Second

Is Hofstra even accredited?

First to say.... Welcome back Elie.

I think.

Second

First to say first, although I am not first

I think I would rather nail a sheep than work in Nassau County.

I think they forgot the first digit in the compensation line.

Nice post, Mystal.

-overworked Weil associate expecting a full bonus this year

3: yes

Have you ever heard of a question mark.

Welcome back Elie. Hope you are feeling better, although I hear that mispelliotocis is an incurable disease.

36 to 42k seems really low to me, even for a small firm, and I work in a smaller market (Atl). Couldn't pay my mortgage and student loans with that.

Did ROD PAMPERS go to Hofstra?

Thanks for all the well wishers yesterday. I've got an ear infection and a serious case of vertigo. But I don't need to hear to write, and the laptop actually works just fine at a 45 degree angle.

Yay. And thanks again,
--Elie

Are you sure there isn't just a doughnut stuck in there, big guy?

Hey Mystal - stop going after Hofstra. Hofstra grads place really well at Thacher Profitt, Cadwalader and Proskauer. We don't all just stay out on the Island. In fact, I got a clerkship at a pretty prestigious specialty court in Central Jersey.

Mystal - your name sounds familiar. Are you related to the ex-Suffolk legislator named Elie Mystal who was recently arrested???

MysTTTal ??

13, unfortunately this not surprising (and therefore probably accurate). The NYC metro area is flooded with attorneys, and Long Island/the outer boros (counties of NYC) have TONS of solos and small firms. (Over)supply and demand.

I would totally suck that guy's cock to get that job.

Slurpy slurp slurp, me needs some work.

Hofstra = Sheep pounders

That salary is appalling. I'm pretty sure you get paid more at the Legal Aid Society.

Dear Hofstra Haters,

Eat a dick.

Respectfully,

Hofstra 3L

Hofstra rhymes with sheep milker.

The Harvard of Hempstead!

My watch is worth more than that.

The Harvard of Hempstead!

hey HofsTTTra 3L -- at the end of the day, you still go to hofstra. thats gotta hurt. i suggest ritual suicide as a way to ease your pain. HTH

PRIDE?

*snicker snicker

GULC2L

spitzer paid more to his prostitute!! maybe hofsTTTra grads should look into that line of work. they're probably more qualified for that anyway...

Also part of compensation pkg: Free MusTTTache Rides!

hey elie -- how did the gastric bypass go?

17, which specialty court would that be? municipal?

That's one hell of a bypass!! More like The Chunnel.

28: That was awesome. I mean, really awesome. Fat people really are the funniest people of all.

...this whole thing is the result of too many mustache rides! I have been warning this blog for months!

Can you BLOW me where the PAMPERS is?

I'm curious as to when class action suits by newly admitted but under/un-employed attorneys are going to start against law schools regarding the insane tuition across the board vs. realistic employment prospects and debt loads. I know that such suits probably would have very little chance on the merits(assumption of risk, no guarantee of employment, etc.) but still, I could see such cases brought against schools across the country...

I would sue Hofstra even though I went to NYU.

Which would you rather?

1) Attend Hofstra with a full ride?
2) Nail a sheep?

why isn't anyone commenting about Free Mustache Ride Friday at Hofstra?

40: Why are they exclusive? You can attend any other school and nail a sheep. In fact, based on the physical appearance of most of the ivy grads . . .I'd say it's their best and only option.

40 -- I would rather not choose. That is terrible. Go somewhere else.

36-42k is total bullshit. I work in a secondary market and started out as a first year making 60k with no billable hour minimum. Granted my firm makes a big profit off me, but these Long Island d-bags are taking things to a whole new level.

funny...I know more Hofstra grads with jobs (admittedly under 100k) then grads form other law schools with no jobs at all.....its a matter or perspective especially in this economy

38 - you're a moron. If you're an attorney, your bar card should be yanked. If you're not, you should never become one. What the hell would the basis of that suit be? Personal regret?

