Corporette called it wants its article back

Can you stuff a lump of coal into a Christmas card?

If your secretary can't even make copies without dropping the ball, can you give them a stocking full of coal?

What are Skadden associates giving?

Can someone explain the GULC thing? I get every other meme on here except that one.

Didn't your parents teach you to just take the gift, smile, say 'thank you' and then throw it away if you don't like it?

Why make such a big deal out of it?

Again - envelope containing semen - appropriate or not?

What should I do if I had a different secretary for most of the year and just got mine in the last month or so (I did not change firms, just got reassigned a new secretary). Should I split the gift between both, or just give it to the new one?

WHOA IS ME!

I bet the peanuts and cheese guy has some gift suggestions.

To the secretary who doesn't want to partake in gift giving: if receiving gifts bothers you so much that you don't mind looking like an unappreciative bitch, then by all means say something. On balance, you may find it makes more sense to keep your mouth shut and pretend to have some gratitude.

I have a heterosexual male secretary.

even though it is not insignificant, the amount that it is customary to give (around 150) is too small to be affected by low hours, unless you want to appear as stingy.

re the secretary... what a wet blanket

13 - How do you like your manetary?

What if the secretary doesn't do anything for you because they feel the partner is the only one they "really" work for!

To the secretary: do you want to work with me? I don't want to give or receive inter-office gifts too. The compulsion to give, the fake generosity, the fake gratitude, and the fact that I don't give a shit whether you like me or not since I really don't need a secretary since I end up having to do everything myself anyway if I want it done in a decent amount of time or done right means I hate giving a gift for no reason when I would rather spend that $150 on someone I do care about.

What does an associate at a firm that gives between 0 and 0 for bonuses get an assistant? It's not like I'm going to get a check for 17K and can happily give my assistant a few hundred bucks. I did my job and won't get anything extra, the firm will usually pay staff bonuses. Can I skip this?

Good to be in a TTT city - we give cookies, if that.

ARTICLE ON 2L OFFER RECISSIONS

http://www.law.com/jsp/law/careercenter/lawArticleCareerCenter.jsp?id=1202426575878

The person who gives $100 for every year s/he's been at the firm is kind of silly, and should take this as a lesson in using some foresight. It doesn't take much thinking to say "hmm, am I really interested in giving my secretary $500 when I'm a 5th year? $600 when I'm a 6th year?" If not, then sticking with the norm would have been fine.

Agree with 14, too - the decrease in hours/associate bonuses really isn't enough to justify cutting secretary gifts, unless you are a tool who wanted to feel magnanimous by throwing out a giant pile of cash and are now feeling pinched by your own bad judgment.

I ate indian food last night and now I have diarrhea. I'm afraid if I cut one in my office I'm going to load my pants, which I just dry cleaned.

what about group gifts with all of the attorneys the secretary works for? what's the deal there, aside from whatever the partner(s) tell you to give?

Can STDs count as gifts? Magazine subscriptions do...

I'm a first-year (started this fall) DC biglaw associate. How much should I plan on spending on my secretary?

Secretaries always whine about wanting to be told in person, rather than in their reviews, what they're doing wrong. Well, how does it feel to have the tables turned? Why don't you just be an adult and tell the lawyers you don't want gifts? Maybe you deserved the "Communicates poorly" criticism on your annual review after all.

If you need an alternative, why not suggest that you all go out for a nice lunch instead of exchanging gifts -- just to celebrate the end of the year, not Chrismukka. Maybe you'll discover that the lawyers are actually very nice people who are just trying to make you feel appreciated.

All that said, who are these lawyers who give their secretaries gifts? Don't they know that everyone prefers cash? Give an Amex gift card if you must, but don't presume your secretary will find that teddy bear adorable. She'll probably end up giving it to her dog.

If the firm give support staff bonuses then go with a $25 item, chocolate or something. If they do not give support staff bonuses then give 100 per year. If the support staff is worthless, then give as low as $10 per year.

But my bonus is only going to be $17,500 this year!!! You mean I have to give $150 to my secretary???? Now I will only have a $17,350 bonus!!! Damn, I'm trying to plan a ski trip to the Alps, this is killing me!!

I had one secretary most of the year (who was awful) and another for the last few months (who is great). Okay to give above-market $ to new secretary and zip to old?

What's the market for this now anyway?

#8--Yes, always appropriate. However, don't use one of those routing envelopes with the holes in it--half the load will be left in the mailroom.

My secretary is fantastic, and I plan to give her $100 for each year I've been an associate, which adds up to $500. Let's face it, I'd spend more than that on a jewelry impulse-buy. It's a small amount to me (even though my bonus is going to be roughly $60k less than it was last year) and worth it to keep a good relationship. That's especially true when I think about what she probably gets paid.

But if she was one of those "can't make a copy" people - and I've worked with them before - I'd still give maybe $100, I guess because I'm just good like that. For a "I won't make a copy" person, a nice card and that's it.

29 nailed it!

29 -

Transatlantic coach is a nightmare. Cut that gift in half!

Is 28 a consensus idea? Looking for more confirmation.

Harry and David's Big Towers of Gifts or whatever they call them. Just pick the biggest one--it comes with like 400 things-all beautifully gift-wrapped, and they run anywhere from $40-$200 max.

Give nothing. It's simple really. The minute he/she complains apologize profusely while fumblng through your empty wallet, reach inside and pull out a your middle finger.

How often do you'll change secretaries?

Associates: as a group, come to the conclusion that the bad economy is not a valid reason to short their secretaries on their year-end bonus, even though they themselves have taken a decent pay cut this year.

Partners: as a group, come to the conclusion that the bad economy is a valid reason to short their associate on their year-end bonus, even though it is not clear whether or not they themselves will be taking a pay cut this year.

Compare and contrast.

Anyone who pays their secretary $100 per year of seniority is magically stupid.

$100 for juniors, $150 for midlevels and $200 for seniors. The duty to pay more is an illusion.

29- you clearly have never received a bonus. you see less than 9k out of that 17,500, and all of it in most of our cases goes straight to loans/mortgage. this is not the high life.

I think cash makes the most sense, but it just seems awkward handing my secretary several hundred dollars in cash. I don't suppose that implicates any tax laws? Any tax lawyers want to opine?

Could we see a survey on this by region and year? first-year associate in D.C.... how much?

I gave $300 last year as a 3rd year in NY. I'll give the same this year.

From a long time legal secretary -- At our firm our bonuses are a nice chunk of our income. (At least for those of us with good performance). We all rely on that cash to give our children Christmas gifts. (no comment on how poor financial planning this is...)This year for the first time in a long history our firm gave no bonuses. Associates will get bonuses for billable hours as will paralegals. Does that hurt? You bet. If you feel like she (or he) does a good job, reward them. If it's a little less cash, so be it. In a firm that is pushing for a 5-1 ratio we ALL realize we do less for our associates. Either get the Christmas spirit or not, but don't do something for someone that you don't like and would prefer weren't working for you! Believe me, they probably already know.

39 nailed it!

You can never really go wrong gifting baked goods with nice GULC frosting for that added personal touch. Or I guess you could just GULC on her desk if you are cheap.

Easy, write them a note saying that in lieau of gifts those in the mood can make a donation to a specified charity. They feel good, you feel good, there charity feels good, someone gets a tax break.

what about other people in the office, like word processing people who might do more work for me than my secretary?

To the secretary who does not want gifts:

Sending a brief email saying that, while you appreciate the sentiment, no gifts are necessary for the holiday season, and if they truly feel compelled to get you something then they can donate to [your favorite charity]. It is easy, polite, and you will come across as looking all the better.

I was planning on giving my secretary a $100 gift card to Bed Bath and Beyond (are they the ones going out of business?) or something along those lines.

I give her VERY little work. Like an hour a week, some weeks none at all. I am a 3rd year.

Is that cheap?

I will just be giving my usual dick in a box. They seem to really enjoy it.

"even though it is not insignificant, the amount that it is customary to give (around 150) is too small to be affected by low hours, unless you want to appear as stingy."

Really? Because that logic apparently doesn't apply to the determination of Skadden vs. CSM level bonuses.

I've never heard of this $100 for every year s/he's been at the firm standard. That's insane. No way in hell I'm giving my secretary $600 unless she blows me every morning. As far as general standards in NY go, I think 40/Magic Man, nailed it: $100 for juniors, $150 for midlevels and $200 for seniors. Done done and done.

41 - it's not the high life, but we're still talking about less than 1% of an associate's bonus. Seriously, people, this is what grown-ups do - pay their support staff a bonus at year-end. I'll be paying my (moderately worthless but very sweet) secretary $150, just like last year. My gardener and housekeeper will also get a year-end bonus. It's customary, and it's not their fault that 2008 didn't work out as well for me as 2007 did.

this exact same post was done last year (with the same picture) which raises the question...WHY NO POST ON THE 1L SUMMER JOB SEARCH?!?!?!?!?

41, i come to the internet to escape from people like you in the real world.
200$ is 2% of the "measly" 9K that you net.

I will be handing out donation cards to The Human Fund.

26, 43, DC associate here - my first year I gave $75 plus a $25 gift which I knew she'd like. I think $100 is a good amount.

I think 40 is exactly right....$100 for juniors (0-2 years), $150 for midlevels (3-5) and $200 for senior associates (6+). Shouldn't really generate this much discussion.

If you want to give more, give more. If you want to give less, give less.

Just give cash.
I think $50/year at the firm is pretty decent this year, starting with $100 for first years.

i think i gave $100 in dc in my first(stub) year. that was 2005.

i eat corn the night before, then i poop on a $100 bill, put it in a clear plastic bag and give it to my secretary. she knows the message.

45 - Unlike most of the secretaries who normally post on here (yes, we can tell), it looks like you actually know how to write in the English language. In all honesty, I wish my secretary could. In related news, I will be giving her the latest and greatest edition of solitare for her holiday bonus.

For #42 - unless you're giving her roughly $12,000 or more (that's one BIG envelope of cash), no tax implications.

Could we conduct a poll to correlate out (i) how much people use their secretary, with (ii) how much they plan to give their secretary?

I'm a 2nd year associate, and my secretary has been working at my firm for longer than I have been alive, and she strongly resents me. Despite my best efforts to develop a working relationship, she is very rude with me and makes it very clear that she would rather not help me with anything whenever I ask. Other associates have similar experiences with their secretaries. I've refrained from giving her a bad review, because I would rather not be black-balled by my entire firm staff for having done so. Fortunately, in a modern world where (i) I am quite frankly a faster and more reliable typer than my secretary, and (ii) use email rather than the phone almost exclusively, it has not been inconvenient to simply not use my secretary at all. Secretaries are in fact an anachronism from before the computer age.

Should I still feel obligated to give a gift? This is besides the fact that I am not Christian or Jewish and find the holiday period personally offensive.

45- You sound like a very competent, professional person. You are a credit to your firm.

Why must this blog always portray secretaries in stockings bending over? It's degrading and inaccurate.

Here’s some advice:

1. Find out if your firm gave annual raises to staff this year and if they are going to give holiday bonuses (This firm did neither). If yes on both issues -- then something small would be appropriate. If neither on both issues, I sure hope you can cough up some cash because if you think you’re broke, think about what we take home! Some of us actually work hard all year.
2. Think about what your secretary does for you all year --- if honestly nothing -- then give nothing. If she/he works their a$$$ off for you…. then return the favor with a little cash.
3. Don’t worry about a physical gift -- cash works best.

