FIRST

first to say Jonathan Lee Riches on this thread

Suck it 2
-1

4=1

HLS grad

MWE's practice should not be characterized as a pay freeze. Lots of firms raise salaries in Feb. or March and make it retroactive to Jan. 1. For anyone who actually knows anything about biglaw (apparently not the editors of this board), that is not a pay freeze. Please don't mistate the facts just to sensationalize.

You know you're at a TTT firm when . . .

I think this type of behavior is relatively anamolous. Yes, I know a few firms have done it, but most large firms simply are not freezing salaries. Period.

'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the firm
Not a creature was billing, not even a nervous first year;
The redwelds were hung by the chimney with care,
In hopes that St. Lat soon would be there;
The children were nestled all snug in their beds,
While visions of never seen daddy the lawyer danced in their heads;
And my para in her 'kerchief, and I in my suit,
Had just settled our brains for a long winter's due diligence review,
When out on the lawn there arose such a clatter,
The dude my wife is sleeping with sprang from the bed to see what was the matter.
Away to the window he flew like a flash,
Tore open the shutters and threw up the sash.
The moon on the breast reminded him of hot little Kash
As I was stuck in the office, drafting secretary's certs,
When, what to my wondering eyes should appear,
But a miniature deal toy, and eight tiny paralegals,
With a little old senior counsel, so lively and quick,
I knew in a moment it must be the Ghost of Bonuses Past.
More rapid than eagles his coursers they came,
And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name;
"Now, Cravath! now, Skadden! now, Wachtell and S&C!
On, Latham! on, Orrick! on, Weil and Thelen!
To the top of the Vault Rankings! to the top of the bonus payments!
Now bill away! bill away! bill away all!"
As conformed sig pages that before the wild hurricane fly,
When they meet with an obstacle, imagine how calm it will be when your firm dies;
So up to the last FedEx shipment the closing docs they flew,
With the box full of exhibits, and Good Standing Certs too.
And then, in a twinkling, I heard on the roof
The prancing and pawing of each little hoof.
As I drew in my head, and was turning around,
Down the chimney the Name Partner came with a bound.
He was dressed all in woman's clothing, from his head to his foot,
And his clothes were all tarnished with sequence and loot;
A bundle of cash he had flung on his back,
And he looked like a hooker just opening her crack.
His eyes -- how they darted! his dimples how queer!
His cheeks were like roses, his nose filled with blow!
His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow
And the beard of his chin was covered with something that was white as the snow;
The stump of a pipe he held tight in his teeth,
And the smoke it encircled his head like a wreath;
He had a broad face and a little round belly,
That shook when he laughed, like a bowlful of jelly.
He was chubby and plump, like a white clone of Elie,
And I laughed when I saw him, in spite of myself;
A typo in his post and a twist of his head,
Soon gave me to know I had nothing to dread;
He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,
And completed all the certificates; then turned with a jerk,
And laying his finger aside of his nose,
And giving a nod, to the FedEx station he rode;
He sprang to his taxi, to his team gave a whistle,
And away they all flew like the careers of us all,
But I heard him exclaim, as he delivered the certificates of stock,
"Happy Christmas to all, and to all a Glass Cock."

This is a great firm at which to start out your career, especially if you have no meaningful aspirations.

1: rude

-2

kudos to the management for the guts to make the right decision

those who matter (that is, partners with business) need to be fed, and fed well. pay for performance bitches - PAY FOR PERFORMANCE!!!! ALL FIRMS NEED TO FOLLOW LATHAM!!!!

Leaving out MWE, because that's just wrong, we have the likes of Bryan Cave, Womble Carlyle, and Venable. So pretty much just Latham when it comes down to first tier firms. Even counting all 4, 4% of the top 100 firms (wait is Womble even in the T100?) is hardly a tsunami of pay freezing. Is ATL going report when the personal injury shop above Arby's freezes salaries? Let's hope ATL doesn't bite its readership and make this thing a self fufilling prophesy.

From today's NYL:

However, pay freezes aren't necessarily the best way for firms to address their financial problems.

