first to say it's the end of the world!

First

Firsty!

First

burp

first

first

first

first to say it's the end of the world!

Class.

first to say second

any first years get laid off here? a bunch of first and second years were let go at Proskauer this afternoon

The "new trend" in honest layoffs is hardly new. White & Case was upfront but got no props for it.

Elie is hefty

it's a perfect storm out there. ridiculously high salaries for associates, high billing rates, and huge overhead coupled with hiring and overhiring - all exacerbated by firms merging to become bigger and bigger. at what point will the huge firms start to freefall like heller/thelen? is this the beginning of the end of megafirms and back to regionals?

LeBoeuf can suck my oeufs

Question? When...I mean if...I get fired, what is waiting for me? Clearly there is no room in Big Law for all of these associates, and ill be the first to say that I just don't have the chops to hang a shingle. Was going to law school the biggest mistake of my life?

it's a perfect storm out there. ridiculously high salaries for associates, high billing rates, and huge overhead coupled with hiring and overhiring - all exacerbated by firms merging to become bigger and bigger. at what point will the huge firms start to freefall like heller/thelen? is this the beginning of the end of megafirms and back to regionals?

It's the end of the world as we know it and I don't feel fine.

19 -- yes. Back to firms with one solid office that does good work, or maybe a couple of offices, but definitely less than 5+. Forget the satellite office crap.

Still waiting for the first V15 firm to buckle. I'm looking at you Latham and STB.

nice use of "step up to the plate" twice in one day. does harvard law offer a class teaching you how to use cliches as often as possible? if only i could have written that poorly and still been accepted at harvard. oh, wait, i should have joined BLSA.

21: I strongly disagree. DLA and Skadden seem to be doing just fine. In fact, their diversity is helping them out now.

Class. Refreshing.

Class. Refreshing.

Class. Refreshing.

This thing is growing fast.

THE LIST: This list does not include "redeployments," mergers, staff, or staff attorneys.
Announced | Firm | Location | Total | "Review-Based"? | Acknowledged?
1/11/2007 Kenyon & Kenyon US 16 No Yes
10/1/2007 Thacher Proffitt & Wood US 24 No Yes
10/17/2007 Kirkland & Ellis Chicago 6 to 8 Yes No
1/10/2008 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft Charlotte 9 No Yes
1/10/2008 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft NYC 26 No Yes
2/14/2008 Winstead PC Dallas ~3 Yes Yes
2/29/2008 Dechert US 13 No Yes
3/20/2008 Thelen Reid Brown Raysman & Steiner US 26 No Yes
4/4/2008 Dewey & LeBoeuf Jacksonville 10 No Yes
4/4/2008 Dewey & LeBoeuf Hartford 22 No Yes
4/4/2008 Dewey & LeBoeuf Austin 16 No Yes
4/25/2008 Sutherland Asbill & Brennan Atlanta 8 Mix Yes
4/25/2008 Sutherland Asbill & Brennan DC <7 Mix Yes
5/12/2008 Paul Hastings US 22 Yes Yes
5/28/2008 Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal US 37 No Yes
6/5/2008 Blank Rome Philadelphia 6 Yes Yes
6/5/2008 Blank Rome NYC 2 Yes Yes
6/5/2008 Blank Rome DC 1 Yes Yes
6/11/2008 Thacher Proffitt & Wood US 36 No Yes
6/23/2008 Powell Goldstein US <10 No Yes
7/1/2008 Patton Boggs Dallas 4 Yes Yes
7/1/2008 Patton Boggs US 5 Yes Yes
7/14/2008 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LA, SF, San Diego 15 Unk No
7/16/2008 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman East Coast <10 Unk No
7/30/2008 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft NYC, Charlotte, London, DC 96 No Yes
8/4/2008 DLA Piper London 1 No Yes
8/6/2008 Sullivan & Worcester Boston & NY 7 Yes No
8/12/2008 Simpson Thacher & Bartlett global 30 Yes No
8/21/2008 Morgan & Finnegan NYC ~4 No Yes
9/22/2008 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer unknown <5 No Yes
9/25/2008 Heller Ehrman US ~600? No Yes
10/2/2008 Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal US 25 No Yes
10/14/2008 Clifford Chance NYC & DC 20 No Yes
10/20/2008 Dewey & LeBoeuf Charlotte 8 No Yes
10/20/2008 Katten Muchin Rosenman US 21 No Yes
10/21/2008 Jenner & Block US 10 No Yes
10/22/2008 Dechert US 10 to 30 Yes No
10/23/2008 O'Melveny & Myers LA 5 Yes Yes
10/27/2008 White & Case Milan 14 No Yes
10/28/2008 Thelen Reid Brown Raysman & Steiner US ~500? No Yes
10/30/2008 Bell Boyd & Lloyd Chicago 10 No Yes
11/3/2008 McKee Nelson NYC 13 No Yes
11/3/2008 McKee Nelson DC 4 No Yes
11/11/2008 Loeb & Loeb US 8 Yes Yes
11/11/2008 White & Case US, London 70 No Yes
11/12/2008 Moore Van Allen Charlotte 20 No Yes
11/13/2008 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe US 40 No Yes
11/14/2008 Greenberg Traurig NYC unk No No
11/19/2008 Brown Rudnick US 20 No Yes
11/20/2008 Mayer Brown US 33 No Yes
11/20/2008 Squire Sanders US <30 Yes Yes
11/21/2008 Dewey & LeBoeuf NYC 5 to 11 Unk No
11/21/2008 Fried Frank US 15 Yes No
12/1/2008 Fried Frank US 15 Yes No
12/3/2008 Reed Smith UK 11 No Yes
12/4/2008 Proskauer Rose US 35 No Yes
12/4/2008 Dewey & LeBoeuf NY 11 No Yes
12/4/2008 Dewey & LeBoeuf LA 1 No Yes