To #10 --- give to the secretary you had for the better part of the year. It would look bad if new secretary received a gift from you and has only worked with you less than 2 months. Think about it --- do you think her new boss will give her anything (if she hasn’t worked with him before)?

Just use common sense ---- if you secretary works hard, gives up lunches for meetings, etc., stays late to get something out to the client last minute, helps out when others are swamped, keeps you sane --- you had better pony up some type of gift.

Some of us actually do give a shit!

200 as a 2nd year. It's tax-deductible.

65- please see #62

I paid for my secretary's abortion, nuf said.

P. Hastings

I'm giving my secretary $12.50 and a day old doughnut.

What if your secretary gives you a gift as well? Mine gave me $50 in gift cards and a few small gifts (chocolate) which made my then present of $150 feel cheap. I wasn't expecting a gift from her.

i gave my assistant a cleveland steamer. very prestigious.

$500 to your secretary? Are you kidding me? You could put that money towards your next purchase at the emperors club. It isnt like your secretary is full service.

#68 said "Some of us actually do give a shit!"

Well, it looks like #62 does as well.

Any thoughts about whether a full Christmas gift is still necessary/appropriate when you secretary only started working with you a couple months ago?

Any thoughts about whether a full Christmas gift is still necessary/appropriate when you secretary only started working with you a couple months ago?

a few months means a token gift, provided he or she is doing a good job. Chocolates or something.

58 - you beat me to it. I too, give donation cards to the Human fund.

To anyone thinking of a gift card for a particular store, unless you KNOW that the person really likes going there, get a visa/AMEX card instead. I prefer it to cash as well, and it costs the exact same. Also, no restaurant gift certificates/cards. I'm sure your admin would love to have half her meal at Le Bernadin subsidized, but its still a pricey night out for them to use the gift.

I SECOND 56!!!!!!!!!!!1111oneoneoneonewon!

Guys in my high school used to feign self-righteous indignation at attorneys who objected to giving their secretaries three-figure Christmas gifts all the time. It was no big deal.

FRAT STUD

#77 - a christmas poop is always appropriate, and since s/he is just starting, it may get the relationship off to the right start.

I'm a first year, and I'm not giving my secretary a god damned dollar. I'm already on the bottom of her priority list with the other people she supports, and my student loans suck ass. Maybe this will keep me at the bottom of the list? Oh well, I was there first anyway.

When I was a stub, I gave my secretary a $50 gift card to Macy's. I was almost never in the office, as I was doing a pro bono externship for the stub period, but felt like doing something. She really appreciated it. Will probably do cash this year.

69,

It is not tax deductible.

Here's another twist. At our firm, we have a primary secretary and TWO backups. None of them has done much for me this year except fax and make copies a couple of times a week - I do most of my own typing because they make lots of typos. According to my fellow associates, the norm is to give at least $100 to my secretary and at least $50 each to the two backups. Basically all they did was answer my phone when my secretary was at lunch.

It's not that I don't understand that they use $$ to pay for xmas gifts - but those of us with $150K+ in student loans (still after 4 years out) count on bonuses to pay those back and the big cuts this year mean I'm getting about $0 to $9K after taxes. I worked as a secretary for $30K/year at a major accounting firm for a year or two myself (and by the way didn't get ANY cash gifts from any of my 13 simutaneous bosses or a bonus). So I have to give $200-$300 to the secretaries, big deal, but we shouldn't forget it adds up, when you have chip in for collections for the mail people, the cleaning people, the security guards, etc. plus not to mention the 30 or so people who work in my apartment complex, dog walkers, babysitters. Thats about $1K - $2K right there. For those of us not getting a bonus this year - where are we getting an extra $2K this month?? This is before even buying our OWN families gifts.

71, that's just cold.

I'll start giving secretaries presents when I can sexually harass them again.

-old partner dood
jd '52

Here's another twist. At our firm, we have a primary secretary and TWO backups. None of them has done much for me this year except fax and make copies a couple of times a week - I do most of my own typing because they make lots of typos. According to my fellow associates, the norm is to give at least $100 to my secretary and at least $50 each to the two backups. Basically all they did was answer my phone when my secretary was at lunch.

It's not that I don't understand that they use $$ to pay for xmas gifts - but those of us with $150K+ in student loans (still after 4 years out) count on bonuses to pay those back and the big cuts this year mean I'm getting about $0 to $9K after taxes. I worked as a secretary for $30K/year at a major accounting firm for a year or two myself (and by the way didn't get ANY cash gifts from any of my 13 simutaneous bosses or a bonus). So I have to give $200-$300 to the secretaries, big deal, but we shouldn't forget it adds up, when you have chip in for collections for the mail people, the cleaning people, the security guards, etc. plus not to mention the 30 or so people who work in my apartment complex, dog walkers, babysitters. Thats about $1K - $2K right there. For those of us not getting a bonus this year - where are we getting an extra $2K this month?? This is before even buying our OWN families gifts.

When the partners I work for give me an envelope of cash for busting my ass, then maybe some of it will trickle down. In the meanwhile, the sorry bonus that the firm pays won't even pay my credit card bill for the month.

To NYC 4th year: Please continue with your gift to your secretary as you have in the past. I assume your salary hasn't decreased; neither should your giving. I realize the enormous uncertainity everywhere right now, but it's not necessarily time to hoard. I'll bet she needs it more than you and I'll bet she will greatly apprecitate it - even more than ever. You will be a better man.

To NYC 4th year: Please continue with your gift to your secretary as you have in the past. I assume your salary hasn't decreased; neither should your giving. I realize the enormous uncertainity everywhere right now, but it's not necessarily time to hoard. I'll bet she needs it more than you and I'll bet she will greatly apprecitate it - even more than ever. You will be a better man.

To NYC 4th year: Please continue with your gift to your secretary as you have in the past. I assume your salary hasn't decreased; neither should your giving. I realize the enormous uncertainity everywhere right now, but it's not necessarily time to hoard. I'll bet she needs it more than you and I'll bet she will greatly apprecitate it - even more than ever. You will be a better man.

To NYC 4th year: Please continue with your gift to your secretary as you have in the past. I assume your salary hasn't decreased; neither should your giving. I realize the enormous uncertainity everywhere right now, but it's not necessarily time to hoard. I'll bet she needs it more than you and I'll bet she will greatly apprecitate it - even more than ever. You will be a better man.

21 - old news. that article only refers to 2L offers withdrawn before they were accepted. elie did a number of posts on that topic about 2 months ago.

Who are these people who find the "holiday season" "personally offensive"??? So what if it's not your belief. You are not compelled to believe or participate. Why does the fact that someone else might believe differently than you offend you so much? Should the vast majority silence themselves so as not to offend a tiny minority? THAT is offensive!

Dude, 87 - you still have $150k in loans four years out? And you don't have money for gifts this year? Have you thought about working with a financial planner? Seriously - if you're at a big firm, you're at, what $185k? $210k? Funnel some extra cash towards those loans, man. Budget for December. Be an adult.

My secretary is excellent. And, given that my firm may or may not give a very decent bonus, think it makes sense for those of us who work with her to just give cash. I'm not sure what the hard concept about this is? But, if she weren't any good, I probably would buy her a piece of chocolate..

67 is right - my secretary does not wear stockings.

To the secretary who does not want gifts:

Please send me your resume a.s.a.p.

90 has it right. It all adds up, especially at the end of the year when we have douche bag associates popping in your door every five minutes trying to get you to donate to this worthless charity or that worthless charity or to give back to the law school you don't feel derserves it so our firm looks good. You end up giving money to get these idiots off your back so you can get the work done that you won't get paid as much to do. And yeah, I would be willing to be that many of the assistants out there are in better financial condition than some of the associates, including me, when they don't have the huge amount of debt from educational loans, their own dependents, and so on.

90 has it right. It all adds up, especially at the end of the year when we have douche bag associates popping in your door every five minutes trying to get you to donate to this worthless charity or that worthless charity or to give back to the law school you don't feel derserves it so our firm looks good. You end up giving money to get these idiots off your back so you can get the work done that you won't get paid as much to do. And yeah, I would be willing to be that many of the assistants out there are in better financial condition than some of the associates, including me, when they don't have the huge amount of debt from educational loans, their own dependents, and so on.

Here's a question: does your secretary's personal situation influence your gift giving? My secretary is married to a partner from another firm (don't ask me why she works), but given that she dresses better than most associates, goes on better vacations and generally lives a higher lifestyle than most of us, I find myself thinking that giving her a few hundred bucks (or even an expensive gift) is kind of ridiculous. At the same time, I would hate to have the partners think the same about me and not give me a discretionary bonus if -- say-- I had lots of family money (which I don't). She is generally a great secretary and works really hard. Any ideas?

Stop being so cheap. A couple of hundred dollars is one nice meal out. I got laid off and I will at least send my former secretary a holiday card with a gift certificate in it. He worked just as hard this year as last and I am grateful.

My secretary likes it when I chew holiday fruit cake up and then spit it into her mouth like a baby bird.

How is it that no-one has pointed out (and some people have actually repeated) Elie's mistaken use of "inter-office" to describe intra-office gifts?

Oh right. It's because it was Kash, not Elie.

97, I'm not the above poster, but I believe what she was complaining about is that she IS in effect compelled to participate by the pressure to give a holiday gift to her secretary, copy people, etc. Yeah, yeah, you don't HAVE to give, but if you don't, you're sure as shit not going to get another 15 minutes of decent work from your secretary.

You could donate to a charity on your secretary's behalf with receipt/note from the charity. The amount is up to you. It's a nice gesture and hardly one someone could take negatively -- especially if you don't want to give a lot.

Agree with 40 ($100 for juniors, $150 for midlevels and $200 for seniors), with the following proviso: (i) if you're junior and your secretary treats you like an ugly stepchild because she thinks she only needs to work for the partner you share her with, she gets nothing, you tell her why she got nothing and tell her further that next year it goes in her review, and (ii) if your secretary does anything personal for you on a regular basis (covers when you're late or AWOL, lies to your ex about your whereabouts, deals with the cable company when you're too busy, etc.), add another $50 to $100 to the foregoing amounts.

106 = Elie

100 per class year in good times, increase of half that in years where bonuses are lower than previous year.

Another, 108? Ha!

What an ungrateful bitch! What does Christmas have to do with it.? It's a year-end gift.

104 something thoughtful

109 - if someone is planning to use bonus cash to buy Christmas presents, a charity donation pretty much sucks. It's also sort of passive aggressive, ala "I dare you to act like I haven't done a really nice thing here."

Put another way, a charitable donation receipt goes about as far buying Christmas presents as this pile of prestiges will go toward paying down my student loan.

40, 110- Is that assuming no gift from your secretary or would you tack on additional amounts if your secretary gives you cash/gift certificates at the end of the year?

