Once the market picks up in a year or so, will we go back to 07 bonuses or will be spend years clawing our way back up to bonuses larger than the average family's income?

Morale at DPW has been very low and this memo just cements that. People are dissatisfied and talking about leaving. Apparently the firm has NOT had a bad year at all (comparatively) and the slashing and burning of people's compensation is not commensurate with the small reduction in revenues.

Second

ninth

Donkey punched.

2 - Depends. When do people start bailing for ibanks, hedgies and PE again?

There's your answer.

Once again proves how greedy partners are. DPW had a very profitable year and picked up a lot of the credit crunch business.

skadden to v1!

first to point out lates

MOTHERFUCKERS

I thought DPW had a great year? Of any of the V10 firms, I was sure they would match Skadden.

So where does this leave Skadden? Looking idiotic?

I knew this would happen a year ago.

Evan Chesler's Mom

Should say "latest" not "lates" in first para, Elie.

You know, I'm starting to wonder if maybe the typos are an indication that Elie is putting these out quickly without proofing so that we get the info faster but then will proofread afterward.

Bullshit!!! I worked the hours - I should get a full bonus.

i love how those "we are not affected by the economy" memos don't mean shit come bonus time.

Anybody heard any recent rumors about Debevoise?

"So much for elite law firms paying their associates at the top of the market."

So much for any hopes that you would comprehend the fact that that is the top of the market amid a nasty recession and impending and ongoing carnage via layoffs in the industry.

11 - This is why you don't act first unless you know what the other guy is going to do.

Cravath sucks. Just sucks.

race to the bottom? how about race back to sanity. wankers (with elie first in line)

Any way of knowing how many Skadden associates will make their hours? I know it's relatively low, but I'm willing to bet there is a sizable number of corporate associates who won't make the cut.

Rumors at Milbank of no bonus.

seriously? i want a do-over.

-- DPW Summer '09

Why would Skadden look "idiotic" for sharing the wealth with Associates?

It anything, it makes their partner look generous. Sure, they came out first and are paying double what everyone else so far is paying but CSM, DPW and STB are making them look better each and every day.

Would you want a partner that is willing to share the wealth or one that only cares about his own compensation at the associates' expense?

If all the rest keep going the cheap route, Skadden is going to see amazing returns on this investment when it comes recruitment time, particularly for laterals.

I think even if Skadden knew that everyone else was going to be handing out half-bonuses, the decision to go full and set yourself apart would be the right one.

"slavishly cheaping our associates"? That doesn't even make sense. You clearly don't know what "slavishly" means, and "cheaping" isn't a word - it isn't even slang. You mean something like "slavishly following other firms while screwing our associates."

HAVE ANY LITIGATION BOUTIQUES ANNOUNCED (E.G., QUINN, BOIES, KEKER)?

"slavishly cheaping our associates"? That doesn't even make sense. You clearly don't know what "slavishly" means, and "cheaping" isn't a word - it isn't even slang. You mean something like "slavishly following other firms while screwing our associates."

un-fucking-believable. How do they justify this when they are not refunding their clients? If the basis for these pidly shit bonuses is that it does not 'look right' to give big bonuses when their clients are suffering, how does it look when their PPP is remaining the same or, even worse, going up? As far as I am aware, my firm did well this year, at least as well as 2006. We should be getting bonuses on par with 2006, or partners should be refunding their clients money.

GET LIVES YOU ENTITLED LOSERS! $32,500 is a nice little chunk even after taxes and stuff are taken out.

11 and 18: jealous? sorry about your tiny pink bonuses.

24 - it's not about sharing the wealth. it's about planning responsibly for the future. the outlook does not look good, so why pay so much more when you may have to cut jobs in 2009. not smart.

un-fucking-believable. How do they justify this when they are not refunding their clients? If the basis for these pidly shit bonuses is that it does not 'look right' to give big bonuses when their clients are suffering, how does it look when their PPP is remaining the same or, even worse, going up? As far as I am aware, my firm did well this year, at least as well as 2006. We should be getting bonuses on par with 2006, or partners should be refunding their clients money.

People need to stop whining. They're called "bonuses" for a reason.

Any of my fellow K&E associates care to offer thoughts on what K&E will do??

GET LIVES YOU ENTITLED LOSERS! $32,500 is a nice little chunk even after taxes and stuff are taken out.

Bullshit!!! I worked the hours - I should get a full bonus.

32 - I bet a lot of laid off associates probably wish their firms had taken this advice in 2007 rather than handing out record bonuses in the middle of a recession like a bunch of morons.

21: Why do you say that a large number of Skadden associates won't make hours?

Skaddeninsider posted a while back that hours this year were about the same as last year. http://skaddeninsider.blogspot.com/2008/10/bonus-talk.html

Do you have any information to the contrary?

38-

Exactly.

This blog is ridiculous. OH NO! Only a $20K bonus for an entry-level attorney? Waaaaaah.

I hope all of you overpaid associates are laid off and firms learn supply and demand and that a Top 10 grad isn't worth all the money they're paid.

I really can't wait for for PPPs to be published.

I'd still take anyone else in the V10 over Skadden; but I don't like working with a bunch of gunners from TTT schools who need to prove to themselves that they are just as smart as the top school graduates.

What will really be interesting is to see if firms take this cheapness to the next level and give out much fewer bonuses in addition to cutting levels. Lowering bonuses has already been established, fewer associates getting bonuses is coming, but what firms will be so bold as to be stingy with the stingy bonuses?

Will be interesting to watch once we hit Boston w/ Ropes/Goodwin/Wilmer. Should be a good measure of how non-NYC upper-level firms are going to act.

No idea. Can see this as an out for the comp committee to halve bonuses this year. Would still be above market, but would still suck for those who busted their asses all year.

- Fellow K&E associate

Looks like my secretary ain't getting a dime this year.

weil?

32, some "partners" have posted on here about how law firms' financials work. they say that all profits are divided up and distributed at the end of the fiscal year, so that there are no reserves or the like that can be accessed by the firm in lean times.

so what i don't understand is how it's even prudent to cut bonuses when you expect a bad year in the future--b/c any money you save is distributed to the partners. why don't they save some cash in a common firm account?

if this is really the case and firms feel forced to fire people next year b/c of this type of financial planning, it will be really stupid.

The U.S. economy has been in a recession since December 2007, the National Bureau of Economic Research said Monday.

32: sour grapes

"People are dissatisfied and talking about leaving."

Leaving to go where exactly?

Look, "Half-Skadden" was funny the first time you said it. It was still funny the second and third time you said it. Now you just look like an idiot. STOP.

43: douchebag

"People are dissatisfied and talking about leaving."

Leaving to go where exactly?

Skadden won't be alone. Many of the National/International firms that aren't as reliant on the investment banks are having banner years. My national firm is going to have record PPP once again, and they better pay the associates.

45 -

You bust your ass this year, too? I certainly have. Billables were through the roof. I'm hoping that they keep the same grid as last year and that just the distribution of where people fall will be different (ie fewer people having big numbers of hours, etc).

--35

"it's not about sharing the wealth. it's about planning responsibly for the future. the outlook does not look good, so why pay so much more when you may have to cut jobs in 2009. not smart."

32 - Firms are not corporations. They don't have a lot a lot in the rainy day" fund. The profit goes to either the Partners or the Associates. Do you even know how a firm works? Why do you think it is an annual bonus? You reward your associates for their hard work the past year.

No wonder this board is going down the tube with dumbnuts like 32.

Weil partners have been waiting for a good excuse not to follow skadden. cravath by itself wasnt enough. cravath + simpson + davis polk is.

anyone who thinks that lower 2008 bonuses will have any impact on the decision by firm's to lay-off due to slowing business is deluded. the bonus decision is one of allocation between current associates and the partnership. martyrs that want to volunteer up their 2008 bonuses take note.

