
2) above class, 2050: 34.5k
3) with class, 2000 hours: 24k

-- 127

176, love the News Radio reference. I hadn't thought about Andy Dick in too long.

"I'm not saying Andy Dick is gay, but he has been known to guess the flavor of a popsicle just by sticking it up his ass."
--some comedienne during a Comedy Central Roast of Anna Nicole Smith

Has anyone at K&E Chicago received calls?

167,

All of 127's posts have been accurate. The numbers were written on a white board for us during the meeting. We did not have to scramble to write things down.

-k&e associate who wrote down what was written on the board

Can someone from the NY office post "the grid"?

- former, curious, K&Er

Stop the presses! A non-lockstep law firm pays more bonuses in NY than in the other offices!

127

You have been drinking the Kool Aid a little too hard....

Are the layoffs going to be stealth?

Would all of you stop crying about your bonuses. There is no justification or rationalization that is possibly valid in today's world. As a BigLaw client and a graduate of a top tier law school, I choose firms based upon many different factors and it becomes clear to me that a bunch of overpaid, whining associates are the last thing my firm needs in today's economy.

187:

Start complaining about partner compensation. Oh, and I'm sure you thought that you were overpaid when you worked for a firm.

Doubters,

How you like me now bitches?

Warm holiday wishes,
Skadden

Doubters,

How you like me now bitches?

Warm holiday wishes,
Skadden

179,

Quit impersonating me. I kept my tone civil and tried to elevate the discourse and you're making me look bad.

--127

184 -

Interesting how they find it appropriate to bill out non-NY associates at the same rate as NY associates, but pay them less money.

I'd like to find out from a non-Internet source first, but it sure as shit sounds like NY got paid more. It's not supposed to work like that here.

187 -- You are an in-house clown who probably could not cut it at a real firm. And what associates get paid has nothing to do with the bills you pay. Firms will charge you the most that the market will bear; firms pay their associates the least they can get away with. Did you take any econ classes at your "top tier law school"?

Another non-NY K&E associate saying that 127 is either full of shit, or the other offices got SCREWED.

did we ever find out if Sidley was increasing salaries as usual as well? That would make Kirkland, Sidley and Skadden increasing as usual so far in Chicago. That pretty much guarantees Mayer will do so. The real question will then be what combination of MWE, Jenner, Winston, Sonnenschein, etc. will do so as well.

Finally. Finally. All of you idiot K&E trolls are silenced. For weeks we had to listen to your stupid bragging, only to find out that not only is your firm NOT going to "make it rain," but they waited so long just to cave in to the market that they are particularly dispicable (here's looking at you too S&C and Weil).

I hope this finally shows people that high profile or noteworthy business does NOT mean that a firm is doing extraordinary economically, and that other law firms are simply pawns in the game. Call Cravath what you want, but at least the firm has enough balls and respect to come out early, say what it had to say, and that's it. Any firm could have matched Skadden, but they didn't. Other firms tried to do fancy shmancy weird bonus structures involving amounts of hours, but those places are probably going to end up paying out way less than the firms that just simply matched Cravath.
So, you wanna know you're V10 now you whiny jerks:
1- Wachtell
2-Cravath
3-S&C
4-Skadden
5-10: SAME SHIT, just like 1-4
Nothing changes, there you go. Bye

46 - yes, Skadden's bonuses are the same in all US offices (not sure about offices overseas).

I agree with what an earlier poster said re how pissed Skadden's partners must be.

I don't think there's any reason to believe that Skadden's business is so much better than Cravath's, Kirkland's, etc., or that Skadden's clients are somehow immune to the economic crisis impacting other firms' clients.

It seems more likely that Skadden simply announced early, and it guessed wrong on the market. Skadden's associates were enriched at the expense of partners (who I imagine are doing just fine as well), and every other BigLaw firm thus far has been more willing to disappoint associates' expectations.

That said, congrats to Skadden associates for your good fortune. Skadden truly separated itself from the crowd this year.

Another non-NY K&E associate saying that 127 is either full of shit, or the other offices got SCREWED.

192, associate salary is in direct response to the supply and demand of associates. The rate at which the associate is billed out is irrelevant in determining his salary, except insofar as it may indirectly affect the firm's demand for that kind of associate. If you don't like it, move to NY. There you'll complain about how NY should be paid more because of the COL, which is also irrelevant.

