Debevoise’s Santa: Siemens? (Alas, the case is winding down.)
On the Debevoise & Plimpton bonus post, one irate associate wrote:
Debevoise associates broke their backs this year on the Siemens case and covering for those who were on Siemens. Even though there was a slowdown in the 4th quarter, profits before then were “record-breaking” — i.e. MORE than the 25% boost Deb had last year. Last year PEP went from $1.81 million to a new high of $2.29 million. Partners are going to be bringing home this much or more this year. Understandably, next year’s bonus will decrease with the recession, but not sharing more equitably with associates now during the flush year when we flew around the globe at a moment’s notice, didn’t see our families for weeks, and worked all nighters in corners of the globe, is a huge slap in the face.
We wonder how this Debevoise drone felt after reading the long article on the Siemens bribery case published over the weekend in the New York Times (based on a joint report by ProPublica, the nonprofit investigative journalism organization; “Frontline,” the PBS program; and the NYT):
Officials in the United States began investigating the [Siemens] case shortly after the raids became public. Knowing that it faced steep fines unless it cooperated, Siemens hired an American law firm, Debevoise & Plimpton, to conduct an internal investigation and to work with federal investigators.As German and American investigators worked together to develop leads, Debevoise and its partners dedicated more than 300 lawyers, forensic analysts and staff members to untangle thousands of payments across the globe, according to the court records. American investigators and the Debevoise lawyers conducted more than 1,700 interviews in 34 countries. They collected more than 100 million documents, creating special facilities in China and Germany to house records from that single investigation. Debevoise and an outside auditor racked up 1.5 million billable hours, according to court documents. Siemens has said that the internal inquiry and related restructurings have cost it more than $1 billion.
Readers, let’s treat this like a management consulting case study. How much will Debevoise’s profits per partner in 2008 be boosted by those 1.5 million billable hours and $1 billion in spending by Siemens? Your conjecture is welcome in the comments.
At Siemens, Bribery Was Just a Line Item [New York Times]
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way to stay classy D&P partners.
Twelfth!!!!!
92nd
#1
Here is a hint, I may like you, but not more than my family, my house, my vacations and my own career. If I have to choose between them and you, it is a very easy decision, you are not really a concern of mine.
4, are you a D&P partner?
#4,
Like #1 said, classy all the way ...
After all is said and done, the AList Debevoise firm is no different then Cadwalader. I guess all associates are fungible.
#4 - so can we stop with the BS about venerable traditions and occupying a special place in society, etc. and just get on with being a business already and admitting so publicly?
8 -- if you had any illusions that this was anything but a business, you were a blind idiot.
Good to hear that you are no longer blind.
I still don't understand why liberals love their child porn so much.
7: what does "fungible" mean?
Street Law 101--Get your money up front.
Word to the wise . . . if I pay you pretty good now, but make you think that I'll take care of you even more AFTER you take my calls and e-mails 24/7, fly around the world at my command, work all night and put my short term interests before you and your family's, what does that make you? If I'm being nice, I'd call you a sucker. If I'm being honest, you're just another whore.
If there is one positive thing to come out of this economic turbulence, it is the realization among law school d-bags that higher prestige and vault rankings do not necessarily translate into a better situation for junior associates.
CWT NY 05 female associates > Debevoise
Like so many Captain Renaults, you idiots act shocked when law firms don't treat their associates well.
1) Law firms exist to make money FOR THE PARTNERS. They do not exist to make associates rich or happy. Paying associates is an unfortunate cost of doing business, nothing more.
2) Law firm partners are arseholes, almost to a man. It is a self-selection process: in order to make partner you have to be willing to give up any semblance of a real social life in order to bill hours, you must be willing to give up any semblance of a conscience in order to bend laws and defend your clients, and you must be willing to give up all free-thinking in order to be nothing more than a mouthpiece for your client. People willing to do all three are arseholes.
3) The only reward partners get for selling their souls is money. Unlike a real estate developer who can appreciate both his profits, and the beautiful skyline he helped build, lawyers dont create anything. There is no joy in a job well-done when the job is simply to help clients shuffle money. But parters are paid well, and that helps them forget how otherwise-worthless their lives are. You associates, however, take money away from them, and they WILL take it back whenever they can. It helps quiet the little cries of anguish they hear in their heads at night.
