thirdsty

thirdsty

"....we thank you for your professionalism and dedication." [since we have shown you neither.]

thirdsty

sheepsy

do i really care about writing the word 'first' on above the law? hmm..i guess since i just clicked and found out that someone else already did then i guess i wont get that satisfaction. I always wondered how important that was and why people did it, but I guess thats for people trying to overcompensate for being on a lower tier with their school/firm..not sure.

I hate you sheepsy.
I hate you so much.

ATL, make yerself useful. Article/interview on what options arise on peeps about to/currently defaulting on student loans.

pleez/thnks

7 -- how odd. I mean, you checked to see if you could be first. So obviously you care.

RC: In a holler killed with a gas bong.

For all those suckers who picked Sidley over Kirkland, this one's for you!

7, what are you trying to say? Are you racist?

I said: "What what, in the butt"
I said: "What what, in the butt"
I said: "What what, in the butt"
I said: "What what, in the butt"

You wanna do it in my butt, in my butt?
You wanna do it in my butt, in my butt?
You wanna do it in my butt, in my butt?
Let's do it in the butt,
OKAY!

Amen #4. In other words, "we hope you'll handle this better than we did."

Wait so I only get to keep my six figure salary and not get shown to the door in a lay off?

The legal industry is going down in flames.

Sidley AusTTTin

The closing, full version:
On behalf of all of our partners[/analrapists], we thank you[, our powerbottom associates,] for your professionalism [while taking it in the two spot] and dedication[ to taking it in the two spot].

They let you nail sheep in cubicles at Sidley because it is so cold.

Take me for a pony ride!

What about everything going on at V&E?

"Sometime during the first quarter of next year" = You'll hear from us on 3/31/09 at which time we'll be telling you that "we're keeping the salary freeze intact for the remainder of FY 09' however we are confident we will be able to resume regular salary increases for FY 10'.

Sidley is soooooo TTT now!

Latham > SidleyTTT

It stinks like barnyard sex in here.

Latham > Sidley AusTTTin

21 -- nothing is going on at v&e. what are you talking about?

I heard something was going on at V&E. That's it. That's all I heard. I am sorry.

Latham > Sidley AusTTTin

Sidley NY is a cesspool of Fordham grads. What did their associates expect?

28 -- someone called you and said, "Something is going on at V&E. Goodbye." No details? Not even a hint?

I thought Latham went under.

Sidley NY is a cesspool of Fordham grads. What did their associates expect?

I don't work at Sidley, but this doesn't seem all that bad. Maybe they normally would have made the announcement by now but still need some time to work it through with the partnership (something that won't get done until next week at the earliest)?

Is Keith Fink an extortionist? GULCer? Both?

FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's downhill after this boys and girls....whose got next?

Who is the next ATL post regarding salary freezes?

MoFo anyone?

Anyone?

I never met an attorney at either Latham or Sidley that wasn't a complete prick so I'd rather work at neither.

V&E, in probably one of the worst times to do so, has been scaling back its litigation group in a massive way. Losing partners, showing associates the door, etc.

I would love to know which of my colleagues is stupid enough to have sent this to ATL.

He/she should be summarily fired.

Maybe you don't get it dumb f$ck, but the reason the firm sent out this memo now is not because they "historically provided information..." Historically, my salary just went up without any announcement at all. The purpose of this announcement is to signal the market that if more firms freeze salaries, Sidley will in fact follow. It was important to send the memo out today because once firms start paying 2009 salaries, it's too late to freeze salaries. You a$$hat just helped the firm signal the market. I hope they fire you and give the rest of us a pay raise.

Just so we are clear for the next time you think up a brilliant plan like this: Bonus news splattered over the net generally helps associate compensation at places like Sidley, where the unwritten rule is to match the market (even at firms with higher PPP). Bad news like news of a salary freeze, layoffs or cost cutting in the cateteria doesn't help associates. The next time you sit on a firm email that you feel like ejaculating to ATL - stop and think whether that's actually a good idea.

A fellow Sidley associate.

V&E, in probably one of the worst times to do so, has been scaling back its litigation group in a massive way. Losing partners, showing associates the door, etc.

Where da Kirkland trolls at?

So, when salary increases resume in 2010 (for some of these firms) what are the chances that you'll be restored to where you would have been without a salary freeze? Meaning, will they go ahead and bump you up two years to compensate?

38 -

Kids at my high school used to ejaculate emails to ATL all the time - no big deal.

42, my guess would be 0% chance. I can't imagine them having that kind of cash on hand AND pay regular bonuses.

Men: Skadden

Boys: everyone else.

#38 = genius.

SHUT DOWN ATL....OR STOP FUCKING POSTING ABOUT SALARY FREEZES!!!!!!!!!

I was laid off, but they kept my sheep.

Many a commenter have illustrated the ATL community about sheep nailing. I would like some thoughful insights on goat nailing. Is it better? Are they tighter? Is it a cheaper option in this economy?

I'd like to hear more about V&E, if anybody knows anything...

I guess this now means we can say this:

Chicago to no raises!

Boo.

