any news on latham?

This is really disappointing. The litigation department, at least, had a banner year. Everyone around here is pretty bummed.

What a slap in the face to all the associates who worked and billed their asses off this year. Paul Weiss is truly the sweatshop of all sweatshops.

Hey 1, close the window, you're letting all the stank out!

Corporate did ok as well....several associates at 3,000 plus

Cravath ruined it for everyone. They made paying half-skadden a safe bet. Special disdain should (must!) be reserved for Cravath.

ghashes teeth and brandishes sword. snarls. spits. curses. screams. beats chest. give the evil eye.

4, what are they going to do, leave? Oh wait.
Supply and demand at work. Amazing.

Get over it people, you knew it was coming.

7: I wish nothing but horrible deaths for the partners at Cravath.....but doesn't excuse the action by the PW partners

I actually really like this title. Good job Elie.

"Unfortunately, this morning another top firm fell into the Cravath morass"

This bonus whining (from people who don't get one) is going to look quaint after the January layoff/eval bloodletting.

And the loser is. . .Skadden, for paying well above market rate.

People insist on calling it luck.

8. Exactly.

Akin Gump bonus this year is an autography by Vernon Jordan and a field trip to the white house.

where is the gov. blagojevich story ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Lord knows I know nothing about anti-trust. Not my area. But the salary and bonus situation--does it ever get to the point where it can be called price fixing?

8: No...we won't leave....those that worked hard will just work less hard....let documents go before proofing or checking....give in to the other side of a deal instead of pushing back....morale is dead and I can't think of a reason to give a shit

Lord knows I know nothing about anti-trust. Not my area. But the salary and bonus situation--does it ever get to the point where it can be called price fixing?

18, that troll is getting old.

Ebenezer Cravath ruined christmas!

At least the Paul Weiss staff attorneys get full bonuses.

I hope all the partners at Cravath get cancer in their genitals.

Breaking news!

Evan Chesler to appear on the cover of this month's Poof! magazine, the commemorative Illusionist of the Year edition.

He made bonuses and Christmas to disappear. He's magic!

19, how about the thought that you're a FBU and can be canned at any time? Sure, working for a reward makes for happier associates than terror does, but terror gets the job done and done cheaper.

Welcome to the new Biglaw. Everything you ever worried it might be, and then some.

19, how about the thought that you're a FBU and can be canned at any time? Sure, working for a reward makes for happier associates than terror does, but terror gets the job done and done cheaper.

Welcome to the new Biglaw. Everything you ever worried it might be, and then some.

17,

Elie doesn't believe that democrats in Illinois could be even more corrupt than the GOP.

Paul Weiss is an absolutely horrible place to work.

I wanted my Vernon Jordan autobiography autographed. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

19...you are a loser

19, you do that and you will get fired. In language you'll understand, that means a bonus of $0. Partners and clients are not idiots and they will notice subpar work, even if you manage to get away with it for a while.

Good luck with that!

Blagojevich!

Illinois officially takes over from Louisiana as worst state ever.

19...you are a loser

i know i'm repeating others, but didn't their litigation department go off this year with the amount of work they had - people i know were working their pretty much 24/7. it seems harsh

So Skadden no longer has an obligation to wipe the Ass Cravath?

I think that I, like most of my colleagues here, take a lot of pride in our work, so my work product certainly isn't going to become poorer, but to the extent this bonus is forward-looking and reflects what I'll bill next year as opposed to what I did this year (an absurd number of hours -- 3k+), I should expect next year to be a lot more humane, right? Right.

#2: Latham is not now, nor ever been, a compensation leader. New York will get the Cravath scale, and other offices will be lucky to get even that.

I heard they beefed up staffing in transactional which canceled out any litigation gains.

Other than Kirkland, which firms are NOT lockstep?

illinois governor arrested on charges he tried to sell obama's senate seat. post mysTTTal?

Message to people who billed their butts off this past year: SUCKERS!

Who is less funny and more annoying - Doug_Henning_Magic_Associate or that whiney bitch law student?

Who is less funny and more annoying - Doug_Henning_Magic_Associate or that whiney bitch law student?

41: He's a dem. No need to post. It makes the Messiah look bad. Get with the program!

Firms will have some explaining to do when they report record PPPs after giving associates the bonus-shaft.

MysTTTal - Dealbreaker beat you to posting the IL Gov.'s arrest. I think I may just start going there to get my legal news. TTThanks.