Dear #98 -

For those of us who sadly had to rely on loans rather than parents to go to pay for school, but had families supposedly making just over the threshold so financial aid was not coming our way, all told we might be up to $200 - $250 in student loans coming out of school. We pay $1500/month in student loan payments (which btw is more than required, as you suggest). Working at big law, we make what sounds like a fortune - about $7K-$8K/month after taxes. Throw in NYC rent, transportation, childcare, food, utilities, healthcare not covered by our lame insurance plans....where would you suggest we get that additional $$ to throw towards our student loans each month?

Not all of us are out buying flat screen TVs and partying like paris hilton you know.

Are holiday gifts bigger in Texas too?

poop!!

poop!!

did i hit the button one too many times? poop.

My husband gives $100 and he's senior in SF.

Here's a question -- How many secretaries really do work anymore for associates other than sorting mail and packaging up original docs for Fed Ex? I think most secretaries support luddite/lazy partners . . .

ATL should do a poll - What does your secretary do for you ? I don't even think most firms replace secretaries who leave the firm.

I give $150+ small gift to my secretary (who only handles my expense reports and time entry), and another $300 among the paralegals and other support staff who help me much more. If my secretary were more helpful to me, I'd probably increase the amount to $200, but as it stands, I also give her cash gifts at her bday ($50) and admin profess'ls day ($50).

I intend to give herpes to my secretary

104 - sounds like the perfect candidate for a charitable donation. Maybe plus chocolate -- even rich women like chocolate.

I will give herpes to my secretary

Are there still dinosaurs left that feel their shiny new big job comes with a oversexed woman in fishnets? Yes, and you are probably also the dweeb that was never chosen in on the playground! But more power to you if you land yourself one of those hot babes that marry you for your money - be careful what you ask for.... you just might get it. ALSO, IF YOUR LOWERED BONUS is your excuse for NOT giving a gift to your secretary: congratulations you cheap bast*&d - the crash of the worldwide economy makes you feel justified in being a tight wad, the type that thinks nothing is too good for themselves, but, screw anybody I possibly can. If you really don't care what your reputation is, go ahead and keep your money. BUT DO US ALL A FAVOR AND KEEP THE CAST OFF GIFTS YOUR WIFE GOT AND THE *#*#! CHOCOLATE TOO! In this industry, even with the lowest starting salary, you can well afford to be generous and give a couple of hundred to your secretary. OR NOT, BUT, THAT WILL MAKE YOU A CHEAP #*@)!_~!&*. Good luck to the fortunate ones who don't know how to care for others. AND THE SECRETARY THAT DOESN'T WANT THE GIFT: HOW ABOUT YOU DONATE IT TO CHARITY IN HONOR OF YOUR BOSS AND GIVE THE NOTIFICATION TO YOUR BOSS. NOW EVERYONE GETS A GIFT YOU IDIOT.

poop plus chocolate...hmmm.

Are there still dinosaurs left that feel their shiny new big job comes with a oversexed woman in fishnets? Yes, and you are probably also the dweeb that was never chosen in on the playground! But more power to you if you land yourself one of those hot babes that marry you for your money - be careful what you ask for.... you just might get it. ALSO, IF YOUR LOWERED BONUS is your excuse for NOT giving a gift to your secretary: congratulations you cheap bast*&d - the crash of the worldwide economy makes you feel justified in being a tight wad, the type that thinks nothing is too good for themselves, but, screw anybody I possibly can. If you really don't care what your reputation is, go ahead and keep your money. BUT DO US ALL A FAVOR AND KEEP THE CAST OFF GIFTS YOUR WIFE GOT AND THE *#*#! CHOCOLATE TOO! In this industry, even with the lowest starting salary, you can well afford to be generous and give a couple of hundred to your secretary. OR NOT, BUT, THAT WILL MAKE YOU A CHEAP #*@)!_~!&*. Good luck to the fortunate ones who don't know how to care for others. AND THE SECRETARY THAT DOESN'T WANT THE GIFT: HOW ABOUT YOU DONATE IT TO CHARITY IN HONOR OF YOUR BOSS AND GIVE THE NOTIFICATION TO YOUR BOSS. NOW EVERYONE GETS A GIFT YOU IDIOT.

The charitable donation thing is the worst idea ever. If you want to make a charitable donation, make it with your $$, not $$ you're supposedly "gifting" to another. How would you feel if you're half-skadden was donated to someone who really needed it?

116 - True, but if you don't want to give a lot to your secretary for any number of reasons, or even give at all, but don't want the bad karma, it's not a bad option....

I am personally giving my secretary $250 - like I do every year - even though I don't celebrate Christmas/Hanakuh because I agree with you.

118 - 98 here. I'm actually in the same boat as you, I just scaled back everything else like crazy and am paying off the loans at a good clip. And I'm sure as hell not using any of my circumstances as an excuse for not giving my secretary a bonus.

I know it's easy, but don't assume everyone who isnt' struggling had rich parents. Some of us just manage our money really well.

97 - "You are not compelled to believe or participate. Why does the fact that someone else might believe differently than you offend you so much?"

Listen to yourself and think. I'm being pressured into giving a gift to a secretary who does nothing for me, in the name of a holiday that means nothing to me and that is supported by a religion that I personally feel is responsible for more human misery than any other force in history. And yes, aside from feeling pressure to alter my own behavior, your belief itself also offends me.

92-95 - secretary.

Are there still dinosaurs left that feel their shiny new big job comes with a oversexed woman in fishnets? Yes, and you are probably also the dweeb that was never chosen in on the playground! But more power to you if you land yourself one of those hot babes that marry you for your money - be careful what you ask for.... you just might get it. ALSO, IF YOUR LOWERED BONUS is your excuse for NOT giving a gift to your secretary: congratulations you cheap bast*&d - the crash of the worldwide economy makes you feel justified in being a tight wad, the type that thinks nothing is too good for themselves, but, screw anybody I possibly can. If you really don't care what your reputation is, go ahead and keep your money. BUT DO US ALL A FAVOR AND KEEP THE CAST OFF GIFTS YOUR WIFE GOT AND THE *#*#! CHOCOLATE TOO! In this industry, even with the lowest starting salary, you can well afford to be generous and give a couple of hundred to your secretary. OR NOT, BUT, THAT WILL MAKE YOU A CHEAP #*@)!_~!&*. Good luck to the fortunate ones who don't know how to care for others. AND THE SECRETARY THAT DOESN'T WANT THE GIFT: HOW ABOUT YOU DONATE IT TO CHARITY IN HONOR OF YOUR BOSS AND GIVE THE NOTIFICATION TO YOUR BOSS. NOW EVERYONE GETS A GIFT YOU IDIOT.

Are there still dinosaurs left that feel their shiny new big job comes with a oversexed woman in fishnets? Yes, and you are probably also the dweeb that was never chosen in on the playground! But more power to you if you land yourself one of those hot babes that marry you for your money - be careful what you ask for.... you just might get it. ALSO, IF YOUR LOWERED BONUS is your excuse for NOT giving a gift to your secretary: congratulations you cheap bast*&d - the crash of the worldwide economy makes you feel justified in being a tight wad, the type that thinks nothing is too good for themselves, but, screw anybody I possibly can. If you really don't care what your reputation is, go ahead and keep your money. BUT DO US ALL A FAVOR AND KEEP THE CAST OFF GIFTS YOUR WIFE GOT AND THE *#*#! CHOCOLATE TOO! In this industry, even with the lowest starting salary, you can well afford to be generous and give a couple of hundred to your secretary. OR NOT, BUT, THAT WILL MAKE YOU A CHEAP #*@)!_~!&*. Good luck to the fortunate ones who don't know how to care for others. AND THE SECRETARY THAT DOESN'T WANT THE GIFT: HOW ABOUT YOU DONATE IT TO CHARITY IN HONOR OF YOUR BOSS AND GIVE THE NOTIFICATION TO YOUR BOSS. NOW EVERYONE GETS A GIFT YOU IDIOT.

"Why must this blog always portray secretaries in stockings bending over? It's degrading and inaccurate."

Because it's a male fantasy . . .and BIGLAW is mostly staffed by males. Besides, the banana hammock pic doesn't play as well.

"Why must this blog always portray secretaries in stockings bending over? It's degrading and inaccurate."

Because it's a male fantasy . . .and BIGLAW is mostly staffed by males. Besides, the banana hammock pic doesn't play as well.

I'd give my secretary a brain....
or barring that Hooked on Phonics.

Maybe just a muzzle so I don't have to hear her bridge&tunnel accent?

Can 134 and 136 go work out some of their collective outrage together?

Imagine a world where you don't take offense at every blade of grass.....

What does one give a Muslim?

133 - 118 back at ya.

First I didn't say I wasn't giving my secretary a gift. I resent her complete and utter incompetence, but I'm not heartless.

Second, I'm so glad you are a great money manager - but are you also a recently single parent with a deadbeat spouse? I'll just tell my son that we have to go live in a craptastic LES apartment and he has to stay home nights by himself because my loans are more important than a babysitter.

Know what you're talking about as well before you criticize others - just as you asked us to do.

Happy holidays all.

109: have you seen that Seinfeld where George contributes to the Human Fund? Merry christmas, I gave your gift to someone else.

142- an explosives belt.

142- Why would that matter? You should give whatever you'd give to a Christian (save for obviously religious gifts. think: a cross). It's the giving that matters. If you are uncomfortable with it, a gift card.

145 epitomizes the reason why many are no longer reading this blog.

Look, there are three kinds of people in this world: dicks, pussies and assholes.

Pussies hate dicks because they're constantly fucking them, but pussies shouldn't hate dicks because dicks also fuck assholes.

and I remember before this economy went south in the 90s why I didn't want to work in the law industry.... all the wah wah wah bottom-feeder comments because you might have to part your a_ _ and give someone a gift that protocol/work reputation dictates....

128, 130, 136, 137 - That's no way to turn the new associates' heads and get asked out on a date. Pls handle, thx.

If my secretary plays video games on her computer all day, won't interrupt a personal telephone call to help me with anything, and never includes an extention when giving me a phone message (despite repeated pleadings to do so), do I still need to give her a gift?

Sure I get a bonus, but I work my ass off for it.

145 epitomizes the reason why many are no longer reading this blog.

145 epitomizes the reason why many are no longer reading this blog.

Question: AMEX gift card or cold hard cash?

142 - How about taking them out to a nice lunch? Ramadan won't impact end-of-the-year holidays again for another 20+ years or so.

55 - the difference is your housekeeper and gardner (really, you have both?!) are YOUR employees. "My" secretary is the PARTNER's employee, as am I. It is the PARTNERs' job to pay her, better if she isn't getting enough compared to the value of her work, and give her nice Christmas bonuses if she deserves it. Once I get a piece of the pie in equity and take on the trouble a risk of bad help it becomes my job to pay her bonuses. That said I will get my secretary a gift card for $50-$100 because I like her, I can afford it and I want to. NOT because it's my duty. It ISN'T. Under the NY $100 per year model my secretary (with several associates and a partner) would be getting a larger amount of cash bonus (after MY taxes) than I would...think about this...it's utterly insane.

65-
amen bro

My secretary is really good. True I don't need her to answer the phone (except to cover for me) or type stuff (unless I'm otherwise too swamped), but I can trust her to take care of administrative stuff well and find out answers to administrative questions that I don't have time for or can't be bothered to hunt down.

That's the kind of stuff a good secretary can really help with.

