First.

Third

Debevoise: last in bonus announcement, last in respectability.

"Professionalism is it's own reward." Indeed. It is it is own reward.

Debevoise & PIMPTON suckas!
This is how we roll!
Why don't you go home and cry to your momma.

6:54 pm? Elie, what took you so long?

"public protestations of solid business" -- if they're doing well then they aren't protesting they're announcing or perhaps even trumpeting.

They are protesting against the gloomy news and outlook for the legal profession. Cf. "methinks the lady doth protest too much."

Will MJW leave to take a position in the Obama Administration? Or maybe a federal judgeship?

I'll work for health care and minimum wage. That's a government salary right there.

stealth announcement = douche patrol

Debevoise to TTT!

Disclosure: Elie used to work at Debevoise.

Debevoise & PlimpTTTon

It would be funnier if the graphic at the top had the right side of the money bag missing or whited out.

The Skadden partners look like fools now.

anyone know if shearman has announced?

2008 staff bonuses at Debevoise are the same as 2007--meaning senior legal assistants with plenty of overtime will get bonuses almost as large as associate bonuses.

Where's Sullivan & Cromwell at?

Why hasn't anyone commented on Howrey's layoffs?

Why hasn't anyone commented on Howrey's layoffs?

Is there any major New York firm left to announce besides Sullivan & Cromwell?

8:00 - Weil Gotshal (which has a great bankruptcy department, so they might be doing well these days).

People wouldn't be in their offices at 6:54? Why not?

The Skadden partners must be feeling real stupid by now.

"Schulte Roth, housed in the same building, announced the same scale earlier today."

But Schulte has a minimum billables requirement and Debevoise does not? Is that correct?

It seems that Elie keeps making the same mistake. D&P's bonus announcement is much, much more generous than SRZ's because it is paying all of its associates a bonus while SRZ is only paying the (presumably, very few) associates who have attained 2000 billable hours in this economy. While the scale might be the same, the bonus announcements are very different and shouldn't mentioned in the same breath.

Thelen just matched Skadden!

Elie,

We all understand why it's tempting to try to shame or humiliate firms that are behaving rationally by matching the market in bonuses and not irrationally by matching Skadden, but it just makes you sound like a petulant child who doesn't understand economics and market forces.

When does Girardi & Keese announce its bonus structure?

At my TTT mid-sized firm if you bill more than 2100 hours you'd make a few thousand more than a first year at Deb. LOSERS

Cravath announced low numbers because the firm is genuinely much slower than normal and business is very slow.
The firms that are having banner years have no excuse for this kind of piss poor compensation to top tier lawyers.

At my TTT firm is you billed 2,500 hours as a first year you'd get over a 30k bonus. Deb and NYC firms are TTT.

Weil Partners are doing very well. Associates are working very long hours on large bankruptcy and litigation matters to line the partners' pockets, and partner profits are up this year over last year. Associate morale, however, is very low because partners have been hinting at giving us half-bonuses. People billing 2500+ hours (like me) are going to be pissed if Weil adopts the half-Skadden scale after telling us for years that the firm's diversified practice allows it to weather every storm and keep profits up.

Let's all go work for plaintiffs' firms.

What are you going to do it, 34, besides whine anonymously on ATL?

Hey, MysTTTal, why don't you get off your fat ass and find out about the bonus situation at CWT.

Nice work, Elie. I caught some lulz from sacre-bleu and internets being on 24/7.

37 -

At CWT, your bonus is not getting fired.

On second thought, maybe it's better to get fired. CWT is awful.

34

prepare to be pissed...

fellow WGM associate

what does "in good standing" mean?

I will be pissed for sure if we get half-Skadden, which we will

- fellow Weil associate, about to bill at least 14 hours today

36, it may be that 34 cannot do anything about it NOW. But 34 may be in a position to do something about it at another time.

Also, are you honestly suggestion that firms don't care if you have pisses v. happy associates?

34

Even if Weil had a record setting PPP year, they would not give a penny more than the Cravath et al bonus. Why? Because they don't have to.

Associates are hired labor. The firms will pay what the market makes them pay. If the firms wanted to share the profits with you, they'd make you partner.

What are you going to do about it, 42, besides whine anonymously on a weblog?

I heard that before extending permanent offers, the hiring committee requires that each summer be able to correctly pronounce the name: DEH-BA-VWAH.

I just realized that those who have been saying that this is the end of big law are indeed correct. But, it won't be because there are no well paying big law jobs. Well, there will be fewer. But the immediate cause will be different.

the smart kids will take their toys (their brains) and go find something else they can do with it. This will trigger a crash in the pyramid scheme that these law firms have created. We are returning to the days for the small firms, the days of mega-big law firms are over. Of course, crashing the pyramid scheme will also bring PPP crashing down.

You heard it here first.

43, 36 has a less than nuanced understanding of law-firm economics actually work. Please don't force him to deal with any factors that might explode his simple little worldview.

43, 36 has a less than nuanced understanding of law-firm economics actually work. Please don't force him to deal with any factors that might explode his simple little worldview.

deb uh voyZ is not french - teh fuctards dont even pronounce is correctly

i still like my choice of debevoise.

47 - "those who have been saying that htis is the end of big law are indeed correct"

Then how exactly did we hear it here first?

Asshole.

I am absolutely sick of seeing the same bonus info every day. No one cares anymore. Get over it. Skadden pays twice market. Great for them. It's the outlier, the exception to the rule.

How about this: let us know if someone else matches Skadden. That would be news.

Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

Nice, 28.

S&C just announced they're doubling SkaTTTen!

Plimpton ain't easy...

Debevoise should give Elie an extra big bonus for leaving. Think of the money they're saving on snacks in the lounge!!!

Debevoise to 4M PPP (thanks Elie)!

The reason Skadden didn't cut the core bonus (they cut the special) is because so many partners (in NY, where the decisions are made) started as junior associates at the firm. They probably didn't even consider it once they cut last year's special bonus. Can't say same for CSM, which was a game-ender for the rest of the firms. But at least CravaTTTh paid the other 50% in 'prestiges'.

