What is a Kasowitz? (not trying to be a douche, just haven't heard of them since I don't practice in NYC. How prominent/large are they as a litigation boutique?)

They are a mid-size lit shop in NYC. Aggressive guys and a little bit of a pain to work with, but usually smart enough to know when to quit.

The mere opportunity to receive an above marker bonus...

There goes Elie's resolution to proofread his posts.

Happy New Year big guy.

KBT > QE

BITCH SPREAD THE BUTT CHEEKS SO I CAN SMELLS THE JUICY INSIDES!

there goes the BUTT CHEEKS person again......

robble

They bascially did a Kirkland. Clever. At Kirkland some people got better than Cravath and some even better than Skadden. Some got market (Cravath) and some below. Whatever the tipster thinks, the 'individual performance and hours worked' language gives the firm total discretion to give lower bonuses to those who deserve them (or those who don't and unavoidably have low hours. Probably not much of a group with no real corporate department)

This is NOT a bonus announcement. This is an announcement that a bonus announcement will be made sometime in January on a case by case basis.

This firm is garbage and will not be paying Skadden level bonus. Moreover anyone who claims this memo is good news is a total idiot.

This memo could says "bonus up to $200,000,000" and people would still get paid below Skadden.

WTF is the point of this memo?

Yay. Latham, Cadwalader and a few others are a hair's breath from dissolution and mid-tier boutiques are paying the huge bonuses. Even as a biglaw associate, I somehow manage to keep a sense of humor on this stuff. Go Kawotitz(?)!

Skadden associates - any concern yet about the impending layoffs in early 2009? Firms like Simpson and Proskauer have already cleaned house and didn't pay big bonuses, I think basic economics indicate that you're next....any firm with a miniscule drop in PPP at this point will cause a mass rush to the door by rainmakers in the current market.

@10 -- got a crap bonus? lost your job? bitter? either way, you know jack. Bottom line is KBTF had a banner year with a heavy emphasis on securities litigation adverse to banks. Not everbody will get the full bonus but those who deserve it (big biller and well-regarded associates) will get much more than they would at shops on the Cravath scale.

11 is an idiot. A partner whose profits drop from $3.5 mil to $3 mil isn't going to go running for the door. In a good place and going to ride it out, while continuing to rake it in even in these bad times. Exactly where do you think the 'rainmakers' would go in the current market?

LOL at 10 being bitter because he/she exercised some basic reading comprehension skills.

Emotions aside, this memo is not an announcement of any kind. It only states that the firm (which I have never heard of) will be giving different bonuses out on a case by case basis.

Who knows what the actual bonuses will end up looking like.

13 doesn't understand law firms or basic capitalism. Where will they go? Any firm that will pay them more. If they have a decent book of business (to dumb it down for you, they can create revenue for a firm), any firm will take them. Law Firm 101 - it is a business. Although I do like your warm and fuzzy sentiment about them being in a "good place." A good place for partners is the seventh circle of hell if it means they're making an additional $500k per year.

Although I disagree with 11. Skadden is in a good place. And they will be one the homes for rainmaking partners looking to flee due to PPP dips.

Anyone hear any cahill gordon bonus news?

Kasowitz is in the same ballpark as Quinn Emmanuel and Boise Schiller, a high-end, mid-size litigation shop that has done extremely well in the past couple years and anticipates doing well in the immediate future. Thus, the bonus is not all that surprising given QE and BS matched last year's bonuses.

As for 10 - probably a bitter Cravath associate. Don't hate, guy.

10- this is an announcement - you have to be familiar with the Kasowitz firm culture. Unlike at most law firms, at Kasowitz, the firm hierarchy is generally well liked by the associates. Kasowitz is not the type of firm to get associates excited about a $$$ amount and then stiff them on their actual bonus.

We will see when bonuses are actually paid, but Kasowitz is not the type of firm to fail to put its money where its mouth is.

Buddy of mine at Kasowitz billed 2300-plus last year and got the full amount for his year (plus last-year's special bonus). He said others with less than 2100 had bonuses lowered some but only by 5K or so. From what he says, they are absolutely booming now that everyone -- from hedge funds to rich guys -- wants to sue an investment bank and most other big firms (like mine) are conflicted since their corp. depts. were responsible for the same shoddy deals that are now being litigated. Major boom-times for securities-lit firms like Kasowitz, QE, Boies, etc.