39, 21 here. My post was a question. I have no information to the contrary. I made an assumption (a bet), based on the state of our economy, that a sizable number of associates might not make their hours. I may be wrong; that's why I asked the question.

Was in the DPW cafeteria 45 minutes ago. All you heard murmurred was "Skadden, Skadden Skadden." Associates were alternately looking glum and laughing at the absurdity of this. Associates have been working hard and have been busy, in addition to receiving memos on how great the firm has been doing and on what high-profile work. Also, last I checked, DPW significantly RAISED its billing rates, so I think this is driven by sheer greed on the part of the partners and not any client-motivated factor.

58- Weil is the one firm that HAS to follow Skadden. Their Corporate was never strong and with Bankruptcy booming this is going to be their Golden Age. If they screw associates when the firm is at it's peak, no point in staying.

43 = D-bag.

No wonder people hate you.

No bonus at Milbank!!!

32 -

It makes sense for firms to bank some cash now in case times get tougher. Unfortunately that's not usually how the firm financial model works. Traditionally whatever money isn't paid to associates as a bonus is distributed to partners. No firm has given any public indication that they're changing the model, so why would you assume that they're banking this money? It's almost certainly being used to keep PPP up. Hell, the partners own the firm and they have a right to do what they want, but associates also have a right to critique that.

Although everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, phrases like these are very embarrasing to read:

"Pleased to announce." Not "horribly embarrassed that we are slavishly short-changing our associates because Daddy-Cravath said it was okay."

Why would a firm be embarrased to pay people a bonus that is almost the equivalent of a median salary in the US?

Although everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, phrases like these are very embarrasing to read:

"Pleased to announce." Not "horribly embarrassed that we are slavishly short-changing our associates because Daddy-Cravath said it was okay."

Why would a firm be embarrased to pay people a bonus that is almost the equivalent of a median salary in the US?

I'm a 2L deciding between DPW and Cleary for the summer. Because I'm indifferent between them, should I lean toward Cleary now, or is this a shortsighted way to rank my preferences? More generally, should the fuss about bonuses even influence the decision-making of us 2L's?

Hey MysTTTal, are you going to notice that Jamie Sprayregan is returning to K&E?

Think that might just merit a mention considering the current economic climate?

62

As long as Ive been paying attention, Weil has payed the same as all the other top firms (Skadden probably being the exception this year). You say their corporate has never been that strong, and that should arguably make it hard for them to keep up with compensation, but that hasnt been the case. So if they are always paying top of the "market" whether bankruptcy is booming or not, why leave?

No, 43 = Clearly a Skadden reject.

The Skadden bashers are ridiculous, especially since they don't even work at the firm. Spewing their hate and ignorance.

And no, I don't work there. I am going to be at another firm next summer but I enjoyed interviewing with them. From experience, it is clear that anyone who goes out of his way to bash a firm was rejected from that firm. Either that, or 43 is just insecure about something.

Although everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, phrases like these are very embarrasing to read:

"Pleased to announce." Not "horribly embarrassed that we are slavishly short-changing our associates because Daddy-Cravath said it was okay."

Why would a firm be embarrased to pay people a bonus that is almost the equivalent of a median salary in the US?

I'm a 2L deciding between DPW and Cleary for the summer. Because I'm indifferent between them, should I lean toward Cleary now, or is this a shortsighted way to rank my preferences? More generally, should the fuss about bonuses even influence the decision-making of us 2L's?

Is this really a race to the bottom? CSM/STB/DPW are still elite firms that will be paying larger bonuses than all but a couple of firms.

It is more a race to Brown or Cornell, as opposed to a race to

Why would you lean toward Cleary before they announce?

68: how could you be still deciding after Dec. 1. I am confused.

72,

It is pointless to compare biglaw salaries with the average American salary. The better comparison is among peer groups.

74 Please finish your sentence. I'm sure it will be really witty.

NALP issued new rules (i.e., 45 days after the offer). Plenty of HLS people are still deciding.

Paul, Weiss to market leader!

Since I am no antitrust attorney, I was wondering if there are any antitrust implications for this "follow the leader" conduct by NY firms with their bonus structures. Anyone care to weigh in?

I bet top Boston firms will match this. Ropes additionally will probably give Skadden-size bonuses to top billers.

How come the SkaddenDC boni were only half-skadden? That's fucked up.

81, think about how firms had lockstep compensation structures in the past without running afoul of antitrust laws. Oh in say, I don't know, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001, etc.
Care to weigh in?

81 - There is clearly a very strong res ipsa loquitur argument to be made. I'd hate to be the 1L studying torts who couldn't see that issue.

Hey Latham, don't make my choice of you over Skadden look ridiculous!

If you're billing out at $400-500 an hour and billing 2000 hours you have made the firm 800k-1million. Minus 400k or so for salary, benefits, etc. and the firm has still made a lot of money off of the associate, certainly enough to pay more than a 25k bonus. Times may be tough, but I don't see how that changes the profit the associate should get.

Chances of Skadden rescinding?

85, aka Captain 1L, paying lower wages is not a tort.

Chances of Skadden rescinding?

I want to know about DEBEVOISE!

But DPW is nice!

This is unfortunate news. I think K&E is going to have to save us.

90: are you some kind of idiot?

I got a full bonus and I'm not at Skadden.

17: I disagree that Cravath represents the top of the market in a recession. Claim whatever prestige you like. But I can guarantee that Kirkland & Ellis still pays massive, hours-based bonuses to many of it's attorneys. Same with Boies Schiller.

So, is Cravath... still the top of the market?

Today is World AIDS day!! Everybody do your part and pat anyone from Texas on the back!

World AIDS Day Ambassador

Elie: Where's the story on the new Attorney General, Eric Holder, graduate of CLS ('76) and the first African-American AG?

94, hilarious. Those exact words went through my mind.

How out-of-touch so many people posting seem to be. Many law firms are laying people off and/or imploding due to poor financial management, and people continue to whine when some firms decide that the financial health of the firm is best served by lower bonuses. . . amazing. "Race to the bottom" seems a bit gouche given the current corporate climate.

The sad thing is that K&E will use the Skadden scale but won't announce until *right* before the holidays when it'll be too late for the announcement to save other associatee.

The sad thing is that K&E will use the Skadden scale but won't announce until *right* before the holidays when it'll be too late for the announcement to save other associatee.

DPW 08 summer here...I thought I'd be really angry if this happened, but actually, I'm not. Granted, the half-bonuses don't affect me, but as bonuses are discretionary, I really think it's great that firms are giving out bonuses at all this year. I know associates work really, really hard (with a lot of DPDubbers pulling late, late nights this past week), but you guys, the economy is TERRIBLE. I might just be overstuffed with Thanksgiving gratitude, but $17,500 is a really big chunk of money. Let's not pretend it isn't.

98 -- No one cares about successful black people anymore. They are no big deal.

Some of these posts are unbelievable. I understand we are lawyers and can argue a point from both sides but in all honesty, how do you bash Skadden for being a bad negotiator etc when the facts are clear: Skadden is giving up the bonuses it did last year sanz the special bonus (i.e. teh partners are taking a hit due to the economy) vs. some other big firms are cheaping out of giving their associates the same level even though most have sent out memos claiming everything was going well. All you Skadden bashers, it seems pretty clear to me. The question remains what is your problem with Skadden. Just shut up and take it like a man, if you made a bad choice, live with it.

NEVER FORGET!

Tier 1: WLRK

Tier 2: S&C/CSM/DPW/STB/Cleary

Tier 3: Lit boutiques & exclusive west coast firms

Tier 4: LW/WGM/KE/Paul Weiss/DP

Tier 5: SkaTTTen

The rest

DEBEVOISE rumors have us falling in line with DPW CSM and STB

103: Until you've been an associate you have no idea what you're talking about. Talk to me after a few consecutive 300+ hour months.

The $13 million savings averages to about $77k per partner.