17 and 26, why do you think Skadden partners care? They don't. They don't look like fools or idiots for having bonuses actually reflect what went on at the firm this year, and they certainly don't care that some low level associate or a law student pontificates that they may be pissed. It is hilarious, however, that people keep posting that it makes Skadden look foolish for paying bonuses. What causes this nonsense? Sour grapes? A complete failure of logic? Both?

Regardless, nobody expected anything different from Debevoise.

59, all partners at CSM are home grown, so by your logic, they shouldn't have cut bonuses.

Thanks for yet again letting us know that a firm's bonus figures are "not really that surprising." You're right... so you can probably stop saying that now.

It's obvious bonuses are being paid on speculation of what is going to happen next year or because the lockstep system is broken, and not based on this year, because it makes no sense to give 20-30k bonuses to associates bringing in 1m or so to the firm for 2008, when they did the same or less the year before.

Once Cleary and DPW matched Cravath, Debevoise doing so was a done deal. I don't regret picking them for the summer.

36 here. Firms care whether you're pissy versus happy, but the size of your bonus isn't going to be dispositive in that regard, obviously. That's why I'm wondering what anyone is going to do about it.

9 - For all the well-deserved crap Elie gets for his, to put it charitably, grammatical missteps, I'm not going to let this slide.
"Methinks the lady doth protest too much" is both a misquote of Shakespeare, and a bastardization of the more nuanced meaning intended by the original statement.

I have no opinion on this post.

Ed Stimes

What does TTT mean?

these pretzels are making me 70th-y

68 - http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=ttt

To the top!? Thanks 70!

Lockstep is a broken system - you bill the same crazy hours you did the year before, still have no life, still gain more weight, wrinkles, and gray hair -- and your bonus is less than half it was the year before....

Jesus we are pu*****. Does any other industry "match" bonus structures? Get a grip. People are losing their jobs and we complain about 30K on top of the 250k+ we make. You are sad little people. All who complain = TTT

I agree w/ 37

MysTTTal, get off your fat ass and figure out what's going on bonus-wise at CWT!

Commenter 47 states that that biglaw is a "pyramid scheme." That seems to be an incorrect use of the phrase. Can someone explain?

Unrelatedly, is it true that V50 firms like CWT and Thacher Proffitt have provided their employees six months severance? What about the V20?

Anyone have bonus info for Philly firms like Blank Rome, Ballard Sparrr, or Echert Semen?

Two things that have not been pointed out enough or at all. The amount of money saved by reducing bonuses is not going into some "job security account" that will enable firms to weather the storm without indulging in layoffs; rather, the money will be distributed to partners. While that is completely within the partners' right and most likely deserved considering tough times call for higher level advice, it is not the most prudent business plan for a couple reasons (especially if your firm remains loyal to the lockstep structure during these tough times). First, you are essentially telling the associates who have stepped up, made the sacrifices and exceeeded expectations that their reward is no differnt from the slacker down the hall leaving at 6pm each day. Second, you are telling your hard working associates that rather than stray from the lockstep structure during challenging times, the firm thinks it best to stick to an outdated, ignorant business model created in the boom but then claim that the bonuses need to be halved since these are "special times"- if these are special times, move away from lockstep until the market requires lockstep again, I am sure those associates enjoying their weekends and afternoons would not complain too loudly during this market for not receiving an undeserved bonus.

As an associate at a top firm that has some extremely busy departments (i.e., not corporate) that are slimly staffed (while corporate is bloated), my biggest worry is losing the senior associates that help make my life more bearable. While parnters and lockstep beneficiaries often cite the challenging legal market as a barrier to senior associates departing for greener pastures, I think they have ignored one essential fact- the senior associates that are so busy right now are experienced in fields that are currently in extremely high demand- i.e., bankruptcy and restructuring, financial distress, etc. Does everyone seriously think these associates don't have options? I agree that the second year corporate associate that has been doing mindless due diligence for two years and is now doing doc review for litigation to prevent all day internet surfing, but who is probably the loudest complainer about low bonsues, has no options; however, an experienced attorney with restructuring experience can (and will) go pretty much anywhere they want right now. No matter how many relationships the partners have that result in big profile restructuring deals, the clients will start noticing if the senior associates that have taken care of their deals for the past few years start jumping ship. So, great move everyone, once again we have all been witnesses to how the least talented and least motivated individuals drive how the system is structured- we create things so everyone, including the lazy, can be rewarded.

asshats

when do non-NY firms and non-NY offices announce? Very curious about CA and DC (Munger, Irell, Cov, Wilmer, Gibson, Latham, etc.)

77 works for Seyfarth Shaw

Elie gets this posted within an hour of the memo going out and you nerds all immediately look for errors.

I can just see #5 cackling proudly behind his computer screen.

I like to see a message board of janitors at GM complaining about heir bonuses. Now there are real stories. GM officers make much more than partners at any BIG LAW firm.

I like to see a message board of janitors at GM complaining about heir bonuses. Now there are real stories. GM officers make much more than partners at any BIG LAW firm.

Seriously, who will have bigger bonuses this year? NYC or BigPhilly? What are the bonuses at Pepper, Wolf Block, Eckert and Margolis Edelstein?

There was no question in the past, but this year, it will be close. How crazy is that NY?

Go Eagles!

I agree with 81. Let us see your work product before you complain. I am sure it is typppppppyyyoooooo free?

81 - Guys at my high school cackled behind their computer screens after dumping on Elie all the time. It was no big deal.

FIRST. How wait..................

73, we obviously don't all make 250k and most of us won't.

When do these bonuses hit bank accounts, anyway? I'm an ignorant law student, forgive me. Are they at the end of the calendar year? Beginning of the next? Later?

73 here - If you work at BIG LAW and are a 2002 grad you do. And they are the one's complaining. If you do not I am not speaking towards you.

One top firm, which has yet to announce, paid mid-December last year . . .

This needs repeating. All you bonus Apologists are mindless drones.
------
To all you Half-Skadden Bonus Apologists: Shut the F up. You obviously do NOT work at a top 10 or so firm that will not, under any circumstances short of the Apocolypse, layoff associates. My job is entirely secure. I billed MORE than last year at a billing rate HIGHER than last year, as did a majority of my colleagues. My firm has announced publicly to its associates that it has matched or exceeded last year in total revenue. To be rewarded with the dripping, smelly, ass-rag of Cravath's puny, PPP-protecting bonus is an insult of the highest order.

