Cravath Continues to Think Ahead
Back when Cravath, Swaine & Moore announced its bonus structure, you’ll remember that there were two surprising aspects to the memo. The cash money was less than people expected to be sure. But at the time we also noted this surprising language:
Given the uncertainty of the economy and the business climate going forward, we will not be able to address the issue of whether there will be any year-end bonuses in 2009 until this time next year. However, associates should be prepared for the likelihood that the economy and the Firm’s financial performance next year will not show a significant improvement over this year and they may receive significantly reduced or no year-end bonuses next year.
Now, there is more — albeit anecdotal — evidence that Cravath is looking into their 2009 crystal ball, and planning further cutbacks. This year, the firm proceeded with their usual holiday party plans. But next year, things could be different:
Normally, they have a HUGE holiday party in the Rainbow Room. Word on the street is that next year, the party will either be in the “Cravatheteria” (the firm cafeteria) or not at all.
And that might not be the only Cravath cutback. More after the jump.
The other “perk” that might be going away is the biennial “Cravath Prom.” A tipster tells us:
[T]he Cravath prom which happens every two years, has been canceled. The last prom was an amazing affair—the firm rented Ellis Island (yes, the entire island) for their party. Rows of U.S. Wildlifre workers greeted Cravath folk off the ferry, and guests could walk around the island (and get drinks and food…).
Given that the firm led to market in slashing bonuses by as much as 73% from last year, it is hardly surprising that the firm is looking for other ways to reduce costs. If thinking this far ahead helps the firm avoid layoffs, nobody is going to care where Cravath holds its 2009 holiday parties.
But the signal that Cravath is sending out suggests that the firm is bracing itself for a very difficult 2009.
What does Cravath know “first” this time?
Earlier: Associate Bonus Watch: Cravath Offers Less Than Skadden
(118) Comments
Comments
CRAVATH IS SEXIST FIRST
That hiring a 160 person summer class was an epic mistake?
Cravath pooped itself first.
semi-annual should be bi-annual if it happens every two years instead of twice a year
Semi-annual? Really, Elie, Cravath holds proms twice a year? You sure you didn't want to say biennial?
DEAR IDIOTS:
Biannual = semi-annual = twice a year
Biennial = every two years
HTH
Well, on an Elie scale, this was a 10!
Well done young man.
I fucked 12
In a time machine, 8?
Good Lord, MysTTTAL is shockingly incompetent. I hope for the sake of this blog that Latty boy is at least talking to MysTTTAL about double checking his posts.
I used to think that people were just picking on Elie, and that writing for hundred of anal proofreading associates/law students was the hardest job in the blogosphere. Now, as he fails to spell check, and continues to make elementary mistake, I am coming around to the harsh critics' way of thinking.
Elie, please - you are representing HLS here. Don't let us down so badly(!)
Its all marketing. Cravath Partners all fine. They've just finally accepted they are nowhere near in the same league as WLRK and are just another pretty good law firm. The only way to keep their client's happy is to make a show out of "tightening their belts" while WLRK is like "whatever' pay us cause we're worth it.
At my law school, gunners never went to holiday parties; it was no big deal.
11 - "continues to make elementary mistake" indeed.
We've identified two of the three v10s that will be dropping to the 10 to 20 range in the not too distant future.
1. Cravath
2. Latham
3. ???
Who's going to be #3?
DPW has long done its holiday party in its cafeteria. They actually fix it up pretty nice. This year, people might actually have time to go.
Soon Cravath will cut all training and dvelopment expenses. I and my fellow K&E Associates can send them recordings of our KITA trials to be helpful.
But is it the Dpwatheteria?
I would like to hear more from you insiders about how Cravath is sexist.
18, it's called the Davispolketeria.
6,
From Merriam Webster
Main Entry:
bi·an·nu·al
Pronunciation:
\(ˌ)bī-ˈan-yə(-wə)l\
Function:
adjective
Date:
1877
1 : occurring twice a year
2 : biennial 1
Yes, the second usage of biannual is, in fact, biennial. Great legal research there dipwad, now back to your doc review.
Check your mail box Kevin - There may be a letter there . . . .