38 Yeah, because ATL is the only place on the web where this happens...Sidley partners sit around waiting to see what others do and if it weren't for ATL they'd never know. You fucking Moron

Elie, you are a fear-monger. Cease all of this yellow journalism and find something legitimate to post--and PROOFREAD!

Yes, let's stop and think for a second how stupid it is to post on here about every salary freeze.

I thought it kind of sucked that I would only get a $5k raise at my V70 firm after not making my hours. Feeling pretty alright now, thanks Sidley, Latham et. al.

38 is right. Byebye raises for any associates in Chicago.

Sheepsy to 190!

"I'd still rather work at Sidley than Latham."
hahahaha. Sidley sucks monkey balls, and that tipster probably got rejected from Latham anyway.

why no post on the layoffs at Kilpatrick Stockton?

40 - not true. Transactional has/had been growing faster relative to lit (no surprise),. but that doesn't mean they were "scaling back" lit. V&E has 122 Lit partners and it's 38% of total revenue (higher than STB and the same as MOFO and Latham and only 6% points less than Gibson). So that's not "scaling back." V&E just beat Wachtell is the Hexion case! But maybe wachtell is "scaling back" their Lit practice too.

And at least V&E is in the energy sector..

38-
don't be foolish. BigLaw partners know what's going on at their peer firms without reading ATL all day. Get real.

Hey!
Have you heard... the bird is the word?

I would rather work at Munger. I hunger for Munger.

Who stole the cookies from the SkaddenDC cookie jar?

Is it racist to point at random black people on the street and yell "Macaca!" ??

51 = partner who sucks at life.

41 -- What more is there for the Kirkland trolls to say? Sidley has stopped trying to compete with them.

what's going on at baker botts?

Do Kirkland and Sidley associates fight in alleys West Side Story style?

Macaca!!!!!!!!

59-
Talk to me about V&E. I'm going to summer there, and I purposely chose it because I assumed that for several reasons, they would be relatively well-positioned (e.g., energy focus, small parter to associate ratio). But this isn't the first I've heard of this litigation issue

59: you are obviously delusional, a VE hack, or perhaps the Houston office is a complete anamoly within the firm. There are VE litigators all over town who have been kicked out one way or another--including partners who were told to up their rates significantly or leave. They left because their clients would not pay the rates. Say what you will, but I know too many of those litigators.

61: Everybody knows that the bird is the word.

A-well-a bird, bird, b-bird's the word.

Everyone who talks about how awesome Munger is seems to forget that they took forever to move to $160k from $145k, and that their bonuses suck.

Nice to be paid in prestige points, though.

i'm sure sidley bankruptcy associates are thrilled by this. they're getting killed with work and their compatriots at other firms (skadden, weil and K&E) are getting paid better

I wouldn't count on it being over in the Chicago market. Sidley's not the leader they think they are when it comes to salary and bonus announcements.

Christ, ATL's been completely overrun by either bored students on break or still clueless juniors. Wake the fuck up!!! 38 has a point but guess what? Can't have it both ways - try and inevitably, you get screwed every which way. 1) don't understand why everyone is so surprised about salary freeze by any firm. 2) associates are not privy to pace and status of a firm's fee collection, and there's only so much partners can do to get clients to pay - uh - by tomorrow??? 3) many associates were hurting for hours this year and it's highly unlikely that 2009 will be that much better. So why, oh why, should all associates still get raises and bonuses? You may be a year "older" but not necessarily "wiser" if you twiddled your thumbs, read ATL and banged sheep for most of this year. Damn thankful that I don't see this crap from our juniors.

It's not stupid to post about pay freezes when, once things settle out, there are five or six firms that have frozen salaries, and many others that haven't. It's up to the unfortunates working at the cheap firms to point out the differences, once they're identified, and use places like ATL to publicize the issue in order to, hopefully, get their firms to pay them as much as their peers, either by shaming them (ha), or by negatively impacting their recruiting (at least at firms that are still hiring...).

Heh.

I think I like my little regional firm where the partners froze their draws for 2009 rather than freeze associate salaries.

I hunger for the Munger like Mystal hungers for small children covered in chocolate and sprinkles.

70 -- oh, if you mean cutting underperforming partners, then maybe you're right. That doesn't mean that they're "scaling back" Lit; it may mean that they're not gonna allow top partners to carry other partners who cannot command premium rates. Big deal. Sounds like sound mgmt to me.

You were on this board awhile ago (before the crisis) complaining about the same thing. So this isn't news.

BITCH SPREAD THE BUTT CHEEKS SO I CAN SMELL THE JUICY INSIDES!

75 any moron who boasts about his seniority is either a douche, an imposter, or just a stupid older junior who thinks mere age makes you better.

51 - you are clearly the idiot that leaked this. How do I know? Because you are the only moron who would not understand that when I wrote "The next time you sit on a firm email that you feel like ejaculating to ATL - stop and think whether that's actually a good idea." it was intended to apply to ALL internet websites, not just ATL. But, if you are aware of other websites on the net where partners from various law firms share information about associate salaries, please tell us where that is. And yes, ATL has, in recent years, become the primary (although clearly not the only) source for updated salary information for partners and associates alike - whether you like it or not.

