Associate Bonus Watch: O’Melveny Makes It Rain, Baby
(At least outside New York. For 1950+ hours.)
Update (3:30 PM): Please note that this post has been revised in various respects since its original publication. The situation is fluid and we are investigating further. Thanks.
It’s moving day. Time for the elite firms to separate themselves from everybody else.
Multiple tipsters inform us that O’Melveny & Myers associates, in California and in Washington, DC, received voicemails today confirming that first year associate bonuses would be… $27,500. The bonus scale for OMM, in CA and DC, is believed to look like this:
2007 - 27,500
2006 - 30,000
2005 - 32,500
2004 - 35,000
2003 - 37,500
2002 - 40,000
2001 and 2000 - 45,000
A tipster adds, “Everyone is also eligible for additional bonus amounts on top of that based on hours and performance.”
We understand that OMM traditionally makes these announcements over voicemail. Bonuses will be paid on December 31st, with an official memo following in January. Oh, and just for good measure, class appropriate pay raises will proceed as planned. Eat your heart out, Latham.
Update (3:30 PM): It appears that these California and D.C. bonus levels are subject to a minimum hours requirement of 1950. In addition, it seems that O’Melveny’s New York office is on the Cravath scale.
Update (3:45 PM): Associate editor Kashmir Hill just spoke by phone with an O’Melveny spokesperson. The spokesperson confirmed that OMM’s California and DC offices are paying bonuses to associates that are higher than OMM in New York.
“For some time, we have set bonus levels at a competitive rate for local markets,” she said. And as ATL readers know, this year the local market in New York is weak in terms of bonuses. The OMM rep pointed out that last year New York bonuses were higher than non-NYC bonuses.
In addition, the spokesperson added, the California and DC bonus scales are subject to a minimum hours requirement of 1950. Bonuses in New York are not subject to such a minimum (although “hours and merit are taken into account,” according to OMM).
More after the jump.
Now, let’s say you’re an associate at Half-Skadden or Latham? How do you feel now?
Okay, don’t answer that. Today, if the first time in weeks, is a time for joy. Someone, somewhere is getting a piece of the profits pie, and that is a good thing.
Because the thing about entitlement is this: some people are “entitled” to certain things. In this case, associates who worked hard at the very best law firms in the country are entitled to share in the profits they generate. You simply can’t give out a bonus to a senior associate at one firm that is smaller than the bonus given to first years a peer firms, and expect everybody to just be “thankful that they have a job.”
Well done OMM. Now there is a clear separation among top firms. S&C, are you a contender or a pretender?
(292) Comments
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Mad Furst!!! Why are we so competitive???!!!!
Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiirst!
slather atl with bonus memos, make everyone forget you have horrible judgment! yayyyy
Foyst!
1st
First
FIRST!!!
Are their bonuses based on hours?
First
last!
FIRST!!!
shae in profits. proof it baby proof it
shae in profits. proof it baby proof it
I hate reading Elie's commentary.
FIRST to say blown out of proportion. A "clear sepEation among top firms"? Really man? SPELL CHECK
How do you "shae" in the profits? Jesus. How did you ever get a job Elie?
S&C won't diverge from CSM and DPW. If it does, CSM and DPW will revise their bonuses and match S&C, so there's really no incentive for S&C to join Skadden.
I spelled his misspelled word incorrectly. Awesome.
- 14
First to move to OMM
8 - The bonus structure is a class bonus (eligible if make hours) with the chance to receive additional bumps for performance or hours.
Shae what?
SPELLCHECK for goodness sake!!!
"Now there is a clear seperation "
I feel entitled to not read this stuff if you can't be bothered to spell check.
Why should he proof when we do it for him? Most errors are caught, and then fixed, in about 10-20 minutes.
Skadden > OMM > The Rest
Latham is so TTT
Could not agree more:
"You simply can't give out a bonus to a senior associate at one firm that is smaller than the bonus given to first years a peer firms, and expect everybody to just be "thankful that they have a job.""
Really? Things really are topsy turvy in this economy.
"piece of the profits pie."
A food reference!
Welcome back, tubby!
the people on this site are complete jerkoffs. would you rather get the news a day later? you're an immature bunch of idiots who give lawyers a bad name. if you hate elie and his commentary so much, go to a different website. idiots.
what a difference a year makes!
um, that's wrong -- the bonuses are half-skadden. the good news is that OMM is raising salaries.
NY to profit SHAE-ING!
MysTTTal.
Insiders report that OMM bonuses are on Cravath scale, not the one made up in this post.
um, that's wrong -- the bonuses are half-skadden. the good news is that OMM is raising salaries.
THEN STOP READING THE WEBSITE IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE POSTINGS.
Insiders report that OMM bonuses are on Cravath scale, not the one made up in this post.
NY to profit SHAE-ING!
MysTTTal.
um, check your sources -- this info is wrong. Bonuses are half-Skadden -- the good news is OMM is not freezing salaries.
29 -- how freaking long does it take to check spelling? It takes you an entire day? Seriously?
um, check your sources -- this info is wrong. Bonuses are half-Skadden -- the good news is OMM is not freezing salaries.
um, check your sources -- this info is wrong. Bonuses are half-Skadden -- the good news is OMM is not freezing salaries.
um, check your sources -- this info is wrong. Bonuses are half-Skadden -- the good news is OMM is not freezing salaries.