Pony up and give a hefty x-mas gift to your secretary, no matter what your bonus was, and while you're at it don't forget to take care of the mail room, tech support, print services, paralegals, etc.

This isn't about the holiday spirit or sharing the wealth or whatever. This is about keeping the people who work for you, and can make your life a dream or a living hell if they want to ("sorry, can't do that rush copy job right now!"), happy.

I have been a secretary for 2.5 years. I have a relatively low ratio- one partner, one associate. The associate I currently work with is new to the firm.

My partner gets a bottle of spirits (his favorite, not some cheap brand) from me each Christmas. He, in turn, has been incredibly generous to me. However, I am fully aware that his circumstances are different from that of an associate. I also understand that this year has been difficult for everyone financially.

I would never expect a gift, especially from the associate. I know he has loans and a family. We do not know each other well yet. If it seems like he would appreciate the gesture, I will happily give a small gift (still getting a sense for how he feels about gifts. Everyone is different.).

Secretaries sometimes forget that when a relationship is new, it is a new job all over again. It's more likely that you will make mistakes - even stupid ones - for someone with whom you are not familiar.

8-

Why put it in an envelope when you can deliver it like Multiple Miggs?

- Clarice

154 - I like Visa (or AmEx) gift card vs. cash. I just feel weird handing cash out, plus the gift card can be replaced if lost.

"I got laid off and I will at least send my former secretary a holiday card with a gift certificate in it. He worked just as hard this year as last and I am grateful."

Are you fucking insane?

142: a nice head-scarf?

#150 - that is exactly the point. its a job, not a social circuit. Oh, but you probably wouldn't know the difference.
Note to dreamers: firms stopped giving secy bonuses years ago.

180 to the secretary that emailed ATL with the 100/yr story.

145 - rot in hell you ignorant a$$hole.

146 - you are correct, thank you.

A Muslim

161 = WINNER!

118 - nice poor lawyer troll. almost had me fooled for a minute.

128 / 130 / 136 / 137 - There may be associates with that fantasy when they get to BIGLAW, but I am sure they are cured of that delusion when they see beasts like you stomping around. You sound like a real peach - I'll bet your heavy breathing and the floor vibrations give you away halfway down the hall.

To #84 --- with that wonderful attitude of yours, you'll stay at the bottom of the list!

What if my secretary is an angry Muslim? Should I give her a gift cert to get a massage or is that against some proclamation in the Koran?

Confused and a little scared

I'm giving a gift in keeping with the service I receive. It will be late, sloppy, and make no sense. I'm thinking an expired Men's Warehouse giftcard gven in July to my female sec

Just went to Jewel and got my attorney something special for Christmas.
A heart and a brain.
Both from a pig -- should be no organ rejection that way

"I'm a 2nd year associate, and my secretary has been working at my firm for longer than I have been alive, and she strongly resents me.....Should I still feel obligated to give a gift? This is besides the fact that I am not Christian or Jewish and find the holiday period personally offensive."

Perhaps your secretary strongly resents you because you're a humorless pain-in-the-ass? You find the holiday period "personally offensive? Why, because having that stance supports your decision to be cheap as hell?

161 - look at the blood

#170: why I believe you have me confused with your mother (oops, you probably don't know who that is)
nevermind

Do explosive belts come in different sizes or are they one size fits all?

177: You nailed it . . .I mean, you totally nailed it. Awesome. Doesn't know his mom! WOW! I thought you were going a completely different direction but then, pow . . . don't know who your mother is. Comedy gold baby!

.............crickets....................

#124 Your husband is cheap. He and your comments reflect upon you.

177 - A mom insult, huh? It figures that you're living about 20 years in the past.

Like I said, a real peach. . .

-170

Socks filled with twatwaffles. Duh.

I always thought the $100 cash gift to the secretary was dumb and never did it. My secretary is a nice person, but there would be zero effect on me if she wasn't there. I always get her a gift, but something inexpensive-- just a gesture of thanks, nothing more (e.g., a basket of nice soaps or a bottle of champage).

Now because I am cheap every year, this year I don't have the dilemma of wondering whether it is acceptable to give less. Incidentally, your secretary isn't so bad off. She works a 35 hr week and probably pulls down 70k plus matching 401k. When you think about it, she is making about the same as a jr assoc on an hourly basis.

134 - "Listen to yourself and think. I'm being pressured into giving a gift to a secretary who does nothing for me, in the name of a holiday that means nothing to me and that is supported by a religion that I personally feel is responsible for more human misery than any other force in history. And yes, aside from feeling pressure to alter my own behavior, your belief itself also offends me."

Without its Judeo-Christian foundation, there would be no Western Civilization and thus nothing in this world approaching anything that you think of as freedom. Your ignorant beliefs themselves offend me.

People need to stop piling on the secretary who wrote the quoted letter. I just think s/he was pointing out that s/he is a professional peer and a team member who doesn't expect to be given gifts. (Just like associates don't expect partners to give us gifts.) I think that is a great attitude to have.

That said, I will def. be giving my assistant a gift this year, and a more generous one than I gave last year. This is because I have a new secretary this year who is, quite simply, awesome and has really improved the quality of my life. My previous secretary really didn't do much for me (and messed up badly the little that she did do), so I didn't feel as compelled to give her a bonus in the form of a holiday gift. This year, however, my firm is not giving bonuses, so I'm taking that into account and giving a little more (I also give nice gift cards for birthdays and administrative assistants' day).

Finally, at my CA-based firm, most associates do not give cash. It seems the general thinking is that it is the firm's role to pay a salary and/or bonus--not the associates. So while some partners--firm owners--might give cash, associates tend to stick to gift cards.

we are all employed by the owners of the firm, the partners, whose obligation it is to pay bonuses, if any, to their employees at year end. i don't see any partners stuffing cash in associate's inboxes separately from the firm bonus, and carried to its logical extent, this gift giving would require me to give cash to every person who has helped me to some extent this year, including junior associates and paras and copy center staff who may have done more for me than my secy. it's crazy. you don't own your own firm, you don't pay your secy's salary, so it seems condescending and pretentious to act like you're the big boss handing down bonuses, when in fact, you're just waiting around the computer to see what, if anything, the big boss will spare from his pocket change this year.

I LOVE the pic! Put on your fishnets and pumps, and grab your ankles -- it's time for some boni !!!!!!!!!!

And that's just the associates. . .

it's all about money.

To #84 --- with that wonderful attitude of yours, you'll stay at the bottom of the list!

People need to stop piling on the secretary who wrote the quoted letter. I just think s/he was pointing out that s/he is a professional peer and a team member who doesn't expect to be given gifts. (Just like associates don't expect partners to give us gifts.) I think that is a great attitude to have.

That said, I will def. be giving my assistant a gift this year, and a more generous one than I gave last year. This is because I have a new secretary this year who is, quite simply, awesome and has really improved the quality of my life. My previous secretary really didn't do much for me (and messed up badly the little that she did do), so I didn't feel as compelled to give her a bonus in the form of a holiday gift. This year, however, my firm is not giving bonuses, so I'm taking that into account and giving a little more (I also give nice gift cards for birthdays and administrative assistants' day).

Finally, at my CA-based firm, most associates do not give cash. It seems the general thinking is that it is the firm's role to pay a salary and/or bonus--not the associates. So while some partners--firm owners--might give cash, associates tend to stick to gift cards.

186- you had me until "professional peer and a team member ".

If you had said brainless, lazy, incompetent, fat-body of a drag who is only employed because my antediluvian partners refuse to embrace modern technology, then I would have continued to read your post.

It's a tip, and tipping has gotten out of control. It's expected no matter what, which is bullshit. My sec has literally done nothing, not one task, the entire year. Why should I now give a gift? Fuck that. Call me cheap. I don't really care.

It used to be that you'd give a tip for service above what was common. Now everyone has a hand out. Why? Because I can afford to give I have to no matter how much you suck? That's socialism. If I wanted that I wouldn't work long hours on boring shit.

What's going to happen if I give nothing? Maybe she'll snub me and refuse to do the nothing she already refuses to do.

104, if she does great work, give her a gift that is market with your office/level. Doesn't matter if she's loaded--what you give her will represent your appreciation for her work. The fact that she is married to a partner doesn't matter: She is a professional who has chosen to continue to work (by your account hard and well), and she deserves to be evaluated for her effort.

To echo what many others have said: If you have a good assistant who works hard (through lunch when necessary, doesn't complain, follows up, does a good job, doesn't say no to work that s/he thinks is beneath him/her, stays on top of things). give a gift at the market level ($100 for juniors, $150 for mid-level, $200+ for seniors). If your secretary does not do a good job, or constantly messes up, or doesn't do your work, then a token gift (chocolates and flowers) is fine. But the good ones deserve our appreciation, this year more than ever.

~An associate who has a great secretary now (and has had bad ones in the past)

Cash is so impersonal, and she'll probably just spend it on consumer trinkets like food or gasoline. Give the gift of Heifer International! Your secretary will feel a warm glow knowing that you bought a goat, in her name, for a family in Bangladesh. You can't put a price on that.

To #84 --- with that wonderful attitude of yours, you'll stay at the bottom of the list!

#177 think again...... I figured you might have learned your dislike for women in general from your mother, but, like I said - you probably don't know who she is. that is a compliment to her (took one look at you and dumped you I bet). or, maybe she still cuts up your meat for you?
and by the way, I'm very good looking. I'll bet my legs are your total height. Now, by your standards, does that mean I get a gift, or, deserve respect? OOPS there I go again, assuming you have standards. "There may be associates with that fantasy when they get to BIGLAW, but I am sure they are cured of that delusion when they see beasts like you stomping around". and you state I'm insulting? no little boy. the only associates who fantasize about secys in fishnets are, I'll repeat, rejects dweebs, some of which have elected to become attorneys also. and I assume you just ignore female associates. you need to be sued one day, by a better attorney (easy enough to find I'm sure) for your bigoted attitude.

197 - it's almost 4:00. Shouldn't you be leaving early to go home to your trailer? Thx.

-not 177

197: English. Learn it.

i like comment threads better when angry secretaries aren't on them. Don't they have their own site to comment on? AboveTheSolitaire or something like that?

Based on my experience as a paralegal in a large firm, just remember two things when it comes to buying us gifts:

- It's not required, but it will put you at the top of my priority list at least through March. I won't penalize you for not getting me something, but if everyone else does and you don't...well, you can figure out where you'll rank on my to-do list.

- Don't spend too much, because then it's awkward and I'll feel like I need to get you something. But don't go cheap or give an obvious re-gift (one year, I got a can of nuts that had obviously been part of a larger package). $25 or so is perfect. But if you honestly can't even bring yourself to spend that, at least interoffice a card.

-

Count Layoffula, how many times has 197 referred to another poster's mother? How many times since middle school have the rest of us, combined, dropped a "mother" insult?

At Skadden:
Associates - $150 and up
Partners - $1000 and up

200- it's called the Entertainment Weekly / People magazine message boards

What if you have two secretaries who split the work evenly? $50 seems kind of paltry, but they do have twice as many attorneys giving them gifts (and in theory, half the work from me).

I kind of want to give more after reading this. I don't know if people are just being whiners, but I know my own are highly competent.

God forbid any of you hypocrites ever make partner and have to pay bonuses to associates.

