Once the market picks up in a year or so, will we go back to 07 bonuses or will be spend years clawing our way back up to bonuses larger than the average family's income?

Morale at DPW has been very low and this memo just cements that. People are dissatisfied and talking about leaving. Apparently the firm has NOT had a bad year at all (comparatively) and the slashing and burning of people's compensation is not commensurate with the small reduction in revenues.

Second

ninth

Donkey punched.

2 - Depends. When do people start bailing for ibanks, hedgies and PE again?

There's your answer.

Once again proves how greedy partners are. DPW had a very profitable year and picked up a lot of the credit crunch business.

skadden to v1!

first to point out lates

MOTHERFUCKERS

I thought DPW had a great year? Of any of the V10 firms, I was sure they would match Skadden.

So where does this leave Skadden? Looking idiotic?

I knew this would happen a year ago.

Evan Chesler's Mom

Should say "latest" not "lates" in first para, Elie.

You know, I'm starting to wonder if maybe the typos are an indication that Elie is putting these out quickly without proofing so that we get the info faster but then will proofread afterward.

Bullshit!!! I worked the hours - I should get a full bonus.

i love how those "we are not affected by the economy" memos don't mean shit come bonus time.

Anybody heard any recent rumors about Debevoise?

"So much for elite law firms paying their associates at the top of the market."

So much for any hopes that you would comprehend the fact that that is the top of the market amid a nasty recession and impending and ongoing carnage via layoffs in the industry.

11 - This is why you don't act first unless you know what the other guy is going to do.

Cravath sucks. Just sucks.

race to the bottom? how about race back to sanity. wankers (with elie first in line)

Any way of knowing how many Skadden associates will make their hours? I know it's relatively low, but I'm willing to bet there is a sizable number of corporate associates who won't make the cut.

Rumors at Milbank of no bonus.

seriously? i want a do-over.

-- DPW Summer '09

Why would Skadden look "idiotic" for sharing the wealth with Associates?

It anything, it makes their partner look generous. Sure, they came out first and are paying double what everyone else so far is paying but CSM, DPW and STB are making them look better each and every day.

Would you want a partner that is willing to share the wealth or one that only cares about his own compensation at the associates' expense?

If all the rest keep going the cheap route, Skadden is going to see amazing returns on this investment when it comes recruitment time, particularly for laterals.

I think even if Skadden knew that everyone else was going to be handing out half-bonuses, the decision to go full and set yourself apart would be the right one.

"slavishly cheaping our associates"? That doesn't even make sense. You clearly don't know what "slavishly" means, and "cheaping" isn't a word - it isn't even slang. You mean something like "slavishly following other firms while screwing our associates."

HAVE ANY LITIGATION BOUTIQUES ANNOUNCED (E.G., QUINN, BOIES, KEKER)?

"slavishly cheaping our associates"? That doesn't even make sense. You clearly don't know what "slavishly" means, and "cheaping" isn't a word - it isn't even slang. You mean something like "slavishly following other firms while screwing our associates."

un-fucking-believable. How do they justify this when they are not refunding their clients? If the basis for these pidly shit bonuses is that it does not 'look right' to give big bonuses when their clients are suffering, how does it look when their PPP is remaining the same or, even worse, going up? As far as I am aware, my firm did well this year, at least as well as 2006. We should be getting bonuses on par with 2006, or partners should be refunding their clients money.

GET LIVES YOU ENTITLED LOSERS! $32,500 is a nice little chunk even after taxes and stuff are taken out.

11 and 18: jealous? sorry about your tiny pink bonuses.

24 - it's not about sharing the wealth. it's about planning responsibly for the future. the outlook does not look good, so why pay so much more when you may have to cut jobs in 2009. not smart.

un-fucking-believable. How do they justify this when they are not refunding their clients? If the basis for these pidly shit bonuses is that it does not 'look right' to give big bonuses when their clients are suffering, how does it look when their PPP is remaining the same or, even worse, going up? As far as I am aware, my firm did well this year, at least as well as 2006. We should be getting bonuses on par with 2006, or partners should be refunding their clients money.