Skadden was not stupid for announcing a full bonus. The firm is projecting strength and security at a time when its supposedly more prestigious peer firms are wilting under the strain of their financial missteps. Cravath is projecting weakness as are the firms that followed. Why are you Apologists standing up for a firm that is obviously hurting from its lack of diversification? You Apologists astound me with your blindness to reality.

86--your style is classic.

86--your style is classic.

86--your style is classic.

86--your style is classic.

guys at my high school use to have classic styles. it was no big deal.

hahaha. my TTT firm in memphis paid me a bigger bonus!!

53 - get a new site. the vast majority of people want every bonus announcement. if you don't like it, why are you clicking on the jump and posting comments? kill yourself.

92 - well said.

How many 2002 grads are there in biglaw? I'd wager most people complaining are juniors and midlevels.

so much depends
upon

a TTT's PPP
projections

william careless williams

More from Count Layoffula please....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9pfGCquhCM

NYC is for suckers

What about CA firms like Orrick and Mofo that announced bonuses last March? Presumably they can't go back on those promises now, given that associates specifically worked towards certain hour and performance milestones in expectation of those bonuses. Or can they?

FYI, Skadden is now distributing bonus memos to associates. Full bonuses will be paid, as announced. Just wanted to add that before some idiot starts saying Skadden is going to pull a Cravath.

92 has it right, of course. People who are saying things like, "be lucky you have a job" are really missing the point. People go to law school, work very hard, go $200,000 into debt, and then become apprentices at law firms. They expect going in that they will be well compensated and that they will enjoy a certain level of job security. That is the consideration for their effort.

When firms that are making $3 million per partner primarily on the backs of those associates decide to use the current and future economic outlook to slash compensation (yes this is a slash in compensation. Bonuses are an expected part of compensation) it should not be thought of as "lucky" or even "acceptable" simply because attorneys are not being laid off.

Now, it is true that these associates work at the will of the partners. I cannot refute that. And yes, there is also a "market" bonus set by industry leaders that then can be followed without shame. But in this case we had a firm, Skadden, that honestly and fairly compensated its employees, and another firm, Cravath, that on the basis of its outlook did not honestly and fairly compensate its employees for past efforts (read: bonus = past efforts). Cravath promises to its summers that they will always be top earners. That no longer is true, and Cravath's management are now liars.

Credibility means an awful lot in the law world. At least it used to, and it still should. These firms ought to be careful that they don't lose their credibility. More than that, they ought to be careful that they don't lose the morale and interest of their employees. With prospects for partnership dimmer than ever (especially in equity), and NY compensation WELL BELOW that of other cities (Even $120,000 plus bonus is more in Minneapolis or Atlanta than top salaries are in NY), it is a wonder anyone goes to work for these top firms at all. After this years clusterfuck, newly minted law graduates just might wise up to the big-law bullshit.

I'm not saying you should take your big Seattle/Atlanta/Minneapolis/other small-market firm job over an offer at Cravath or Simpson. I am saying that, depending on your career goals and your expectations for life in your 20s-30s, you damn well ought to start thinking about it.

60, partners always want more money for themselves. Skadden wanted to announce first, set the low number and thought others would follow their lead. Well, the rest of the firms thought differently and conserved their money.

As for looking like fools, sure, Skadden's ED must be relishing the 'goodwill' he's getting from law students reading ATL. That is until he gets pilloried at the next Mgt Commitee meeting. Ask your firm's ED (though I suspect you're a law student) if giving away more money than what the market thinks is good for his principals.

#106 - you are missing the point. Lots of lawyers hittin' the unemployment line this Christmas. These firms know they will not have to look far to fill their ranks if necessary. 21 years in this business and the sense of entitlement never ceases to amaze me. Pay scales rise and fall with the economy. Cold hard economics.

106 thinks he said something meaningful. 106 is full of sh*t.

First, newly minted law graduates do not become "apprentices" at law firms. Cf. the U.K. where such apprentices earn a pittance of a salary for a year or two. Rather, newly minted law graduates earn $160,000 in major markets with the additional prospect of a bonus.

Second, note that no one forces law students to go the biglaw route. Going this route means that you are paid a huge amount of money immediately and expected to work a huge amount in return. No one expects a "certain level of job security" unless you have gone straight from undergrad to law school without having worked a day in your life. A certain level of job security? Are you mad? Why? Is it an implicit subsidiary promise in the at-will employment agreement between an associate and the firm? Law is a business; it's not some archaic profession anymore where you have to wear funny hats. We sell legal services to corporations and individuals. Get your head out of some outdated notion of what a corporate law firm is and try again.

Holy Crap! There are internets? I've been on the Internet and am on it now, but I didn't know there were internets. What goes on internet 2 - 10? My guess is internet 2 is strictly for porn, while internet 3 is strictly for being gay.

I just found this site (I am a 3L) and all I can say is that it is really, really funny to me to watch all of you wage earners worry about how large your paychecks will be this year.

Are you too scared or just too poor to be a capitalist?

106, aka Captain 1L, why don't you take a look at what UK-trained lawyers earn:

http://www.rollonfriday.com/2.htm
Salary, new trainee £38000 (=$57k)
Salary, newly qualified £65000 (=$95k)
Salary, 1 PQE £71500 (=$105k)

Of course with no five figure bonuses. And guess what, cost of living is even higher in London than in NYC.

So shut your whining. If the COL-adjusted compensation is so much better outside NYC biglaw, then leave. Supply and demand at work. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Actually, make that no bonuses at all for UK lawyers until one's third year, or 2 PQE (post qualification experience).

~112

I suppose NY may have more Presteeege, but when I drive down Broad and Chestnut to my cush office near Liberty Place, its clear I make way more money than anyone in NY Biglaw. No firm, not even Cravath, can match my quality of life and my huge Condo near Rittenhouse Square.

Right on 106.

Why would anyone take out six figure debt if they're going to owe tons of money for the next 30 years??

Cravath, Simson Thacher, Milbank and the rest of the big boys don't look much bigger than its Philly counterparts - Pepper, Blank Rome and Ballard Sphar. How much does one "pay extra" just to work in NYC? You can have you're broadway. We got the Eagles and Flyers.

