FIRST!

2 - so close and yet so far.

Hugs,
1

Howrey is a motherfucking craptastic TTT comprised of partners that are little better than vultures. What a SHITHOLE of a law firm.

4th

4 - tell us how you really feel

Which firms are they referring to that are rescinding offers?

This is review season at most firms, so the word performance does not ALWAYS need to be put in quotation marks. My firm has cut some dead wood for performance reasons, and believe me they were justified... no associates are complaining--cuz the firm fired the exact people whom the other associates were always complaining about!

We're not firing or laying off lawyers, we're merely outplacing them. They should feel all warm and cozy.

Outplacement? What the feck is that?

whoa is me!

~white person eager for some white folk banter

"Outplacement"? I am glad to hear the firm is not rescinding its offers of inplacement.

Howrey also doesn't do lock-step pay. They instituted some performance based pay system. Why don't you mock them for paying based on merit, Elie. Because if ATL worked that way you would lose 50 pounds.

i stopped calling your mom for "performance" reasons

Seems somewhat uncomplicated:

If the REASON a firm is conducting performance reviews is simply that the firm has perceived a need to thin the ranks of associates due to hard ecnonmic conditions, then these absolutely should NOT be characterized as performance firings.

It make no difference that the fired attorneys are plucked from various practice areas, rather than, say, the real-estate group. Junior associates are totally re-deployable, they don't really have honed skills in any one area.

So sure, you need to get rid of some attorneys, make some spots in the firm to re-deploy some real-estate or hedge fund people? I think it's totally fair to fire the least productive lawyers to make that room.

But it's not due to their performance. It's because the partners have decided they don't want to accept a loss in income, so they want fewer mouths to feed.

14th!

It's not a stealth layoff, and it's not an admitted layoff.

It's a "CYLAYoff" (rhymes with CYA-off)

That's when you fire people for economic reasons but publicly announce to the whole world that they're bad lawyers to Cover Your own A$$.

You're welcome, Elie.

Ask them to provide the names and contact info of the 10 people they forced out in 2006 and 2007.

"This is certainly a new wrinkle to [the] way layoffs have been handled by law firms."

or

This is certainly a new wrinkle to the way law firms have handled layoffs. (active voice--doesn't that sound better?)

Either way, you left a word out.

Seems somewhat uncomplicated:

If the REASON a firm is conducting performance reviews is simply that the firm has perceived a need to thin the ranks of associates due to hard ecnonmic conditions, then these absolutely should NOT be characterized as performance firings.

It make no difference that the fired attorneys are plucked from various practice areas, rather than, say, the real-estate group. Junior associates are totally re-deployable, they don't really have honed skills in any one area.

So sure, you need to get rid of some attorneys, make some spots in the firm to re-deploy some real-estate or hedge fund people? I think it's totally fair to fire the least productive lawyers to make that room.

But it's not due to their performance. It's because the partners have decided they don't want to accept a loss in income, so they want fewer mouths to feed.

Lest they fear the proverbial man with a gun, eating smoked salmon, named louis winthorp III, angry that he has needlessly been fired on xmas eve.

"outplacement"

Whoever invented that word should be shot. The attorneys were fired. "outplace" sounds like they had their offices moved.

Also, if anyone wants to address Howrey's comments on their merits, I found this interesting:

"As in every year, there is a [firing] of some associates based on performance issues. This year, AS IN PREVIOUS YEARS, this involves approximately ten associates and occurs only after an exhaustive evaluation process and review" (emphasis added)

Does Howrey really cut ~10 associates loose at about this time every year?

Agree with 17 above. Also, if they want you to not air their laundry incorrectly, we'd like the class year and practice group for the "outplaced" attorneys.

I'm sure every single person who has gotten fired would like to think they were laid off instead, but in truth, sometimes people just can't do the work. Good for the firms for getting rid of them, so that the rest of us don't have to pick up the slack. In a firm as big as Howrey, ten associates being reviewed out sounds like nothing. Now if it were 50...

I hope the partners who engineered this burn in hell. If you are going to lay people off, at least acknowledge that it is for economics reasons rather than claiming it is performance based. What a**holes.

THE LIST: This list does not include "redeployments," mergers, staff, or staff attorneys.