I've heard reports of Cravath associates doing basically nothing for extended periods of time lately. None of this should be surprising.
The Davispolkateria is awesome. Well, awesome for a cafeteria. Which is actually not that awesome in the grand scheme of things.
It's more collegial than the Cravatheteria though. Don't they have separate cafeterias for the associates and partners?
You know what Cravath knows first? That its better than you. Elie, seriously, sorry you got rejected, but that was a long time ago get over it. Do you post wild speculation about ANY other firm. No. What's your deal?
and 12, you're a joke. not only are CSM and WLRK in the same league, but WLRK is in CRAVATH's league, and only joined it barely a decade ago. Keep billing, bitch.
Main Entry: bi·en·ni·al
Pronunciation: \(ˌ)bī-ˈe-nē-əl\
Function: adjective
Date: 1562
1: occurring every two years
2: continuing or lasting for two years ; specifically : growing vegetatively during the first year and fruiting and dying during the second
It's a walkoff
I am sure that Cravath really cares what a big fat retard who can't spell thinks.
or walk off, for those not from Minsk.
Cravath to CravaTTTh?
The DPW holiday party in the cafeteria is awful every year. It was last night and had the spread had much less variety (and less of it) than years past, plus no champagne as in years past. Guess there is not that much worth celebrating this year? Oh and it is held at 4:30 pm so that it is extra-convenient to scoot down for a snack and then head back up to do work. Ugh. They really need to change this (in a better economy).
Hi 21,
Perhaps you're familiar with the term "millennial"; that is, occurring every thousand years. Or "centennial" occurring every hundred years. In the same way, "biennial" means occurring every two years.
Simply because "biannual" has been so frequently used incorrectly does M-W find it necessary to consider it synonymous with "biennial."
Congrats, 21. Now, you and the other Cooley students have a big Civ Pro exam to go study for. Hurry up!
how/why did cravath hire 160 summers last year??? anybody know the scoop? they only have 400 lawyers!! who the hell hires 40% of their lawyers in summers??
apologize if this has been covered before on atl. can somebody catch me up?
also, how come i keep meeting people who summer'd at csm but aren't going back full time? do they not give 100% offers, or does it suck even during the summer?
The funny thing is that Cravath lawyers really do seem to care what random people say about it. I've never seen a more insecure bunch.
LEAVE HIM ALONE! You are lucky he even performed for you BASTARDS!
LEAVE ELIE ALONE!
is there anything more tedious than a prescriptivist/descriptivist debate on usage? please, stfu, we all know that Elie meant "every two years"
Are holiday parties ever not awful? Seriously- does anybody ever have a good time at these things? I'd take a quick and painless party in the firm cafeteria any day.
What's the deal with the Handicap Parking situation at the Special Olympics? Is it still just the 2 spots by the front door?
These cutbacks confirm the unique, weak position Cravath finds itself in right now. It turns out that its decision to go "half-Skadden" was brilliant, but it was initially risky.
Here are the facts:
1. Skadden tries to set the market conservatively lower than last year by eliminating the special bonus. Skadden is well-diversified and could likely afford even to pay regular plus special. PPP number will confirm this.
2. Cravath is caught off guard that Skadden acted first, but decides that it must pull a half-Skadden due to a cash crisis. Hours and collections are down due to its over-emphasis on work tied to the sunken financial industry. So, Cravath screws associates in order to preserve PPP (or cushion the blow) while retaining some cash in reserve in case 2009 turns out to be even worse than projected.
3. Cravath takes the risk and immediately announces the half-bonus hoping (correctly) that all other firms would follow Cravath rather than Skadden.
4. All other NY firms follow Cravath - even those that could afford to pay Skadden levels. The latter firms really deserve associates' scorn, and will be identified once PPP numbers come out. When it comes to greed, associates' memories are long.
5. Cravath comes out looking "prudent" while Skadden is either generous to its associates or over-paying, depending upon your perspective.
6. Latham tries to pull a Cravath on salary and loses. Latham now looks much weaker than even Cravath. Deathwatch begins.
Although Cravath's risk paid off, it should not be forgotten that Cravath screwed not only its associates, but all the associates at firms that could have afforded to pay more. Cravath did so to hide its own financial crisis. Cravath is projecting WEAKNESS, don't forget that, and so is Latham.