People need to stop whining. They're called "bonuses" for a reason.

Any of my fellow K&E associates care to offer thoughts on what K&E will do??

GET LIVES YOU ENTITLED LOSERS! $32,500 is a nice little chunk even after taxes and stuff are taken out.

Bullshit!!! I worked the hours - I should get a full bonus.

32 - I bet a lot of laid off associates probably wish their firms had taken this advice in 2007 rather than handing out record bonuses in the middle of a recession like a bunch of morons.

21: Why do you say that a large number of Skadden associates won't make hours?

Skaddeninsider posted a while back that hours this year were about the same as last year. http://skaddeninsider.blogspot.com/2008/10/bonus-talk.html

Do you have any information to the contrary?

38-

Exactly.

This blog is ridiculous. OH NO! Only a $20K bonus for an entry-level attorney? Waaaaaah.

I hope all of you overpaid associates are laid off and firms learn supply and demand and that a Top 10 grad isn't worth all the money they're paid.

I really can't wait for for PPPs to be published.

I'd still take anyone else in the V10 over Skadden; but I don't like working with a bunch of gunners from TTT schools who need to prove to themselves that they are just as smart as the top school graduates.

What will really be interesting is to see if firms take this cheapness to the next level and give out much fewer bonuses in addition to cutting levels. Lowering bonuses has already been established, fewer associates getting bonuses is coming, but what firms will be so bold as to be stingy with the stingy bonuses?

Will be interesting to watch once we hit Boston w/ Ropes/Goodwin/Wilmer. Should be a good measure of how non-NYC upper-level firms are going to act.

No idea. Can see this as an out for the comp committee to halve bonuses this year. Would still be above market, but would still suck for those who busted their asses all year.

- Fellow K&E associate

Looks like my secretary ain't getting a dime this year.

weil?

32, some "partners" have posted on here about how law firms' financials work. they say that all profits are divided up and distributed at the end of the fiscal year, so that there are no reserves or the like that can be accessed by the firm in lean times.

so what i don't understand is how it's even prudent to cut bonuses when you expect a bad year in the future--b/c any money you save is distributed to the partners. why don't they save some cash in a common firm account?

if this is really the case and firms feel forced to fire people next year b/c of this type of financial planning, it will be really stupid.

The U.S. economy has been in a recession since December 2007, the National Bureau of Economic Research said Monday.

32: sour grapes

"People are dissatisfied and talking about leaving."

Leaving to go where exactly?

Look, "Half-Skadden" was funny the first time you said it. It was still funny the second and third time you said it. Now you just look like an idiot. STOP.

43: douchebag

"People are dissatisfied and talking about leaving."

Leaving to go where exactly?

Skadden won't be alone. Many of the National/International firms that aren't as reliant on the investment banks are having banner years. My national firm is going to have record PPP once again, and they better pay the associates.

45 -

You bust your ass this year, too? I certainly have. Billables were through the roof. I'm hoping that they keep the same grid as last year and that just the distribution of where people fall will be different (ie fewer people having big numbers of hours, etc).

--35

"it's not about sharing the wealth. it's about planning responsibly for the future. the outlook does not look good, so why pay so much more when you may have to cut jobs in 2009. not smart."

32 - Firms are not corporations. They don't have a lot a lot in the rainy day" fund. The profit goes to either the Partners or the Associates. Do you even know how a firm works? Why do you think it is an annual bonus? You reward your associates for their hard work the past year.

No wonder this board is going down the tube with dumbnuts like 32.

Weil partners have been waiting for a good excuse not to follow skadden. cravath by itself wasnt enough. cravath + simpson + davis polk is.

anyone who thinks that lower 2008 bonuses will have any impact on the decision by firm's to lay-off due to slowing business is deluded. the bonus decision is one of allocation between current associates and the partnership. martyrs that want to volunteer up their 2008 bonuses take note.