I am a special counsel outside of NY and I give my secretary $1000 every year. She appreciates this immensely and works very hard for me. Maybe your secretaries are so bad because you treat them like crap.

A few posters have raised the question about changing secretaries mid-year. I had a great secretary for the first 9 months and was assigned a new secretary when I moved to a new office. The new secretary is ok.

What would be a fair breakdown? Many people say I should just give the whole gift (say $150) to the new secretary, because the old secretary's new associate will also give her the full gift.

What do others think?

197 - Nice try, but we both know that looks-wise you are a disaster that hit the wall long ago, and everyone reading this blog knows that your attractiveness plummets further each time you open your mouth.

Re your logic that because I take issue with you, I am a misogynist, the good news is this: you made the right choice to be a secretary and not a lawyer. Why don't you run along (not too fast, let's not take it out on your heart and the floor joists) back to your cubicle and let the lawyers talk.

KThxBye,
-177

"I am a special counsel outside of NY and I give my secretary $1000 every year. "

Maybe it was dumb decisions like this that got you passed for partner.

Danielle, stop reading this garbage.

-Andrew

205, if yours are highly competent, give a little more. Seriously. Having worked with secretaries at both ends of the spectrum, I can say with certainty that your work experience is much, much, much better than that of some of your peers.

In the end, there are some assistants who are very, very good. And then there are others who refuse to do work or complain about it, take too long to do it, do it poorly or incorrectly, don't maintain the files (meaning the associates get in trouble), can't e-file, mistype address labels, incorrectly reformat court pleadings, etc. If you have a good assistant, you don't have to deal with all this bad stuff. A nicer gift (cash, gift card, gift that you know will be appreciated) is the least you can do to thank them for their extra work (especially since the firm may not differentiate between the good ones and the bad ones and give only lockstep raises based on seniority).

If you have a bad assistant, a small token gift is all that is necessary.

Some of these comments are harsh! I have been a legal secretary longer than some of you have been alive I would imagine. I get really embarrassed when my bosses give me gifts, mine happen to be very generous, but I graciously accept their gifts. I understand that you guys all have loans to pay and a certain standard of living that you have become accustomed to, but is it really going to kill any of you to give your secretary $100 for the holidays? Hey, anyone want to trade me your crappy bonus for my crappy bonus? I didn't think so.

can we just share what we're planning to do/have done without getting into this class warfare discussion?

as a junior I gave $100 yearly. I think this is higher than DC market. I may keep on giving $100 as a midlevel. Usually I stick it inside a card. She's good but I dont give her a lot to do.

can we just share what we're planning to do/have done without getting into this class warfare discussion?

as a junior I gave $100 yearly. I think this is higher than DC market. I may keep on giving $100 as a midlevel. Usually I stick it inside a card. She's good but I dont give her a lot to do.

why are secretaries reading this site? Stop snooping around and go back to doing whatever is you do that has made you the object of scorn.

206: yours may work hard for you, but the vast majority of us lowly associates have almost no work to give our secretaries.

209 - Please explain why this is a dumb decision. And don't hesitate to use those big words you learned in your SAT review course.

It's always fun to guess which commenters here ever held down a job before passing the bar. This topic makes it especially easy to spot.

Are secretaries expected to give token gifts to the 8 attorneys that have been piled on them?

I've been a legal secretary in this very large Boston firm for almost 25 years. I've worked in different departments, for all types of partners and associates. The gifts have been varied -- cash from partners, which may or may not increase from year to year, gift cards from associates, or nothing. The two best gifts I ever received were from associates -- one was a $200 gift card to a travel agent -- my two associates wanted me to get away for a little R&R, which I desperately needed. The other was just last Christmas -- a camera from my two associates. I was about to take a trip to Europe and didn't have one. So, as much as cash and gift cards are always appreciated, a thoughtful, significate gift is so much better. And, yes, I always get my "people" gifts -- usually chocolates or wine.

32 - But jewelry is FOREVER.

217: Why? No problem. First share with us why you were passed for partner. Then I'll play along.

221: So, a pearl necklace is acceptable?

Are secretaries expected to give token gifts to the 8 attorneys that have been piled on them?

I always give a gift to the associates and the partner I work for. It's not something expected on either side but I work my ass off for them all year and they appreciate me and show me as much when it comes to my birthday and holidays. Honestly it's not about the amount of the gift it's about the recognition and appreciation for the work you do for them all year.

I feel bad for the associates on here that have posted that they are mistreated by their secretary. But remember that goes both ways. There is lots of blame to go around. I think if you have it in you to be generous and want to give your assitant something then that is great. If not then that is your right as well. It's not required. There really is no need to come on here and be nasty and say nasty things about secretaries. Some of us do work hard and go that extra mile at work.

217- that SAT review course got him into the ivy league

219- credited

I'd give cash instead of a gift, mainly because staff bonuses have been cut (they were at my firm).

Again, my secretary is an angry Muslim. Any suggestions?

Confused and a little scared in NYC

212 - we can trade bonuses when we trade work schedules.

I'm a first year associate, and have been with my secretary for only a couple of months. She doesn't do much for me (only expense reports) but she is nice. My question is: I don't want to seem cheap or offend her, but I feel really awkward giving cash or a cash equivalent to a woman old enough to be my grandmother. What's the appropriate thing to do in this situation? And when is the right time/ manner to give a gift to a secretary? I don't even really know any of the other support staff - advice?

Here is a question:

What do you give assistants of the partners for whom you work? Specifically thinking of the ones that can help cover for you . . .

Here is a question:

What do you give assistants of the partners for whom you work? Specifically thinking of the ones that can help cover for you . . . or help funnel additional work your way, e.g., you know who would be good for this job XX associate.

217: how big of a pretentious windbag are you that dumb is not expressive enough? Perhaps that $1000 would be better spent on a few good bottles of wine so that you can relax a little. Besides, you work outside of NY. If you were anything special you’d be here in the big leagues.

Who raised you people?

156 - yeah, I have a gardener and a housekeeper. Why is that so shocking? I have a house in SoCal, work a lot, and it's easier to pay someone to come once a week to take care of the yard and the cleaning.

I guess I'm not seeing your point. Does your secretary do work for you? Do you give her an annual review? If so, then I'm not sure how you and the partner are in such different positions with respect to her. It doesn't matter if you aren't the one who sets her salary - your partner probably isn't, either. You happen to occupy a higher position than the secretary in your relative chain of command - she is your subordinate. Part of having subordinates in the workplace is taking some responsibility for them when you can, and you are able to do so come holiday time.

And really, I think the $100 per year worked is hardly a model, and definitely not market.

228 - I am not a stranger to pulling all-nighters, or working long hours, you can't stereotype all secretaries as being lowly good for nothing slackers who don't earn their keep and treat their associates poorly.

I'm a first year associate, and have been with my secretary for only a couple of months. She doesn't do much for me (only expense reports) but she is nice.

Don't worry about cash. I am a secretary. Get her a high-quality, brand-name gift on clearance, such as a very fancy picture frame. We love luxury items -- no one needs to know you got it in the clearance section. Many associates do not give cash. I've gotten Lenox, I've gotten wine. I found that to be so nice because I did hardly anything for them.

235 - please don't pretend you work the same hours as associates. You don't. Staying late occasionally isn't what we do. And I didn't "stereotype all secretaries as being lowly good for nothing slackers who don't earn their keep and treat their associates poorly." I simply suggested that the differences in our pay have something to do with the differences in what's expected of us. It wasn't an across the board slam against secretaries, it was a pointed response to your suggestion that we trade bonuses.

I am so sick of this "we all do the same work" crap. No, we don't.

222 - I have not been passed over for partner. I am one of a handful that are up for partner this year. Now, Timmy, please explain why giving a very good, long-time secretary $1,000 as a holiday bonus is a dumb decision. [It astonishes me that people on this board can argue that $150/500/1,000 is a huge sum of money to give a secreatary, and at the same time vilify law firms for giving them a measly $20-30,000 bonus.]

232 - The word "dumb" is a fine expression; I just don't see how it applies to this situation. Junior associates/law students/college students/momma's boys need to understand that just stating a conclusion, no matter how many times, does not necessarily make it true. You need to state the issue, analyze the facts, explain your argument using these facts and then state your conclusion.

If you have trouble understanding this, I will type slower next time.

Heh, 238. Nicely played on several points. You're good people.

Hey # 238, $1000 to a secretary is usually done in cash yes? She probably wont report it as income which means she gets a full $1000

Me, an associate, need to pay huge tax on my bonus, about 50% effective if you live in NYC. meaning that that $1000 gift to my crappy secretary really cost me $2000 from my *massive* pre-tax 20k to 30k bonus

f*ck the secretaries I say

240 - That will probably cost you a $1,000 also - at least that looks like the going rate on eros-usa.com. However, I think you can get a tranny for about $200-300. I guess you get what you pay for.

240 - well, not really. Since you are paying the taxes on your bonus regardless of how you spend the post-tax dollars, your post-tax expenditures aren't costing you extra. The $1000 gift to your secretary costs you $1000.

238: Thank you.

To all the mean-spirited posters: fortunately, there are many more attorneys just like 238. I have four of them -- all litigators (a partner and three associates). They are bright, hard working, and YES -- very generous. :)

unless you are the employer, giving a secretary more than $200 is just silly.

243, I think it is safe to assume that you are a good secretary, since your attorneys, including the associates, are all generous. That's fantastic for both you and your attorneys, but don't make the mistake of thinking that all secretaries warrant as much generosity as you do.

My god, you people deserve your bad karma. Half of you who do give anything to your secretary only do so because you overheard some partner talking about it being the thing to do while you were licking their *ss. The classist, misogynist, self-absorbed tone of this thread makes people with actual functioning pre-frontal lobes sick.

What you give your assistant is between you and your assistant. He or she already knows better than anyone whether you are a generous person or a narcissistic d-bag. You can't change that assessment by writing a particular number on a check. Give a gift at Christmas because you feel blessed and want to share your gifts. If you don't want to share, go spend it on strippers or designer clothes or whatever else distracts you from your own failed character.

so much depends
upon

a red skimpy
dress

william careless williams

The consensus seems to be: If secretary is good, be generous. It is a way to show appreciation for the hard work and effort. (And those who have a good assistant know how invaluable they can be!) If secretary is not good (and we're hearing plenty of examples of those instances on this thread), then a small gift is fine. Even though gifts are not required, not giving anything would be poor form at most firms.

Holiday gifts are not lockstep. Consider them part merit-based (on the part of the assistant) and part level-based (partners usually will give more than associates).

~An associate who knows she is very lucky to have a really great assistant

If its merit based it is not a gift, it is profit sharing. The holidays are a time for gifts.

Okay, tell me straight.. is $125 gift card to Amazon.com and a small physical gift too cheap for a SoCal biglaw 3rd year?

I plan to give her something nice from Dee's Nuts.

250 - I think that sounds really nice.

For any associate that wants to give a gift to their secretary cash is always best. It makes it easier to either put it with cash to buy a much bigger item or you can just put it away until you really see something you really want. In this day and age there are too many retailers that are closing shop. So you might just be throwing away your money if you get a gift card and that store closes down.

