We got a report last night that Latham & Watkins was losing two more IP partners to Quinn Emanuel. We’ve been able to confirm with sources at Quinn that the firm has in fact added Sean Pak and Dave Nelson. Both partners were patent litigators with Latham.
Our sources at Latham are worried that this is even more bad news for the firm:
This is on top of the NY IP partners all leaving last year. Expect several associates to follow. Right now LW has no IP practice in NY, and soon to have no substantial IP practice in Chicago. Rats leaving the sinking ship?
But is the Latham ship sinking? One tipster has no special information, but is worried nonetheless:
Rumors are flying within the firm that we’re going to announce layoffs soon…. I have no clue if the rumors are true but would love to hear everyone’s commentary.
After the jump, we get into some of the flying rumors.
We are getting new “Latham stealth layoff” tips almost every day. This report is a good example of what we continue to hear:
Stealth layoffs are ongoing — some were done as recently as late last week. I have overheard from numerous people that partners are just hoping the press on this will get buried and that the huge PR hit will get blown over.
Another tipster reports:
As yet, we have had NO formal internal discussions about what has happened (unlike with the salary freeze — at that time we had an immediate all hands meeting in every office — and in my opinion, the firm handled the roll-out of the freeze quite well). No one knows how many people were affected.
But maybe Latham associates are just experiencing the aftershocks of the firm’s performance review process. When we reported on stealth layoffs at Latham two weeks ago, the firm said:
Consistent with our standard practice at the end of each year, we have completed our associate review process…. Our decisions relating to associate departures were performance related and part of our usual year-end process, not part of an economic layoff.
Could it be that Latham is still getting around to informing associates about decisions that have already been made? Or is Latham undergoing a whole new round of layoffs?
If you have more information about the happenings at Latham, send it in to tips.
I don’t work at Latham, but my friends who do seem to think it is a great place.
Although this news is not the best, the rumors about potential layoffs are meaningless. In this economy, and with this website, I would imagine that there are rumors of layoffs at every law firm. Whether or not they mean anything is yet to be told.
Interestingly, the last post about the layoffs at Latham mentioned specific layoffs. But, the post failed to mention specific numbers. Where MoFo layed off 50 associates, we are left with no idea about how many Lathamites were fired. Was it 10 or 100- there is a big difference. To the contrary, the posts seem to indicate that of all those fired, only one was willing to discuss his/her “performance,” and he/she billed 1200 hours last year.
But hey, let’s just keep talking about rumors and creating more unnecessary hysteria. It’s more fun than reality.
IP partners at my high school used to leave for Quinn Emanuel every now and then. It was no big deal.
1 – If everything at Latham is so great, then why did they institute a salary freeze?
I don’t work at Latham, but it is one of the strongest firms in the country. If they’re in “serious, serious trouble” then everyone not in a bankruptcy practice better start planing to live on food stamps. Good grief. Let’s try to remain at least remotely attached to reality.
Well, I don’t work at Latham, but am an administrator at another firm.
I can tell you that their overhead in comparison to other firms must be incredible.
We’ve consistently lost staff to them when they offer nearly double the local industry rate for many positions. While this allows them to cherry pick experienced people from other firms, now that the well has run dry, how long will it be until it must trim the rolls?
At least Latham isn’t HofsTTTra.
- St. John’s 2L Stud
Latham is the only truly “top” firm to have frozen salaries. Why would they have done that if not in trouble?
6 – By your logic Lehman Brothers should still be standing. Just because a firm was strong at one point doesn’t mean it is now. I don’t know what situation Latham finds itself in, but simply saying it’s a great firm and can’t be in trouble is foolish. Giants are falling right now.
1: The rumor I’ve heard from most friends is a 10% associate cut. It sounds like no one really knows, but that’s the best guess.
“Why would they have done that if not in trouble?”
Same reason dogs licks their b*lls. Because they can.
5- The issue everywhere is how many associates and staff get thrown overboard to keep the ship afloat. We’re beyond the end of structured finance, the trimming of fat from the good times and into real (and painful) changes in the way firms do business. I see more firms going to the Big Law Bermuda Triangle. (trying to keep my metaphors unmixed)
Comment 9 is about the comment by 5 not 6. Also, most companies are not going through bankruptcy right now. So bankruptcy work isn’t as flush as it might be. Companies are shedding weight and building surplus to weather things out. Many are hoping that the stimulus will get things going again.
Law firms should have sales like the department stores. You have no work because clients can’t afford you so have a sale
25% off selected legal work
***expires when the recession is over
This is proof that even IP lit is sinking. What are safe practice areas?
Oh boy
Abandon ship!!!!!
Women and children first!
Quinn also just hired the co-head of O’Melveny’s white collar practice group, as well as a patent litigator from Howrey.
I bet those $3.3 million PPP look pretty goddamned sexy to partners with portable books right about now.
Got it wrong 17, it’s PPP first.
Elie: we really need a comment from L&W regarding layoffs. It’s bullshit to call these performance based. What are the numbers? Which years are getting the axe? Are they getting severance packages?
It’s clear that there have been substantial layoffs at Latham, and they need to bring some transparency to this process.
If associate salaries weren’t so high, firms wouldn’t need to lay as many folks off…the whole system is broken. Maybe now is the time to fix it. First year associates simply aren’t worth $160K+… ever…
I have a ton of friends at Latham, and all of them are very very scared of losing their jobs. They have absolutely no work coming in. *Latham is in serious serious trouble.*
Partner at a big firm here. One that always strikes me is how every time a partner switches firms the legal press always says the new firm “snagged” the partner or “lured away” the partner. Half the time, in my expereince, when I actually know the story the partner who left was asked to leave for some reason or just wasn’t highly valued. Why does everybody always assume that when a partner switches firms it’s a “catch” for the new firm and a bad thing for the old firm?