Is it possible to catch AIDS from posting on this site?

There might be a few firms that raise salaries, but they will be the exception to the rule. Every day brings at least one more freeze announcement, leaving the remaining firms with even more cover to freeze salaries. It's no picnic to remain at the same salary, and when FICA and 401(k) withholding kick in with the new year, most associates will see a significant dip in take-home pay. But it is far better than the alternative, which is firm implosion.

79: I'm comfortable at another firm and have never worked for VE (thankfully), so I'm not complaining. I'm simply stating a fact that VE used to have a sizable litigation practice in Houston and now has shown numerous (profitable) partners the door along with associates. I'm not sure if you're on firm management or simply the marketing director (I'm guessing the latter).

Regardless, VE has a ton of energy transactional work if that's the direction it wants to take, then fine. But, don't pretend it's got a vibrant litigation practice in Texas when it doesn't. That's like Fulbright saying it's leading in transactions.

Give a little whistle...

82 - do you really think partners rely on websites to learn salary/bonus info for other firms? They TALK to each other, dumbass. The members of various executive committees see each other in all kinds of contexts - salary freezes at one firm aren't a surprise to the executive committees of that firm's peers.

Let me get this strait, it was ok for ATL to splatter news about market raises and bonuses during the boom times, because that meant better chances that firms who "pay market" would follow, but not its not ok for ATL to post news about salary freezes? Unfortunatley, I don't think we can have it both ways...

"Sometime during the first quarter of next year" means, in other words, --
"You'll hear from us on 3/31/09 at which time we'll be telling you that 'We're keeping the salary freeze intact for the remainder of FY 09' however we are confident we will be able to resume regular salary increases for FY 10. If the economy does not improve by the end of 2009, we foresee the strong possibility that we will be rolling back the salary levels to pre-2001.'"

Be prepared for a white knuckle ride in 2009.

Happy New Year!

I'd rather work ANYWHERE than Sidley. The people there are miserable scum and treat each other as such.

64 -- Yes, and you will probably get your pale skinny ass whooped on.

85 -- well, maybe V&E should hire you if you're such a genius. Because if the partners were in fact so "profitable" (not sure how in the HELL you would know one way or the other), then why did v&e push them out? Spite? To sabotage the firm? B/c they hate profit? I have another hypothesis: THEY WEREN'T PROFITABLE!

Maybe you should start your own law firm consultancy and teach firms not to fire profitable partners -- it's groundbreaking theory!

By the way, "The Lawyer" (the UK rag), just came out with the biggest Lit firms by revenue, % revenue, # partners, etc. V&E was on it but BB was not. So if v&e is scaling back Lit, where does that leave BB? Divorce law? B/c BB barely does transactional work!

Sidley was way too tied up with Merrill. They were too dependent and are gonnna be hurting for a while.

Just like Latham was too dependent on cap markets and leveraged finance.

Just like CWT was too dependent on CDOs, etc.

If you haven't noticed, many better managed firms have annoucned the regular salary increases. When the tide goes out, you see who is swimming naked.

82--Firms talking to each other about salary freezes = illegal cartel behavior. Monitoring public information to stay in line with the market is what firms do.

how is dpw even staying in business w/o any ipos?

94 - nope. Ask someone on your firm's exec committee. They talk. They all talk.

Is it gay to read this blog for entertainment?

wow. sidley and l&w associates are now making far less than skadden, kirkland, and jones day associates in chicago.

92-
I've long noticed that V&E gets little attention on ATL. I would like to think this is because the firm is healthy and everyone there is hard at work, billing away and kicking ass. That's my hope, anyway. Thoughts?

97,

Yes, you're gay.

Salary Freeze list?

ORRICK PAY FREEZE ANNOUNCED YESTERDAY http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2008/12/orrick-freezes-associate-salaries.html

87 - are you the same poster as 51?

I can't believe I am still responding to you, but you are clearly my dumbest colleague and so I suppose I have some responsibility to educate you. Let me be clear. Of course the news would have eventually found its way around, but it would have been AFTER many other firms would have started paying the higher salaries. You are not seriously suggesting that managing partners call each other up immediately after the management committee to inform other law firms of its new payscale, are you?

And no, I am not saying we should shut down ATL - ATL should print whatever news comes its way, but why oh why do we have to provide it with news, if the dissemination of that news would be against our own self-interest is beyond me - just beyond me.

94 - nope. take an anti-trust seminar.

v&e gets no attention because it is a TTT that most associates on this blog have never heard of and will never consider working at.

94, aka Captain 1L, I pity the day when you become a real lawyer.

Is V&E Venable or a different firm altogether?

Can you tell time 102?

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/12/nationwide_pay_freeze_watch_or.php

I am not gay, I just checked.

81: appears that you're the moron - mainly for assuming that I wasn't a junior. Oh yeah, what boasting? What's there to boast about in this sucks-for-all economy?? douche

105 = fulbright associate and v&e reject. Or, he's a NY associate who will be laid off next week.

