proskauer's a dump

dump like a truck

We already knew Proskauer was EPIC FAIL.

Everyone's miserable here. The axe will drop again. From what I'm hearing, it's just a matter of time - or, more specifically, a few months (even possibly a few weeks).

"...slightly disappointing confrontation with reality if you're in LA."

Was it even considered a possibility that a NY firm would pay its LA office more than its NY office?

I wonder when (if) the legal market rebounds, how many Proskauer associates will be fighting to be the first ones out the exit.

Proskauer's hurting. Obviously, these bonuses show they expect to survive throughout the year. However, there will be more sacrifices to come. I would not be surprised if Proskauer froze salaries, canned more younger associates and withdraw more offers.

This bonus talk is barf-inducing. I was at Thelen and now I have no job. Your bonuses are huge, even if they're half what they normally are. How about some holiday spirit. Just be thankful for your already obscenely overpaying job.

6 - That's exactly what O'Melveny did:

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/12/associate_bonus_watch_law_firm.php

Eleventh!

Proskauer pays full stated bonuses to less than half of its associates. Someone should post a chart showing which firms are truly "lockstep" and which firms are completely full of shit and silently pay only based on minimum hours.

10 - Isn't OMM an LA based firm? Makes sense that they would pay their main office the same, if not more.; not analogous to Proskauer, or any other BigLaw but Gibson or Latham.

@5 -- we should have bailed when the economy was good. The Boston office is full of tools and i'm not describing the IP Group, nor the Fund Group. There is a quasi-bankruptcy a$$hat partner here who is a jagoff to everyone, especially female associates. I dread coming to work each day, and am barely thankful that I still have a job...

Latham, lol

@14 -- you're absolutely right. I interviewed with the "junior capital" group a while back and one of the partners gave me a fucking reading assignment and told me to report back on Monday with my findings (it was a Friday interview).

Hey, PR associates: Did Proskauer abandon its proposed move to a lockstep bonus system from the “billable hours plus firm citizenship model”? I'd imagine that they did. If so, I'd also imagine that it's almost impossible to get the bonus since the firm’s bonus qualifications used to be a smoke and mirrors combination of high billable hours plus subjective donkey-pooh like “firm citizenship”. If the firm did abandon the move to a lockstep bonus structure, I would imagine partners are going to use their discretion to lower bonuses heavily this year (in addition to probably raising the billable hours minimum to even qualify for the market bonus). What's the inside word?

This place is even more of a hole than Jones Dei.

16- what did you do with that one?

@19 -- I took the test, got the offer and rejected it. I was told that this person had a reputation for doing this. Great guy.

Proskauer's 60 layoffs (attorneys and staff), and about 1,700 others, are included in the BigLaw Layoff Tracker at http://www.lawshucks.com (ATL is the original source of the Proskauer news). We're saving room for another round after the first of the year

17: Though I guess anything could change at any time, at this point Proskauer is lockstep bonus -- no billable hours minimums or thresholds.

12: Feel free to bash Proskauer as you wish, but get your facts straight first.

Cravath scale is not across all PR offices

No salary freeze at Proskauer.

14 - not defending said partner (whoever he or she is), but i think its obvious your a disillusioned former associate. No harm there, but when you make posts like that you naturally implicate current female associates who work with said partner as the "poster" (likely a small group) who probably want to hang on to their job in this economy. Way to add more stress to their already stressful lives to get your pitiful revenge.

Remarkable levels of nonsense. Proskauer paid market bonuses across its offices in a horrible economy. Does anyone really think a NY based firm would follow the odd decision OMM made? I can't believe I'm even wasting energy typing this.

25 - Yes, I do believe that Proskauer will freeze associate pay. (and undertake other drastic measures). Proskauer Rose was the first and still one of the only firms to fire STUBS who were ONLY there for 8 WEEKS! This firm is in dire financial straits. I have spoken with a couple of partners at my firm and the word is that Proskauer has dug itself a whole from which it will take a LONG time to dig out. I send my prayers to all the young associates there.

