Biglaw to Associates: ‘Surprise! Your salary is frozen’?
We’ve been reporting on the Biglaw salary freeze heavily over the past month. Earlier this week, we did a round-up of firms that had announced their intention to keep 2009 salaries at 2008 levels.
At that point, we knew of sixteen firms that had sent memos to their associates notifying them that raises were not forthcoming. While certainly unpleasant, everyone acknowledges that it’s more welcome than layoff news.
Today, we’re getting e-mails from several associates who are freaking out that the freeze is on at their firms, based on their first paychecks of 2009. Their paychecks came in last night at 12:01 a.m. and they are the same amount as paychecks last month. Here are the unconfirmed freeze reports we’ve received so far…
Mayer brown checks just popped at last years levels. So apparently there is a freeze, maybe, but no memos on it yet. Please investigate.
Today was the first pay day in 2009 for Mayer Brown NY. In the past, our first pay check of the year automatically reflected salary increases. No such increase today. Smells like a pay freeze?!? With the added courtesy of letting ADP announce it instead of management.
(UPDATE (6:05 p.m.): Mayer Brown spokesman Bob Harris says the firm “has not yet announced its plans for lawyer compensation in 2009” and that it usually makes the decision in February.)
Steptoe & Johnson froze salaries. What stands out about this is that they did not send a memo or anything telling associates salaries would be frozen, or saying when/if the position would be reconsidered. Today was our first payday, and they just issued everyone the same checks they were getting last year. No comment. No memo. No explanation. Typical douche-baggery.
… Stroock:
They haven’t made any announcements of a salary freeze. They just haven’t announced any salary increases and continue paying the old salary. When I looked at the employee system to check the amount of tomorrow’s paycheck, it shows that I will be paid the same salary as last year.
Not everyone is freaking out. A reassuring voice, after the jump. Also, Ballard Spahr and RatnerPrestia have officially put the freeze on, with a memo and a press release, after the jump.
One Mayer Brown associate advises colleagues to chill out about their first paychecks of the year:
I work at Mayer Brown. Every year they raise salaries in March and retroactively pay associates what they would have gotten since March. Definitely getting sick of panickers here. These people need to get a life.
Ballard Spahr has frozen salaries, memo below.
Boutique IP firm RatnerPrestia is freezing its billing rates, proudly trumpeting the savings to its clients on its website.
BALLARD SPAHR SALARY FREEZE FIRM-WIDE E-MAIL
From: Kahn, Geoffrey A. (Phila)
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:07 PM
To: Non-Partner Lawyers (All Offices)
Cc: Partners (All Offices)
Subject: Non-Partner Lawyer Compensation
As in the recent past, the evaluation conferences for non-partner lawyers will take place in January. The purpose of this e-mail is to address two issues—salaries and profit-sharing bonuses—that typically are discussed at those conferences.
As I am sure you all appreciate, the Firm is not immune to the world-wide economic downturn. In light of these circumstances, the Firm has decided to keep the salaries of all non-partner lawyers at their 2008 level in the coming year. The Firm will pay profit-sharing bonuses in early 2009 based on 2008 performance, business generation and billable hours. The bonus amounts will be reduced and the eligibility criteria will be modified in certain respects that will be discussed during the January conferences; however, the total number of participants in this year’s profit-sharing program is virtually identical to the number of participants a year ago.
We very much appreciate the efforts of our non-partner lawyers and are confident that, with your help, we will be successful during this challenging period. In the meantime, we hope that you understand the reasons for the actions described above.
Geoff
RATNERPRESTIA PRESS RELEASE
RatnerPrestia Announces Rate Freeze and Fixed Fee Initiative
2008-12-18
Valley Forge, Pa., December 2008 - RatnerPrestia announced that it will freeze essentially all attorney billing rates for at least the next six months. In a letter to its clients, the firm states its desire to assist clients in weathering the current economic storm and announces its rate freeze as part of that effort. RatnerPrestia’s move represents a departure from the general trend among law firms. One published report indicates that other firms plan a 5% rate raise in 2009.
In addition to the billing rate freeze, the firm will also encourage clients to consider alternatives to billing arrangements based on billable hours. The firm already serves, or has proposed to serve, a number of existing clients on the basis of fixed fees for well defined projects or for a volume of less well defined projects. Such fixed fee arrangements, with the inherent predictability of costs that such arrangements entail, enable clients to budget for legal services as they do for other goods and services, according to Paul Prestia, the Chair and co-founder of RatnerPrestia. He indicated this was a primary objective of the new policy, in this time of economic distress, when clients can and should demand predictability and cost containment from their law firms.
Jonathan Spadt, who leads RatnerPrestia’s IP Strategy and Counseling Practice, added that fixed fee billing in that practice area necessitates defining the scope of a study project and adhering to that scope as the project progresses. Scope changes must be dealt with as they occur. This requires discipline on the part of both the firm and the client. The same challenge is faced in litigation and dispute resolution, according to Benjamin Leace and Harrie Samaras, who head the firm’s litigation and dispute resolution efforts. These are typically longer term projects and depend on periodic updating and agreement as to the fixed fees for each upcoming period.
Much of RatnerPrestia’s practice involves preparing and prosecuting patent applications. Kenneth Nigon, who leads the firm’s Patent Preparation and Prosecution Practice, indicates the challenge of fixed fee billing in that practice area, depends on an understanding that the fee applies to a volume of applications which can be dealt with in a uniform way. Typically this takes into consideration the range of complexity in a number of applications from a common source.
