first

Mad First!!

First?

shit hit the fan son

I almost wonder when Skadden will go to Half-Skadden these days.

knock me over with a feather.

Mad First!!

"detials"?

That's fuckin right, #2; crown me!

GAME OVER.

Thanks for playing.

That's fuckin right #s 1-6; crown me!

Finis. Nobody can save us now.

"Dedication to work loses"

How so?

Half-Skadden confirmed.

So happy I billed 2500 hours this year.

Jones Day: Dec 18 and still nothing. Friday suprise?

THIRTEENTHASAURUS REX!

I really thought that S&C was going to top Cravath (which is why their announcement took so long). I guess I was wrong.

CWT = S&C

"We will update as more detials become available."

Why don't they just leave the tials alone??

19 - But CWT has an hours requirement and S&C does not. So S&C is still more generous.

Where's Weil?

massive NYC exodus looming.

That's fuckin right #s 1-6; crown me!

Orrick associates who hit 2,000 - Win.

What does Half- Skadden mean? Does that mean half of Skadden's bonus?

Isn't Jones Day all secretive and indivdualized and whatnot? Or did they just make that up when I interviewed there?

I'd be shocked if Weil departed from the market. It's always been a follower.

Elie, youre an idiot. Tell your friends that were formerly employed by Citi, GS etc just how NYC associates lose.

I am loving this; time to shake up BigLaw. You bitches, like dinosaurs, gotta make way for the mammals.

Why has no one mentioned the supplemental bonus for this spring reported on other blogs? Kind of an important detail.

WHERE THE FUCK IS MY QUINN BONUS NEWS

Jones Day Memos are not coming our for fear of revolt, CHE!

Seriously though, JD to set the market at salary freezes, no bonus, and retroactive salary adjustment for 2008 (e.g. taking money out of associates' bank accounts?)

21, everyone at S&C meets their hours requirement or they are no longer at S&C. I have billed 1400 hours for two straight years still have a job. I haven't gotten any bonus, but I can't see how it gets much better than that.

I'd be shocked if Weil departed from the market. It's always been a follower.

kirkland to the rescue!

23 - Weil always announces in January

2750 hours here, 15. I'd call this stupid, but I am in fact stupid for wasting this much time at work on a mere expectation of reasonable compensation.

22 is credited. I have other options, and while I never wanted to before today, I'll be exploring them now.

The world is probably over. Your bonuses will only start at $17,500 unless you're a stub. Might as well post over 800 comments lamenting this sorry state of affairs.

BIOTCH

NYC Associates lose? Try working for ANY financial institution in Manhattan lately?

Yes, NY will be replaced by Atlanta or Tuscaloosa.

I lost $70k plus in bonus this year, and probably over 10 million prestige dollars. I am ashamed to tell local counsel I work in NY, and often suggest I'm hoping to make it to the real big city some day when I've saved enough money to crack the Mobile, Alabama real estate market.

With our strict gun laws I can't even shoot myself in the face like I want to.

Where do we point the finger here? Bloomberg? Bush? Evan Chesler? Bob Link?

22, I hope you're right, the rest of us need those jobs.

OMG THIS IS THE END OF THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MARKETS ARE FALLING APART AND BONUSES AREN'T AS GOOD AS THEY WERE WHEN MARKETS WERE DOING GREAT. WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!

31 - ATL broke that story:

http://abovethelaw.com/2007/09/sullivan_cromwell_senior_associate_plan.php

But the supplemental bonuses ended up being kind of a joke:

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/04/sharing_salary_data.php

Great, 38, vote with your feet. Move to another lock-step firm where you'll be paid the same salary with the same bonus. But at least you'll be able to tell people that you told S&C to f*** off. Anonymously. On the internet.

34 is the only smart one among you/us. Well played sir, well played.

Oh boo hoo, I'll just have to settle for a bonus that's only half of the median household income for the United States on top of my 200k salary and my supplemental bonus in the spring. Whatever shall I do? Clearly I am the most unappreciated worker who has ever lived.

--S&C associate annoyed at whiny bitches

@38

While I sincerely feel for you (I happen to have dodged the bullet this year), unless you're just finishing up your first full year @ S&C, you should have been exploring your other options a looooonnngggg time ago.

Any 3Ls who have accepted offers with big firms getting gifts out there? I only got a card and im PISSED

Lockstep is bad for everyone except the least motivated and lowest billers. The whole secret bonus that is only revealed at the end of the year is completely ridiculous anyway, but even moreso when it's lockstep. "We will hold a piece of your compensation hostage until the end of the year, but we will not tell you how much, only that it will be between $0 and $many. All you have to do to get it is be anything other than fired when we feel like paying you. Now please work very hard." It's not in the firms' best interest, it's not in the best interest of associates who bill a lot - it only protects and coddles those at the bottom. Yuck.

Kevin????????

Half-skadden, with additional bonuses in spring tied to mkt conditions and firm performance. So, essentially, the "special" bonus to seniors has been expanded to include every one.

Blah.

For defenders of Cravath, S&C, DPW, etc.: What's the rationale for supporting the 'half-Skadden' bonus structure? The money is either going to partners or associates, so how can partners keeping the money possibly be spun as preferable?

Of course the partners have the right to keep as much of the money as they want, but I don't understand how anyone can argue that low bonuses are good for associates?

You people should be ashamed of yourselves. I was at new Thelen and lost my job, and you're squabbling over bonuses. It's disgusting. Just be thankful that you have a job with an already obscenely high salary. I'm going from 160K+ to who knows what. I understand that it's disappointing to get a lower bonus than you're expecting, but please try to have some perspective here.

#47 - amen. for reals.

Any difference for non-NYC offices?

53- Maybe the $ doesn't go to the partners or associates. Maybe the $ isn't there at all.

New Vault Rankings:

#1 Wachtell
#2 Skadden

the rest all tied.

S&C HALF-SKADDEN TOO? Jesus, is it too late to dump my S&C summer associate offer and beg Skadden to accept me?!?

47 you are the problem with the legal industry.

A bonus range of $17-32k is tantamount to a violent anal gang bang, and you're offering to fluff for it.

54: Would you be any different if you still had a job?

While I agree that smaller bonii have little to do with firms not having the cash to shell out this year and more to do with the fact that they can get away with it, I still think all the whining over the bonus cuts is shallow. How do we expect to be treated like more than greedy hired guns (or glorified temps) if we can be bought and sold so easily?

"Same bonus as last year? $17,500 more than peer firms? OH, I LOVE MY FIRM!"

"Smaller bonus? WTF, my firm sucks!"

Money is important, of course. If it is all we are working for, however, we have already lost more than half of a Skadden bonus.

-Not an S&C Associate (but not a happy Skadden one, either...)

it's official. chicago (among others) will have higher bonuses than NY this year! Screw you NY!

@47 I posted this earlier, but it bears repeating:

I am/we are the real devil's advocates. We make legal the nuclear bombs that destroyed the world economy. Then we help our clients get taxpayer money because they destroyed themselves and the world (and thus encourage government support of failure). We, the great capitalists, are socialists when it suits are needs--and we tricked the world into thinking it's necessary.

So, as someone on the inside, I'm totally in agreement with you. We failed and we want to get paid for it ...

Odd, isn't it?

@ 37: Weil announced in early November last year. Check the ATL archives.

I don't know what everyone is complaining about. You have a job that pays you obscene amounts of money in a shitty economy. At least you're getting a bonus. You're doing better than 99% of the world.

S&C associate who billed ~2,700 hours in 2008. That makes 3 hours every day, seven days a week, more than I would've needed to bill to make $20K more at Skadden. Or, to look at it another way, I paid $18/hr for the privilege of billing those 1,100 extra hours at S&C.

Won't be making THAT mistake again. Fool me once...

Why did Cravath do all their competitors a favor anyway? It will take years to undo the damage they did to us but at the same time they unilaterally disarmed and thus help every other firm in NYC. What do they get out of allowing scrubs like Latham to stay competitive anyway?

66 and everyone else, STFU. The people complaining are the high billers, not the people who are desperately clinging to their jobs (like you). Why should we carry you?

Will JDers get comp letters tomorrow?

Fuckers.

shut up about jones day. no one cares.

Kevin is a high biller - Hope his memo reflects that. But it has not come yet and he is sad. Please pray for Kevin.

The S&C Memo:

From: H. Rodgin Cohen, Joseph C. Shenker

Re: 2009 Salary and 2008 Supplemental Compensation

We are writing to inform you that as of January 1, 2008 your annual base salary will increase to $. On December 30, 2008, you will be receiving a direct deposit of $, less tax and withholdings, representing supplemental compensation for 2008. As we did for 2007/2008, we will be paying an additional bonus in the Spring 2009. This bonus will be determined based on the firm's financial performance and activity levels and will be paid to regular associates in good standing next Spring. Also, we expect to expand the scope of our Spring bonus for 2009 to include all classes of associates.

On behalf of all the partners of the Firm, we would like to thank you for your efforts and wish you and your loved ones happy holidays.

Rodge
Joe

Hey 69 - YOU STFU. Merry Christmas.

what the HELL did you think was gonna happen?? investment banking barely exists anymore!!! did you think s&c was gonna be just dandy and not change compensation??? they're too reliant on wall street.

everyone at uva saw this coming -- those who had callbacks in early sept got an offer; anyone who did their callback after about sept 20th got dinged. they were obviously panicking.

53 - The justification for half-Skadden bonuses is to AVOID LAYOFFS.

I think everyone can agree that they'd rather get a lower bonus than a pink slip.