Wonder how happy those 12 are with their Cravath level bonuses that were announced yesterday?

The list is like an octopus.

help us count layoffula, you're our only hope

Elie:
Please do some reporting on NY law firms that are hiring.

Thanks

so, no bonus news today?

The horror.

NY to 190!

Was this really worth a firmwide memo? Granted, it sucks to be them, but 11 positions out of 1400 is hardly dramatic... My heart goes out to the individuals in question but what's next, a memo each time an associate gets shown the door?

man, that oasis show last night in oakland was beyond awesome!!

Wonder how happy those 12 are with their Cravath level bonuses that were announced yesterday?

28: thanks for putting that together. can you update it to include Staff Attorneys? They are still attorney layoffs and should be equally scrutinized as an indicator of firm health.

Anyone notice how the first 10 comments on every single post are absolutely and utterly useless?

In anticipation of comment 40something--yes, this post may also be useless, but your mom is useless.

yeah, take that ...

You missed S&S who is canning ppl stealthily.

Thanks for the list, 28

Elie:

Who in NY law is hiring at the moment?

Elie:

Who in NY law is hiring at the moment?

Elie:

Who in NY law is hiring at the moment?

How can it be that SCHULTE ROTH & ZABEL is not laying people off?

Elie:

Who in NY law is hiring at the moment?

Classy would have been doing this two weeks ago.

29 - There is zero chance that any of these 12 would get a bonus because (1) there is no way that they were on track to bill 2k hrs this year and be on the butcher block and (2) bonus checks here do not come out until Feb or March, so they would be gone anyway.

36 - the firm has been "letting go" other associates here and there in some of the regional offices for some time now. Perhaps it is only memo-worthy if the layoff occurs in the NY office.

Severance?

41, shearman hasn't been conducting stealth layoffs. Just like any other year, a very small number of associates have been let go because their work product was shit.

They still have really nice office space though, so suck it Skadden.

Becuz SRZ gets the biz and it's the Z in SRZ that duz it

Proskauer has been doing stealth layoffs for months, please don't sanitize their actions. At least these folks get bonus (supposedly).

47 - Grinch and Associates may have openings in their Whoville office.