Can someone at ATL write a post about the Satriani v. Coldplay lawsuit? The youtube video comparing the two now has over 1.5 million hits. As a big Satriani fan, I am curious to hear the different sides of this case and Coldplay's possibly ripping off Satriani's music. Maybe a couple of comments will offer something other than "first," "not first," "pretzles," "MysTTTal," and "douche."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ofFw9DKu_I

This whole bonus discussion is hysterical. My guess is that the same associates who are complaining about the bonus structure are the ones who believe they aren't expendable, and that they are actually important to their firm. Insisting on landing a job at a run-of-the-mill, personality-less, NY firm entitles you to one thing, not practicing law for 3 years. Your firm doesn't care about you.

46, firm explanation:

We paid lower bonuses and you guys are still around working for us. Case closed.

Paul Weiss = racist sweatshop where Hofstra rejects go to die.

49: I agree our firm definitely does not care about us

Get with the program, 48. Douche is so last month - the new insult is TWATWAFFLE

Is getting fired really that bad? At least I could go back to the gym, eating meals with loved ones, not sleeping with my blackberry on the night table, not wondering if I am going to go home at night, not worrying whether I am going to have a heart attack after the third straight all-nighter....is getting fired really that bad?

Great Ferris Bueller reference!
Big Boy gots jokes!

Great Ferris Bueller reference!
Big Boy gots jokes!

TTT

50, right. But how do they explain the PPP? If it was really about not having layoffs, how do you explain partners getting the same or similar PPP this year as last year?

Don't get me wrong, if PPP takes a hit and associates get half-bonuses, that's fine. But if PPP takes no hit and associates billing 3000+ hours get half-bonuses, well, I just think the "we didn't fire you" excuse may not go over so well.

Any word on when Jones Day issues its compensation letters?!?!?

54 How will you pay for those meals you are going to eat with loved ones?

TTTerrible reporting mysTTTal. Blagojevich story...NOW!!

58, how much profits the partners make is irrelevant to how much they should pay the hired help.
They only need to pay the hired help as little as necessary to keep them still around and working for them.

When you get a raise, do you go to your landlord and give him an extra $200/month in rent out of good will? No, you pay as little rent as you can get away with.

You seem to think you're entitled to share in the firm's profits. That's wrong because you don't own equity.

60: The same way I did before I went into this shit life...I go out and kill my own dinner...i.e. go hustle for my food....Most people at PW and other firms are intelligent and creative and can fend for themselves....the problem is that this place knocks so much life out of you that after a year or two, you are left without any spirit or creativity....

its a death trap...its a suicide rap....we have to get out while we're young, cause tramps like us, baby we were born to run--the Boss

What about Debevoise?

38, while Latham is not necessarily a compensation leader, their bonuses (based on 1950 minimum billables) often exceed the Cravath model in NY, and often exceed the market in other markets. While not as high as Kirkland, merit-based pay tends to lead to a higher average bonus at Latham compared to peer firms.

CADWALADER MATCHES SKADDEN!

"What about Debevoise?" LOL!

58, don't you get it? This is about the fact that we don't have to share as much of the firm's profits as they used to--associates have no other options in this market.

You won't work less, or you're fired. You won't create crappy work, or you're fired. You just won't get paid as much out of what you earn for the firm. Get it now?

All the semantics re "market" are bullshit. Either way, some firms are higher than others, and everyone knows where they all presently sit. Se even accepting that the "Market" is in the dumpster where Cravath has gone to die with its former clients, the bonus landscape can be described as follows:

200% of market : Skadden

Above market: Orrick, MoFo, Boies, (Likely K&E)

Market: Cravath and the rest of the new NYC 2nd tier.

The rest

Who wants to go start a business with me? I can't take this crap anymore.

So fire me motherfucker

At least here in Dallas we can live comfortably and not have to worry about bonuses. You would be surprised at the standard of living here. We actually have a lot of classy stuff.

66, you're kidding right? Well, they did fore 100+ aassociates so I guess they have money to spare.

Dealer (Management Committee): I'm saying...if I'm gonna handle your package, at least split me an even 50...I gotta take care of my people

Marlo (High-Billing Partners): Then short your people

Dealer: But they my people

Marlo: Then short yourself.... the split is 60/40.... you want better... tool up and wait for Chris, Snoop and the rest of my people to come holla at your people.

Snoop (lateral partner placement specialist): And we will be brief with all you motherfukers... I think you know.