FIRST to say good scoop of fake news.
This is why you are not a real journalist.
SAVED BY ZERO!!! SAVED BY ZERO!!!
I call shenanigans!
29- I don't work at O'melvaney so when I get the information is completely arbitrary.
OMM NY bonuses are on Cravath scale. Other offices get more.
29 -- how freaking long does it take to check spelling? It takes you an entire day? Seriously?
FIRST to say good scoop of fake news.
This is why you are not a real journalist.
You idiots...OMM DC and CA are not half-Skadden...OMM NY is half-Skadden...it sucks to be stuck in NY, but the post is right for the majority of domestic OMM offices
Mystal, you find new ways to establish your idiocy. It's $17,500, just like everywhere else. Somebody typed "2" and you ran with it. And there won't be a memo; everybody but you knows OMM only sends out the voicemail.
Geez, give up this gig already, for all of our sakes.
sepAration, not seperation, you complete fool. why did lat hire a poorly spelling 7th grader to run this stupid blog?
Need siren for good firms - maybe different logos too. Grinch for all half-skaddens, money-bag for firms above half-skadden, and then scrooge mcduck into a pile of money for full skadden (a woo oo)
You idiots, the story is not all wrong. OMM NY is half-Skadden...OMM DC and CA are full bonuses.
omm ny on cravath scale; omm non-ny on higher scale
Prediction: real memo will surface. Elie will have egg on his face, and will post some sort of correction that doesn't in any way acknowledge how stupid it was to post this without verifying sources. People will bitch. The earth will keep spinning. Lather, rinse, repeat.
What the hell is the point of posting this without a copy of the actual memo? Has Elie not noticed that someone tends to fire the thing off to ATL within 20 minutes of its actual release when announcements are really delivered? Duh, duh and duh.
Need siren for good firms - maybe different logos too. Grinch for all half-skaddens, money-bag for firms above half-skadden, and then scrooge mcduck into a pile of money for full skadden (a woo oo)
36: Can't speak for OMM NY, but for CA and DC, the reported range ($27,500 for first years, $2,500 class year jumps) is correct.
39--how difficult is it for you and all the other haters on this site to realize that the whole point to blogging is so that you don't have to work in an office with jerks looking over your shoulder and expecting everything to be perfect. other bloggers on this site and others (and on news web pages) routinely make grammatical and spelling errors, but i don't see you or any of the other idiots on here cluttering their comments sections with complaints.
The confusion is caused by the fact that OMM DC/CA do things differently then OMM NY. I believe this memo is based on what OMM DC/CA are doing.
56 - the real memo doesn't come until January...so we'll have to wait to see, but the voicemails concerning full bonus and no salary freeze in OMM DC and CA are correct
Do you guys just sit around in anticipation of grammar/spelling errors? I've seen some dumbass commentary on blogs before but you people are in a class of your own.
Why not just start a blog about the blog since you really don't have anything else of value to contribute.
59- I think the point is more that Lat's errors were not remotely as bad as Elie. If Lat could do it, why can't Elie?
first
Elie please verify what commenters are saying about OMM NY - can't stand the suspense!
Are we now going to call O'Melveny Hlf-Skadden + 10?
Don't get me wrong, as a BIGLAW associate I'm glad to see OMM bucking the Cravath trend, but from a business perspective this is a dumb decision.
First!
HAHA
Batches
--OMM DC Midlevel
Are we now going to call O'Melveny Half-Skadden + 10?
THIS IS COMPLETELY WRONG. ASK ANYONE WHO WORKS AT OMM.
THIS IS JUST LIKE DELIVERANCE
OMM = THE CRAZY REDNECK
LATHAM = DUDE WHO SQUEALS LIKE A PIG
wow, the new york office has been treated like the wicked stepchild of OMM for some time now, but this is low.
... my voicemail said $17,500.
Where's this "profits pie" you speak of?
-Mr. Fried
"...associates who worked hard at the very best law firms in the country are entitled to share in the profits they generate. "
NO-- that is what partners are entitled to. (Hinit: That's why they call them "partnerships.")
WHERE IS S&C? QUINN EMANUEL? MUNGER?
wait, didn't OMM fire about 40 people this year? of course there's extra money floating around for bonuses.
There is Skadden, 78.5/100 Skadden (OMM), and 1/2 Skadden (CSM and crew)
wait, didn't OMM fire about 40 people this year? of course there's extra money floating around for bonuses.
First!
If NYC really just got a $10,000 shaft, it's time for associates, both incoming and current, to start finding other locations. Its like asking somone to go work in Tokyo, Moscow, or London without a COLA.
First!
67: Disagree
Like (most) everyone else, OMM is making cuts where it is hurting: NY.
It's a sensible business decision also to advertise that your past conservative moves (see reaction to last year's OMM bonus memo) were smart ones.
wait, didn't OMM fire about 40 people this year? of course there's extra money floating around for bonuses.
A whale of a bad post from a bad whale.
A whale of a bad post from a bad whale. Fire Elie, because he won't harpoon himself.
79: It's called trimming the fat. And it needed to happen. This ain't bean bag.
Wow, so the NY firms are now paying less than DC?