RatnerPrestia expects that its new policy of proactively encouraging inquiries concerning alternative billing methods will require each client’s cooperation in order to develop, on an ad hoc basis, realistic and fair alternative billing practices for that particular client. While the firm’s General Terms of Representation have always invited such practices, the new policy indicates that the firm will place increased emphasis on its efforts to pursue such alternatives.
In its third decade, RatnerPrestia is one of the largest intellectual property law firms in the Mid-Atlantic region. Its clients range from start-up companies to multi-billion dollar corporations, both domestic and international, and include well-known institutions and universities. Its attorneys and patent agents include many with advanced degrees in a variety of technologies and with industry experience either in research or as in-house counsel. For more information, call (610) 407-0700.
(251) Comments
Comments
first? Probl not tho.
Where do you get off, you sick little twist? Sexual? I'm not sexual with them. I'm not abusive with them, how dare you write that in your paper without knowing nothing about me, biting's not sex, it's biting! I'm not sick like that. Maybe I should come bite you, would you like that, scotty? I bet you would like that, I am right? You write about me like I'm sick. You're the sick one, you know that? Is that why you like me, scotty? Is that why? I could come bite you; you tell me how sexual it is. You humiliate me like that? You mortify me like that in front of my father? My father's father? Listen to me, smack daddy, crack daddy, little baby whack daddy, here's what's happening. You ain't never going to find them anymore. You aint never gonna see them no more. I'm sending you something right now, You take a good look at this guy, because you ain't ver going to see him no more.
BALLS DEEP IN JEWCIE SHEEP!!!
ok, people, ctfd. at least in the case of MB, salary raises do not go into effect until March. So if MB is going to freeze, you may not know until then.
Second?
ok, people, ctfd. at least in the case of MB, salary raises do not go into effect until March. So if MB is going to freeze, you may not know until then.
Yeah, who is the MB idiot? A first year? MB raises never come in until a March paycheck when they are made retroactively. It's always been that way. That's not saying they won't freeze, but the paycheck amount today means nothing.
Almost first!
I agree with the next comment as long as it is racist.
"Frozen" means that you have to keep paying me that monthy/yearly sum no matter how bad the economy gets, right?
Mind putting that I writing, because I can live with (and sleep at night) with that.
Steptoe & Johnson would be a pretty sweet shoe company.
Does anyone know if they froze salaries at Cahill?
12 - no, they didn't
Apparently V&E is paying a higher bonus to its Texas associates than its comparable NYC associates:
http://texaslawyer.typepad.com/texas_lawyer_blog/2009/01/more-bonus-bucks-in-texas.html
BROBECK'S SALARIES ARE THAWING .... in their grave.
Have any firms announced pay cuts yet, as opposed to just freezes?
10, I don't think "frozen" means what you think it means.
The student bar association has decided to freeze...DEEZ NUTZ!
-SBA President
13 steath layoffs took place today at DLA Piper. the victims were 1-5 year associates--- 3 blacks, 4 non-closeted homosexuals, 1 disabled vet, 3 arab americans, and 2 pregnant females.
no severance, no notice.
Which DLA office?
When a firm freezes salaries is it generally the case they also freeze billing rates?
The student bar association has decided to freeze...DEEZ NUTZ!
-SBA President
MAYER BROWN wants its ASS KIDNEY back. Sorry, bro.
#19 - and a partridge in a pear tree?
Ballard Spahr ... they are biglaw?
Ballard Spahr sounds like some kind of wing strut used on a sopwith camel biplane in the First World War.
20 do you really think 19s post is true? Do you really think DLA would lay off only pregnant women, disabled vets, afrcian americans and homosexuals? It was a joke
Typical douche-baggery. Nice wording! Let's try and expand all the uses of the douchebag expression.
Douchery. Douchness. Douchey.
Any other suggestions?
1, here. So what I really wanted to say is--give us an update on the Cahill Layoffs. Are the Rumors true? Please tell meeeeeeee.
For the benefit of any managing partners who may (doubtful as it would be) check this site out, could we get a story about all the firms that did NOT freeze salaries?
Lol at #21
For the benefit of any managing partners who may (doubtful as it would be) check this site out, could we get a story about all the firms that did NOT freeze salaries?
Greenberg Traurig has done salary freezes in many of their offices - they are just not owing up to it in writing
20 do you really think 19s post is true? Do you really think DLA would lay off only pregnant women, disabled vets, afrcian americans and homosexuals? It was a joke
Not the way the firm probably wanted to start the New Year. On Monday, a former client-the CEO of Verizon-testified in the criminal trial of Vince Fumo-a powerful state senator involved in a pay to play scandal. He testified that he met with Ballard's Managing Partner Makadon and another "power" player at the firm- David Cohen- now GC at Comcast-. He met them because as Verizon's counsel, he wanted to alert them to a memo he received with the Senator's $50 million dollar wish list of goodies for him and his friends. (i.e. send Fumo's lawfirm $2.5 million in business per year etc) If the wish list was granted, the CEO testified that Fumo would not push legislation seeking the dismantling of Verizon. According the Verizon chief, he thought the wish list was frankly illegal. But, the Ballard attornies told him to "work it out with the Senator". Of course, the Ballard lawyers have no real recollection of the meeting with the CEO of their client regarding this topic and claim ignorance as to any memo with a $50 million dollar wish list- although it exists and is in evidence in the criminal case. And, now, today, they are freezing salaries. And now ATL is reporting a salary freeze- not a lot of good press this week coming out of Ballard.
ambush
At many, many firms, the raise doesn't go into effect until mid-to-late January, or even February or March, then the first few paychecks are bumpred up retroactively.