26 is an idiot. Proskauer has already told its associates there will be no pay freeze. Which AoL would know if it actually ever did any digging.

proskauer deserves everything they get. they're all smug a-holes with chips on their shoulders.

All - PR pays "market" in NY, BOS and LA - i.e., Cravath's scale.

The new Chicago office cashes in on the "market" because management promised associates that moved NY based compensation.

DC is less than market - again. No special bonus last year. Less than a Half Skadden this year.

The rest of the offices, who knows? It's assumed they all make much less than the other offices (what is the market in Boca, Newark and New Orleans these days?)

24- '09 compensation is to be determined. Do you know something that everyone else does not?

26: Normally I would have responded that Proskauer is on a Nov-Oct fiscal year (so it makes sense that they are one of the first to layoff en masse) and that stating opinions as fact based on "the word" (whatever the hell that means) is just irresponsible, but since you used CAPS so strategically, you have me convinced. I'd love to hear what other "drastic measures" everyone can look forward to.

All - PR pays "market" in NY, BOS and LA - i.e., Cravath's scale.

The new Chicago office cashes in on the "market" because management promised associates that moved NY based compensation.

DC is less than market - again. No special bonus last year. Less than a Half Skadden this year.

The rest of the offices, who knows? It's assumed they all make much less than the other offices (what is the market in Boca, Newark and New Orleans these days?)

24- '09 compensation is to be determined. Do you know something that everyone else does not?

27 - Proskauer also told a few 2007 summer associates that they had offers to start in 2008. Unfortunately, Proskauer (for whatever reasons, probably financial) withdrew these offers shortly thereafter. This occured before any of the December layoffs. I wouldn't believe everything Proskauer initially tells its employees.

26 - what insurance defense firm do you work at and how do they know so much about Proskauer?

I'm confused. Is there a pay freeze or not? Or has nothing been decided at this point?

whats wrong with insurance defense? at least everyone at those firms know theyre not losing their jobs...

Was there a bonus memo that was sent around?

proskauer=latham

i agree with 35. im a big law casualty and now im jealous of all my friends in ID that still have jobs and arent fearing losing them..

37 - You have it wrong. It is Skadden=Gibson>>>>>>Latham

I hate Proskauer and everything it stands for, especially the Boston office.

hey 40, don't be such a douche bag. the Boston office has many groups and many decent people (partners and associates). i'm not agreeing or disagreeing with 14, but at least s/he had the decency to exclude those groups that s/he didn't know anything about.

better yet, get a life. if you can't offer anything more constructive then whining like a third grader in the playground, then i feel pretty sorry for you.

If you do not select Jonathan Lee Riches as ATL lawyer/commenter of the year, violent inmates will steal his gold jesus cross. You do not want to be responsible for that.

Firms that fire stubs for "economic" reasons shouldn't be giving out bonuses. You're either hurting financially or not, lawyers = horrible managers.

ATL needs to maintain an ongoing ranking of the Asshat100 for the biggest tool partners in Biglaw.

SO IS LATHAM STILL THE ONLY DUMP THAT HAS FROZEN SALARIES?

I truly feel sorry for all you east coast and west coast BigLaw associates. As you ponder your futures you must be feeling just like a porn starlet looking over her script for the day's shoot:

DAP
A2M - multiple
Salad toss x 13
DAP merry-go-round
A2M - multiple
DAP to gape
Bukkake finish x 13

My condolences. Losing one's dignity is surely a tragedy. Of course, nobody forced you into this business in the first place.

46 - um what? You are a tad frightening and watch way too much porn. Save your pity, we are just fine thx. Even in this toilet economy we have the luxury of complaining about 5 figure bonuses and razor thin layoffs. Better than being stuck in some crappy job in flyoverland.

Proskauer has NOT told its associates that there will be no pay freezes, either officially or unofficially. This doesn't matter much to the class of 2000 and more senior associates, since Proskauer no longer gives raises past eighth year.