The Kaye Scholer holiday party was actually pretty awesome. We had about 25-30 gaming tables and were each given "$1000" in chips at the beginning of the night to play with. food was decent, bars were great, and gambling is gambling. So eat a D, nerds.
Actually, 35, watching Elie and your mom last night was pretty tedious.
i am not clear here, are these the same idiots who hired 150 summers because, even after the credits market froze in august of 2007, they did not understand a slow down was coming?
or was that some other group of idiots who "are looking into their crystal ball"?
Brobeck just announced bonuses. They are not good!
38 hit the nail on the head.
I used to think Ramses was the best. It turns out he's a real douche.
ell oh ell
Love the insecurity oozing out of the Cravath associates. See 25. Looks like Cravath is barely in Orreck's league.
Diversification pays off. Other than WLRK, the best bonuses will be paid this year by firms with the most diversified portfolios of non-routine legal work, Skadden and K&E.
Rumor has it Cravath switched from Charmin 2 ply toilet paper to single ply Cosco brand toilet paper!!! Sign of things to come??? I expect a story.
Cravath, like S&C and DPW, has had a pretty horrible year. While the bailout work is prestigious, it doesn't make up for the bulk of everyday transactions that have gone AWOL.
It's easy to criticize these firms for having too much emphasis on finance, but in the end I think that this will be what saves them. FInance is what they do well -- better than anyone else. It's their defining characteristic. Unlike some of the crazier securitization stuff, the corporate finance that these firms do will not stay down forever. And when it returns, you'll see them back on top.
38 to EIC. When do PPP numbers come out, anyway?
Finally, time for the Cravath-holes to pay the piper.
Cravath Prom = Nerdfest.
So Cravath holds a prom so that it's attorney can go to an event that they didn't go to in high school? I'll put 2 bill down on the fact that 50 percent of the attorneys couldn't get dates.
Wait a minute - has Cravath just become a TTT firm?
no layoffs? hehe!
Wait a minute - has Cravath just become a TTT firm?
if it's not already the case it think Cravath's cafeteria ought to be called Cravatheria and not Cravatheteria.
I thought I read Cravath PORN. *Shudders*
18 won. Won it all. BEST. COMMENT. EVER. I actually chuckled out loud. Close the site. Elie, Lat, Kash, please, never post again. Leave this thread like a delicate jewel frozen in amber to forever memorialize the absolute height of the nadir of Above the Law. Thank you 18, and may god bless you for all eternity.
Wait a minute - has Cravath just become a TTT firm?
evenything is just f***ed up.
What does Cravath know "first" this time?
As 2 correctly noted, that 160 summers truly was an epic mistake - where was its crystal ball then? Also its usual attrition rate will suck into 2009. Is this notice about 2009 before 2008 ends supposed to piss off some associates into moving on?
skadden will be cutting folks, just you watch
38,
Your post reveals that you have absolutely no idea what is going on at senior levels at Skadden or how Skadden's business model works.
People who routinely post about diversification in clients away from "finance" providing strength to firms in this environment have missed the plot of what is happening right now (maybe they're all litigators). Here is how a modern market economy works: some people need money to run their business, some people have money to provide to those businesses, and some people find ways to connect those who have the money with those who need the money. When the people who connect people with money cease to do so, in large part because the people who provide the money are afraid to part with it because they think they won't get it back, who gets f-ed? The people who need the money to run their businesses!
The folks who hire law firms that bill out partners at $900 per hour generally fall into the category of people who connect other people with money or people who need money -the two groups of people that are completely and utterly f-ed right now. Unless you work at a firm that exclusively does bankruptcy work, you too are f-ed right now.
Does anyone know how many Cravath summers there will be next year in 2009?
what is a "wildlifre worker"? Are they under the auspices of the Department of the Spellchecker? If they are I hope Obama nominates Strunk to be the Secretary of the Spellchecker
what is a "wildlifre worker"? Are they under the auspices of the Department of the Spellchecker? If they are, I hope Obama nominates Strunk to be the Secretary of the Spellchecker
I hear CSM is in merger talks with some firm in long island.