It's really shameful to read some of these comments. Granted a secretary doesn't have a law degree but when your good to your secretary she will be the one going that extra mile to help you out. I know personally I have worked well into the night with my associates and partner until a deal is done.

Honestly for some associates that claim that their secretary is worthless and doesn't do any work isn't that your fault. As a secretary for 14 years I have to tell you I am disgusted by some secretaries. I do see some of them that sit there and play games all day and do all the things you have stated but at the end of the day that is your fault. When you have a secretary that is difficult or doesn't do any work bring it to his or her attention. Then if the shoddy work or lack of work continues duly note it on his/her review. If you get a shitty work product it's up to you to point it out and let him/her know it's not acceptable. If you continue to let these types of secretaries slide then your not doing anyone any good. That is how shitty assistants that don't do a damn thing or can't run software get by.

Also let's be for real many associates don't delegate any work to their secretary because they use that extra time working on that document to bring up their billable hours. There are also associates that don't give their secretary work because they just are not comfortable with the dynamic of having a subordinate. A secretary is a person just like you are. There is no need to treat them like a second class citizen. Just remember at the end of the day a good secretary will have her partner's ear and she can indeed direct work your way when you need the good old billable hours. So be as nasty as you want because that can surely come back and bite you in your ass. As a secretary I have directed work and I have covered my associates asses when they wanted to sneak off. So you will honestly get as good as you give.

234 - so is it common practice at your firm for associates to tip paras, and for paras to tip out office services, and for office services to tip out the janitor?

238 pwns the other posters. But I still question the wisdom of gifting $1,000 to a secretary as I don't give that to members of my own family. But if you've got the extra bank . . . can I work at your firm?

- Skadden Associate

secretubbies are fat

secretubbies are fat

Former Big!Law paralegal, current 3L.

When I was at my firm, the two partners I worked with each gave me a $300 gift card for a grand total of $600/year. Very awesome.

Didn't totally make up for the fact that I typically worked until midnight, but its nice to receive some appreciation from the people that you work for, because most of the time, as support staff, you don't receive appreciation from the firm at large.

Hate to break it to you, 258, but associates don't really get "appreciation from the firm at large," either. Bonuses, however big or small, sure as hell aren't given because the firm (or anyone in it) appreciates us. It's the barest minimum they think they have to pay us to keep us from leaving.

Eh, don't mind me. You'll find out soon enough.

253 - associates fault b/c the secretary sucks ass? Please. Secretaries are people and adults. We shouldn't have to tell them that playing solitaire all day long, while talking on their cell phone to their friends is not work acceptable. If they don't know that, me telling them isn't going to change a damn thing.

259—You get much larger bonuses and you get paid a lot more money. Even if that's not "appreciation," it makes a hell of a difference in your lifestyle.

I billed 2500 hours once, and guess what—I got the same shitty bonus as always, despite having worked more than twice the required number of billable hours. I believe my bonus for that year amounted to a grand total of $650.

That's half the reason I went to law school. If I'm going to bust my ass in the legal industry, I sure as shit am going to make more than $40K/yr. doing it.

Do associates have greater responsibilities? Sure. Are they under a lot more pressure? Of course. Do they have to engage their brain more? You betcha.

But, often times, the support staff works extremely long hours for less than half the pay. "Tipping" them at the end of the year goes a very, very long way.

52: "I will just be giving my usual dick in a box."

Cute, 52. Did you know that's what she calls you when you're in your office?

Oh, don't get me wrong at all 258/261, I am all for giving support staff cash at the end of the year. I'm just really, really tired of a lot of the "me too!" that goes on among secretaries and paralegals with respect to the amount of work and shit associates have to slog through. At the end of the day, my name, not the paralegal's, is on the document, and I'm the one with legal liability. Yeah, we get paid well, but there's an awful lot of shit that goes along with it.

Like I said, you'll find out soon enough. Enjoy 3L year, seriously.

It's the responsibility of the partners, not the associates, to compensate secretaries. But I don't mind giving Christmas gifts to secretaries, even fairly useless ones (which, unfortunately, most are), provided they are nice (which, fortunately, most are).

What's infuriating is being forced, on pain of serious reputational harm, to shell out $100+ on gift cards for secretaries who are both incompetent *and* blissfully obnoxious to junior/mid associates because they are chummy the partners and therefore can't be touched by associates.

It's the responsibility of the partners, not the associates, to compensate secretaries. But I don't mind giving Christmas gifts to secretaries, even fairly useless ones (which, unfortunately, most are), provided they are nice (which, fortunately, most are).

What's infuriating is being forced, on pain of serious reputational harm, to shell out $100+ on gift cards for secretaries who are both incompetent *and* blissfully obnoxious to junior/mid associates because they are chummy with the partners and therefore can't be touched by associates.

As someone who always felt valued by those with whom I worked, I never felt it was their place to give me a gift or bonus for the holidays. I was employed by the Firm and the Firm paid me well and gave me a yearly year-end bonus. In addition, because I expected to be treated as a professional and not as someone who performed menial, brainless work, I made it known at the onset of working with new associates that I did not participate in "Staff Appreciation Day." If you want to be treated with respect and as a professional, then you must have some respect for yourself and for the profession you have chosen.

Just curious, how much are Biglaw secretaries paid? I thought it was around $60-70K for the ones who have been around a long time, which most of them have ...

# 52
Thanks for the small Christmas gift.
Always wondered why you were always selected to play Tiny Tim in the Christmas play.
After getting a look at your gift, I now understand.

If bonuses were small, maybe regift? Or wrap your present in butcher paper? http://www.bettyconfidential.com/ar/h/a/a03120.html

24 - I don't know if this has been answered yet, and if it's redundant, I apologize, but I wanted to chime in here. I work for a firm, and in particular, for the whole office pretty much. Every year, the attorneys have gotten together, and from my understanding, everyone puts something in an envelope and they get Amex gift checks and give them to me as a gift. You have NO idea how much this is appreciated. I truly never expected this my first Christmas here, and even now, my fourth maybe(?), STILL have not come to expect it. Every year, I make a point to send out a thank you to them all. I have great working and personal relationships with my people and perhaps, and they know I have and always will go above and beyond for them - gift or no.

I would wait to see if someone "arranges" something, and if not, ask around and see if this type of thing is generally done. If not, speaking from my side of the coin, I can tell you, a small token of appreciation, particularly from those of us who generally don't work for one particular attorney, is one of the nicest things you all can do.

24 - I don't know if this has been answered yet, and if it's redundant, I apologize, but I wanted to chime in here. I work for a firm, and in particular, for the whole office pretty much. Every year, the attorneys have gotten together, and from my understanding, everyone puts something in an envelope and they get Amex gift checks and give them to me as a gift. You have NO idea how much this is appreciated. I truly never expected this my first Christmas here, and even now, my fourth maybe(?), STILL have not come to expect it. Every year, I make a point to send out a thank you to them all. I have great working and personal relationships with my people and perhaps, and they know I have and always will go above and beyond for them - gift or no.

I would wait to see if someone "arranges" something, and if not, ask around and see if this type of thing is generally done. If not, speaking from my side of the coin, I can tell you, a small token of appreciation, particularly from those of us who generally don't work for one particular attorney, is one of the nicest things you all can do.

49 - "what about other people in the office, like word processing people who might do more work for me than my secretary?"

Oh, this is just my opinion, but I say give 'em half your salary! lol! :)

265/266 here. To clarify, I didn't mean to say that most secretaries are useless. There are lots of good secretaries out there and they deserve their good names as well as the appreciation of the lawyers they work for.

But there are an astounding number of Biglaw secretaries who are both useless and generally unpleasant to associates -- these are typically the older secretaries who are chummy with the power partners, to whom they are like second wives.

253, take some grammar lessons-yikes.

I agree with 265/266 - there are many good secretaries who are pleasant and professional. But there are also large numbers who are just unpleasant and rude to associates because they feel they only have to be nice to partners.

I do also agree with a comment somewhere above about "useless" secretaries being partly the fault of associates. The thing is, we are so used to doing our own typing, editing the document even writing letters. So we tend to use our secretaries for the most menial tasks like entering time, processing expense reimbursements, making conference room/restaurant reservations, preparing address labels, etc. But there aren't that many menial tasks to do in a day! So what do you expect when your secretary has four hours free each day? They almost have no choice but to go online and play solitaire. What else would you have them do?

For secretaries, I think most reasonable principals are fine with you playing solitaire, reading online news or even chatting quietly on the phone. However (and this is the key), when you are approached by your principal (partner or associate) for help, you must be prepared to immediately cease your personal activity and attend to the request. You can go back to whatever it is you were doing as soon as you finish helping your principal (which will probably something quick and easy anyway).

Early this morning as I was reading this post, I realized that I had some end-year admin stuff to attend to. I went to tell my secretary to get started, when I noticed in my inbox that she had already printed out the required forms, with a post-it note on top indicating what remained for me to do. I sometimes truly think she can read my mind. This is really scary, my friends, considering that I spent the morning fantasizing about banging her.

While some of the comments on here are especially, and all too typically, graphic and intentionally offensive (perhaps a few are a bit funny), what disgusts me more than anything is an attitude which I've observed at my firm.

My firm known for its civilized (some might say bookish), friendly and collegial environment - and the vast majority of my fellow junior associates certainly fit those descriptions. Yet a surprising number of these smart and nice people have been grumbling (out loud, as if it would be a readily shared sentiment) about contributing to a gift pool established to give gifts to those in our secretarial pools. The financial burden? $50. How can someone make it well into his or her 20's, bright, highly educated and ostensibly well raised, and be so excessively parsimonious?

I was wondering if giving a couple scratch offs would be tacky

New Yorkers seem to be the only ones hung up on cash. I've been a biglaw secretary in DC for many years.

One time a male partner got me a gift certificate for a half-day of beauty at an expensive spa (facial, massage, pedicure, etc.). Another time two female associates got me a facial and massage (the associates chipped in, both signed one card). Another time three male associates chipped in and got me beauty services at a fancy salon (they all signed the same card). I love being treated like royalty at these expensive spas! When I get a massage or pedicure on my own, I go very cheap (I go to the cheap Vietnamese nail salons and pay $20 for a pedicure). Massages at these very fancy places cost a fortune.

One time a female attorney handed me a very large box. It contained a luxurious, designer robe. She could have re-gifted it -- who cares! I think these people want their secretary to feel pampered once in a while, and see the rich side of life once in a while, like they get to do. I've gotten crystal, picture frames, gift certificates for fine dining... Never cash. I love these gifts!

I think cash is something New Yorkers are hung up on.