Honestly, this is a ridiculous post -- who are the morons sending this stuff in, and who are the ATL people considering it "evidence"?
27 - WHERE is the Douche Patrol? Never have we needed him so badly.
It's sad, but deez nuts actually made me laugh out loud. Or doz nuts. Not deez. Whatever.
and NOW FOR YOUR BLACK-U-WEATHER FORECAST
"YOU GUNNA FREEZE, SUCKA!"
Thanks, Ollie.
ambush
33 - Some of the people fell into more than one category so it wasn't ONLY those people. There was, I believe, one pregnant African American disabled veteran lesbian on the layoff list.
I'm gonna to get you high. It's friday, and you ain't got no job...you ain't got shit to do!
I'm gonna get you high. It's friday, and you ain't got no job...you ain't got shit to do!
Although this probably isn't the case, make sure you're looking at a pay stub of some sort and not just the net deposit. Social security tax kicks in again at the beginning of the year, so if you don't get a raise your paycheck actually goes down (assuming you didn't have a stub year).
41 you are very funny. 33
in light of freezing conditions, ski instructor looking to hit the slopes with some sexy snow bunnies.
12 - Cahill is not freezing salaries.
47, correct they are just laying people off.
Mekka Don is now MP at Ballard?
44, do you happen to know why this is? I didn't understand when I got my paycheck on January 2, why the firm had deducted the full SS tax as if I'd worked two weeks, rather than just two days, of the new year. Shouldn't the SS tax have just been paid on those two days?
4 and 7 - um, no. MB nyc salary increases in '08 took effect w/ the first check in january.
4 and 7 - um, no. MB nyc salary increases in '08 took effect w/ the first check in january.
Kash: This is the second ridiculous article you've posted about MB in the past week or so that, had you checked with someone who actually works there, you would know is complete BS.
50, the tax is paid on the amount of the paycheck.
what happened to the anti-semitic sheep guy that was posting on here yesterday? you think he was layed off at cahill?
Did Milbank raise?
isn't this paycheck for 2008 pay still? Or are these people getting paid weekly (I assumed biweekly/semi-monthly paychecks were the norm)
Is it true that if you eat a CWT NY 05 female associate you get anal leakage the next day?
details about cahill layoffs? seriously. we need to know...
If the amount in direct deposit is the same as the last paycheck, that's a good sign since approximately 450 dollars are taken out every paycheck for social security out of the first $100,000 or so dollars. Your raise, depending on your year would be about that amount per paycheck, after taxes, if you were getting paid twice a month. Did these tipsters look at the gross on their pay stub?
BITCH UNFREEZE THOSE BUTTCHEEKS SO I CAN GET A GOOD LOOK AT THOSE JUICE INSIDES!
25 - 500 points (out of a maximum of 100) for knowing what a sopwith camel is. Though of course snipe > camel.
Agree with 57. Even if this paycheck reflects 2009, it's only for the pro-rata portion of the check that was at 2009 rates. In the past it may be that the first check of the new year was for a full two week pay period. In this instance 7 of the 10 days of the pay period were 09 and 3 were 08. Which is why the big firms make the adjustment at the end of January and lump the difference between the 08 and 09 rates for January into one check.
50, it's because individuals are taxed on a cash basis and not on an accrual basis.
60 - MB pay stubs state the "salary rate" so it's pretty clear.
27---how about--Frodo Douchebaggins
Cahill layoffs? Anyone? Anyone?
62 - it's a type of airplane used in WWI.
KASH: You missed a very nice reference to "Office Space," where the two Bobs explain that the best way to get rid of Milton and not cause a scene is to merely stop paying him. He'll get the hint eventually. The problem will fix itself!
My firm doesn't raise until March.
I know this though, so I wasn't expecting a raise in my first January paycheck. If the tipsters were expecting that, based on historic practice, and they didn't hear jack shit, that's some serious bull shit.
You Cahill layoff posters are getting as insufferable as the Jones Day bonus posters a few weeks back. And that's hard to do.
Wait, did somebody say something about layoffs at Cahill?
Cahill layoffs??
Hold on... Cahill's having layoffs?
71 - Is there any news about bonuses at Jones Day?
Kaye Scholer is 1) paying below Cravath level bonuses; and 2) freezing salaries (a "solid ice" freeze) for 2009.
OMG, my best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who heard that layoffs were going at Cahill last night. I guess it's pretty serious.
I have confirmed with several senior associates at MB that pay raises do not occur until March. Associates then get paid retroactively.
So... how da coons doin' this fine evening?
77 - Do you have that girl's social security number and mother's maiden name for confirmation?
66 = victory.
In NY, in past years, MB pay raises were in effect in January Paycheck.
I have confirmed with several MB NY Sr. Associates, that anyone who says otherwise, doesn't know shiznit.
78 - NYC? tell them to check out their jan. pay stubs from last year.
for serious. i don't work at cahill, but i can't eat, i can't sleep... all i can do is think "will today be the day that cahill layoffs are confirmed?" please - someone, anyone, i'm begging you, stop playing with my heart and JUST TELL ME... cahill layoffs?