Why are Sheep so en vogue right now?

lets examine the difference between NYU/Columbia etc students and Hofstra students. NYU/CLS with no connections are good at (1) standardized tests and (2) professor generated fact patterns. NYU/CLS students with connections are spoiled, awful people who give a bad name to everyone in the legal community, and are often times unqualified to hold the degrees that they do. Hofstra students generally have no connections, and are less good at (1) standarized tests and (2) professor generated fact patterns. lets also note that these professors often times all come from NYU/CLS. so, are NYU/CLS students really better lawyers? we know only that they are better test takers, and that they get much better jobs than we do, but what happens when those jobs go away? what happens when these "lawyers", who are actually much more like employees, start losing their jobs and can no longer proclaim that they have a NYU/CLS degree and expect it to make instant six figures for them? you can hate on Hofstra students here all you would like, and as a Hofstra student myself, there are a lot of students here unqualified to become attorneys. with that said, there are also a lot of us who are just not as good at standarized testing and don't have family connections to help us out. for you cocky and arrogant "lawyers" at the top - watch out. this market isn't getting better, and when push comes to shove people like me will wind up doing much better than you, because we know what it is like to have to work hard for something, and not have it handed to us. for NYU/CLS students who worked hard, and earned it themselves, congratulations, you are probably smarter than me and deserve the money and prestige. but for the rest of you, fuck you. and watch out.

- Hofstra 2L with a $100,000+ job NOT at biglaw

38- I think you need a MusTTTache Ride. C'mon....only costs a nickel.

40: I need more information to answer that question. More information on the sheep, that is.

I Love Elie! Welcome back.

lets examine the difference between NYU/Columbia etc students and Hofstra students. NYU/CLS with no connections are good at (1) standardized tests and (2) professor generated fact patterns. NYU/CLS students with connections are spoiled, awful people who give a bad name to everyone in the legal community, and are often times unqualified to hold the degrees that they do. Hofstra students generally have no connections, and are less good at (1) standarized tests and (2) professor generated fact patterns. lets also note that these professors often times all come from NYU/CLS. so, are NYU/CLS students really better lawyers? we know only that they are better test takers, and that they get much better jobs than we do, but what happens when those jobs go away? what happens when these "lawyers", who are actually much more like employees, start losing their jobs and can no longer proclaim that they have a NYU/CLS degree and expect it to make instant six figures for them? you can hate on Hofstra students here all you would like, and as a Hofstra student myself, there are a lot of students here unqualified to become attorneys. with that said, there are also a lot of us who are just not as good at standarized testing and don't have family connections to help us out. for you cocky and arrogant "lawyers" at the top - watch out. this market isn't getting better, and when push comes to shove people like me will wind up doing much better than you, because we know what it is like to have to work hard for something, and not have it handed to us. for NYU/CLS students who worked hard, and earned it themselves, congratulations, you are probably smarter than me and deserve the money and prestige. but for the rest of you, fuck you. and watch out.

- Hofstra 2L with a $100,000+ job NOT at biglaw

Comment removed by moderator.

Apparently not.

48, I applaud you.

They are asking for a 50 hour work week (approx. what you would need to bill 35-40 hours) and want to pay $36,000? That may be standard in other industries but not in legal. Someone should have shown me an ad like this before I started law school. It would have saved me a lot of trouble.

Hey Elie - don't you think there is a story to be had on the Madoff arrest? Largest security fraud case ever. $50 billion at risk. Could be LTCM imapct here. Get on it.

48/52 - inarticulate mess + too long, didn't read

48 - Well said. Although you lose some credibility for posting twice.

-3L Not At Hofstra or Columbia/NYU

$40k per year?
Bankruptcy is definitely an option.

Comment removed by a fat fuck.

48 -

Admirable. However, the last person in the class at CLS/NYU will get a job before #1 at Hofstra, and he or she deserves to. He or she is smarter than you. You can make yourself feel better by claiming you are a harderworker, but "professor generated fact patterns" is what practicing law is. The smarter lawyers see issues and creative ways to argue REAL cases that you will never see. Personality and likeability go a long way, but every employer and client would prefer a socially awkward a-hole who can figure out the tough legal issues and win the case.

I think someone is angry that their comment was removed and that is why we there are so many sheep posts.

48/52 - hahahahahahahahahahahaha! please see comment #28. follow his advice...

Moderator removed by comment.

Its my sheep. Get your own sheep. This one is mine.

Welcome back, big guy.

Also, can you get rid of these damned sheep comments. I'm all for a good Wyoming joke, but this is a bit much.