4) Associates are snivelling little shits, almost to a man. If you had an ounce of ambition, you'd run for office, start a business, or write a book. If you had any philosophical love for the law, you'd get on the faculty at some law school and publish articles about Tort theory. If you wanted to make enough money to support a beloved hobby or family, you'd get an in-house position and be home at 5:00 every day. But you don't. You snivelling little shits will sell everything you love and believe in for an extra $20,000 a year, and not one of you has the balls to break away from the firm's teat and start your own shop.
The partners own you all, and they will damn well pay whatever THEY think is fair. They'll get away with it, too, because if any of you had the balls to do more than just complain, you wouldn't be working at a law firm in the first place.
#4 -- love the brutal honesty. Perhaps you should try this approach more often. For example, when hiring a new associate, you might try saying: Your job description is to make me rich and look good. Your career prospects, development as a lawyer, your personal time, and your family are all irrelevant to me. The only thing you should expect out of this job is a paycheck, and possibly a bonus, if I feel like giving you one. And by the way, I will not hesitate to fire on a moment's notice if the bottom line demands it.
Or perhaps instead of giving a pep-talk about client needs and firm traditions, designed to inspire associates to work all-nighters for weeks on end,
you should just say: do it or I will find someone else who will.
If you already do this, I applaud your brutal honesty. But if you don't, I submit that you're a liar and a hypocrite.
And please don't feel compelled to respond to this post. Just think about the kind of miserable person you have become.
Ask any associate who has been laid off what's more important: the job, or the bonus.
I'm sure that D&P stashed away money for next year, too -- that'll make it more likely that their associates keep their jobs longer. In this world, employment is the best gift you can get.
16 -
You should already know all those things that you describe. If you do not, you should not be working at a top law firm - LEAVE NOW!!!
Partners say all the nice, inspirational things they do not mean because associates and law students like to listen to such things, just as associates seem obedient and eager to review agreements at 3am on Christmas Day because partners like to listen to such things. It is a fair trade.
If you are unhappy, BE HONEST - tell it to the partner's face that you are busy this weekend. The partner will respond truthfully - do it to make me richer or I will fire you.
It's really that simple.
Anyone's firm busy enough to have them working on Christmas this year? I'd be curious to see a poll on this one, Lat or Ellie.
16 -
Until you are ready to be honest as well - telling the partner that you hate working late, you are very unhappy about billing 2500 hours, you insist on attending your kid's recital this weekend, and that the partner is horrible to work with, you cannot demand that the partner be honest by telling you all the things you outlined.
16 - lawyers lie? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???
You've altered my entire worldview. I'm going to need to mull this over.
21, not just that, but according to 16, some lawyers say exaggerated things when they're trying to get someone else to do something, like working for them. It's almost like lawyers, just like regular people, engage in "puffery", if you will.
Inconceivable.
Damn, that's a lot of billable hours.
Let's do some simple math, shall we?
Case started 2 years ago, according to the article. Let's assume that D&P was retained right away or a total of 730 days. 300 people billed their time. 1,500,000 hours were billed. (Both numbers from article)
That's an average of over 6.85 for every single day for every single person. That includes weekends, holidays, etc - it's literally every single day of the year.
They were indeed busy!
Damn, that's a lot of billable hours.
Let's do some simple math, shall we?
Case started 2 years ago, according to the article. Let's assume that D&P was retained right away or a total of 730 days. 300 people billed their time. 1,500,000 hours were billed. (Both numbers from article)
That's an average of over 6.85 for every single day for every single person. That includes weekends, holidays, etc - it's literally every single day of the year.
They were indeed busy!
23, that 300 people also includes staff members and outside contractors (forensic people).
Sounds suspiciously like a case of hour padding.
Preach it #15!
Were any of those hours billed by MysTTTal???
There have been no layoffs here, stealth or otherwise. Bonuses are being paid regardless of hours. The work environment is collegial and drama-free. Senior associates are not hoarding work. Benefits have not been cut. We're all getting lockstep raises in 2009.
Do I wish I were getting a Skadden bonus? Of course. But all things considered, I feel zero resentment towards the partnership.
-Content D&P Associate
yeah what 15 said.
23, that 300 people also includes staff members and outside contractors (forensic people).
Sounds suspiciously like a case of hour padding.
Dumb. The 300 figure doesn't include the partners and staff of the outside auditing firm. I'm sure they milked this cow as well.
18/20: 16 here. Actually, I am fairly happy working in BigLaw (or as happy and well-compensated as an associate can be). I'm fairly honest with the partners about what I want (vacations, time-off, etc.). I'm considered good and well-liked, and because I've been around for a while (mid-level), the partners try (and typically do) accomodate my requests.