In NY, in past years, MB pay raises were in effect in January Paychecks.
I have confirmed with several MB NY Sr. Associates, that anyone who says otherwise, doesn't know shiznit.
In NY, in past years, MB pay raises were in effect in January Paychecks.
I have confirmed with several MB NY Sr. Associates, that anyone who says otherwise, doesn't know shiznit.
Kaye Scholer below-market bonuses and pay freeze. Wonderful.
I've never even met anybody that works at Cahill, but all I can think about is whether they're having layoffs or not.
rumor has it, cahill might be having layoffs.
Cleary just sent around a memo confirming business-as-usual associate salary bumps. Rather sad that firms feel the need to boast about that sort of thing.
I have it on excellent authority that Cahill will NOT be having layoffs at least through the end of 2008.
I can confirm salary freeze in effect at Dreier LLP
If MB salary increases are not effective until March 1, are they temporary salary freezes or salary cuts? Likewise, is the retroactive (assuming it happens) salary increase, a salary defreeze or a prorated bonus?
We got a lot of serious shit to deal with here folks, none of which requires a live chicken.
Lat - are you still reading? If you want your blog and business to survive, you need to (must) exert more editorial control over the trash that is now posted on here and COMMENTS MUST BE MODERATED.
This site has become a joke. I'm sick of wading through the shit posted by law students at third tier schools to actually read news.
Also, for the LOVE OF GOD, start a comprehensive thread, like you used to when you ran the site, with a chart detailing bonuses, layoffs and salary freezes for the V100 firms.
Save ATL from further devolving into the JOKE and CLUSTERF_CK it has become.
Also - consider banning all IP addresses from law schools.
Lat - are you still reading? If you want your blog and business to survive, you need to (must) exert more editorial control over the trash that is now posted on here and COMMENTS MUST BE MODERATED.
This site has become a joke. I'm sick of wading through the shit posted by law students at third tier schools to actually read news.
Also, for the LOVE OF GOD, start a comprehensive thread, like you used to when you ran the site, with a chart detailing bonuses, layoffs and salary freezes for the V100 firms.
Save ATL from further devolving into the JOKE and CLUSTERF_CK it has become.
Also - consider banning all IP addresses from law schools.
STEALTH LAYOFFS AT ATL.
HOPE WINTERS HASN'T POSTED IN MONTHS!!!!!
75: yeah, they suck - just like your firm.
-Skadden
How many were laid off at Cahill this week?
94-95 = Laid off Cahill associate.
OMG, 77, that's so weird! My best friend's brotherr's girlfriend's sister's boyfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who heard that layoffs were going at Cahill last night. I guess it really is pretty serious!
These letters sound like they were written by the same person:
As you all know, 2008 was a year of unprecedented economic distress across global financial markets. No sector is immune from the impact of the economic downturn, including law firms. Throughout 2008, firm management implemented a variety of measures to address the financial situation. As the Partners Committee has engaged in the budgeting process for 2009, it has become apparent that additional expense savings are mandated for sound financial stewardship of the firm.
To that end, associates will be paid the same base compensation in 2009 as they were paid in 2008: in Los Angeles, our associates will move to the new A&B pay scale, but at their 2008 class year level. This is only one aspect of our continuing efforts to manage expenses and costs. We will persist in these efforts together and all firm personnel, including partners, will undoubtedly be impacted by these measures.
This decision will be re-visited through the year. Our bonus program for 2009 will remain in effect, as per our policy.
These are times unlike any other. By our prudent and thoughtful management of this enterprise, we can look forward to a successful 2009. Let’s turn our focus now to working with our clients and our communities toward that end. Thank you for your continuing and valued contributions.
why do you say that the comments are posted by law students at third tier schools? i would take a guess and say probably 80-90% of the students commenting here are in the so-called "top" elite schools. you know, the ones who are so full of themselves, think they are god's gift, have no social skills or grace or manners (i.e. look at the comments here).
i can tell you that the lower level law school students i talk to occasionally don't have the time (or luxury) to read/dream about biglaw that is spouted on here. they're too busy stressing about their already bad career prospects made even worse by the prestige-whore law firms who equate, for the most part, top elite schools = only great attorneys. so back off.
95--agreed on all counts. Especially the need for a list of shame.
One addition to 94/95's advice Lat: fix the g-damn double post thing. Somehow. Anyhow.
Anyone who is not an a$$hole have any real information about cahill gordon?
I've heard some rumors about layoffs at Thelen. Anyone confirm?
The comment section is no longer relevant. Everyone should stop reading it.
77-
Thank you, Simone.
107 --
I'm sorry, could you repeat that? I wasn't listening.
By "Please investigate," I assume that the Mayer Brown tipster did not mean "Oh, just re-print my e-mail." Here's an idea for ATL: How about doing some actual reporting and telling us if in fact MB, Steptoe & Johnson, or Stroock froze their salaries, rather than just cutting and pasting some e-mails and then speculating about the matter?
So I shouldn't be rubbing up against any partner from Cahill? Is that what you are saying? Hope Winters
95 - good suggestions.
Fenwick & West just froze.
105 - there is no news. Look at the comments in others posts and you'll see it's an obvious flame. Kind of like the whole Skadden DC thing a little while back. ATL is becoming more and more like AutoAdmit with each passing day. Sad.