OMM NY assocs - are you sending tips to ATL? They may not get to the bottom of this otherwise
Are we now going to call OMM Half-Skadden + 10?
this is great news. the class bonus amounts are solid, and those who billed substantially above 1950 are likely to get rewarded with significant bumps. it would not surpise me if there are some six figure bonuses in the senior classes.
NYC is for suckers
Is this going to be the post that pushes it over the edge and gets ATL a new EIC?
Wow, so if commenters are correct, bonuses were HIGHER in non-NY offices than in NY offices? Ouch.
DEAR OMM NY,
I AM SENDING OUT MY RESUME TODAY. GOODBYE NY. I GUESS THIS IS A SATELLITE OFFICE AFTERALL.
THANKS
Latham has this thing and it's F#8@ing stupid.
How many of these firms pay the bonus ONLY if hours are met?
How many of these firms pay the bonus ONLY if hours are met?
OMM will be closing NY office (or downsizing its associate population by 50%). no layoffs, just a major slap in the face and everyone is heading for the exits. stay classy, OMM.
How many of these firms pay the bonus ONLY if hours are met?
73 -- isn't OMM NY a sinking ship?
Nice timing, OMM. I had almost talked myself into my own bullshit about my salary freeze. I doff my cap.
NYC PWNED!
Getting paid is a forte. Each and every day, true OMM player way. I can't get it out of my mind (what) I think about my bomb bonus all the time (what what).
I like the way you work it. No diggity. OMM backed it up [Repeat 3x].
THIS IS COMPLETELY WRONG. ASK ANYONE WHO WORKS AT OMM.
what about paul hastings?
Wow, OMM, who woulda thunk it? This is almost as shocking as what Latham pulled, but oh so much sweeter. Hate to be at Latham LA today!
OMM CA and DC, thank you!!
OMM - the worm has definitely turned for you, my friends.
Wow, so the NY firms are now paying less than DC?
62 - No need to start a blog about the blog when you comment on the blog right here on the blog.
OMM is just trying to keep pace with the big O!
Yes, 109, why wouldn't they? Not much work to do in NYC anymore.
Hey 95 -- let me see if I've got this right, you're getting the same bonus as Cravath, DPW, Simpson and about a dozen other firms; you're getting a class bump (unlike LW); but you're leaving because someone in LA will make $10-20K? Brilliant -- with thinking like that I'm sure the firm won't miss you. BTW, where exactly is it you're going?
This is wrong. Does anyone check their facts??
97 - I'm wondering the same thing. How many corporate and real estate associates made (anything close to) hours for 2008? I'm guessing its approaching 0, which is likely what they're (and my) bonus will be.
Everyone better remember that 111 very well could be an Orrick FIRST YEAR who just got a $45,000 bonus.
Is anyone else actually buying the idea that OMM is now better than Cravath or Davis Polk? I mean seriously?
This is wrong. Does anyone check their facts??
Shae Stadium
113,
I'm going to my mom's house, obviously.
Duh.
Sincerely,
95
OMM a top firm LOL
Clearly they crunched the numbers and saw only a couple of people were going to make billables
Wow, if NYC is paying NUMERICALLY less than Cali or DC, then it's time to leave. NYC associates were already getting underpaid with COL and all, but this is too much if true.
Comment removed by moderator.
Wow, so if commenters are correct, bonuses were HIGHER in non-NY offices than in NY offices? Ouch.
115 (this is 97), same for me. Bonus would be ? IF I made my hours. But that's not happening.
Orrick > the rest
115 (this is 97), same for me. Bonus would be ? IF I made my hours. But that's not happening.
Reading this I wonder if maybe the structure is such:
OMM NYC: Guaranteed Half-Skadden bonuses for everyone.
OMM (other offices): Bigger bonuses, but only if you made hours. We all know what departments that means $0 for...
Wouldn't be the craziest system we've ever seen.
Orrick > the rest
I love the jealousy this inspires. Now everyone wants to find ways to make it sound like a bad thing that OMM announced this. NY got the bitch slap it deserves, both at OMM and at other offices. The fact that they are getting less is directly the result of them bringing in less. OMM had a good year, and is appropriately paying out a good bonus to those offices that earned it. The fact that OMM doesn't pay a bonus to those that don't make hours does not detract from the fact that they are fairly and appropriately compensating those that earned it. OMM just took a shit on your firm, so just accept it.
Does OMM do a lot of entertainment law work out of its LA office? If that's the case, then it shouldn't be a surprise that their west coast office is faring better.
116 - Orrick (at least NY) doesn't even do bonuses at all for first years, unlike every other firm that prorates them down.
Orrick lawyers who hit 1950 are going to make out like bandits this year, but I wouldn't count on the firm keeping bonuses so high on the 2009 schedule.
Word is S&C partners have reviewed and signed off on their memo. Don't know why it hasn't been sent out yet.
123 - Do your own research for your student note. I suffered through mine years ago, and have no desire to help you with yours. On the other hand, you could just be "acting" yourself.
132 = misinformed
134 - what does the word tell you about what's in the memos??
Elie's 3:30 correction!
Maybe NY offices (and bonuses) generally will be hit harder than other cities (Chicago, LA, DC, etc.) when this all plays out. Might make sense considereing NY offices are likely much more tied to wall street while other offices are likely more diversified and able to weather the storm?