By your logic, GM line workers in Mexico should be paid the same as GM line workers in Detroit, since they're producing the same value and making the same cars.

The tipster's math is bad. If you get 30k for billing 400 extra hours, it's $75 per hour (30,000/400=75). Historically, that's not a great bonus, I guess, but it's close to the amount a first year is getting paid for the first 2000 and about 1/4 less than someone making 200k makes for the first 2000.

194 et al.,

I don't think there was an office bias. In New York, no class of 2004 beat skadden and one class of 2002 beat skadden by a little bit. We were told that there were associates in other offices who did beat Skadden for those class years. I don't think you can make year or office generalizations. Across the firm and across class years, lots of people did very well.

185: You'd be drinking Koolaid too if your firm gave out such refreshing Koolaid.

--127

What do first year partners at Krikland get paid?

120 - 40% is almost certainly on the high side (and non-top-tier firms will undoubtedly get tougher with underperforming partners, particularly non-equity partners), but there is not even remotely a one-to-one correspondence between percentage associate reductions and percentage partner reductions.

The idea in a downturn is to deleverage. Thus, a 3:1 leveraged firm could cut 40% of associate headcount and no partners at all and still be 1.8:1 leveraged (or, say, 25% associate reductions with no partner reductions and still be 2.25:1 leveraged), which arguably is sufficient during a prolonged downturn. At the risk of stating the obvious, this scenario is not irrational because (a) you need to keep client relationships warm even if they are not very active and (b) if everyone is cutting associates (that these boards will proclaim to the high heavens are quality associates), then it should not be terribly difficult to ramp up through lateral hiring when the market comes back (based on both plenty of good resumes on the street and relatively little stigma being attached to 08 - 09 reductions due to their ubiquity).

One last cheerful holiday thought: as many on these boards have noted, all of this is considerably more gory for current associates given the huge incoming 2009 classes that many firms have arriving from last summer (as, of course, these boards would have skewered firms that no offered '08 summers to the extent that would have made sense given the disconnect between the economy at the time in 2007 when those summer offers were made and the reality by the end of summer 2008).

Merry Christmas.

46 - yes, Skadden's bonuses are the same in all US offices (not sure about offices overseas).

127's numbers are correct. And here are numbers for Class of 2004.

6: In the 40s
2: In the 30s
5: In the 20s

196 is correct.

- K&E Associate

NYC bonuses were higher than Chicago's. Consider it confirmed.

Can you blame them? Kirkland competes with Skadden in NYC, but not so much in Chicago (I know Skadden has a Chicago office, but its presence in the city does not threaten K&E, and it's not as if K&E Chicago's 500 associates are going to (or could) flood into Skadden, who's total office is about half of that).

what year do associates automatically make partner at ke? i've heard round the watercoola it is year 4 but would like to know the real deal....

Are K&E Chicago associates getting calls? I haven't heard anything at all about bonuses (except for on here).

--K&E chicago associate

Whatever. 1/2 the 2 years got an above-market bonus. Some by a good deal. It's not clear how the other half did, though I'm sure many were below-market and not at-market. Otherwise, they would've publicized it. Upper classes made out better too. Regardless, K & E New York is a great place to work. Can't speak to the Chicago office. But I get mixed reviews from friends.

I'm guessing K&E is just in temporary tough spot, like a lot of firms. PE has slowed. BK and Lit have begun to pick up, but, significantly, they have not begun to pay their legal fees? In a normal year, K&E could pay bonuses by borrowing money secured by accounts receibables. But banks are reluctant to do so for obvious reasons. Thus the lower bonuses. Simply put: I think it's a mistake to assume that these bonuses reflect the strength of the firm. Instead, it says more about the inability to obtain credit.
--Not a K&E Associate

anyone know anything about Mayer's bonuses? I know they don't announce individual bonuses until February, but they usually (past few years at least) made an announcement about bonus structure in December. I heard from someone there that at the past two associate meetings held by management, they were told that the firm "expected" to pay the same bonus structure this year as last year.

Whatever. 1/2 the 2 years got an above-market bonus. Some by a good deal. It's not clear how the other half did, though I'm sure many were below-market and not at-market. Otherwise, they would've publicized it. Upper classes made out better too. Regardless, K & E New York is a great place to work. Can't speak to the Chicago office. But I get mixed reviews from friends.