63, I don't disagree with you in principle. However, Skadden is better diversified than other firms, is employing underutilized corporate associates in busy areas, and still has enough corporate work to keep many (but not all) associates busy. I know, I work here. I also believe that some underperforming associates will be shown the door soon, and I won't disagree with that decision. I stand by my assertion that Skadden (as well as some other firms that followed Cravath) is on very solid ground and can easily afford the bonuses paid. The Cravath followers got off easy.
-38
It's amazing how Skadden is immune to a sinking economy that's affecting everyone else. Are they hq'd on the Moon???
I have another theory -- that skadden is just as affected as everyone else but was afraid to low ball the market. now they look stupid. And stealth layoffs will start soon.
cravath will have 160 summers in 2009.
69 - Skadden did low ball the market. And of course they're affected by the economy. Cravath is just in worse shape and low balled even more. No other time since Al Gore invented the internets has Cravath underpaid any firm other than Wachtell. It is weakness, pure and simple, that forced Cravath to low ball Skadden's first attempt to low ball. And some limited performance-related firings are likely to happen, it makes no sense not to cut the dead wood at times like this.
-38.
31:
Don't look up biweekly or your head might explode.
cravath will have 178 summers in 2009.
As an aside, heads of several law students actually did explode on post re: infamous Michigan 2L. Am ROFLMAO after seeing this hilarious comment:
"We are all wrong. We have been debating the FEDERAL Rules of Evidence, when this case (either crim or civil) would be a MI state case. Their hearsay rules may vary from the feds." Hmm, ya think?
WILDMAN HARROLD will have 178 summers in 2009.
The correct question is how many first years with Cravath have in 2010.
I just want to say that I think it's funny that a first-year at Skadden is paid roughly the same amount as a mid-level at Cravath. I wonder how Cravath associates feel about their "prestige" level at the moment?
15 - you're an idiot. before long you'll have all of the V10s dropping, so the rankings won't move much.
and Mystttal, it appears that cravath knows it "second" this time (latham was "first").
its clear no one in the legal industry is safe. some may feel it a bit worse than others, but everyone's going to hurt unless the economy turns around in '09.
I bet Cravath associates have lost that "twinkle" in their eye when they tell people where they work....and it is absolutely fantastic. And when Cravath outright cancels bonuses in 2009 (which it clearly will based on this year's memo), it will be even better. I love it. This puts a smile on my face.
I hear Cravath's 2009 summers will be treated to lunches at Friday's and the arab street vendors. Talk about prestige....
Number 25 said this:
"Not only are CSM and WLRK in the same league, but WLRK is in CRAVATH's league, and only joined it barely a decade ago."
Things have changed.
Cravath now has an entire marketing department helping partners pitch new business, just like partners do at firms like Sidley, Latham or Orrick.
WLRK does not have such a staff. It does not "pitch" business. It turns away business that it finds uninteresting.
That's how Cravath used to be.
CRAVATH JUST FROZE SALARIES
21 YOU are a douche!
i seem to recall posting 7 months ago that the bloated summer classes were going to cause problems.
if these "top" firms still have not figured it out, here is the deal: you have too many associates, and too many partners with no business. trim the fat and rightsize. top 80% at some shit school =/= equal multiple big law offers anymore....(It did = multiple offers in 2005-2007 sadly, and now the halls have the stench of the 2nd tier wafting thru them....brooklyn, cincinnati, northwestern....shitholes one and all)
Douche Patrol is the best. ATL needs you now more than ever.
77, please look up the $50,000 difference in base salaries between a first year and a mid-level at any firm. You, sir, are an ignorant idiot.
86 - That's a complete lie. The difference between a first year and a mid-level at ID firms is normally about $5K.
81- it's because Cravath is,as they've said themselves, looking to expand and grow the firm.
WLRK is not.
And where do you even get your information from anyway. You're a tool.
81--- you're a complete joke, and where do you even get your information.
Cravath is also looking to expand its firm size, so it makes sense if its looking to get more business.