87 -

That's the pyramid model for you.

Consider that DPW has about 159 partners and saved about $13 million by paying half-2007 bonuses. That's an extra $82,000 per partner, or 3.5% of DPW's 2007 PPP. Compare that to a senior associate, who is taking a 25% pay cut this year once you factor in the special bonus.

Are Cravath and DPW still prestigious if they are paying lower bonuses than most amlaw 50 firms did last year? What makes them so prestigious if they're cheap like TTT firms?

106: Hey Trig, is your mom running in 2012?

I expect this from Simpson TTThacher, but Davis Polk? Where does one even put the TTT?

p.s. (d)pwned

HAVE ANY LITIGATION BOUTIQUES ANNOUNCED (E.G., QUINN, BOIES, KEKER)?

I agree with 105.

Lots of people love to bash Skadden, and suggest that they made a dumb move, or that they overextended themselves. I don't see it that way. Skadden did not have to be the first firm to announce its bonuses for this year. They could have waited. No doubt they understood the current market conditions and recognized that other firms might not match them. Still, the management at Skadden decided that paying bonuses to associates who worked hard was worth sacrificing some profits per partner. It was the decent thing to do. So kudos to Skadden.

Debevoise are paying full bonuses. Yeehaw!

DPW Attorney Warehouse joins Half-Skadden and Skadden-Mart as one of the leaders of the new discount bonus economy!!

99 -- Happy World AIDS Day.

Here is a cyber pat on the back. Way to go, buddy!

HAVE ANY LITIGATION BOUTIQUES ANNOUNCED (E.G., QUINN, BOIES, KEKER)?

HAVE ANY LITIGATION BOUTIQUES ANNOUNCED (E.G., QUINN, BOIES, KEKER)?

The non-biglaw folk don't seem to realize that the extra money not paid to associates is not going into some operating account or rainy day / slush fund for the firm to ride out the economic slump. It is simply going into the partner's pockets. This is greed - pure and simple. If these memos stated that money was going to operating expenses or other needs - that would be fine by me. I have found no evidence this is true.

Yeah, Half-Skadden was funny the first few times, but now he just keeps repeating it and its gotten old.

He's like one of those guys who had a great football game in high school and talk about it for the rest of their lives, because it was the only real accomplishment they ever had.

93 -- K&E isn't going to "save" anyone. they're going to announce right before xmas like they do every year and most (if not all) of the ny firms would've announced by then.

So happy I dinged Davis Polk and WarTTTwell.

-T4 2L

Milbank memo out: NO BONUS!!!

117: DPW Attorney Warehouse is funny. Good job. Maybe you should be the one writing these blog entries?

-- 122

MILBANK ANNOUNCES - paying Half-Skadden on a "DISCRETIONARY" basis....wtf is this??

No bonus? are you sure Milbank paras aren't sending out a fake memo again?

Where do you think Willkie will go?

Debevoise are paying full bonuses. Yeehaw!

Skadden is not market. Skadden is 2 x CSM/STB/DPW.

117 just pwned Elie. Well done.

81, there is no antitrust issue from simply mirroring your competitors' behavior. So if DPW just saw what Cravath had done and copied it, that's not an antitrust problem. But if the firms talked among themselves and agreed to set bonuses at a certain level, that would likely be a violation.

122 ,did I ever tell you about the time I scored 4 touchdowns in one game for Polk High?

Weil will follow the pack (i.e., follow cravath, simpson, davis polk and the rest that will follow them). Weil will not follow skadden just because they are skadden. And I bet the partners at skadden are kickinig themselves for announcing first.

-Weil Associate

27 / 114/ 119 / 120: DO YOU SEE ANY FUCKING ARTICLES ABOUT THEM? DON'T YOU THINK YOU WOULD? DO YOU NEED HELP TURNING OFF YOUR CAPS LOCK? YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO BREATHE, SO PLEASE STFU. KTHXBYE.

Debevoise just matched Skadden.

133, I truly hope you're in my antitrust class.

Confirmed re Debevoise.

Confirmed re Debevoise.

I am a Debevoise associate and I have not received any memo about bonuses. So either the posters who keep saying that Debevoise just matched Skadden have inside information or they are wrong. I guess time will tell.

NEWSFLASH: not 1 other firm will match Skadden. Not 1. They will all fall in line with Cravath - plain and simple. Skadden bonuses aren't "market"; just a failure on the part of management to understand what other firms were prepared to pay. Skadden would be paying "Half-Skadden" bonuses if Cravath had announced first.

106 is the biggest douchebag ever.

Fucking moron, the list reads like this

Tier 1: WLRK
Tier 2: Skadden
Tier 3: The TTTs

Deb to Skadden +$1.

Does DPW have an hours requirement?

108: I was discussing how I ,as a former summer, feel. That you don't agree with my opinion, or relate to my perspective is your own personal problem, and probably the result of Thanksgiving dinner-induced constipation.

As I self-identified, and acknowledged that the bonus fiasco doesn't affect me, I think it's clear that I don't know what it's like to be an associate. Guess what? I DON'T HAVE TO UNTIL NEXT FALL.

With that said, I know exactly what I'm talking about, because I was expressing an OPINION.

Since you're soooooo busy, go DO YOUR WORK and stop picking fights with 3Ls.

-103

106 is the biggest douchebag ever.

Fucking moron, the list reads like this

Tier 1: WLRK
Tier 2: Skadden
Tier 3: The TTTs

If the Debevoise bonus thing is true, it only reinforces my image of the firm as being chiller and more benevolent relative to the big NYC players. It's good to know that some places have maintained at least some semblance of the ideals of law as a profession, marginal increases in PPP be damned.

Just be happy you have a job everyone. It's only going to get worse.

Recent historical note about Skadden and market - until the recent rounds of salary increases Skadden paid above everyone else. Other firms didn't see a reason to match then and unfortunately probably won't now.

OMG THE WORLD IS ENDING OMG OMG OMG OMG

NERVOUS ATL D-BAG

Confirmed -- Texas has huge boni.

How big is your sausage? That's the real question.

You guys are all idiots. Just because a partnership is taxed on its entire current income doesn't mean that the partners take all the money. You really think all the partners have zero dollars in their capital accounts? You seriously believe that a partnership has no operating cash on hand?

Let's say a partnership has a PPP of $2 million. It can distribute $1.5 million to the partner. The partner is taxed on the entire $2 million, so he pays $0.7 million (35%) to the IRS. The remaining $0.5 million stays with the partnership.
So the money that a firm saves on associate bonuses could very well be retained by the firm instead of going to the pockets of the partners. The fact that the money is taxed is absolutely irrelevant to whether the money is retained or drawn.

Can someone confirm the (lack of) Milbank bonus?

150- That's not really true. Although Skadden's base salary was higher, its bonuses were smaller by exactly the salary difference between it and everyone else. Skadden paid the same as everyone else, just in a different form.

Remember NY to 190?

Yeah, eat sh*t and die.

Get back to work slaves! Oh wait you are all out of work. Sucks to be you.

Happy in Houston

156,

Right cause as we can see now, there is no difference between salary and bonuses YOU MORON

147 - true knockin!

Sigh.... Discount Prospectus Warehouse is starting to feel about right at this point. I can't even count the number of times partners have told me "the firm does not lead in compensation, but always matches the top of the market."

My class has average law school debt about 15% higher than the class above me, but has to make do with reduced compensation to service that debt.

I hate our greedy partners.

159- The point is there was no difference between what Skadden paid and what anyone else paid for ANY of the years that Skadden paid a higher base salary. Your attempts to puff up Skadden are embarrassingly weak, and at the moment, unnecessary.

oh shucks, skadden is so lucky. all those people commenting on the cravath bonus announcement post will be proven right: now everyone will want to go to skadden and not davis polk or cravath. and since sullivan & cromwell is clearly in the same league as the latter two (and will probably pay non-skadden bonus), no one will want to go there anymore either.