And I definitely understand the way BigLaw works and that all of us are replaceable (which by the way, includes most partners -- just ask your clients).
But if you think that somehow entitles you to treat young lawyers like garbage, you are wrong. I know I will not pursuade of this, but I can't help but feel sorry for you.
As a mid-size firm guy, I rarely have sympathy for the whining of the BigLaw bitches. But this . . . this is a new level of outrageousness. The associates working on Siemens had every right to expect to be rewarded for their efforts. They are getting royally screwed.
Lat your math is wrong, sorry. Deloitte's forensic accounting group was the forensic accounting firm that handled this as well and they captured a huge portion of those billable hours so not all went to DP. Figures I've heard for Deloitte are 300M+ but you cannot just subtract that to get DPs fees since other consultants were involved for various pieces of this investigation.
Also, travel cost are included in that 1billion figure and flying business class around the world with that many people - adds up.
@32 They had every REASON to expect a bonus, they certainly didn't have the "right" to expect a bonus.
Unless your contract with your firm outlines bonus expectations and salary increases you're kind of fucked.
Most people who work for BigLaw are bitches, and they get treated like bitches. If you're an associate who is directly responsible for revenue you'll be rewarded, simple as that.
While D&P clearly made out like bandits on the Siemens investigation, don't forget about their large PE fund formation and buyout practice. Some of the Siemens money covered for reduced profits here, while hopefully they held onto some in anticipation of PE not rebounding in the first half of 09.
For those who want to complain that the litigators should get their fair share and screw the corp attorneys, don't forget the corp boom was responsible for raising salaries and bonuses to where they are now.
@35, exactly right. Also, Deb's PPP may be high this year on the back of Siemens, but will probably plunge in 2009 (as they will at a lot of firms)... which helps explain why the firm is not willing to pay big assoc bonuses this year. They want to increase 2008 partner comp in advance of a rough 2009.
#15 - most sensible and insightful post of the year.
15 should spend more time preparing for his Contracts exam, and less waxing philosophical on the interwebs.
15 should spend more time preparing for his Contracts exam, and less waxing philosophical on the interwebs.
28 is right on
28 is right on
you're a genius 15. No one denies that. No one could possibly understand the depths of you. But you presume to know everything about me because you saw that i work for a law firm, and you ripped my fucking life apart. You're a law student, right? Do you think that I'd know the first thing about how hard your life has been - how you feel, who you are - because I took Torts? Does that encapsulate you? Personally, I don't give a shit about all that, because - You know what? I can't learn anything from you.
#15 -- There is plenty of satisfaction in winning cases, closing deals, and otherwise helping clients as a lawyer in BIGLAW, regardless of whether the positive outcomes provide greater financial benefits to the lawyer. As defense counsel in litigation, for example, winning generally does not pay differently than losing. Indeed, winning a motion to dismiss makes you far less money than losing and stringing the case along. People who don't get satisfaction from the opportunity to help clients, or from the work itself, are setting themselves up for an unhappy time at a BIGLAW firm. but this does not condemn the entire profession, as your silly screed does.
Amen to 28.
-Another Content D&P Associate
42 - cite to sources. ty. it's too good a movie not to get credit for that wit.
lol, semens.
45- kind of figured everyone would recognize it, but thanks for the tip.
Pssst, 15, Captain Renault only pretended to be shocked. He knew about the gambling all along. Your post implies that associates are too dumb to recognize the economic and structural realities driving the bonuses (actually, no, we just don't like them). That's the opposite scenario.
Insult your future taskmasters all you like, but leave Casablanca (and Claude Rains) out of it.
The only thing more pathetic than a Biglaw associate, is a Biglaw associate who posts on this site.
Again, people act as if partners are these evil people who treat associates soooo poorly... realize we come out of law school with very little practical skills and ZERO clients... firms train us, pay us six-figure salaries, and give us a nice prestigious knotch on our resumes... after a few years of making serious coin, we have the mobility to go wherever we want. Some can stay and try to make partner and others can go elsewhere. I think it's a ridiculously good deal.
The self-important partners posting on here are merely justifying their own unhappy choices. Of course the bosses have control, how is this any different than any other employment situation?
#15: I'm not Oprah, but DAMN if your comment didn't change my life. You said all the things I want to say, but I don't have the eloquence. Thank you. Thank you, and excuse me while I rewrite my resume to get out of this hell hole called "law firm marketing."
#15: Haven't seen you since our days in Munich. Hope you're doing well.