V&E is a perfect firm for top students who wanna live in Texas. They have their own little niche and market, which are pretty profitable. Their rpl is higher than orrick's, hogan's, sidley's, and OMM's. Not too bad for Texas.

HEY 103/38 this is 51 I'm not a partner, I don't work at sidley, in fact i'm not even a lawyer...I'm simply somebody who is totally gay (see 97).

107-

Yes, V&E = Venable.

112 - nice!

93: When the tide goes out, you see who is swimming naked.

I love this phrase. Thanks for using it.

(closing office door and thinking about the tide going out)

105-
I had 160,000 reasons to work there, beeeyotch

How do you write schlong?

Is it gay to read this blog while nailing a SHEEP in the 2 hole?

all tttogettther now sidley austttin ladies and gentttlemen

113 - Wrong
107 - V&E = Vinson & Elkins

Latham, Orrick, Sidley = poors. Totally downvoting them in the Vault survey!

120 - wrong - V&E= Vagina Dentata

82/103

Did you consider that leakers of negative salary/bonus information could be partners?

-- Not 87/51

I would hate to have leaky partners at my firm. That would be disgusting.

BREAKING NEWS

103 was just caught hot karling 51 in one of Sidley's corridors. Both suspects were reported to the authorities.

Is it gay to read this blog while nailing a SHEEP in the 2 hole?

to those questioning the wisdom of sharing the Sidley memo: it is almost always better for a person with less power (e.g., associate) to have more information about the market in general. first, as others have noted, the partners likely have means of discovering this information. second, without this information, the partners at any particular firm could attempt to do something even worse - in good times, this means forcing a firm to give market raises/bonuses (or to try to exceed), but in bad times, this could be attempts to give no bonus/salary reductions.

Can anyone recommend a book or article about basic law firm economics and business practices for a 2L to read over winter break?

LOL@"V&E is a perfect firm for top students who wanna live in Texas"

128 I had a great suggestion, shamefully the book is only appropriate to read over the summer.

127, titcr. It's not about partner access to information (they know all), it's about associates having the information to make informed decisions about where to work. Ever since the old Greedy Associates site, associates have benefitted from the sharing of compensation / layoff / partnership information that otherwise might remain secret.

Why would anyone want to live in Texas? Because they're racists and it's socially acceptable there? I can't think of anything else.

129 -- not everyone wants to love in NYC. you can be pretty happy on 160k in dallas or houston. some of us don't like NYC bc it is a has-been city. requiring $3000 for a one bedroom, massive state/city taxes, smells like garbage 90% of the time, too cold in the winter, too hot in the summer. 80% of the land area is one giant housing project, the other 20% was propped up by a financial system that has collapsed onto itself.

Last I checked, V&E also has offices in New York and D.C.

@128 Look in your Local Library for "Law Firm Economics and Business Practices for Dummies"

Please have a 5 page single spaced review for ATL by Friday.

SIDLEY IS FOR GIANT GAYS

129 -- not everyone wants to love in NYC. you can be pretty happy on 160k in dallas or houston. some of us don't like NYC bc it is a has-been city. requiring $3000 for a one bedroom, massive state/city taxes, smells like garbage 90% of the time, too cold in the winter, too hot in the summer. 80% of the land area is one giant housing project, the other 20% was propped up by a financial system that has collapsed onto itself.

people who keep dissing places like texas while defending NYC and SF sound like idiots -- NYC is burning down and CA is virtually bankrupt. But at least you have Broadway!

V&E only hires the whites.

Most Sidley associates I have met in Chicago think they are a gift to the legal profession. I hope their salaries get frozen.

If you bash Dallas, you are a gay man. Period.

I love NYC, but Dallas is second to none in restaurants, bars, women, and sports. Again, bash Texas, bash Dallas = homosexual male.

A heterosexual male would never try to prop up a city as superior to another solely because he likes musicals, and museums.

138-
Is Ron Kirk white? Last time I checked, he's not.

Uh, Dallas is second to a lot of places in restaurants, bars, women, and sports (?). Texas is just a terrible, terrible place to live / visit / flyover. Do you see tourists coming from Europe and East Asia in droves to visit... dammit, I don't even know a single attraction in Dallas I can make fun of. To see a Stars game?

There's a reason people flock to New York from all over the world, in the exact same way they avoid Texas. Take George Bush back and leave, please.

Ron Kirk is a figment of your imagination and is offended by your statement. You, 141, are a racist.

Compare the Michelin guide for NYC to the Michelin guide for Houston. Oh, wait, hold on...

I think Dallas experienced a renaissance in the 1980s. Then Victoria Principal got old.

144 -- Who cares about tires in Houston. You sir, are an idiot.

Texas is such a crappy place that its residents need to justify their living choice through promoting the state anonymously on blogs and putting down other places (NYC).

It's telling that you never see people from San Diego justifying why they live there and bashing NYC on the Internet.

146=EPIC FAIL

In matters of cuisine, at least.

@144 Spot On
@146 I can't wait for the 10 other comments about how you're an idiot because you don't know the difference between an eating guide and a tire company. Nobody gets humor on here.