It's unbelievable to me that here in Houston, Texas, where I can buy a 3,500 sq ft house with a pool for what NY big firm associates pay for a 900 sq ft apartment (according to what I've read here), I'm getting a much bigger bonus (my take was $90k and I'm told it was not the top of the scale at my firm) than the guys at New York's elite firms. I'm sure it's only temporary but it is pretty cool.

any word on bonus from Cahill? they usually go "market"

you're an idiot ,163. People will always want to go to Cravath, Simpson, Davis Polk and S&C because they are who they are.

164...that is cool. But you live in Houston. There's a reason people trade the 3,500 sq ft home with a pool in the middle of the woods surrounded by Texans for a smaller apartment in the economic/cultural center of the empire.

164: sadly, a lot of us have spouses who would leave us if we wanted to move to Texas.

To those saying the partners at Skadden are kicking themselves for announcing early I just wanted to say that the partners I have spoken with have been uniformly gracious and said they felt it was the right thing to do. I don't know why some people continue to delight in bashing Skadden. They tried to set market base comp higher in 2000 and granted a decent bonus ithis year despite market turmoil. They have never tried to screw associates the way DP (we don't anticipate any bonus this year) W did a few years ago. It's amazing to me that people still don't want to give Skadden credit.

first!

Agreed. My wife won't move anywhere south of midtown.

you're an idiot, 166. how could you not read the sarcasm in 163's comment?

DPW Summer '08 here...

If someone told me that my first year in I would have reduced bonus or no bonus in exchange for some greater job security, I'd take it in a second.

168: it's ok, you'll find a better one here. Trust me.

I hear firms give you a mexican child as a relocation bonus for moving to Texas...any truth to this?

164 - firm please?

68- I think it would be extremely short-sighted to choose between DPW and Cleary based on this year's bonuses, particularly since Cleary has yet to announce. There is no telling what the bonus situation will be with either firm by the time you arrive, but chances are good they will be doling out the same amounts.

168 - maybe those spouses aren't ones worth keeping...

My wife almost divorced me when she heard I had a 2 hour lay over in Dallas-F.W. on my way to L.A. It was a close call but I talked her out of it.

175 -- not guaranteed to be Mexican. My firm only promised me "hispanic" generally. I ended up with a sweet little girl from Guatemala though, so it worked out.

173, why are you assuming that this bonus cut will have any positive effect on job security?

154: Ur math is dumb. I doubt that partners are tossing $.5M into any firm account on a yearly basis. You are right that a P-ship doesn't _need_ to distribute 100% each year, but there's no reason to think that they save 25% of their profits each year either.

103, you're an idiot. Let's see how you feel at bonus time after you've been an associate and have billed over 2600 hours for the previous year and then find out that your bonus (which is supposed to reflect the previous year's work) is only half what others who have billed less than you are getting because they work at a different firm. Any amount of money looks big to a law student. Your summer associate salary probably made you feel like a million bucks. But when you're an associate, you trade your life over to the billable hour and at times the job can be so awful that at times it seems like no amount of money would make this job worth it, but still there was the bonus to look forward to. Not this year.

Welcome to the Jungle.

DPW Summer '08 here...

If someone told me that my first year in I would have reduced bonus or no bonus in exchange for some greater job security, I'd take it in a second.
__________________________________________

Who told you that you're exchanging a lesser bonus for greater job security? They're not reducing bonuses in order to protect jobs; they're reducing bonuses because a generally tanking economy gives them the opportunity to reduce associate compensation without facing negative reppercussions to their reputations.

There really is no reason to put up with the hours and nastiness of this job without substantial compensation, so I think many of you need to quit lying to yourselves about what the future is going to look like, and start protecting your interests just as partners are protecting their's.

94's mother is a whore who f*cked a donkey. Hey Mama 94, next time don't let the donkey give it to you in the a*s. Show some self-respect.

94's mother is a whore who f*cked a donkey. Hey Mama 94, next time don't let the donkey give it to you in the a*s. Show some self-respect.

94's mother is a whore who f*cked a donkey. Hey Mama 94, next time don't let the donkey give it to you in the a*s. Show some self-respect.

what's the word on Milbank?

DPw

to 145:

afaik, DPW doesn't have minimum billable hours, and bonuses are purely lockstep.

182, it's called a hypothetical example, showing how partner profits do not have to equal draws (contrary to 49, 121, etc). The $0.5 million is an example to educate the math / tax law retards using simple round numbers. Notice the words "Let's say" as well as the last two sentences. Pretend that I used $50k in my example if that makes you understand the hypothetical better. Idiot.

Love,
154

Top 5 - 2L Here:

I was a bit angry, as most of people here, but soon I was actually happy for the move of Cravath, STB, and now DPW. After all, my first bonus will be 2010, or 2011 for special bounus. The cut-cost will help people like me, as well as summer 08 to keep the offer. Cheers!!!

188 - Milbank just distributed bonuses: $100 gift cards to Chipotle.

Disappointment at bonuses is understandable. How many of you, though, have considered the intelligence of working 2500+ hours for the possibility of an additional $50,000-$100,000 over just about any other lawyer? I am not arguing that you've made bad career choices. On the contrary. But, the best "value" in your choice to join a top firm was the career potential for the rest of your professional life. Your bonuses while working at the firm, while nice, are really not that important. (For context, I am in a general counsel office of a major company.)

DPW did the right thing. In this market, the firm better prepares itself for a much worse 2009. The financial market may have been bottomed, the legal service market has not.

186 Nailed IT! Nailed real good!

Hot Texas

Milbank to ChipoTTTle!

Only a 17.5k bonus? Omg, how will they survive?

168, if your spouse is willing to leave you for simply moving to another state, I hesitate to think what he/she would do to you when a real unexpected adversity hits you, such as unemployment or major medical problems.

My wife divorced me because I have a really big case of the Texas BigAIDS.

to 190:

what is the average hours billed a year by most associates? I heard that layers had to bill 2000 hours to receive full pay...not true?

198: NYC associates pay nearly 50% of their income in taxes. They get $~9,000 in bonus to pay down their six-figure debt load after they help pay for the lazy people's share of the national, state, and city revenue stream.

83 - Where'd you get that Skadden is paying half in DC? Every US associate got the same memo, from the Bay Area to Houston to Boston. (Probably same place you got "boni"--in Latin as a noun the singular would be bonum, so plural is bona, Bonehead.)

192 - you're the epitome of an entitled imbecile. thank you for illustrating the fact that even idiots can do well on the LSAT.

83 - Where'd you get that Skadden is paying half in DC? Every US associate got the same memo, from the Bay Area to Houston to Boston. (Probably same place you got "boni"--in Latin as a noun the singular would be bonum, so plural is bona, Bonehead.)

202, how many associates do you think voted for Obama and his proposed more redistributory and higher taxes? I'm guessing 80%.

83 - Where'd you get that Skadden is paying half in DC? Every US associate got the same memo, from the Bay Area to Houston to Boston. (Probably same place you got "boni"--in Latin as a noun the singular would be bonum, so plural is bona, Bonehead.)

Elie,

How about a list of firms that have a minimum billables requirement? Skadden's minimum is sort of a joke, but I'd like to see what hours-based firms do with their bonuses. If 75% of their associates didn't bill 2000, then they should have less justification to pull a Cravath. Half bonuses with an hours requirement seems like double dipping.

Echo 129 - Where will Willkie Farr end up?

Anyone ever lit up a fart? It can compensate for the lesser bonuses this year.

MILBANK ANNOUNCES: $50 gift certificates to a massage parlor of your choice in Little Korea.

Debevoise (comically) likes to think of themselves as a peer of Cravath so they will definitely match the Half-Skadden.