Do, not know how law firms work, I wonder: if firms save money by paying associates less this year, do they stash that money away in a rainy day fund? or does each partner get an extra boat for 2008?

117, firms do not distribute all of their profits to their partners. This retained cash is the capital account of each partner, which is also why new partners must contribute cash in the equity buy in.

"Are you too scared or just too poor to be a capitalist?"

No, 111 3L piece of crap, I'm not scared or poor. I HAVE actually worked at a major law firm for a few years, unlike you.

Get a job and a mortgage and a family, then see how funny it is to get 20K less a year than you were expecting.

Ha. Ha.

112, why don't you go research how much it costs (in time and money) to become a lawyer in the UK versus in the US. Then you can write a memo for me on why your point is now moot.

Hey Hamilton - have a holly, jolly Christmas.

quick back of the envelop calc: Debevoise saved about $8.9M by not matching Skadden.

Nice chunk of change, no? About the salary of 4 partners (or 55 first years, excluding bonus)

112 - are you retarded or just intellectually lazy? Folks in the UK go straight to law school from high school. They do not go 200,000 dollars in debt. Take away our debt, allow us to get cracking at 22, no one would be bitching about bonuses.

118 - new partners must make a cash contribution? Why don't they just start with 0% share as a non-equity partner?

How much do typical new biglaw partners contribute? Do they typically pay in cash or take out a business loan for such payment?

Here you go, players. All of these firms will report PPP that is either the same as last year or increases.

You heard it here first.

-- DP associate.

having to pay to play is just one of the many ways the interests of associates who become partners are realigned away from associates. That is, the new partner's interests are aligned with the older partners by requiring the new partners to go into debt. See, it's rather simple. A new partner with debt is like an associate with huge college loans. He/she has no where to go. More importantly, he/she will vote to keep more $$ at the partner level.

125. Almost certainly. And I'll add that the 2009 PPP will almost likely be even higher.

107,

I think you have a misunderstanding about what it means to have a sense of entitlement. If I didn't work hard, or do anything useful, and generally was a lazy sack of shit, and then I felt entitled to large salaries and a comfortable lifestyle, that would be a "sense of entitlement."

If, on the other hand, I work 60-70 hours per week on a regular basis, and I do somewhat important work, and I am always ready to do more if it is requested, and if I have taken on hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for the opportunity to do this work, then I could hardly be said to have a "sense of entitlement" when I want to be well compensated for the work.

As to 109, I think you have a very poor understanding of about the markets of legal practice. You also don't quite understand that associates, just like partners, can attempt to protect their interests and seek higher compensation. You also don't understand that partners need high-talent associates to make their high salaries. Also, job security has historically and structurally been fundamental to professional practice. it is in the interests of both partners and associates to have it and maintain a certain degree of it. So, why don't you go read a book and figure something out for yourself, instead of being told by everyone else your whole life what you are worth and believing it. You might just wake up and decide to think for yourself.

106: Fantastic post. The bitches cutting you down are obviously jealous partners.

And on the UK, who the fck cares about what's going on with UK law? Seriously.

111: You are a tremendous twat and tool at the same time.

Memo to associates:

Partners are taking profits this year to underwrite the crap year that will be 2009. If you make it to partner some day you will understand.

119, please try living within your means so that you're not too disappointed the next time you don't get money you were expecting but never entitled to.

Median household income in New York City is $80,000. Your student loan payments are at most $20k, so you should be able to live on $100k total. Woe is me for not being able to survive on double that!

I have a few points to make:

1. Coffee's for closers only. Do you think I'm fucking with you? I am not fucking with you.

2. You call yourself an attorney, you son of a bitch.

3. The good new is -- you're fire. The bad news is you've got, all you got, just one week to regain your jobs, starting tonight. Have I got your attention now?

4. FIrst prize is a Cadillac Eldorado. Anyone want to see second prize? Second prize's a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired. You get the picture? You laughing now?

5. "The deals are weak." Fucking deals are weak? You're weak.

6. FUCK YOU, that's my name!! You know why, Mister? 'Cause you drove a Hyundai to get here tonight, I drove a $80,000 BMW. That's my name!

7. A-B-B. A-always, B-be, B-billing. Always be billing! Always be billing!

8. You see this watch? You see this watch? That watch cost more than your car. I made $970,000 last year. How much you make? You see, pal, that's who I am. And you're nothing. Nice buy? I don't give a shit. Good father? Fuck you -- go home and play with your kids!! You wanna work here? Bill!!

9. You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you cocksucker? You can't take this -- how can you take the abuse you get on a deal? You don't like it -- leave it.

- Biglaw partner

New York to Detroit 1997!!! Oh well, at least you get to live in a 120 yr old efficiency on a street that reeks of urine and rotting produce. Oh yeah, I forgot about all that culture - you know, photographers taking pics of themselves shoving bullwhips up their asses - enjoy it NY; your city just died. Shove that bullwhip real deep; it might make you forget about that soul destroying ant hill you live in - for a while.

"The deals are weak." Fucking deals are weak?"

NO, your butchering of a classic film is weak (and unnecessary)

bunch of f'en nonsense to treat people like that

132 - well done. Love the GGR

132 - well done. "I used to be a Big Law associate. It's a tough racket."

61 - You're mostly right, but not all of them came up through the farm system.

107, you really have no idea what you are talking about. Have you talked to anyone making the decisions at Skadden? No, you haven't. I, on the other hand, have a lot more information and insight into whether Skadden partners give a shit about bonus compensation being higher than Cravath's. They don't. They don't care to follow Cravath when it comes to bonus comp, they set their own rules. In years past, it has been more than the pack, and in other years, less.

Obviously, I'm not a law student. I'm a little closer to retirement than that.