"Pay freezes are a fairly typical reaction," Anderson said. "What I seldom see is firms that focus on their unproductive partners and practice areas, and really look at what they can do about those. Partners don't like to look at each other."

How about a post on firms that have affirmatively said post-Latham that they will be raising salaries as expected. Do your job Elie.

Despite "hard times," it seems the firms freezing salaries have no problem promoting their associates for billing purposes!

I can't believe glass cock wrote that poem. It was kind of fun to read, but I can't believe how few billables that guy must have right now to post like that.

6 and 13 -- Please see this comment:

"MWE associate here. In the past, raises started on January 1. Things are a little different this year because of the change in the billing year, but knowing this firm, there is no way in hell they will make any pay raise retroactive. There was definitely some howling yesterday when that memo went out because everyone knows the firm just shorted everyone a few thousand dollars. Cheapskates."

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/12/the_next_wave_of_cost_cutting.php#comment-860423

6 and 13 - do you work for MWE? I read the memo and it looks like a potential pay freeze to me. They might decide to make it retroactive, but they also might decide to freeze salaries for the entire year. What makes you see it differently?

17 - knowing the Glass Cock, he's got better things to do than bill on Christmas Eve - I bet he's cranking that big eponymous member to a picture of Kash as we speak !

Seeger Weiss just froze salaries even though they expect to be paid out in 2009 from the Vioxx settlement and have their best year ever.

The Glass Cock here, explaining that he wrote that poem whilst sitting on the crapper at Orrick. Most days the Glass Cock would be conducting conference calls during the Drop a Deuce hour, but in honor of the day the Glass Cock spent his time to entertain the associates who have made him so wealthy.

Glass Cock: wow, 180 if you actually wrote that, 170 if you just pasted it.

As for Venable- thank god I didn't work at that TTT

Other Chicago firms with a calendar year billing year raise salaries in Feb. or March and make it retroactive. Sure, it may be that MWE is being intentionally vague, but until they come out and say "we are freezing salaries for 2009," the mere practice of raising salaries in March of the next year is not a pay freeze. Otherwise I would've had my pay "frozen" every single year for 3 months. No outright announcement = no pay freeze. Consider the alternative, every firm that hasn't announced its decision has frozen pay?

It seems that everyone is forgetting that Squire Sanders, not Latham, was the first Vault 100 firm to freeze salaries firmwide (in the US) for all of 2009 -- there was nothing ambiguous about the freeze memo posted previously on ATL...

Mayer Brown just matched NYC market.

I just did your mom.

Throw partners without business under the bus - not indentured servants a/k/a associates.

Glass Cock- did you bill that Deuce Hour to associate development?

Has any firm done anything about non-producing partners?

I've heard rumblings that my firm is telling service partners to get business or get out.

26: Who did you hear that from? I work at MB and haven't heard anything.

28--

I do not see much of a difference between service partners w/o biz and associates--both sets of employees have every reason to be concerned.

9--

I appreciate the effort, but you have way too much time on your hands.

While this sucks, I'll take it over layoffs any day of the week.

32 - does this mean you're not in good standing or meeting MB's expectations?

Yes, they just matched.

the layoff vs. payfreeze question is the choice between capitalism and communism. see, sometimes communism is good. leave it to you to decide who it's good for.

35 - yes, because that's the most logical explanation (esp. since the email went to all NY associates). I'm in the Chicago office. They usually announce same day (though I don't think they did last year) and I hadn't heard anything.

umm dealing with unproductive partners works like this: http://www.observer.com/node/50636

33, really? Um how about this. Associates cost a lot less than partners.

39--

33 here. Not always the case. Some senior associates make more than junior service partners at their firms--especially when you look at different practice areas (senior associate in highly prized practice vs. junior partner in a run of the mill practice). Also, service partners tend to be a lot more efficient than many associates. To the extent they have some book of business, service partners may also "cost" the firm less by paying their own way to some extent. In other words, there are offsets. But, I stand by my post: both have reason to worry.

Latham = Venable and Womble Carlyle?

Wow.