So fire me....get it over with....put me out of my misery...but I doubt it....at least here...PW laying off would require balls...It would be the first v15 to go and the one thing that PW associates have learned from this bonus news is that our partners will not stick their heads out of the foxhole unless Cravath and all the others give them permission to do so....so fire me....please

72 -- rodeos are not classy. HTH

Cadwalader will probably pay Cravath level bonuses. It might be unseemly to match Skadden, given the extent of the layoffs earlier this year. On the other hand, they probably can't go below Cravath level, given the relatively decent severance package given to the attorneys they let go.

Despite the layoffs and all the speculation on ATL over the firm's soundness, Cadwalader seems to be coming through this okay while attaining more benevolent image. They will probably pay a market bonus, and they have shown they are willing (and able) to take care of their people in offering a top of the market severance package. Other biglaw firms have anyway followed with their own layoffs, and it isn't clear whether they are supporting their people in the way Cadwalader has.

CADWALADER MATCHES SKADDEN!

ONE! ONE MORE FIRM PAYING CRAVATH LEVEL BONUSES!!!!! AH AH AH!!!!!!!

To help Elie COUNT, here are the biglaw firms that are paying full-bonus:

Skadden! ONE!! ONE FIRM!!!!! AH AH AH!!!!!

Here are the biglaw firms that are paying half-bonus:

Cravath! ONE!
Simpson Thacher! TWO!
Davis Polk! THREE!
Cleary! FOUR!
Dewey! FIVE!
Milbank! SIX!
Clifford Chance! SEVEN!
Willkie! EIGHT!
White & Case! NINE!
Paul Weiss! TEN! TEN FIRMS!!!! AH AH AH AH AH!!!!!!!!!

Which scale is market? AH AH AH!!

- Count Layoffula

K&E bonus meeting this afternoon in Chicago!

Oh Jebus Christ, no one is going to match Skadden. Some non-lockstep firms may come in above Cravath et al., but no one - NO ONE - is going to match Skadden. They don't have to, so why on earth would they?

I'm trying to organize a strike. 3000 hrs and this is all we get!?

Why don't you just wait until PPP numbers are announced before complaining that partners are greedy?

Also, if you are billing so many hours and don't want to support anyone else in the firm, why don't you just open your own firm where your earnings will go into your own pockets? Maybe one day (which may come already next year) your department may be slow and you may be happy that there are other departments working hard to support your job and bonus.

#71 - You are the bomb. Couldn't agree more.

Why don't you just wait until PPP numbers are announced before complaining that partners are greedy?

Also, if you are billing so many hours and don't want to support anyone else in the firm, why don't you just open your own firm where your earnings will go into your own pockets? Maybe one day (which may come already next year) your department may be slow and you may be happy that there are other departments working hard to support your job and bonus.

82...even better than a strike....half the bonus...half the level of scrutiny...we come in at 9:30 and leave at 5:30....they only own us for 8 hours a day rather than 24 hours per day....what price for our lives?

does any S&C associate think that it's at all possible (ie, over 10% chance) that they will match Skadden?

72, you sir are an ass. Stay classy Dallas!

I friggin' love Count Layoffula, and I'm not afraid to admit it.

83: I couldn't agree more...I have a call into the real estate broker about commercial office space...square footage in cheap these days

Why don't you just wait until PPP numbers are announced before complaining that partners are greedy?

Also, if you are billing so many hours and don't want to support anyone else in the firm, why don't you just open your own firm where your earnings will go into your own pockets? Maybe one day (which may come already next year) your department may be slow and you may be happy that there are other departments working hard to support your job and bonus.

78 Nailed it. Nailed it right in a CWT NY associate's ass!!

NAILED IT!

91: Greed isn't the issue...getting taken advantage of and fucked in the ass....that's the issue

I love how all the associates are talking about striking or working less, but at the end of the day they will still do everything that they are told and bill 14 hours a day.

Let's face the facts. People who followed the easy OCI path to biglaw NYC firms with lockstep compensation are not the most free-thinking, initiative-seizing, risk-seeking folks in the world.

Doug Henning Magic Associate sucks.

Whiney bitch law student sucks.

Count Layoffula rules!

Just be thankful that you dont practice in toilet law. My firm announced a 3 figure bonus yesterday. My bonus is smaller than my monthly student loan payment.

Just be thankful that you dont practice in toilet law. My firm announced a 3 figure bonus yesterday. My bonus is smaller than my monthly student loan payment.

Bonus = hours compensation..... 1,000 extra hrs = $17,500 = $17.5/hr = contract rate.

PW = contract atty firm?

$17.5/hr

Senior associates at S&C, in their delusion, expect Skadden bonus. Everyone else disagrees.