60

This is a case of coordinated profit hoarding by truly fucking greedy biglaw partners. And it shall neither be forgiven nor forgotten. Fact: 2009 will be a worse year for biglaw partners because their profits will go down and their taxes will go up. Fact: biglaw partners are feeling poor because their stock portfolios are in the shitter. So what are they doing? They're taking one last big disproportionately large payout before they get smacked. How are they doing this? By canceling holiday parties, cutting staff, and now FUCKING US OVER BY NOT SHARING A relatively insignificant PIECE OF (what is admittedly) THEIR PIE WITH US--the very associates who bust our asses day in and day out to make that pie so large in the first place--the very associates who never hesitate to stay ‘till two in the fucking morning on a some random fucking Tuesday because one of their piece of shit clients needs documents at 9am that they won’t look at until 2pm and won’t comment on until Friday afternoon, or cancel a vacation, or come in for fifteen fucking weekends in a row. They couldn't care less that their associates will also get hit with higher taxes next year and that associate stock portfolios and apartment values are also shot. They just don’t give a fuck.

Everyone who’s noted how much biglaw associates make relative to others (those working at other types of firms, in other industries, in other jurisdictions, median household income in NYC, etc.) is MISSING THE POINT. That’s a diversionary tactic used by partners to distract the public from the matter at hand. It’s easy to point the finger at “entitled, greedy associates.” But the argument is not that we don’t make enough relative to other professionals or lawyers at other types of firms. We make a good amount of money. And we will have made a good amount of money even after getting fucked over on bonuses this year. The argument is that PARTNERS ARE TELLING US THAT WE HAVE TO CUT BACK on bonuses, holiday parties and expenditures because of these tough times WHILE THEY WILL BE TAKING HOME EVEN MORE THAN THEY MADE LAST YEAR—THIS MEANS YOU, YOU DISPICABLE, PIECE OF SHIT DEBEVOISE PARTNERS.

We could completely accept the argument that because profits are down, all firm expenditures, including associate bonuses, should be cut as. Everyone recognizes that this is a business and no one is expecting altruism. But we should not have to swallow this argument: the firm’s profits have gone up, but because we expect the firm’s profits to go down in the near future, we have decided to fire our lowly staff, substantially cut our associates’ pay, cancel our holiday party…and pay ourselves all the money that we saved by taking these measures. Oh, and by the way, we almost forgot to tell you to go fuck yourself, you entitled little shits. When we started out, we made 40k a year and we were fucking thrilled that we had jobs, and we didn’t get 4 weeks vacation or any of this maternity/paternity leave bullshit, and when someone screamed at us, we didn’t go running home to mommy…or the vault or abovethelaw—we just sacked up and took it like men…. YEAH, but you know what motherfuckers, the partners you worked for made much, much less in inflation-adjusted terms than you do right now. There’s just more money in the industry. You can’t blame us for that. The cold, hard truth is that we may not truly “deserve” (whatever the fuck that means) 160k just starting out, but you sure as hell don’t “deserve” THREE MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR for servicing a book of inherited clients while billing a leisurely 1600—notwithstanding the fact that you read the book on securities law and wrote the book on ass kissing.

As others have pointed out, it’s a completely different story they were going to stash the money away for a rainy day, but they are not. They are just taking more for themselves. It’d be like if some Wall St. CEO said something like this: we had a profitable year this year, even a bit more profitable than last, but we’re going to have a bad one next year, so I’ve decided to cancel the holiday party, fire the secretaries, and shut you on your bonuses. . . and with all the money I save I’m going to pay myself and all the other top executives even more than we made last year. If the partners were really concerned about what their clients are thinking, why not try foregoing your own pay just like their most prominent clients as opposed to simply screwing their employees and keeping all the extra cash for themselves.

I think 139 summed it quite nicely

but I'd be afraid to be 139's boss

too long. didn't read.

Something for all you whiny associates to consider: at all V20 firms, profits per partner will decline this year by a greater percentage, than will any associate's compensation

133 lives in some piece-of-crap backwater burg with huge NYC envy.

143 -- that may be true (I have no idea). 2007 was a record year for almost all V20 firms. But will the PPP be lower than 2006 or 2005, when firms were paying bonuses on the $35,000 scale (i.e. the 2007 scale without the "special bonus")? Just because PPP is down year on year in 2008 (if that is the case) doesn't necessarily imply that the old bonus structure is economically untenable for the partners. I think really the partners are bracing for a TERRIBLE first half of 2009 and so sharing their 2008 rewards seems less appealing.

Damn. I miss wall street. They were annoying pricks, but at least they caused partners to pretend to reward hard work with decent bonuses.

In light of this, associates need to think really hard in 2009 about Cravath's suggestion that there will be no bonuses paid next year. This was probably a test -- to see if they would be left on an island with their half-bonuses -- and now that they realize everyone wants to join the "fuck you associates party" why wouldn't they just eliminate them altogether next year?

Here's to billing a fair amount -- but only a fool will subject themselves to 2500+ hour slavery from this point forward.

143, Debevoise has had a record year. There is no way that their PPP is decreasing.

Good firms reward the superstars, in good times and lean times. Even if you are getting less than in boom times, if you're really adding value, you are doing fine and getting more than these published bonuses. Whether or not, you are at a firm that's supposedly 'lockstep'. If you're whining, you're really not so great.

Further, anyone who expected bonuses to remain identical with the economy in the shitter and people getting laid off left and right in other fields has no sense of reality. A lot of this is also client-driven too.

The last comment is utter bullshit. Any lockstep firm that paid "superstars" more would immediately turn into a f*cking snakepit and it would be well-known in the market that someone got more than the rest.

And give me a break, no one can tell who's a superstar until the 4th or 5th year, and at that point they don't need more money because partnership chances are now dangling in front of them.

If I am wrong please name a firm that does pay certain class members more, while proclaiming to the world and their other associates that they are lockstep.

Hey, Weil associates.
What kind of actual tasks does a second year (fresh from a clerkship) get in the bankrtupcy dept? Are you buried fifteen layers below Marcia Goldstein and treated like a paralegal, or is the work fairly interesting?

Hey, Weil associates.
What kind of actual tasks does a second year (fresh from a clerkship) get in the bankrtupcy dept? Are you buried fifteen layers below Marcia Goldstein and treated like a paralegal, or is the work fairly interesting?

I also didn't read 139's entire post. Apparently, he/she doesn't have a job, or won't for long.

I got the gist, however, and it is simply wrong-headed. Either firms are hurting for cash or they are hoarding it. Either way, lower bonuses are the right call. Everyone is having trouble borrowing money, and I'd rather my firm exercise foresight, keep some cash on hand and weather this storm responsibly.