Announced | Firm | Location | Total | "Review-Based"? | Acknowledged?
1/11/2007 Kenyon & Kenyon US 16 No Yes
10/1/2007 Thacher Proffitt & Wood US 24 No Yes
10/17/2007 Kirkland & Ellis Chicago 6 to 8 Yes No
1/10/2008 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft Charlotte 9 No Yes
1/10/2008 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft NYC 26 No Yes
2/14/2008 Winstead PC Dallas ~3 Yes Yes
2/29/2008 Dechert US 13 No Yes
3/20/2008 Thelen Reid Brown Raysman & Steiner US 26 No Yes
4/4/2008 Dewey & LeBoeuf Jacksonville 10 No Yes
4/4/2008 Dewey & LeBoeuf Hartford 22 No Yes
4/4/2008 Dewey & LeBoeuf Austin 16 No Yes
4/25/2008 Sutherland Asbill & Brennan Atlanta 8 Mix Yes
4/25/2008 Sutherland Asbill & Brennan DC <7 Mix Yes
5/12/2008 Paul Hastings US 22 Yes Yes
5/28/2008 Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal US 37 No Yes
6/5/2008 Blank Rome Philadelphia 6 Yes Yes
6/5/2008 Blank Rome NYC 2 Yes Yes
6/5/2008 Blank Rome DC 1 Yes Yes
6/11/2008 Thacher Proffitt & Wood US 36 No Yes
6/23/2008 Powell Goldstein US <10 No Yes
7/1/2008 Patton Boggs Dallas 4 Yes Yes
7/1/2008 Patton Boggs US 5 Yes Yes
7/14/2008 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LA, SF, San Diego 15 Unk No
7/16/2008 Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman East Coast <10 Unk No
7/30/2008 Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft NYC, Charlotte, London, DC 96 No Yes
8/4/2008 DLA Piper London 1 No Yes
8/6/2008 Sullivan & Worcester Boston & NY 7 Yes No
8/12/2008 Simpson Thacher & Bartlett global 30 Yes No
8/21/2008 Morgan & Finnegan NYC ~4 No Yes
9/22/2008 Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer unknown <5 No Yes
9/25/2008 Heller Ehrman US ~600? No Yes
10/2/2008 Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal US 25 No Yes
10/14/2008 Clifford Chance NYC & DC 20 No Yes
10/20/2008 Dewey & LeBoeuf Charlotte 8 No Yes
10/20/2008 Katten Muchin Rosenman US 21 No Yes
10/21/2008 Jenner & Block US 10 No Yes
10/22/2008 Dechert US 10 to 30 Yes No
10/23/2008 O'Melveny & Myers LA 5 Yes Yes
10/27/2008 White & Case Milan 14 No Yes
10/28/2008 Thelen Reid Brown Raysman & Steiner US ~500? No Yes
10/30/2008 Bell Boyd & Lloyd Chicago 10 No Yes
11/3/2008 McKee Nelson NYC 13 No Yes
11/3/2008 McKee Nelson DC 4 No Yes
11/11/2008 Loeb & Loeb US 8 Yes Yes
11/11/2008 White & Case US, London 70 No Yes
11/12/2008 Moore Van Allen Charlotte 20 No Yes
11/13/2008 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe US 40 No Yes
11/14/2008 Greenberg Traurig NYC unk No No
11/19/2008 Brown Rudnick US 20 No Yes
11/20/2008 Mayer Brown US 33 No Yes
11/20/2008 Squire Sanders US <30 Yes Yes
11/21/2008 Dewey & LeBoeuf NYC 5 to 11 Unk No
11/21/2008 Fried Frank US 15 Yes No
12/1/2008 Fried Frank US 15 Yes No
12/3/2008 Reed Smith UK 11 No Yes
12/4/2008 Proskauer Rose US 35 No Yes
12/4/2008 Dewey & LeBoeuf NY 11 No Yes
12/4/2008 Dewey & LeBoeuf LA 1 No Yes
12/5/2008 Seyfarth Shaw US 30 No Yes
12/10/2008 Pircher Nichols & Meeks LA, Chicago 8 No Yes
12/10/2008 Howrey Unk ~10 Yes Yes

These firms know that when they do this "performance" layoff thing, they instantly become the main places to avoid, right? Law students will be avoiding these places for ten years.

lol at anyone who has to work at Howrey.

25 - if you weren't avoiding Howrey in the first place you have bigger problems.

Does ROD PAMPERS work for Howrey?

Any confirmation regarding layoffs at Baker Botts?

