Economic Downturn Continues to Hammer Law Schools
Karen Sloan over at the National Law Journal has an interesting report on how the economic crisis continues to cause pain to the nation’s law schools:
Instead of an expected 1% budget increase, the dean of the Temple University James E. Beasley School of Law learned that she would need to cut about 2% of the budget for the current academic year. The reductions were necessary because the Pennsylvania government — facing a major budget shortfall — was preparing to cut funding to the university by more than 4%.
Great. Just when the declining legal market might suggest (ahem) a reduction in law school tuition costs, budget shortfalls make it almost certain that legal education will remain ridiculously expensive.
And if public schools are feeling the pinch, you best believe that private schools are crying tears of poverty all over your tuition check for this semester. More after the jump.
The NLJ reports that the crisis might actually be worse for private law schools:
Those schools generally rely more heavily than their public counterparts on income from endowments to pay for operations, and the nose-diving financial markets have hit endowments hard. For example, Harvard University’s $36.9 billion endowment has fallen 22% since the summer, while Yale University’s plunged 25% to $17 billion during that time.University of Chicago Law School Dean Saul Levmore said reliance on funding from endowments varies, but generally makes up a quarter to a half of the operating budget at private schools. Considering that many endowments have lost between 20% and 40% of their value, schools will likely need to make cuts, he said.
The worse it gets, the more difficult it will be for middle class and poor students to attend premier law schools:
Levmore, the University of Chicago law dean, said one major unanswered question is whether budget cuts will lead to a smaller pool of financial aid for law students.That issue looms largest for private schools, which use attractive financial aid packages to woo students. Financial aid is the fastest growing expense for law schools, Levmore said, and a reduction at one school could set off something of a chain reaction among peer institutions. The University of Chicago Law School has not made any determination about its financial aid awards for the next year, Levmore said.
I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again: I feel really bad for the class of 2011. But the class of 2012 is just not paying attention.
Law schools dealing with budget cuts [National Law Journal]




Comments
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i guess they won't be serving LOBSTER at any school functions!!!!
Figgiti FIRST!
Captain FIRST!
Oh. the Economy!!
Be prepared: The inauguration riots will make Katrina look like a walk in the park. Can we really relocate a population equal to half of Los Angeles and expect there to be no problems? Stock up on water, food, if you live in the D.C. area.
Going to law school hhas always been a losing proposition if you don't get into the T14 -- now it's even more so.
I said "GET A JOB, SPARKLING WIGGLE!!!"
I will work extra hard for a portion of Kash's Ass Lobster.
You people that post in these forums are so stupid. Are you really lawyers?
If so then no wonder your industry is collapsing.
8: And you are....?
6 - Dude, lay off. The video's funny, but no one wants to take it any further.
Will Cahill still recruit at law schools?
Law professors are among the most disgusting human beings on the planet, and so far as I can tell, nothing can come between a law school dean and the idea that raising tuition is a fantastic idea. These shitards should be chased by mobs in the streets.
Man, Elie. Looking through the front page, it definitely seems like the honeymoon is over. If the severe drop in comments is a reflection of decreased traffic, I think your detractors have finally followed through on their threats to stop reading this blog. I probably would too, but for my desire to keep up on how firms are responding to the recession.
what kind of interest rates are TTT's getting for loans these days? One would have to be an idiot, or an idealist with an amazing passion for the law, to borrow money to go to any LS but a top-3 right now.
10 -- Don't call me dude. Call me Alowishus Devadander Abercrombie.
13 = Angry GULCer with no job prospects.
13 - so you think this is a story that is unworthy of publication or are your just reflexively responding in a negative way because that's in vogue on this blog these days?
And yes, I'm both Elie and Elie's mom.
You people that post in these forums are so stupid. Are you really lawyers?
If so then no wonder your industry is collapsing.
Oh Elie, your posts are as smooth as a landing in the Hudson. You continue to bring joy to my life on a daily basis :)
p.s. Try spending less on Popeye's and more on grammar lessons.
15 - Please learn how to spell Aloysius.
no one is listening today, friday, layoffs coming, fact, jobs needed.........
Law school deans blame the ABA for their own failures - Wash U dean in this article says that ABA should allow even MORE TTTT's to be accredited.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/87744
What is Les Claypool up to these days, anyhow?
2011 and 2012 are a loooong way away. Despite Obama's socialism, we should be in much better shape by then.
So I kissed him upside the cranium with this aluminum baseball bat
My Name is Mud
The legal field will never collapse! As long as there are limp-wristed linguini-spined liberals running the country they'll be plenty of people to sue! Of couse, none of the rest of us will have jobs...but HEY! As long as I can sit in my cardboard box in the alley knowing that The One is sticking it to the greedy oil companies - I'll have some Sterno and a smile! Thanks!