Good for them. Class act.
Why the f would associates in a non-NY office get paid more than the associates in the NY office if they have the same hours? That doesn't make any sense. COL and actual hours of particular associates should matter.
Basically, OMM is saying since Wall St. collapsed NY is headed for the shitter so we can pay that office less.
This is not too surprising. OMM has a lot of white collar, commercial, IP litigation work in CA/DC. Those practices are somewhat countercyclical. OMM doesn't rise as high as NY firms when wall st goes up, but they don't fall as fast either when wall st goes down.
"We expected this. Skadden has announced that they will discontinue the 'special' bonuses from last year. Instead, they'll be giving out the 2006/2007 standard package. That should pretty much set the market."
-Elie Mystttal, Nov. 19, 2008
LOL @ Elie.
But beyond that, is it so unreasonable for a firm to expect over 1950 hours before paying out a bonus to someone?
You're not pulling your weight if you don't get at least that much (even 2100 would be a reasonable requirement) - poor economy or otherwise.
Hey MysTTTal:
Get off your fat ass and figure out the bonus situation over at CWT. NOW.
Uh oh--it's ON now.
143 -- but to his defense, everyone was saying that.
"Orrick > the rest"
Hahaha. I am sure all those folks Orrick laid off would beg to differ....
I have it on good authority that 7 Times Square is a cursed building
"Update (3:30 PM): It appears that these California and D.C. bonus levels are subject to a minimum hours requirement of 1950. In addition, it seems that O'Melveny's New York office is on the Cravath scale."
"Because the thing about entitlement is this: some people are "entitled" to certain things. In this case, associates who worked hard at the very best law firms in the country are entitled to share in the profits they generate. You simply can't give out a bonus to a senior associate at one firm that is smaller than the bonus given to first years a peer firms, and expect everybody to just be 'thankful that they have a job.'"
Entitlement? Um, no, sorry. No such thing. Associates are employees at will. That's no less true in Biglaw than it is anywhere else. No such thing as entitlement. Associates are paid what the market will bear.
Why would ANYONE go to Latham over OMM or GDC in LA now?
We don't make it rain. We changin' the game. What once came down, now goes goes up in flames.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybXc-2iEOTw
141, COL is completely irrelevant to how much you're paid. All that matters is the supply and demand of associates. For obvious reasons, the supply of associates in NYC is higher than usual.
If COL mattered, an oil worker in Alaska would be paid less than an oil worker in NYC. But supply and demand makes it the inverse.
I have it on good authority that 7 Times Square is a cursed building
"You simply can't give out a bonus to a senior associate at one firm that is smaller than the bonus given to first years a peer firms, and expect everybody to just be "thankful that they have a job.""
This is so obviously wrong. You can and you will. Especially after the January layoff bloodbath. It's really not that hard to figure out that supply now outstrips demand...really it's not Elie. It's just not.
OMM-NY got more than CA and DC when the NY market was rocking -- what comes around goes around
117 - Only idiots are saying OMM is 'better' than DPW or Cravath just because they have higher bonuses. Of course, it's just another type of idiocy to maintain that DPW or Cravath are 'better' than OMM because they have a higher Vault ranking.
141 -- Supply/Demand explains it. COL does not factor into a firm's compensation decisions, except insofar as that might lead associates to move to a new city. Right now, there appears to be an oversupply of associates in NYC. Accordingly, NYC compensation should stagnate or decline.
152- I can't think of any reason. Can I get a mulligan on that one?
Woohoo, bill in the top 1% of associates at OMM, get a not-quite-Skadden bonus that also lags behind similar billers at Orrick, K&E and others. Won't be any 1600 hour billers getting these amounts, or even half-Skadden, so who cares?
live by the NY bonus trends, die by it.
Last year NY market had special bonuses, and OMM NY followed suit. This year, Half-Skadden is NY market and OMM NY followed suit. It would be nice to have it both ways, but it's not happening.
OMM LA/DC is 27.5k for first years.
1. Hopefully this breaks the march to half-skadden for other firms
2. Why is NYC office getting screwed? Is the NYC actually the least profitable? Normally the NYC office (of a lot of firms, maybe not OMM) carries the firm (and bonuses for all offices) and sets the market. Now NYC sets the bottom and the rest of the offices dont bother carrying NYC?
HAHAHA. new york is in the shitter.
113 says, "Hey 95 -- let me see if I've got this right, you're getting the same bonus as Cravath, DPW, Simpson and about a dozen other firms; you're getting a class bump (unlike LW); but you're leaving because someone in LA will make $10-20K?"
In substance this makes sense: why should I care if someone elsewhere is making more as long as I'm matching the New York market, especially since, frankly, I didn't bill that much. But this announcement reinforces the feeling that OMM's upper management views the New York office as a cost center, not an engine of the firm or even a strategic necessity. It makes me nervous that the firm will be all too happy to swing the axe come review time.
Funny how NYC gets the shaft. Their associates face easily the highest COL (and worst QOL) and in most years, have the most billables.
live by the NY bonus trends, die by it.
Last year NY market had special bonuses, and OMM NY followed suit. This year, Half-Skadden is NY market and OMM NY followed suit. It would be nice to have it both ways, but it's not happening.