17 and 19: Except, at QE, you need to bill 2400+ to get anything above the Cravath bonus.

QE New York associates' resumes to Kasowitz and Boies in 3...2...1...

So what ever happened to the lawsuits between Kasowitz and Jeremy Pitcock? Judging from the complaints, women are not especially valued at Kasowitz. If they were, there would not be 13 associates complaining about Pitcock's inability to keep his cock in his pants. I'd rather get a half-Skadden bonus than deal with crap like that.

21- you make it rain, they make it settle

21: I work at Kasowitz and the women are treated with total respect.

It is a fantastic place to work. Attorneys work hard and are rewarded accordingly. Kasowitz is the type of place not to follow the market when its attorneys deserve more and the firm is doing so well.

Wow, it looks like every partner at this firm has posted a comment. I've never heard of this place. Do they even pay market salaries? How many firms did the associates get rejected from before submitting a resume to this place?

Hooray, Kissametitz(?)!!!

24: Kasowitz pays market salaries- I got accepted at firms including cravath, fried frank and dewey and turned them all down to work at Kasowitz!

Kasowitz > S&C

"It really is a fantastic place full of extremely smart trial lawyers that sometimes litigate, as opposed to all of the other firms where litigators sometimes do trial work."

I have read this quote about 7 times, but still cannot make sense of it. Can someone please explain it to me? What are the trial lawyers at Kasowitz doing when they aren't litigating?

So Kasowitz and Jeremy Pitcock settled? Can anyone confirm this? Thx.

for the haters and uninitiated (24), you might as well educate yourself:

http://www.kasowitz.com/files/VaultGuidetotheTopNYLawFirms2008.pdf

http://www.kasowitz.com/files/FastRise-NoWhitePage.pdf

So Kasowitz and Jeremy Pitcock settled? Can anyone confirm this? Thx.

28 - I think it's supposed to mean that their lawyers go to court a lot.... At least that's what came up when I put this quote through Trig Palin-to-English conversion software.

Hold on, so you're telling me that what I learned in law school can be used to do something called "litigation" and I could actually make a living?

32, I think the quote is just non-nonsensical. I guess that's why that person is at Kasowitz and not a V5 law firm.

30, I went to the link because I have not heard of this firm either (I am not in NY) and was curious. The first line says:

"Founded in 1993, Kasowitz, Benson, Torres &
Friedman LLP is a baby on the legal scene."

I'm really not trying to be a jerk, but that's not the best advertisement (assuming you are an attorney at the firm and trying to spread the word).

26=fail

36

I think the last laugh is on you, friend.

There'll always be a job in Kasowitz. Can't say the same for cravath, frank, or dewey.

Enjoy the diminishing bonuses, significant increase in job insecurity, and decrease in prestige as 2009 marches apace.

~A Kasowitz alum

23: If that were the case, Jeremy Pitcock would not have gotten away with harassing so many women. Plus, no law firm treats women with total respect. If you think otherwise you have your head in the sand.

Nothing like people trolling for their lit boutique on ATL....

Kasowitz might be a bunch of sheister clowns for all I care, but hey, you pay the bonuses, you get the laterals. Let's be honest, who here isn't in this for the money? (prepares resume for firm he's never heard of).

38 & others- I think Pitcock had a heavy fine from the partnership

38

Pitcock got pitcocked by the Kasowitz partnership.

End of story.

BITCH SPREAD THE BUTT CHEEKS SO I CAN SMELLS THE JUICY INSIDES!

42: is that really necessary? It's not even funny.

39 is right, money talks.

Elie ate all the SkaddenDC cookies.

mmm cookies....

37 - I'm not your friend, pal.

There is always a job working the pole at the local Nudie Cuties also, but it doesn't necessarily mean that I want it.

I hope you moved up the Vault ladder wherever you are (or at least ONTO the Vault ladder).

36

All the haters are just fools who chose Cravath over Kasowitz.

Is it so clear to everyone else that 26 is lying that no one here bothers pointing it out? Give me an f'ing break on two levels: (1) thinking we would believe that you turned down Cravath to work for a firm not even in the v100, and (2) mentioning Fried Frank and Dewey as if they were Cravath peers. You should have just left off Cravath--then your comment is believable. Quaint, but believable.