I love it when people say "T-14" - when GULC drops out of the top 20 this spring, will we have to say T-22?
Get serious.
-GW 1L
I wish I was an Ass Lobster.
Jdunderground>ATL
TITCR
What is TTT?
What is TTT?
What is TTT?
What is TTT?
What is TTT?
What is TTT?
30-35 (and counting): A Triple Tasty Thermidor lobster.
What is TTT?
What is TTT?
36 Thanks
36 Thanks
Has anyone heard of the expression "TTT"? Does anyone know what it means?
Also, has anyone noticed that when you post a comment it doesn't appear right away? Should I keep hitting submit?
sure 41,
TTT = commentor 30-35 and 37-38
your pal,
42
don't worry: chances are, if you don't know what TTT means, then your law school is there, and you should therefore be much more concerned with the dearth of employment opportunities you're going to face upon graduation than with some pointless internet abbreviation :]
Is McGeorge a T10 school? My professor said it was a great school. I need to know.
Is McGeorge a T10 school? My professor said it was a great school. I need to know.
41
Why does everyone keep talking about what guys at their high school used to do? I mean, if it was not a big deal then why are they still talking about it?
It means Top Tier Toilet - reserved for shitty law schools
It means Top Tier Toilet - reserved for shitty law schools
Is that a picture of Al Gore?
"when GULC drops out of the top 20 this spring, will we have to say T-22?"
Obviously not, then it gets cut down to T-13.
I don't agree that you're a worthless lawyer if you don't attend a T14 (I'm living proof--a Biglaw attorney who went to a Tier 4 school). But, there ARE too many law schools graduating too many students. The false dream of a high income to pay back the outrageous loans lures students in, when the reality is that other than the few who make it to Biglaw, most attorneys will make a nice average salary that's suddenly a lot smaller after $1000/month and up loan payments. Those considering going to law school right now (or any time, really) need to take a really hard, honest look at themselves, and evaluate whether they're likely to come out of school with a job that will make the loans worth it.
Even with increased tuition, Temple students don't pay shit. What is it now? $14k. Best value in country... well if you don't mind working in Philly after graduation. Otherwise it's the best way to waste $14k a year.
Angry GW posters have to be the most pathetic of all God's creatures.
Just like the big law industry has seen massive cuts, the law professor industry will too. UGA has 42 full-time law faculty (not counting legal research and clinical faculty) and sends me donation requests once a week. No freaking way!
why not just be honest about what TTT gets you? if you are in the top 10% of your class, you have a great shot of getting a big law gig.
Anyone remotely capable at a TTT transfers anyway. And if you have excellent grades at a TTT and DON'T transfer, you deserve the $35K a year at a local insurance firm.
It's really annoying how many people who went (or claim to have gone) to top law schools think they are so much better than their peers who went to lower ranked law schools. Here's a clue: if you think you are better than people who went to a lower ranked school than you did, you are almost certainly not.
55-You're right.
The bar pass rates are similar for alot of tier 2 schools as at is for tier 1! Except for the bottom 10% of the class I think it is identical!
But a median student at tier 1 gets you a biglaw gig and median student and tier 2 gets you a shitty firm on Court Street. Both candidates are ready to practice. Both are smart. But look at the difference.
Forget about Cooley and Touro. These place 50% of the class might fail the bar the first time.
I didn't transfer, because I was...HAPPY at my lower ranked school and had a good financial aid package. The blind stubborness of those who think there's some black and white difference between Tier 1 and everyone else is mind-numbing. Yes, you have to end up ranked higher at a lower school to score the Biglaw job. But that's not because the students are actually any less capable, it's because law firms make sweeiping generalizations about the abilities of applicants based on where they went to school. This is NOT to say that a given Harvard student isn't better qualified that a given student at my Tier 4, but we're all a little ignorant if we can't admit that idiots and savants alike come out of EVERY law schoo.
And please excuse my typos.
-60
56 doesn't know what s/he is talking about. By the time top students at TTT schools are in a position to transfer they typically have great scholarships, know they will graduate with little debt, have made law review, have a good reputation at their school, and already have a good sense that they will snag big law positions. That's not a bad position to be in.
62 is exactly right. I'm always a little shocked to hear common sense come out of a lawyer. But it's a nice change.
Wait, passing the bar means you're ready to practice and smart? Since when?
People from top schools (generally) don't think they're better, but they're more predictably good lawyers, thus the better job prospects. Which is why its a better investment than betting on law school grades (which are such an accurate description of academic ability) being in the top 10%.