39, 21 here. My post was a question. I have no information to the contrary. I made an assumption (a bet), based on the state of our economy, that a sizable number of associates might not make their hours. I may be wrong; that's why I asked the question.

Was in the DPW cafeteria 45 minutes ago. All you heard murmurred was "Skadden, Skadden Skadden." Associates were alternately looking glum and laughing at the absurdity of this. Associates have been working hard and have been busy, in addition to receiving memos on how great the firm has been doing and on what high-profile work. Also, last I checked, DPW significantly RAISED its billing rates, so I think this is driven by sheer greed on the part of the partners and not any client-motivated factor.

58- Weil is the one firm that HAS to follow Skadden. Their Corporate was never strong and with Bankruptcy booming this is going to be their Golden Age. If they screw associates when the firm is at it's peak, no point in staying.

43 = D-bag.

No wonder people hate you.

No bonus at Milbank!!!

32 -

It makes sense for firms to bank some cash now in case times get tougher. Unfortunately that's not usually how the firm financial model works. Traditionally whatever money isn't paid to associates as a bonus is distributed to partners. No firm has given any public indication that they're changing the model, so why would you assume that they're banking this money? It's almost certainly being used to keep PPP up. Hell, the partners own the firm and they have a right to do what they want, but associates also have a right to critique that.

Although everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, phrases like these are very embarrasing to read:

"Pleased to announce." Not "horribly embarrassed that we are slavishly short-changing our associates because Daddy-Cravath said it was okay."

Why would a firm be embarrased to pay people a bonus that is almost the equivalent of a median salary in the US?

Although everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, phrases like these are very embarrasing to read:

"Pleased to announce." Not "horribly embarrassed that we are slavishly short-changing our associates because Daddy-Cravath said it was okay."

Why would a firm be embarrased to pay people a bonus that is almost the equivalent of a median salary in the US?

I'm a 2L deciding between DPW and Cleary for the summer. Because I'm indifferent between them, should I lean toward Cleary now, or is this a shortsighted way to rank my preferences? More generally, should the fuss about bonuses even influence the decision-making of us 2L's?

Hey MysTTTal, are you going to notice that Jamie Sprayregan is returning to K&E?

Think that might just merit a mention considering the current economic climate?

62

As long as Ive been paying attention, Weil has payed the same as all the other top firms (Skadden probably being the exception this year). You say their corporate has never been that strong, and that should arguably make it hard for them to keep up with compensation, but that hasnt been the case. So if they are always paying top of the "market" whether bankruptcy is booming or not, why leave?

No, 43 = Clearly a Skadden reject.

The Skadden bashers are ridiculous, especially since they don't even work at the firm. Spewing their hate and ignorance.

And no, I don't work there. I am going to be at another firm next summer but I enjoyed interviewing with them. From experience, it is clear that anyone who goes out of his way to bash a firm was rejected from that firm. Either that, or 43 is just insecure about something.

Although everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, phrases like these are very embarrasing to read:

"Pleased to announce." Not "horribly embarrassed that we are slavishly short-changing our associates because Daddy-Cravath said it was okay."

Why would a firm be embarrased to pay people a bonus that is almost the equivalent of a median salary in the US?

I'm a 2L deciding between DPW and Cleary for the summer. Because I'm indifferent between them, should I lean toward Cleary now, or is this a shortsighted way to rank my preferences? More generally, should the fuss about bonuses even influence the decision-making of us 2L's?

Is this really a race to the bottom? CSM/STB/DPW are still elite firms that will be paying larger bonuses than all but a couple of firms.

It is more a race to Brown or Cornell, as opposed to a race to

Why would you lean toward Cleary before they announce?

68: how could you be still deciding after Dec. 1. I am confused.

72,

It is pointless to compare biglaw salaries with the average American salary. The better comparison is among peer groups.

74 Please finish your sentence. I'm sure it will be really witty.

NALP issued new rules (i.e., 45 days after the offer). Plenty of HLS people are still deciding.