S&C Lawyer

They just fucked the people that they rely on to make this pyramid scheme work.....stupid move

I <3 Count Layoffula!!!

yes 101, they are worried about you. go ahead strike, I will work for no bonus.

Can we stop whining about document review at Paul Weiss now that the associates themselves are treated just as badly?

$17.5 = worse than contract rate.

79 is awesome.

so much depends
upon

a red stock
ticker

william careless williams

People, those of you focused on PPP for '08 are forgetting that associates will get their usual salary increases in '09 and beyond because of your increases in seniority. Partners, on the other hand, will have a smaller pie to distribute in '09 and probably beyond and so will take a major CUT in pay. Saving $10 million this year by cutting bonuses will help us deal with a real decline in income in future years. (Not that I think any focus on PPP is relevant in the first place, for some of the reasons articulated in prior posts. We didn't pay bonuses at all until recently when one firm that was bleeding associates took the drastic retention measure of paying a bonus -- which of course backfired because everyone else just matched, making it ineffective.)

Stop complaining. "If you go to the Burlington Coat Factory with [a Half-Skadden bonus] in your pocket, you are literally a king."

The new firm chair raised our expectations by telling us at a firm luncheon a couple of weeks ago that PW had a great year and brought in $650m in revenue. Bollocks.

Considering that almost all the corporate associates here billed at least 2000 hours and the litigation associates a significant amount more, I think we do have the right to feel some level of disatisfaction. Esp. since we're billing twice as much as the people at Cravath and being paid the same as them.

However, re-hashing some of the other comments -- It's too bad, suck it up, we're cogs in a machine, what can we do? I won't be as dumb as some of the other commenters and go on "strike" (too much pride to do shitty work), but I'm sure as hell not going to spend a single hour recruiting for this place next year. Oh, and they can forget about any client referrals once I leave this place.

-- PW Corp. Assoc.

People, please, its freakin supply and demand. Supply of associates looking for work is way up and demand for associates to do work is way down. That means that firms can buy you for less. Consider yourself lucky to be sold.

-Keynes

Skadden made its bonus announcement fully expecting that other firms would pay the same. It miscalculated, but will not revoke, because of the awful PR that would create. Had Skadden partners known that Cravath would pay half, they would have too.

Stop complaining. "If you go to the Burlington Coat Factory with [a Half-Skadden bonus] in your pocket, you are literally a king."

it's back to the stone age, boys and girls

Texas bonus = Extttra large tubs of AIDS medication and BBQ sauce

PPP took a straw, reached all the way over to Associate Bonus milkshake, and PPP DRANK YOUR MILKSHAKE!!!

59 -- usually right before Christmas.

111 nails it.

Skadden is a lesson to all you budding negotiators out there. Don't act first with zero information.

Stop complaining. "If you go to the Burlington Coat Factory with [a Half-Skadden bonus] in your pocket, you are literally a king."

Who wants to stone some devils with me, hajjjj style? Come on, who's with me?

Reverend Wright, no Reft. Go reft!

54, if your life is that miserable and you don't have the sac to quit, you deserve everything they throw at you. Begging them to fire you. Jesus.

good job 74... we need more quotes from The Wire.

"elite firms like Skadden"

EPIC LOL

Skadden is the weakest, least exclusive of the v10. Anyone who works at any of the other firms got an offer from Skadden.

Skadden just had the misfortune of announcing first. Had Cravath gone first, Skadden would have fallen in line. You're giving them way to much credit.

paul weiss sucks a fat one. skadden is for pussies.

'Elite' should not be in the same sentence as 'Skadden' unless the words 'not' or 'except' is in there.

Here here, 109

114 and 118 are nailing it and nailing it some more.

really 122? really?

really 122, really?

40 - I am newish here, but my understanding is that Jones Day is not lockstep. Anyone know more details?

59 - I am at JD and have not heard anythign either.

122 nailed it.

Misreading the market is not being elite; it's a sign of being poorly run.

They made a bid for labor twice as high as they needed to, wasting millions. The partners not on the compensation committee are going to see that this money is put back in their pockets via stealth layoffs to trim the fat.

Mega chance for Powerhouse firm Alexander & Catalano to blow the metaphorical socks of the entire legal industry.

They are the heavy hitters. They WILL beat Skadden.

Alexander & Catalano > Skadden > CSM > S&C > ALL others

127- Yes, really
128- No, not really
130- You nailed it

- 122

I dont know who is going to post at 138 but i bet it will be HILLARRRIOUS. Im going to check back every 38 seconds to see.