Tier 4 charges the same for a 2.6 as for a 4.0...
When I first started law school, I posted some on the Law School Discussion Forum. I quit because it was overrun by T10 students who thought everyone else should just die. I started a thread once merely lamenting that I was not enjoying the write-on packet for Law Review. That started a string of comments so imflammatory ("You're obviously a terrible lazy person and I hope no one ever hires you as a lawyer.") that an attorney posted and said that he had printed out the thread to show his office what kind of people were coming into the profession, and the Forum ended up removing the whole thread. So it is unfair to say that all students from top schools have a superiority complex: It's actually just the ones who comment on boards and blogs.
Even I was on law review at a TTT I'd transfer if possible into a T14. You can always have it on your resume that you were invited to join law review. At the end of the day, if you're applying for work in a major city, employers care where you want to school and make certain judgments about schools, regardless of whether the student had a good reputation at their TTT.
64: An LSAT scores is generally what separates a student at top school from a TTT school. So what you are really saying is that an LSAT score (a single test mind you) is a better predictor than class rank based on two semesters of law school grades. I don't know if that's right, but I just wanted to make clear what you were actually saying.
The problem is the over-supply of lawyers. It's just too competitive right now and everyone is suffering because of it. Those who went to better law schools resent having to compete with those who attended less prestigious schools. What you get as a result is animosity between the two classes as manifested in this blog daily. The real culprits are the law professors who make money off of the industry while it collapses. Their incentive is to grow the legal education machine when in fact it should be contracting. The ABA needs to remove accreditation from 25 law schools today as a profession-saving measure. And it should also require law schools to cut down their class sizes by 50%. It's the only way to bring back dignity, balance, and sustainability to this profession.
68: that is silly. if there is no market demand for certain schools, than those schools will go under.
68 -
Do you think that dictating a course of action that will never be followed makes you sound like you know something?
Some will be certainly shocked to see the results of the 2008 BARm where a Tier 3 school, New York Law School had a higher passage rate than 3 higher tiered schools in NY, Cardozo, Brooklyn, and St. Johns! All of this is available at http://www.outlines.com/
I don't necessarily agree with this point of view, but the counter-argument would be that the supply for a lot of the lower-ranked law schools without stellar job prospects is made up of a lot of idiots right of college who take no time to research the realities of the profession and still get easy access to finance. Even as private loans rapidly dry up for this group, government-subsidized loans will keep the system working, making draconian measures from the ABA the only way to constrict the supply. While the pool of legal work is shrinking, the pool of general employers who are willing to gamble on a neo-freudian poetry major is much smaller in this economy, making law schools seem like a better bet for a lot of applicants. Especially as private finance dries up, it will be interesting to see if we get a tuition split between schools with lower-paying job prospects and the vaunted "t-#"
I don't necessarily agree with this point of view, but the counter-argument would be that the supply for a lot of the lower-ranked law schools without stellar job prospects is made up of a lot of idiots right of college who take no time to research the realities of the profession and still get easy access to finance. Even as private loans rapidly dry up for this group, government-subsidized loans will keep the system working, making draconian measures from the ABA the only way to constrict the supply. While the pool of legal work is shrinking, the pool of general employers who are willing to gamble on a neo-freudian poetry major is much smaller in this economy, making law schools seem like a better bet for a lot of applicants. Especially as private finance dries up, it will be interesting to see if we get a tuition split between schools with lower-paying job prospects and the vaunted "t-#"
Given a golden opportunity and unable to see it. Open your eyes! already. Sink the ship before it sinks you. Damn. Wake up! How did the large firms begin? A few lowly associates breaking away from rules and regulations not supportive of their goals. Where's the courage today? Who are those lowly associates today? Take the years of experienced staff with you and make it happen. What large firm can operate without you? Eliminate the PPP profits and start afresh, put them out of business! Show 'em who's boss and kick 'em to the curb already.
-An unlaid off 25+ year staff member willing to see it happen during this scam powerless crisis and hoping to see a boomerang effect.
68-It won't happen. The scam of all scams is that the ABA gets money from the schools it accredits. So its financial incentive is to what? Yes, accredit as many schools as possible.
All these schools are going to struggle for at least 2 enrollement classes to come, read the discussion on http://www.outlines.com/
When will the salary freezes and disappearing bonuses hit the law schools? Maybe they should try a little belt tightening before jacking up already obscene tution for the chance to go $100k+ into debt and graduate into an oversaturated non-existent job market.
There are right now too many lawyers in the country. Many new graduates cannot find jobs. There are also too many mediocre and bad lawyers.