We need to know the number of attorneys fired in the past couple of years for performance reasons to know whether these are really performance related. And even then, I'd expect a slightly higher number this year because in years past, firms needed warm bodies to fill seats. Now, those warm bodies actually need to be somewhat competent.

Same or slightly higher than the past two years = performance related

Anything more than a slight jump = layoffs

Are those laid off for "performance" those who post "first" on every comment board?

I second 23.

Good job #25! But how did you find the time to do all that work? Hmmmm.....

Call it what you want but it seems like a dick-move to me. The problem now is that there is so much bad news, it is hard to keep track and hold some of these firms accountable during recruiting season. Also, it might be a while before law students and laterals can be selective again. The difference between this job contraction versus the one in 2002 is that there are more places in which a historical record of how the firms are (mid)behaving will be available. So, in five years time, assuming the legal economy is in a growth period and a recruit is choosing between Howrey and another tier two/three law firm, they will hopefully come across this post and factor it into their decision-making process.

there's always a mixture of motives for firing somone, I imagine.

hard to parse them out. hard to reverse engineer. Were the lawyers really underperforming? or was it that, the firms tolerance level has changed, due to hard economic conditions??

If the answer to that question (or similar) is even a close call, then call it LAY OFF.

For one, your clients might appreciate learning about that than hearing that your firms HIRES ATTORNEYS WHO DESERVE TO BE FIRED. It's just atmospheric, but they do consider these things (who wants to be affiliated with subpar counsel??)

And your employees will prefer the honesty, and Americans love a struggle and redemption story, but we hate greedy bullshitters.

Of course, if they really truly were performance firings, then that is fine to call it as such. But don't mess with folks around xmas time----

lest ye end up with millions in junk concentrated orange juice futures. --winthrop.

How about calling it getting the right people off the bus and putting the right people on the bus (i.e. restructuring)?

This should definitely be called "the Stranger."

For those of you who are not aware, the stranger is where you sit on your hand until it goes numb, and then you jerk off with it. The outward result is exactly the same - you are still alone and jerking off - but by putting your hand asleep it gives the impression of something different going on.

The application to this in-the-open stealth layoff is obvious. It is a stealth layoff, that has been repackaged by removing the stealth. But, despite the clever adjustments, we are still left with Howry, jerking off alone.

"This year, as in previous years..."

Can we start keeping track of the firms that have honorably acknowledged their economic difficulties and those that have had the fucking nerve to hide behind alleged "performance issues?"

Classic BigLaw management - "I fucked up.....blame an associate."

Is Howrey the place that has some kind of "bootcamp" instead of a summer program?

25--A few years ago I'd agree. But times are so tight, I don't think most law students will be "avoiding" any firms--many of them will just take what they can get. Even if all they can get is a crap-hole like Howrey.

Outplacement? OUTPLACEMENT?!?

Oh my god, how does somebody look you in the face and say "I'm sorry, we've had to outplace you. Please see your way out of this place, thank you."

OUTPLACEMENT?!?!

37,

Way too much information about yourself.

You'll excuse me, but I'm not going to be touching your hands with a ten foot pole.

And you can forget about being hired at my firm.

Old dude
LLB 1956

38: We're already doing it. Look at post #24.

39--Yes.
"At Howrey Bootcamp, the question's moot. Because, rather than whiling away your summer trying restaurants, you'll spend it trying cases."
http://www.howreybootcamp.com/
Assholes.

37 - I love that, it is now the stranger. One problem though: the stealth part has to be putting your hand to sleep. So normal jerking off is laying people off in the open, and this is the stranger because they laid people off in the open while their hand was numb.

37, the opposite of epic fail

16 - "CYLAYoff" is genius. It also allows firms to conduct layoffs without paying severance or allowing these assocs to collect unemployment benefits...which is so uncool.

37, 45,

So does that make these 10 associates the kleenex?

What a shitty firm - they should at least have the balls to acknowledge that Howrey's partners are not able to make it rain and therefore associates need to be laid off. What a scumbag of a law firm.

And why *wouldn't* you do your yearly performance reviews and firing at Christmastime?

over half of the SAs in our region, including me, were no-offered by howrey this past summer for "performance reasons"... we were all given the same BS, as if they thought we wouldnt share the news with each other...howrey is the TTT of TTTs, stay away!

over half of the SAs in our region, including me, were no-offered by howrey this past summer for "performance reasons"... we were all given the same BS, as if they thought we wouldnt share the news with each other...howrey is the TTT of TTTs, stay away!

over half of the SAs in our region, including me, were no-offered by howrey this past summer for "performance reasons"... we were all given the same BS, as if they thought we wouldnt share the news with each other...howrey is the TTT of TTTs, stay away!