45,

You are most certainly a HofsTTTra student, or a student/graduate of some other similar school. Let's examine your claim : "I know more Hofstra grads with jobs (admittedly under 100k) then grads form other law schools with no jobs at all"

That is, in the universe of people you know, those that are both (a) Hofstra grads and (b) employed exceeds the number that are both (x) grads from other law schools and (y) unemployed.

So if those from better schools have an unemployment rate of 10 percent (which of course is too high a number), then at least 11 percent of your Hofstra buddies have jobs. Go Hofstra!!

46, 38 here. As I noted in my original post, I believe there would be very little liklihood of ultimate success of such cases. That said (again), I don't think it's that unlikely/unreasonable to think that desperate/angry/frustrated attorneys file fraudulent inducement or similar claims. Law schools' career services centers often give students (and make available for prospective students) statistics and representations regarding their students' employment, average salary, etc. All I'm saying is that given the incredible rise in tuition across the board, the number of representations made prior to (or shortly after) incurring debt to shoulder such tuition, the liklihood of *some* embellishment/lack of substantiation for such representations, crushing non-dischargable debt, and the colossal clusterf**k of the economy, it wouldn't surprise me *if* such suits were filed, regardless of their actual merit. That's all.

Now go get your fucking shinebox.

I like Hofstra. Great professors. Well regarded journals. Friendly students. Hot dean.

Does Hofstra still have a Law School? I thought they got rid of that for a Mustache Ride Training School?

-NYU 4L

61: Elie Mystal. Enough said.

You lose.

61: Ah, yes. "Real" cases versus "not-real" cases. The last refuge of the BIGLAW nerd who can't hack being anything but behind the scenes.

68 = bottom of class, no job offers.

Ok, ok. I can't resist telling my sheep joke, even though I think the sheep jokes need to go.

What are the top three lies told in Wyoming?

1 - Belt buckles win rodeos.

2 - I'm gonna fix it up.

3 - I WAS JUST HELPING THE SHEEP OVER THE FENCE.

48: I'm sorry but you're delusional. The work effort at CLS/NYU is insane. The people that go there are the people who worked non-stop in highschool to go to a good college. In college they worked non-stop to get good grades. They spent hundreds of hours to study for the LSAT.

There are the few exceptions who are natural born geniuses who do jack shit but trust me these people will have no problem. We'll all be working for them in the end.

48/52:
"NYU/CLS with no connections are good at (1) standardized tests and (2) professor generated fact patterns."
And what have you got to show for yourself? You want me to hire you over the NYU/CLS grads and all you can come up with is "they're good at taking tests" while you're not. What's your skill set that compensates for poor test-taking skills, other than an ability to incoherently rant about the chip on your shoulder?

what are the top three lies told at HofsTTTra?

1 - I could have gone to a well-regarded school, but Hofstra gave me a great scholarship!

2 - I'll make just as good a lawyer as any NYU/CLS student!

3 - I WAS JUST HELPING THE SHEEP OVER THE FENCE.

I work with NYU and CLS grads. It is true that they are much better prepared than I . . . a lowly Hofstra '07 grad. I'm truly jealous when I see the ease and skill that they use to take the lid off of a box of documents. Don't get me started on the thrill and joy I receive in watching them type their logins to e-discovery sites. I truly am in the presence of greatness. I am totally outgunned by these people.

Now, can we put our penises away and get back to what we are all truly equal to . . . slaves for partners?

Dean Demleitner = cougar

http://law.hofstra.edu/Directory/Faculty/FullTimeFaculty/ftfac_demleitner.html

Why does this post give me flashbacks to the film "Boiler Room"?

i'd GULC all over her!

Dean Demleitner = Borg Queen

Dean Demleitner = Borg Queen

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Borg_Queen

78 - yes, you are lowly. you must be a contract attorney

71, affirmative action admits don't count, since in reality those people at CLS/NYU/HLS/etc belong in Hofstra anyway.

I would rather have a nice fluffy sheep than a nappy cougar.

"We will consider newly admitted, but would prefer 1 - 3 years experience"

This ad is for an entry-level attorney, but they want people with experience. No one who just passed the July 2008 NY bar is getting admitted before the end of January. This firm isn't looking for a truly entry-level attorney.