Thanks 114
"RatnerPrestia expects that its new policy of proactively encouraging inquiries concerning alternative billing methods will require each client's cooperation in order to develop, on an ad hoc basis, realistic and fair alternative billing practices for that particular client."
Maybe they should bill by the syllable?
Cleary announced 2009 salary increeases effective January 1, 2009.
111, you should definitely not stop rubbing up on cahill partners. they're going to need you more than ever after they fire all the not-so-hot young associates. otherwise, they might have to rub themselves...
Many more firms will freeze next week. Sorry, but this is a Depression.
I can't WAIT until firms start DECREASING salaries again. There would have to be suicide watch posts for you over-entitled twits. Folks are losing jobs left and right and y'all act like it's the freaking Holocast for lawyers when there is a salary freeze. Grow some balls, be thankful you have jobs, and put things in perspective. I'm sooooo sorry you associates have to wait another year before you upgrade your BMW 3-series to a 5-series and that you have to fly coach to Vail instead of first-class. I feel like I am watching that South Park episode involving music file-sharing and the "A Christmas Carol" parody everytime I read the comments here.
I got a big raise this year. Haha!
Oh, wait, im still at work at 6:45 on Friday. Ok, less exciting.
-2006 Grad, document bitch
120- either a Partner or a Commie- either way unwelcome.
120 - you seem kind of angry; you must be a) support staff, b) a personal injury lawyer, or c) a [soon to be] unemployed TTT law student. I'll keep your comment in mind when I pick up my TT Roadster next week.
-not a big fan of BMW biglaw associate. I do enjoy all-wheel drive convertibles, though.
********
This is from OFFICE SPACE.
********
"Yeah, we fixed the glitch. He'll get the message."
anyone heard anything about king & spaulding raising or freezing?
My 3-series is in the shop right now. Thankfully, the service manager at the dealership by my house is the son of one of my dad's friends so I'm driving a 5-series loaner for now.
Take that, 120 and 123!
-BMW biglaw associate
95, most of the comments are terrible. But who cares? ATL still gives the dirt. Good enough.
MB NYCers - the fact that in SOME years (not all) you may have gotten a salary increase on jan. first in the past was because salaries and bonuses had already been determined firm-wide and, for whatever reason, NY office was faster to pay them out. The fact that THIS year you don't have an increase yet WITHOUT any firmwide announcement (which has NEVER happened, btw) doesn't mean anything. It is what happens normally at every other MB office every year (and also has happened in NYC in the past). Sure, it is possible (maybe even probable) that MB will announce a freeze, but keep your panties on; the fact that a raise isn't in your paycheck doesn't mean anything other than that there hasn't been an announcement yet (which we already knew). Hence, this is not newsworthy.
Kash, seriously. Do the words "check sources" mean anything to you?
I can confirm that at least 8 associates were laid off at Cahill yesterday.
123, convertibles, huh? Cool.
--> RECESSION FRIDAY MAKES IT HAPPY FRIDAY! <--
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/cas/985940343.html
131--If you think convertibles are cool you should see me in my 5-series loaner.
-BMW biglaw associate
First, just buy a two year old five to begin with rather than a new three. threes are for bitches.
Second, fuck vail, lets talk deer valley.
Third, BMW does not make a 4x4 convertible. Audi does, but its for bitches too.
128, the fact that the January 2009 Mayer Brown paycheck doesn't mean anything is true, but the fact that Mayer Brown hasn't yet announced salaries firmwide or bonuses outside of NYC IS newsworthy and does not bode well.
5s are ugly, 3 coupe is where its at
I kind of like the Audi TT convertible. Rear-wheel drive cars are great until it rains/snows.
audi = laid-off cahill associate
got my bonus: a half-cup of cold nut nog....
YES, Ballard Spahr is Biglaw. Its one of the Top 3 firms in Philly. So is Echert Seamans Philly with over 200 lawyers.
GO E-A-G-L-E-S!!!!
Perhaps MB is just waiting to see what the potential reaction from a salary freeze would be before making a final decision whether to freeze or not.
139 said "nut not" . . . that's cool.
oops . . . i meant "nut nog"!
140, you need to rethink your Philly top three. Morgan, Dechert, yes, but Ballard is top 10 at best. Blank, Reed Smith, Pepper, Drinker, Duane all come before Ballard. Being well-connected in Philly politics is not, actually, a good thing, when the former mayor had a DOJ wiretap in his office and the current state senator/mafia don is on trial for everything short of a RICO claim.
Go Eagles though, you were right about that.
Philly to 125!
Mercedes pwns BMW and Audi...
Mercedes is for old fogey partners
fucking jews ruining the u.s.
tt's are for fags
123 = fag
123 = rick rolled
Here's for 101 - stop the sh-t. - Partner profits are down less than associate compensation.
Are firms going to start revoking offers to 3Ls set to start in September?
Dear Ms. Hill,
Please consider doing some additional research before you publish these rumors. I know for a fact that Mayer Brown does not increase pay for each class year until late Feb/early March (the check is retroactive to Jan. 1 and includes your bonus). Given this practice, the lack of a raise in the first paycheck of the year IS NOT NEWS - in fact it is does not mean anything.