OMM LA/DC is 27.5k for first years.
Any word on Kirkland?
Update (3:45 PM): Associate editor Kashmir Hill just spoke by phone with an O'Melveny spokesperson. The spokesperson confirmed that OMM's California and DC offices are paying bonuses to associates that are higher than OMM in New York. "For some time, we have set bonus levels at a competitive rate for local markets," she said. And as ATL readers know, this year the "local market" in New York is weak in terms of bonuses. (The OMM rep pointed out that last year New York bonuses were higher than non-NYC bonuses.)"
In addition, the spokesperson added, the California and DC bonus scales are subject to a minimum hours requirement of 1950. Bonuses in New York are not subject to such a minimum (although "hours and merit are taken into account," according to this representative).
There is NO WAY that NY winds up paying less. S&C will at least match OMM CA/DC if not Skadden.
The red/blue siren only appears on your ATL page if your IP address is from DC or CA.
If you are from NY, no siren for this post.
good news for the 10 OMM associates not in NY who billed over 1950.
Ohhhhhhh here we go.
1. Count Layoffula, GO!
2. Where's that guy who does the "Cravath = Skadden/2 - sweet red website" math, because I need the new equation laid out.
165 - You have it right on the money. OMM NY is a cost center and they either need to step up or go home. Last year, when they got higher bonuses than the rest of the firm and got pro-rated bonuses even when the rest of the firm didn't, they were still a cost center. Hopefully this isn't a one time thing because of the market and OMM starts enforcing the idea that you either bring it or you're gone.
BAHAHAHAH...171 = post of the day!
O'Melveny would be a great name for a sugar cookie company.
Ohhhhhhh here we go.
1. Count Layoffula, GO!
2. Where's that guy who does the "Cravath = Skadden/2 - sweet red website" math, because I need the new equation laid out.
BAHAHAHAH...171 = post of the day!
155, that's for damn sure.
If the new regime says NY lawyers get paid less, than the system is broke as fuc&.
D.C. here I come.
When are the big D.C. firms going to announce? If they go higher than half-Skadden, these comments are going to get ugly.
I look forward to the meltdown.
Yep, OMM NY associates are getting their butt cheeks spread, sniffed at, and it sure as hell ain't a nose going up there....
"For some time, we have set bonus levels at a competitive rate for local markets,"
Good thing in America we can actually move to other states.
2009-the year of the NYC exodus
This is the problem with what Cravath started. It was bound to end with someone (well, lots of associates) feeling like they'd been had.
I blame Cravath for this.
176/178 -- why thank you. It's funny, 'cause it is probably true.
Sigh.
- 171, a sad New Yorker
Blood on the streets, my friends. A sign of the apocalypse.
Stock up on food and PS3s. You'll need it -- collecting unemployment checks.
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about when it was revealed on ATL that DC and LA associates were given larger bonuses than their NY counterparts. And then the world ended. Poof.
Every associate in NYC should remember that Evan Chesler violently pentrated their dirt road without even spitting on the rosebud.
It's not too late to right the ship, LW - you do realize that this will set the firm back a decade or more in terms of recruiting/prestige/etc., right?
It's not too late to right the ship, LW - you do realize that this will set the firm back a decade or more in terms of recruiting/prestige/etc., right?
183 is highly credited, though mainly for tax/COL/quality of life reasons.
These bonus cuts and pay freezes are nothing.
Imagine being this chick:
http://www.marieclaire.com/world/news/warren-buffett-granddaughter-nicole-buffett?src=syn&dom=yah_buzz&mag=mar&ha=1&kw=ist
SHAE THE LOVE PEOPLE!
MYSTTTAL IS NOT THAT BAD.
Ha ha ha....NYC is a TTT in decline!
btw...did I forget to mention...
ORRICK > the resTTT
By the way, did I forget to mention:
Orrick laid off a ton of folks recently?
Why was comment 123 taken OFF?!?!
Orrick laid off 40 in down practice areas...and hired 200+ last year in booming areas...what a shocking business model!
Why was comment 123 taken OFF?!?! What did it say??!?!?
Why was comment 123 taken OFF?!?! What did it say??!?!?
Why was comment 123 taken OFF?!?! What did it say??!?!?
Why was comment 123 taken OFF?!?! What did it say??!?!?
I believe Orrick also has minimum billables of 2100. Good luck getting that bonus.
Oh well. If you're in NYC, you're doing transactional work, which is slow right now. You'll boom in the boom times and bust in the bust times. No big deal.
This shows what I've been suspecting.
Latham is an outlier. They will set the market as much as Proskauer would set the market with their actions of canning new associates. Does anyone reallly think anyone would follow what Proskauer did and cut new associates?
Latham is like a "top tier" Proskauer, nothing but an outlier.
203 needs to check their facts...2000 hrs for Orrick standard bonus
163 -- OMM NY is a liability for OMM as a whole. The O'Sullivan merger never worked out and the NY office's been struggling to establish any meaningful presence. OMM NY absolutely did not deserve the "special bonus" last year, especially when the NY office is consistently the under-performing office year after year.
205- Magic 8 Ball says "Cannot predict now."
The fate of New York law firms and their ability to recruit top talent is now in the hands of W&C, Cov, Wilmer, Hogan and A&P.