Where are the job opportunities for May 2008 grads?

Elie, way to steal a post that was on jdunderground.com yesterday.

TTT TTT TTT

87 - Sheep GULCing is the only field hiring at the moment.

I have to agree that the salary is pretty low, especially considering how much law school costs and what a typcial graduate's student loan payment is likely to be. Hell, when I got my first job out of lawschool ten years ago, at a 30-attorney firm, I made $55,000. I would have thought salaries would at least have stayed around the same, given the significant increase in law school tuition. How is one supposed to afford good suits, decent reliable car, and pay student loans (1,000 a month at least?) making only $3,000 a month gross? I guess employers still expect attorneys to live rent/food-free with mommy and daddy.

84: No, I'm not. But if you feel better thinking that, go right ahead.

Does it sting knowing that I make the same as you? Actually, since my firm isn't sticking it to us with a shitty bonus, more than you!

48/52, it's too simple to say that NYU/CLS students are good at standardized tests. NYU/CLS students are good at figuring how what they need to do to succeed, work hard towards that goal, and accomplish that goal. Nobody is born a natural test taker.

To get into NYU/CLS all you needed to do was to get good grades in college and score well on the LSAT. You couldn't even reach those well-defined and straightforward targets, and you expect law firms to think you can accomplish more ambiguous and complex goals?

chiming in on 61's comment. "the last person in the class at CLS/NYU will get a job before #1 at Hofstra, and he or she deserves to. He or she is smarter than you."

No, they are not smarter, but bottom of NYU/CLS get a job before a top 5% Hofstra student for 3 good reasons:
1. Clients think they are good lawyers because they went to a good school
2. They might have connections that can lead to work referrals
3. They might be a diamond in the rough, inherently brilliant but just really lazy in school.

It is not fair, and most top people at lower-ranked schools are way smarter than bottom feeders at top schools. But, as described above, there is more to the hiring calculus than merit alone. Once you get it out of your head that law is a strict meritocracy you will start to understand things better.

I second that 91.

Eat a dick.

-Hofstra 3L

How about this douchebag:

Gottesdiener Law Firm, PLLC, a plaintiffs’-side ERISA class action firm, is looking for a full-time law clerk to help manage a busy caseload. The Firm has successfully concluded class actions filed against Enron, New York Life, AT&T and others and is currently prosecuting claims against several large pension benefits plans. More at http://www.gottesdienerlaw.com/. If you are looking for a challenging position in a small firm setting (housed in a charming Brooklyn brownstone) working on complex matters where initiative is key, this could be the job for you. However, we have very high standards and are only interested in receiving applications from candidates who meet our criteria, which include an ability to follow the instructions in this ad for applying.

Minimum Requirements

• You must be a recent law school graduate and be able to work a minimum of M-F from 8:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m. and some weekend and evening hours as needed. • You must be good with numbers, fast and efficient with Excel and all kinds of computer software, and be able to organize and make sense of large volumes of data. • You must have a can-do spirit and understand the value of the opportunity to work on the frontlines of sophisticated federal civil class action litigation.

A Successful Application Will Consist of (and Only of):

1. A three-paragraph “cover letter” that is pasted into your email reply. The first paragraph should state your reason for applying, with specific reference to suitability for our Firm. In this paragraph, we expect to see something different than the cookie-cutter phrases about your “strong interpersonal and communication skills”, “multitasking ability” “commitment to excellence”, etc., – we would like to see what makes you different from the pack. In the second paragraph, please indicate (1) your current position (Confidentiality assured), (2) salary/benefits package and (3) your earliest start date. The third paragraph will explain your transition from one job/educational pursuit to the next, concluding with your current situation. If you are currently without a position, you should explain what you have been doing since your last position.

2. A resume that is succinct, clear and no more than one page that is pasted into your email reply below your “cover letter”.

3. A separate list of references that is pasted into your email reply below your cover letter and your resume. You should not list academic or other references: only work-related references. You should provide a one sentence statement explaining your relationship to the reference and the period of time you worked for the reference. If you cannot provide a reference from your current position, explain why not. (No references will be contacted without your permission, so confidentiality is not a sufficient reason for not providing a current reference).