47 - Nobody

Elie is clearly an expert at stepping up to the plate.

22- Looks like STB is really going down in flames.

"The Firm was ranked first for announced mergers and acquisitions and first for completed mergers and acquisitions deals by volume, for the period January 1 through November 17, 2008 as reported by Dealogic. The firm advised on 75 announced deals with an aggregate value exceeding $378 billion and Dealogic also ranked Simpson Thacher first for completed deals by volume, having advised on 71 completed deals with an aggregate value exceeding $278 billion. Rankings are based on full credit amount and include target and bidder advisors."

wow...Elie's earlier post today about Chicago getting hit harder than NYC is completely accurate. Wow...think about all those Dewey associates in the "Chicago office" looking for work.

Same with Proskauer...I really wish I was in NYC instead. It's a blood bath out here.

MysTTTal

BOSTON...does anyone have any news re: Boston? I've only uncovered one firm laying off lawerys. Everyone else cut staff. Is cutting staff a prelude to cutting attorneys?

48 - Why would it have been better to lay people off before Thanksgiving? In this job market, surely every extra week of salary is helpful.

Elie,

I think you got confused. Those 11 Dewey associates MUST have been from Chicago. They are clearly the hardest-hit market in the country.

/you're a retard.

WILDMAN & HARROLD is hiring in NYC!

Can someone comment on the truthiness of STB laying people off (in the LIST).

I think that's BS.

STB Alum

If the 12 haven't been removed from the website yet, the reason it was memo-worthy is that the 12 being let go are ALL of the StrucFin associates in the US (there's a tax guy in DC whose bio is all about SF, but he's still a tax guy). When you COMPLETELY wipe out a department, it's memo-worthy.

First!

22,

I think the first V15 firm to buckle would be Sidley. They have a huge structured finance practice and are hugely exposed to the turmoils in the capital markets.

66 here--

Search was bad, there are slightly more than 12 US associates in SF at D&L. But it's still about half of the associates who list SF as at least part of their practice.

49: You're a moron. The others were performance related, and clearly D&L sees no reason not to say when they are economically driven, so why wouldn't they?

I'm not at DL.

49: You're a moron. The others were performance related, and clearly D&L sees no reason not to say when they are economically driven, so why wouldn't they?

I'm not at DL.

66 again--

There are a number of SF associates (including senior assocs) whose bios are blank--looks like those are likely the 12.

There are 41 Structured Finance associates at D&L in the US.

There are 41 Structured Finance associates at D&L in the US.

68--

Well, it's obviously b/t Sidley and K&E, since the Chicago market is such a complete disaster.

66:

I think one way to tell is to look at the bios of the SF associates. I have a friend who is/was at Dewey, in the SF group. I happened to be looking at his/her bio a week or so ago. When I heard about this, my first instinct was to check on his/her bio - it has been completely stripped of all details and the picture, save for his/her contact info and educational info. I have a sneaking suspicion that this is true for those affected. Which sucks.

Correction: there *were* 41 SF associates in D&L in the US.

61 - name names!

66:

I think one way to tell is to look at the bios of the SF associates. I have a friend who is/was at Dewey, in the SF group. I happened to be looking at his/her bio a week or so ago. When I heard about this, my first instinct was to check on his/her bio - it has been completely stripped of all details and the picture, save for his/her contact info and educational info. I have a sneaking suspicion that this is true for those affected. Which sucks.

man, that oasis show last night in oakland was beyond awesome!!

"There are 41 Structured Finance associates at D&L in the US"

Not even close, based on the website today. It's 26. Might be 41 worldwide; I'm too lazy to check again.

--66

re: Sidley

If they have a problem, it's going to be in their NY office, which is 2/3 the size of the Chicago office, but was 2x the SF lawyers.

It is so mean to fire people right before the holidays/bonus season. I hate grinches.

The whole performance driven layoff vs. economically driven layoff distinction is bullsh*t. The fact is, they laid off some associates that were part of a larger practice group. Others were allowed to stay. Does anyone really think management just rolled the dice when deciding who got to stay and who got the boot?