I hope its another funny comment about how skadden sucks and how much it sucks to not get fully bonuses.

I CANT WAIT!!!!

j..jjjjjjj JIZZZ in my pants!

I agree with Spencer.

131 - you're way off. The Heavy Hitters dont need to give any big bonus. They have associates clawing at their door for jobs. They are practically paying A&C to work for them.

129 - "Mid-December" you get a compensation letter from the managing partner of the firm.

129 - "Mid-December" you get a compensation letter from the managing partner of the firm.

I wish I had mad prestige like 122.

I agree with Spencer.

109 -- any idea how much lit associates billing (on average)?

wow

I wish I worked for a better-managed more prestigious firm like yours that paid me less! Darn!

I thought that was illegal in Texas?

I wish I worked for a better managed, more prestigious law firm that paid me less, like you. Darn!

So, can we stop calling these "bonuses," and start calling them "retention payments"? Apparently that's what they are: they don't correlate to the firm's performance, and are only paid to the degree necessary to keep employees.

I wish I worked for a better managed, more prestigious law firm that paid me less, like you. Darn!

145, sure go right ahead.

"Poor" Skadden associates. Their firm is so mismanaged that they are getting double the bonus of other more well managed firms. Sucks to be a Skadden associate. More like "rich" Skadden associates.

The Skadden hating is hysterical. The fact is Skadden is not as exposed to the financial services sector as many of its peer firms. Is it hurting from the financial crisis? Sure. But not as much (proportionately) as many peers. Many Skadden associates still sacrificed nights and weekends this year as did their colleagues at other firms.

Is Wachtell stupid for paying "above" market because it can? No. Are Kirkland and other non-lockstep firms stupid for paying "above" market to high billers? No. So why is Skadden stupid for choosing to pay above market in a year when its diversity and strengths allowed it to outperform many peer firms? The answer is its not.

If you think that the Skadden executive committee was totally blindsided by the Cravath announcement you are wrong.

The associates at Skadden will take their double market bonuses as a thank you for a job well done.

Unbelievable. Litigation associates there are incredibly busy. There is no correlation with what most associates are billing and these numbers. How unfair that everyone has to suffer because corporate associates in other NY firms are billing 1000 hours or less.

145 -- They aren't "retention payments." As we've seen, too many people are staying already. That's why firms are laying people off. Turnover is down because associates can't find anything better to move to. They are more "recruiting" payments to show future classes where they slot in to the Biglaw hierarchy.

- Out of work headhunter

149= skadden loser.

149 -

Another point is that some commenters seem to think that firms who pay out less in bonus are sticking that cash in a piggy bank in case things get worse. But they're not. Firms don't invest by building new plants or whatnot. Any money not being paid to associates now is being allocated to partners. Maybe Skadden has more money to spread around. Or maybe they're just more generous to their associates.

It's strange times when a big firm is getting bashed for paying *more* than everyone else.

149= skadden loser.

To all you Half-Skadden Bonus Apologists: Shut the F up. You obviously do NOT work at a top 10 or so firm that will not, under any circumstances short of the Apocolypse, layoff associates. My job is entirely secure. I billed MORE than last year at a billing rate HIGHER than last year, as did a majority of my colleagues. My firm has announced publicly to its associates that it has matched or exceeded last year in total revenue. To be rewarded with the dripping, smelly, ass-rag of Cravath's puny, PPP-protecting bonus is an insult of the highest order.

Skadden was not stupid for announcing a full bonus. The firm is projecting strength and security at a time when its supposedly more prestigious peer firms are wilting under the strain of their financial missteps. Cravath is projecting weakness as are the firms that followed. Why are you Apologists standing up for a firm that is obviously hurting from its lack of diversification? You Apologists astound me with your blindness to reality.

HAHA 149 your a skadden LOOSER!!! IDIOT!

Why don't you just take all your so called "money" and go "buy things". And when you buy them you can think about how you are a big fat looser, who just happens to be buying things, with that money, that makes you a looooooooser.

LOOSER!

149 did not nail it. He got Flomed.

I wish I worked for Skadden

PW Associate

Shucks, my firm messed up by paying me too much money.

I think I'll quit and go work for PW. Then I can take that prestige to the bank.

i only billed 1500 this year. thank god for lockstep!

I just want to say, pre-emptively, that 173 is an ass-tard

Count Layoffula is fucking awesome.

159, Maybe we can buy houses in New Orleans and in the French countryside while I go adopt 5 different kids from all around the world?

I hate getting paid so much $$. I don't know what to do with myself.