212 obviously knows nothing about Kirkland and credit.

The firm is having another good year, and it's only paying these bonuses because they"re market (and NOT because they can't afford to pay more).

210 -- yes.

46 - yes, Skadden's bonuses are the same in all US offices (not sure about offices overseas).

216 -- are the callers leaving messages for those not in the office?

Anyone know when the bonuses are supposed to hit accounts?

To answer a few questions -

Chicago has been getting calls. Myself and some others have, at least, obviously I can't speak for the whole office. Also, I don't think the tipster's math is off. 2400 hours got less than $10k above what someone billing 2000 hours, not $30k. And as for supply/demand arguments for CHI/NY, well, NY has ALWAYS been the higher paying market, yet K&E always paid the offices the same. Except this year. Merry f_cking Christmas.

We might not all head over to Skadden. But we might head to Sidley (which pays the same bonus, with a 1 tier partnership, instead of 2 tiers). Or we might go in house, which doesn't pay as much (though that gap is considerably less today, if you include things like 401k matching and stock options), but definitely has less BS. Point is, K&E became a less desirable place to work in Chicago today, and it's ludicrous to think that won't have an effect on retention & recruiting.

-- K&E Chicago Associate.

127 -- How do these numbers you posted correlated with hours?

198 - whatever makes you sleep at night.

219 - good luck moving to Sidley or anywhere else when nobody is hiring at the moment.

220 - are you slow? have you not read other comments? obviously, more hours didn't get you much more pay.

213, if that is the case then wouldn't that mean that anyone who bills more than 2100 hours will beat Cravath, and those who bill 2300 or 2400 will probably be in the neighborhood of Skadden or higher? I don't remember what Mayer's bonus grid looks like.

Put another way, Mayer associates that survived the layoffs and made their hours this year would probably be happy with that given the way the rest of the market has broken, especially since they didn't get a bump last year in the bonus (maybe they did in the NY office because that was the market there, but I believe they left the same structure in place outside of NY). Of course, the question is how many people actually make their hours or get them to a level to get a higher bonus - I'd guess litigation (esepcially bankruptcy) and IP would probably be the winners like most other firms right now.

And as someone said, with Kirkland, Skadden and Sidley all giving normal class raises, there's almost no way Mayer doesn't give the raises. They primarily consider Sidley and Latham their competition for the same associates, so one would think they'd take this opportunity to distinguish themselves from Latham and make sure they don't lose ground to Sidley.

Anyone think it's weird that Kirkland is doing this now? Honestly, how many people are actually in the office today?

198 - whatever makes you sleep at night.

219 - many companies have stopped their 401K match and good luck finding an inhouse legal job; those are the first to be cut from the budget

219 - many companies have stopped their 401K match and good luck finding an inhouse legal job; those are the first to be cut from the budget

K&E Chicago - Class of '07

1: Less than 2000 hours - 15K
1: 2700 hrs 30.5K

Bonuses started at 1700 hours for Class of '07 but not sure what they got.

As others have alluded to, I'm glad to have my job (for now), get a bonus at all, and to still be getting our raise starting 1/1/09. Lots better off than other people!

THANK YOU FOR STOPPING THE RIDICULOUS "HALF-SKADDEN" TERM THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ENDED WEEKS AGO

HATING ON ISLAM IS NOT RACIST BECAUSE ISLAM ISNT A RACE

THIS BLOG SUCKS NOW. PLEASE REMOVE MYSTTTAL

K & E's bonuses are terrible. For those who were on the fence about leaving because of various Kirkland garbage (grouchy/dumb partners, poor management decisions, extraordinarily low liklihood of making partner) these bonuses should push them across the line. Why work here under these conditions and doing these hours when you can go to a mid-sized firm, have a higher liklihood of partnership, and have a compensation package that is only about 10-20% lower than here.

226/228 --

I'll be sure to let all these headhunters know that the jobs they are parroting aren't really available. There's plenty out there.

