Law Firm Merger Mania: Thacher Proffitt To Be Rescued by King & Spalding?
Talks between Thacher Proffitt and King & Spalding, a story we broke here, remain ongoing. From the Legal Times:
Atlanta-based King & Spalding is in talks to acquire most, but not all of Thacher Proffitt & Wood’s lawyers, say two sources aware of the discussions. In order to avoid dissolution, New York-based Thacher hopes to find a partner to acquire it, these sources say.One New York legal consultant says the discussions have been ongoing for the past three to four months, and that the firms hope to reach an agreement by year-end. The consultant says King & Spalding is considering taking on about 100 of Thacher’s 195 lawyers, but that it’s not yet clear which practices and offices the 100 lawyers would come from. “There’s a tremendous amount of uncertainty about who’s going to be invited to the party,” says the consultant, who asked not to be named.
Not sure we’d call it a “party.” But the alternative to a K&S acquisition isn’t appealing:
[Thacher’s] overall headcount is down more than 100 lawyers compared to last year — and so are its profits. Profits per partner fell more than 22 percent in 2007 to $1.02 million, according to the Am Law 200.The firm has had a constant stream of high-profile departures, including its vice chairman Thomas Leslie, who decamped for Greenberg Traurig in October, and Washington managing partner Richard Schaberg, who left for Hogan & Hartson’s D.C. office last month. The New York consultant and another individual familiar with the discussions say that if the deal falls through, Thacher Proffitt will likely go under.
It’s worth noting that TPW has placed its New York headquarters up for sublease (as reported by Lindsay Fortado and David Levitt of Bloomberg). If TPW is seeking a subtenant for all five floors it leases at Two World Financial Center, then one has to wonder if the firm plans to continue operations (at least in its current form).
As for King & Spalding, it’s growing strategically, despite the downturn. The firm recently snagged three energy partners from Kirkland & Ellis. KS hopefully has room in the lifeboat for Thacherites seeking a new home.
To Avoid Dissolution, Thacher Proffitt Talks With King & Spalding [Legal Times via WSJ Law Blog]
Thacher Proffitt Puts Up New York Office Space for Sublease [Bloomberg]
King & Spalding Adds Three Energy Partners in Washington, D.C. [King & Spalding]
(114) Comments
Comments
FIRST
thirdsty
Unlikely in this environment. No bank support = no merger.
Heard that the firm was already dissolving.
2
First the snowman
2
Firsty the snowman
King and Spalding's NY office is a joke. They removed the managing partner a few years ago. Word is the Atlanta office was propping up the NY office. It is basically an IP boutique now, from what I understand. My guess is that King and Spalding is probably focused on Thacher Proffitt's NY office. Taking on an established NY office seems like a good way from King and Spalding to grow that office and its profitability after years of failure. Looks like a good move to me.
Only $1M profit per partner? How will they ever make do?
9,
Is TPW even profitable though?
Isn't Spalding just an older Trig Palin?
So at the end of all of this consolidation, there will be about a dozen truly large firms left? I wonder if associate salaries in NY and other large markets will remain at current levels or decrease a little? Anyone have thoughts?
HI CAVEMAN! DIE!
HI CAVEMAN! DIE!
A&B eats K&S's lunch.
where is elie
These firms are what I believe the young associates call tee-tee-tee.
-old partner dood
llb '52
Is TPW what Skadden uses to wipe the Ass Cravath?
i'm just sayin...
Associates are already testing the limits of fungibility at the end of the year and beyond.
Will be interesting to see which TPW associate makes it and the ones that don't.
mr. lat: please, please keep posting here. other, ahem, bloggers on this site don't write as well as you, and they post news after it has broken. they also give nonsense advice such as "accept your offers."
you'll have nothing and like it!
TTThacher ProfiTTT
Anyone know what K&S bonuses are?
hate to break it to you all, but several other sites "broke" this news before Lat...
18 = awesome
- not 18
K&S bonus: You get to go home and see your family for a whole day!
K&S looks strong these days.
18 did not nail it, missed the nail completely, and smashed his gay little thumb like Mystal smashes cupcakes.
how so?
KS = Kilpatrick Stockon.
K&S = King & Spalding.
~Non-NYC Atty.
31: Both are TTTs so who cares?
ONE HUNDRED NINETY-FIVE! ONE HUNDRED NINETY-FIVE THACHER PROFFITT LAWYERS!!!
ONE HUNDRED! ONE HUNDRED GOING TO KING & SPALDING!!!!!
LET US COUNT THE RESULTING LAYOFFS!!!! AH AH AH AH AH!!!!!!!!!
- Count Layoffula
32 - You seem to have taken the time to read not only the post re. K&S but the comments as well....
Who is ROD PAMPERS?
1 <3 count layoffula
I think 18's comment is hilarious.