Frankly I would prefer jew camp to boot camp. Less probability that I will be "stranger"ing myself on a regular basis.

Worked at Howrey for a few years recently. Don't remember ANY associates EVER gettinng let go for ANY reasons. Plenty of associates left because the place sucks, but none were let go. Every associate I knew who left did so of his/her own accord. As did I.

Working there sucks.

over half of the SAs in our region, including me, were no-offered by howrey this past summer for "performance reasons"... we were all given the same BS, as if they thought we wouldnt share the news with each other...howrey is the TTT of TTTs, stay away!

Worked at Howrey for a few years recently. Don't remember ANY associates EVER getting let go for ANY reason. And there were plenty who should have been fired for performance. Plenty of associates left, of course, because the place sucks, but none were let go. Every associate I knew who left did so of his/her own accord. As did I.

Working there sucks.

can we get a blacklist for students doing OCI next year? howrey should definitely be at the top along with any other firm laying people off for 'performance reasons.'

51, 53, 54--name the region and the hiring partner, why not?? :)

Why on earth would a law student ever choose "bootcamp" over a regular summer experience???????

Indeed, that question is moot, b/c I don't know anyone who would choose the former over the latter.

Also, Howrey (of course) = TTT.

29 NAILED IT.

Howrey Doodee

I would like a special blacklist for firms found guilty of "Strangering." I don't want to be shaking any hands at any of those firms.

I think the lesson is to stay away from any firm that picked up large chunks of Thelen.

Frankly I would prefer jew camp to boot camp. Less probability that I will be "stranger"ing myself on a regular basis.

WHAT OFFICES? I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE EAST COAST. WESTSIDE IS THE BEST SIDE.

Layoffs are ALWAYS performance-based unless there is an across-the board axing of an entire group. Just because someone is good enough to keep around when times are good and business is booming doesn't mean they are when things are slow and resources tight.

65 - its all the same firm, you will be fired its just a matter of time

What are their 1st year associate numbers?

Who is ROD PAMPERS?

Hey Rhubarb-Boy, yeah you, how happy are you that ATL isn't doing performance-based layoffs

it is possible that the range of acceptable associate performance changes significantly during a down economy...

71,

Ya think?

Duh.

65, Ali G, is that you?

24-the Dewey entries from 4/4 are not correct. Those attorneys were given the option of "redeployment" to other offices.

59: I'll just say California

60: Split summers, thats why

What to call it? Not outplacement. How about firing based on performance? Unless there is some evidence not in the article that these firings were pretextual.

Have we gotten to a place where every firing is a "layoff"? (See post 24.)

Last December (i.e. in better times) two of my friends (mid to senior associates) were fired for performance related reasons; the December before that another friend was similarly fired. Thing was, the firings were legit. My friends had complaints about the process and how things got to that point, but not with the ultimate result.

But the firm was KIND. The firings were not made public, even within the office; the associates were provided outplacement services, and they were allowed to keep up the facade (i.e. keep their offices) as long as they needed until they found jobs. So when they left, they looked just like other associates who had stayed long enough to collect their bonuses and then start looking for new jobs. (The firm wasn't being sefless. In those days, it was a law student's job market, and no firm wanted to be pegged with a reputation for firing.)

I think Elie, law students, and the younder associates on this board just have no clue how many people are fired for performance-based reasons even in the good years.

Yes, many firms are probably more willing to drop the axe in this economic climate. They may feel less need to spend time, money, and risk trying to rehabilitate a wayward associate since it's no longer a law student's market. Still, people here (including Elie) need to calm down and stop with the sensationalizing. It's really annoying and juvenile. Plus, I want firms to care what abovethelaw is saying about them. But if blog as a whole starts to sound uninformed and naive, it will lose relevance.

Dont worry guys, all these layoffs will be a thing of the past once President Barack Obama raises taxes on law firm partners in 2009/2010.

Yes We Can

So do we need a separate Count Outplacementula, or can Layoffula technically handle these as well. Man I hope so. That is one witty muppet.

So do we need a separate Count Outplaceyoula, or can Count Layoffula cover these? I certain hope it's the latter. That is one clever muppet.