If they go higher than top NYC firms, than the show is over folks. DC wins.
Wow, the price of oil just dropped to FREE.
Sweeeeet.
Guys at my high school used to shae chicks all the time. It was no big deal.
Guys at my high school used to shae chicks all the time. It was no big deal.
I guess SkaddenDC is not spinning out of control thanks to OMM NY.
Oh well.
Is big three in LA now GDC, OMM and PH? Has LW been relegated to TTT status?
Could I have included more abbreviations in this comment? AFAIK, I couldn't. HTH.
Kash to EIC
NY to $1.90!
I guess SkaddenDC is not spinning out of control thanks to OMM NY.
Oh well.
214 - It depends what Paul Hastings and Gibson do. Have we heard about either yet?
BITCH SPREAD THE BUTT CHEEKS SO I CAN SMELL THE JUICY INSIDES!
tyvmft, 214
207 - What does that even mean? How is the office a "liability"?
Orrick has a minimum billable of 2,000, which gets you about 80% of Full Skadden. The next 100 hours gets you the last 20% of Full Skadden (or about 10,000). Then you can, theoretically, do better based on merit and big time hours. That extra is hard to get even during the good times, but is probably going to be nearly impossible this year.
As someone who is looking like they will hit 2,100, I'm going to be laughing all the way to the bank at my Cravath counterparts. Glad you all have lockstep bonuses, but for productive associates like myself it is better to be at a firm that can and will reward me.
is that buttcheek line from a movie?
"Don't get me wrong, as a BIGLAW associate I'm glad to see OMM bucking the Cravath trend, but from a business perspective this is a dumb decision."
Agreed. This will really kill them in recruiting top talent. Oh, no wait; I mean it'll really help them.
They're so stupid.
First no siren, then there was a siren, and now no siren. What's going on here?
What is this shit? I'd quit if I were an OMM associate in NYC.
What is this shit? I'd quit if I were an OMM associate in NYC.
227: But where would you go?
227-
No one would care.
76-
Munger's bonuses are usually meager. As with Cravath, you get paid with prestige points for working there.
10
10 thousand
10 thousand pay cut
At Laaaaathaaaaam.
76: NY, LA, DC
NYC exodus!
228: To another firm, as soon as they start hiring laterals.
229: No, but they'd care if a whole bunch of people left.
- 227
Did Latham ding Elie at some point in the past? Why so much neener-neener towards LW?
Orrick's minimum billable is 1950 in CA, not 2000.
Orrick's minimum billable is 1950 in CA, not 2000.
235 - because LW just dropped the biggest bomb on associates' heads in the last 20 years.
NYC is TTT. Get ready for the return of the 70s glory days!! Buy your rat traps keep your glock loaded!
Dat OMM izz CRAZEEE!
Noo Yawk to wun-twenny-fahv!
Orrick has a minimum billable of 2,000, which gets you about 80% of Full Skadden. The next 100 hours gets you the last 20% of Full Skadden (or about 10,000). Then you can, theoretically, do better based on merit and big time hours. That extra is hard to get even during the good times, but is probably going to be nearly impossible this year.
As someone who is looking like they will hit 2,100, I'm going to be laughing all the way to the bank at my Cravath counterparts. Glad you all have lockstep bonuses, but for productive associates like myself it is better to be at a firm that can and will reward me.
No, 238, a salary freeze isn't the "biggest bomb" to be dropped "on associates' heads in the last 20 years." People are actually LOSING THEIR JOBS right now. Layoffs are happening all over the country, and at major firms. OMM laid off 40 associates a few months ago, including first years - and blamed it on their hours. But does Elie pepper every other post with all kinds of hate and nyah-nyah directed towards OMM? No. Today, they announce decent bonuses, and Elie can't get OMM's dick out of his mouth long enough to think through the past few months.
Whatever. This site used to be excellent; it is now utterly worthless.
241 - NO. Orrick has minimum billable of 1950. At 2000, you earn your first standard bonus, which is a set number for each year, starting with 2007 graduates (for this year).
242 - Give it one month, maybe two, and you'll see the exact same boot be given to people at Latham. As soon as reviews hit, the firings begin... That is, if Latham is still around at that point.
Anybody currently in D.C. happy with cost/quality of living there? I'm seriously ready to call it quits in new york.
242 - 40 associate layoffs? You're a dbag. Flame. You should be flogged.
LAYOFFS ARE MUCH WORSE THAN SALARY FREEZE. Assumptions that only lazy people get canned are incorrect. People with slow practice areas or that some dbag partner has an arbitrary problem with get leg go too. SALARY FREEZE IS AND REVERSIBLE and will be reversed once market pressures dictate. LAYOFFS SCREW PEOPLE MUCH HARDER.
242 - sorry, but the salary freeze is the biggest bomb in 20 years. Layoffs are nothing new.
218 -- PH raises salaries Feb.1 and gives bonuses in early March. They typically follow market. In years past, this meant Latham/GDC pay. OMM bonuses have been lower than PH and market in recent years. This year it should mean GDC/OMM pay, but anything is possible. I would expect an announcement re regular yearly pay increases in Jan. and bonuses in Feb.
235 - good stuff.
245: Stay in NY. Property values are way too high still here.