- 18 wanna be striver
old partner dood
1) stop posting how much you like your lame posts right after posting
2) stop posting all together, nervous is genius by comparison, and he's an idiot
13, associate salaries won't being going anywhere unless hours worked drop. Here's a fun exercise: take your salary plus your bonus, and divide that sum by the number of hours you spent at work/out recruiting this year.
A decently busy first year should get ~$55/hr this year, of which ~$25/hr goes straight to income taxes. That associate is sacrificing almost an entire year of their late twenties, after sleep and taxes, for the princely rate of $30 an hour.
$30 an hour.
Who is ROD PAMPERS?
where's Jack Bauer? He was legitimately funny.
#9 do you even know what you're talking about? Look at the work coming out of the NY office, not to mention 9 new offices that all came from NY and Atlanta based partners. If anything, NY is central to the firm's strategic growth. TP would be lucky to be picked up by K&S.
#9 do you even know what you're talking about? Look at the work coming out of the NY office, not to mention 9 new offices that all came from NY and Atlanta based partners. If anything, NY is central to the firm's strategic growth. TP would be lucky to be picked up by K&S.
K+S New York office is already a joke. It becomes a really BAD joke if they acquire TTThatcher ProffiTTT
They should merge with CWT. They are a much stronger shop and are weathering this storm better than most people give them credit for.
Does TPW still have its SF group? I thought ATL reported that the whole group was axed shortly after closing the AP office. So, what is the structure of TPW now?
39, first year tax attorney here. $90/hour, or $70/hour after taxes (did I mention I'm a tax attorney?).
Suck it :-)
Testing.. one...
Testing... two
Testing... three
Testing the limits of fungibility!
Does TPW still have its SF group? I thought ATL reported that the whole group was axed shortly after closing the AP office. So, what is the structure of TPW now?
47: So you're saying you never get ass...
Does TPW still have its SF group? I thought ATL reported that the whole group was axed shortly after closing the AP office. So, what is the structure of TPW now?
47 -- I have a sheep you can borrow for the weekend.
I sense jealously of 47.
-not 47, not a tax atty.
i don't think they removed the mp of the nyc office, think he left for other opportunities taking with him a very large book.
while i wouldn't wish k&s on anyone, it's better than no job. good luck to the tpw associates that dont get invited to join.
52, trust me, the general population does not notice any difference between corporate lawyers and corporate tax lawyers. And arguably, working with corporate tax law is marginally more interesting than making conforming changes in contracts from singular to plural.
~47
Atlanta attorney here...K&S is going strong. they cleaned house early in the year when no one would notice. Dont know much about the NY office. California is doing okay with some institutional clients keeping them open (i.e. no real new client base). cali is an IP shop (which i think was intended since the only real high level person over there in the beginning was their ip chair).
and no, i dont work at K&S. in fact, I am at one of their competitor firms, dont like working against them, but, have to give props to success.
41-
I appreciate the support, but I've got my own legal problems to deal with. Some Senators want to talk to me about events that happened while I was at my old firm (now dissolved). Apparently they aren't comfortable with my deviation from procedure in achieving superior results. It's like an associate billing over 3500 hours a year and then having some partner complain that the Seamless bill is a "little" high. If you want me to make dinner, don't ask me how much I paid for the groceries...
55,
There is a singular difference between corporate lawyers and corporate tax lawyers. The former are being laid off in droves while the latter are still working industriously.
Another tax lawyer.
32 - awesome.
I want a hamburg...no, a cheeseburger. I want a hot dog. I want a milkshake...
i don't think they removed the mp of the nyc office, think he left for other opportunities taking with him a very large book.
while i wouldn't wish k&s on anyone, it's better than no job. good luck to the tpw associates that dont get invited to join.
57,
I love you, man.
~ 41
I feel bad for the summer associates who have offers from Thatcher.
What is doc review? Could someone give me like 5 examples of what someone doing doc review does?
Comment removed by moderator.
38, I disagree. You are stupid. That is all.
- 26
Haha 64 sounds like he/she was part of the "house cleaning" that was referenced by an early poster. Bitter much?
*earlier
Don't be coy, 64-out with the dirt!
64 nailed it.
Comment removed by moderator.
K&S NYC didn't remove their MP. Jeff Smith and Steve Brody left to become the litigation group at McKee Nelson (taking 5 other partner and 14 associates with them). But neither was MP - they had only just come over from CWT a few years earlier.
hey 56 - the ip chair at k&s is named courtland ?
is he gay ?
former mp Michael O'Brien left, and presumably left a pile of money.
TPW's Summit office is toast. If held over, those lawyers better get used to commuting into the city. Good thing gas prices have dropped!
What is "tee-tee-tee"?
How are PPP $1MM?? I would think about zero (although I see it's for '07 but still)....