And did you know WLRK cut its bonuses this year too... Why? B/C it's an M&A boutique, and next year is gonna be brutal for them. The only reason WLRK ever even got to be prestigious is because of it's outrageously high associate salaries and dedication to very hard work. If the firm paid as much as all the other firms, it would NOT be number 1,
88:
You call me a name.
But you agree with me.
Cravath has turned into another firm looking "to expand and grow" by doing "pitches" and hiring marketing people.
WLRK's size? Irrelevant to its lawyers.
New business "pitches?" WLRK answers the phone.
Cravath is a tremendous firm. But please do not mistake its current state as resembling WLRK.
Cravath 1944-2000 = WLRK today
Cravath 2001-today = Sully, DPW, etc.
"Cravath Continues To...." suck my ass.
Stealth Layoffs at DPW.
Skadden had its big summer associate party at Ellis Island this year, too.
Skadden 2, Cravath 0.
Can you guys help me? I have all these "prestiges" but I am not sure where I can spend them. Can someone please let me know where I can redeem all my prestiges? Thx!
What's a "prestige?" English may be my second language, 94, but I always thought prestige was intangible.
85 - is that a Black Dynamite trailer reference?
"Normally, they have a HUGE holiday party in the Rainbow Room. Word on the street is that next year, the party will either be in the "Cravatheteria" (the firm cafeteria) or not at all."
How would anyone know today that Cravath was planning to cancel/change the location of the 2009 holiday party?
97 - Everyone would know because they announced it at the Rainbow Room last night!
They announced what last night?
100!
People who bitch about proper grammar and spellchecking on a lousy blog are fucking lame. I feel sorry for your families.
People who bitch about proper grammar and spellchecking on a lousy blog are fucking lame. I feel sorry for your families.
92-
basis?
90- keep dreaming. WLRK answers the phone? haha, that's a laugh. You're an M&A boutique, give it up...Don't forget that Cravath partners are still more highly esteemed than WLRK partners, as they should be. They make a move. Everyone follows.
Does this post actually say anything? All it seems is to be yet another example of Elie just trying to come up with anything to bash Craavath. Anecdotal evidence of anything at any other firm would NEVER make it to a post.
105 - I'm not an Elie lover, but you're wrong. Cravath deserves to be bashed all the way to into the V20 for screwing an entire nation of BigLaw associates.
cravattth
last!!!!
*farts*
Thereal Last
Enough with the meaningless Cravath stories. Davis Polk is doing stealth layoffs but oh no! Cravath cancelled the prom. Cravath is being prudent (so they don't have to lay people off) while Davis Polk is actually laying people off. Which is news?
Cravath to half-skadden-non-lockstep-performance-based-latham-freeze-stealth-layoff-v20?!!!???!!!???
What's the world coming to??
Cravath has quietly asked at least one part time associate to look for another job because it is "time to move on." Nothing having to do with quality of work. Another sign of financial troubles?
Douche Patrol: we need you know more than ever. Clearance official: you are now permitted to name more than one DOUCHE per board -- all agree that the posts merit it. God Bless America and may God Bless Douche Patrol.
Douche Patrol: we need you now more than ever. Clearance official: you are now permitted to name more than one DOUCHE per board -- all agree that the posts merit it. God Bless America and may God Bless Douche Patrol.
Douche Patrol: we need you now more than ever. Clearance official: you are now permitted to name more than one DOUCHE per board -- all agree that the posts merit it. God Bless America and may God Bless Douche Patrol.
Cravath is the kind of place people go to work at if they are insecure and need a way to prove to the world that they matter.
Let's hope Cravath takes a few more hits.
68,
Responding to what I wrote by saying that Skadden's diversification protects them just proves that you missed my point entirely. Ask the partners you work for whether clients are paying their bills. Ask them whether they are out buying steaks and begging for work. It's a scary world right now and Skadden and others aren't immune to it.
63
111 -- if Cravath asked anyone to leave, part-time or not, it's because they just had their reviews. Whoever told you it "wasn't performance or anything" is full of crap.
Cravath may be more inclined to get rid of dead weight these days, but they've been very serious about not laying off associates and staff (stealth or otherwise).
So what is Cravath doing this year (2009)?
http://abovethelaw.com/2009/11/holiday_parties_in_2009.php