"does anyone have any news re: Boston? I've only uncovered one firm laying off lawerys"

There's more than one Boston firm that anyone cares about?

This is all false.

also, 84, does it really matter at this point. there are no big law jobs out there. regardless of what you tell your prospective employer - performance or nonperformance based. the market sucks. more layoffs to come...

That's really awful to have the unhired identified by a lack of picture and a blank screen for their bios. Nothing like making it obvious.

If layoffs are based on economic reasons, why are firms bothering with large summer associate classes if they're firing the attorneys they already have? If firms only have work for a certain number of associates and then it hires 80 more the next year, doesn't that mean there have to be more firings?

"That's really awful to have the unhired identified by a lack of picture and a blank screen for their bios. Nothing like making it obvious."

Stay classy, D&L.

D&L is a crappy firm. Can't they relocate associates at their bankruptcy dept? Why doesn't Marty Bienenstock bring a client?

Yes, Sidley will have to slim down its structured finance/cap markets practice at some point, definitely- but overall the firm has a VERY diversified practice and isnt as far up shits creek as Latham and STB.

Though I do wonder the mood will be like tonight at Sidley's big holiday party at the Pierre...

-84 - it matter b/c the people laid off at Proskauer and D&L today have a significant advantage over the people who were fired for "performance" by Fried Frank. Sure, there are very few opportunities out there but if you are a recruiting person at a firm with a job to fill and a Proskauer resume and FF resume cross your desk with the same background and experience, you are going to interview the Proskauer person b/c their firm didn't say they were poor performers. Of course, in layoffs that are economic based performance is considered but so are other factors.

D&L and Proskauer completely outclassed Fried Frank in handling this situation. It seems as if every firm that has done a significant layoff in a concentrated period of time has done it by being honest about the economic situation other than Fried Frank. Fried Frank has distinguished itself as the scummiest place in the city.

28: You should add the Vault ranking and/or Amlaw ranking to your list.

84, just b/c the layoffs weren't random doesn't mean they were performance based. there are many factors that go into who wins the Lottery (Shirley Jackson version).

The lack of a picture and/or bio is definitely not an appropriate way to compile the list of names.

~D&L associate

Wait, wait. Dewey has an office in Almaty? As in Kazakhstan? Great success!!

http://www.deweyleboeuf.com/Locations/office.aspx?office=2

This would never happen at WILDMAN HARROLD Chicago!

I wonder what kind of deal this associate with a JD from NYU gets in Almaty: http://www.deweyleboeuf.com/vladimir_shuster/. He must be one of the most highly paid associates in the world, in real dollars that is.

He has pretentious hair, so it's hard to tell, but that Almaty associate might be kind of hot.

Interesting observation: this (male) senior associate from DLA Piper's Kiev office looks exactly like Marjorie, from the last cycle of America's Next Top Model:

http://www.dlapiper.com/illya_muchnyk/

So, is Dewey closing the Almaty office? How is business in Almaty? Should I apply?

Dewey Ballantine associate bios were always blank. Just name, education and contact info. After the merger, lots of legacy Dewey associates just never bothered to create a bio. The fact that some are blank is meaningless.

I have to ask the question b/c this issue comes up often, but whether the firm does "stealth" layoffs by calling them performance based or just says its because of the economy, save the firm that actually lays off an entire department, aren't all of the layoffs really performance based?

I mean, if a firm is letting you go, that means there are other people at the firm that are doing a better job then you. Maybe in a booming economy your poor performace would go unnoticed, or your just "good" performance would not be cause for dismissal, but really, the reason you are being let go IS performance based.

just saying.

Who starts a memo with "like"...

IF Dewey want's to become more efficient, they should start by trimming down the long internal memos and get STRAIGHT TO THE FUCKING POINT.

FUCKING ASSHOLE WASTED MY TIME TO TELL ME I AM FIRED.....

Who starts a memo with "like"...