Wouldn't be surprised if Latham matches Skadden. Not because they are overly generous, but because they have minimum billables and a sizable portion of their associates will not get it, so they don't have to pay out "lock-step" to everyone.

109 -- My favorite line from Karp's speech was "we will continue to be the firm that client's want to hire and law students want to work for." I think the former will probably continue to be true. The latter? It's tough to convince some smart-ass kid that the quality of work here will make up for the $20k difference in his income.

140 -- Can't give you a number, but it's a lot. In the class of 2007, which is very small, I'd put the average lit hours for this year at somewhere between 2400 and 2900. I'm not kidding. Rest of lit associates are probably in the 2000 to 2400 range.

One thing I have to say about this place is that at least the partners I work with work even more than the associates do, for what its worth.

Can someone explain something to me... I'm a rising 3rd year at a top tier big law firm... I'm very familiar with why salaries, signing bonuses, etc... are (for the most part) standardized across the market. ... but how can a firm justify matching market bonuses?

Isn't the very notion of a bonus that it's a means for the firm to compensate its employees when it had a good year (less so when it had a bad year). I understand, obviously, that this means there will be fluctuations... but I'm sure some firms saw little to no dip in revenues, while others took huge hits this year. The very premise of matching market bonuses requires the assumption that firms all came out somewhat the same in the end. It's seems COMPLETELY disingenuous.

163 - I'm thinking about giving it all back to the partners, so that I don't feel so bad when my prestigious, elite friends remind me that I work at SkaTTTen. Because, you know, it stings...

165: All true....It is like a tomb in here today

Schulte matched Cravath. Joy.

2400-2900 is an atrocity. F that or show me the Wachtell comp.

164,
No firm is matching Skadden. Not because they can't, but because they don't have to.

Some good news...

West-coast litigation boutique MTO just announced six new partners when over the last 5 or so years only 2 or 3 per year were announced. Does this say that litigation firms are insulated from the recession?

Good news for associate bonuses as well? Hopes are higher now with the new partner announcements. We'll see.

i hope the partners at Cravath and their half-Skadden followers who set bonuses burn in hell

Also, confirmed on 169.

if a firm has a meeting and informs its associates that FY 2008 was better than FY 2007, how can they give smaller bonuses in '08 and not expect people to freak out? that would appear to be the epitome of greed.

153 - 2008 may have been a decent year for some first with some (not all) attorneys billing more hours than in 2007.

But if you read the newspaper, 2009 does not look very good, but obviously the fixed costs (including associate salaries) stay the same. Also, do you even know how much in fees your firm actually collects (hours billed vs. hours paid)? It is not so uncommon right now to hear from clients that they have a "cash-flow problem".

I tell you: By June 2009 you will be happy that despite your 2,500 hours in 2008 your firm was careful in bonuses.

149 - Skadden did not choose to pay double the market. If you think they did, then you are high. If you disagree, please provide something remotely credible to support your statement that the Skadden executive committee was not blindsided by the brilliant (and quite unexpected) Cravath pre-emptive strike the next day.

Best part about this:

Brand new associate coming off of clerkship, bonus in August 08 = 50k

8th Year Senior Associate billing 2500 hours at $500/hr, bonus in December 08 = $32.5k

111, 117, 122, 152 all losers not working at Skadden.
177, another loser who is probably a Cravath troll and will go to extremes not to admit Cravath screwed its associates and even argue that it was brilliant in doing that. You know who else is brilliant, China for making workers work for 16 hours a day--if brilliant means good for the country (firm) finances.

Really, most of us BigLaw associates will have to come to terms with three things, among many others (in case you haven't so far): (i) None of your respective firms are your friends, (ii) some firms are better in compensating its associates and it may be a good idea to be a part of them if compensation is the most important thing, (iii) none of us are yet partners and even though it might hurt to accept this we do not know what goes in partner meetings (especially those we were not a part of) so if unless you were in the Skadden partner's meeting or Cravath's or Wachtell's where they decided on bonuses-shut the f*#!# up youhave no idea.

So the firms are paying the same high 50k clerkship bonuses to new junior associates but paying less than that as bonuses to the senior litigation associates working 2500-3000 hours? Crazy!

lol at elie thinking skadden is "elite"

NYC is for suckers

This is the market bonus. Skadden is paying above-market. Skadden cost itself a lot of money with its unnecesary above market bonus structure.

Every great empire/country/society is built upon the backs of slaves.