142 -- exactly. these people VISIT VISIT VISIT NYC. nobody except bankers and banker-slave prestige-whore lawyers (who think cravath is prestigious b/c they hire 160 summers instead of 170) wanna live there. i'll enjoy my 4000 sq ft house in dallas, which is a great place to LIVE, and VISIT NYC as much as i want, while free riding on your 50% taxes to support the stuff i go there to enjoy a few time a year. sucker.

142

And you get to wear a 10 gallon cowboy hat and drive a pickup truck that you can't drive like shit when there's an ice storm.

To those bashing Dallas - I am a NY prestige-whore lawyer, but I do like visiting Texas, at least once every few years. It is fun to see a "real" rodeo in Ft. Worth (where even the audience wears cowboy hats without irony), the bar-b-q is fun, and it is an interesting cultural experience to go to a "regular" store and see a huge gun section. The Alama is also cool in San Antonio.

Eagle (f/k/a Eagle Scout)

Plus texas makes BBQ with beef instead of pork...fucking savages.

133 - "[NYC] smells like garbage 90% of the time"

Why do people who don't live in NYC say this? It is simply not true.

Every southern/western city I've been to has some horrible smell related to industrial pig rendering, or some other godawful agricultural stank.

147 -

Sorry, but track the posts re: NYC v. Texas (or Dallas). It always starts with people comparing NYC offices of some major firm to Texas (or Dallas) offices of the same major firm. , or comparable/competing firms. You then get the opening salvo from the nuevo-douche junior associate NYC crowd bashing Texas.

I don't live in NYC, or Texas. I love visiting both. They both have their own distinct culture and personality. If we are talking about permanent living arrangements, there are pros and cons for both cities.

But, again, if you bash Dallas, or Texas, and live in NYC...you are a gay man (or closet homosexual). Period. End of story. Start to cope instead of hate. Women, sports, entertainment. It's all there in Texas.

If you still hate, accept who you are.

- 140

152 -- All of those things (rodeo, BBQ, cowboy hats, gun stores) are exactly why nobody sane should EVER go to Texas. If I want to see an animal larger than a squirrel, I'll go to the zoo. If I want to see someone in a cowboy hat... no, no, check that, I'd never want to see someone in a cowboy hat. BBQ? Are you serious? You would travel to a different state to eat disgusting food in order to satisfy your meat cravings when you can just go to Brooklyn to eat at Luger's?

If I'm looking for a gritty experience, I can always hang out in the Bronx (and do, from time to time, at crappy dive bars). If I ever have to see someone in a cowboy hat or use the word "Jesus" as anything other than an explitive, I'm leaving immediately.

*****************************************
BREAKING NEWS - SKADDEN ANNOUNCES OPENING OF NEW OFFICE IN BISMARK, NORTH DAKOTA. FIRM CHAIRPERSON STATES "WE NEEDED SOME PLACE TO PUT ALL OF OUR ASSOCIATES FROM DC."
*****************************************

In which sports does Texas dominate? Certainly not professional football.

155 - Sorry, you're wrong. "Women, sports, entertainment. It's all there in Texas." Sorry, it isn't. Texas doesn't have the Garden or the Yankees, which is really all you ever need to see as far as sports go. Women? Sorry, no; I'll pass on the chubby chipper blonde girls who drink beer and eat BBQ. And entertainment? Do you have any idea how many strip clubs / night clubs / bars / music venues there are in the five boroughs? And you know what you'll never hear in any of them? COUNTRY MUSIC.

Sorry; there's never any need to cross the Hudson.

I heard Tony Romo just fumbled again.

There's country music here. That's the thing about the City, there's something for everyone. I think that is generally what most of the people I know who don't like about NYC don't like about it. They like Burger King, they like things their way. And hey, that's cool. Just don't go around bad mouthing my town, and kick the shit off your boots before coming in.

I think I've heard rhinestone cowboy in scores a few times...

Why are you asshats ranting about NYC vs. Texas? I just want to know some substantive info about V&E. All of you need to grow up. I am talking about a career here.

140 again, to address some comments:

156 - the Jesus thing was hilarious, I can't hate on your post, although I disagree with it profusely

159 - dead wrong. Dallas is a modeling hotbed, tons of gorgeous women. You'll see more fat girls in NYC in February than Dallas. No doubt. And the BBQ thing is funny from a bunch of people that live in meatball and sausage country. I love those food items, as well as BBQ. But I wouldn't put down any area for having them...

163 -- Who cares about your career? I'm talking about a decent place to have dinner here.

165- don't be a jerk. I've lived in both Texas and NYC, the former is better for BBQ, Mexican, and steak, the latter is better for everything else, including women.

156-
If you think people don't use the word "Jesus" sincerely in NYC, you've obviously never ventured beyond your yuppie enclave on the Upper West Side (or even outside your office for that matter). Most of this city does not live in Manhattan, most of it does not eat at Peter Luger's. Wake up, asshole

164 -- Meatball and sausage country is the upper midwest. New York is foie gras and truffles country... and occassionally pizza and bagels. Some Chinese. That's probably it -- you can't have a decent bagel in Texas. Disgraceful.