IF Dewey want's to become more efficient, they should start by trimming down the long internal memos and get STRAIGHT TO THE FUCKING POINT.

FUCKING ASSHOLE WASTED MY TIME TO TELL ME I AM FIRED.....

this was a shock, but this was to be expected. the structured finance department was too large and work had dried up.

Is there a single redeeming thing about working in BIGLAW as an associate except for the paycheck (which could end at pretty much any time)?

Mom was right....shoulda been a doctor.

85 generally but lots of other ATL posters specifically

First, let me say that I am pleasantly suprised that you didn't call me out on my typo. That says much about you given the amount of venom spewed on ATL re: people misspelling words.

Second, is this really what we do? Why is it that some among us seem to get so much pleasure from disparaging cities, schools, firms, etc.? Are there really some out there that feel that important?

Let me guess the next post: Boston is TTT. Sound about right? This is all pretty silly. You've got the d-bag who calls himself "nervous T10 1L" and folks like you who presumably think that the law is only seriously practiced in NYC (or maybe you'll give props to London) and only at one of three of four firms. Seriously? What the f*** is wrong with lawyers/law students? No wonder society hates us--the vast lot of us are pretentious, arrogant, I'm-entitled-to-[bonus/job/etc]-a-holes. Its hard to believe that clients will put their life and limb on the shoulders of a bunch of adult children.

Have a wonderful holiday!

PS So, any news on Boston?

108, believe it or not some people actually enjoy working in biglaw---just not most of the posters here.

109 = TTT

True 110, but most would leave if the paycheck wasn't there. Sure challenging work is nice, but the stress and dead end nature of it aren't. A lot of politicians and public officials go into biglaw for the money and leave to do things they feel passionate about.

93 is wrong, and 104 is right.

In fact, it is better for a laid off associate to be the victim of stealth unless it is an entire group (eg structured finance) being let go. If prospect comes from a firm at which there was a publicly announced "honorable" lay-off, then prospective employers will feel quite comfortable asking whether prospect was a victim (and then will add 2 and 2 to get 4 about their skills). The only exception is the catch-22 structured finance situation in which no inference re skills will be made, but, by definition, no jobs exist.

On the other hand, in stealth situation, employers are not comfortable directly asking "did you get whacked" because there was no publicly announced lay-off. Prospect can artfully describe their concerns re health of firm (that stealthily laid them off) and likely can talk about years of good reviews. Prospect is better off than in the stealth scenario (unless prospect is comfortable and effective in outright lying re being victim of honest lay-off).

Finally, I will note that, contrary to Elie's post, D&L did not really protect the whackees because it made clear that it had not whacked the entire department, merely reduced its size. Thus, the usual inference will be drawn (perhaps with a bit less intensity) re performance of those let go.

112, what i mean is: true some people hate biglaw. true some people like biglaw only because it pays very well. however, there ARE people who ENJOY biglaw. These people feel passionate about it and don't think that biglaw is stressful or that it is dead end in nature. As much as you might doubt it, these people exist.

-110

BREAKING NEWS:

A CRAPPY FIRM LAYS OFF CRAPPY ASSOCIATES

110/114: Passionate about what aspect exactly? Solving corporate problems one big deal/case at a time? Just wondering what passion one finds in this work. In medicine you help save lives, business you get the thrill of seeing new ideas grow, public service your work is to help improve the lives of everyday Americans. Just curious. Maybe you do find passion and can help me see what I just can't. Don't get me wrong there are incredible people lost within it, but I think you take away the paycheck those people would find more useful ways to spend their hours.

110/114: Passionate about what aspect exactly? Solving corporate problems one big deal/case at a time? Just wondering what passion one finds in this work. In medicine you help save lives, business you get the thrill of seeing new ideas grow, public service your work is to help improve the lives of everyday Americans. Just curious. Maybe you do find passion and can help me see what I just can't. Don't get me wrong there are incredible people lost within it, but I think you take away the paycheck those people would find more useful ways to spend their hours. Like a very wise law professor that spent years in biglaw said to my class - "my job may pay less than yours, but it's way better."