165 -- I've heard plenty of horror stories from the lit associates. I was under the impression that the lit number was 2600 and up. The highest billing corp associate for this year reached 3000 some time in September or October, if I remember correctly.

I wonder what they will say about the jump in PPP numbers at the state-of-the-firm address next year? (assuming they even have one) I'd like to see Karp explain that away...

165 -- I've heard plenty of horror stories from the lit associates. I was under the impression that the lit number was 2600 and up. The highest billing corp associate for this year reached 3000 some time in September or October, if I remember correctly.

I wonder what they will say about the jump in PPP numbers at the state-of-the-firm address next year? (assuming they even have one) I'd like to see Karp explain that away...

-- PW Corp. Assoc. (109)

The PW lit associates have plenty to gripe about. Most are billing ridiculous numbers and encouraged/forced to take on way too much work this year. And for what? So that partners can maintain their 2.6 m PPP? I understand at firms where people are not busy or billing under 2000 hours that bonuses should be lower, but it's unfair not to give better bonuses to people who are working day and night and have incredibly high billing rates.

1-186. Right on. Nailed it all the way. Couldn't be more true.

Advice being given to management committees right now: http://www.bmacewen.com/blog/archives/2008/12/whats_your_attrition_rate.html

You guys are so funny; the sense of entitlement is staggering.

We bill long hours because we take pride in our work; we work for biglaw because we want options when we're ready; we participate in the hierarchy because that's the system on the ground when we leave school.

As a manager, I would like to think I would always share a proportionate share with my employees. But I bristle when people expect something, that vernacularly is a gift.

Grow up - you are not special, you are not indispensable, and if you really have such a problem with a paltry 20K, move on.

BTW: 20k is what some people make in a single year ... what world do you people live in?

You guys are so funny; the sense of entitlement is staggering.

We bill long hours because we take pride in our work; we work for biglaw because we want options when we're ready; we participate in the hierarchy because that's the system on the ground when we leave school.

As a manager, I would like to think I would always share a proportionate share with my employees. But I bristle when people expect something, that vernacularly is a gift.

Grow up - you are not special, you are not indispensable, and if you really have such a problem with a paltry 20K, move on.

BTW: 20k is what some people make in a single year ... what world do you people live in?

You guys are so funny; the sense of entitlement is staggering.

We bill long hours because we take pride in our work; we work for biglaw because we want options when we're ready; we participate in the hierarchy because that's the system on the ground when we leave school.

As a manager, I would like to think I would always share a proportionate share with my employees. But I bristle when people expect something, that vernacularly is a gift.

Grow up - you are not special, you are not indispensable, and if you really have such a problem with a paltry 20K, move on.

BTW: 20k is what some people make in a single year ... what world do you people live in?

Senior associates are receiving 22% less cotal omp than last year. That's a big cut.

And you can't compare us to those who made their beds and choose to earn 20k/year.

Greedy, greedy, greedy. Be happy you have a job. Be thankful for good health. You don't know what life has to offer. Nothing is a guarantee.

I heard a rumor from a very reliable source that Paul Weiss is going to lay off most of its staff attorneys soon. I also heard that corporate associates will need to be cut sometime in June next year if current projections for corporate dept revenue turn out to be accurate. lit associates are fine - busy, busy, with averages up from last year.

PW staff attorneys got a $12K bonus

195 - I heard a rumor from a very reliable source that you're a PW staff attorney.

176 - If that memo had referred to the fact that bonuses are being reduced (by around 70% in some cases for senior associates) because hard times are coming, so $$ are being put in a reserve to avoid layoffs, I bet the response would be very different. But from what I hear, there has been no explanation at all for the cut other than "matching the market". Apparently, the identical memo was sent around last year when bonuses were through the roof. And based on some comments on this blog, it sounds like the firm had one of its best fiscal years ever. Hence the assumption that the money "saved" in bonuses is going straight into partners' pockets.

So yes, 186 and 187 - it will be interesting to see what the PPP is, if it's ever announced.

178 - 8th year associate billing is more like $625 to $650. So someone billing 2,500 is making over $1.5MM for the firm in a year. And they got a $32.5K bonus. That's 2%. Once can assume that 2% is the value that's attached to the time spent over and above a "normal" workday - the hours spent working between 7 pm and 9 am by non-partners. I'm sure clients will be surprised to hear that, and would be happy to have their fees cut to 2% of normal rates for those hours too.