196 -- YOU NAILED IT!!! Truly elite firms like Wachtell, Cravath, Williams & Connolly don't give 2 sh*ts what other firms do. They're gonna pay what they think is right, and everyone else be damned, b/c they don't compete with thes rest of the idiotic "vault" firms for associates. Any associate who chooses latham or dpw over cravath b/c he heard it was more "laid back" is not the type of person cravath wants anyway. and anyone who chooses simpson over williams & connolly b/c simpson has a higher "ppp" is also someone that w&c doesn't want anyway.

these firms are leaders, not followers.

232 - if Cravath didn't give a shit what other firms did they wouldn't have rushed to announce their craptastic bonii the DAY AFTER Skadden announced in a (now successful) attempt to shift the market.

218:

The partner who called me said that my bonus would be paid on December 31.

- 216

I don't much mind the low bonuses this year. The economy sucks and K&E isn't laying people off, which is probably enough to be thankful for.

What I do mind is FINDING OUT ABOUT IT FROM A F***ING INTERNET TABLOID.

-K&E DC

Someone please answer my question of when K&E bonuses will hit accounts. I'd like to buy a couple $5 footlongs with my loot and wanted to know when I can expect the funds to be there.

215,

You're right, I really don't know anything about Kirkland. And I'm NOT saying that Kirkland didn't have a good year. Just the opposite in fact. They're probably doing fine in terms of the amount of work they're getting. But their clients aren't paying them because, you got it, they can't get the credit. And Kirkland can't pay bonuses by borrowing money based on anticipated legal fees (for work they've ALREADY done) because, you got it, they can't get the credit. How viciously circular.

Never thought I'd be defending K&E.

233, you are an idiot. Cravath announced when they did because that's when they announced. Sure, they knew that what it would do would run the game, but that's becuase that is what Cravath knows it can do. What I am talking about is that their bonus decision had nothing to do with other firms. They knew what they wanted to pay, and paid it. Just because they knew everyone would follow them like little bitches looking for the big dog to set the market, doesn't mean they "care" about what the other firms do. Cravath survived the Great Depression for a reason, they know how to make it in the world, recession, Depression, whatever. That's why the firm deserves every bit of respect it gets.

MILBANK FROZE SALARIES!!!!! ELLIE, SPREAD THE WORD!

MILBANK FROZE SALARIES!!!!! ELLIE, SPREAD THE WORD!

MILBANK FROZE SALARIES!!!!! ELLIE, SPREAD THE WORD!

MILBANK FROZE SALARIES!!!!! ELLIE, SPREAD THE WORD!

MILBANK FROZE SALARIES!!!!! ELLIE, SPREAD THE WORD!

238 - I wish you luck in your insurance defense career. don't forget, the world needs ditch diggers too.

MILBANK JUST FROZE SALARIES! PEOPLE ARE NOT HAPPY.

And all you douchebags using "bonii" need to stop. Just because it's technically correct because that is how the term is conjugated in Latin, doesn't mean you dont sound like a pretentious asshole when you use it. Just say it, bonuses. Big deal. It's not correct, but it sounds better. That's it.
Oh and 233, do you perhaps work at Skadden, because then that's the only way you can call Cravath's bonusES "craptastic." Which, they are not. First year makes $180,000 total is in NO WAY craptastic. And if you are at Skadden, don't fool yourself by thinking Uncle Skadden is benevolent. SKadden came out first, and I am SURE they regret it. Not because they can't afford it. They can. Not because it's going to sink the firm. IT's not. But because partners are all greedy, and if they knew by waiting two days they would save tens of millions of dollars, they would have done so. There is NO arguing with that.

All your bonuses are belong to us!!!!

K&E DC is on par with Chicago. The bottom line is that our office has grown too quickly. In 2006 Kirkland DC was averaging 2250 hours with 150 attorneys. Now we are 190 attorneys averaging just over 2000 and occupying an additional half floor. Revenues may have grown but costs rose significantly more. I believe aggressive associate thinning has been occurring and will continue until Associate hours start averaging 2200-2250 again.

244, congratulations on once again making zero sense.

246, first, "bonus" is declined, not conjugated. Second, all you tools using "bonii" obviously never cracked a Latin book. It's "boni." I don't know where you get the second, superfluous "i." Third, while this is a nice grammar lesson, it's entirely toolish for you to say "boni" in English.