4. The subject line of reply email must contain only the following: the last name of the judge who agreed with us that PricewaterhouseCooper LLP's definition of normal retirement "age" as the date on which an employee completes 5 years of work for the Firm regardless of age, is invalid.

185k, Widener. Suck iTTT.

Wearing track suits for white collar jobs is apparently de rigeur for many Hofstra Law grads.

That's why many Hofstra Law grads find jobs in the Nassau County sanitation department.

74--That was hysterical!

Thanks for the laugh. Cant believe I never heard that one.

~Cultured Fordham Alum

I'm a career prosecutor that started at $34K 13 years ago, with much longer hours than the position posted in the ad. Granted I think starting salaries here are now $50-55K, a job is a job and presumably if the salary is too low, no one will accept. And here's something for all you snobby biglaw associates, with over 40 felony trials and numerous high profile cases under my belt, I make $108, 500, still far less than your first years (and I would never trade!) Sometimes making less money allows you greater experience.

BOILER ROOM!!!!!
Seriously, someone should interview at this firm and see if Ben Affleck is there showing you his car keys.

74--That was hysterical!

Thanks for the laugh. Cant believe I never heard that one.

~Cultured Fordham Alum

I'm a career prosecutor that started at $34K 13 years ago, with much longer hours than the position posted in the ad. Granted I think starting salaries here are now $50-55K, a job is a job and presumably if the salary is too low, no one will accept. And here's something for all you snobby biglaw associates, with over 40 felony trials and numerous high profile cases under my belt, I make $108, 500, still far less than your first years (and I would never trade!) Sometimes making less money allows you greater experience.

HofsTTTra 3L <3 dicks

100: let's see how you feel when he's making your freaking lexus payments!

I guess there is one area of study that Hofstra Law is missing: "Elitism for Law Students."

You all are doing your law schools proud.

Note that this "missing class" is NOT "Elitism for LAWYERS" -- because many lawyers in big firms work with (or for) Hofstra Law grads, and likely wouldn't spew this elitism like naive law students.

And Ms. Editor (who for some reason has "removed" many of the comments), you are just making yourself look the fool by playing this "Hofstra" card. Get some integrity.

"And here's something for all you snobby biglaw associates, with over 40 felony trials and numerous high profile cases under my belt, I make $108, 500."

And you're bragging about this?

Do Long Islanders put 22" rims on Sheep too?

38 -- you're exactly right. If you were stupid enough to suggest this idea, then there must be others like you. So, you can all get together and find a plaintiffs' attorney who is just as stupid (but somehow managed to pass the bar) and he/she will file this lawsuit. I just hope the law schools hire my firm, because the $50K we make on the MTD will be the easiest money we earn all year. Moron.

93 --

Much of your analysis seems right, but I think it exaggerates quite a bit. First, number 1 at Hofstra or the like will generally get hired before the bottom feeders at NYU/CLS (as they should). Second, clients aren't as dumb as you think.

-Not affiliated w/ Hoftsra

106, No, I'm not bragging. I'm trying to say that money isn't everything. I make a decent salary and have a fantastic job as opposed to a fantastic salary and poor to decent job.

Not all of us like crim, 99. It takes all types.

I am bragging: I've got a great job at BIGLAW, with great experience, a great salary and great benefits.

-Hofstra Law grad.

money isn't everything, but 100k after 13 years in a white collar job is pretty low.

38 -- you're exactly right. If you were stupid enough to suggest this idea, then there must be others like you. So, you can all get together and find a plaintiffs' attorney who is just as stupid (but somehow managed to pass the bar) and he/she will file this lawsuit. I just hope the law schools hire my firm, because the $50K we make on the MTD will be the easiest money we earn all year. Moron.

I remember my first day on campus as a 1L at CLS. The Dean took away my personality and handed me a rich and entitled past filled with family connections. As part of a hazing ritual, he then beat me with an ugly stick and demanded at all times I behave like a douche publicly.

If only I had gone to Hofstra, I could have been beautiful, charming, and down to earth.

that pay's lower than rural vermont was 5 years ago-
but it is a refreshing job posting and they seem like nice people.

113, Absolutely it is low for an attorney with my experience, though it is my choice, I have had opportunities to go to the private sector but have chosen to remain because I love the work . (and I was able to pay my loans off by living frugally my first few years out)

My law is bigger than your law.