(1) IT IS A GIFT: give it with an open heart, or don't. Note: not giving any year end gift at all WILL say a lot about you. (Some of these comments come from scary, little, mean, cheap individuals).
(2) there seem to many more small minded, child like, vulgar, self-absored momma's boy associates typing into this blog than lazy secretaries;
(3) if you type all your own work, and bill hours for it, it is not the fault of your secretary that "she doesn't do anything for me" (and imagine how thrilled the client is to pay $300-$800 an hour for a typyist);
(4) if you don't like your secretary, give her/him a lousy review stating specific examples of their lack of interest/breach of firm policy. don't use it as an end-of-year excuse to be a cheap skate;
(5) and if your resentment towards specific secretaries (that you feel don't work as hard as you, or as hard as they should), cause you to degrade anyone in that position: (a) you are the boss, do something about it; (b) if the position is eliminated, why that would make all you little 1st, 2nd, 3rd years the bottom of the food chain. and how would that sit with your precious wittle egos? it can be a very difficult job. and just as with attorneys, there are good and bad.
And here is some advice to anyone who doesn't like the sound of a "bridge and tunnel". This city, of which I am a native, has provided jobs, culture, fun, and a place to live for people from all over the world. If you don't like the sound of the natives, perhaps you should return home. If you feed a dog, it doesn't bite your hand. People that come here, receive opportunities/blessings, and can't appreciate what this city gives you (and its native sons/daughters) are less appreciate and less intelligent than a dog. go home. now.
merry christmas to all the kind, intelligent people who have written thoughtfully regarding this topic.

Weiners is nice, too!

Weiners is nice, too!

Would anyone fancy an old-fashioned mustache ride?

Here is a question:

What do you give assistants of the partners for whom you work? Specifically thinking of the ones that can help cover for you . . . or help funnel additional work your way, e.g., you know who would be good for this job XX associate.

284- My suggestion: Mustache ride (or bone sandwich)

What do you give assistants of the partners for whom you work?
________

Don't get her a half-day of beauty or anything big (as you would your own secretary), but do get her a bottle of wine or champagne in a beautiful gift bag, or a high-end bath gel/lotion set or a high-end Christmas cake or cookies.

Here is a question:

What do you give assistants of the partners for whom you work? Specifically thinking of the ones that can help cover for you . . . or help funnel additional work your way, e.g., you know who would be good for this job XX associate.

Depends on work performance and demands placed on the assistant. Senior partners should generously show monetary appreciation at the end of the year, $2-$5g, mid-year's, easily $500, first year's $100, maybe adding $50 per year of service. Forget the David towers of treats, keep it. If you want to spend less than $100, why not a spa treatment?

Re: tangible gifts - definitely use a little caution giving alcohol...it's kind of a shitty gift if you don't drink.

This all reminds me of the travesty of Chirstmas gifts that always came from my pre-law school boss (not at a firm). It was the only errand he did for himself all year, and he liked to have each person on his staff (there were 5 of us) come in to his office so he could watch us open our presents. Individually. I always got some kind of cut glass nightmare, his secretary usually got some kind of purse, and his two male assistants got full outfits (seriously - slacks, shirts, ties...matching). The idea of him standing in a department store, looking for our presents was the real gift, as he was essentially incapable of doing any such thing for himself for the rest of the year. Fun stuff.

I propose giving herpes; I think giving syphilis or gonorrhea is acceptable to but if you want to make a lasting impression, herpes is the way to go

I am surprised to learn that the common practice is giving cash. I did gift certificates to Bloomingdale's as Christmas and secretary's day gifts last year and this spring.

My thinking on the subject is that, as an associate, I am not directly responsible for secretary compensation. I have no idea what she makes, and I have no idea whether the firm gives her a bonus. I would consider it pretty rude to ask.

My feeling is that a secretary gift, from an associate, at least, is an actual Christmas gift, not a tip like you might give a doorman. So cash seems really tacky.

291 - it's funny that you think cash and Bloomingdale's gift cards are so different from each other. (Psst....store gift cards are essentially cash you can only spend at one place. See how that works?)

What should I get for my secretary that won't prompt people to think...wait....know that I'm balling the eff out of her? Is a Victoria's Secret credit card with a $2,000 limit subtle enough?

286 -- Thanks.

I think I've settled on an amazon gift card of a minor denomination.

286 -- Thanks.

I think I've settled on an amazon gift card of like 25 bucks.

286 -- Thanks.

I think I've settled on an amazon gift card of like 25 bucks.

286 -- Thanks.

I think I've settled on an amazon gift card of like 25 bucks.

I had a fantastic secretary my first year and I gave her $150 in cash. The next year, I had a new secretary for just part of the year. She was fine, though not nearly as good as my first secretary. I noticed that she often complained of the office being cold, so I bought her a very pretty, drape-y scarf that she could bundle up in at the office. She was incredibly appreciative. Sometimes, all you need to do is listen to who works with you and you can figure out a good present for them. Also a nice present if you're really stuck: something nice for his or her children or pet.

Don't be cheap, people. It's a bad trait. If you go out and blow $100 on drinks or dinner, you can certainly pony up a decent present for your assistant.

286 -- Thanks.

I think I've settled on an amazon gift card of like 25 bucks.

Bloomingdales is way out of the price range of most assistants. As is Saks. As is Barneys.

The way the economy is, even Lord & Taylor is an iffy thing.

If you choose to give, please give cash. (AmEx cash cards charge a fee.) We have loans, too.

Thanks,
Your Assistant

P.S. And if you decide on giving gift certificates/store cards - I sincerely hope your next bonus will be paid in the same currency.

I can tell how well you can do without a secretary by the number of times you keep submitting your posts.

Granted, I can also tell how competent a secretary is using the same method.

I have a brilliant idea: lets put all the competent secretaries with the competent (and generous - the competent ones always are) attorneys together, and put the dumdums together. That would also facilitate and simplify potential staff cuts.

Why are the competent attorneys always generous? Sillies! It's because they're competent and want to stay that way - a loyal secretary helps.

Tipping secretaries to do their job is stupid. Gift giving to people who are not family or close friends is also stupid. Just be nice to people, let them buy their own gifts, and get on with life.

I refuse to engage in any of this gift giving nonsense as I think it cheapens the relationship to one like btwn a rich guy and a bellhop. I think a secretary would rather have a friendly attorney as a boss that $100.

Instead of associates giving gifts like this, partners should pay secretaries properly (which happens at most big law firms - where else can you make $90K a year on a high school education while sitting at a comfortable office desk in a law firm... queue the "Spitzer hooker made more than that" jokes).

Tipping secretaries to do their job is stupid. Gift giving to people who are not family or close friends is also stupid. Just be nice to people, let them buy their own gifts, and get on with life.

I refuse to engage in any of this gift giving nonsense as I think it cheapens the relationship to one like btwn a rich guy and a bellhop. I think a secretary would rather have a friendly attorney as a boss that $100.

Instead of associates giving gifts like this, partners should pay secretaries properly (which happens at most big law firms - where else can you make $90K a year on a high school education while sitting at a comfortable office desk in a law firm... queue the "Spitzer hooker made more than that" jokes).

You are a bunch of the most arrogant, selfish people ever. No wonder everyone hates lawyers.

"$100 per year I've been at my firm" PLUS a small physical gift as well??? Holy shit, my secy really must have loved my clueless "Scrooge" ass. When and where did this particular guide come out?

305 here - forgot most important part. I try to look out for those who work with me and help make my life easier. I've learned that it's much better to do this throughout the year as opposed to enumerated special occasions. Kinda like the C/E Catholics - what's the point of going to mass on Christmas and Easter if you don't go at any other time. Just saying...

276, serious or not, truly funny!

It's true that tips are degrading, but under capitalism they're part of a worker's salary. Associates are NOT in the same class as secretaries, and many secretaries are not well paid. Just help organize a secretaries' union, and we won't need the xmas presents.

303: Nobody's forcing you to do anything. Everybody will, however, think you're cheap for not giving your sec'y a present.

I'm a secretary. IMO, gifts really should be a function of how much we do work for you that's not firm-related. Once you have me handle your personal travel, correspondence, and errands -- and to the extent I go above and beyond the call of duty -- I think you have to pony up. While it's true I'm an employee of a FIRM and not the ATTORNEYS to whom I'm assigned, there's "doing the job" and then there's "going above and beyond." Which would you prefer I do?

These pretzels are making my secretary fat and ungrateful.

I knew pretzels in high school that were firsTTT at HYSCCN. It was no big deal.

(Doesn't that just about sum up this entire blog?)

Oh yeah, and the nickel mustache rides!!

At my firm, secretaries work for associates, partners and principals at the same time. For associates, the work is long and mostly drone-like, but gradually builds into a more strategic, relationship-based advisory role with clients. I think that the most important thing that I've learned in that progression is that relationships are both tenuous and may be lucrative and that, even if you're tempermentally negative, it pays dividends to treat absolutely everyone with a great deal of respect.

You never know when your clients secretary will have the CEO's ear, and even general impressions matter. Likewise, law firm secretaries are often at the nexus of many crucial relationship and information networks. Reward them generously, both financially and with genuine praise, and they will fall over themselves in order to reciprocate.

Most associates are overworked, angry, empty husks of human beings. That's a serious advantage to anyone that can present a better face to the world (even if your personal life is a wreck and you weave in and out cycles of depression), stands to reap the generous reputational reward.

N. Macchiavelaw

The monetary value of my secretary's gift will have no relation to the chances I'm getting laid off. We associates still make bank compared to our secretaries, and they're just as likely to lose their jobs. If we cut back on gifts for our secretaries, tips at dinner and the salon, and bonuses for the babysitter, we're letting this bad situation trickle down to people who are in an even more precarious situation than we are.

Here's a thought. Instead of a gift, give your assistant a little respect. You'd be surprised at how attentive he/she could be to your clerical needs if you treat your assistant like a human being instead of a tool.

I hope all of you cheap bastards who don't believe a hard-working secretary deserves at least a 5% bonus, whether you are partners or associates, all get herpes, you pass it on to your undersexed, tight-assed wives (or husbands), they divorce you, then you marry a younger spouse who gives you syphilis. Laywers are sometimes unjustifiably the most self-centered, greedy, and elitist people in this country. And, of course, there are lawyers who are generous and compassionate. Which are you?

"And, of course, there are lawyers who are generous and compassionate."

Screenshot or it didn't happen.

Who would have thought big-time NY attorneys could be so cheap? I work in Chicago, which you New Yorkers consider to be an inferior city, yet my attorneys are far more generous than the lot of you! My partner gives me $2,000, and my associates pony up in amounts ranging from $300 to $100. Thanks to all of you for showing me that my assignments value my support!

Who would have thought big-time NY attorneys could be so cheap? I work in Chicago, which you New Yorkers consider to be an inferior city, yet my attorneys are far more generous than the lot of you! My partner gives me $2,000, and my associates pony up in amounts ranging from $300 to $100. Thanks to all of you for showing me that my assignments value my support!

Secretary here. I've been working for attorneys longer than most of you have been alive. In reading these comments, it's fairly obvious which of you will be highly successful and which of you will never rise above mediocrity. If you have a great secretary and do not give her/him a gift, chances are, on December 26th, you'll still have a great secretary. If you base a "gift" on an equation, well, that's just sad.

Client here! My excellent secretary, who spent many years working for a partner in a law firm, led me to y'all. I was delighted to receive, quite by accident, a disbursement detail attached to my bill showing the enormous time attributed to associates for word processing charges. My secretary, to whom I can afford to be generous, was very quick to read the detail and inform me of the results. I will be speaking to the appropriate partner to discuss writing off the time (easily calculated by the disbursement charges) for associate word processing time. Honest associates should be working from hard copies.

I will be sharing this information, along with upcoming results, with my colleagues and friends who receive monthly invoices from law firms nationwide.

Please also note: Corporate firms welcome employment applications from all secretaries/administrative assistans who have law firm experience. Your secretaries are marvellous!