48's comment applies to 47, too. Let's be real. Cravath is paying less than this firm, but half of a Skadden bonus a prestigious law firm does not make. While a bit upside-down that a boutique pays more than a top dog firm, a firm founded in 1993 has a ways to go before being compared to one that is 200 years old.

Oh come on, 47.

You think someone actually sat down with their Cravath offer letter and their Kasopiss(?) offer letter and made the tough decision to pass on Cravath and join some chop shop lit boutique that nobody has ever heard of? Dude, that's silly.

These contingency boutiques only make money when they win a big case. If this firm had some victories this year, then that's great for them. The associates should enjoy it. However, that type of work is unsteady and unpredictable. There will be many more years of getting stiffed when a few juries don't vote favorably. It looks like the firm tries to hedge a little by not raising salaries until the summer (seriously), at which time I assume associates get the back pay. On the upside, it is possible to hit a home run at a place like this. But the odds indicate that Mr. Kasowitz should not start planning that 20 yr anniversary party just yet.

Oh come on, 47.

You think someone actually sat down with their Cravath offer letter and their Kasopiss(?) offer letter and made the tough decision to pass on Cravath and join some chop shop lit boutique that nobody has ever heard of? Dude, that's silly.

These contingency boutiques only make money when they win a big case. If this firm had some victories this year, then that's great for them. The associates should enjoy it. However, that type of work is unsteady and unpredictable. There will be many more years of getting stiffed when a few juries don't vote favorably. It looks like the firm tries to hedge a little by not raising salaries until the summer (seriously), at which time I assume associates get the back pay. On the upside, it is possible to hit a home run at a place like this. But the odds indicate that Mr. Kasowitz should not start planning that 20 yr anniversary party just yet.

49- I am not saying that Kasowitz is in the same league as Cravath but to judge a firm based on how old it is makes no sense.
How old was Heller?
How old is WLRK?

50 - your analytical skills seem sharp, but your grasp of the relevant information is lacking - Kasowitz made a ton of money one year on a hefty contingency fee that supplemented its otherwise impressive book of business, since then it has consistently ranked in the top 30 firms in terms of profits per partner on the basis of its clients paying hourly fees. Ie if you think that Kasowitz can pay what it does because it is one of those plaintiff's firms that hits the jackpot a few times, you are wrong. The firm is a really sharp litigation shop, that does mostly high end work on an hourly fee basis, and has a ton of regular clients, - so if you want to bet as to whether the firm will be around in 5 years, I'll take you up on that.

This whole notion of Kasowitz is better than Cravath, or vice versa is a little simplistic - Kasowitz is Kasowitz, Cravath is Cravath - Specifically, on this day Kasowitz beat Cravath with associate compensation and probably requires its associates to work many fewer hours than does Cravath. So all in all, in 2008, I'd rather be a Kasowitz associate than a Cravath associate.

51 - Biglaw is biglaw. You get paid the same regardless. Honestly, people talk about how their "exit strategy" is better at a top firm, but do you think the Long Island midlaw shops every biglaw litigation refugee runs to really care about where your firm ranked on the Vault 10? Or do they care about your record and experience? Nothing like egotism for being higher up the ladder -- you don't get paid any more for it, and pay is really all you're in it for, so what difference does it make?

haha, I think it's awesome that Kasowitz's bonus package is way better than the top ten firms and the d.bags who are still trying to cling on to their firms' prestige value or ranking.

Face it. Kasowitz bitchslapped all these so called top ten big law firms by looking out for it associates and paying its associates a share of the profit they made for the firm.

53 - Actually, at this point no associates at Kasowitz "beat" cravath associates in compensation. This memo was not a real bonus announcement. It is sort of the "promise ring" of bonus announcements. That is, you have to give them something so they keep bending over for you, but you don't want to make any irreversible decisions.

The "up to" language in the memo sounds to me like some kasowitz associates perhaps will take home higher bonuses, but it won't be the ones that worked "many fewer hours" than cravath associates. It's a little premature and short-sighted to say you'd rather be a kasowitz associated than a cravath associate.

I don't believe that these are peer firms at all, and so they should not be compared.

