How about if you're just morally bankrupt?

I once knew a sweet girl who was bankrupt in the face. Sweet, sweet, Dolly. Where have you gone?

-SBA President

GT to V50...heard it here first

Do these poachings really work, or do clients still go with the old firm for the name? Will Despins take Cerberus and Silver Point's business to PHJW? Has Beinenstock gotten much business for Dewey? Cravath claimed that it was setting up this great BK practice, and I've never heard of them on any bankruptcy matter.

Will a new bankruptcy co-chair be picked to join Palmer?

5 - Bienenstock got Dewey a piece of the GM pie:

http://www.thelawyer.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=136061&d=415&h=417&f=416

Just as CWT got the LyondellBasell bankruptcy work.

Please proofread Elie's posts. He is apparently unable or unwilling to do that for himself.

But what about the layoffs at Cahill?

Lat's prose is very clean.

That LyondellBasel work means CWT is not going anywhere. The fact that Pfizer's been rumbling about making a major acquisition also bodes well. I think CWT has handled most of their M&A work in the past

I initially read this post and thought to myself "wow, MysTTTal has really been improving his writing." Then I saw that it was written by Lat.

from the frying pan into the fire?

5 - partners don't really have book. Nor are they paid more than associates. It is really all just in your head.

This seems to be GT's third recent attempt to start a BK practice in NYC. I hope the partners like to work because there are no associates in the group. This is a HUGE step down for the CWT guys (fruit flies not bed bugs at GT) so I hope they were promised a lot of money.

Maybe the third time will be a charm?

The move from CWT to GT is a huge move downmarket. Er, or it would have been a year ago. Now it's a move from a dying firm to one that will survive.

I'm sure GT will provide all the asssociates these partners need.

5 - Thanks for a great laugh. Despins never worked on Cerberus matters (and in fact PH lost some Cerberus work when he arrived) and Silver Point is definitely Dunne's client.

So much for the fear that giving regular salary increases to associates would scare away the rainmakers......

So, these guys moved from the Hindenberg to the Titanic?

Greenberg has frozen associate salaries in many many cities but is doing it one-on-one and not telling the whole firm or owning up to it - TTT all the way

These gents are originally from Weil way back and they built CWT's bankruptcy practice. From what I've heard, Zirinsky's book is over $30 mil. They probably were leeched to death by the CWT partnership and probably will get to keep more cash at GT.

So CWT has massive layoffs, has one of their main practice areas disappear in the credit crunch, and they still are highly leveraged at a time when firms with lower leverage can't find enough work for their associates to do. And now they lose two partners in one of the only areas that's still generating business.

But an anonymous associate says everything's okay, and he doesn't think they're about to "dissolv[e] or implod[e]." Oh, okay. I guess everything's fine then. No big deal. I mean, it's not as if a steady stream of defections of profitable partners brought down Heller or anything.

speaking of moral and intellectual bankruptcy - on CNN now there is a picture of the man who was shot in the back by a transit officer on New Years Day holding his young son, who will be an orphan. That is very sad. But whose fault is it?
A picture tells a thousand words, but all the wrong ones. Let's add some context: it was 2 in the morning, and the man was drunk. He had been pulled off a crowded train after reports were received that a fight had broken out. What probably happened, as BART seems to be suggesting - is that the violently drunk bastard struggled and tried to grab at the gun of the cop who was sitting on his back. At that point, the only thing the second officer could do is should the dickwad. What more do you want?

Most killers have families - should we spare them because their poor kids will be orphans?

C'mon people - try to see a little bit beyond the pop propoganda the media shovels down your throat. After all, CNN wants to make money just as much as CBS, ABC, and NBC. Thus, the networks produce shit like "The Bachelor" and "Wipeout" which the idiot mases gobble up, and CNN offers heartbreaking drivel on cop killing fuckers. I bet I could make Adolf Hitler look sympathetic with a few photographs and a limp dicked CNN comentator.
The same goes for Hamas and their poor kids.

What the f are you talking about?

26, please put the settlements (which are still going on) into context

#6, answer is likely yes- Rapisarde--- he's already co runs this group w/ palmer is what ive heard and will likely pick up the "not even warm" management commitee seat left vacant by zirinsy... from media coverage, he landed a whale of a debtor in lynodell so likely will be rewarded---------

zirinskes a great lawyer- no doubt about it- but these 30 figures are insane----

#6 & #29, the 30 figure is past history and very stale. that number is about what the firm made all in from representing northwest in chapter 11. bruce's current portable biz number is probably closer to 5 and headed south. nothing spectacular.

bruce is a dinosaur and really has no meaningful client relationships left. northwest is merged into delta. pfizer belongs to dennis block (any word on whether he is going to gt? doubtful.). barclays perhaps, but that relationship doesn't really seem to be going anywhere. a couple (literally) of hedge fund guys call every so often, but that source of business has really dwindled to almost nothing. that's really about it.