201 - not true. There is no minimum billable requirement at DPW, and bonuses are purely lockstep. I do not know what the average billables are, but mine have ranged from ~2000 to ~2400 over the past several years.

208,
I second that. I fully expect my firm to double-dip in this manner (2000 billables required), but seeing as how Skadden is the only firm with a stated billables requirement that has announced so far, there is still the faintest glimmer of hope. I'll take whatever I can get, but more is always better.

Can confirm that 83 is talking out of his ***. One of my law school buddies is at Skadden, DC, and he was completely enthusiastic about his bonus.

161 -- you say, "I can't even count the number of times partners have told me 'the firm does not lead in compensation, but always matches the top of the market.'"

What you are witnessing is DPW matching "top of the market."

"Top of the market" is not any given outlier -- it's where the critical mass of firms like CSM, STB and DPW end up.

Skadden is an outlier: excellent if you are a Skadden associate; sucks if you are a Skadden partner.

But don't despair yet, there are a lot of firms still to announce, and the market could still be reset (though my hopes are fading).

Shearman is going over the top. You heard it here first. It will use this opportunity to reverse its recent drop in the Vault rankings.

154, 191: I presume ur law professors often said to you, "You are not seeing the issue."

The issue in this thread is whether the act of cutting bonuses (to ~30% of last year's) means that the partners are pocketing the difference. It does mean that.

Your theory that they are probably dumping the difference into capital accounts is not supported by either evidence or reason and moreover, since in a partnership those accounts are the same as the partners' "pockets," your theory is irrelevant to the issue at hand. Thanks for playing.

182

I know this is unrelated, but I figured that this thread would be populated by more attorneys than law school d-bags, so I thought I would give it a shot-
I'm a 2L, and I'm very curious: what happens to first-year associates at BigLaw firms who fail the (e.g., NY) bar? Are they dumped by the firm? Do they spend a year doing gruntwork and get to take the bar again? Does it differ from firm to firm, or is there a standard way to treat such flunkies?

219,
At my firm, business continues as usual after the first flunk and you take it again. If you fail a second time, you lose your job. I don't think it's a year, though - you'd be taking it again in February (or whatever the next test time is).

CJ is cool

218: I presume your professors complimented you on your keen grasp of the obvious. Yes of course if the partners don't pay $X million to their employees, then they have an additional $X million for themselves. This seems unfair to people who worked hard this year and who believe that partners' 2008 profits won't be off by so much. I would suggest that partners have a different perspective. While associates are looking into the rearview mirror, partners are staring into 2009 and wondering how they are going to pay kindergarten tuition, co-op mortgage, spring break in Aspen, that Hamptons rental, alimony (2x), the occasional mistress . . . . Things like fixed expenses tend to concentrate the mind.

Partners are no different from the owners of any business. Suppose XYZ co had a banner year in 2007 and paid a big dividend in early 2008, and then had another banner year for most of 2008 -- but their best customer filed for Chapter 11 at the end of the year. Would XYZ Co pay the same dividend at the beginning of 2009?

222 -- your hypothetical isn't on all fours, as your professors would say. Partners = owners = the ones who get the dividend. I do agree with your larger point however. Associates may have kicked butt for the firm in 2008, but if 2009 is going to be a killer, it makes no sense for a firm to drain its piggybank.

222:
I agree that it is difficult for us to sympathize with fixed expenses that include $20K-$30K kindergarten tuition, co-op mortgage payments on the Upper West Side, spring break in Aspen and Hampton rentals. It's even more difficult for us to understand how Partners can conclude that saving themselves an extra $80K-$100K is fair when they are already distributing in excess of $1MM to themselves while not creating some kind of reserve account that benefits their worker bees. Clearly, this model is defunct. I do not understand why there is not some kind of union for associates at the top 10 firms. Most associates have no idea how the business of their multimillion dollar employer works. Thus, it is difficult for us to understand how a firm that generates in excess of $700 million per year for the past few years can be on the verge of dissolution.

Frankly, Cravath is pitiful. They clearly will not maintain their prestigious position in the market place. But it is not clear which is worse--a firm like Cravath that has little to no bankruptcy department and a relatively non-diversified business structure that will allow it to survive the economic downturn OR a firm like Davis Polk whose business structure is quite diversified and whose annual revenues are on par with (and possibly exceeding) those of the prior few boom years.

This week is the time of reckoning for the other top ten firms like Davis Polk who have no excuse to pay their associates in the same way that financial weak firms like Cravath and Simpson have done. Those firms whose names have been in the paper for raking in all of the bail out work and the many bankruptcies have ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE.

Shame on you Davis Polk partners. May you continue to fall in the rankings. May the best law school students continue to go to much better firms. Message to those midlevels at Simpson and Cravath: form some kind of union and demand to see the books OR prepare your resumes because those ships are sinking.

S&C just matched skadden plus a "special bonus"

S&C just matched skadden plus a "special bonus"

Houston is easily the absolute worst city on earth. My firm represents one of the evil companies that are there so I have been many times. It is unbelievably hot - like 100 degrees in May. Also - no friggin zoning laws...so sprawling it takes a solid 3 hours to cross the city without traffic, and the 50 story skyscraper where your client is located is right next to a bunch of ranch homes. But easily the worst thing is the food - even the steaks aren't that great. And the funny thing is everyone is incredibly fat and ugly. Awesome city. Have fun there d-bag.

S&C just matched skadden plus a "special bonus"

S&C just matched skadden plus a "special bonus"

S&C just matched skadden plus a "special bonus"

S&C just matched skadden plus a "special bonus"

S&C just matched skadden plus a "special bonus"

S&C just matched skadden plus a "special bonus"

S&C just matched skadden plus a "special bonus"

S&C just matched skadden plus a "special bonus"

S&C just matched skadden plus a "special bonus"

S&C just matched skadden plus a "special bonus"

164 - Houston is easily the absolute worst city on earth. My firm represents one of the evil companies that are there so I have been many times. It is unbelievably hot - like 100 degrees in May. Also - no friggin zoning laws...so sprawling it takes a solid 3 hours to cross the city without traffic, and the 50 story skyscraper where your client is located is right next to a bunch of ranch homes. But easily the worst thing is the food - even the steaks aren't that great. And the funny thing is everyone is incredibly fat and ugly. Awesome city. Have fun there d-bag.

NO BONUS AT MILBANK.

NO BONUS AT MILBANK.

NO BONUS AT MILBANK.

NO BONUS AT MILBANK.

S&C rocks!!! May every other firm that raked in the bail out business follow S&C's lead as a truly great firm.

Shame on you Davis Polk! Shame!

Shame indeed on DPW if its PPP is the same or goes up. I too found it surprising DPW did not match Skadden. Maybe DPW's high profile credit related work does not pay. Didn't Wachtell represent the Fed pro bono on the Freddie and Fannie bailouts? Simpson will bill what for TARP work - $300k??? Could it be DPW is not charging the Fed and Treasury, or maybe lowering rates for its financially stressed clients?

225-6, 228-37, please verify

164- a lot of good your 3500 sq ft house is going to do you when you shoot yourself in the face out of unbearable boredom. I've lived in Texas, there's shit-all to do there. NYC is the center of the universe. I'll take my 900 sq ft in the most interesting and diverse place in the country than your big-box suburban sprawl any day.

http://dpw.com/news/financialcrisis.htm

Hooray! We're doing great!

218/182, actually you're the one who is not seeing the issue. The issue, as debated above, is whether the partners are paying less to associates in order to conserve cash inside the firm so that they can smooth things over during the future rough times.
Some people claimed that they are not putting the cash in the firm because partner profits = draws.
People correctly pointed out that profits do not equal draws, and when profits > draws, the firm has more operating cash, which it can use to tide over the rough times instead of getting more debt. There is no evidence that profits != draws, but since capital accounts are non-zero there is a presumption that at least sometimes profits > draws.