You gotta love how ATL lifts the druge siren logo and doesn't bother concealing it.

http://www.abovethelaw.com/images/entries/animated%20siren%20gif%20animated%20siren%20gif%20animated%20siren%20gif%20drudge%20report.GIF

Kirkland!!

It's funny to see all the "just be thankful you have a job!!!!!!" people come out on all these threads. These are clearly the people who are billing shit hours and hoping no one will notice if they just act thankful enough about their job. The high billers don't have to "just" be thankful for their jobs because they aren't going to lose them, because they don't sit around with their thumbs up their asses all year.

72 -- your mom cares.

DEATH TO LOCKSTEP. I HOPE THE ENTIRE WEIL BFR SECTION MOVES TO K&E.

"I think everyone can agree that they'd rather get a lower bonus than a pink slip."

I think that depends on your degree of risk aversion. I'd rather get a lower bonus than a pink slip, but I'd rather get a higher bonus if the guy down the hall gets the pink slip.

I love the people who say they won't work as many hours next year.

BS, you don't control your hours, the partners or senior associates who assign your work do. And if you try to refuse work, or work more slowly so that you don't accumulate hours, you'll find yourself getting a "performance-based" termination. At which point you'll wish you could get a half-skadden bonus or a Latham pay freeze.

Most people on this blog are "all hat, no cattle" losers.

So true, 80, but you have to give the "just be thankful you have a job!!!!!" people *some* credit - it's tough to type so much without the use of one's thumbs....

63, those of us in Chicago aren't counting on anything at the moment. The Latham news has a lot of us concerned. While K&E will do whatever they do (i.e. beat most of the NY market), Latham has a sizeable Chicago office that competes for the same people as Sidley and Mayer, and so if Sidley and Mayer follow Latham, the entire Chicago market is going to be terrible this year.

I don't think Sidley and Mayer will follow Latham though. I'd be shocked if they departed from the normal bonus structure (i.e. exclusively based on hours, same levels have been used for several years now), and I'd actually be surprised if they don't give raises too, since full raises at a number of Chicago firms are also tied to making your hours.

Any word on Kirkland??

78 - Old news. People have always referred to this as the "Drudge Siren" in the comments.

ANYONE WHO LIVES IN NYC IS A MORON, unless you're at wachtell.

at least 2 firms in DC are paying more than most ny firms. what's the point of ny? broadway?

Can we please settle this annoying bickering already?

New York associates. They are whiny and greedy. They work at the will of the partners, and aren't entitled to anything. It's all true. But they also invested a whole lot of time and money to go to law school and then they worked ridiculous hours mostly so that partners could make millions of dollars per year. Maybe they are stupid for having joined these firms at all, but it's hard to blame them for wanting a "fair" share.

Haters. Yes the economy sucks and people are getting laid off from banks that went under. Lawyers should be happy that they are getting bonuses and not pink slips, it's true. But those bankers knew going in that they were taking risky jobs, and they never paid 200K to go to law school. Many of them also had higher upside potential in a shorter timeframe than lawyers.

The rest of you. Lawyers make more money than average people. We get it. But everyone always wants to be paid more money; New York is very expensive; and most people don't work 2500 hours a year. Using average national yearly wages as a basis from which to cast judgment on this small subset of workers makes very, very little sense.

Now can everyone just shut the fuck up?

FIX YOUR TYPOS, YOU PIG

Why do you all play this game?? Law firms will pay you what they can pay you. Big NY firms do not need to retain senior or mid level associates any more so they really did not need to pay ANY bonus this year. After all, the traditional exit opportunities for mids and seniors--banks, hedge funds, PE firms--are blocked. So what the big firms are doing makes perfect sense. They do not need to retain talent--in fact they are trying to shed it.

So my question is, why play the game? Why not go to a city with a better quality of life, cheaper rents, etc. Guess what, you can see your family, walk in the park, etc.

From reading this blog, it does seem that NY biglaw associates are the most unhappy people on earth. Seriously, the men and women who clean my office at night seem happier than people on this blog. They smile; they hum songs; they enjoy their life.

Thank you, 90.

http://lonestartimes.com/2005/02/23/drudge-siren-stolen/

Kevin, KEVIN, or KEVin??

http://www.weil.com/kevinmeade/

http://www.jonesday.com/kcbrantley/

http://www.quinnemanuel.com/attorneys/janus-kevin-a.aspx

Any news KEVINS?

Very true, 92. That's why I moved to Houston.

90: most bankers I know went to B school, which, granted, is 2 rather than 3 years, but they emerged with hefty debt. And the bankers I knew lived large in B school. So let's call the debt even. Why should the rules be different for firms than banks. Wy should people demand more job security in firms than banks. Just because of the way it "has always been done."

It's a new world now mate.

90: most bankers I know went to B school, which, granted, is 2 rather than 3 years, but they emerged with hefty debt. And the bankers I knew lived large in B school. So let's call the debt even. Why should the rules be different for firms than banks. Wy should people demand more job security in firms than banks. Just because of the way it "has always been done."

It's a new world now mate.

90,

word.

90 for President of ATL. Make the position now, and put 90 in it.

Thanks.

No news.

The constant rejoinder of "you should be thankful you are doing better than 99% of the world" is sheer nonsense. I believe in capitalism. I believe that you should receive a pro rata share of the wealth you create depending on your contribution.

Attorneys in big law during the past year produced incredible wealth for their partnerships. They should be compensated accordingly. This goes for the financial industry as well. Ibanking produced year-end losses and their bonuses disappeared with the profits. Meanwhile traders like Paul Tudor Jones made billions shorting the housing market. He and those like him deserve their profits. You too deserve your share.

Further, it is absurd that 25 or so firms can all afford to pay the same bonus structure. Every firm should have different bonus structure depending on their fortunes in the past year. If the banks adopted these sort of, shall we say, socialistic compensation schemes, Wall Street would be burned to the ground. It would be viewed as outright theft. You should be similarly outraged.

this time last year kirkland had announced. but things were different last year. not sure what's going on this year.

89-

um, maybe because new york is at the center of the universe and DC blows ass (that is, unless you think a happy hour from 5-6 is a wild time). People come to America. People come to NYC. People don't come to DC. Go blow yourself in Adam's Morgan, and be sure to watch out for bullets wizzing by your head as you walk from one bar to the next, identical bar.

EVERYONE IN NY=CWT

Everyone who shitted on CWT is now in the same tank...so how does it feel? At least CWT got all their layoffs done and have a lean cost structure moving forward.....

Good luck sweating out 2009....

"S&C: Either the firm is in piss poor shape & Rodge is a liar or we are lemmings and do what Cravath does. Bonus = total BS. People are PISSED."

Why would the firm be in "piss poor shape"? It's probably doing fine... and doing BETTER for the partners by paying market level bonuses.

I think the collapse of Heller and Thelen really frightened a lot of partners in Biglaw. Skadden really stands to benefit in a few years from their courage, if they survive.

It's total bullshit. They've been telling us all year, "The firm's doing better than ever." "We're busier than ever." "Thanks for working so hard on all these market-defining transactions." Etc. And then this. Were they lying to us then or are they lying to us now?

I think it's important to remember that last year S&C announced it's senior associate supplemental mid-year bonus before the "special" bonus announcment by Cravath. Once the special was in play, S&C basically said that it would allocate most of the funds it had planned to pay for the mid-year bonus to the special year-end bonus.

Thus, while the mid-year bonus was like $2500 last year, S&C's plan was for it to be much higher and instead it just got paid out with the year-end bonus. That leads me to think that the mid-year bonus could be more like $10k - 20k.

49: Skadden sent me a gift basket. and a HELL YES. Suck it CSM. AND S&C.

104 = one angry dwarf

104 -- go home to your 500 sqft crappy apt in brooklyn, after doing doc review for 13 hrs/day while making less every year and paying like 45% in taxes. nice life. and enjoy the great weather, nice people, and wonderful smells of nyc.

dc is actually the center of the universe now, baby! nyc is dead -- BoA and wells fargo aren't even hq'd in nyc!

"The spring distribution, or supplemental bonus, will be based on the firm's overall financial performance."

I believe the memo with that Spring distribution will read something like this:

Dear Associate:

We are pleased to announce the supplemental bonuses for this year! Due to our miserable performance, your supplemental bonus is as follows -- you owe us $______.

Please remit payment to HR by the end of next week. Or we can deduct this amount from your next (possibly last) paycheck.

Thank you for all of your hard work that makes our firm so special!

- Management

104---Ah, Sorry mate, but NY, much as you Manhattan based tossers like to think NY is the "center of the world"--and why do you always have to assert that NY is center of the world? are you insecure--the true center of the world and true crossroads of the world is London. Sorry to have to inform you of that. Have you ever been there? It's in England you see. Not only are its people more chill, the weather is better, the theater better, the city looks classier and you can drink on the street.

Also, I'll take Essex girls over N.J. chicks any day.

Alright 114, you had a point right up until the weather comment. And then the one about the girls. That one was even dumber.

Apparently, Rodge had a shitload of money with Madoff and is trying to recoup.

Evan Chesler bought a bunch of Dreir's bonds.

114 - the girls thing is a tough sell. A REAL tough sell. bad teeth.

107, you're such a naive little law student.

Do you really think that any major law firm -- which by definition has over $500mm in annual revenues and generates annual profits per partner of $1.5-3mm -- is going to be meaningfully affected by the fact law students fall in love with one firm or another? No law firm is going to rise or fall based on what law students think of them. Pick a major law firm that you think is TTT -- now look at their PPP. A couple of years ago everyone said Shearman was dead. Now, I wouldn't want to work there, but look at their numbers -- do you really think the partners care what you or I think of them.