cwt is much better off without him. and from what i've heard, john bay is a pure service partner who will not move the needle at all business origination wise (zero in his entire career thus far). my guess whatever gt agreed to (over)pay will turn out to be far too much.

derrick palmer and john rapisardi wanted bruce out from the day they arrived. it is no surprise that the moment they got some real business (lyondell), nearly two years later, and bruce had nothing, bruce was forced out. par for the course at cwt i would say.

gt ftw

"5 - Thanks for a great laugh. Despins never worked on Cerberus matters (and in fact PH lost some Cerberus work when he arrived) and Silver Point is definitely Dunne's client."

Hey, thanks for the info. Seriously. I'm just a bankruptcy clerk trying to choose a firm and this kind of info is really helpful. I thought some Daily Deal articles suggested that Despins repped Silver Point. Which funds, then, comprise Luc's book? And do you know who typically reps Oaktree?
I'm generally interested in learning the relationships between distressed funds and their preferred lawyers; if anyone can shed some light, I'd appreciate it.

Tilt. Game over.

if these guys had a real book they would not have settled for GTTT. They don't pay and their rep is beyond TTT status. Maybe they will work on all of the existing GT corporate and real estate clients on their inevitable bankruptcies?

28, there are no settlements in Gaza. The settlements are in the West Bank. Israel removed all the settlers from Gaza when Israel pulled out in 2005. Perhaps if you read something a bit less biased than the Huffington Post, you wouldn't appear to be such an idiot.

Its not a devastating loss, but the loss of bodies in a bankruptcy department these days is a loss, whether or not they take business with them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i08L09V0_sg

Zirinski lost a power struggle with Palmer for control of FR. He lost a lot of face and it is clear it was time for him to move on. The LyondelBasell BR is Palmer's all the way. Zirinski's book of business is not $30M, that is just bullocks. FR at CWT is hopping, we are talking up to 120 hour weeks for their associates.

- Insider

That is it for the whole attornment industry.

Tilt. Game Over.

As a union organizer, i have to say that the attornment industry needs to be decimated.

We need to start using lawyers in President Obama's plans to rebuild America's infrastructure. By mixing them into the cement.

A union-busting firm's junior associate was crowing about how he enjoyed "smokin' those pro se peasants".

I asked him how well he enjoyed having to cower behind metal detectors while he smoked his peasants.

Anyone saying Zirinsky is not a loss should be cockpunched. Northwest Airlines is one of his most recent deals.

He had a very big book of debtor side work. Debtor side means you write the plan - staffed with massive headcount, it is essentially a license to print money. Bae is a very talented lawyer, I'm not sure what his book is but he is a vital cog in make Zirinsky's machine operate. Yes they have other restructuring lawyers from Weil, but its never good to lose someone of Zirinsky's caliber. Big, big blow.

That he went to GT rather than a more prominent NY based firm is not surprising due to the conflicts that arise with debtor side practices. Most NY firms' client rosters are loaded with the creditors of his clients and potential clients.

Insider:

#30 Right on...

#38 RIGHT OOOOOOONNNNNNNNNN

#40..what you say is SOOOO not true, except that he is a talented attorney

Insider:

#30 Right on...

#38 RIGHT OOOOOOONNNNNNNNNN

#40..what you say is SOOOO not true, except that he is a talented attorney

Insider:

#30 Right on...

#38 RIGHT OOOOOOONNNNNNNNNN

#40..what you say is SOOOO not true, except that he is a talented attorney

#40 = john bae

That CWT associates still suffer from Stockholm syndrome is mind blowing to me. That they are still able to muster misguided defenders on sites like ATL is a testament to the efficacy of torture.

The loyalty you show is not mutual. If it is the best you could do, bully for taking the job and making a biglaw salary until you cost their worst partner a single haypenny, but for the love of God don't tell us that CWT's peanut filled deuce is a Snickers bar. Nobody believes you.

#40 = richard rosenbaum

#46

There is nothing wrong with people defending a statement (# 30 and 38), which happens to be correct. Yes, CWT does have a bad reputation, but that is changing. We have seen it, and unlike you, we are here. Things are changing for the better. Now, if you have nothing better to do, you can continue to beleive the exaggerated stories from sour, scorned and "entitled prima donnas" who think the deserve something they haven't worked for, who come on this site to trash talk.

There is drama everywhere, so please, spare me the BS.

And NO, I am NOT A PARTNER

46 - What is interesting about CWT bashers like you is that you are simply propogating a stereotype. Do you have any factual basis for those assertions? How exactly are you in the loop? The answer, of course, is you aren't. Basing your argument on reputation and not fact is a hallmark of desperate or bad lawyering, take your pick. If your entire defense is based on impeaching the witness, you have a pretty shitty defense.