Gorgeous? I'm having a hard time thinking of Dallas as a "modelling hotbed"... as far as that goes, you've got New York, Paris, Milan, Tokyo... maybe London... that's about it as far as "modelling hotbeds" go in the world. There's some attractive women in Miami... fewer in L.A.... and pretty much that's it outside of N.Y.C. It's hard to sleep with a girl on a mink blanket while she either cries or looks away indifferently out the window, unable to convey her feelings since she can't speak a word of English, when it's 85 degrees outside and she's all happy from having been a high school cheerleader years ago.

Wait, someone's actually bragging about sports at the Garden? The only thing going on at the Garden is a big batch of fail, hoping that LeBron James will decide he wants to play for that failure.

And before you protest, no one cares about the Rangers.

169 - Have you not been to a Liberty game? They're FANNNNNNtastic.

Was 127 the last substantive comment on the Sidley situation (ya know, the subject of this thread)? How in the hell does every other thread on this board turn into an argument about Texas?

171 -- To get back on topic, the bagels in Dallas are far better than 168 is giving them credit for. You have to hunt a litter harder than in New York, but you can pretty easily find bagels that are up to par.

171-
because TexLaw firms are actually doing well in this economy and shit-heel NYC hacks can find no other way to justify their horrible existences than by bashing Texas

172-
That's fucking bullshit and you know it. Either you've never had a good bagel in your life, or you're lying.
-a New Yorker who has spent significant time in Dallas
and ps- I'm not a Texas hater AT ALL.

One word that proves the superiority of the City: walking. You can get anywhere you want with a metrocard, $20 in cab fare or, for most things, your own two feet. For anyone who has never lived in one of the few walking cities on the planet, I can't explain how great it is. You just run into things, unexpected places, people you haven't seen in years, great pieces of public art you never expected, music improvised on the spot. Your life is a lttle less planned, a little more elastic and a lot more interesting. Plus, if you're sober enough to raise your hand (say, in response to the question of who wants a shot) you're sober enough to get home. DWIs suck.

I can't believe people are saying NEW YORK is better than Dallas. New York has nothing but homeless people and cold weather. We have everything better than New York here. The new Winspear Opera House is going to be the best Opera House in the world. Our museum has the best impressionist collection in the world. You can't get decent Rocky Mountain Oysters in New York at all! Yall don't even want to get into that argument.

I can't believe people are saying NEW YORK is better than Dallas. Shit, in Dallas, we have Tony Romo fumbling the football so much that it's really easy to have a positive turnover ratio, even if you're a crappy athlete.

177 - Everybody knows Dallas is a basketball town. Nobody cares at all about the Cowboys as long as Dirk's still standing.

The best part about NYC is no DWI. Easy to forget.

The problem with NYC is that it is full of New Yorkers. Texas has a similar problem with Texans.

The problem with NYC is that it is full of New Yorkers. Texas has a similar problem with Texans.

The problem with NYC is that it is full of New Yorkers. Texas has a similar problem with Texans.

New York is a rancid overpriced toilet. Go rent The Warriors; that's what you have to look forward to.

As far as the alleged women...none of them are actually from New York. Think they'll stay around once there's no more money?

183 - Wave after wave after wave of immigrant came to NY in the last 200 years, and for the most part, they stayed. So yeah. And you know why it's overpriced? Cause everybody wants to live here.

The 3 tiers in Chicago is now evident.

Skadden
Kirkland
Jones Day

Latham
Sidley

Everyone Else

Anyone saying V&E hasn't been shoving Litigation partners out the door doesn't know much about litigation in Texas. Whole practice areas have been dumped in the drive to make V&E the Wachtell of energy. We'll see how it works out but I'm guessing that the days of "price doesn't matter" dealmaking has come to an end and that the pendulum will swing back towards litigation.

PS New Yorkers should be reading the Detroit Free Press for a glimpse into their bleak future.

I'm not from NYC or Dallas. Associate from the Illadelph-i here. (Go Eagles, Go McNabb #5!).

Any word of bonuses at Illadelph Big Law ie Blank Rome, Pepper or Echert Semens?

Go Eagles!

Sheppard Mullin froze like a deer in the headlights.

LOL @ 176 regarding "the best opera house in the world." The house may be the best, but the redneck critters trying to sing in there still suck ass. Opera in Texas is like a Will Ferrell movie - so pathetic you just can't stop laughing at it. Soon they will stage Turandot with square dancing and merry exclamations of Yee-Haw!

Elie - DLA just announced new partners for 2009. Only 13 in the US (for a firm of 1,500+ attorneys). Could you make a post about other 2009 partner appointments and see how DLA compares (I know Jones Day just announced 40 new partners)?

- nervous 2L DLA summer

189-
People in Dallas wear jeans to the opera. I'm not kidding. I've seen it.

BACK ON TOPIC:

The salary freeze is a little weird in part because it disproportionately affects the different classes and doesn't take into account/address the supposed cause (the failing economy).