There will always be enough of you willing to take the firms' money. There will always be more law students than jobs. Besides, when it comes to the actual practice of law, there is a low correlation btwn competence and where you went to school. You guys are widgets.

115: don't know if you live in London but was not making a comment about all women in London. Was saying that the people in NY normally referred to as "B&T (bridge and tunnel)" which means New Jersey and Staten Island are less attractive than their English counterparts. Essex girls (Essex is a home county just to the east of London) are actually quite comely.

Also, about the weather, it is nearly never too hot or too cold in London. You almost never need a heavy jacket there. So, yes, generally the weather is better. I stand by that point.

And I forgot this--Londoners, both male and female, are way more stylish than New Yorkers. In NY, no individual style. It still feels like people there dress like the ads tell them to do so rather than any sense of individuality.

But perhaps I am biased as I live in London. Compare Hoxton, Shoreditch or Kings Road to the East Village. The former is way hipper. Sorry.

114:

The weather is better in London than NYC? WTF are you smoking? I'll grant you the Essex girls over NYC girls. They are E-A-S-Y. Gotta love em.

Kirkland Associates were asked to give thier travel schedules and contact info for next week. Word should be coming down soon.

The head of the Recruiting Committee is a ATL fan (and a Saved By the Bell fan) and we have faith in him to come through for us.

Sorry guy, but Chicago has the BEST weather and HOTTEST women in the world.

Greedy partners. That's all it is.

S&C had a great year. Associates get a big F.U. thank you note.

122 = Epic Fail

I cannot believe you guys are complaining about bonuses. At least you have bonuses coming. I hope you are generous to your assistant this year. Because some of the staff at these firms are not getting a bonus.

60 nailed it. Get off this site, apologists.

114- You suck at life--- and NJ Girls? I can't decide if I wish you the clap or the hiv from those essex girls

61, I can say with confidence that I would feel the same way as everyone else if I hadn't been laid off. But being laid off gives you a certain perspective and a hard dose of reality. It just sucks that Thelen dissolved. I'm a good attorney with nowhere to practice. Nobody's hiring, and the bonuses just seem outrageous now. If I was still working, of course I'd want my full bonus. But from where I'm standing It's just unfortunate that so many people can't appreciate what they have.

@64

"our" not "are" you dumb fuck -- as in you "are" retarded, now quit wasting "our" fucking time. Your point did not need repeating because it was banal.

cravath sets the market. full stop. all of you commenting that timing has nothing to do with it, all cash received is distributed, with no effect on next year, have never run a business, or, hopefully, written a purchase price adjustment. the collection of receivables is fluid--the rate cash is received floats, with collection efforts. so of course people are protecting next year. that's why they call it a liquidity crisis, mates. 114 is right about the teeth. rough.

118 - then how do you explain the insane rush to 160k that happened over the last few years? I think you underestimate the impact of how associates and upcoming law students from top schools view biglaw firms. That, or you're right and thousands of biglaw partners are completely wrong.

-107

Sidley went half-Skadden today.

Sidley went half-Skadden today.

Not sure where 121 is coming from, but I'm a K&E NY associate and I've been given no such instructions.

and thus, only Weil is left . . .

I am amused by the Essex comments. You want an experience? Take the last train of the night home on a Friday or Saturday from Fenchurch St. in London east to Essex. You have never experienced anything like it I assure you. If you can make past Basildon with your wits still about you or your limbs still attached, I applaud you. The shrieking, the vomiting, the free love! Americans have this image of the English as proper and prim. The night train to Essex will cure you of that notion straightaway.

131 -- that was to keep people from going to dot coms, investment banks and p/e shops, not one firm versus another.

ditto 134. why would associates need to give travel and contact info? isn't comp info emailed?

121 - which office are you in??

BITCH SPREAD THE BUTT CHEEKS SO I CAN SMELL THE JUICY INSIDES!

128: Hang in there. Things will get better, no matter how it seems now.

tough week to be a lawyer...

The partners just ran train on the entire associate ranks b theyre smart and realize this will result in zero attrition. sound business decision.

@114 and any other commenter who uses the word "mates"...

Get the fuck off this board. You don't know shit about shit, and you have the IQ of a wet ball sack.

Obviously, you like dudes if you think women in London are better than any in American city other than Detroit.

Also, who gives a rat's ass about style? STFU and go back across the pond to the rain and fog. And by the way, I love London and Europe, but you douches are delusional.

I'm 134.

I've been informed by a co-worker that someone in Chicago indicated that the numbers are coming on Monday.

Monday!? I won't be here Monday. Damnit...

Fuck New York, you fuckers are dumb enough to even still pay for over priced real estate that will plummet in the next 1.5 years, dumb asses, you are surely dumb enough to accept those BULLSHIT bonuses.

At Kirkland your bonus number is given to you by your sheppard through the Associate review process. My earlier statement applies to Kirkland DC. My understanding is that there is only one grid so if we get our number next week I would suspect all offices are likely to.

The comments by these "high billers" who are screaming for an end to the lockstep system and for their low billing colleagues to be fired are really getting annoying.

Stop being so freaking arrogant. In a firm like S&C, Cravath, DPW or any other lockstep firm (generally only the top ones), are you really telling us that you are that magical superstar billing 2500 while all the other associates are billing 1300 because they are stupid and incompetent?! Come on - get off it. Junior and mid level associates have little control over how much work they can get - in this economy, a lot depends on the department.

Yes, I am in restructuring and I billed 2200 this year, while my colleagues down the hall (doing capital markets) billed 1400. But hey, did I complain when I billed 1900-2000 for the last few years while my capital markets colleagues billed 2500+ hours? No, we all celebrated the lockstep system precisely because it avoids that sort of hostility within the firm.

So deal with it! The lockstep system DOES WORK. It is no coincidence that only the very top firms are lockstep. Stop trying to pretend that you are billing 2500 hours just because you are a thousand times more competent than your colleagues at a v5 firm, and therefore your colleagues should be fired so as to allow you to earn a higher bonus.

So the top firms in terms of comp are:

(1) WLRK
(2) Boise
(3) Skadden
(3) OMM
(4) TTT

Rumor has it that Skadden went all-out-full Skadden today...

146 - hence the need for travel schedules...

102--FYI, Wall Street DID "burn to the ground." Or wasn't that covered on Fox News?

a little late eh 140?

I really hope that the NY KE grid is higher...

Boise? They pay that well in Idaho?

Those whiners should stop complaining, at least they got a bonus ... Big Firm Associates have it so easy anyway...

149 - the top firms keep lockstep because it's easy, not because it's the best system. There is zero incentive to put in extra effort under a lockstep system. There is an extent to which you can't control how much you work, but you aren't helpless. You can choose to seek more work. You can choose to do the bare minimum. Lockstep creates a positive incentive to do less, not more. Lawyers are notoriously bad managers, and always hate dealing with businessy things like negotiating individual compensation...but it would really behoove firms to stop being lazy and make everything merit-based. Base pay, bonuses, the works. There is no need for everyone to make the same salary within each class year.

155

What was the average billables for attorneys in the NY office for the year through September (the bonus year)?

159 - probably higher than other offices....

The last time I showed my full Skadden in public, I got arrested.

S&C used to be a leader in comp. Why did it have to wait until the middle of December after all peer firms had announced just to match Half-Skadden? I don't get it. Other than pissing off associates right before Christmas, what was the point of the delay?

ONEHUNDREDSIXTYTHIRDASAURUS REX!

Haha, "what law students think" and "recruiting".

How quaint.

With the increasingly robust lateral partner market, and the portability of business instead of the establishment of institutional clients, the traditional benefits of elite hiring are diminishing. Placement of loyal alumni in-house and cultivation of partners through holding a tournament among as large and elite pool as possible no longer matters when you can screw associates and hire that guy down the street who already has a decent book.

PPP is now >>> than law school recruiting, and laterals are why.

LOL at 155.

You had better just hope that the NY grid is not LOWER than the other offices this year.

I am sick and tired of you so-called attorneys complaining. This post is aweful and you should all be ashamed of yourselves complaining about your high powered jobs making more than the average person. Think about those attorneys and the staff that got laid off and that are not receiving bonuses. Some of these comments should be blocked.

144: are you saying that English blokes can't post on this board? because that's how we call what you call "dude". So stop with your pan-Americanism, you wanker! Wanker. That means "one who wanks."

153 -

Do you see LEH analysts and GS ibankers demanding their 2007 comp? Nope - they know better because they implicitly understand compensation depends on the amount of revenue they generate for their employer, not how well an index of 50 other banks did or traders or analysts in a different, revenue-generating portion of the firm. Wall Street would literally burn if you said to a Goldman prop trader short on the market, up a couple hundred million dollars on his book, "hey, thanks for all the work. In order to be fair though your bonus is going to be the same we give the VPs over at the ibank. But be thankful - you still make more than 99& of all Americans!"

This is not Fox News, pal. This is how the economy works. It's about risk and reward. You lawyers coughed up the dough the past few years while us Wall Streeters killed it. We are now getting ruined (and it's fair!) but you shouldn't - you made just as much money this year as last.

- 102 (doesn't watch Fox)

Elie/Lat, please do a researched post on the Brooklyn Law grad / Paul Hastings associate who has been implicated in an insider trading scandal. See the WSJ Law Blog. Thanks.

The Law as a profit-making enterprise is completely and totally fucked until attorneys collectively realize that billing 1400 and 2300 hours respectively should not result in identical bonuses. Attorney B brought in roughly $350,000 more in revenue. His bonus should likewise be 30-40% higher.

And you cry, "WAH, but I don't control my hours... its not fair and I want to work in a team environment!" It's called McDonalds. And they are hiring.