Texas2L

that pay's lower than rural vermont was 5 years ago-
but it is a refreshing job posting and they seem like nice people.

Will they take someone with pass/fail credentials?

http://www.bitterlawyer.com/index.php/columns_detail_comment/biglaw_faces_gradeless_jds/?cat_id=6

The top handful of students at every school generally get hired with no problems. Those are the people smart people who could have gone to a better school, but couldn't move or transfer because of family obligations, lack of money, and the like.
Firms aren't stupid and are aware of this.

Will they take someone with pass/fail credentials?

http://www.bitterlawyer.com/index.php/columns_detail_comment/biglaw_faces_gradeless_jds/?cat_id=6

17 - You are TTT.

There is a reason you have to specify Hofstra MAGNA.

- Grew up in Nassau County.

85 you are an idiot and probably a Hofstra student yourself.. Affirmative action admits to T6 schools would be at the worst T30 schools without the boost. They tend to score in the mid-to-low 160s. Hofstra has a median of 156.

Class Action!

The chart is from 10 years ago, but it is very telling. Joan King has been spinning numbers her whole career. See that 80K number?

A. Why does Joan King calculate average starting salaries based upon median rather than mean? How many other reputable businesses are allowed to advertise prices based upon a "median" in your local Sunday circular.

B. Did you know that the 80K figure includes hordes of people who are working as dead-end office temps with no benefits? By not disclaiming this out, doesn't this intentionally provide for a false impression?

http://web.archive.org/web/20000608173338/www.brooklaw.edu/student/career/stats.shtml

124, I bet you're real fun at parties, quibbling over 4 point differences in median LSAT.

99,

state or federal?
If state, are you in the NYC area?

126, isn't that the different between going to Yale or Penn (or UPenn State as people here love to call it)?

95: That is beyond the pale. What an asshole. I love the vetting for references before even being interviewed. Why, pray tell, would I ever trust some dude I've never even met to keep my inquiry confidential? Ugh. And the 8:30 arrival time! Give me a break.

Want to bet the "charming Brooklyn brownstone" is the dude's house?

95: That is beyond the pale. What an asshole. I love the vetting for references before even being interviewed. Why, pray tell, would I ever trust some dude I've never even met to keep my inquiry confidential? Ugh. And the 8:30 arrival time! Give me a break.

Want to bet the "charming Brooklyn brownstone" is the dude's house?

128, false analogy, because the differences are less pronounced once you get away from the extremities.
It's like the difference between University of Buffalo and University of Wyoming.

Can you really put a price on a mustache ride, though? Seriously!?

127, State (Manhattan DA).

Elie probably graduated from Hofstra, but due to his typos, misspelled it as "Harvard"

#45 is right on. I'm one of them.

Classy to call out a specific school unnecessarily, Elie. Before you start insulting people - don't forget we all saw your pics in that post last week . (and no, not a Hofstra student/grad)

136: Elie has every right. He went to a very prestigious school. Just ignore the fact that he couldn't cut it in the legal market and now poorly edits a blog that will soon be forgotten after he's run it into the ground.

133,

Does the Manhattan DA take laterals out of the Bronx or Queens after their 3 yr contracts are up?

I work with several Hofstra grads and they are smart and diligent. I'm a California native and I never even heard of Hofstra before starting at my BigLaw firm. Not sure what all the fuss is - they are just as good as the Fordham guys I work with (in some cases better).

I work with several Hofstra grads and they are smart and diligent. I'm a California native and I never even heard of Hofstra before starting at my BigLaw firm. Not sure what all the fuss is - they are just as good as the Fordham guys I work with (in some cases better).

138,
It has happened on occasion, though not often. Best bet might be to transfer to Special Narcotics and apply from there (if you're asking for yourself, GL!).

Hey 108/114 (nice double post by the way), looks like the chart at 125, annexed to a complaint as an exhibit, supported by the right allegations, easily survives a MTD. Hello, discovery.

Employment option 1 or 2, in Baltimore, unemployed newly barred atty?

1 - staff attorney at BigLaw. will be doc review monkey. ~$85k

2 - associate with small personal injury firm. will try smaller P.I. and workers comp cases in circuit court, will sit second chair on bigger P.I. cases. $55k plus 1/3 of business generated.