50

56:

"I don't believe that these are peer firms at all, and so they should not be compared." - Then why are you spending so much time comparing them then?

In any event, your initial point was that Kasowitz revenue was based on contingency fees. I pointed out that you were wrong, and you've tried to find another erroneous reason to criticize kasowitz. I'm guessing that you're not assessing the situation and concluding that Kasowitz is in some way lacking, I'm guessing that your for some reason (bitter Cravath person) trying to show that Kasowitz is no good, and looking for facts to fit your conclusion.

- we won't know what the "up to" language means until bonuses are paid - when we do, we'll see if I'm right about the "rather be a Kasowitz associate than a Cravath associate" point.

The "up to ____" language means if you didn't hit your billables, you will likely receive 5-10k less than the benchmark. Same thing last year. Some of you are bitter losebags.

50/56 and others - you dumbass. as has been established repeatedly, kasowitz doesn't hold itself out to be a peer of cravath. cravath is built on it institutional presence and corporate practice. kasowitz is young, litigation only firm that is already a very strong presence on the ny legal scene and positioned well to take on cases that most white shoe firms can't take. as has been mentioned, it is peers with Quinn and Boies in the nature and quality of work and quality of the firm culture (not very BigLaw).

the notion of Kasowitz as a peer with Cravath was created by dipshits like you who have your panties in a bunch - those completely obsessed with "prestige" and vault rankings can hardly keep from barfing in their mouths a little at the notion any level of inferiority - because a firm is currently attaining a higher level of success than Cravath and is compensating its associates accordingly. so, you preemptively criticize and make this argument about "non-peers" to rationalize it to yourself, engage in this dick measuring contest based not on a quantitative measure of length or girth, but on your own perception of how well you fuck. i guarantee you no one at Kasowitz is claiming that they're peers with Cravath, because no one there really gives a shit to compare themselves to others - it's not the mindset. but, i'll tell you what, it's pretty fuckin' cool to be making more than those at Cravath, S&C, DPW and the rest, and subsequently watch dipshits like you suffer a conniption.

sorry brah.

59: Nice language. Actually, 26 DID introduce the comparison discussion. He indicated that he chose Kasowitz over his Cravath offer. Someone then called bullshit, and the comparison began. Whether or not the comparison is justified, it is completely germane, based on all the horn-totting from Kasowitz trolls here, including your "it's pretty fuckin' cool to be making more than those at Cravath, S&C, DPW and the rest..." ("more" = comparison)

I do agree with you that the discussion is worthless, though. Is there really any merit to a discussion comparing Kasowitz to Cravath? As much as I am pissed that it lowered the bonus market single-handedly, let's not be ridiculous here.

52,

My point is not that a firm should be judged by its age, but rather to point out how ludicrous it is to compare the two firms in the same sentence. A 15-year-old firm needs to do more than double the bonus of a 200-year-old legal icon ONE YEAR before people are taken seriously who comment that Cravath associates are pissed they didn't go work at Kasowitz.

60 - you are correct. 26 did introduce some level of comparison by stating s/he chose to go to Kasowitz over other firms, but without any comparison/rationalization, including the "peer" or "better" arguments that have now taken over the discussion

and yea, i did kind of compare in my last sentence. but i can honestly say that any thoughts of superiority to other firms hadn't even occurred to me until i started reading all the ridiculous "hating" that's going on in this thread. it is simply a matter of how the firms are positioned at a given time, and currently, Kasowitz (and others) are positioned very well.

59

61 - You're a complete moron - "Hi my point isn't to say that women should be judged by their looks, but wow that girl sure is gorgeous."

god, this board annoys the shit out of me. if you've never heard of kasowitz then it just highlights that you're either a fucktard student or a whore who will make it to their fourth year at their supposedly prestigious shop and then get asked to leave or instead, burn out. the short of it, these guys have a strong shop and make some serious money. they have a few niche practices that are extremely profitable and a serious stable of high net worth clients. is it the friendliest place to work? who knows...but who cares? it's all about making the g today.

-i don't work at kasowitz

Kas himself came from Mayer Brown (I think?) doing a lot of chemical company litigation. They are handling the tobacco work for Liggett. Recently they've grown mostly with tons of laterals.