Yeah.... do all you people really stay in NYC just for the money? I stay here because I like it. If you're all about the money and the city itself gives you no joy, you really should try another market, you'll have more purchasing power and (depending on the market) less hectic hours.

"Do you see LEH analysts and GS ibankers demanding their 2007 comp"

Do you realize one of those companies just went bankrupt and the other just posted its first lost ever. Do you know that these law firms are going to be about as profitable in 2008 as they were in 2007? Not to mention that bankers make about 10-100x what the average lawyer makes, even in 2008?

This is all marketing and self interest and nothing to do with real profits re:2008.... 2009 could very well be another story but we are working like mad here and these guys are making tons of money.

168/102 -- Thanks for the economics lesson, 'pal,' though I also went to undergrad. But what makes you so sure I'm a lawyer, and not a Wall Streeter, like you?

-153

I will be so, so happy when the proletariat finally realizes the nonsense that goes on here, and the obscene amounts of money people make for pushing pieces of paper up against other pieces of paper, and takes control. Have any of you ever actually DONE anything with your lives? This is insanity.

144 here and people who use the word "wank" or "blokes" can GTFO too.

I don't think anyone misunderstood how you used the term "mates", you dumb fuck. It wasn't so nuanced it escaped me; it's that -- hmm how to put this?? You are fucking moron, and I just don't like it or your moronic posting about the great English weather and women.

At least they're not doing like Latham. Now we know who doesn't deserve their place in the v10. I mean come on, they made more then 2 Billions last year and they can't afford raises and maybe will conduct layoff?!!! Come on !!!!

176 -- how many billions did Morgan Stanley or Citi make in 2007? Firms have to be a bit more forward looking than, uh, the year that's already over.

174 -- YEAH, as if the GM "proletariat" sitting in the freakin job bank collecting 95% of the pay while doing nothing while the govt bails out their crappy company is any better!

The class warfare thing is so old. If anything, WHITE COLLAR workers should unite!

Lockstep bonuses are retarded, period.

144: I have not a clue as to what "GTFO" means. Is that some new slang. And your ignorance about some fairly common British vernacular is telling. What is tells me, mate, is that people of your ilk are ill equipped to live anywhere but NY, that the NY brand transfers nearly no where and that you are a right royal tosser. Have you ever wondered why the Magic Circle has far flung offices throughout the world and the top U.S. firms have fairly few foreign offices. The answer is simple: English people can actually live abroad and adapt to foreign cultures while Americans in foreign countries are generally whiny wretches. Even in London, they whine and complain. It gets rather bothersome.

JD letters should be going out tomorrow.

If not, I'll officially be nervous.

178 -- I'd hardly call GM workers -- well, assuming their pensions ever get paid out -- the "proletariat." But go complain about your $20K bonus to the woman working two or three jobs in Brooklyn mopping floors or washing clothes for $200 a week so her kids don't starve. You people have no idea wha the real world is.

181 -- Have you heard this from anyone, or is it wishful thinking?

At any rate, I agree, if I don't get something tomorrow, I'm going to start wondering WTF is going on.

FIRST!!!!!!

180 - Get The F*** Out.

185 - you are a tosser

186 - A salad tosser? I prefer syrup.

180: Quite right. Americans in London generally treat it like hardship duty instead of the chance to live in a brilliant city. If I hear one more comment from colleagues about the tube or the weather or the cost of dry cleaning, I may have to jump off Blackfriars Bridge. And why do they all live in South Ken or Chelsea while the English associates live in far reaches of the Central or Northern Line?? How would Americans feel if all U.S. lawyers lived in Queens while all their English counterparts lived in prime Manhattan areas.

188 - you too are a tosser

161: The last time I showed my full Skadden in public, they built a monument in its honor...don't know how they knew I named by wiener Washington!

180- you should know a lot about getting rather bothersome.

I officially dub this entire comments section: "2008's dumbest comments on a thread."

Congrats to you all for a job well done. And a special thanks to our commenter-brethren overseas in England. Without you, this dream would never have been realized.

Bravo.

177-- how come other firms (who made much less by the way) are not doing the latham pay freeze? Is Latham in such a mess now????

I think it's about time NY associates exercised their rights under the NLRA and unionized!

I swear I will hunt down and slowly and painfully murder the next assjack to talk to me about what some mop dragging immigrant makes, as if that has any relevance to the NY top tier legal market. I will bend that man over and use him like a woman until he cries himself into his happy place. I will forcibly place my hand inside of his body and extend it until I can use his own jawbone like a sock puppet.

One hundred ninety two: Thank you for the recognition. I can't Adam and Eve, however, that you think these comments have been dumb. On the contrary, I think we have tried to illustrate some differences in cultures and practices. Now, I don't mean to cause Barney Rubble on this forum. In fact, meet me down the Battle Cruizer and we can all have a proper pint and discuss.

Happy Christmas every one.

S&C follows CSM.

(except in that last sentence?)

196 - you are a complete and utter douche. Nice job Googling there, kiddo.

195: People who make fun of other people so easily like you do should be ashamed. What gives you the right?? I sense you are getting no action because hostility like that does not come from vapors.

Now this I can assure you: the immigrants to whom you refer are much better people than you, contribute more to our society, and are a vital part of the United States. You, no matter where you are or how much you make, are a leech--you denigrate others, do nothing of value and, I will bet dollars to doughnuts, have not fulfilling personal life. Wanking it to porn dude??

196: is douche the only word you can use? it's vulgar.

Kevin - No need to keep looking for news. No memo today. Maybe tomorrow.

Uh-oh, 199 has pulled out the full "poor people are better people" sword. I'm out - it's now completely stupid in here.

Whoa is me.

199 - are you a chink tosser?

195 - Nobody said the immigrant "mop dragger" should be paid more than you. Although, as was said above, she's probably a far, far better person than you are based on that comment. But you have absolutely no right to complain - in this economy! - about the inadequacy of your bonus when there are millions of people without jobs, while that number is growing exponentially (well, or, it was, until the latest figures came out), and while the people that do have jobs often have far, far crappier jobs than they used to and must work multiple crappy jobs just to, yes, feed their families. In a word: Take a look around the real world and reconsider whining about your bonus.

200 = fillthy jizz mouth.

196--no google actually. just knowledge. i know you are probably very serious and literal minded but sometimes if you hang out in other cultures and just listen, you pick things up. Now, you probably haven't because, wherever you are, you appear the type that works till midnight every night and whose idea of cultural exposure is a trip to benny burritos and an occasional foray to queens? Have you ever been outside the U.S., I ask?

180 - Brits live everywhere because they once ran a world empire. How many countries did Britain decolonize during the 19th Century? Much of Africa, India, Hong Kong, and the list just keeps going. I fail to see how this qualifies you as adaptive to other cultures. And as far as London goes, I don't see the allure. I've been several times and much prefer other European cities. For example, Madrid kicks ass. And if you want hot women, fuck Britain, go to Spain.

Hey all--reading this thread that my lawyer friend told me about. Funny. I am a recent business school graduate. I prepare decks every day for clients. It's funny because the level of xenophobia and pure hatred on this thread is incredible! If you went to B-School instread of law school, you would appreciate other cultures.

Why the *&^^ is NY so dirty? I'll tell you why - most immigrants aren't even willing to take decent mop-dragging jobs. They'd prefer to lounge around, occasionally rousing themselves from soap operas and sitcoms to supplement their social assistance with petty crime. All these illegal immigrants should be forced to work for their the good, few mop-dragging immigrants for starvation wages and make the existing mop-draggers successful, business owning Americans.

Why the *&^^ is NY so dirty? I'll tell you why - most immigrants aren't even willing to take decent mop-dragging jobs. They'd prefer to lounge around, occasionally rousing themselves from soap operas and sitcoms to supplement their social assistance with petty crime. All these illegal immigrants should be forced to work for starvation wages for the few mop-dragging immigrants that are already out theee and make those existing mop-draggers successful, business owning Americans.

You all need to grow up and stop whining- if you want to call the shots and make the big bucks, then stick around, work hard, and try to make partner. or, if you are so stellar, go out and start your own firm and see how much of a bonus you can give yourself next year. Must be in the six figures, right? Because you're worth so much?

Everyone seems to be forgetting that associates need partners as much or more than partners need associates. And that if partners have to take a huge paycut because the ENTIRE ECONOMY is tanking, and then partners leave the firm and take their business with them, then the whiny entitled baby associates will have no work and no jobs. But all ATL commenters focus on is how much THEY do for the firm and how much THEY deserve, even though they couldn't bring in $2 of business if they wanted to.

No one "owes" you anything for a bonus, especially if you worked 1300 hours this year. You should be paid what the market will bear, especially in a year when most firms are facing a downturn in 08 and a bigger downturn in 09. Get over yourselves and realize the market is what the market is, and that for those of you with these entitled attitudes I'm sure the partners at your firms would be more than happy to see you go in "protest"- go on! show em!

this thread has made me dumber.

B-schoolers are so enlightened. They appreciate other cultures blah blah blah. B-schoolers choke on cock.

Wow, can't we all just get along?

No cities or people are better than another, just different. And for that matter, we are all more similar than different.

Except for you. You suck.

Why the *&^^ is NY so dirty? I'll tell you why - most of the (self-proclaimed) entitled people, more and more of whom flock to this site, can't be bothered to clean up after themselves, whether at work, home or play. Sh*tty reflection on you and your parents (or whoever raised you). Yeah, 209/210, I'm talking about your sorry a$$... and 203 and...*sigh* too many.

214 -- that made me laugh.

See, these comments are worthwhile. Every so often, a gem among...so much crap.