What Would You Do?

Employment option 1 or 2, in Baltimore, unemployed newly barred atty?

1 - staff attorney at BigLaw. will be doc review monkey. ~$85k

2 - associate with small personal injury firm. will try smaller P.I. and workers comp cases in circuit court, will sit second chair on bigger P.I. cases. $55k plus 1/3 of business generated.

What Would You Do?

workers comp sucks! i would take 1 unless you want to do PI for the rest of your life. at least option 1 gives you biglaw on your resume and you can apply to other "better" positions or transition to government.

I would choose number 2. You are not going to make 85K in option 2 unless you have some kind of huge in, like a father who is a union steward, police officer, chiropractor, or you have an outsize personality. But going to court will get you out there and give you experience, and won't the contract attorney thing always be there?

143/144, what is your debt load looking like? Any other fixed costs (mortgage, child support, etc.)? While #1 may seem more attractive, it will be a dead-end job that will slowly drive you crazy and/or to the bottle. #2 may not sound great, and it may not be, but #1 will end up eating your soul for pennies on the dollar. If you can afford to try #2, and these are your only two options, I would probably consider the latter, as you can later slide into the former if necessary but probably not as easily do it the other way around.

143 - I would personally do #1 and keep looking for a job at the same time. I just couldn't do PI work. It depends what you want to do. I'm from Bmore (work at Biglaw in NYC now) so I can tell you that Bmore is the kind of town where no one will judge you either way. You won't have to deal with the elitist pricks that live up here (and, to a lesser extent, in DC). That said, just figure out what you want to do and go with it.

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice 145-8. I have law school debt, but no mortgage/car/alimony etc. Leaning toward the personal injury firm because of the experience - the skills I would learn trying PI cases for a year or two would translate into any other civil lit jobs down the line.

-143

you might be tainted by PI litigation for other civil litigation jobs...

What do biglaw associates do when they are let go after 4 yrs. as associates at biglaw? It is nice to have biglaw on the resume, but it doesnt soundlike to many people can take the 40-60% paycuts that losing an associateship would entail. Is there anyway you can get another job while taking only a small haircut/ Say 20%/ Going from 190k to 150k is doable but to go from 220k to 90k is not.
Rarely is losing a job in small law that devasting personal finance.

151 - it all comes down to debt

Madoff went to hofstra.

151: I went from 160 to 110. It definitely involved sacrifices, but the quality of life and interesting work made up for it. There's also something to be said for specializing, which is what making that move achieved for me. I knew that in BIGLAW it would be several years before I'd be able to even defend a deposition.

143: That is a tough decision. It sounds like #2 will afford you more opportunities to build your skills and get into a courtroom, if that's your thing. That salary is tough, though, unless you have a lot of confidence that you can bring in business. You could always take #1 in the short term to have a larger salary while you look for a job that gives you the opportunity to actually practice law so that when you interview you can say you're presently making $85K. I don't think being a staff attorney is a professional death sentence, but you will only master a very discrete set of skills and you will be lower on the hierarchy than an associate, which would get in my nerves.

61 = overweight, ugly, friendless 2nd year associate at Paul Weiss who narrowmindedly relates law school rank with the quality of a lawyer. He does this only to make himself feel better for his pathetic life that might look good on paper but looks like shit in the mirror every morning.

#155 - I agree with you. #61 has lost all sense of reality. Trust me firms like Kirkland and Skadden would never hire some awkward A-Hole that they could never put in front of a client - who cares if you are book smart or not!

And $36-42K Are you kidding me? Most Paralegals I know make more than double that!

I read ATL once in a while for entertainment. Many of the comments make me feel embarrassed for the profession. I have known just as many brilliant attorneys from Hofstra as I have from NYU and the like. As a successful attorney from Ivy law, I have to say that you are all pathetic human beings. However, I thank you for the laughs.

I read ATL once in a while for entertainment. Many of the comments make me feel embarrassed for the profession. I have known just as many brilliant attorneys from Hofstra as I have from NYU and the like. As a successful attorney from Ivy law, I have to say that you are all pathetic human beings. However, I thank you for the laughs.