The Glass Cock here, responding to 29:

I always bill my time whilst dropping the kids off at the pool. Anyone who has ever used the stall next to me (and you'd know, since I leave my building pass hooked to my trousers when they are on the bathroom floor) would know that I have my blackberry with me at all times and do not shy away from calling associates from the loo.

And if I don't have a client to bill, I will designate the hours to "studying methane gas project development matters".

Enough about Latham, already. As a partner at Latham (though admittedly not on the Executive Committee, but high-up enough to know what is happening), I'll be the first to admit we made a mistake. No one is following the lead we thought we would set. Look for a renouncement of the plan in January or February citing better than expected end-of-year collection efforts.

43 - I hope you are right and not just pretending to be a partner.

As a Latham associate who is now getting $25K less than my peers, even though I billed over 2300 last year, I am royally pissed. And everyone else is too. At least all those who met their hours this year. This was one fucking boneheaded move.

On top of that, the word is there will be layoffs soon.

If Latham doesn't roll this back ASAP they will suffer some serious hurt when the economy rebounds and they actually want to hire associates.

Or even quicker, when those of us with other options decide to exercise those options and find work at a firm who values more than just the partner's swollen bank accounts.

Latham's only hope is to roll this back ASAP or make up for it at bonus time for those of us who worked our asses off this year and deserve market pay.

44 - 43 here. At 2300 hours you should be more than taken care of (shouldn't even notice the pay freeze even if we were keeping it around), provided of course the associates committee requests a sufficient amount to compensate the associates who billed at or above pace. It is in your interests to talk to the committee members and ask them to request an amount sufficient to compensate high-billing associates at or above market rates, especially in light of the freeze. Keep in mind that it is not the partners' fault if the associates committee requests an amount that is insufficient to compensate you at the level you feel you deserve.

43 -

So executive committee rolls out this toxic plan, but ascom has to try and fix it, and will take all the blame for the fallout because they didn't count the beans right for the bonus pool?

That's a fucking brilliant plan. If I was a Latham partner, I'd be patting myself on the back right now.

Ellie, MoFo announced the following:

NY Office: Half-Skadden/Cravattth
All Other Offices: (probably) Half-Skadden + Hours Bonus (I am grateful for this because I am a high biller)

The part that annoys me the most is that MoFo "might" freeze salaries. Keith Wetmore of course cited Latham. He said the firm will decide in January. That is ridiculous. No other top firm has frozen salaries - i.e. OMM, NY Firms, Gibson, K&E, etc.

Thank you damn Lathamites.

45's mouth is full of jizz.

47, it's true that Keith's message left open the possibility of a salary freeze, but I think it is pretty unlikely that MoFo will freeze unless a lot more peer firms do it first. Mofo is definitely (and unashamedly) a follower when it comes to this kind of thing. They just don't want to promise not to freeze salaries until it is clearer where the market it going.

Another Latham associate here. One way or the other, Latham associates who hit hours (and way beyond, as is the case with many of us) should be compensated at least at market (i.e., the regular salary progression and the Cravath bonus). Anything less would a) be embarassing for the firm, since we would be the lowest paying Vault 10 firm, and probably the lowest paying Vault 20 firm, b) cause recruiting to go to shit, since every comparable law firm would pay more, and c) push good, productive associates into the arms of a higher paying competitor (another big firm) or a competitor that pays the same where the work is better (boutique firm). Unless you have some weird loyalty to Latham, or are a senior associate who has received signs of making partner, it just does not make sense to stick around. And there are options out there, I have spoken with recruiters and there is still demand for litigation associates, and I have spoken with friends at other firms who say the same.

That said, I doubt that the Executive Committee would roll back the salary freeze in January or February, as much as I want to believe 43. That would pretty much be an admission that Latham made a stupid move, that it tried to dictate the market and failed. I have a hard time believing that this would happen. If anyone has any great ideas on excuses that the Executive Committee could give to roll back the freeze in January without looking like chumps, Latham associates around the world would appreciate it. Better than expected collections in 2008 feels like a pretty flimsy excuse, especially considering that the reason given for the freeze was the unpredictable economic climate in 2009 (apologies 43, but if the Executive Committee does roll back the freeze and uses your cited reason, I will keep quiet and just take my money).