You, however, completely miss the point as to the difference between taking cash out of the firm and keeping the cash inside the firm. Yes, the capital acccount is still the partner's cash, but there's a huge difference between a distributive share (like a dividend) and retained capital (like accumulated earnings).
Thanks for playing, Captain 1L.

Did S&C just announce? DPW is f'd if 228-237 is correct.

245--

I can verify that 225-6, 228-37 and 243 are talking BS. No bonus letters have been distributed here at 125 Broad.

225-6, 228-37 and 243 = Scum

For all of you morons who decided to go to large, highly leveraged corporate firms with lock-step compensation after law school just like most of your unimaginative classmates, you are getting what you deserve. You are not owed a higher bonus. You are owed whatever your pitiful biglaw market will bear. This year, it bears the scale, above, with one (maybe two or three) exceptions.

If you don't like it, try doing something creative or something out-of-the-box for once in your life. Start a business. Join a start-up. If not, don't whine when your fungible ass is deposited by the wayside by the desperately outdated business model which you willingly chose and continue to choose.

Confirming 250. Radio silence at S&C thus far.

251--

Maybe 225-6, 228-37 and 243 is acting under the notion that writing about fake bonuses will cause other firms to immediately follow S&C's lead based on an unsubstantiated internet rumor. If so, it is a brilliant ploy, and I wholeheartedly commend 225-6, 228-37 and 243 for such an unchildish strategy.

247 - that list is ridiculous!!! With those clients and deals, shouldn't DPW be setting the market?

249 - agree S&C is the benchmark for DPW. If S&C matches Skadden, DPW's partners look cheap.

252,
"For all of you morons who decided to go to large, highly leveraged corporate firms with lock-step compensation after law school..."

So are there any firms you WOULD recommend?

224. Please return from fairytale land as soon as possible, your work is piling up.

"Another law firm informed associates that their hard work was worth half of what it was a year ago. "

Good math.

Wow. DLA just announced bonuses matching Skadden. What the hell is going on??

259 = least convincing troll ever

162,

You're being overly generous to Skadden. At least one year, Skadden somewhat significantly underpaid mid-levels for all-in comp during the years when it was the salary leader.

YOU'RE DOING IT!!! YOU'RE PLAYING WITH US PETER!!!

You people are morons - reducing bonuses is client and cost management.

263- reducing rates would be client management. Why would a client care if its money goes to partners or associates?

S&C is clearly deciding whether to declare war on their peers by paying Skadden+ or to pay bonuses in Goldman Sachs stock options exercisable at $120.00 a share or higher.

I wonder if my student loan creditors will accept GS stock options.

I don't understand why people insinuate that Cravath is not doing well or is undiversified. Their name has frequently been attached to many deals going on right now, Johnson an dJohnson, Citigroup, and Chrysler to name a few. Just because they have only a small bankruptcy department means nothing. Bankruptcy does not make a firm diversified. Cravath is by and large regarded as a diversified firm, at least as diversified as any other in its tier. They lowered bonuses as a response to the economy, and now all the other firms are following them, NOT Skadden. That is a great example of the weight a firm like Cravath has. No one cares what Skadden is offering, because 1) no one sees them as a threat, and 2) everyone realizes that in a year or two, things are all going to be back to normal and nothing will have changed. I guarantee the V10 will be the exact same as it is today. The commentators on this blog are just wild conjecturers who have no information about the firms they try and trash. Cravath has been the most, or at least one of the most highly profitable firms, for the past century. Don't fool yourself into thinking anything has changed.

Is that a 'yes' on student loans being payable in Cravath prestige points and/or GS stock options, 267?

268, you're just an idiot. All I was doing was commenting on the silliness of anyone to say that Cravath is doing poorly financially. This is an economic downturn, and it adjusted bonuses accordingly. To say it is undiversified or 'going under' is just something people like you try and say because you're pissed off you work at a shit firm. Get over it.

Never said either--just making the point that quite a lot of us who are busting our asses care what Skadden is offering. Not that you'll believe me, but I'm at S&C.

-268

I predict..... Cravath stays at number 2 on vault, and number 2 on Profits per Partner when the results come out.

-Not a Cravath associate. Just someone who has common sense and enough foresight to see past 4 weeks of bad press from a douchbag blogger and Skadden trolls.

267/269 -- you are either a Cravath associate or, more likely, a Cravath partner. Only someone invested in Cravath's fortunes would react like you. Your "strategy" is incomprehensible to the rest of us. Good luck!! (WLRK you ain't -- remember Vivendi?)

I'm sure a lot of people at Lehman and Bear Sterns were busting their asses before they got fired. And I am sure a hell of a lot of people at Cravath are busting their asses too. But it's the worst friggin recession in decades. It's silly to think bonuses should stay the same. I believe you work at S&C, and when it follows Cravath, I hope you are quite pleased next year when you still have your job and your bonus returns to a higher level in a year or two when this disaster of an economy works itself out.

272, if only your post made any sense....

273: when one single firm comes out and says: (1) our 2008 PPP will be at, near, or above 2007 levels; (2) we're slashing your 2008 bonus to Cravath levels; and (3) the money saved will not be paid out to partners and will instead be socked away to cover possible hard times in 2009 . . . I'll agree with your rationale.

At this point, (1) and (2) appear clear for a number of firms. No firm has said (3).

As a reminder, take a look at Skadden's memo, specifically the part that goes:

The Firm has historically paid its associates at the "top of the market" in their respective local markets. While we do not know what other firms will do this year with regard to paying a supplemental bonus, we believe that our bonuses this year should be limited to the year-end discretionary bonus.

I take the above language to mean that Skadden was prepared to pay more if anyne raised. As an associate at a classic follower firm, I hope S&C does what's right and pay the top of the market. And believe, if anyone pays what Skadden pays, CSM and the rest will pay too.

I agree there. It really is kind of useless to talk/argue about any of this until the financials for all these firms are released.

I just think it is more useless to try and argue that any of the top firms are going under, or are financially weak as a lot of people on this blog try to say. Most of these firms have been around for a long time, and are not going to go under anytime soon. The fact that they are giving bonuses at all is hopeful. It's because most associates right now were in high school during the last recession, and probably just barely out of diapers during the last REAL recession, that they are making such wild, extreme comments.

Why is everyone on this blog already grouping S&C with CSM, CPW, and STB as if they announced half-bonuses already?
Newsflash, they HAVEN'T! I suspect that they will, but if they do, it doesn't mean they are ANY less of a firm. Offering the same as the 3 other most prestigious firms cannot be considered foolish.

Skadden paid more, for one year. Get. Over. It. Why can no one see that everything is going to be back to regular in a year? It's called a recession.

Agreed, 277, though you have to consider that this board is not the most restrained, mature, and professional environment.

As for financially weak, only CSM's lease gives me pause--$90,000,000 per year in rent is brutal. S&C's purchase of half of 125 Broad Street was brilliant.

Ralph is glad that he left his NYC firm and went to a smaller market where he's worked fewer hours but will get a bigger bonus.

Unfortunately not all of us have bankrupt landlords to strongarm... if only!!!
It's $60M, not $90M, I believe, but still a decent point.

CSM has a bankruptcy practice.

Yes, $60 million per year is correct (~$900 million over 15 years).

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aar21pxL.2ow

Best line by a mile: "I think $100 a square foot is going to look like a pretty good deal in five months."

282 - that's somewhat misleading to say. they don't have debtor practice. and the practice they're trying to start up is relatively new (i.e., a lit oriented practice). that said, levin is the man.

The real question is this: will the Cravath sailing team be out on the water come spring?

Any firm in the V10 would never be so stupid as to have clients solely in finance. Simpson was likely hit the hardest by the collapse in banking and finance, but don't expect it, or S&C, CSM, Skadden, Wachtell, etc. to go anywhere.

What I am on the edge of MY seat for: Wachtell's bonuses. If they don't maintain 100% bonuses then the shit has really hit the the fan.