Finally, please consider posting an actual roundup of firms that are giving class raises as scheduled. An informal list of firms that are moving forward with raises helps put the salary freeze/cut issue into context. For example, while Skadden and Cravath have both moved forward with regular salary increases, so has Dechert. The fact that a firm like Dechert is not freezing salaries, shows that salary increases are not just limited to the very top firms. Dechert, like a number of other firms, was not dependent on New York Banks for a significant percentage of its revenue. Many other firms within the AmLaw 100 have strong litigation and regulatory practices -- and should be doing fairly well in this economy. It would be nice to know which firms are doing well - and which firms are not.
Dear 152,
Dechert is a terrible place to work and Bart Winokur is a snake.
I can confirm that Stroock froze salaries.
Stroock also laid off about 10% of its associates.
How about a post listing the firms that have not frozen salaries? Someone posted above that Cleary is raising as usual, and they are not alone. A summary of which firms are raising vs. which ones are not would be good, posts that only talk about freezes don't give an accurate picture of what is going on and allow firm management (who all read this) to turn perception into reality.
Message to firms that have yet to announce -- DO NOT FREEZE
Remember that by freezing, you risk losing your best associates (who have the most lateral options).
Also, you ensure that the sub-par associates who do remain at the firm will bill no more than is required in order to compensate for the fact that friends down the street are making $20K more (i.e., you're going to have many more associates who have consistently billed 2200-2400 hours in the past coming in at just over 2000 hours, and not because they couldn't find more work). If just one mid-level associate chooses to bill 200 hours less, you're losing out on about $80K in revenue, which would have been enough to pay for four associates' salary increases.
21: Has anyone heard of an increased rate? Who should pay that? Obama?
lol at 30
OK 158 comments and no on enoticed that the Ratner announcement doesn't mention freezing salaires? ATL is simply becoming a series of comment-bait. Post anything and wathc 15 idiots hit post and refresh ad nauseum.
message to 157 - there are NO decent lateral options, no one is hiring those without portables.
if you are a senior associate with say a million in true portable work, you MIGHT go to a regional firm, but the chances of that work following from mega firm to regional can be slim in many cases.
bottom line - shut the f*ck up, and pray the depression endssoon.
Yes, lateral options may be slim now, but just wait a month or two. Work is picking up at my firm after being slow around November/December. Plus, most lateral movement takes place in February to April.
I'm a mid-level and I still get about 5-7 recruiting calls a week. Granted, I don't talk to them long enough to find out if it is a firm vs. something else that is looking to hire, but there are definitely options out there still.
lateral calls =/= jobs
lateral calls = headhunters with time on their hands trying, against all hope, to do a deal
you idiots really think any firm is looking to hire associates just now? you might be able to downstream from a vault 10 to small local firm if you are a litigator. might. if you are an m&a associate, you fuked.
163 - they all have jobs; I know that for sure. I work in a relatively specialized area though, and agree with you on people who do more or less bread-and-butter litigation and m&a being fucked. That's not even the majority of associates at my firm, however.
164 is correct - the IP types are ok as that work cannot be done by any moron with a poly sci degree and shiTTTlaw jd. Basic corporate or lit or real estate is simply not in demand. There is a downside to being in a speciality with literally zero barriers to entry.
I think the sex crazed female "CWT '05" associate you keep referring to actually began working there in June 2006. She was a TTTer as well......her looks had NOTHING to do with her getting the job btw.
Vinson and Elkins just announced late yesterday that there will be no freeze and that there will be regular pay increases and bonuses paid to all associates. Where VE goes, the rest of Texas will follow.
130 - Which departments did the associates work in?
130 - Which departments did the associates work in?
169 - Corporate and Litigation
I love the guys that say they get 5-7 calls a week from recruiters or the gals that say "don't freeze- or you'll lose your best associates to other firms."
Just go. Try it. Go meet with the recruiters. Find out which firms are actually hiring laterals. This proves most of the comments are from first or second years who don't know better. Vault 10 firms have laid people off. Prior to layoffs, they already shuffled bright associates from dead departments into other departments. I know plenty of T14 grads from Vault 20 firms with over 4 years of experience that can't move. Of course "some" people move- but thinking that there's a robust- or even healthy lateral market is delusional. Its like saying "I saw 2 Nintendo Wii's on the shelf yesterday- they're available everywhere."
Stop b*tching and just move to another firm if you're unhappy with the freeze- if you're so sure you can.
171 - what about the wii fit?
155: was that the firm directive that 10% of every dept?
171: Stop bitching. I already told you I was a midlevel and I know the jobs exist. There are certain specialized practice areas (quite a few actually) that continue to be hot (and where there are few associates with experience, especially at the midlevel). As I'm sure you can appreciate, there are a lot of considerations into whether to jump to another firm. Some people WILL be making that move; don't hate them because they have options that you don't.
You know how many foods are shaped like dicks? The best kinds.
I echo 174 - there are midlevel and senior associate jobs out there, especially in specialities such as IP prosecution and licensing, restructuring and antitrust. Because I work at DLA I am staying on the phone long enough to confirm that there indeed is a job at a V50 firm at the other end. Funny, one of the calls I got was for a position at LaTTTham - thanks but no thanks uncle Scrooge....
176, if you work at DLA and you think there are other jobs out there then why do you work at DLA? Close call as to whether DLA or Cadwalader is the next to disintegrate but I would put my money on DLA. BTW, are they trying to pay associate salaries (and/or their electricity bills) with DLA equity now?
170 - What years were the laid off associates? Any talk of further lay offs at Cahill?