Paul, Weiss to market leader!

Since I am no antitrust attorney, I was wondering if there are any antitrust implications for this "follow the leader" conduct by NY firms with their bonus structures. Anyone care to weigh in?

I bet top Boston firms will match this. Ropes additionally will probably give Skadden-size bonuses to top billers.

How come the SkaddenDC boni were only half-skadden? That's fucked up.

81, think about how firms had lockstep compensation structures in the past without running afoul of antitrust laws. Oh in say, I don't know, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, etc.
Care to weigh in?

81 - There is clearly a very strong res ipsa loquitur argument to be made. I'd hate to be the 1L studying torts who couldn't see that issue.

Hey Latham, don't make my choice of you over Skadden look ridiculous!

If you're billing out at $400-500 an hour and billing 2000 hours you have made the firm 800k-1million. Minus 400k or so for salary, benefits, etc. and the firm has still made a lot of money off of the associate, certainly enough to pay more than a 25k bonus. Times may be tough, but I don't see how that changes the profit the associate should get.

Chances of Skadden rescinding?

85, aka Captain 1L, paying lower wages is not a tort.

Chances of Skadden rescinding?

I want to know about DEBEVOISE!

But DPW is nice!

This is unfortunate news. I think K&E is going to have to save us.

90: are you some kind of idiot?

I got a full bonus and I'm not at Skadden.

17: I disagree that Cravath represents the top of the market in a recession. Claim whatever prestige you like. But I can guarantee that Kirkland & Ellis still pays massive, hours-based bonuses to many of it's attorneys. Same with Boies Schiller.

So, is Cravath... still the top of the market?

Today is World AIDS day!! Everybody do your part and pat anyone from Texas on the back!

World AIDS Day Ambassador

Elie: Where's the story on the new Attorney General, Eric Holder, graduate of CLS ('76) and the first African-American AG?

94, hilarious. Those exact words went through my mind.

How out-of-touch so many people posting seem to be. Many law firms are laying people off and/or imploding due to poor financial management, and people continue to whine when some firms decide that the financial health of the firm is best served by lower bonuses. . . amazing. "Race to the bottom" seems a bit gouche given the current corporate climate.

The sad thing is that K&E will use the Skadden scale but won't announce until *right* before the holidays when it'll be too late for the announcement to save other associatee.

The sad thing is that K&E will use the Skadden scale but won't announce until *right* before the holidays when it'll be too late for the announcement to save other associatee.

DPW 08 summer here...I thought I'd be really angry if this happened, but actually, I'm not. Granted, the half-bonuses don't affect me, but as bonuses are discretionary, I really think it's great that firms are giving out bonuses at all this year. I know associates work really, really hard (with a lot of DPDubbers pulling late, late nights this past week), but you guys, the economy is TERRIBLE. I might just be overstuffed with Thanksgiving gratitude, but $17,500 is a really big chunk of money. Let's not pretend it isn't.

98 -- No one cares about successful black people anymore. They are no big deal.

Some of these posts are unbelievable. I understand we are lawyers and can argue a point from both sides but in all honesty, how do you bash Skadden for being a bad negotiator etc when the facts are clear: Skadden is giving up the bonuses it did last year sanz the special bonus (i.e. teh partners are taking a hit due to the economy) vs. some other big firms are cheaping out of giving their associates the same level even though most have sent out memos claiming everything was going well. All you Skadden bashers, it seems pretty clear to me. The question remains what is your problem with Skadden. Just shut up and take it like a man, if you made a bad choice, live with it.

NEVER FORGET!

Tier 1: WLRK

Tier 2: S&C/CSM/DPW/STB/Cleary

Tier 3: Lit boutiques & exclusive west coast firms

Tier 4: LW/WGM/KE/Paul Weiss/DP

Tier 5: SkaTTTen

The rest

DEBEVOISE rumors have us falling in line with DPW CSM and STB

103: Until you've been an associate you have no idea what you're talking about. Talk to me after a few consecutive 300+ hour months.