That said, given that such an elite firm like Cravath has set its bonuses the way it did, it no longer makes any sense for any other firm to do anything but match them and not match Skadden. They will save money, and the recruiting ramifications, trust me, will be negligble.

For those seeking real information, Milbank has not announced bonuses yet. I am sure the moment they do, that it will be posted here for troll attack 10 minutes later.

Remember the needy this holiday season. Food pantries are running out of food. . .buy some canned goods, clothes or some toys for the less fortunate and drop them off at a church or the Salvation Army and you will realize you have alot to be happy and thankful about.

I disagree, The recruiting ramifications would be huge for whoever stepped up and matched Skadden. Does anyone out here really think there is a meaningful difference in the practices or types of work the firms being discussed here offer? Does anyone think that exit opportunities really differ that much from firm to firm? If you do, I'm sorry, but you're a fool.

If I was coming out of law school and I had the same options now that I had then, I would look long and hard at Skadden right now. The difference of $25k in the middle of a recession is a pretty sizable chunk of money.

Man, this tight market has people all crabby and irritable.

289 (and others) - Typically one must bill at least 1600 at the SASMF DeathStar to get the full ducat bag. There may be no official minimum, but they are less generous to the less productive. In good times, some folks skirt under the radar with weak numbers (it is a big place with many dark corners to hide in). But now that we are in a cluster, maybe 80% of the rowers will get the bonus and the rest will be at risk of a boot in the ass come March. On your other point, I agree that among Skadden, Cravath, Sullivan, , DPW, Cleary, etc. there is not much diff.

I have heard rumors from folks in the partner caste that Simpson is doing very poorly, though. . .their mash had a bit too much Wall Street in it and not enough other ingredients.

"Davis Polk is playing a pivotal role in the largest and most complex matters of the current financial crisis"

Indeed, by keeping the bonus bar as low as it will go.

Also, you an tell things are really bad when people are ready to move to Texas. No state income tax = schools and services are third world abysmal. Plus you are on the front line of the immigration war with Mexico. "Is our children learning?" Nah, they ain't. But who carez, i gots me uh thirty-five hunnert square feet house. . .wid a pool. Shee-it!

Alright, that was a bit harsh. . . but these are bad times, ladies and gentlemen.

Two things, 292: first, most of us couldn't care less about the schools and services provided by the state/city in which we live--we're too busy to make use of the public services, and those of us who have kids send them to private schools if we know what's good for them; second, schools and services are "third world abysmal" in DC and NYC, too.

I think even in the firms that don't have any minimum billables, if you miss 1600 hours (including all the recruiting, pro bono, professional develoment, etc. ad nauseum that go into the number), the firm is looking to boot you. In good times, these people leave on their own, in bad they get shoves of varying degrees of force out the door. Trust me, if 20% of Skaddenites are being the shown the exits, the numbers in comparable firms wil be, well, comparable.

I've heard similar rumors about STB. I'm hoping some firm with a diversified client base and strong counter-cyclical practices (I'm looking at you, Weil, PW) to pay market and force everyone else's hand. But in reality, Sullivan is probably the last hope. But then again, you never know who could step up. Rough times make for dark horses.

Maybe S&C will match Skadden as a mea culpa for its bad reputation the past few years... think of the money they could save by not sending out those dumb bonsai trees every year.

No way S&C matches Skadden. All you have to do is look at what % of revenue comes from litigation (see the latest story in lawyer.com, the UK rag) -- s&c is only 30% from lit. And all that "high viz" work they were doing in transactional is NA -- they haven't gotten paid for it yet and it was at a steep discount.

cravath: litigation is 48% of revenues. stb is 33%. dpw wasn't even on the freakin list! skadden is 45%. so if cravath didn't match skadden, NO WAY s&c is -- especially with their biggest client (goldman) forgoing bonuses and trading at all-time lows. i wouldn't be surprised if s&c paid LESS than cravath -- they're probably taking so long to announce b/c they're debating it.

anyone heard anything about latham?? i may be cursing myself for choosing them over skadden...

WOW EVEN A DUMBASS PHARMA REP CAN GET A BIGGER BONUS THAN U ; WITH AN UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE FROM LSU

HAHAHA

The word on the street is that Latham is going to raise its hours bonus to 2200 from 2000 and if you only hit 1900 then you have 6 months to find other work.

THIS IS SPARTA!

Houston does suck but there are some fine ass bitches there. No doubt about that. But fuck that place, new orleans FTMFW in the south

106 -- why does your "tier 3" pay more than your "tier 2"? My sources tell me that firms like williams+connolly pay more than dpw ,csm, and stttb -- in cities with lower COL than NYC.

you need to swap your tier 2 and 3.

i just wiped me ass with a UT degree. Felt good

I love how Elie calls this a "[r]ace to the [b]ottom." If a race to the bottom in any other industry included firms only matching each other in lowering bonuses, not in laying people off, the employees would celebrate.

238 is an elitist asshole, probably from New York. Hey douchebucket, I bet you grew up in Manhattan and still don't have a car or driver's license. No wonder it takes you 3 hours to get across Houston; you tried to use public transportation because you were too scared to get behind the wheel of a car and couldn't handle the thought of having to merge onto the beautiful Houston freeways. If New York had a cock, it would be deep in your throat.

I love how New Yorkers blab about how great the city is, yet they forget that the entire island of Manhattan smells like urine.

Enjoy your tiny/shitty apartment on the upper west side, the freezing cold weather, the overcrowded subway, the rude people, and the confiscatory tax rates.

- Former Houstonian

Williams & Connolly - good work if you can get it. See also, Wachtell.

Ideally, the best firms want associates who work the hardest and are the most capable. Bonuses at big firms compensate associates that, although relatively fungible, are essential to making money for the partners.

Associates can opt to go to smaller firms where they get paid less in the short term for better long term partnership prospects. Many choose big firms instead for the bigger money in the short term despite WAY lower chances at making partner (at any firm) in the long run. This is a calculated tradeoff. The reason that partners and associates at the big firms generally make more money at all levels is because they are so highly leveraged. By cheaping out on bonuses and not recognizing the hard work of those associates that busted their asses to meet hours, the associates are being denied the benefit of their bargain - cash now. Total bull.

The "benefit of their bargain," 307? I hope you're in my contracts section.

Cravath fucked us all. Well done you sons of bitches.

No one is going to match Skadden. Not S&C. Not Weil or Cleary.

That said, we have already agreed to vote CSM 99 (or other random numbers) for fucking us all over. Most firms budgeted for a Skadden bonus, and CSM gave them cover to fuck us all over. I say let's fuck them back.

CSM to Vault 90!

291--- unlimited pro bono hours count towards Skaddens 1600. That reduces the risk of not meeting hours.

307--- "way lower chances of making partner at any firm"? Is this true, those of you who are actually lawyers (possibly including 307)? I knew I was signing up for low chances of making partner at a V-10, but if anything the impression I got was that I was improving my chances of making partner SOMEwhere...

297-- i'm 3L starting at Skadden next fall. all this makes me feel much better about my pick, and I picked Skadden over multiple V-10s before this all broke, but it's not dispositive. lost my latham and davis callbacks and liked both firms. I like Skadden (and the rep is overblown, from what I saw last summer) but even now I'd at least consider switching to one of the "more collegial" firms given the choice. but I'd lean to staying Skadden: this round may not say much about bonuses in five years but it probably has some predictive value over the next 1-3 years/as long as the economy is in the tank or in slow recovery. Its also as good an indicator of relative health as anything else we have to go by.

Lastly it says that despite the firms size Skaddens partners arent completely voracious. for those who thing Skadden has been "caught out," just remember that Skadden didn't have to announce first, it could have quietly waited. That it chose to announce first suggests some confidence and some class.