First, the class of 2008 is entirely indifferent: Despite being the class with the least experience and least knowledge, they are the only class not affected by this decision as their salaries remain on the announced scale (while everyone else essentially flunks a class).

Second, the class of 2005 and the class of 2003 seem to be hit harder than the other classes: While some years are a $10,000 bump, associates in classes 2005 were about to make the jump from junior to midlevel (with a $25,000 raise) and 2003 were about to jump from midlevel to senior (with a $20,000 raise). Even after taxes, that is a significant difference (and a more significant difference than the other salary years are experiencing). So they are likely the classes most upset.

And then there is the weirdness of having rates go up but salary stay the same. This may help the law firm's incoming collections stabilize at a time when less business is being generated, but that doesn't appear to help clients who are hurting in this economy. It is also a hard sell to busy associates in bankruptcy or litigation who expect to hit or break hours (it might, on the other hand, be an easy sell to associates in groups who aren't making hours).

I don't envy the folks tasked with making these decisions. If I were in charge, I would propose the following:

(a) Modified salary increases of 50% of the original schedule with retroactive adjustments if things improve. This would help to alleviate some of the inequitable effects that I identified above.

(b) Quarterly hours bonuses for high billers (even if not in particularly high amounts) to recognize their efforts and then annual bonuses adjusted for hours and overall performance.

(c) Move non-busy associates over to assist with busy practice groups. No, doc review and the like isn't ideal, but it can easily be taught. And even if firms had to mark down the billing rate for these tasks (and stop, for example, hiring contract attorneys), at least the firm would be able to keep its associates busy and collect something. In the worst case scenario, you have someone riding out a tough economy bored but billing enough to cover his salary while more equitably sharing/distributing the workload across associate peers. This would seem to help the issue you see crop up on these threads of bankruptcy associates upset that they are billing 2400 while their friends go home at 5 p.m. and would give non-busy associates some shelter in this storm. (It would not, I admit, but good for contract attorneys.)

Other ideas?

Signed,
Someone who does not care at all about Dallas v. NYC, but who finds law firm management very interesting

191--Would you like me to add some "girl color" to your white wine spritzer?

In typical fashion, New Yorkers come across as myopic idiots who are actually more small minded than many of the "rednecks" they chastise.

From the WSJ, pointing out how funny it is for "big city pseduo intellectuals" be so condescending toward suburbia given how cities are more plastic and homogenous than ever!:

One of the most glaring ironies of American life is that the cities have metamorphosed into the suburbs -- sans trees and grass. The cities' fabled diversity has devolved into global chain stores and the electrolyte-enhanced water bottle and the branded baseball cap have become the accessories of a universal comfort and conformity. In a social and cultural sea change, the cities' rented apartments, once the guarantor of diversity and fluid, exciting movement, have been converted into exclusive co-ops and condominiums. Yet as the cities have become a new type of suburb, suburb-phobia has become an ever more acceptable cultural attitude. The suburban person is considered too meek, too asphalt-challenged to inherit the earth. In the urban centers, on the other hand, desperate ambition makes bad manners respectable, and the chic of perverse taste covers up Philistine cluelessness. The decent, suburban person is regarded as contemptible because he has not learned to reach beyond his talents and pick life's pockets.

It could be that suburb-phobia has been a necessary attitude for ex-suburbanites living in urban centers. It may well help them to feel that the increasingly anodyne and homogenous cities are still adventurous and challenging places to live.

195--well articulated by the WSJ. I often attend meetings in NYC and wonder how people are able to live in such a cesspool. I guess that their condescension is a coping mechanism. I am now expecting the deluge of "I'd rather be unemployed in NYC than making 160K in [pick your non-NYC]..."

195--well articulated by the WSJ. I often attend meetings in NYC and wonder how people are able to live in such a cesspool. I guess that their condescension is a coping mechanism. I am now expecting the deluge of "I'd rather be unemployed in NYC than making 160K in [pick your non-NYC]..."

193 - no I'll take it straight out of the box you bought at WalMart. Yee-Haw!!

198--That is really funny. Maybe you can turn it into a Top 10 list. Something like: "Top 10 Things New Yorkers have seen Texans wear to the Opera and stuff Texans buy at WalMart."

10. Jeans and Boxed Wine.
9....[You take over from here]...

195 is defending the SUBURBS as preferable to "homogenous" cities.

Look, we all know the burbs are easier to have a family in, but why would anyone live there before having kids?

185,

I'm sorry but does anyone think that JD should rank ahead of either Sidley or Latham, even with the pay freezes?

201,

I would have ranked JD ahead of Sidley even before the pay freezes. This just lends more credence to that notion.

I would put Latham ahead of JD, but the gap is narrowing a bit.

191 - People in NYC wear jeans to the opera. Not kidding, have seen it and pained me. But then I noticed the silver lining: at least they went to the opera. (Broadway not what it used to be either)

203--on a tuesday night, the opera isn't all that formal, esp with younger people. on a saturday night you see more of the old timers wearing gowns and tuxes with fancy scarves.

broadway is basically casual dress b/c it's 80% tourists.