Which leaves the bonus. With all the associates who won't make hours this year (a lot), the bonus pool does not need to be huge for associates to have bonuses large enough to cancel out the salary freeze. A bonus structure similar to OMM would do the trick (modifications necessary for those years that were going to go up more, like 4th years). Latham could justify the bonus amounts as being at OMM's levels and would not have to go through a public retraction of its salary freeze.

Venable, McDermott, Bryan Cave, Womble Carlyle...

That's FOUR! FOUR super-prestigious firms that followed Latham! AH AH AH AH AH AH AH!

- ATL contest loser

Pay Freeze List of Shame
-----------------------------------
Latham & Watkins
McDermott Will & Emery
Bryan Cave
Womble Carlyle
Venable
Squire Sanders

Everyone Else
---------------------
Orrick
Skadden
Cravath
Simpson
Davis Polk
Cleary
Dewey
Milbank
Clifford Chance
Willkie
Boies Schiller
White & Case
Paul Weiss
Schulte Roth
Debevoise
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank
Allen & Overy
Gibson Dunn
O'Melveny
Wachtell
Cadwalader
Sullivan & Cromwell
Sidley
Quinn
Hogan & Hartson
Weil
Dechert
Kirkland
Jones Day
Proskaur
Mayer Brown

=====================
Latham threw a pity party and nobody came. How pathetic is that?

30 and 31

Firms are ALWAYS riding their partners to produce - p/ship is not some annuity

produce = get paid

dont produce = get out

you really think rainmakers like to subsidize parasites?

Has there been any word at all on Orrick, Pillsbury, Wilson, or other SF/NorCal firms besides MoFo? It's totally lame that MoFo can't even get it together to make a real announcement before the end of the year, but I guess they are waiting to find out what happens with these other firms.

54 see 47

Thanks, 55, but my post was in response to 47. I was asking whether ther was any info from any *other* NorCal firms (i.e., besides MoFo).

-54

54, I do not think other firms have announced and that is probably why MoFo is waiting it out. It will depend on whether other SF shops follow Latham. MoFo sees Orrick and OMM as peer firms. I believe OMM already announced it was NOT freezing salaries. Come on Uncle MoFo, you can at least be as generous as OMM!!!

57, I agree. MoFo has committed to meeting the market. So given OMM, and hopefully no bad news from Orrick, Wilson, etc., we should be OK. MoFo paying less than OMM would be really disheartening and bad for the firms rep.

The ridiculous salary increases of the past few years have resulted in too many associates getting paid far more than they should from an economic standpoint, and many partners are suffering financially because of these increases (and the Depression we are currently in).

God help us all if more firms do not do the right thing here.

59, how do you explain the fact that PPP has been going up at least as fast as associate salaries? Until the current economic meltdown (which, believe it or not, was not caused by associate salaries), partners seemed to be doing pretty well.

And nobody was holding a gun to partners' heads. If they didn't think it was worth it "from an econmic standpoint" it to keep up with the Joneses and increase associate salaries, then presumably they would not have done it.

59=Latham partner.

Latham is a frozen cum dumpster. Latham has officially succeeded in guaranteeing that no one will choose it over any v.20 firm. Oh, and what a joke that Latham is ranked 8 and Gibson is 17. And Latham is a crazy balkanized horrible place to work for partners because their comp system disincentivizes cooperation among the partners. Latham's business model is some eat what you kill bullshit -- and that doesn't work when you're trying to be a one stop shop that's everything to everybody. Partners don't help each other out because it's not reflected in their comp.

Now they take associates who billed 2300 and up and tell them that they're not worth as much as their peers at other firms. That is pure greed. And it's bullshit! Don't fool yourself, anyone who had any other v20 options currently regrets choosing Latham. And the second this thing calms down a little bit, lots of star associate will be looking for a way to get the fuck out...and they will find jobs elsewhere because despite the downturn, Latham associates tend to have awesome qualifications and there are lots of them in busy practice areas (lit, restructuring, etc.)