And yes, thank you, I understand how partnerships work. Tax distributions to partners will do the trick.

hey 139, if it sucks so bad, just leave and get another job....oh that's right, there are no other jobs. so shut up and do your work and collect your still grossly inflated salary. the partners take all the risk in the business and you have job security unlike anyone else in the private sector. go whine to your friends who used to work at Citi.

Forget about lockstep firms. Who'd want to work in such a place anyway? But 149 is right at least that top associates will be taken care of. Wrong about it in lockstep firms.

But it is true in firms where the bonus structure is based on hours and performance. And it is absolutely apparent who is a good associate well before the 5th year. Maybe we can't yet tell who shines as a 'superstar.' But it's pretty apparent who is good and who isn't after the first year is out of the way.

maybe its time to start taking matters into your own hands. think about it.

This post brought another smile to my face this bonus season. I just got my personal letter from Skadden saying my full bonus would be deposited on the 12th. Morale in this Skadden office is almost as high as last year at this time, which, considering the market conditions, is remarkeable. Nice job Skadden, I picked right.

Wow, somebody takes themselves very seriously. I know this sounds crazy, but maybe they sent the memo at 6:54 because that's when it got finished, and not because Debevoise lives in fear of being labeled "half-skadden" (tee-hee!) by some interweb dork.

152: How are cash distros to partners akin to keeping cash on hand and weathering the storm responsibly? Explain that to me. Do you ever see partners coughing up a cash infusion out of their own pockets when a firm is in dire straights, e.g., can't pay associates (Heller) or is about to blow up (Brobeck)? Of course not. Partners taking more cash this year is the equivalent of Citi doubling its dividend.

153: see 139's response about missing the point re "grossly inflated" salaries. If you accept the argument, both associates and partners have inflated salaries. The bonus decision doesn't bring salaries down it just shifts money from the associates to the partners. Partners take all the risk? What does that mean? All of the interested parties are at risk if the firm fails--the partners and the employees. Job security? I think this last few months refutes that argument. No one is saying associates should make anything near what the partners make. They own and run the firm. The point is that both should profit or lose is tandem. It's messed up that Debevoise is saying we had a great year, so we've decided to give ourselves more and to give you less. And there are other biglaw jobs. Perhaps not for what you do.... But there are plenty of other jobs for someone like a fifth year lit associate from Debovoise who billed 2500 last year.

153, how do they take "all the risk"--these are limited partnerships. maybe this would be true if they were general partnerships, but they're not. the partners have limited liability and take the same risk you take by owning shares in a company.

Elie, you continue to suck. You should have realized by now that the joke is on you. Sure, it was funny to call the first few firms "Half Skadden," but now you're just showing you are an idiot for not realizing the market has moved. Quit being obtuse and stop trying so hard to be Lat. Back to basics (i.e., quit editorializing - you're not funny).

106 - your post is so hilarious, at so many levels, that it makes me wonder if you’re just trolling for responses.

The excellent lines in your post include, but are not limited to:

“Bonuses are an expected part of compensation.” That statement is so stupid it boggles the mind.

“...we had a firm, Skadden, that honestly and fairly compensated its employees...” How is $160K plus a ridiculous bonus “honest” and “fair” compensation for some knucklehead one year out of law school?

“These firms ought to be careful that they don't lose their credibility.” Come on. Your post reflects an attitude that Biglaw is somehow exempt from the current recession and the coming Great Depression 2.0. Big firms have so much overhead and pay their associates such bloated salaries that it’s not at all surprising that the moment the economy slows down, even the “elite” firms have to start cutting back.

Anyway, I’m guessing you’re a law student (probably first year) at a “T14.” Good luck with your exams. Let us know how your astounding sense of entitlement works out for you.

Times are tough. People should be grateful for what they have. The bitching and moaning on this site over thousands of dollars worth of bonus compensation is just shameful. Don't you folks understand how many families are struggling right now? Don't you see the news of thousands of lay-offs every day?

I pity those of you who seem so willing to look a gift horse in the mouth.

128 - boo hoo - you worked a lot of hours and paid a lot of money to go to law school? So what? In THIS PISS POOR ECONOMY, you'd better do your work and bill high numbers of hours even without a high bonus because if you don't, I will fire your ass and you won't find another biglaw job anywhere! That's right - you don't have a fucking choice, except to leave the profession voluntarily. Do you think I give a shit if you paid a lot of money to go to law school? Your bonuses comes out of my pocket - I will do everything possible to minimize that loss to me. IF you decide to quit, there will be 20 other eager associates waiting to take your place. It's good to be a partner.

Partners, like secretaries, should find their own site to read. It's annoying when you screw us & it's even more annoying when you come on here and explain why we should be grateful you screwed us. Go away.

104, Orrick said a few months ago that it would not change its previously announced bonuses. Not sure about MoFo, but it would be pretty lame of them to go back on what they already promised. That would surely stir up some serious discontent.

I guess Greedy Associates end up becoming Greedy Partners...kind of ironic isn't it?

158, learn the difference between "tax distributions" (i.e., partners get no cash but get the tax burden) and "cash distributions."

Also, firms make capital calls all the time. It's only when the partners realize that the last capital call would be futile that you hear about it in the context of Brobeck and Heller. That's why law firms liquidating is such a rare and unusual event.

164 -- Stop being such a whiner. If you can't suffer the slings and arrows from others then you might want to find another gig.

When will Quinn Emmanuel announce???

18 - Shearman announced last Friday, same as everyone else. No hours requirements, completely lock-step.

159, partners take risk because it is their money invested in the firm. Kinda like how a shareholder who invested in a company has taken more risk than someone who did not invest, get it?

The fact that the firm is an LLP is completely irrelevant. Partners could still lose their capital account inside the firm. That you think of 'risk' only as tort litigation risk suggests that you are a law student who just finished 1L first semester.

29 said it perfectly

168 = partner troll with no rain coming in & nothing better to do

150 guy - those people are actually working right now and not reading this shitty blog.