CWT's bad reputation is not changing.

#50, of course, because if it did, people like you would have nothing to write about

By huge step down what do people mean - huge step down in the eyes of prestige-whore ATL readers? Ridiculous. Because it doesn't mean a "step down" salary wise, there are partners at GT that make millions(!!) more than partners at CWT and other V20 firms because compensation is not lockstep. Moreover, CWT is a sinking ship. You law students have no idea what you're talking about.

CWT has been the lowest ranked firm in associate satisfaction, continually, consistently and dramatically, for over a decade. It is much more likely that a few sour, scorened and "entitled prima donnas" and their exaggerated stories from their temporary stays are to blame, rather than the partners at the firm who have been there during the entirety of that period and the atmosphere created by those partners.

You're right.

28 - get informed! settlements? that is not correct.

when one starts a war and loses then you lose.

arabs started numerous wars v israel and lost every time thus losing land that incidentally belonged to jordan and egypt ( no such entity as palestinian) and i dont hear them requesting anything.

p.s. those so called refugee camps are better tehan how their own arab brothers treated them prior to israeli "takeover". and today it is still better than how they are treated else where!

also search youtube for the clip 'escape from hamas'

# 53 Obviously, you should know what I am talking about. You're probably one of them

What is the definition of TTT again??? My definition would be the major firms that announced "half-Skadden bonuses" and froze salaries first. I think the law students on this board need to figure out why they're wasting time bashing other firms....?

#s 41 and 52 -- Rosenbaum/Alvarez

Last I head CWT was not lockstep nor are a host of others. GT does offer many ways to get xtra $$$ -- just look at all the different schemes cited in GTTT's Wikipedia page.

#s 41 and 52 -- Rosenbaum/Alvarez

Last I head CWT was not lockstep nor are a host of others. GT does offer many ways to get xtra $$$ -- just look at all the different schemes cited in GTTT's Wikipedia page.

What is the definition of TTT again??? My definition would be the major firms that announced "half-Skadden bonuses" and froze salaries first. I think the law students on this board need to figure out why they're wasting time bashing other firms....?

If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.

- Hermann Hesse

55,

Given Cadwalader's horrendous attrition, almost every firm in new york has its share of ex Cadwalader associates. They all tell the same story - that it's a horrendous place to work and that they're really happy to have left. They can't believe how much better life is at the new firm (which speaks volumes, since being a lawyer just about anywhere isn't exactly a great life). Add in the fact that Cadwalader's own associates consistently rate it at the absolute bottom in associate satisfaction every single year and I'd say the reputation is well earned.

They have very good lawyers, and most the the associates are probably good people, but I've never heard anybody say anything good about the place.

54, very astute point. Leaving CWT is like "escape from Hamas".

49, wtf are you talking about? nobody on this chatroom is "lawyering." it's called "gossiping."

62 - this is true as well.

-54

61,

I never said CWT was 7th heaven. I am well aware of the reputation it has. However, I am also well aware that alot of those associates have left for a number of reasons, not necessarely because they hate the place. With that said, alot of associates left CWT after they got the money and the experience, delt with people they did not necessarily like (don't we all work with them at some point?) and left right after they were give HUGE bonuses. I do understand that some talended attorneys may have left because they were not treated right or given credit for their work. But then again, there are those who left, because as I said, are Prima Donnas. People who have nothing to do but complain about what they are not getting, whie not getting work done, and if they do, its garbage. I am not condoning the behavior of Partners, but don't we all work with coloful characters? I hate the fact that they demonize the Firm for the actions of a handful, not giving credit to the ones who are actually HUMAN (and much to your surprise, they do exist at CWT).

With that said, the Firm is changing, and whoever is telling you anything to the contrary is full of it. It is not perfect, but it is wayyyyyyyyyy better than what its USED to be. If you haven't worked at CWT and you don't have first hand knowledge about what goes on, I'd suggest the Firm trashing stops. Its useless, because at the end of the day, there is no one Firm is perfect.

I suggest the trashing continues. If it discourages a single law student from working their, it is a public service consistent with the highest ideals of the legal profession.

39 -

An attornment is either a transfer of property or the agreement of a tenant to acknowledge the purchaser of an estate as his landlord. God only knows what the "attornment industry" is.

65's post is the most sincere and sincerely retarded thing I have ever read on ATL. Its like watching Trig Palin performing the final monologue in a Wasilla Elementary production of Rocky IV.

"If I can change, and CWT can change, everybody can change!"

*golf clap*

Bravo! Who said satire was dead?

I hope 65's writing is so bad because he's angry...