When should we start the K&E deathwatch?

are we really getting all worked up over what first thru third year associates make at kirkland? do they even have midlevel associates or is everyone from class of 2005 a partner? if so, the whole associate bonus inquiry makes no sense unless we know what senior partners (6th year associates and up) are getting....

I'm curious about 212's comment. Does anyone know whether firms use revolving credit facilities to pay bonuses or do they instead take out a separate loan for bonuses? Or neither?

252 -

You make non-equity at K&E after 6 years. So no, everyone from the class of 2005 is not a partner.

250, congrats on being even more of a douchebag than people who say bonii...
and on being totally superfluous as to the point--like I said in my post.. BONUSES.

248, thanks. How did you find out?

FREE MARKET SYSTEM MY ASS

Why wouldn't we (K&E) have an associates committee to ensure greater communication and have a route that associates can take with issues?

I billed in the 2300 range at K&E in Chicago and got more than every NYC Biglaw associate my year except at Skadden and Wachtell.

To the Skadden trolls, you got lucky this year. That's it. Every other year Skadden has screwed associates on bonuses, and it tried to do so again this year when it thought it was setting an aggressive floor. But then Cravath happened (see below). So telling yourself that your firm is better or stronger is delusional (as much so as ppl saying they are idiots). They are overpaying this year, to your benefit, because they are the victim of poor timing. Nothing more, nothing less.

To the Cravath trolls: suggesting that your firm should be revered because they led the race into the toilet is laughable. That's like the CWT trolls saying their firm was ahead of the curve because they had to lay people off before anyone else. Cravath did what it did because it had to, because it is in bad shape right now. Its clients have been devastated or no longer exist, and the work is not coming back for a long time, if ever. And they massively overhired for this summer. Spin it however you want, CSM paid those bonuses because they reflect the firm's present position. Not exactly something I would crow about.

Many firms (K&E, Weil, Debevoise etc) are having decent years but are paying bonuses on roughly the CSM level because they don't give out money if they don't have to, and they feel that they have adequate coverage from Cravath et al. It's because they are opportunistic, not because they respect or are being led by Cravath.

167: NO WAI, you got half above class and half with class ratings? too bad that still makes you with class for bonus purposes.

2008 was a great year and the firm could've paid skadden level. the partners cheaped out. that said, would i jump ship to skadden for the extra dough if i could? no. the people in the ny office are great and i wouldn't work at any other law firm in ny. this sentiment is shared by a lot of associates.

also, if ny is on a higher grid than chi, all i can say is SUCK IT. you douches in the chicago office are the ones who gave k&e the rep as a sweatshop. it's telling how much hate there is toward K&E in chicago.

there is no spoon

7 - I notice whenever ATL runs something about K&E, there is always someone who sticks up for K&E in a very strident manner. Their tone of voice and style is always the same. To me, it is very obvious that K&E has appointed someone to patrol blogs like this and counter anything anyone might say that is even remotely negative.

any ny associates get their #s yet? i'm already gone on vacay and wondering if i should just call up any partner i work with (do they all have a list)?

"good luck finding an inhouse legal job; those are the first to be cut from the budget"

Actually bad times bring increased litigation, only in-house transactional lawyers might be in trouble.

The people who racked up a huge bonus are pretty happy...Merit-based compensation is the best. The only issue is how much hours factors into the lower bonuses as opposed to work quality.

This whole 'complicated grid' is pretty obscure. It's pretty shitty if corporate associates who did great work but had no hours for reasons totally outside their control got universally fucked. If people who turned in average or subpar work during these tough times take a hit in bonuses, there's nothing wrong with that. K & E pays even subpar performers really well in boom times.

261 - Pls come to Chicago so I can punch you in the face.

246 - I am at Skadden and Cravath's bonuses are craptastic. I don't really care what Skadden's motives are, I'm just glad they paid what they paid. Btw, I like how you rounded the 1st year total comp for Cravath/market to make it look better ... very nice. Stop apologizing for your firm.

259 - Even if you want to play all-knowing law firm expert, you need to stop apologizing for your firm. So, I got lucky this year. Great. By your own argument (and the general board consensus), K&E consciously decided to pay you less than they could or than some of your peers (me). You should be pissed, not defending them.

What has happened to this board? This is a forumn that people should use to demand more for their firms -- for all of our sake (for example, see all the posts about Latham pounding its associates in the ass). Remember when "greedy associates" bitched about their salaries and firms listened and then eventually reacted? Those associates were not apologizing for their firms.