I don't see why someone's pay should be based on how many other people don't have jobs. Your pay should be based on the revenue you generate. When a law firm generates 1 dollar in revenue the firm gets to keep the dollar. Part of that dollar goes to cover overhead, etc. But part of it also goes to salary. So, if we assumed that 50% of a law firm's revenue is paid out as salary, why should it matter if the economy is in the toilet?

If you don't pay out the 50% as salary and instead pay 40% to salaries, where does the remaining 10% go? I can guarantee you it's not to those jobless people in the economy. Hopefully it goes into a rainy day fund but even there I'm doubtful that the 10% is ending up there.

I just can't wait for the endless months of working with angry, bitter people who are all trying to do as little as possible. Damn it.

217 also believes in rainbows and unicorns.

204 went full retard. Never go full retard 204.

188: I agree with you and 180 on most things. However, silly to wonder why Americans tend to live in one area while the English associates "live in far reaches of the Central or Northern Line". Did you ever consider that living quarters are lined up the firms or choices made based on where other in same firm live? What is a young American, new to London, going to do by himself near the end of Northern Line?

Also, how would Americans feel if all U.S. lawyers lived in Queens while all their English counterparts lived in prime Manhattan areas? Probably won't care because most 1) don't live in outer boroughs unless can't afford Manhattan, or 2) have some connection to outer boroughs so are utterly comfortable roaming its streets. Think about it - a stranger to a new city/country doesn't roam too far at first.

- Former BigLaw sent abroad 3x with no say in location of accomodations

211,

That kind of rational post has no place on ATL.

As you'll shortly find out, I'm sure.

207: NO. Go to POLAND for hot chicks!!!

-217, why in the world should your "pay be based on the revenue you generate"? That doesn't make any sense. Your pay is based on the market for people with like skills. It's a basic demand curve. High demand and low supply (see 2007), yields a high price; high supply and low demand (see now) equals a lower price.

211 - Yes we need them and they need us. The issue is with the lockstep. When one group is billing 2400 hours and another 1600 hours, then the group working more should be rewarded. Certain practice groups are counter-cyclical and those associates should get a bonus reflective of the legal market they are in, employment law, bankruptcy, etc. The whole free-rider bullshit is what causes the discontent. The lockstep distorts the overall legal market. Firms should terminate non-productive labor and reward productive labor rather than prop up free-riders on the backs of those who are productive. This efficiency will maximize profits and maximize compensation. The current system is the cancer and productive labor should feel like they are owed something because they are. It's just that what they are owed is being paid to non-productive labor that should be terminated or reassigned to productive uses. When the bonuses dwindle, it increases the marginal incentive to become the free-rider and that is neither good for the firm nor the associate. Compensation should always be used to maximize performance, not minimize it.

[ ]

Inside of the brackets above is the measure of how much I care about the December jobless claims figures. It is also the measure of how much those jobless claims figures should be discussed in the context of how much of my firm's collections should be allocated to associate compensation.

Go work in a fucking soup kitchen if you have guilt issues.

219, I don't understand your point. Are you suggesting that (1) the money will going into a rainy day fund? (2) the money will be paid out to jobless people everywhere?, (3) law firm do not pay attorneys based on the revenues the generate?, (4) something else?

Please elaborate.
-217

211: You're an imbecile. No one-- and I mean NO ONE-- at S&C bills 1300 hours or anywhere near that. I personally billed 2400, and I know several people who were significantly higher. Our FIG (fin inst group) associates had ridiculous hours this years. We were on pretty much every important deal coming out of the credit crisis. For the firm to screw us now after assuring us everything was alright is not acceptable. Many, many good people will be leaving as soon as the economy provides them with options. This isn't some garbage dump firm; this is S&C. And the credit crisis was a great time for us. Those of us who sacrificed a lot of personal and family time, not to mention our sanity and health, are NOT happy being paid less in bonus than a Skadden first year. We won't be staying here long.

It's like all you whiny bitchy associates, if you make partner, when given the opportunity to share in the profits of your business, are going to stand up in a partners' meeting and say "No, even though we toiled for years as an associate to get in this room, let's all take much less and give money to the associates." RIGHT.

223 - I'm down with Poland's hot chicks! And Spain's! Fuck it, I'm down with hot chicks!

Associates: If you don't like what you're getting, then take collective action and organize a union.

- Socialist

I heard today that K&E associates will get calls on Monday. Christmas party is tomorrow.

Not a good sign.

K&E associate who is expecting a not-Skadden

228, what's your take on the civility level at the next Town Hall Meeting?

199 I am guessing the Constitution of the United States of America gives him the right.

Why do you have America?

To the commenter who praised English peoples' ability to live in places other than the UK: the English (and Irish) are the most obnoxious international travelers the world has ever seen. If you think the meatheads in the West 20s on a Saturday night are obnoxious and brain-dead, wait until you meet a pack of English or Irish 20-somethings on holiday anywhere in the world. Good grief, mate.

Are all of the S&C associates mad, or only some? Were these private, individualized letters really a cover for breaking lockstep?

Dude, I can't possibly read all these comments. Slow down people.

How am I supposed to find the comment about the "juicy insides" through all of this fluff?

S&C = TTT.

Glad I turned their offer down.

Ctrl + F, 237. Cheers, mate.

Oh wait - there it is @140

-237

Hey, is anyone else fucking depressed this week?

208 -- kellogg grad here. bschool is a JOKE. graduated from kellogg, worked at bcg for 2 years, then went to law school, which is 1000x more intellectual, difficult, and interesting than the BS teamwork crap they teach you at bschool.

what they don't tell you about bschool is that those who succeed afterwards do so DESPITE going to bschool, not BECAUSE of it. they were already on their way to a top PE or VC shop anyway and took 2 years off. then idiot suckers think that the doors will open for them too if they only went to bschool. what a scam!

anyone watch that retarded special on cnbc about HBS??? what a CROCK! they show the students playing with leggos like a bunch of morons.

i'm sooo glad wall street is dead. it was a huge bubble just waiting to burst, and bschools with burst with it. about time.

and if you think biglaw is bad, try consulting. consultants will never admit it, but their life is hell on earth. you're an excel monkey, have zero job security, work with a bunch of posers who can barely speak english but think they're cool b/c can they do math in their heads like rainman and draw pretty ppt decks, and 99% of consultants' only exit oppty is to work at some crappy company in some middle mgmt position until their 40-s when they're laid off or outsourced.

I once partied with a group of British dudes in Ibiza for two days straight. Tons of vitamin E. We were up for over 50+ hours. Beat the hell out of pulling two all-nighters for some deal. The British rock. They can party the shit out of Americans.

"I know! If we customize the memos they can't be posted on the internets!"

FAIL

Once, I met this girl from Israel. She could totally party. End of story.

206 - using the term "Barney Rubble" doesn't make you sound cultured, wanker.

There's no such thing as "the center of the universe" anymore. Brits and New Yorkers can continue their petty squabbles about whether NY or London is superior all day long. The rest of us will head off to Hong Kong, Dubai, Tokyo, Shanghai, Beijing, Singapore, etc. etc. It's a global economy now.

211 - thank you for being the smart poster of the day. How many BigLaw associates out there have had any single client say "you lose my business unless Joe Third Year works on the deal"? (Yes, grammar nazis, the question mark goes outside the quotes because the quote is not a question.) Occasionally, it can happen with a particularly competent 8th or 9th year, but how many of you are that guy? And "that guy" is going to be a partner in a couple years anyway, so he's beyond caring about your whining and views you to be just as expendable as the partners do. I've personally heard of more than one client say "if you put that Third Year Harvard Fuck on this deal, we're pulling it." No offense to the particular Third Year Harvard Fuck in question, of course.

243 = EPIC brain damage FAIL

212 - if only that was possible....

All above who think that women from Spain (!) are hot - you are morons, the Spanish are rightly considered an unattractive lot....

All Brits above - blow me...

243 - Sounds like going to college. I've partied my share in London and they can't party the shit out of Americans. I'm not even sure how you would measure that, but it was about the same as partying anywhere outside of Salt Lake City, UT. And if you haven't done that then I don't trust your judgment on the issue.

235 - actually, israelis are the most obnoxious travelers in the world. it's not even close.

Yeah, I have just one thing to say to all of you asshats who whine about low billers and "free-riders" stealing your bonuses:

Why don't you go (a) become an owner in a business enterprise where you get to reap all of the benefits of your brilliance and hard work without having to worry about waiting for a handout from the boss or (b) get a job in an industry where you are rewarded purely for volume or performance like, say, any commission based sales job.

If you are so industrious and so talented and such a virtuous capitalist, why are you working in the fucking rat cage that is a large law firm, where you are one of a countless army of drones shuffling paper for people who always richer, usually happier, and (presumably) more brilliant than you?

Huh?

246: You've heard clients threaten to pull deals from biglaw firms if the firm staffs a certain third year associate on it? Really? And this makes sense in terms of your statement that the junior associates don't matter and aren't noticed by clients? What an idiot you must be.

Here's how it works from someone who actually works at a top firm: clients don't care, and don't know, who the juniors are on a deal. They also don't get to tell the firm who works on a deal.

AND HERE'S THE BEST PART, RETARD: THE CLIENTS WOULD ACTUALLY WANT JUNIORS ON THE DEAL BECAUSE IT'S COST EFFECTIVE. DO YOU THINK THEY WANT RODGE COHEN DOING DUE DILIGENCE AT 2000 / HR????

You are the dumbest human being to ever live. Good luck at Jones Day.

That's because you're a frat guy meat-head type, 249, who thinks taking shots of Jager is the way to party like a rock-star.