How are PPP $1MM?? I would think about zero (although I see it's for '07 but still)....
sorry - newbie here - what is TTT?
please, PLEASE someone take 78's bait. It will make my life complete.
78 - you are.
But then, so am I according to most on here. Do a quick google search. Research skills: FAIL.
78 here. Got it. TTT = most ATL posters. Shouldn't you guys be studying for finals and sending resumes out to gov't agencies? Douche bags.
Paul Clement instantly moves King & Spalding into the small circle of elite firms. After this market shake-out they should be top 10. I had a chance to go there a couple years ago and now sort of wish I had.
King Proffitt. I like it.
Hey 78/82 - wouldn't ya know it, that's just exactly what I was doing - studying for finals AND sending resumes to gov't agencies, at the same time! You must be precient!
-sucks to be top 1/3 at an L.A. T20 (which is total TTT for this crowd)
Is 79 happy now?
did anyone else notice that the Playboy chick is no longer with TPW? did she leave on her own? was she axed? did ATL cover this?
i was certain that a fit body made a girl recession proof, but who knows
For those of us who litigate, K&S is among the best in the U.S., certainly not TTT. I'm sure its transactional practice is weaker, as is the case for most non-NYC firms. But for litigation, that firm is a machine. If they pick up the core group of good finance lawyers at TPW, then by 2010 this might look genius.
The SF group is still at TPW - it is just much smaller than it was a year ago. At this point, I'd be surprised if much of the SF group moves over to K&S. K&S is probably acquiring most all attorneys from the other practice groups.
KING AND SPAULDING NEW YORK JUST MATCHED SKADDED ARPS. YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST, MOFOS.
Hey 78/82, guys at my high school used to be surrounded by DBs all the time, it was no big deal.
The K & S NY office is a steaming TTT. Their former MP was Michael O'Brien, who left after a disasterous few years during which the office was just bleeding lawyers and money bigtime. Especially on the transactional side, the partners with prospects and a book of business mostly left. All this, during boomtime.
I interviewed with them, but thank my lucky stars I didn't accept their offer.
turnover at KS is 20% every year at all levels
they do have kick ass business model though
they establish relationships with clients at the board level and then force feed overpriced work down the throats of legal department of the client - which work for KS, not the other way around
occasionally this model blow up - as it did recently when the buffoon general counsel that they placed turned out to be incompetent and they lost all work
for laterals, they size people up and decide if they can steal their clients - i suspect this is why the merger is even going froward
they are a firm with lots of sociopaths
Comment removed by moderator.
The Paul Clement pick-up for the D.C. office was pretty big. Additionally, stealing three energy partners from K&E was a good move by K&S D.C. I know much less about what goes on in their NYC office...
I blame this on the MO. He knows who he is.
83 - be happy you are not there. i was. it is a hell hole.
83 - which office?
The reason why K & S will never be able to play with the big boys internationally is because of its weak institutional client base and the inability of Atlanta to share the pie. Look, it's the dominant Atlanta firm, but that means nothing outside of Atlanta.
Hays and gang can talk all they want about collegiality and the old glory days, but the truth is the firm is now a cut throat every-partner -or-himself-or-herself place. The institutional client relationships are firmly held in the hands of the old Atlanta boys. Few partners outside Atlanta get to benefit from the institutional relationships. Well, unless you were an Atlanta stalwart in the first place. So much for working across offices. New partners are expected to bring in their own work.
Morale is low across the board because the associates all know the firm would rather hire lateral partners than grow organically. Also, if you are a minority, good luck with trying to make it in that white frathouse/sorority culture.
The reason why K & S will never be able to play with the big boys internationally is because of its weak institutional client base and the inability of Atlanta to share the pie. Look, it's the dominant Atlanta firm, but that means nothing outside of Atlanta.
Hays and gang can talk all they want about collegiality and the old glory days, but the truth is the firm is now a cut throat every-partner -or-himself-or-herself place. The institutional client relationships are firmly held in the hands of the old Atlanta boys. Few partners outside Atlanta get to benefit from the institutional relationships. Well, unless you were an Atlanta stalwart in the first place. So much for working across offices. New partners are expected to bring in their own work.
Morale is low across the board because the associates all know the firm would rather hire lateral partners than grow organically. Also, if you are a minority, good luck with trying to make it in that white frathouse/sorority culture.
The reason why K & S will never be able to play with the big boys internationally is because of its weak institutional client base and the inability of Atlanta to share the pie. Look, it's the dominant Atlanta firm, but that means nothing outside of Atlanta.
Hays and gang can talk all they want about collegiality and the old glory days, but the truth is the firm is now a cut throat every-partner -or-himself-or-herself place. The institutional client relationships are firmly held in the hands of the old Atlanta boys. Few partners outside Atlanta get to benefit from the institutional relationships. Well, unless you were an Atlanta stalwart in the first place. So much for working across offices. New partners are expected to bring in their own work.