They seem sharp and really aggressive. They could care less about prestige points. I would not want to be a co-defendant with them. Associates I met there said they work less than sweat-shop hours and make "about market." Judging from posts above, I guess some associates work longer hours and make above market.

59, if you work at Kasowitz, then you've proven the point that it is a low-level hole that shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Cravath. The talent went to Vault rated firms. It's just a fact. I'm not saying that the firm can't make something of itself in time, but right now you are there because you didn't get the job you wanted.

If you read the board, it seems that the only way anyone has heard of your firm is because of what sounds like a sexual harassment suit, or they work there (probably after getting passed over many, many times).

Those who fear comparison do so because they know that they can't measure up. If you want to play with the big boys, then work hard, try to make a name for yourself and then apply for other jobs as a lateral. Until then, don't kid yourself by listing your firm with others that have earned their reputations over time, like Cravath. Actually, don't mention S&C either.

57,

If you read more carefully, you'll see that I am not camparing the two firms. Like I said, there is no comparison. Instead, I am refuting your comparisons because they are no more than the wishful ramblings of someone seemingly stuck at kasowitz.

I don't know anyone at your firm - in fact I just heard of it a few hours ago. I'm sure there are some smart lawyers there. But, it is a contingency lit firm. I understand that they bill some hours too, but firms like this take on contingency work because clients are less willing to pay hourly rates for questionable talent. I use the term "questionable" because of lack of reputation, and not to suggest that the talent isn't there. At a firm that's earned its reputation, billable rates are generally accepted by its clients. These firms don't need to take the risks involved with contingencies, like kasowitz does. Do you think your firm just takes on contingency work (or supplements its income, as you suggest) for the fun of it? think it over.

I'm not looking for reasons to criticize your firm. My point is simply that it's not a peer of Cravath. I hope you get a huge bonus, since you might need it to average out future dings. You mentioned something about your firm "consistently" being in the top 30 for profits or something. But what do you mean by "consistently"? the firm hasn't even existed for very long. I wouldn't bank too much on consistency if I were you.

You seem like a pretty smart guy/girl, I like you. But I you'll have to forgive me if I think you are lying when you say you'd rather be a kasowitz associate than a cravath associate.

56.

give it 365 days, boys and girls. if next year Cravath pays half-Skadden and Kasowitz pays twice-Cravath, we should resume this conversation.

We can all talk about prestige, vault and the many other things we cling to.

Kasowitz does NOT pay market. They claim they do on NALP. This is simply not true. I was offered 145K, (2007 grad), when market in NYC was 160K. I know other 2007 grads (who happen to be male, and from even lower tiered schools) were being offered the full market rate. I'm female & asian. Maybe race and/or gender had nothing to do with it, but offering me 145K certainly doesn't help w/ Kasowitz's image. Btw, it was Pitcock who personally called me to tell me the "great news" that they were making me an offer of $145K.

26 = idiot. I do believe you work at Kasowitz. Lawyers don't say "I got accepted at firms".... it ain't like applying to college.

69 - is that 15K really the end of the world for you? Less than 10% of your offered base salary? That's "make or break"?

um - I work at Kasowitz and they pay market.

66...you truly are an idiot. the talent went to the vault firms? seriously, this is the problem here - there needs to be a separate forum for law students to push their drivel. in any event, when that so-called "talent" hits their fifth year, hasn't taken a depo, argued a contested matter let alone even prepped exhibits for trial...what are you left with? some putz that goes in-house and takes their putz 250k salary and lives out a nice putz life.

you can have all the prestige you want rookie (soon to be putz). me, i'll take the cash. kasowitz is a good shop...gets great, lucrative committee gigs (you probably don't even know what i'm talking about and if you do, then your earlier comment is then dumber) and clashes with the best firms...and wins. the proof is in the numbers. the revenue per lawyer for the firm is huge for a firm of its size while the ppp is top 20 and is only going up in this market.

67 - for your sake, i hope you're a law student.

71- duh. no it's not make or break, but think about the ramifications of that for a while. we're expected to bill the same hours. we do the same work. etc...

good for you 72. clap. clap.

71- duh. no it's not make or break, but think about the ramifications of that for a while. we're expected to bill the same hours. we do the same work. etc...