76 here. My last post wasn't clear. My firm is not Howry. I know no specifics about Howry. My complaint about abovethelaw is more general. But Elie provides no support for any conclusions about what Howry does or does not normally do.

Termilayoffs.

75 - I am assuming that you would have to spend at least the first 8 weeks with Howrey. If that is the case, I stand by my original statement. If you can do a second half at Howrey for less than 8 weeks, I stand corrected. I am pretty sure though that I will be standing by my original statement.

Elie, you might want to look into continuing layoffs at Pillsbury too. I hear work has slowed down further there and they're knocking people off one and two at a time. If it provides some extra motivation, you can pretend that the head of the firm is the Doughboy.

Bull Sh*t-Canned.

If you split with Howrey, you spend the first four weeks in the city where your office is located and two weeks in the DC Metro area for "bootcamp". As long as you don't stab or rape anyone, you get paid a two-week bonus for finishing in "good standing". "Work" for six, get paid for eight, spend the next eight to ten weeks with another firm or in Europe. Bootcamp is kind of ridiculous, but tolerable.

16, It should be "CYAoff."

I heard it was a lot more than 10. Maybe only 10 were outplaced and the rest were stealth fired. Not that I see any distinction.

I think the white folk expression is "woe is me"... not "whoa"

The problem is the label - a "performance layoff" is a black mark on your resume, while a economic layoff is dang, what a tough economic time (or the law firm's own fault). Layoffs are going to happen, but there is no reason to stigmatize the outgoing associates if there were actually economic reasons...

Hey 87,
What is stealth fired versus stealth laid off? And what is wrong with stealth firing? I presume the firee knows he or she has been firedf, and the stealth is a mutual decision. Or have I missed something?

29, that's the word about town, but, personally, no direct confirmation. Word also that other TX firms doing it, just no news on ATL...yet.

14/17 - Howrey is a lit/IP shop. It only has two departments, so redeployment wouldn't be an issue.

FWIW, my significant other is a Howrey alum, and from what I remember, it seems to be pretty standard practice for them to quietly lay off a number of associates each year due to 'performance' factors. Honestly, it's probably worse that they do this regularly than that it's due to economic conditions. It's a side-effect of having a seven-year partnership track - a lot of associates get the boot pretty quickly, and there are a lot of dead weight junior partners.

test

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14/17 - Howrey is a lit/IP shop. It only has two departments, so redeployment wouldn't be an issue.

FWIW, my significant other is a Howrey alum, and from what I remember, it seems to be pretty standard practice for them to quietly lay off a number of associates each year due to 'performance' factors. Honestly, it's probably worse that they do this regularly than that it's due to economic conditions. It's a side-effect of having a seven-year partnership track - a lot of associates get the boot pretty quickly, and there are a lot of dead weight junior partners.

Great comments 76, but this blog lost all relevance some time ago. An entertaining quick read over coffee? Sure. What attorney doesn't get a chuckle listening to the voice of the most naive, entitled, and paranoid of law students/SAs/first years.

But as far as offering insight into happenings in the profession...well, let's just say that the coverage given to events at my firm was so far off base that it was both hilarious and frightening.

-- TTT Partner

I'm not sure I agree with 89. The stealth part is that they don't fire people immediately. They give them a couple months to find a new job while they're still employed at the firm. I think the process is supposed to work in a way that the associate never has to say they were fired and the firm never has to say they let anyone go. I'm not sure if that's how it actually works though. I'm sure I'll find out in the next few months.

As a former Thelen partner, I can vouch for Steve O'Neal's outstanding communications skills. Were it not for the way he kept everyone informed and reassured I am sure that Thelen would have dissolved by now.

why not call it: "Out Canned" or simply "Axed to Leave."

this is howrey do it

Bio of the Year:

http://www.howrey.com/lazerowa/

Apparently, you gotta have the "Esq." on the end of your name to be for real.

Nice work, dude. You're so badass.

88, you're missing on the inside joke. In the UChicago BLSA threads, some black law student mocked the posters for their ""whoa[sic] is me" white folk banter" objecting to the anti-white racial discrimination.

A subsequent poster pointed out that a white law student admitted on her merits would have known the word is spelled "woe."

I assume that no one discredits Howery for firing unproductive attorneys, if that's what's going on.

There are mixed reasons and influences why an associate might be fired.

All I say is that, for a law firm to stigmatize an associate with "your fired b/c you're unqualified," Howery should be QUITE comfortable that, you know, poor work quality was the principal reason, like,

on the down low,

for realz,

no smoke and mirrors.