For this year -- K&E equity partners will make between $87K to $90K per share (granted, next years share value will likely suffer). A first year equity partner receives 15.5 shares, or $1,395,000.00. The most shares a partner can have is 80 (i.e., Sprayregan and Hammes) or $7,200,000.00. When a 10th year (or 11th or 12th) becomes an equity partner, their salary usually tripples. That is the biggest problem with the Kirkland model. When Jack Levine was at the peak of his career (and making the most money he had ever made), the highest paid Kirkland equity partner made NO MORE THAN 2 TIMES WHAT THE LOWEST PAID EQUITY PARTNER MADE. Now, the highest paid equity partnet makes nearly 6 times what the lowest equity partner makes. Think about that for a moment, then think about how little associates make in relation to the equity partners. I love working here, but the equity partners need to give up more to associates and non-equity partners -- most of them were in the right place at the right time, are very young, and greedy.

Bravo, 268, my sentiments exactly. You apologists make me sick. I wish we could revive the Greedy Associates forum.

263,

I don't patrol the blogs. I just noticed misinformation and sought to correct it. Sorry to disappoint you.

- 7

268 -- i think everyone was pissed when cravath announced. now it's just more resignation after all the other firms fell in line. being pissed or outraged gets stale after awhile. bottom line is i like working at k&e and feel secure about my job. that counts for a lot in this economy.

208: "Kirkland competes with Skadden in NYC, but not so much in Chicago (I know Skadden has a Chicago office, but its presence in the city does not threaten K&E)."

First, K&E does not compete with any of the top firms in NYC. Second, K&E's corporate consists of mid market PE funds. How are those funds doing, broheim? I would not be so confident in your presence in this city anymore. In fact, it appears, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Go ask Jack Levin which firm in Chicago probably pulled in the most revenue in 2008 and then post your apologies. It sure as hell wasnt Squire Sanders.

7= Steve R., K&E Chi

274,

Guess again.

- 7

7= Scott F.

276,

Guess again.

- 7

7 equals Kevin?!? Finally?!?1 Kevin, did you get your letter yet?

7 = debora de hoyos

7 = douchy mcdouchtard

kevin is gone soon, so he wouldnt care enough to post.

7 = 276

280=mike D.

"The kid said, "Get ready cause this ain't funny
My name's Mike D. and I'm about to get money."
Pulled out the jammy aimed it at the sky
He yelled, "Stick 'em up!" and let two fly
Hands went up and people hit the floor
He wasted two kids that ran for the door
"I'm Mike D. and I get respect
Your cash and your jewelry is what I expect"
M.C.A. was with it and he's my ace
So I grabbed the piano player and I punched him in the face
The piano player's out the music stopped
His boy had beef and he got dropped
Mike D. grabbed the money M.C.A. snatched the gold
I grabbed two girlies and a beer that's cold."

269 - how would you know the share value (which won't be known until Feb 09)? You're obviously not a K&E'er since you don't even know the starting share value for a first year SP.

285 -- correct, I was wrong. 12.5 shares is the base. During our p-ner meeting, the range was given. You know because you were there too. I can tell by your IP address.

--285

285 -- correct, I was wrong. 12.5 shares is the base. During our p-ner meeting, the range was given. You know because you were there too. I can tell by your IP address.

--269

Dibs on the missing 2.5 shares.

It's not about being apologists, it's about setting the record straight considering Elie is the most biased blog writer ever. Cravath did what it did, and say what you want about it, but they aren't the demons everyone is making them out to be.

It's surprising that no one, not even the Elie haters, said anything about his comment @ 25 re: K&E's implied threat of 2009 layoffs being "funny". I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and think that he meant "funny" = suspicious or odd, as opposed to "funny" = ha, ha. However, can't give sh*t to a witless HLS grad who can't get beyond grade school English. Sorry, dude, but it's damn painful.

K&E kids in offices other than NY.

"No layoffs in the foreseeable future if you are performing at the top of the market."

That quote was in response to a question asked about layoffs. If your office did not ask about layoffs, you likely did not get the quote.