New Yorkers love to suck my cock....and apparently they like to take it in the ass also.
New Yorkers love to suck my cock....and apparently they like to take it in the ass also.
Did someone call me, the Glass Cock of Orrick? All I can say is that there are some who get the glass cock in the bone ass, and some who don't.
It's not a question of enough, pal. It's a Zero Sum game - somebody wins, somebody loses. Money itself isn't lost or made, it's simply, transferred - from one perception to another. Like magic.
255 is an example of someone who didn't spend enough time at the Pierian spring. Shame.
Can all the people who think this site (or Elie) is worthless and constantly complain stop visiting and commenting? You lose all credibility when 25% of the comments in every thread are dedicated to bashing this site (or Elie) and vowing to never visit it again.
Not too long ago, when Lat was editor, he used the phrase "comment clusterfuck" to describe a posting that generated over 100 comments. It was an irregularity back then. Now, with Elie, it's very common. So y'all might hate Elie, but I'm sure the owners of this site are more than happy to have you continually visit it to post your complaints. I'll bet this site is doing better than ever.
257 - what would they do during Con Law then?
s&c to $27,500!!!!
There is just no way NYC boni can be less than DC.
251,
You idiot! Don't we want more people to move here and buy to keep the propery values inflated?
To all NYC folk looking to come to DC:
C'mon down and buy, buy, buy!!!!!
Am I wrong to read into this move some resentment by OMM to the New York market in general? New York firms consistently representing the cream of the compensation crop, while California firms matched, at best. Now OMM has declared that Cali and DC associates are worth more, despite lower COL.
Should this do more to shame Cravath, et al. to up their bonuses to at least the OMM DC level than would have been the case had OMM put their NY office on par with OMM DC? As the landscape sets today, top notch legal talent should be looking west and leave NY out of consideration completely.
OMM has essentially laid all blame for low NYC bonuses at Cravath & Co.'s feet. And now firms like David Polk are looking at paying their DC offices bonuses below not only Skadden (which everyone seemed content to write off as having jumped the gun), but also a California upstart like OMM.
Big Firm NY partners might value their PPP over all else, but don't they have any pride? They'll really let OMM say, essentially, that the NY market is a lost cause and should be compensated comparatively less?
260: No, I'm still renting.
--251
Stay away, NYers, stay away.
261 and all of you others out there without a brain:
OMM has consistently followed market and paid bonuses differently in different markets. Last year they paid NY bonuses, including the special bonuses, to NY associates while keeping to non NY market bonuses for those outside of NY. They clearly made the decision this year to maintain that strategy by paying their NY associates a NY bonus as dictated by Cravath and all those who followed. And then, as is normal, led out in the non NY market with bonuses that were not dictated by NY. Give them credit for taking the lead outside of the NY as saying we won't reduce. OMM NY associates get screwed, but have reaped the rewards in past years.
OMM a california upstart? Get a clue!
If you think OMM bonuses outside of NY are less than Skadden, you don't understand the bonus system. There are several OMM associates, outside of NY, who will get bonuses in excess of 100K. Tell me which Skadden associate will recieve that much. Beyond the base, OMM compensates for performance and hours.
You think OMM is trying to make a statement to NY firms about comp? Get a clue 1st year associate!
251 and 262,
We shouldn't you buy now before all of the new yorkers get here?
Go on. Buy Buy Buy.
264 here noticing a typo.....D'OH!!!
251 and 262,
Well shouldn't you buy now before all of the new yorkers get here?
Go on. Buy Buy Buy.
Why are there so many people commenting about Orrick's hours and bonus policy who don't know what they're talking about?
Just to clarify, Orrick has a standards hours and bonus policy in all of its offices. The "minimum" billable requirement is 1950. But you don't get a bonus at 1950. There are two levels of hours bonuses you can reach. The first is at 2000 hours, where you get the bigger chunk. By way of example, first years get $25,000 at 2000 hours, second years get $30,000. Beyond that, all bonuses are discretionary. But if you hit 2100 hours, then you're guaranteed a partial amount of additional bonus. FIrst and second years get an extra $10,000, and third years get an additional $15,000 I think.
So, if you're a second year and you hit 2100 hours, you'll get $40,000.
Note that all "client representation" hours are counted toward the bonus, which includes all pro bono hours and all hours on matters where the firm is the client (e.g., working on the firm's own legal matters, like say responding to a subpoena).
So if you only "bill" 1900 hours, but you have an extra 200 in pro bono, you will get the full bonus of $35,000 as a first year or $40,000 as a second year. I know a number of people who have done that.
Why are there so many people commenting about Orrick's hours and bonus policy who don't know what they're talking about?
Just to clarify, Orrick has a standards hours and bonus policy in all of its offices. The "minimum" billable requirement is 1950. But you don't get a bonus at 1950. There are two levels of hours bonuses you can reach. The first is at 2000 hours, where you get the bigger chunk. By way of example, first years get $25,000 at 2000 hours, second years get $30,000. Beyond that, all bonuses are discretionary. But if you hit 2100 hours, then you're guaranteed a partial amount of additional bonus. FIrst and second years get an extra $10,000, and third years get an additional $15,000 I think.
So, if you're a second year and you hit 2100 hours, you'll get $40,000.