Seems like the folks who are most likely to suffer are clients, if associates take the view (which is not illogical) that the bonuses mean the firm is expecting its associates to work an average 8-hour day going forward, rather than the typical 16 hours plus.

it's funny how people praise the "collegiality" fostered by lockstep until they realize things work exactly the same at all big firms: some people slack off, some are average and some take on way too much (by choice or not).

all that "collegiality" turns into bitterness once you've slaved away for 2500 and got the same bonus as someone billing 1500.

PW has no official hours requirement, although 2000 is encouraged. If all an associate is taking home as a bonus after taxes is 10-18k, and the associate has about a 1% chance of making partner, what is the incentive to work more than 2000 hours?

200!

200 - Not being sacked.

Paul Weiss is inhumane.

195 - who is this 'reliable source'?

202, has PW sacked anyone though? I don't know of any layoffs.

Confirmed that Senior Staff Attorneys I know received 14-16K. As a midlevel, to be paid the same as a staff attorney is outrageous. I hope they are all fired soon. Karp loves to brag how PW is litigation firm of the year, but if so, they can pay associates more than their fucking staff attorneys.

Screw you 205. We aint going no where. But I do love the fact that I leave everyday by ^PM and get the same bonus as you. Lets do lunch in the Jury Room - I'd love to watch you cry.

Once again, 195--who is this source? And who will handle all the work that we do. Every SA is busy every day, all day.

Once again, 195--who is this source? And who will handle all the work that we do. Every SA is busy every day, all day.

Once again, 195--who is this source? And who will handle all the work that we do. Every SA is busy every day, all day.

Once again, 195--who is this source? And who will handle all the work that we do. Every SA is busy every day, all day.

204 - I'm sure PW, like other firms, will promptly sack someone who ducks work wholesale.

Fuck you 206 and all your Hofstra/St. John's/Touro colleagues. Go back to the concourse or wherever the fuck you do zantaz.

You guys are the laziest piece of shit ever. Especially those three Staff Attorney fat chicks who are always in the Jury Room. Don't you have some fucking work to do?

is this true, staff attorneys and associates getting the same bonus? Wtf, I passed on more than one V10 firm for PW for this bullshit?

Not to mention having to ROUTINELY explain to family and friends that "Paul Weiss" is the name of a law firm, and not some solo jewish practioner.

Screw this. We got fucked on the bonus.

Karp is a prick. To do this after his song and dance last month about the "Paul Weiss Family" is total bullshit. At the very least, they owe us an explanation about why they cut. If revenue is at $650 million, if there are multiple corporate associates 2700+, if litigation is getting killed with the work, then why did we cut?

You're all a bunch of overpaid whiners -- why can't you understand that? You're lucky to get any bonuses at all. Some of you will be let go over the next few months as biglaw firms start to jettison the deadwood. Sucks to be you.

For all of you PW associate whiners, I will say to you what a PW partner said to staff attorneys last year when staff attorneys complained that their 2007 bonuses weren’t in line with what the firm gave other lawyers – if you don’t like it, leave.

Unlike PW associates, PW staff attorney bonuses are merit-based. Translation: every staff attorney that received a bonus performed his or her job at a high-level. Poor performing staff attorneys received nothing. Can all PW associates say the same?

Instead of begrudging staff attorneys their merit-based bonuses, why don’t you single out your associate peers who aren’t pulling their weight…LOL? That way when any layoffs come, your job may be spared and quite possibly your 2009 market rate bonus. Don’t like informing on your colleagues? Here’s another idea – beg PW to switch to merit-based bonuses for associates in 2009. That way the associate deadwood will no longer cash in on your hard labor.

Think of it this way, my 2008 bonus makes up for the below market bonus I received in 2007 and it amounts to $1 for every time I had to explain to a PW associate what bate stamping means.

To 195, your source is wrong. Ask any partner on the management committee or staff attorney committee, staff attorneys are the most profitable lawyers at PW (and my source is a member of the staff attorney committee). PW partners are too smart to get rid of such a profit source. Now that Karp is chair, staff attorneys are in a firmer position because he, more than many, knows the value that staff attorneys add to PW.

While I suspect that there will be some trimming of the PW fat in 2009, cuts will come at all non-partner levels. A hint as to how PW will handle layoffs – think back to PW’s handling of the downsizing of its receptionist pool – some were offered packages and some were not.

To 212, while you may be a graduate of a top tier law school, tread carefully where you sling mud because a number of your associate colleagues and PW partners attended schools that you disrespect.

-- A Proud Graduate of a 3rd Tier Law School whose merit justifies every $ of his 2008 bonus

Does Mr. Weiss offer mustache rides? If so, what is the cost? Thank you.