113 - did you read my post at 93? I was talking about Fried Frank. In a period 1-2 weeks they axed 30 or more associates (no one knows the entire results of the carnage). Do you really think those people are better off b/c no one is going to directly ask them about why they are looking for a job? You are retarded. Anyone who applies for a job with FF on their resume right now is totally scarred by what happened there. People who didn't get let go can't even look for a job if they wanted to b/c everyone will assume they are one of the people who are "poor performers". Fried Frank screwed everyone - the people let go and the people who have to stay at that shithole.

Good job 111.

36 - "Was this really worth a firmwide memo? Granted, it sucks to be them, but 11 positions out of 1400 is hardly dramatic... My heart goes out to the individuals in question but what's next, a memo each time an associate gets shown the door?"

84 "The whole performance driven layoff vs. economically driven layoff distinction is bullsh*t. The fact is, they laid off some associates that were part of a larger practice group. Others were allowed to stay. Does anyone really think management just rolled the dice when deciding who got to stay and who got the boot?"

So 36- don't you think it says something that a firm with 1400 lawyers can't/won't redeploy 12 associates worldwide? 12 is just the tip of the iceburg and its a message. Attrition is extremely low and anyone with a job is staying pat. Partners are hoping that an action like this will scare people enough to leave. Where? To become teachers, move back to their home town, start a business, travel, whatever. It doesn't matter. Its "memo" worthy on a number of levels.

As for 84- you're a complete moron and disrespectful to the 12 that got the boot. I've seen lots of really good lawyers go. Who's more qualified- a 6th year or a 2nd year? But who's more expensive? You also can't just fire all the juniors- because there must be some balance. Layoffs for economic reasons matter because when its truly based on economics- then you have partners going to bat for you- calling clients for jobs- or providing stellar recomendations. It matters when you tell prospective employers and you urge them to call your partners because you know they will stand up for you.

People were so pissed about Cadwalader and talking about it like it was such a terrible firm for doing what it did, but just look at the list 28 made...Cadwalader got a bad rap for just doing its layoffs early and quick. Now that it's happening to everyone, no one is calling all those firms horrible, they are getting "praised" for being so up front about their firing. Kinda odd in my opinion.

One...two...three...four...FIVE! FIVE layoffs in December, a ha ha.
- Count Layoffula

why is it "preferable," elie? just because the latest law firms have been doing it doesn't mean there's some reason compelling them to.

Any info on whether layoffs affect Dewey-derived associates or LeBoeuf-derived? How about performance review terminations? How about new partners tba next month? Just food for thought for those who are so sure there's nothing more to the picture than axing incompetent associates.

Q: Dewey LeBouef?

A. No. "We" do not LeBouef. I will be LeBouef'ing myself. Thanks though.

41, how many people have been canned?

These lay offs are economic driven and from what has been going around the firm are the first of many. Performance reviews happened over a month ago and there were some people let go as a result. This opening round is economic. Phased lay offs based on assessment of need are what's expected. D&L like so many other firms has slowed because of the economy. D&L has been losing some very good associates. Great backgrounds and known as great attorneys. Just not enough work to go around. Some are fortunate to find themselves on cases that blew up, others have not. 104 you need some reality in your life kid. Sometimes in law, associates find themselves on better cases or deals based on dumb luck (e.g. case looked big, but got dismissed early) The economy sucks for everyone including biglaw attorneys.

WUSTL alumni are doing well in St. Louis & Kansas firms.

T-20 Stud

i heart wendell willkie.

I find it ironic that D&L announced bonuses and then announced layoffs the next day. How about this ... everyone take a paycut in exchange for job security. Get every firm and every associate and every partner on the same page. Rather than pay associates 160k, roll it back to the 145k days. Rather than bill $500 an hour, lets go back to $450. I'm sure the client will appreciate it. The way I see it, homes cost less than they did 1 year ago. It also costs me 1/2 as much to fill my tank up than it did a year ago. Why not compensate downward and roll back salaries to what they were a year ago. Hmmmm.....