To me, if Howery's not pretty confident that these samw attorney's would have been fired just the same in decent economic times, or normal times, or slightly better times--how ever you want to articulate the meta theory theory--then Howery should NOT say they were "fired" for being unproductive now, just b/c times are shitty.

WHY?? Because "times" get better and worse, standards for "unproductive" fluxuate, depending on conditions,

But being fired stays on your resume for a long time.

And folks should look out for eachother, and take a lesson from what happened to Duke & Duke this X-mas. wintrhop.

Anyone work or litigate against these jokers? I am not surprised.

ps thank you 95 for correcting me, you're right that Howery's being an essentially two-department firm does change some of my assumptions in prior comments, re redeployment. Winthrop

"Whoa is me" is a Joey Lawrence expression

101,

He's from GULC, need we say more??

At my firm, they let a first year (2007) go in Oct. because of "performance reasons" despite the person having a "great attitude and strong work ethic," according to the supervising partners. They said the first year just wasn't "getting it" and would have had such bad reviews that they were doing her a favor by letting her go, even though she had not received any real negative feedback prior to this occasion.

Firms over use performance-based firings in poor economic times because a given associate is just in a practice group that slowed down. Then, those who are let go have their departure conflated with true under performers who were canned in good times.

How is this explained to clients? Y

ou bill a fifth year out at $500 for a few years, your client pays its bills on time, then you tell the client, sorry, they weren't worth their billing rate?

Have some class and business sense.

Haters: please stop it. Please do not blather on about "third-tier" firms just because you did not get a job offer or were previously -- politely -- asked to leave. If a third-tier firm doesn't want you, I guess that makes you a less-than-third-tier attorney, huh?

Seriously, though, comments from teenagers, jokers and imbeciles aside: what is wrong with having a very limited (10 people) reduction in the less-competent workforce, while adding a significant (40+ lawyers) amount of people with a proven track record from Thelen? Sounds like good business practice to me.

This is not the government, where deadweight is maintained forever, until the beloved pension finally kicks in. This is a business -- we're all in the business of law -- and why should a firm not lay off underperforming workers, especially in times like these, where the future is not necessarily so bright or clearly predictable? You would not complain about a non-law corporation doing the same thing.

Oh, and #95 -- Howrey is NOT a "two department" shop "w/ lit and IP," but was founded on an *antitrust* platform, which it maintains to this day. GCR (Global Competition Review) has named it #1 firm years in a row. So, to be clear, it's a three-department shop, if you will: AT, IP, and Global Litigation.

Haters: please stop it. Please do not blather on about "third-tier" firms just because you did not get a job offer or were previously -- politely -- asked to leave. If a third-tier firm doesn't want you, I guess that makes you a less-than-third-tier attorney, huh?

Seriously, though, comments from teenagers, jokers and imbeciles aside: what is wrong with having a very limited (10 people) reduction in the less-competent workforce, while adding a significant (40+ lawyers) amount of people with a proven track record from Thelen? Sounds like good business practice to me.

This is not the government, where deadweight is maintained forever, until the beloved pension finally kicks in. This is a business -- we're all in the business of law -- and why should a firm not lay off underperforming workers, especially in times like these, where the future is not necessarily so bright or clearly predictable? You would not complain about a non-law corporation doing the same thing.

Oh, and #95 -- Howrey is NOT a "two department" shop "w/ lit and IP," but was founded on an *antitrust* platform, which it maintains to this day. GCR (Global Competition Review) has named it #1 firm years in a row. So, to be clear, it's a three-department shop, if you will: AT, IP, and Global Litigation.

110/111,

What makes you think that I even bothered to waste me time on obtaining an offer from Howrey. That's one hell of an assumption, bro.

Howrey = TTT

-GULC 2L, with much better employment prospects than Howrey.

I like how, rather than listing bar admissions, Howrey lists admissions to "Courts and other adjudicative bodies" on attorney bios. It's actually sort of surprising at an IP firm, as they can't list the PTO under that heading but firms can (and do) list it as a bar admission.

...douches

May I suggest we call it a "MysTTTal"

Firms should not be able to fire associates for performance reasons, ever. It's un-American.

Will they get a gift bag on the way out?
http://www.bitterlawyer.com/index.php/columns_detail_comment/holiday_gift_bag_giveaway/?cat_id=12

Mystal,

When you place a call to Howrey to ask whether they are matching the market in their severance package, be sure to also inquire in which previous years they laid off 10 attorneys.