252 -- not true. on many deals the clients interact quite a bit with the juniors and mid-levels. If they run across a particularly incompetent or annoying associate, they absolutely do ask for him to be reassigned. I've never heard anybody explicitly say "I'll pull the deal" but I don't think that was meant literally. When a client says, "if you don't mind I'd rather not have Harry on my deal" the partners will quickly reassign Harry. No question.

254: Maybe your firm has juniors who are so dumb or annoying that clients ask them not to be on deals, but I've never experienced this at my firm. I assume it doesn't happen at good firms. Do you work at, by chance, Mayer Brown, or Cravath? These toilet firms might face the problem you mention.

125 Broad Street is possibly the worst work environment since that brothel run by Fredo in Godfather II

Limeys = EPIC FAIL

253 - I'm 249, not in a frat, never was, not a meat-head, don't particularly like Jager, and I don't think I mentioned how I like to party or what a rock-star parties like. Other than that you are right on. Keep trying.

Someone please explain to me why, in the first instance, anyone would want to work at an NYC firm and bill 2500+ hours.

252, clients do care which associates are on a deal. A client that thinks all associates are interchangeable will quickly get only the worst associates staffed on its deals, which is not good for business. However, clients don't care who do menial tasks like due diligence. Try to make yourself more important on a deal and you'll notice the difference. This will also help you when you exit the firm.

It will also help in your future career if you would stop calling people 'idiots' and 'retards' when you merely disagree with them. Though I imagine your defensiveness is probably due to deeper underlying issues that we won't get into.

That is all.

259 - you are a mop dragging TTT immigrant that cannot understand the value of prestige

226 = COMMENT OF THE YEAR. THAT'S IT. IT'S OVER. STOP WRITING. 226 WINS.

251 - I complained about free riders and did just what you suggested. I started my own practice 3 years ago and couldn't be happier. From someone who now has to deal with the business end, I was right on in identifying the free rider problem. Clearly, you have never run a business or had to think about the economics of the legal profession. Although, your lack of even a basic understanding of economics makes me think you are probably a free rider yourself and fearful of getting fired. I would love to give you the boot.

252: You're an idiot and a retard, and you are not important on any deal. You are a fungible cog (and a stupid cog, indeed).

Regarding NJ girls, has anyone else noticed that by the time they're 25 they all have that faint mustache thing going?

@261 "Hi, I work at " doesn't mean shit in the real world. Nobody is impressed with what firm you work at other than the snobby ass people you already hang out with and maybe your Grandmother.

On second thought, your Grandmother knows you're an idiot.

Also your cleverly worded reply that you're thinking about right now about how I'm jealous or some shit because I went to some TTT...FAIL

"It is no coincidence that only the very top firms are lockstep."

Lockstep was the old standard. Non-lockstep has been working its way up the firm food chain for years. The best explanation is not that lockstep helps a firm be elite, but that being elite permits them to keep lockstep longer before the pain becomes too great.

Also, I doubted whether the resources firms spend on recruitment were wise but had the chance to speak with mutiple V30 hiring partners/managing partners/former managing partners about it. They all seemed dead convinced that the "race for talent" was of vital importance. Whether it's true or not, they seem to genuinely think it's true.

Lockstep is supposed to boost collegiality. There are means of keeping things fairly collegial while more accurately compensating people for their work-- there are a lot of steps between lockstep and "2100 gets you huge bonus, 2099 gets you nothing."

One more bonus announcement of interest and then never reading ATL again.

Regarding TTT girls, has anyone else noticed that by the time they're 25 they all have that faint mustache thing going?

The following are undeniable facts:

1) All S&C associates on this board who billed 2600 hours are either full of shit or just got fed a heaping pile of Rodge chode for the bonus they received.

2) Contrary to what every 2L or 1st year associate douche says on this board some groups simply don't have work. Thus billing 1400 hours doesn't mean these associates are lazy and should be shot because those billing 3300 hours at Kirkland or Weil doing IP/bankruptcy deserve the salaries and bonuses of those billing less. Face it you mooseknuckles capital markets and banking are coming back and firms need these associates because when things turn around and said IP/bankruptcy mooseknucles go back to billing 1100 hours someone has to do the work.

3) 136 painted the best image in the history of this board. Having lived in London a few years back and seen what goes down after skanky British ladies pound the booze all night, (especially with the 11 pm pub last call) I wish I was heading east on the train to Essex at 4 am to be making out with a buxom dentally challenged dirty blonde as she pukes on my shoes.

4) If you bill 1400 hours you don't deserve a bonus. (You also don't deserve to be laid off so the guy one floor above can make a quadruple bonus). Basically you did not have to sacrifice your free time, sanity and health to the extent necessary for your firm to pay you above and beyond what you are getting paid.

5) Any jerk off who says "ITS NO LONGER WORTH IT TO LIVE IN NEW YORK" because of this year's bonuses doesn't get it. People live in NY because they like the lifestyle, people and not having to get in a car and sit in traffic to and fro work everyday (even if that car is a BMW or Range Rover). Having a 5 bedroom house 30 minutes outside of Dallas/Phoenix/Charlotte/Atlanta/San Antonio/Tuscaloosa and a riding John Deere lawnmower on one's lawn isn't why people go to law school or live in a certain city. If so god bless.

6) Partners, people on this board or the legal community at large doesn't give a left nut if you, despite the fact that you are an associate editor on law review, got an A on your civ pro exam and have a 3.685 threaten to not work in a certain city. You will end up at a law firm somewhere, take it deep in the bunghole and ask for more regardless of your grades, city or firm you end up choosing. You aren't swaying public opinion by your anonymous comments on this board.

That's it for now. Thanks much.

270 = party asshole

228: Good thing that you're not planning to stay long. Clean up your desk and pillage whatever work product you can, because I don't know a single partner who will vote you in -- especially at an operation like S&C.

You can get new business cards and a new telephone number, and you can bill 2700 hours per year forever, but you'll be in the same place and you'll never make partner. Never -- especially at an operation like S&C.

That goes for most of the rest of the clowns on this thread (and elsewhere) whining about the difference between $350k and $375k. If you're ready to walk over money like that when you're making money like that, then quit talking about it and go. Everybody wants you to (really, they do), and they'll be happy when you're gone. Nobody wants you in the partnership. Too bad for you, but good for the partners, and here's a news flash: that's the point.

You think you're different? You think you're special? You think you're not fungible? If you were, then you'd get paid and wouldn't have anything to complain about. Since you didn't get paid, and you're clearly complaining, then you're fungible. Time to leave, if you dare. Just don't think that your situation will be different anywhere else. You'll still be working for the partners, you'll still be fungible, and you won't have years of good will built up. You'll have to bill 2700 hours per year for people who don't know you and couldn't really care less. And you still won't make partner because you're too self-important and self-absorbed. Even the most pompous, megalomaniacal partner types are in the partnership for the partnership -- nobody wants your type around.

You think "reviews" cease just because you make partner? Try sitting before the Percentage Committee (or whatever) every year and justifying your draw. It's sad how foaming-at-the-mouth career associates rant about partner avarice, as though the partners don't deserve to reap the rewards of their hard work. You don't think they did their time and paid their dues? You think it's all milk and honey? Unfortunately for you, you'll almost certainly never know, unless you figure out how the world works and start acting your age. Don't like the pyramid scheme? Go in-house and wither away at $185k for the rest of your career, or hang a shingle with your father-in-law.

Maybe you're just venting and feeling like you can get some stuff off your chest, comforted by the relative anonymity of the Internet. Fine. Maybe we can all cut you some slack if you're just stirring the pot. But if you really (honestly) feel that you've been wronged in some way by the partnership at S&C, then you don't have a prayer in this business.

RECALL: 271 would like to retract his comment.

272 = party asshole

We NEED 272 on that wall

Comment at 270 is one that should be read by all. That should be featured as an article in its own right - Elie, take note!

You thought that Bunny had been kidnapped and you were fuckin' glad, man. You could use it as an excuse to make some money disappear. You'd just met me... You human paraquat! You figured 'Oh, here's a loser. A deadbeat, someone the square community won't give a shit about.

Well, aren't you?

Well... yeah.

277 is the biggest ahole I have ever met ever!

Hey everyone, please vote for ATL:

http://www.abajournal.com/blawgs/blawg100_2008/news

252 - Wow! So it obviously makes you feel better about doing nothing but due diligence to call people who know what they're talking about "retard." Well, whatever makes you feel better. I'll go on keeping clients happy and handling calls where you and your ilk are stealthily taken off deals involving more sophisticated matters. But Thanks for the laugh. 246.

In case you are wondering, here's generally how it works.

Client: "What the F*** is this in [insert relevant document identifier here] that some associate,Third Year Harvard Fuck, emailed to the working group this afternoon? Did Eighth Year Superstar review this?"

Partner: "Third Year Harvard Fuck was supposed to have given it to Eighth Year Superstar before sending it out. Let me check."

Two minutes later, EYS emails Partner with a "What the Hell is Third Year Harvard doing? He didn't send this to me before sending it to client. It's full of stupid mistakes. Let me call client NOW."

Client: "Hello, Eighth Year Superstar? Yes, I see. Get the revised doc to me in two hours. We need to get moving on this deal now. And don't let Third Year Harvard anywhere near this deal. I don't want to see him on another one of our deals. Period."

Two months later, Eighth Year Superstar notices Partner has staffed TYHF on another deal, immediately lets Partner know, and TYHF gets cut without a word.

Then overheard in the breakroom or somewhere else, TYHF brags about how he took the initiative on the deal, stepped on EYS's toes, and now EYS won't work with him.

So yeah, I know what I am talking about.

279: the situation you described is not normal. Sorry, but it's just not. People at most biglaw firms don't act like idiots as did your TYHF example. Please come up with an example that isn't stupid, and then we'll talk.