--an enlightened client

$100/52 weeks = $1.92/week.
I bet most people spend more on their coffee each week. Just a thought.

Hey, you people commenting about secretaries' salaries, just remember, you walk in the door making 100K, it took me 25 years to make 60K.

321, laid-off-secretary-due-to-"staff-reorganization" here. It would help very much if [all] corporations posted actual job openings for legal secretaries, AND not pull them from the Chicago market before filling them because "business needs have changed." There are a LOT of us out there now with great resumes and no place to keep them viable. Give your colleagues a nudge? Thanks.

I know one thing for sure in this market: I'm sure not going to worry about what an associate is going to pay me as a bonus in some future job, and I'm positive he won't have the time to fantasize about me esp. while he's being yelled at by his partner in his partner's office (which his partner's secretary will be able to hear and tell me about) for doing such a mediocre job in between making like he's fantasizing about his secretary. So, heh. And to all the associates who hide their true feelings and prejudices about secretaries and give generously in the Christmas spirit, THANK YOU.

Merry Christmas! and a Happy Boo-Hoo Year!

323: Did you complete four years of undergrad and suffer through three years of law school? Are you burdened by $200K of student loans? You make it seem as though anyone making more money than you owes you something. We are talking about gifts here, not salary redistribution.

325, yes you do owe your secretary something: respect. If she's been WORKING for 25 years, that means she's old enough to be your mother. Do you talk to your mother like that? If $200K of student loans is too much for you to handle, 1) why did you borrow that which you cannot afford to pay back; 2) why then is your poor judgment your secretary's problem; and 3) would you rather have suffered for 25 years working for pennies compared to your rich lawyer who bills $400-600+/hr, than for 3 years in law school so you can bill $400-600/hr? You do the math. For all you lawyers losing your jobs, losing your bonus in full or altogether, or having your salary frozen, this is your first taste of real time failure and humiliation. For all you same attorneys complaining about gifting those who help you pay back your ill-conceived loans, the word from us is, DEAL WITH IT. The zeroed out bank account of a secretary is no less devastating than the zeroed out bank account of a lawyer. RESPECT for your secretary = RESPECT for you. A business relationship. If you don't see that, you probably talk to your mother like she should be grateful she suffered for nine months carrying YOU, suffered for 18 years of your childhood, plus 7+ more years of you and your higher education. That 25+ years and counting of suffering for YOU, brat.

326 YOU rock

321. Thank you, 321. I'm showing your comment to my partner and colleagues.

326 nailed it. How old are you people? First years with no appreciation for a good admin. (and born with silver spoons no doubt)? I have to say the bloggers with nasty, NASTY comments are going straight to H-E-double toothpicks. How dare you degrade a woman like that? We realize our jobs have changed, but have put in long, hard years and deserve a little gratitude. And I don't mean that in the monetary sense.

326 nailed it. How old are you people? First years with no appreciation for a good admin. (and born with silver spoons no doubt)? I have to say the bloggers with nasty, NASTY comments are going straight to H-E-double toothpicks. How dare you degrade a woman like that? We realize our jobs have changed, but have put in long, hard years and deserve a little gratitude. And I don't mean that in the monetary sense.

FIRST!!!!

A good secretary is hard to find. In my career of some 30 years, I've only had two. One was in -house and the other was in private practice and I only worked with her for about a year before a partner, recognizing how good she was, spirited her away. A good secretary should be greatly cherished. They make all the difference. However, in the 30 years of working as lawyer there have only been these two good ones. The rest were dregs. Pains in the ass, a lawsuit waiting to happen, mine field makers who do not do any work, changed letters without warning, skipped 3-4 lines of a claim without warning right in the middle, and just problems. Having mastered the art of word processing and personal e-mail folders I have freed myself from the tyranny of the secretary. I can do as many drafts as I want, change things as I please so that my work to my satisfaction and I can find files whenever I want.
Young lawyers. Free yourselves!

Dear Secy's:

Since some of you seem to be reading this post. Please keep in mind that IRC § 102(c) requires you to pay income tax on your holiday "bonus" or "gift." Cause honestly, the IRS knows that this gift isn't disinterested and is motivated by your employee status. So, keep whining about what you deserve, but don't forget it is TAXABLE INCOME!!!

Number 333, you made me LOL.

Im a seventh year. My secretary is dumb and lazy. i give her about 200 every year in the hopes that she will change. For number 10, you should split your gift 75/25. The new secretary is the one you are trying to inspire to do good work in the upcoming year. These gifts are not tips for the prior year, but incentive dough for the next year.

Since secretaries are reading this, please note that you need to stop looking at how much attorneys make in salary and bonus to decide how much you THINK you should get. And stop complaining to attorneys about how much you make in general . . . i, for one, don't care.

332, as a secretary I appreciate your thoughtful post.

What has always mystified me, in hearing complaints for the 35 years I have worked full time as a secretary about how hard it is to find a good secretary, management has never been willing to require a professional secretary certificate or a four-year college degree from every secretary they hire. And why is that? Because what employers want, in the end, is to hire them for as cheaply as possible, hence the HS minimum, 1-5 year experience requirement for most secretarial advertised today. In this new economy, regardless of education and experience, they will lower salaries and cancel bonuses for secretaries, assuming loyalty and diligence will naturally follow. Also mystifying to me in the present is the same complaint about so few good secretaries when they have multiple skills tests (which I always pass with excellent scores) and sharp recruiters, who reluctantly pass a skilled applicant on to talk to a senior partner or associate who admits to being unorganized and unprepared to interview a secretary. I interviewed for assistant to the top man and the manager partner of a law firm recently, and not only did I never see either one of them, but their screeners the recruiter described as not knowing what they were looking at. She was right; it was the most stupid interview I ever had, because they admitted to me they did not know what the two top men really wanted. Do you see what I'm getting at?

Folks, you have to know how to use a secretary. It is a life skill. One basic thing to remember is like with anyone or anything for that matter, each secretary has her limitations. Likewise, the secretary has to know how to educate her assignments as to what she can do, and bring the skills. If you have been dealt a less than satisfactory one, do not make it her problem unless she demanded to work for you.

Skills training is on the rise at some firms. But even that cannot suddenly make up for what years of applying a most provincial set of skills, and then assignments keep changing for your assistant, going from one person to another. I'm not asking anyone to feel sorry for us, but to have awareness and hopefully be able to work with your secretary and her supervisors in a much more constructive way than to shut your door and give up.

333, describing your secretary as dumb and lazy does not help your career. Just as a parent should never advertise his own kid is an idiot because it is a bad reflection on you, trying praising your secretary (without sarcasm please!) for something and anything, like you would start praising a faltering offspring. There is a saying that if you find someone boring, for example, you in fact are boring. Build a better business relationship with her, and this habit will help you with transitioning and adjusting to the next secretary which will inevitably occur.

Also, 333, I floated in my last firm, and was distressed to hear repeatedly how glad they were I was assigned that day, because they were never happy with most of the others' work. Oh for goodness' sake, stop complaining about my colleagues to me. I care to a certain point, but I cannot do a thing about it for you. The answer is not to keep firing secretaries, or punishing them in some way for not being your ideal. It's the firm that hired them at the skill level they have, and you know you can't vent your spleen at your superiors.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope this helps.

333, 335 here. I meant to address 332 and 334. A good secretary corrects her own mistakes.

But since you mention taxes, I'm in the clear again this year as I was one of many laid off "surplus" secretaries over a year ago. That's two bonuses, two monetary gifts now gone poof. I'll be sure to pay my unemployment taxes though. *smile*

332: If you bill your client for typing, you're stealing from that client. Client's shouldn't be charged for lawyer time spent typing when they're charged for word processing time. That's a double charge. You're just a greedy crook and a discredit to your profession.

I don't trust my secretary to address envelopes. What shuld she get?

337, no it is not stealing from clients to bill for "typing." Many, if not most, of us type as we draft. It would be stealing from the clients if I were to write a motion for summary judgment in longhand (a process which would take 2x as long) so that I could give it to my secretary to type up.

That being said, when I enter my edits in hard copy, I do give it to my secretary. But this is only because she is highly competent and I trust her. When I had a very poor secretary, I could not give her edits. Why? Because she would mess things up, delete things, not enter edits, etc. Reviewing her work to correct her mistakes took me more time than to enter my own edits. (And what got filed was ultimately my responsibility, and we both knew it.) So, she got what she wanted: by her incompetence, she trained me not to give her work. Oddly, was surprised when a year or so later, was let go from the firm.

The lesson: firms need to hire good, capable, competent people at all levels. Attorneys need to spend sufficient time with their assistants to make sure their assistant knows what is expected of him/her. Honest reviews should be give: the good ones deserve to be given praise and to stand out from the bad ones (esp. in this economy). And we all need to be professional and appreciative of those who take their job -- whatever job it is -- seriously.

~An associate who is so happy to now have a really good secretary

339, I'll drink to that!

What a pack of greedy little feks you are! You're all overpaid to begin with and couldn't put together a set of exhibits to a motion or prepare for a deposition without hours of handholding by your paralegals and secretaries -- who get squat for pay and bonuses BTW -- and now you want to worm out of a pittance of a year end token gift. Go drown yourselves in your own crap -- you're so full of it!

What a pack of greedy little feks you are! You're all overpaid to begin with and couldn't put together a set of exhibits to a motion or prepare for a deposition without hours of handholding by your paralegals and secretaries -- who get squat for pay and bonuses BTW -- and now you want to worm out of a pittance of a year end token gift. Go drown yourselves in your own crap -- you're so full of it!

What a pack of greedy little feks you are! You're all overpaid to begin with and couldn't put together a set of exhibits to a motion or prepare for a deposition without hours of handholding by your paralegals and secretaries -- who get squat for pay and bonuses BTW -- and now you want to worm out of a pittance of a year end token gift. Go drown yourselves in your own crap -- you're so full of it!

What a pack of greedy little feks you are! You're all overpaid to begin with and couldn't put together a set of exhibits to a motion or prepare for a deposition without hours of handholding by your paralegals and secretaries -- who get squat for pay and bonuses BTW -- and now you want to worm out of a pittance of a year end token gift. Go drown yourselves in your own crap -- you're so full of it!

What a pack of greedy little feks you are! You're all overpaid to begin with and couldn't put together a set of exhibits to a motion or prepare for a deposition without hours of handholding by your paralegals and secretaries -- who get squat for pay and bonuses BTW -- and now you want to worm out of a pittance of a year end token gift. Go drown yourselves in your own crap -- you're so full of it!

What a pack of greedy little feks you are! You're all overpaid to begin with and couldn't put together a set of exhibits to a motion or prepare for a deposition without hours of handholding by your paralegals and secretaries -- who get squat for pay and bonuses BTW -- and now you want to worm out of a pittance of a year end token gift. Go drown yourselves in your own crap -- you're so full of it!

What a pack of greedy little feks you are! You're all overpaid to begin with and couldn't put together a set of exhibits to a motion or prepare for a deposition without hours of handholding by your paralegals and secretaries -- who get squat for pay and bonuses BTW -- and now you want to worm out of a pittance of a year end token gift. Go drown yourselves in your own crap -- you're so full of it!

This is 332 - Billing is flat rate not hours.