This is a big loss for CWT. I worked at Weil, and the loss of the other group to CWT was no real loss. Trust me, Weil was a lot more unhappy when Zirinsky left.

61--

What other information is a lateral candidate or law student supposed to go on? "Hey, work here at CWT for a few years and see if you like it." Bullshit. CWT has been working long and hard to acquire the reputation it currently enjoys with respect to associate morale, attrition and the like.

Take for instance all of the fluctuation you see in most surveys like Vault, American Lawyer (not ascertainable metrics like PPP, RPL, etc.) but reputation, etc. In some instances, those qualitative rankings vary widely year over year. One year a firm will rank 58, the next 71 and vice-versa. Isn't it surprising, with such changes taking place in qualitative rankings, that CWT consistently fairs so poorly in rankings dealing with associate satisfaction, morale, etc.? If it's the only offer you have, you should take it. If you've already accepted an offer, try to make the most of it. But, please stop trying to convince others to drink the Kool-Aid.

Finally, the fact that there is an argument over the circumstances under which an outstanding bankruptcy lawyer and his service partner left CWT says much about what it must have been like to work in that group while Zirinsky and Bae were still there. I am not saying who is right and wrong in that power struggle. I am just saying that it is additional evidence of a highly toxic culture.

Face it: on the issue of CWT being the ninth circle of BigLaw shops, the evidence is overwhelming. Can it improve? Sure. I cannot see how it can get any worse.

Better that CWT is a sweatshop than not a shop at all. Face it, half the law students who post on ATL would give their left nut to work at CWT because the truth is soon they will be unemployed, clerks at superior court (those that are lucky), contract attorneys or out of the law altogether. To those students I say laugh it up while you can, soon the bell will toll for you.

5--

Part of what Marty and that guy over at Cravath do is keep their clients out of bankruptcy.

72--

I see the inherent power of your "something is better than nothing" argument. However, what about those for whom that is a false choice? It's fantastic that CWT will have its pick of the litter among the unemployed, but I am not sure what that proves.

One final point and picking up on the allusion in your message: If they joined CWT, the bell would still be tolling, only it would be slightly further off in time and slightly farther off in distance.

"Cadwalader - it's better than being unemployed or a contract attorney!" They should have that printed up for recruiting.

Your all just jealous of the successes that the CWT parntersship has had. Your not capable of developing a book big enough to land a partnership slot at CWT and you're little sad internet jealousy is showing. Those of us here know that BZ was bringing nothing of value to our table and we're happy to see him go. GT deservers him.

75, I don't know about your partnership stats but your '05 female associates are whores.

Unless the CMBS/Real Property/Finance world turns around soon, it's curtains for CWT. They were churning and burning so much of that shit and making boatloads of money. CWT was so busy printing money that they still have unfinished docs from deals that closed 2 years ago.

It's amazing what a clusterfuck 2008 was.

I am a CWT alumni. I worked for a good group while I was there, and got great experience as a real estate attorney. However, the problem with the firm (I worked there during operation "right ship" let by Bob Link) is that the firm has no soul. The only thing that keeps people there is the money.

@75, what's up with your 3rd World level grammar and spelling? Please brush up on the conjunctions.

@78 i agree with you on the soulless nature of CWT. other firms have larger-than-life partners that run the ship and give it flavor (most are assholes, but leaders nonetheless). i have to admit that CWT's real estate department's paras were more knowledgeable than the associates (i am NOT trying to be funny or insulting). that was problematic at times.

75 - I've never questioned the skill of CWT's partners and associates. I think everyone reconizes that there are a lot of exceptional lawyers there. All I'm saying is that it's reputation as a bad place to work is well earned and worth taking note of.

I would challenge anyone out there to show me a single instance where a partner left their V20 firm and went to Paul Hastings to overwhelming success.

PH is the firm where service partners and specialists with overblown ego's go to watch their careers die.

75's post was so bad it gave me cancer. WTF, mate?

48 that's such crock I'm here too. What planet are you living on???

77-

Rob? I know that's you. Stop using the expression "clusterfuck" all the time.

Why all the hate for Paul Hastings? Are lawyers at firms Vault 31-100 jealous?

85, fuck you, I can us "clusterfuck" whenever I fucking want. One more fucking word about it and I will cut your fucking balls off and shove them up your ass so that the next time you take a shit you'll shit all over your balls.

85 - I think you hit a nerve, somebody sounds pissed.

this was an ego thing- zirinsky is 60 plus and cruising towards retirment- ppp is down substantially at cwt * and most law firms* and he probably got a guarantee that will carry him to retirement'

Weil is running the fr group so this probabky makes perfect sense for zirinske (and bae needs to follow his savu=ior)

We r all economic animals so this is a win win for all parties- dont think theres much more to it