203 - Yeah, but both sightings occurred on Sat night. I really don't care about people's attire so long as those sitting around me don't smell and/or talk during performance.

JD is a fine firm with fine attorneys, but they don't have the presence in Chicago that Sidley does. A pay freeze alone won't change this fact (at least in the short term).

192 - That's an idea. Thanks for actually contributing something worthwhile. I propose another alternative.

Keep the published scale, but individually and confidentially make the decision on whether the associate advances a class year. People who met hours (say 1900 and up) get moved up, people who had some work (say 1400 and up) get frozen, and people who were way slow (less than 1400) get docked a class year (just for next year, until their hours get back up). Nobody gets upset because people without hours are happy to just have a job, and may be motivated to move to another firm thereby alleviating your firm's glut of slow associates without layoffs. You don't get just as much immediate savings as a pay freeze, but do it in a targeted, fair manner.

Man, I should be a law firm consultant.

I agree with 139.

But it still makes me sad to see anybody get frozen.

In the end though, it couldn't have happened to a nicer lot.

176/189/191 -- please take your discussion to manhunt.com and leave this board to lawyers and law students. TIA!

Latham Ass. laughing at all these Sidley AusTTTin TTTs (aka Latham rejects). Sorry about your tiny pink Latham rejection letter bro.

It looks like Sidley plans to make up some additional revenue by billing at $1100/hour in the Tribune bankruptcy. $150/hour more than Harvey Miller in the Lehman bankruptcy? Big, brass ones!

38/82/103: You are clearly a junior-level associate MORON who thinks you know how the law business works.You naive piece of fungible dross.

There are well-established informal NETWORKS of partners and other managing personnel at law firms who are ALWAYS keeping tabs on what their peer firms are doing. Even BEFORE decisions are made and then announced. They do not need blogs to get "timely" information.

You are a typical pissant who got an 'education' while surfing the internet and thinking that blogs make the world go 'round. You have no idea how the big boys run things in the real world. You naive, self-important IDIOT.

the conversation between 38/82/103 and 212 is getting tiresome (is this how well everyone at Sidley gets along?) but 212 is right, and it doesn't even have to be partners or management. Recruiting staff at firms regularly talk to each other about issues like this and pass them on to their committees.

Having said that, ATL is certainly a noteworthy blog (and one which a lot of partners who are NOT in management turn to for information), so 103 has a point that publishing the information here is likely to reach some new sources.

So you are both right on some level, okay? Now STFU.

213: 212 here. This was my first response to that idiot 38/etc. Not part of a 'conversation'. The key point is, the DECISION MAKERS always keep tabs on what's going on at other firms, and use that info before lowly associates ever become aware of this stuff. It's "nice" that blogs may get this info out to more people, but the decisions are made using directly communicated info that blogs only report onafter the fact.

So 38/etc. is still a MORON..

212 here again. Just want to also note that I'm not at Sidley. But it IS good to know they have at least one IDIOT of an associate there (aka 38/82/103). Probably a second-year at best who is crying at his failed salary bump. And blaming it on blogs, no less.

Anyone who thinks NYC is homogenous has never set foot in Queens or Brooklyn, which account for well over half of the city's population, and are among the most diverse places on earth - there is a stretch of Roosevelt Ave. in Queens which people wittily refer to as a UNESCO as a World Heritage Site because it is the hub of a neighborhood that includes Pakistani, Indian, Ecuadorian, Bolivian, Mexican, Colombian, and other ethnic communities.

Second- for anyone who thinks the opera discussion is somehow not "manly" - as a BigLaw associate in New York I can tell you that many of the partners in my firm have subscriptions to the Met Opera, the Philharmonic, and the ballet, and if you can hold an intelligent conversation with them about these elements of high culture, you will be much more esteemed than some snot-nosed homophobe like 209.

But I thought that Sidley was the kind and gentle law firm where everyone worked less, was happier, and still got paid just as much as everyone else...

All of the recruiters told me so!

38 ... no wonder you work at Sidley...retard.

217: that gives you an insight into how genuine Sidley recruiters are.

Only in Dallas can you go to Walmart and buy a sheep to nail in your law offices.

192: So, what you're really saying is that the lockstep salary scale is a little weird because it disproportionately benefits the different classes by giving them different-sized bumps?

And doesn't the salary freeze really address the ("supposed") cause of our failing economy by reducing firm costs while business is down?

Is it Moron season here on ATL?

221: The significant gaps/bumps for the junior to midlevel and midlevel to senior in the lockstep structure signifies a shifting of expectations and responsibilities (e.g., now a midlevel, or now a senior). So yes, the freeze disproportionately affects those who would be moving up a LEVEL as opposed to just moving up a CLASS.

And, I acknowledged that freezing salaries could help the firm, but freezing salaries while increasing the billing rates as some firms have done doesn't help the clients (even though some of these memos present the salary freeze as helpful to the clients).

I'll be the first to admit that I don't have the answers. Just trying to throw some thoughts out there.

207 had some good/interesting thoughts.