174-
Actually, one of them posted about about how he would be billing 2500 this year. So apparently they are reading this blog. Thanks for your pointless response, though, dickhead.
150

27,
If you work at a NYC law firm that counts pro bono, recruiting, etc. toward an hours requirement and you can't come up with 2000 hours (or less, in some cases!), you don't deserve a bonus, period. I'm not saying it means you're lazy or a bad lawyer, and I understand the work just hasn't been there for a lot of corporate associates. However, you simply haven't had to make the kinds of personal sacrifices in '08 to warrant extra compensation. Or, at least, you've made such sacrifices in a very inefficient manner.

I do agree, though, that it's bullshit for firms with minimum requirements to hide behind CSM's skirt when their internal bonus metrics are far different. It's a much more blatant cheapout than what lockstep firms are doing, but unfortunately most casual observers don't notice the nuance.

Elie is a fat jerk who needs to step off his high horse. "Did they think no one would notice".? WTF..... the world does not revolve around ATL or Elie Mystal. Please. DP sent out a bonus memo when they sent it out. I'm sure the ATL ramifications it would have wasn't the motivation. My God, this blog has degraded

176, exactly right about non-lockstep firms. A firm that has hours/performance requirements for bonuses will automatically save money if associates underperform due to the bad economy. If they try to cheap out on top of that by underpaying associates who perform well despite the bad economy, it's lame, lame, lame.

We need a separate post about non-lockstep firms, what they promised at the beginning of the year, and whether they have now committed to keeping those promises.

oh and p.s. idiots.-- Cravath isn't doing poorly by ANY means. Litigation and M&A are busy as hell, and even some banking groups are stacked with work. CSM's bonus decision was to save money and reflect the economic downturn, and has nothing to do with the health of the firm.
Why didn't they put out one of those "we're awesome" memo's like Weil and other firms? Because they don't have anything to prove, unlike the other firms.

149 is the reason i'm glad i'm not at a lockstep firm.

99 -- Kill yourself? Go back to XOXO, you idiot.

If your life is defined by what firms other than yours pay as bonuses, then maybe you should take your own advice.

"CSM's bonus decision was to save money and reflect the economic downturn, and has nothing to do with the health of the firm."

179: has CSM communicated to associates that the savings will be retained within the firm in the form of a greater operating reserve that will be used to smooth over any rough spots in 2009? Or are you saying that increasing PPP is optically better than paying 2006 level associate bonuses?

I sincerely hope that partners don't waste their time posting stupid comments like 163.

169, probably sometime next week. Big meeting is usually scheduled for weekend of the holiday party (which is this weekend).

182, Cravath is a private partnership and does not have to tell the associates anything. But given the credit market and how hard it is to borrow money, do you think they're so stupid as to leave no cash in the firm and count on bank loans whenever rent and payroll exceed revenue?

182, no they haven't, but they don't have to communicate anything. All my post was really about was that the firm is doing very well, despite what others think. Whatever you want to say about the firm partners' morality, personality, kindness, whatever, is fair game, but the firm isn't going away anytime soon.

im so tired of watching you spoiled brats whine about "only" a 17,500 bonus. the legal profession is going to be changing a lot in the next decade, and those massive bonus numbers will be among the changes.

get it through your heads: no matter where you graduated from, YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO A $20,000 GIFT AT CHRISTMAS.

salaries have inflated in their own bubble and they'll be stagnating or dropping soon. despite what you may think, you are not essential, you are not special, and you are not ENTITLED to be rich.

I'm beginning to think that an alternate universe has developed. I'm in-house. My friends still at law firms describe things as slow or dead. Law firms are routinely forcing out associates either in overt layoffs or in stepped up "performance reviews". In the last month, I've met with partners from three top firms that have already announced bonuses at market level. Those partners were all trying to get any business they could from me, including some of the more paper-intensive and menial work that they had turned down in the past. All of them said their shops had tons of slack and providing service would be no problem.

Yet folks from those same firms come on ATL complaining about reduced bonuses and say that those firms are going great guns and associates are working around the clock and billing 2500 hours. Should I believe ATL posters over my own lying eyes?

Kudos to Skadden associates for getting twice the bonus this year, and to Skadden the firm for being generous- BUT LET'S BE REAL
If you think for ONE second that Skadden would have offered the same bonuses had Cravath announced first, you are FOOLING yourself. They would have half-Skadden-ed themselves too. If you honestly believe that isn't the case, you really are an idiot. So yeah, Skadden's awesome for paying great bonuses this year, but don't put them too high on the pedestal

you can all suck my cock

190 nailed it

I'll accept these cravath is prudent args as soon as someone ponies up some proof that they are banking the diif. But if, as I suspect, the decision was simply to keep the p'ship distributions fairly consistent given the weaker environment, then no, sorry, cravath is not prudent, it is simply cutting costs to maintain margins.

And, why would cravath need to be prudent? They are making plenty of cash right now, even with the downturn, and I bet their PPP will be comparable to previous years.

I work at a small firm in a major city. I bill around 2350/year, and I probably make half of what all of the whiners at Cravath and the like make. I will get a bonus this year, but it will be under $10,000.

Having gone to a T1 law school, I had big firm interviews, but, regardless of my small salary, I am glad I chose my boutique firm.

I am not worried about being laid off...business is booming.

Frankly, I think anyone who complains that he is only going to get $17,500 in bonus money this year needs to shut it. You are not owed a bonus, and none of us is owed a job. Be glad you are employed. Be happy that you make a very large base salary. Do a good job, and, when the economy gets better, you will be rewarded.

Having had the small firm experience, I really do believe that experience and professionalism are their own rewards. I might not make as much money as big firm people do, but I am certainly not so out of touch with reality that I will start complaining about a bonus is a down economy. I am happy for what I have, and you should be too.

As a retired senior partner at big firm I would like to offer a bit of advice to all you young folks. If you are scared you should be. The legal profession in the next couple years is going to experience a very modest adjustment, layoffs and mergers will unfortunately become the majority headline - survival will mean everything for these firms. Take humility in this and understand now is a tremendous time to learn, grow and when better times come, lead! Most of all be happy you are employed right now and if possible have about 6 months saved up to weather the storm. My best of luck to everyone.

194, you mean we shouldn' t expect to learn and grow in normal times? There's honesty.

eToys should have a market cap that exceeds Toys r Us - why is the stock going down? A 3 bd 2 bth condo should cost $750,000, why won't my place sell? And, I am actually worth $200k right out of law school, why are the partners stiffing me so? I am certain the run up in salaries was based on the actual increase in quality of the output of the lawyer mills.