Mayer Brown won't make any announcements until Sidley tells it what to do.
echo 178 - puh puh puh puh puhhhllleeeeeeezzz 170, give more juicy details about the 8 associates laid off at cahill. it makes me hot just thinking about it....
Latham and Orrick are looking to hire laterals in IP lit. Good luck, freeze asses.
MB follows Kirkland more than Sidley.
At what point does it stop being a "layoff" and start just being the same old thing that every firm does every year? I was under the impression that firms always thin out the weakest people if they don't leave on their own, even in boom years. Is that not the case? If so, why the heck do we care so much if Cahill cut 8 people?
177 - we found out about the salary freeze about a week ago. That, in combination with the huge billing rate increases and the fact that only 13 people made partner in the US (all learned within a few days of each other) has convinced a lot of people that DLA is in pretty poor shape (but no, no one here thinks the firm is even close to dissolving).
You have to understand that a lateral move takes time -- for a senior associate with a small book the conflict checks alone will take at least a month. For that reason it is also important to make sure you land in the right place, and not in the next LaTTTham or Heller. I much appreciate your concern, and can assure you that come April I will have taken my practice elsewhere.
- 176
I don't understand all the handwringing about jobs. I have a Ph.D. in biochem, did an oncology fellowship at Sloan Kettering and am now a third year at a T20 law school. No-one has indicated to me that my employment prospects have dimmed.
--Oblivious
183: I agree with you. It's prudent business to cut the egregious under-performers and almost every single firm does it every year. I guess it's getting so much attention now because other firms have made larger than average cuts and firms like Cahill that are not in trouble are getting lumped together with them.
I'm sure someone will respond with "but I chose law instead of banking because it's safer, less risky, etc." To them, I say that a 1-5% yearly firing system is still a very "safe" work environment. Companies and banks have been making HUGE cuts recently. Anything under 10% at a law firm isn't really a big deal and should probably go unnoticed.
183 - "Thinning" the ranks is conducting lay offs, plain & simple. Who cares what label you slap on it? A lay off is a lay off is a lay off.
Thinning the ranks isn't synonymous with laying people off, it's synonymous for firing people. Laying people off is generally a term reserved for firings that occur because of the economy. In fact, it used to mean a temporary fire with the understanding that a re-hire would occur when the economy picked back up. So, for some logic 101--all layoffs are firings, but not all firings are layoffs.
For the ignorant among us: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layoff
185,
Non-rhetorical question here. What led you to go to law school and, apparently, seek a career in law versus science or medicine?
Dear 152 --- I chose to highlight Dechert because of how different it is from Cravath and Skadden...in other words if Dechert, a mid tier firm can afford raises, then so can a lot of other firms. Beyond that, slamming it is unnecessary and makes you look like an even bigger cunt than you are.
The comments above about jobs being available for senior associates are simply bullshit. Other than IP, no firm is looking for senior associates. And the hot BK practices (which are far fewer than you might think) are not looking for corporate associates to retrain. You are screwed, so deal with it like an adult: work hard, and keep your mouth shut.
191 = fag
191 = rickrolled
Latham has a hiring freeze and is doing secret layoffs.
Fuck Latham.
They should never be mentioned.
Stroock said it would base its 2009 compensation on what the market did - if the market froze salaries, it would too. Not sure whether its made its ultimate decision.
Funniest thing though, was that Strock based its bonus on a minimum 1900 hours. Anyone not above that number receivid $0. Guess how many were above that number last year at Stroock? Nonetheless, Stroock's gonna claim it paid "market bonuses"
There are two kinds of people: sheep and sharks. Anyone who's a sheep is fired. Who's a sheep?
196: Which is the kind people like to hug?
196 - Your Mom's a sheep.
198 - You Rock.
steptoe always gives the same check at the beginning of the year until everyone's hours are calculated, because if you don't make your hours, part of your salary is held back for the next year. you'll get your money in like february retroactively.
maybe before you start b*tching like chicken little and stirring everyone into a tizzy, you should like ASK someone at your own damn firm. they'd be happy to tell you. the only douche here is this associate and his doomsday email.
Are there stealth layoffs at OMM?
The 80s guy looks like a Simpson's character.
201:
80s guy is a Futurama character and, like The Simpsons, Matt Groening's creation.
Schulte had a round of layoffs and is having a salary freeze.
STB had round 2 of layoffs in Nov. Round 3 within the next 2 months.
I can confirm that about Schulte.
expect many more announcements this week. The firms announcing freezes now will not attract the negative attention of the early movers, but receive the same economic benefits (i.e., survival).
Where are the dopes saying how these firms will pay some price in the future for this and how not kissing the ass of dopey junior associates is bad business?
195: Not true. There were a number of people over 1900. Stroock also said you had to hit 1900 before they decided IF you get anything. A few were over 1900 and still got ZERO.
-Pissed.
zomg! someone billed 1923 hours in a SINGLE year in NYC and did not get a bonus?????
alert the media SONNNNNNN
CGSH JUST RAISED SALARIES - THANK YOU CLEARY!!!! SO WHERE ARE THE OTHER FIRMS????
all you top associaTTTes should just join CBSH or whatever 209 is babbling on about - they seem to be so busy they are raising salaries on a Sunday afternoon....on Giants PLAYOFF SUNDAY at that!
It's not true. Latham is not laying off.
211--get your head out of the sand. Latham has been doing stealth layoffs for a year in certain offices.