Note that all "client representation" hours are counted toward the bonus, which includes all pro bono hours and all hours on matters where the firm is the client (e.g., working on the firm's own legal matters, like say responding to a subpoena).
So if you only "bill" 1900 hours, but you have an extra 200 in pro bono, you will get the full bonus of $35,000 as a first year or $40,000 as a second year. I know a number of people who have done that.
Sheppard Mullin has told associates that it will be paying bonuses at the same level as last year, which is higher than OMM's bonus structure. However, Sheppard will only be paying the bonus to associates who billed 2100 hours plus.
CA and NY bonuses have always been different, even within the same firm, so this really is not some kind of earth-shattering event. I expect we will see something similar from MoFo soon, with the NY bonuses on the half-Skadden scale, and CA bonuses (which are based on hours and performance) on the scale MoFo announced back in March and confirmed again a couple months ago.
Yes, that means that for once CA MoFo associates who make their hours and get good reviews will get bigger bonuses than NY associates, but that apparently is what the market dictates. All the years that NY associates got far more money for the same hours than CA associates, MoFo told associates that was what the market was, so why should it be different now?
104 - nice old skool reference - Blackstreet!
So is the takewaway from all this is that these firms with minimum billables won't be paying bonuses to a fair share of associates? Are we talking 75%? 50%?
269, MoFo-NY didn't start matching the NY market base salary and bonus structure until 2004, so whither "all the years that NY associates got far more money for the same hours than CA associates." Is three a staggering amount on your home planet or something?
269, MoFo-NY didn't start matching the NY market base salary and bonus structure until 2004, so whither "all the years that NY associates got far more money for the same hours than CA associates?" Is three a staggering amount on your home planet or something?
271, I think that is right, to the extent that 2008 was a bad year in terms of associates making their minimum hours. I have no idea what the percentage is.
I'm just glad to see from the example of Orrick and OMM that the hours-based bonus firms/offices are not trying to double dip by both paying bonuses to fewer associates based on the hours requirement AND lowering bonuses for those who do make their hours. That would be lame.
As a non-NY MoFo associate, I am optimistic that those of us who did make their hours will get full bonuses as promised earlier in the year, just like associates at Orrick and OMM.
273, "all the years" means all the years, whatever number that may be. Not sure where "staggering amount" came from. And, by the way, the number of years at issue is 4, not 3 -- 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007.
They made the switch in 2004, it was not retroactive, and the 2004 bonus doesn't get paid until 2005, as I'm sure you know, so California has only been suffering this grave injustice for three years, thanks.
Right, dumbass, like s/he said, that's four years -- that's bonuses paid out in 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008.
I'd never move to DC. It is one spooky shithole.
I’m appalled, but not surprised, by the level of ignorant comments on this blog. The expressed entitlement to high salaries and bonuses is embarrassing. I’m sure you are not, but you should be ashamed.
Whatever 279, I didn't sell my soul for nothing.
If firms don't want us feeling entitled to high salaries, then they shouldn't feel entitled to having us on call 24/7 to deal with their bs work.
I know NYers will be upset about this, but for the past several years, the NY lockstep model put them waaaayyy ahead of the CA and DC bonuses (and therefore ahead of total compensation -- first years in NY were earning more than mid-levels in CA). This is the first year that the CA model (which is announced prospectively) will beat the NY lockstep model. Over the years, NY associates will still likely average a higher total compensation package.
162 asked: "Why is NYC office getting screwed? Is the NYC actually the least profitable? Normally the NYC office (of a lot of firms, maybe not OMM) carries the firm (and bonuses for all offices) and sets the market. Now NYC sets the bottom and the rest of the offices dont bother carrying NYC?"
I think the answer to this is that many of the so-called "California based firms" set their CA and DC compensation prospectively and follow a non-lockstep model of bonuses (part based on class year, part on hours, part on a merit-figure). See OMM, MoFo, Orrick, Gibson, and (I thought) Latham. In the last several years, this has meant that CA and DC associates were paid a lot less then their NYC counterparts. (And, in some cases, ended with total compensation less than NYC associates who were junior to them and working on the exact same cases and/or billing less hours.) This year, by sticking to the previously announced metric, these figures are ending up higher than the NYC market.
As someone who considered both NYC and CA offices, I think there is merit to the CA system of announcing in advance. People who want to can work the extra long hours (or even if they don't want to, they know that the hours will be acknowledged). It almost ends up as sort of a multi-tiered system. But this is the first year where it results in some associates being paid more (I say some, because you do have to hit minimums).
This is not the first year CA firms have paid more than NY. CA firms like irell and quinn have paid at NY or MORE for the past few years. (I know , for example, that Quinn paid their first years 5k more total compensation last year... not sure about the other classes)
last!!!!!!!!
*farts*
Has everyone forgot that first-year Orrick bonuses START at $25k and go up to $45k? Why does O'Melveny "make it rain" at $27k yet Orrick gets barely a passing nod for its bonus structure?
What is the KE structure?
What is the KE structure?
What is the KE structure?
What is the KE structure?
What is the KE structure?
all the law firms r giving big bounus and laying off alot of others . I think they all all a bunch of.... including omm
all the law firms r giving big bounus and laying off alot of others . I think they all all a bunch of.... including omm