A second tip: don't criticize others for using ad homs and then accuse them of only performing due diligence. It makes you look, well, dumb (unless you personally know the poster and can attest that they in fact only work on due diligence, but I doubt that's the case, and instead think that you saw "the words due diligence" in a prior post and decided to make an insult about it).

272: I doubt most of the associates on this board actually seriously think they can become partner, especially "at an operation like S&C" (maybe I'm wrong). The S&C name gives them other options (i.e. withering away inhouse for 185K a year). In the meantime, they want to get paid for their work. When you can get paid more at Orrick it kind of hurts morale... I've worked with some Orrick folks... wasn't impressed.

I think people would have appreciated more creativity in structuring bonuses this year... i.e. when everyone is billing over 2000 high lockstep with some special for those whose hours were really ridiculous is fine. When some people are at 1400 and some at 2800 (and the 1400s may be doing a good job, but just don't have enough work), don't screw the 2800s because of the 1400s... (also, no one who bills 1400 should get a bonus)

For the record, I'm going to be between 1900 and 2000 and hopeful I can get my half-Skadden. But if I did 2400 or 2800, and got half-Skaddened, I wouldn't be happy... if the firm hasn't made as much money, it wouldn't have been my fault...

Also... you don't really sound like a nice guy to work for...

Because of its hours requirement, OMM will probably pay out less in bonuses, per attorney, than SCC, yet people here were almost uniformly positive about the OMM announcement.

No sign of a bonus note from Rodge in my office at S&C.

252 = upset because even though he knows so much about deals, he will get a smaller bonus than almost every jones day associate.

252 = upset because even though he knows so much about deals, he will get a smaller bonus than almost every jones day associate.

@65 -- Weil announced it would match special bonuses in November last year. Weil didn't announce official bonuses until the end of January.

168 -- do you realize that MS cut bonuses by 50% after a horrible year? S&C supposedly had a great year and when you include the cut special bonuses, just slashed bonus by more than 50%.

Rodge -- er, I mean "272" -- remember what we told you about mixing red wine and blogging? Mr. 228 has a legitimate beef. Associates have always been miserable at S&C; this is well understood by law students, and yet a few of them each year turn down offers from other NY firms to join you. No one does it solely for the prestige, since the name of any of at least 6 or 7 other NY firms on a resume provides the exact same mobility. They come to S&C because they know (or thought they knew) that they'd be paid top of the market, year in and year out (with the exception of WLRK, but almost by definition we are talking about associates who didn't get an offer from WLRK, or were too terrified and insecure to accept one).

Go back and read the posts from S&C associates on this board over the past few weeks as other firms fell in behind Cravath. Note the pervasive air of smugness. Watch this putrefaction grow with each passing day as the S&C posters begin to suspect that you're running out the clock on your competitors -- you'll come through at the end of the year, leaving the other firms no time to match. If other firms fail to match you, S&C will be the undisputed champ of the NY legal market, well-deserving of the unintentionally hilarious picture of Mt. Everest on your website. And if other firms scramble to catch up with you, you'll be the celebrated saviour of NY associates. Either way, a recruiting bonanza.

You just forfeited your only advantage. Better come up with another.

Lawyer, Bankers, Traders Destroy World
Want to get Paid For It!
News at 6

Stop crying, many new york attorneys are searching for contract gigs and live hand to mouth. Your not special little snowflakes, your human capital. Suck it up.

144: Here! Hair!

Lawyers, Bankers, Traders Destroy World
Want to get Paid For It plus Big Bonus
Meanwhile they tell us all to bend over so they can Bone Us some more!
News at 6

Incorrect 286. I am WGM associate and we announced regular year-end bonuses in December last year. January was when people found out if they recieved even more for being a top biller/top of their class.

Any JONES DAY news this morning?

what is WITH all these guys from west virginina shitting on associates?

Well, Sidley Chicago fucked us. I billed 2600 in -- and got slightly more than what a half-Skadden for my class would have been. That's more than what I would have gotten in NY, but still about 20k less than my class in NY got last year. I am sick of hearing how challenging a year it is going to be - the partners decided to depart from the traditional hours-based bonuses and screw us because they could. I won't ever forget this. Also, no mention of salary advancement yet - looks like they want to follow Latham but are still scared to.

1. Does everyone forget that all the Half-skadden bonus receivers still make $160,000 A YEAR ON TOP OF WHATEVER BONUSE THEY GET, even if it's a "paltry" 17,500-32,000 (paltry, HAAAAAAAAAAHA)?

2. Does everyone forget that in a year or two, bankrupcty will go back to where it is all the time (i.e. not in times of GREAT recession), i.e. NOT a good practice area and not a bread-winner like M&A and Lit. So yeah Weil, pay your bonuses now, b/c when you go back to being that bankruptcy firm with shitty corporate, you'll go back to being that firm that's lucky to still be top 10.

3. Does everyone forget that Cravath, S&C, and Wachtell will alwyas wipe the floor with any other firm. Skadden will NEVER be seen in the same leage. I don't care if they are number 4, or the biggest firm in the US, or pay higher bonuses (This Year b/c of erroneously coming out first). The firm just will NEVER be seen as in the same league. It's an amazing firm, but it's not pedigree. In 50 years, it will be, but then Cravath and S&C will be legendary. Sorry, bitches.

And don't even try to tell me that there is a Skadden associate that exists that got an offer from both Cravath and S&C and turned them down for Skadden, or tell me that they now regret it b/c of this one-year weirdness in bonuses. It just aint the case.

Just saw Rodge Cohen this morning walking up Lexington around 53rd Street!

288, S&C associates are almost by definition Vault-prestige-chasing douchebags who couldn't get into Cravath (and of course Wachtell). They go to S&C for the marginally higher prestige than DPW or Cleary, since everyone knows that almost all lockstep firms in the Vault 20 pay exactly the same salary and bonus (barring some accident like Skadden this year).
An associate who goes to S&C over Cleary, because he thought that only the former and not the latter paid top of the market, should probably have done some more research about salaries.

297 = EPIC FAIL

Any word on JD this morning?

hey 297, I got an offer from Cravath (and several other firms) and went to a different V20 firm (i.e. not Cravath or Skadden). Not everyone is a vault-prestige obsessed whore. Sorry to burst your bubble.

"People live in NY because they like the lifestyle..."

I live in Dallas, walk to work, live on the 24th floor of a high rise luxury apartment with no roommate, hardwood floors, and a beautiful view overlooking downtown. I can go to any restaurant in the city and wear jeans if I want. It's 68 degrees today. And for what I save in taxes alone being a bankruptcy associate, I can fly to NYC 40 times a year.

So if someone will please explain how NY life is sooooooo much better, with your average bonuses, your 2800+ hours and your asshole partners who don't know your name, I'd really love to hear it.

Give it up people. Go be an attorney in another city. I still get flown to the SDNY a dozen or more times a year to help argue motions... and the firm picks up the hotel bill and food tab. You can probably pull off the same in Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, etc....

200 YOU are a douche

Hey I've got an idea. Stop feeling sorry for yourselves! As one of your support staff who's out of a job and made a fraction of what a first year does, I can tell you you're not suffering. In the grand scheme of things, I'm not even suffering and I don't even know if I can pay rent next month. I don't feel sorry for myself. No longer working for you narrow-minded assholes is the best thing that ever happened to me. GO FUCK YOURSELVES!!!

I was a Skadden associate with an offer to lateral to Cravath, which I turned down. Never regretted it for an instant...

I'm from Texas, clerked at a Dallas firm my 3L summer (before a clerkship in Houston) and both in Dallas and Houston could either walk to work or had a 2 minute drive -- and I'd still rather be in NYC despite the higher cost of living. I understand Texas associates disagree. Fine, but stop telling me what a bad decision I made. I'm quite happy here in NYC.

303's the only person who knows what "quality of life" means. Way to keep it real. The rest of you should stop enjoying the smell of your own farts and take a look at the world (which extends beyond NYC, if you hadn't noticed)

303, we live in NYC instead of Dallas so that we can avoid insufferable douchebags (like you) who gloat over and criticize others for making different lifestyle choices. If you do not have a chip on your shoulder, trying desperately to justify why moving to Dallas was a wise decision, you would not care why other people choose to live in other cities.
But I guess bringing down people who choose to live in NYC makes you feel better about living in Texas.

It's no coincidence that so many people from Texas with inferiority complexes attack people who live in NYC. You don't see San Francisco lawyers justifying on the Internet why SF is so much better than NYC and why NYC residents are fools.

Rodge just came to my office! I begged him to use the lube, but he wouldn't listen...jesus that just hurt.

303--Yes, but you live in Dallas. Q.E.D.

NYC residents are fools. I live in a shithole in the mission, eat burritos off the syringe-strewn concrete, have sex with random transients who hunker down in my stairwell, and occasionally try to swim to Alcatraz.. Suck it, NYC.

-Smug SanFran Associate Loving Life.

303 - Life is soooooooo much better because I live in NYC and NOT in Texas. Get it?

There is no more comical theme than the 2500+ hour billers who bitch about having to carry associates who aren't currently billing 2000+ hours. Newsflash: you are an associate. You are not billing a lot of hours because you're such a fantastic lawyer, you're billing a lot of hours because the partners you work for have work to give you. Folks that aren't billing a lot of hours work for partners who don't have work to give them. If they aren't billing because they're turning down work, they would be fired. You could be the greatest capital markets associate in the world right now and your hours would be down because the capital markets are a shitshow. By your logic, firms should fire all their finance and m&a associates and bulk up on bankruptcy associates, because one is currently slow and the other is currently busy. That's the kind of logic non-lockstep firms follow. Ask the people who are running Cadawalader right now how that business model is working for them.