110,

The question is whether these associate were "less-competent."

Even a TTT such as Howrey has relatively stringent hiring practices. Perhaps an attorney that is less competent at writing memos, but likes to flirt with the partners, didn't get cut. We aren't sure.

I know what you should call this, "Bulls**t." "Lying" would also be appropriate.

It'd be great if THE LIST could list which firms fired first years. That just seems pretty harsh.

It's way more than 10. More like 30-40. Ruyak is too busy splashing his tanning salon visage and hairpiece all over the media to concentrate on competent management. Actually, that goes for most of the executive committee.

Just counting the days until this failed experiment reaches its miserable, gut-wrenching conclusion. Otherwise, I'm optimistic.

--Resigned T-50 Lateral 3Y

Just wanted to give a shout out to my love at Howrey who I know will be reading this post. Hi WF!!!

Just wanted to give a shout out to my love at Howrey who I know will be reading this post. Hi WF!!!

121, a friend had told me that it was 30 as well. 30 at one time is not performance based, 10 at one time could be.

110 - there is no problem with firing people for performance or other reasons. The problem is that you are going out of your way to publicly brand these poor 10 guys as underperforming. There are many reasons that people don't work out, and some of those reasons may relate to who they are working with. And lord knows biglaw is not for everyone.

By publicly announcing your outplacements, you have made it much more difficult for these people to find other positions during an especially difficult time. And if you don't care about them, you should care about yourself. At my firm, referrals from alumni represents a significant amount of business.

Count Layoffula, where are you?! TEN!...

Is it time to start the Howrey deathwatch?

First time comment:

Should First year associates "worry" about layoffs?

Since we have barely worked to show our true performance/ability?

So who are the ten? Any from Howrey SF?

i got an offer from Howrey during my 1L year. Id signed up for an OCI though id never heard of them. Ive still never heard much about them - they should really go out and make some money o be a west side gangsa like mself. Thug lige 445798

That "Stranger" thing is from a movie. Can't remember which one. It is going to bug me for the rest of the day.

129,

If by first year, you do not mean in your stub year (did not start working this past September), then yes. If in your stub year, probably not. If it was a problem, they would have pushed back your start date. Firms that would lay off stub years are in serious serious trouble. But first years, yes, happens, doesn't matter if you haven't had a chance to show your true ability.

132 - Is it a movie about awesome new names for unneccessarily sneaky and somewhat masterbatory layoff techniques?

-37

There are lawyers at Howrey (and at other firms) who are seriously underperforming in terms of the quality of their work (and, as a result, their billables, since people are reluctant to give them work). Why should they be kept on?

A firm really burns its bridges by publicizing that the departures were for performance. They just created a bunch of disgruntled ex-employees.

Aren't the better firms under the gentlemen's rule -- keeping the reason for departure quiet so the person leaves without losing face and the firm has a little extra goodwill? It's free to be nice to our fellow professionals, right? Professional courtesy, even if not everyone can cut it in a certain firm or practice area. Young attorneys may need some trial and error to find the right fit. A lousy young corporate attorney can blossom and mature in another field or employment setting.

Turn it into a chance to promote the firm as a professional collegial place to fellow members of the bar, potential referral business and potential clients. Just think of the potential billables for even one incoming project gained.

129, if you were entering the job market relatively soon, yes, I would worry about layoffs. Firms lose money on first-years, or, at least, first-years aren't nearly as profitable 3+ year associates. Since you're a 1L, though, hang in there, because the market might turn around by the time you get out of school. I suspect you won't get paid quite as much as we do now, but I think there will be opportunities once things shake out.

Guys - it's seriously 30-40 attorneys that are being given 3 months severannce. Almost all upper level too, which is incredible.

which Howrey offices are being impacted?

Everyone- I just learned that the 10 fired associates went to UPenn State. We can all go back to work now. It all makes sense.

These comments are ridiculous. A law firm, like any other company or business should be free to fire or layoff or outplace or whatever employees who are underperforming and are a drain on firm resources. People recognize that and so they say the issue is with announcing the reason for the letting go as performance-based saying they could have kept it a secret. Ignoring, of course, that if they had ATL would have reported something like "Howrey Cans a Dozen Associates and Tries to Keep it Secret." Then tons of comments about how Howrey is laying off people, not being up-front about it, and trying to sweep it under the rug. Ever thought that the vitriol directed at firms on this board, and the rampant creation and spreading of rumors by the site and the commentors *might* have something to do with why firms have to explain what they are doing to the masses?