Lat - please come back. Cleary is raising - and instead we get a post about how ATL is not the best law blog - duh - this site has gone downhill since you left.
181 latham and orrick have been trying to hire lateral IP lit people for about ten years now. They could not do it before the freeze.
If Schulte had a round of layoffs they got rid of 6 people. The attorney count has been 475 since September, now it is 469. Don't know about the freeze.
Right on, 206.
Dopes to 125!
185 - Go back to Sloan, you pompous fucktard.
Sure 211. It's just that a much larger percentage of Latham's associates suck more than they ever have before.
i'm sick of everyone bashing latham. it's an amazing firm with great folks including the partners. the so called salary freeze was a recognition by our very capable management that all of us had to take a hit for the betterment of the firm. do not doubt for a second that other firms will either be following suit or laying off folks in droves. i for one am proud to be at a firm with such capable managers. going forward, the firm is set to thrive.
218 - see how you feel when the partner profits numbers come out and you realize you've been pwned.
218 is a wise poster, and will still be in this business in a few years unlike most of you greedy, no business having associates.
220=218-=latham partner
Guys in high school used to freeze the freshmen's salaries all the time...it was no big deal.
218 is a partner. Your salary freeze is not a sacrifice for the team. If the firm were in real danger of folding, the freeze would not stop it. The freeze is a transfer of money from associates to partners, nothing more. The ratio of partner-to-associate comp grows unabated.
Agree with 156 -- contrary to ATL's earlier comment that it isn't "news" to report which firms raise salaries, I believe it is. I need to know which firms to send my resume to after the first billing period is over for all firms.
ATL -- POST A LIST OF FIRMS THAT HAVE NOT FROZEN. PLEASE LISTEN TO YOUR READERS.
GO TO THE COMMUNITY SECTION TO SEE A LIST OF FIRMS THAT HAVE NOT FROZEN.
not frozen....yet!
By April, most firms will have clearly frozen.
By April, most firms will have clearly frozen.
and if not, . . . by June . . . . and if not . . . by September . . . . and if not, by December . . . and if not, by _____ you get the idea.
Don't fool yourselves. Not all firms will be freezing salaries. yes, many will. Perhaps, even most firms will. But not all. The real question is: which firms will be left freeze-free . . and why?
The list of firms that have already announced that they are giving salary increases as usual is not short.
218 is a dumbass. I certainly hope you are a partner, otherwise you should be awarded the most stupid associate award. Latham will eventually chew you and spit you out for such loyalty. Trust me.
230 is right. Latham has already indicated layoffs are not off the table.
My firm (smaller firm) pays first years $70 per billable hour. Period. We got a modest Christmas bonus too. I love that structure.
Alston & Bird froze salaries.
Any other A&B folks on here? What's everyone thinking? Is this just a bullshit move to keep PPP above $1 million? Or is the firm in real trouble? Anyone hearing anything about layoffs (stealth or otherwise)?
call me what you want, but you all can't see the forest through the trees.
A&B has been carrying around dead weight at all levels for several years now.
Flat fee arrangements will mean the emphasis of all big law firms will be, at long last, on efficiency. So guess what bitches? The need for organ grinder monkeys (associates) to turn the crank on the law firm organ (pun intended) just disappeared.
Prepare for a long ugly slide into redundancy. Hope you saved some money along the way.
oh 237...i didn't save any money. oh lordie, can i suck your dick to help pay the bills big boy? i promise to keep the teeth away from your veiny schlong and stroke the nut sack all for a shiny quarter. my mom will lick your ass for good measure.
A&B email came at 5:30pm Friday. How lame.
234, all indications from partners I speak to are that the firm overall is in great shape. But If I had to guess, layoffs are coming too but probably in small numbers.
This is 239, and let me clarify that "great shape" is obviously subject to interpretation.
Greedy Associates South (apparently some folks still venture over there) has a couple bad rumors about A&B. Hopefully 239 is a better forecaster. But if the firm is in great shape, the freeze pisses me off even more.
http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/clubs.tcl?topic=Greedy%20South
nice
I am not sure the partners at the freeze firms are very concerned that their associates will all take jobs at cravath/wachtell etc. Do you non-IP TTTurdes at whatever vault 11-100 firm you are at really believe that (i) firms are really hiring corporate, lit, real estate, etc associates just now? and (ii) that your credentials are sufficient for any non-freeze firm?
A&B did freeze salaries on Friday and I agree that waiting until 5:30 on the day that paystubs are suppose to be posted is lame. Indications are that they will reduce headcount based on performance reviews as opposed to calling them layoffs. They have moved reviews up by roughly 4 weeks (senior associates are suppose to be done by end of Jan. and Juniors by end of March as opposed to Feb and April). #101 is the email that was sent out.
244 - by why wouldn't atl run a weekend long moronathon on that as it has done for other firms?
I love the 80s guy and in answer to 197:
Gutsy question. You're a shark. Sharks are winners, and they don't look back because they have no necks. Necks are for sheep.
lucky for the attorneys in LA at A&B...
Freeze at Steptoe & Johnson is confirmed. They just issued the memo today.
134. Only weakass biglaw associates who need to drive BMW's would ever mention deer valley. Try some real skiing -- maybe jackson hole or something -- true they don't park your car and carry your skis for you...on second though never mind real skiier don't want you floundering around anyway, so stay at deer valley.
218: We didn't.
According to todays Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung Latham & Watkins has also frozen salaries in germany.