Why does Texas care so much that the rest of the country hates them? Why can't they just get over it?

I don't have an inferiority complex. I'm from here. I went to an Ivy League school. I've seen both sides, and I came back. As a bankruptcy person, I work on the same level of cases you NYers do, largely in the SDNY or D. Del. I suppose if I was a finance guy, it would make much more sense to be in NYC, but for most of the rest of you, especially people here who have been complaining for weeks about their hours because they're in restructuring or lit and are getting "paltry" bonuses, well, you can do that work anywhere. Heck, some of you may not even have to change firms, just change offices.

I just think at the end of the day you all spend a lot of time rationalizing living in a city that I'm happy to visit, but that offers little in the way of benefits I can't get via the occasional 3.5 hour flight. And "because it's not Texas" is not an argument.

-303

I don't have an inferiority complex. I'm from here. I went to an Ivy League school. I've seen both sides, and I came back. As a bankruptcy person, I work on the same level of cases you NYers do, largely in the SDNY or D. Del. I suppose if I was a finance guy, it would make much more sense to be in NYC, but for most of the rest of you, especially people here who have been complaining for weeks about their hours because they're in restructuring or lit and are getting "paltry" bonuses, well, you can do that work anywhere. Heck, some of you may not even have to change firms, just change offices.

I just think at the end of the day you all spend a lot of time rationalizing living in a city that I'm happy to visit, but that offers little in the way of benefits I can't get via the occasional 3.5 hour flight. And "because it's not Texas" is not an argument.

-303

I"m laughing at some morons saying that bankers and traders should get paid what they generate in profits, because they're "taking risk." Neither lawyers at big firms nor bankers and traders are taking any risk. You're not risking any capital, real estate, or anything else. The owners of the company do that. It's such a childish mentality, to think that real capitalists would believe that lawyers should get paid higher bonuses for billing more. The partners take the risk. Not you. What you're "worth" is what you can get someone to pay you.

314, there is a happy medium between firing people in slow practice groups and paying them exactly the same money as everyone else. It's called paying them less money.
If they're dissatisfied with the lower compensation, they can try to lateral and see how many firms are hiring for their practice group.

63 & 86--

The Chicago firms are going to pay HUGE bonii, because they all only have two or three associates left--You clearly haven't been paying attention to Elie, who has made it clear that Chicago is doing much, much worse than anywhere else.

314 - Couldn't agree with you more. Morons bitching about how hey hit 2500 hours and they don't want to carry people a floor below in cap markets who are billing 1400 are idiots. Is a good business model for a firm to fire everybody in m&a, capital markets and banking and have 450 IP, litigation and bankruptcy associates? Would that be the money? It is the same moronic thinking that drove Mckee Nelson, Thacher Profitt and Cadwalader to the crapper... focusing only on structured finance and mortgage backed securities associats. McKee was even leading the market a few years back paying $35K to bonuses to first years when the market was $25. Look what happened there. For firms it makes sense to carry associates in traditionally productive markets like m&a, cap. markets, etc. because these are the groups bringing in the big bucks. Firing entire departments (unless the work is NEVER coming back) because they are only billing 1300 or 1400 hours is suicide for a firm since it will take years to build back the department in terms of recruitment, hiring laterals, etc. not to mention having to turn down work once the market turns.

K&E Associates asked for travel plans and contact info:

That's just so the share partner(s) you are working for can tell you to get on the next plane to get back to the office to do some filing or other non-time-sensitive nonsense and churn the file some more. I GUARANTEE it ain't so they know how to reach you to let you know the size of your bonus. Dumbf*ckers.

319, the same can be said for you. If you're dissatisfied, you can try to lateral to another firm/industry. Oh wait.

Everyone knows that everything is bigger in Texas, including their AIDS, hence the phrase "TEXAS BIG AIDS"

It all makes sense if you take the time to think about it.

This thread is nothing but rats fighting other rats over crumbs of cheese tossed by our rat masters.

Fight the man instead of behaving like rats.

Quit, join fight club, travel around the world, be a bum, welsh on your debts, go back to school, move back with mom and dad. You have options instead of whining over a measly $10,000 difference in bonuses in a miserable economy.

288 -- i'm not starting law school till next year, but i gotta ask -- why would someone be too insecure to accept an offer from wachtell? i don't understand -- what's the risk?

297 -- lol at you thinking that NYC sweatshops are prestigious for associates. they're ONLY prestigious for PARTNERS. there are several firms that are much more difficult to get and more selective than S&C and cravath -- which hires any HLS grad w/ a pulse. they just need semi-smart warm bodies to do doc review for 3 years before they spit them out.

the REAL law firms for associates -- the ones that the top grads from HLS and YLS go to -- are NOT s&c or cravath,

211: the problem with your underlying assumption - "if partners have to take a huge paycut because the ENTIRE ECONOMY is tanking..." is that it's wrong. S&C was very busy this year. Associates are forced to take over a 50% bonus cut. Do you think partners are taking a pay cut? I bet profits per partner are strong as ever, if not stronger.

I agree with you that a securities associate billing 1,400 hours a year making as much as financial institutions associate billing 2,500 hours a year is retarded.

I'm amazed that so many of you have so much time to post comments on this site. Since you have so much time to whine about bonuses and whatever else you consider to be unfair (as opposed to doing actual work), perhaps you don't deserve a bonus. And if some of you display the same poor taste and poor judgment when dealing with clients or making strategic decisions regarding your cases that you display in your comments, you should consider yourself lucky that you have a job. Save whatever money you have as you'll probably need it when your firm wakes up and realizes what a worthless loser you really are.

FIRST!!!!!!!!

I'm amazed that so many of you have so much time to post comments on this site. Since you have so much time to whine about bonuses and whatever else you consider to be unfair (as opposed to doing actual work), perhaps you don't deserve a bonus. And if some of you display the same poor taste and poor judgment when dealing with clients or making strategic decisions regarding your cases that you display in your comments, you should consider yourself lucky that you have a job. Save whatever money you have as you'll probably need it when your firm wakes up and realizes what a worthless loser you really are.

323, actually, by definition the high billers are in practice groups that are in demand and have much better lateral opportunities than low billers. Also, I personally am not complaining since I'm in a non-lockstep firm. So whether I can leave or not is irrelevant. And in fact, we are hiring people who are dissatisfied with lockstep and believe that they should be rewarded for doing more work rather than being dragged down toward the mean.

When making a "tu quoque" retort, try to make sure first that the situations are roughly analogous.

331: Do you really think people billing huge hours don't have 10 minutes in a day to post on this site? Really?

And do you think people interact in the same way on this blog as when they talk to clients? When did you become so terrible at logic and reasoning?

331: Do you really think people billing huge hours don't have 10 minutes in a day to post on this site? Really?

And do you think people interact in the same way on this blog as when they talk to clients? When did you become so terrible at logic and reasoning?

You barely have to be a midlevel supervising 1st and 2nd years before you realize the value and necessity of being able to trust the work of those underneath you.

And you don't have to be at a total TTT to realize that some associates are just not as diligent as others.

This is why firms scramble for the HYS and law review kids and why firms pay juniors so much. The work law firms do has to be done 99% perfect every time and making mistakes can be extremely costly (remember that Davis first year and the 8-figure mistake?).

So to the secretaries and staff bitching that associates are overpaid and to those saying associates are replacable in masse, I say that you are dead wrong (I mean try to get a secretary or a paralegal to complete a simple task without a mistake). Remember, partners make millions every year because their work is so valuable and associates only make a small fraction (10-15%) of that.

335, I don't remember said first year and 8-figure mistake. Please be to elaborating, yes?

Weil doesn't announce until mid-January, because they pay us our bonuses at the end of Jan.

327, do you got to HLS? Because you're wrong, and an idiot. The top students DO go to S&C and Cravath, and WLRK. The other top students, become clerks. I'd love to know which firms you think the Top students go to, I guarantee you it isn't yours.

336,

I think maybe he means the Cleary 1st year associate?

336,

I think maybe he means the Cleary 1st year associate?

319/332,

See what quality of lawyer you get in the "slow" areas when you pay them less than the other associates in down years: the kind of crappy associates that generally make non-lockstep firms hives of really bad lawyers. There is a reason that they call it Cadworthless.

Big firm lawyers are lemmings. I own my own practice, work 1/3 as much as you, and make double the money. I'm glad I skiied and played golf in law school . . . and got C's. You're glorified temps, all of you.

Big firm lawyers are lemmings. I own my own practice, work 1/3 as much as you, and make double the money. I'm glad I skiied and played golf in law school . . . and got C's. You're glorified temps, all of you.

Big firm lawyers are lemmings. I own my own practice, work 1/3 as much as you, and make double the money. I'm glad I skiied and played golf in law school . . . and got C's. You're glorified temps, all of you.

last!!!!!!

*farts*

S&C partners: this choice you made passed up a good opportunity to distinguish yourself from the market for a much lower price than it costs to do so in other phases of the cycle. Why was creating such a distinction (i) not seen as valuable (generating sufficient benefit to outweigh its costs), (ii) not executed despite being valuable (how does the partnership make and vote on issues of inter-temporal valuation)?

S&C associates: almost all of us earned more based on hours worked (I got paid in the neighborhood $70/hour working). Our clients are cutting their bonuses, and the partners who make decisions on such matters are as sensitive or more sensitive to client perceptions than to short-term associate satisfaction. I'm hoping that the bonus in April will be larger because the market bonus has had its desired effects.

Rodge Cohen, the postal service and the chinks - the three great evils of our world.

Bump for Dechert destroying S&C in terms of bonus compensation.