I don't work in NY and don't know whether it's true that all "the talent" goes to Vault-rated firms in that city. But in DC, where I do work, it's demonstrably untrue. Check out the Supreme Court clerks who chose to go to Robbins Russell or -- especially -- Kellogg Huber. Both those firms, incidentally, spun off from Mayer Brown, just as Kasowitz Benson did.

73 -- how does kasowitz compare to williams connolly? i've never heard of kasowitz but have heard of w&c, which is vault ranked 14 and seems to be pretty prestigious and seem to take a good share of top talent.

agree w/ your point about cravath vs. kasowitz. people who go to cravath THINK they're prestigious -- any firm that hires 160 summers when they have 400 attorneys is hardly prestigious.

all the "prestige" talk is ridiculous. i haven't heard much about Kasowitz other than that they are agressive and generally pretty good. but the bottom line is that we're all associates at BigLaw firms and we're all here (for now at least) because we want to make money and work on interesting matters (and did i mention make money?). you should not be at one BigLaw firm over another because you want "prestige." If you are, you're a sucker because you'll let them abuse you for less than you could make elsewhere. For prestige, go work in academia. I, for one, wish I were getting a Kasowitz bonus this year.

Kaso-what........enough said. End this absurd conversation right away, this is a TTT firm that had a good year.

SKADDEN TO 190!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As an S&C litigator, I can say 100% that 27 is entirely credited. Nobody believes the Spring 2009 supplemental bonuses will be anything more than bullshit chickenfeed.

The thought of working against Skadden on my cases makes me fucking sick.

37 kasowitz alum, if it's so great why leave? if kasowitz is so great, please tell us why there will always be a kasowitz, instead of stupidly saying "Enjoy the diminishing bonuses, significant increase in job insecurity, and decrease in prestige as 2009 marches apace." they must have let u go w/ a nice severance. hopefully it was "market rate"

I also didn't get market rate offer at kasowitz (though higher than $145, but i was 2008 grad).
71 not only misses the point, but also can't do math. ... lets do it slowly...

10% ..of... $145K base salary equals....

judging by how ppl bitch about half skadden pays, um.. yeah. 15K diff is significant.

26- kasowitz would probably question your judgment too if they found out you turned down cravath for them.

the kasowitz associates here sound like d.bags.

87 sounds like someone I need to prison rape. Dry. Two times. And his mom.

This board gives me a headache.

I work at Kasowitz (never heard of it until I started interviewing either). I was a lateral - came from a Vault Top FIVE firm. It sucked there. While Kas isn't the "best" firm ever to work for, it sure beats doing document review as a senior associate at Cravath or Skadden.

Lets please stop talking about how a top Vault Firm is better than Kasowitz, since most of us lateralled from a top Vault Firm. We are just as smart as you, graduated from the SAME law schools (if you're not top 12 law school, don't bother submitting your resume), etc etc.

Furthermore, just because we don't have a corporate practice doesn't make us less than you. And for the record, I've never been on a case that was on contingent fee... everything is billable hours! We aren't Jacoby & Meyers shit.

We get respect, and as a junior associate, I've already been on trial. I wouldn't have gotten that if I had stayed at my old firm.

And for the record, I billed --- not so many hours --- last year, and got 5K less than the full bonus announced. Hoping its the same this year.

Let's face it. If any of you kasowitz associates were truly content with your job/life, then you wouldn't have to defend it like a bunch of assholes to people you've never met.

All you care about is trying to give your relatively obscure firm some recognition, thereby boosting your resume in the future. That makes you just as obsessed with "prestige" as anyone else. The only difference is "vault-rated" firms have it and you don't.

87 is correct. You all sound like short fat kids that have become accustomed to defending your lame-ass decisions and miserable failures.

90: Your post demonstrates that you are as intelligent as you are likeable.

"Dear Kasowitz associates:if you were truly content with your firm you sure wouldn't be.........................singing its praises. You're obviously failures. so there! "

man - even if the Kasowitz associates did come across as you say, I'd sure as hell rather be them than you.

Any word on whether or not they truly matched Skadden? Or did they just match market.

Kasowitz day will come when the cards come crumbling down

hey does anyone remember that cute comment that Marc Kasowitz made of its then client Fairfiled (major Madoff feeder fund) that Fairfield acting responsibly and did due diligence? then a week later kasowitz is no longer representing Fairfield

Bonus notices came out - they truly matched skadden