And I hope that everyone realizes that all of the bonus cuts, layoffs, and salary freezes out there are happening because firms know that their rainmaking partners have zero loyalty and will jump ship at the first sign that some other firm will give them $7.50 more per year. Kind of sobering to realize that kids starting out in their career are getting canned so that some fat Napoleons will still make over $4 million per year, as they have for the last fifteen years. Some profession.

Don't worry, 46. We haven't felt any pain from the PR partners' old, tiny, shriveled pricks for some time now.

Spoke with an in-the-loop partner in McDermott's DC office... There are problems, real problems. Word is that BB and DR will have an all-associate meeting after the New Year; it wont be pretty.

But shit, I'm busy and am sick of all the slackers in trial, etc. billing nothing and taking home more pay then me. Its about time they get the axe.

50 - what problems? More associates are going to be fired? Will the meeting be for just DC or other offices too?

50 and 51 - Ask Elie to start a McDermoTTT thread so you can discuss.

Proskauer Rose was the first and still one of the only firms to fire STUBS who were ONLY there for 8 WEEKS! This firm is in dire financial straits.

__________________________________________

This doesn't reflect dire financial straights; it reflects their standard operating procedure, even in the best of time.

Proskauer Rose was the first and still one of the only firms to fire STUBS who were ONLY there for 8 WEEKS! This firm is in dire financial straits.

__________________________________________

This doesn't reflect dire financial straights; it reflects their standard operating procedure, even in the best of times.

@9 -- Thank you! I get tired of hearing these dicks whine about having to "settle" for a 5-figure bonus in addition to their 6-figure salary.

Thank goodness the law students and first years posting here don't actually run businesses. There are so many just plain stupid statements here it's hard to believe. For instance, do you really think a firm in "dire financial straits" looks to save itself by laying off some stubs, or even 35 attorneys out of over 700? And then goes and pays bonuses (which have no hours requirement, FYI)? Are you that much of an idiot? Or, how about the whole idea that laying off some stubs is such a big deal -- the most self-obsessed, myopic, ignorance-revealing comment repeatedly made on this site, that could only be coming from stubs themselves. If you are a large law firm, and your attrition crawled to a halt because of the economy, and your corporate group is very slow (yes, an unfortunate development but one that tends to happen during recessions without causing firms to collapse, believe it or not), does it make sense to keep a bloated first year class sitting around doing nothing for up to two years? Hey 26 and 43, would you keep paying your dry cleaner every week even if you didn't bring him and clothes to clean? Is it really that important to hold onto a few know-nothing recent law students who won't be doing any meaningful work for at least a year? And, I mean, important to those outside this site's readership. Bunch of jackasses.

56, firing the stubs was a big deal b/c of the following:

1. they said it was performance based but didn't even give them more than a couple of months to evaluate them--the firings were likely uninformed at best, arbitrary at worst (and apparently based on 2-year old summer associate reviews)
2. the stubs are particularly vulnerable b/c having relied on the prospect of being employed for at least a year, they moved to a new city and signed a lease and now are left out in the cold. they would of course have been better off never relying on Proskauer in the first place.
3. the stubs are probably the least likely to find alternative employment since their firm didn't bother to train them to actually evaluate their skills.
4. the stubs have the most debt of cohort of lawyers.
5. for all of the above reasons, recruits are going to be extra wary of Proskauer--they really sacrificed the long-term health of the firm to save a few bucks.

57 - briefly

1. even if the stubs were told it was performance based (and that certainly was not the reason given to the public), and even if you're right that they were uninformed and arbitrary . . . wait for it . . . who effing cares except, again, the stubs themselves? so a potential genius stub got laid off. well, that genius wouldn't be generating any revenue for a year to come if not more, and then he or she would be one untrained inexperienced midlevel. do you see where this is going? this is business, not a charity.

2. yes, those are bad circumstances. it's also tough for a more senior attorney with kids, tuitions, and a mortgage who gets laid off. who do you lay off? or do you keep everyone on board, because it's a charity?