I am a NY KE associate. I have been at KE for a while (ie not a stub year). I am honestly shocked every year with how little information is conveyed at this meeting. It is incomprehensible how it is a one sided conversations. Partners believe that they have open doors, and have a great relationship with associates. Yet, surprisingly, KE always rates low for mid-level satisfaction.

The way to espouse happiness, it is important to not just pay us well (using the meritocratic way), but also to give us information, make us feel part of a conversation. KE partners are smart, they know the information was not given in a way to understand the curve completely.

Something must change, or wait...it won't change. Ppl will come to KE after hearing stories of its bonus, and leave after a few years great for the resume...having gotten a sense of not being satisfied with the experience because of the lack of communication.

Sad. I do like KE, except for how we are treated.

Did anyone in the K&E Chicago office not get a bonus call today?

261 was sucking my cock last night and was taking it up the ass the night before, he's a good bitch

"No layoffs in the foreseeable future if you are performing at the top of the market." This means that KE is openly admitting that they have and will fire associates not "performing at the top of the market," also known as billing crazy hours in a market where that is pretty tough. Big bonuses or not, KE has been laying people off two years in a row and passing them off as "performanced-based layoffs." Total bull. The real bonus this year is not getting fired.

The title to this posting is very misleading, K&E paid 68-80% of associates above the Cravath scale. The bonus I received is more inline with the Skadden bonus structure. That said, though, I am still disappointed that the 'market' was based on Cravath, rather than firm performance, which I believe is as strong as any other firm if not better, given the diverse client base. I billed 2200-2300 hours, was rated above the class and received a bonus in the $50K range.

296 = tool.

295, do you actually work at K&E or do you just have some ax to grind with the firm for no particular reason?

K&E does have performance related firing every year, whether it's a good or bad year. as long as you're performing "with class," there's nothing to worry about. and "with class" is like getting average. those who are rated "below class" are those who have no business working here.

I think the real story about KE is the hour hoarding, particularly in certain practice areas.

299 is right. That is the real story.

Some 3rd-5th years in Chicago have been explicitly told that they aren't pushing down enough work to the first and second years.

Since a few people on here seem to have the wrong idea in Chicago I was told by a SP that there weren't going to be any headcount reductions or salary freezes. However we may see some cutbacks on perks.

As for bonuses, everyone I have talked to seems to be at or a little above Cracath with big billets and the few above class getting near Skadden.

That still puts us at tops in Chicago since Skadden has a tiny footprint here. We are still paid more than Sidley and with business being a bit slow we are even working less hours than they are.

300, that might be the case in Chicago, but in NYC Desmairis said that only "top performers" in the office were safe from "headcount reductions."

For the person who is worried about choosing K&E over Skadden, you are looking at this the wrong way.
Skadden made a huge miscalculation this year. This is going to cost them millions of dollars and it is going to cost them PPP (including dropping their PPP ranking by a few firms though that will be hard to figure out). So this is going to hurt their prestige. This will make their associates happier for a year, but it will not help very much with recruiting because future associates will not believe that Skadden will continue to pay more than the market. Skadden might get some benefit if they commit to a bonus amount now or state that they will double Cravath, but of course they aren't going to do that.
K&E, however, has once again, beat the market. True the market has more outliers than usual (e.g., Skadden, Jones Day, the hours based firms that are paying on Skadden scale, and of course Wachtel). But there clearly is a market and K&E beat it. So they have kept their bargain with their associates, they have done what they have done for the last many years in a row, and future recruits should believe that they have a better chance of making more money as an associate at K&E than at other biglaw shops.
Again, to reiterate, Skadden screwed up, their bonus was a sign of mismanagement not a sign of strength.

Oh, and another thing, this concept about not having money to actually pay the bonus because they can't get credit is a joke. If you understand anything about lawfirms you would know that they are swimming in cash at the end of the year. In December clients close books and settle up accounts. So December's pull is many times an average month's pull. A firm like K&E could pull in $50 million in cash in the last week of December alone. Maybe collections will be down this year, so K&E only pulls in $100 million in December, that is still plenty to write checks to associates. So actually having the cash flow to pay bonuses is never a problem.