Cravath and the rest will be fine, in the grand sense. maybe there's a minor reshuffling of vault ranks for a year or two but bonuses are probably not having much effect on any firms vault ranking with the definite exception of Wachtell and the likely exception of Kirkland.

Actually while I'm sure Cravath isn't going anywhere, I do wonder if they're a a dinosaur and will slowly slide, in the absence of reform... but even if true it would be years before they drop even one vault spot. in the short term they're golden.

How much money did TPW actually save.

Cravath's vault ranking WON'T be fine because we are going to VOTE THEM 99.

YES WE CAN!

"Most firms budgeted for a Skadden bonus, and CSM gave them cover to fuck us all over. I say let's fuck them back. CSM to Vault 90!"
You're a fucking mullet-wearing retard. Why do you pretend to have a clue as to what the other firms budgeted for?
And do you really think CSM gives a shit whether you vote them 99 on vault? They'll still be #1 on partner prestige. Their partners will still be 3% richer at the end of the year.

It's really pathetic how much you blame your problems on them... if you don't like your bonus, blame your own firm and lateral to Skadden or Wachtell.

Fuck Cravath
Fuck STB
Fuck DPW

Anyone else want to be a shit firm? Let's see which "top" firms are cheap pieces of shit that can't pay market.

I work at one of the remaining top firms that hasn't announced. Billed over 2500 so far this year. If I get fucked with a half-skadden / Cravath-shit bonus, I'll be billing as little as possible in 09. Cravath is a disgrace.

311: Smaller firms are more inclined to bestow partnership upon those who can bring in business. If you had such a book of business, seems like the big firm you work at would have made you a partner there instead of letting you leave. Its not like you are going to take Walmart with you as a client when you go from [insert v20 firm here] to [insert TTT firm here]. This is the problem.

At big firms, you don't have nearly as much client contact or get nearly as much substantive experience in your formative early years as a lawyer. You write some briefs, do research, sit on calls, etc. Large corp clients who are willing to pay $300+/hr for 1st yr assoc time don't care about the add'l $300-500/hr it costs to have the big name partner argue the key motion, take the key deps, try the case, etc. The clients who DO care about saving the $$$ where they can generally go with smaller and less expensive shops in the first place.

So if you are not one of the few worthy of partnership at a biglaw firm, who is going to take you when you are shown the door?

Then why do so many lawyers go to biglaw? Because they get to start at 160K/yr + BONUS. Because even junior partners (at 2-track firms) can WITH BONUS earn close to 500K, which is sometimes > senior partners at smaller shops. So even if you can make partner somewhere, you will probably take a huge paycut.

You go to biglaw to take your duckets on the front end of your career and worry about the future later.

Hey 21, is you firm hiring? I am at SkaTTTen, and I am so pissed off right now. Can anyone confirm that I am getting fucked here? I am on track to bill about 1100 hours this year (actually, I have billed 1100 hours, and I am about to leave for Christmas, since I have nothing to do and I have 20 days of vacation to burn). So the head of my group called me into the office this afternoon and told me that, since I won't hit the 1600 hour threshold that the firm considers to be "reasonably busy," the firm is going to fuck me and only give me 75% of my bonus. Does anybody else share my fucking outrage? I know this place is a lot less prestigious than Cravath and Milbank and like, um, Kaye Scholer or whatever, but what did I do to deserve to get so fucked over? I mean, I did bill 1100 hours, so why the fuck do I only deserve $45,000 bonuts? Can someone like start a petition for me and the other folks in my spot? On the one hand, we spent most weekday afternoons this year in that rub n tug on 34th street; on the other hand, we don't deserve to get so ass-reamed just because the pardners couldn't keep us reasonable busy. I am furious and thinking about lateralling to CSM. Any thoughts?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27958458/?GT1=43001

Looks like Skadden has competition for top-market bonuses!

skaTTTen will surely be able to recruit all the first years and mid levels it needs for the next year on this bonii! (skaTTTen is hiring? right??? aren't they??? oh Lordy....)

Vote Cravath 99. Really. Do it.

CSM '99 ... YES WE CAN!

I'll do it. Who's with me?

Clients do not care who moves up or down in the Vault rankings, you stupid know-nothing amateurs. Vault is for law students who think that the real world operates like the U.S. News rankings. If you want to know what rankings clients actually value, see Chambers.

265,
A bit of tax knowledge for you: Everybody knows that S&C would not grant options on GS stock given the restrictions in Section 409A of the Internal Revenue Code.

265,
A bit of tax knowledge for you: Everybody knows that S&C would not grant options on GS stock given the restrictions in Section 409A of the Internal Revenue Code.

I love how people on this board talk about how prestige doesn't matter, and you can't pay people in prestige, and then try and start a movement to move Cravth to a lower vault ranking. You people are a pitiful joke. You are so consumed with prestife and how lesser of a person you perceive yourself that you don't work at a firm as Cravath that you don't even realize how obsessed YOU actually are with prestige, and even try and make stupid statements about how it does not affect you. You know who doesn't care about prestige? Cravath, Wachtell, S&C, and DPW-- because they are too buys actually doing the things that garner it.

--You are a loser--

Goodbye

323/324 - and who the hell would want stock options that far out of the money anyway?

323/324 - and who the hell would want stock options that far out of the money anyway?

In one of the earlier threads on this subject, I read that a V50-100 firm matched Skadden. I'm a 2L, so I am pleading near-ignorance about these matters. But I'm curious- why would this firm do such a thing, when Cravath et al seem to be setting the market rate? Is recruiting potential really the only explanation, or is it possible that there are some firms, such below-V50 one, that are just financially healthier than the vaunted (and Vaulted) Cravaths and DPWs?

Et tu, Davis Polk?

Sure, clients don't care, but Cravath definitely cares about all the stupid prestige rankings. One Cravath partner that I know from law school is openly dismissive of Wachtell as "a boutique." They consider themselves the top in prestige, and it burns them on a personal level that they are not ranked #1.

So I say we all give them the finger. CSM to 99!

I expect Debevoise to match Skadden based on various pieces of information. Seems that the current state of the firm's business can support Skadden bonuses, even if the firm has seen some decline against recent historical highs. Of course, there's always the possibility that Debevoise will match Cravath's bonus structure in order to save money -- but I don't believe that is necessary based on the firm's finances. And I would be surprised if it did that. Would be very out of character.

Last year, Debevoise planned to lead the bonus announcements with the supplemental bonus, but another firm (can't remember which) beat them to the punch by announcing first. I wouldn't be surprised if Debevoise (a) decided to continue to act above-board with its associates and match Skadden and (b) take the opportunity to show some leadership by matching Skadden.

So I'd bet on matching Skadden. Somebody's going to, after all. And the firm that does so is going to come out looking really good.

nice flame, 317

331 - What info? I hope Debevoise will match Skadden, but I don't think it will. Yes, lots of investigation work, but DP's annual rev always included a large chunk from corporate (read PE) work.

328, the simple answer is what you read was a lie. no firm has yet to match skadden

317 - your grief is understandable, but if I may, for a mere $45,000, you can hire for yourself a very nice secretary--nothing fancy, but a solid worker with about 20 years' experience--and you don't have to pay him/her any bonus at all.

Can everyone please stop acting like Skadden is so great for posting higher bonuses? They came out first, i.e. they didn't know they would get undercut. Hell, one of the Skadden partners may have heard a DPW and CSM partner telling each other "Yeah, 35 sounds like a great number" and then ran to tell the rest of the SASMF group that they should announce the same (wrong) number first! There is no merit in having the highest number if you're the one who comes out first when everyone else calls your bluff. The only thing you can do at that point is point the finger and spin it as if you're taking a cut for your employees.

Get real. It's SPIN.

I can't wait to read the comments about the Christmas party being canceled!

does anyone know abt what cleary is proposing to do or when they are going to decide?

Are the partner's bonuses being slashed???

Are the partner's bonuses being slashed??? How much do they make??