Morale is low across the board because the associates all know the firm would rather hire lateral partners than grow organically. Also, if you are a minority, good luck with trying to make it in that white frathouse/sorority culture.
The reason why K & S will never be able to play with the big boys internationally is because of its weak institutional client base and the inability of Atlanta to share the pie. Look, it's the dominant Atlanta firm, but that means nothing outside of Atlanta.
Hays and gang can talk all they want about collegiality and the old glory days, but the truth is the firm is now a cut throat every-partner -or-himself-or-herself place. The institutional client relationships are firmly held in the hands of the old Atlanta boys. Few partners outside Atlanta get to benefit from the institutional relationships. Well, unless you were an Atlanta stalwart in the first place. So much for working across offices. New partners are expected to bring in their own work.
Morale is low across the board because the associates all know the firm would rather hire lateral partners than grow organically. Also, if you are a minority, good luck with trying to make it in that white frathouse/sorority culture.
99 - which office were you at?
Lat, get it right. TPW has been closing its satellite offices down to do the K&S deal and because their bank lenders want it done; their satellite offices were tiny, in the middle of nowhere and loss leaders (Summit, NJ? White Plains?-those are rest stops not major cities for law firms) . Anybody "high profile" and with a brain left the HMS TPW Titanic a while ago...
Lat, get it right. TPW has been closing its satellite offices down to do the K&S deal and because their bank lenders want it done; their satellite offices were tiny, in the middle of nowhere and loss leaders (Summit, NJ? White Plains?-those are rest stops not major cities for law firms) . Anybody "high profile" and with a brain left the HMS TPW Titanic a while ago...
King & Spalding NY is a joke. I worked there for 2 years, and can tell stories. The MP Bob Perry (nice guy) is pretty soft and the NY office is held up by strings that are primarily controlled by the Atlanta office. If you are talking about technology, they are in the stone age. With that said, the firm has alot of old money, so its in decent shape, but I know theyve taken alot of hits. TPW had a very flawed business plan, so it leaves one to wonder, if 0+0 could ever =1
hey 102 - great post
dead on
K&S is a revolving door and a hell hole
When I left, a partner threatended to "shoot me" if I said anything bad about the firm - same partner knew all of the dirst and referred to the Atlanta office as "talking down to all of their local clients" and "the folks in Atlanta drinking the Kool-Aid"
I knew one partner there who asked staff people to spy on other partners
It is a pathetic firm
As for Robert Hays, he needs to grow some hair - the bald-headed thing doesn't work on a white man at all - and the cowboy boots don't work either
One of the most bizarre K&S stories was the 9 month pregnanat staff person who was interrogated by a practice group leader to try and get dirt on another partner - the preganant woman stopped the interrogation and walked out to her credit
Working there is like being Michael Clayton 24/7
107 - do spell check
otherwise you are dead on
they also have a well-deserved reputation for hiring lateral partners so they can steal clients
if i was a thatcherite, i would be real careful
I too used to work at this hellhole. They're cheap with everything. A lot of empty rhetoric about work excellence and commitment to professionalism, but seriously the only way to get ahead at this place is to kiss ass. And the right ass at that. But this strategy only works if you are one of the good 'ol boys or girls. Who can coast through. If you're not connected or have the right skin color, then you have to have sterling academic achievements, be billing like a crazy person and generally be so much better that they rely on you for your work and/or clients.
i was in their corporate department. when i heard coca-cola gave that huge deal to skadden (when it's supposedly one of the firm's institutional clients), i made up my mind to leave. and i did. within 2 months.
rumor mill says that K&S voted down acquisition last week -- tactic to acquire even less than the 100 total?
What happens to summer associates that had offers from TPW? Whether the deal goes through or not, won't summer offers be rescinded? Is it customary to give those guys severance? Can't imagine any acquiring firm would want inexperienced, untrained newbies, esp. with well-honed terrified little drone bees more than willing.
thatcherites - be careful
i would bet that king and spalding is researching to see what client they can steal - they will then bring you in and do everything they can to slander you to the client
i have seen it in action
it is a firm of sociopaths
i know people who were threatened with physical harm when they were in the process of leaving
i know people who were victims of violence from people at the firm
i know a policeman - who worked part-time for the firm - who told me "... that doesn't supprise me ..." when told that someone suspected a partner of vandalizing another partner's car in the firm parking garage
it is a dangerous place to work
113 (I guess you are also 93), you should stop making these ridiculous statements about K & S being a "firm of sociopaths." I used to work there, and while there are many problems with the firm and particularly with some of the individuals there, these are not particular to K & S. However, I do agree with you 113, that some of the senior people at the firm seem to take departures personally and generally can't accept that people move because there's nothing in the place for them.
102 hit it well on the head. Many partners and associates have left the firm precisely because of those issues.