3. again, reality calling. train them on what? there is very little business coming in the door, or haven't you heard. how do you evaluate their skills when there isn't enough work for all of them?

4. see 2 above.

5. no, mr. magoo. long-term health involves forecasting the amount of work expected to come in the door and right-sizing your headcount based on that estimate. the recruiting impact that the layoff might have is of relatively little significance, as time will show. go searching through greedy associates archives for talk about the impending death of lord knows how many firms after they cut associates during the last recession. those firms are still around and they, shockingly, are able to hire quality.

56/58: How long have you been a partner at PR? Glad your PPP is nice and healthy this year while you lay people off.

#58's response is exactly what I would expect from a smug Proskauer partner. I wonder how smug he'll be when Proskauer goes under and he's banging on the doors of an ID firm for a job as an associate?

58 - you know who else it matters to? Law students considering which of multiple offers to take. Let it be known that you screw your incoming first years like that, and watch your recruiting take a nose dive. Seriously - given the choice between Proskauer and a peer firm that hasn't recently fired first year stubs, which do you think a law student will choose? And do you think that might affect the firm, long term?

#61, given that this crappy economy will probably be around for 2 years I think law students will be lucky to have one good offer and after 2 years no one will remember what Proskauer did. No one remembers all the people Skadden fired in the early 90s or around 2000 do they?

Can someone tell me what a STUB is? Is it a stupid untrained baby, as in the first years who come to work at big firms like Proskauer thinking they don't need to work weekends and feel entitled to enormous bonuses for simply showing up? If Proskauer was smart, they'd use this opportunity to get rid of the rest of the lazy associates who are completely ungrateful that they are still employed in this horrific economy.

#63, Don't worry. Proskauer should be cutting more attorneys and staff in the new year.

#64, i'll be watching from my cozy office, possibly using my bonus as a seat cushion, to see if that's true, but i happen to believe that's just speculation built on fear.

" Seriously - given the choice between Proskauer and a peer firm that hasn't recently fired first year stubs, which do you think a law student will choose? And do you think that might affect the firm, long term?"

Yeah, good point. All those law students will work at Skadden. Because Skadden will be hiring an incoming class of 650 next year! The world has changed my know-it-all friend. There are more law students than openings at biglaw. No firm is affected long term, or even short term, in any meaningful, material way by law students' reactions to things like laying off stubs in the midst of an economic cataclysm, or paying bonuses based on hours instead of lockstep, or every other variation in personnel decisions and treatment from one firm to another that many posters here seem to think signify the demise of these generally successful businesses. But maybe you're right, maybe this time, finally, despite all the evidence to the contrary from every other recession that came before this one, the future of law firms will be put in jeopardy because they won't be able to recruit sufficiently capable new hires from a flooded supply of law school grads.

All of us corporate people are screwed. Every one of us. Unless your sleeping with a partner or you have a unique specialty, you will be gone by fall of 2009, because theres no way anyone will be billing enough to remain profitable (whether it be 2 months ago, now, or 2 months from now, everyone will be in the same boat soon). My advice is to start becoming the firm expert on admiralty law or some shit that noone else knows anything about. I'm at McDermott. Shoot me. And happy holidays.

If you think that Proskauer will be able to recruit top talent next year you are INSANE. Proskauer is the Cadwalader of this year = no one that is qualified to work at biglaw will go there because they will have other offers.

Proskauer is almost dead. Round 2 of layoffs seems just around the corner.

In this economy many associates left after receiving bonuses. Get out now if you can. This ship may be going down.

Who fires a STUBB? Oh yea ... only Proskauer!

I'm a 1L who will be clerking for a judge this summer. I am somewhat interested in labor and I heard Proskauer has an adequate labor practice. Should I consider them or are they, as 69 says, one of the ships about to go down?

71 - Consider Proskauer only if you would enjoy getting fired seven weeks into your employment. Classy joint...