I don't think hours hoarding is a real problem, although I do not doubt that first and second years feel that it is. I would feel that way too if i had nothing to do all day. I think most midlevels would be happy not to share work. But, speaking as a mid-level in the Chicago office, sometimes its easier to do something myself than it is to explain it to a first year. Mostly its just a habit. I was a junior associate not so long ago, so I am just used to doing the shit work myself and have not broken myself out of the habit yet. In a busier market I think mid-levels are probably forced out of that habit because they simply have too much on their plates. They must learn to delegate in order to survive. In a slower market, that doesn't happen because they don't necessarily need help.

302= Steve R., Chicago K&E SP

302=Ignorant Douchebag, K&E

All 305 of you sound like some of the most, shallow, greedy, egotistical, self-absorbed individuals on the face of the Earth. While children are dying of starvation, and wars are being waged...you are all worried about your crumbs.
Merry Christmas to all...

306, all you have to do is read any random post on any random topic here to realize why everybody hates lawyers. Only disgusting, self-absorbed assholes with no sense of humor visit this forum.

Thanks 307...
What does that say about us?
I had planned on checking out for good!
But it gives me way too much comedic material !
God Bless America!!!

Thanks 307...
What does that say about us?
I had planned on checking out for good!
But it gives me way too much comedic material !
God Bless America!!!

Folks really need to keep things in perspective right now.

I understand the shock and disappointment that many associates who made their hours (or even billed more) are feeling. Same or more work for less bonus money. It f*cking sucks. And, truth be told, a substantial part of lower bonuses does have a lot to do with preserving profits per partner.

But let's get here, folks...

Business is down SUBSTANTIALLY. Bankruptcy and litigation (unless you are at Weil) did NOT pick up enough in 2008 to make up for the losses from corporate work.

Many of us are also getting paid $160,000, without any bonus. That is 5 to 6 times more than the median salary in this country. Sure, you might argue "Oh I have student loans to repay." So, just because we made the choice to go into debt, we're suddenly entitled to make a certain amount so you can repay it back? Wow...really good logic there folks. Sure, we may have only taken on the debt with the expectation that we would be making a certain amount of money, but that doesn't equate to an entitlement. That's the risk we took when we signed the dotted line on those loan applications.

And finally, many of us STILL HAVE JOBS. Half a MILLION people got laid off last month, including some of your fellow, hard working attorneys. What do you think is going through their minds right now, "Oh gee, no way would I take a BigLaw job now if one was available for the taking...they paid much lower bonuses this year!" No way!

To the extent that bonuses are down to preserve profits per partner, we ought to be a bit jaded and offended. But to the extent it was done because the money for it was NOT THERE, seriously folks, be grateful for what we do have and did get...

310: Correction "let's get real folks"

Watching that writing man...

K&E Partners' pay will not be down significantly. Our billings were high. That is the reason we have serious issues with our management committee. The bonus pool was kept low at the price of hard work that associates gave.

Why would a summer associate choose to be a bankruptcy associate when he graduates law school? So that he can make 60k as a top end bonus after billing 3000+ hours at K&E? Ha...

When all other groups in their respective good years make 100+ or 120+ if they bill 3000+ hours...its a bit ridiculous.

I know for a fact a few bankruptcy associates at K&E that will be switching out very shortly.

310 = 59. I can't even count all the mistakes in there.

-81 (3L who will soon be fixing your dumbass mistakes if you work at Kirkland... and I hope you don't.)

Anyone who thinks that associates should be thankful for slashed bonuses while partners retain their pay are exactly the type of scared whipped puppies it takes to make a law firm run. Thank you future non-equity partners!

Uhmm, partners will be taking home less money this year than last year. As a percentage, I bet the bonus "cut" (which works out to about 10% less overall pay than you would have made with a full (not counting special, which I hope no one has been expecting) bonus) is going to be about the same amount as PPP is down at most firms. And at a lot of firms, PPP for 2008 is going to be down a lot more than 10%. So yes, keeping bonuses low is going to save PPP, but it isn't going to be enough to allow K&E to have PPP in 2008 as high as it was in 2007.

To be clear, Kirkland's "market or above" bonuses started at 2100 hours. Note that most of the NYC firms that paid the Cravath market bonuses paid them to all associates, regardless of hours. Associates that made their 2000 hour requirement and received a "with the class" rating received below market bonuses. Further, the firm made no assertion that the bonuses were based on the firm's performance. It was stated that the bonuses were in line with the bonuses being paid in NYC.