UPennState = Mustache Ride University

124 - Really? We all know you. douchetard

What they need to look at is their overpaid underperforming support staff\managment that are sitting around doing nothing but collecting a check.

144--
You forgot to mention how they like to stuff themselves out of boredom such that they turn into fat pigs. I could have half of my secretary and still have a fat, over-entitled dead weight on my work day.

are people getting compensated for postponements or rescinded offers?

I just found out I am postponed until Oct instead of the May date the offer letter sates -- (I am a fall graduate taking the Feb Bar). But I am getting NO compensation

are people getting compensated for postponements or rescinded offers?

I just found out I am postponed until Oct instead of the May date the offer letter sates -- (I am a fall graduate taking the Feb Bar).

146, no you get squat. Where are you going? This happened to me at Thelen. i wish you better luck.

Howrey is laying off people left right and center in all their offices. Chicago, Houston and DC partners have been told to "leave and find another home" but this is usual business for Howrey but 2008 had more cast aways. And they are laying off associates right now in the 2nd round of after holidays layoffs. It is all done in a stealthy sleezy way that only Howrey knows how to do and has perfected. They will never come out and announce the countless layoffs. Watch the Howrey webiste and how the lawyer count dwindles in each office. They needed to make room for the Thielen folks and that means cleaning house. Howrey is always looking to find the next best thing. The DC partners would put their mothers out to pasture for this. They are and always will be the drudge of the legal community. They have no loyalty to their staff or lawyers.

Howrey is laying off people left right and center in all their offices. Chicago, Houston and DC partners have been told to "leave and find another home" but this is usual business for Howrey but 2008 had more cast aways. And they are laying off associates right now in the 2nd round of after holidays layoffs. It is all done in a stealthy sleezy way that only Howrey knows how to do and has perfected. They will never come out and announce the countless layoffs. Watch the Howrey webiste and how the lawyer count dwindles in each office. They needed to make room for the Thielen folks and that means cleaning house. Howrey is always looking to find the next best thing. The DC partners would put their mothers out to pasture for this. They are and always will be the drudge of the legal community. They have no loyalty to their staff or lawyers.

Howrey is laying off people left right and center in all their offices. Chicago, Houston and DC partners have been told to "leave and find another home" but this is usual business for Howrey but 2008 had more cast aways. And they are laying off associates right now in the 2nd round of after holidays layoffs. It is all done in a stealthy sleezy way that only Howrey knows how to do and has perfected. They will never come out and announce the countless layoffs. Watch the Howrey webiste and how the lawyer count dwindles in each office. They needed to make room for the Thielen folks and that means cleaning house. Howrey is always looking to find the next best thing. The DC partners would put their mothers out to pasture for this. They are and always will be the drudge of the legal community. They have no loyalty to their staff or lawyers.

Howrey is laying off people left right and center in all their offices. Chicago, Houston and DC partners have been told to "leave and find another home" but this is usual business for Howrey but 2008 had more cast aways. And they are laying off associates right now in the 2nd round of after holidays layoffs. It is all done in a stealthy sleezy way that only Howrey knows how to do and has perfected. They will never come out and announce the countless layoffs. Watch the Howrey webiste and how the lawyer count dwindles in each office. They needed to make room for the Thielen folks and that means cleaning house. Howrey is always looking to find the next best thing. The DC partners would put their mothers out to pasture for this. They are and always will be the drudge of the legal community. They have no loyalty to their staff or lawyers.

Howrey is laying off people left right and center in all their offices. Chicago, Houston and DC partners have been told to "leave and find another home" but this is usual business for Howrey but 2008 had more cast aways. And they are laying off associates right now in the 2nd round of after holidays layoffs. It is all done in a stealthy sleezy way that only Howrey knows how to do and has perfected. They will never come out and announce the countless layoffs. Watch the Howrey webiste and how the lawyer count dwindles in each office. They needed to make room for the Thielen folks and that means cleaning house. Howrey is always looking to find the next best thing. The DC partners would put their mothers out to pasture for this. They are and always will be the drudge of the legal community. They have no loyalty to their staff or lawyers.

I absolutely agree with the comments #150,151,152
and 153.

I absolutely agree with the comments #150,151,152
and 153.

I absolutely agree with the comments #150,151,152
and 153.