194,

Folks you should be scared of a "very modest adjustment" in the legal profession? Do you know what "modest" means? Is there such a thing as a "retired junior partner?" By "retired senior partner" did you mean to write "recent high school graduate with moderate command of the English language?"

For 158's benefit, more slowly this time.

Imagine a law firm with lots of associates. The firm pays them a lot of money in salary. In normal years, the firm makes payroll by collecting fees for legal services. In a pinch, they might draw on a revolver (i.e., a line of credit, like a credit card).

Now imagine that law firm sitting on a pile of cash at year end (because 2008 was a pretty good year), but looking into the worst economy in decades. The firm could pay huge bonuses to associates. But what if collections in the coming year don't support payroll (and other expenses)? And what if the firm cannot borrow enough to cover payroll (e.g. because credit markets are frozen)? Associates would be laid off.

Possible solution: don't pay the huge bonus now. Hold the cash to make payroll over the course of the year in case business deteriorates. The firm won't have to lay off associates and will be well positioned (with an adequate associate mix) when business improves.

"But wait" a law student poster will type, "Partners will still be taxed on that retained cash." Yes, they will. This is why the firm might make a "tax distribution" to partners. That is, a distribution sufficient for partners to pay tax on the cash retained by the firm, but not distributed to them.

All copasetic on the diff btw cash distro and tax distro now, bro?

194, thanks.

Just like the Obama administration -- associates now want distributions to be set according to the maxim from each according to their ability and to each according to their needs.

187, you realize what taxes are in NYC for lawyers in the upper bracket, right? A-hole. $17,500 after taxes is jack sh*t when you realize what COL is. We view bonuses as part of our annual compensation. It's not like there's been a year where nobody gets a bonus. It's part of the job, unless you are a total slacker-ass who deserves to be fired because you can't bill any hours because nobody wants to work with you because you are a waste of an office.

Deb associates broke their backs this year on the Siemens case and covering for those who were on Siemens. Even though there was a slowdown in the 4th quarter, profits before then were "record-breaking" -- i.e. MORE than the 25% boost Deb had last year. Last year PEP went from $1.81 million to a new high of $2.29 million. Partners are going to be bringing home this much or more this year. Understandably, next year's bonus will decrease with the recession, but not sharing more equitably with associates now during the flush year when we flew around the globe at a moment's notice, didn't see our families for weeks, and worked all nighters in corners of the globe, is a huge slap in the face. Associate morale is not only low but completely destroyed. As opposed to others working at big law a lot of us are at Deb to pay off our loans at a place with great work and a respectable workplace. We have public interests and options even in a recession. The emperor has no clothes, and the Deb partners -- as opposed to how they like to think of themselves -- now are as naked as the rest of the selfish biglaw partners out there. Many are accelerating their plans to leave because of this.

Deb associates broke their backs this year on the Siemens case and covering for those who were on Siemens. Even though there was a slowdown in the 4th quarter, profits before then were "record-breaking" -- i.e. MORE than the 25% boost Deb had last year. Last year PEP went from $1.81 million to a new high of $2.29 million. Partners are going to be bringing home this much or more this year, as profits can't be saved for next year's rainy day. Understandably, next year's bonus will decrease with the recession, but not sharing more equitably with associates now during the flush year when we flew around the globe at a moment's notice, didn't see our families for weeks, and worked all nighters in corners of the globe, is a huge slap in the face. Associate morale is not only low but completely destroyed. As opposed to others working at big law a lot of us are at Deb to pay off our loans at a place with great work and a respectable workplace. We have public interests and options even in a recession. The emperor has no clothes, and the Deb partners -- as opposed to how they like to think of themselves -- now are as naked as the rest of the selfish biglaw partners out there. Many are accelerating their plans to leave because of this.

Thanks 202 -you took the words right out of my mouth.

204 - It's just a shame we that this is the only place we have to vent. I hope that partners read this godforsaken site. If Deb associates have an idea about how to express our frustrations to partners please share.

176 - Completely, 100% agree with you. Hours just weren't there for a lot of us this year. I was billing 200-275 for Jan-April and then things died. Even with all the scraping of pro bono and firm chargeable I couldn't get passed 1700 which won't cut it for bonus at my firm. I did get to go home earlier, see my wife, not work on the weekends as much and am lucky to still be employed. I.e. I did not make the sacrifices that warranted the bonus as you mention. If the work was there I definitely would have done it though (last two years I billed 2250 and 2275 respectively). It does sting a bit that through no fault of my own I am not getting a bonus whereas someone at a lockstep firm is. (I know someone will invaribly comment that I should have gone to a "non-locksTTTep firm" but I'm just saying).

201 - again, you and people like you need to get over yourselves. be glad you have a job and that it pays you well. life could be a helluva lot worse, and it is, for lots of people.

congratulations on being in the upper bracket. i guess everyone DESERVES to make so much money that 17,500 is "jack sht". you just got there. if youre so pissed, quit. know what? there are tons of recent grads with GPAs .02 lower than yours or whatever that will happily do your job for youre getting paid. you can trade with them--how about that?

They don't deserve his job. GPAs 0.02 lower are crap.

Just dug up the first draft of the memo.

---------------

DEBEVOISE & PLIMPTON -- MEMORANDUM -- 2008 ASSOCIATE BONUSES

Eat a dick!

Rick Evans
For All Partners

128 -- People with a sense of "entitlement" believe they should get what they want, regardless of the impact on others. It's a "me first" attitude. Others' needs don't compute. Such people tend to view themselves as exempt from rules, norms and standards, and usually have an inflated sense of self and their own accomplishments and contributions.

You work at Debevoise, correct?

@202-- "Many [Deb partners] are accelerating their plans to leave because of this." Please. Are you that naive?

This is an outrage! All you whining, never-held-a-job before bitches should just up and quit! Do it now. I'm sure Mickey D's could use a few highly educated burger flippers.

212- Chill out, fellow Debbers. The senior associates are giving mustache rides tomorrow.
*keep it hush hush*

213 just opened a big can of worms.