BOTTOM LINE: DO NOT GO TO LATHAM.

Yeah, please do not go to Latham. In fact, don't go to any law firm. There's way too many lawyers right now. Learn a good honest trade like bricklaying or something.

60 raises some good points, but the world has changed and we must all be very, very frank with each other: too many associates, too high associate salaries, and few partners with portable book spells big changes for the most prestigious of firms.

The institutional clients who fed the bloated vault-whatever firms deals have largely gone the way of the dodo - a new day has dawned, the day of pay for performance at all levels. Look for PPP at the "top" 20 or so firms to collapse in 2009 and going forward - it was a good gig while it lasted, but ultimately promoting those who cannot sell will come back to bite...as this has already started.

Drink the ball nog bitches...and God bless us all.

Glass Cock:
you too use the old "bio fuels research" canard for the Deuce Hour?
a gentleman and a scholar you most certainly are
-29

better to be at a frozen salary firm than a soon to be buck-fitty a gallon PWN3D "big tex law" firm?

ha! Venable should change its name to vulnerable. Latham is a piece of shit sweat shop. Partners are the worst.

62- you apparently know nothing about Latham. it is not at all eat what you kill, and there is plenty of incentive to share work with other partners. and it happens - All. The. Time. Not only in offices but across offices. You can call Latham whatever you want, but at least get your facts straight first.

68 - so you're a cumgarbageman

Part of the problem, at least for those folks who appear to have been the victim of the old bait and switch, is that they've gotten a taste of what's waiting for them when they come up for partnership. Just think about it: If your firm is announcing scaled-back bonuses and frozen compensation after you've billed 2300+, imagine what's waiting for you when the firm has to consider cutting you in on a piece of the equity pie (a lot more $ than what is now at stake). For those who are now junior and will be able to make moves when the market turns around, you better remember this episode no matter how many times partners tell you you're knocking it out of the park. Talk is cheap. And, for those who say such things as "Be glad you have a job," I suggest you go back to building your fallout shelter and stockpiling the canned goods.

71 nailed it! Latham sucks. You get screwed as an associate and make shit as a partner.

70 nailed it! Latham sucks. You get screwed as an associate and make shit as a partner.

53, rainmakers are all too often ready to subsidize parasites because a) they do most of the subsidizing with other people's money (i.e. they socialize the cost of their unproductive partners across the firm); and, b) they don't like a lot of commotion and parasitic partners are classic squeaky wheels.

Parasitic partners are simply collectivists who understand human nature.

People seem to have forgotten that VENABLE SUCKS. It's barely a law firm. And I've never even heard of Womble Carlysle (which I'm sure I spelled wrong but do not care to learn the correct spelling because I doubt I will ever need to spell it again). Ooooooh, Venable freezes pay! A GIANT news story that effects 200 or so below-average associates that will never achieve anything of significance. Latham freezing is a story. Even McDermott Will freezing is a story. Venable?? Not so much.

I have a couple observations of my own to offer. First, Venable freezing salaries may not be front page news in your view, but it certainly matters to others. No, I do not work at Venable or know anyone who does. The story may be material for page A12 as opposed to A1, but that doesn't make it any less worthy of coverage.

Second, when describing other associates as "below average," try to be clear on the distinction between affects versus effects. Under normal circumstances, I could care less about all of the mistakes made in posts on this blog. But, your undertaking (denigrating an entire class of associates) merits special attention—especially because the mistake appears in the same sentence in which the characterization is found.

Third, I am not sure I understand the logic behind your frequency of usage and correct spelling model. No, I do not work at Womble Carlyle or know anyone who does.

Good luck on your spring semester 1L finals.

75 here.

Comment 75 was submitted in response to comment 74.

74, you a fucking picklesniffer. Go back with the other mouth breathers to your Dungeons and Dragons game. You are clearly an idiot. I hope you never work at my firm. I hate you, 74.

FUCK YOU 74, YOU RAT ASS 1L. YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT.

74 to STFU and eat a big dick.

75, the correct phrase is "couldn't care less."