The $13 million savings averages to about $77k per partner.

87 -

That's the pyramid model for you.

Consider that DPW has about 159 partners and saved about $13 million by paying half-2007 bonuses. That's an extra $82,000 per partner, or 3.5% of DPW's 2007 PPP. Compare that to a senior associate, who is taking a 25% pay cut this year once you factor in the special bonus.

Are Cravath and DPW still prestigious if they are paying lower bonuses than most amlaw 50 firms did last year? What makes them so prestigious if they're cheap like TTT firms?

106: Hey Trig, is your mom running in 2012?

I expect this from Simpson TTThacher, but Davis Polk? Where does one even put the TTT?

p.s. (d)pwned

HAVE ANY LITIGATION BOUTIQUES ANNOUNCED (E.G., QUINN, BOIES, KEKER)?

I agree with 105.

Lots of people love to bash Skadden, and suggest that they made a dumb move, or that they overextended themselves. I don't see it that way. Skadden did not have to be the first firm to announce its bonuses for this year. They could have waited. No doubt they understood the current market conditions and recognized that other firms might not match them. Still, the management at Skadden decided that paying bonuses to associates who worked hard was worth sacrificing some profits per partner. It was the decent thing to do. So kudos to Skadden.

Debevoise are paying full bonuses. Yeehaw!

DPW Attorney Warehouse joins Half-Skadden and Skadden-Mart as one of the leaders of the new discount bonus economy!!

99 -- Happy World AIDS Day.

Here is a cyber pat on the back. Way to go, buddy!

HAVE ANY LITIGATION BOUTIQUES ANNOUNCED (E.G., QUINN, BOIES, KEKER)?

HAVE ANY LITIGATION BOUTIQUES ANNOUNCED (E.G., QUINN, BOIES, KEKER)?

The non-biglaw folk don't seem to realize that the extra money not paid to associates is not going into some operating account or rainy day / slush fund for the firm to ride out the economic slump. It is simply going into the partner's pockets. This is greed - pure and simple. If these memos stated that money was going to operating expenses or other needs - that would be fine by me. I have found no evidence this is true.

Yeah, Half-Skadden was funny the first few times, but now he just keeps repeating it and its gotten old.

He's like one of those guys who had a great football game in high school and talk about it for the rest of their lives, because it was the only real accomplishment they ever had.

93 -- K&E isn't going to "save" anyone. they're going to announce right before xmas like they do every year and most (if not all) of the ny firms would've announced by then.

So happy I dinged Davis Polk and WarTTTwell.

-T4 2L

Milbank memo out: NO BONUS!!!

117: DPW Attorney Warehouse is funny. Good job. Maybe you should be the one writing these blog entries?

-- 122

MILBANK ANNOUNCES - paying Half-Skadden on a "DISCRETIONARY" basis....wtf is this??

No bonus? are you sure Milbank paras aren't sending out a fake memo again?

Where do you think Willkie will go?

Debevoise are paying full bonuses. Yeehaw!

Skadden is not market. Skadden is 2 x CSM/STB/DPW.

117 just pwned Elie. Well done.

81, there is no antitrust issue from simply mirroring your competitors' behavior. So if DPW just saw what Cravath had done and copied it, that's not an antitrust problem. But if the firms talked among themselves and agreed to set bonuses at a certain level, that would likely be a violation.

122 ,did I ever tell you about the time I scored 4 touchdowns in one game for Polk High?

Weil will follow the pack (i.e., follow cravath, simpson, davis polk and the rest that will follow them). Weil will not follow skadden just because they are skadden. And I bet the partners at skadden are kickinig themselves for announcing first.

-Weil Associate

27 / 114/ 119 / 120: DO YOU SEE ANY FUCKING ARTICLES ABOUT THEM? DON'T YOU THINK YOU WOULD? DO YOU NEED HELP TURNING OFF YOUR CAPS LOCK? YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO BREATHE, SO PLEASE STFU. KTHXBYE.