I’m totally down-voting Latham in the Vault rankings this year .
Can someone explain to me why the mere mention of this firm inspires such vitriol and anger among those who post on this website?
20 – It’s pretty clear that ATL has been repeatedly asking Latham for comment. But the firm is stonewalling them.
I don’t work at Latham, but let me tell you all about it anyway.
27 – Are you saying that, internally, Latham IS admitting to layoffs?
Because their response to ATL basically has been, “these are not layoffs, they are performance based dismissals.”
I work at Latham and there is talk of impending layoffs. Management has only confirmed that they’re “on the table” and that discussions are ongoing but the general feeling is that they’re happening, and that this will be done sooner rather than later.
why is ATL getting tips they aren’t posting?
how many tips before something gets posted?
why still no mention of the most recent round stealth layoffs at o’melveny and myers??? (i know- it’s hard to imagine who is left!!!)
26-First big firm to “freeze” salalries.
Do Latham 3Ls need to be scrabbling for a back-up plan or will the economy have bounced back by time we can be fired?
- Nervous T14 3L, who mistakenly chose their fun culture over bottom line stability.
30 – No they are denying responding to ATL period. A lot of people were upset that the firm spokesperson said that the performance based firings were business as usual and unrelated to the economy.
Response to 24 — This is obviously not always the case and increasingly untrue. I sit on the lateral recruiting committee of a BIGLAW firm. We are actively reaching out to laterals at firms that we know cannot compensate them what they are worth.
I suspect the partners who left Orrick and Howrey to go to Quinn were not anticipated to be dilutive of Quinn’s PPP. Expect a lot more of this.
“Right now LW has no IP practice in NY, and soon to have no substantial IP practice in Chicago.”
What about LW’s IP practice in SF? Sean Pak came up from LA to develop/expand their Bay Area IP practice, and now he’s leaving for Quinn.
Wow, I can’t believe I actually chose Latham over Weil just 4 months ago.
Latham 3Ls should flee to Mexico and hope Sallie Mae can’t find them.
-
32: what more do you know about OMM layoffs?
34
Start looking for clerkships and go to another firm afterwords. This will hurt Latham for years to come, both because the economy will be slow and their reputation will be taTTTered.
21–clearly you didn’t read the previous post, linking to an article explaining that laying off associates doesn’t really do jack money wise and is purely cosmetic. Rather, the real cost-saving is in “laying off” deadwoof partners and off counsel who don’t do shit. Lets see, get rid of one associate, who we bill out at 600k a year and at most pay ut 250k to, or get rid of a partner costing us 1.5 million plus.
Some other post on here had it right. In tough times, its all about preserving the partnership, damn any common sense from a managerial perspective.
A non-LWer, I know of at least one case of a stealth layoff at Latham first hand, and have heard that is far from an isolated case. It’s happening.
43: No Shit
http://abovethelaw.com/2009/01/stealth_layoff_open_thread_lat.php
And this makes Latham different from every other firm how????
32, yes, please elaborate. NYC? LA? OC?
I am a 2L going to Latham, but question to all posters: Are people at Cravath/Skadden/S&C/Cleary busy? I have heard anecdotally that most associates all over have no work. When I was talking to associates at one of the above firms I spoke to a first year who had not had any work at all since she started (approximately 2 months). The point being – if nobody has work, isn’t every firm going to have to take these kind of measures? Again – i’m ignorant and asking for a real answer.
I am a 2L going to Latham, but question to all posters: Are people at Cravath/Skadden/S&C/Cleary busy? I have heard anecdotally that most associates all over have no work. When I was talking to associates at one of the above firms I spoke to a first year who had not had any work at all since she started (approximately 2 months). The point being – if nobody has work, isn’t every firm going to have to take these kind of measures? Again – i’m ignorant and asking for a real answer.
21–clearly you didn’t read the previous post, linking to an article explaining that laying off associates doesn’t really do jack money wise and is purely cosmetic. Rather, the real cost-saving is in “laying off” deadwoof partners and off counsel who don’t do shit. Lets see, get rid of one associate, who we bill out at 600k a year and at most pay ut 250k to, or get rid of a partner costing us 1.5 million plus.
Some other post on here had it right. In tough times, its all about preserving the partnership, damn any common sense from a managerial perspective.
I am a 2L going to Latham, but question to all posters: Are people at Cravath/Skadden/S&C/Cleary busy? I have heard anecdotally that most associates all over have no work. When I was talking to associates at one of the above firms I spoke to a first year who had not had any work at all since she started (approximately 2 months). The point being – if nobody has work, isn’t every firm going to have to take these kind of measures? Again – i’m ignorant and asking for a real answer.
24: “First year associates simply aren’t worth $160K+… ever…”
Agreed. They’re worth more. Especially since firms are pimping out their services for the equivalent of $500,000+/year.
This is the same old “pro athletes aren’t worth what they’re paid” routine. We still buy tickets. So what should we do, take the money from the people actually doing the heavy lifting (athletes: associates) and give it to the people even more overpaid in terms of what they do (owners: partners).
If firms really think associates are overpaid, they should consider cutting billing rates.
I feel like an ass for picking Latham over DPW. Does DPW hire 3Ls? I wonder if they’ll still want to hire me next year.
Know why people are leaving NY? Because of shit like this:
“A New Yorker would have to make $123,322 a year to have the same standard of living as someone making $50,000 in Houston.”
Damn it — why am I doing the same work in NYC as in other offices around the country, but getting paid the same? It sucks!
I hear what you’re saying, 53, but who the hell wants to live in Houston? You couldn’t pay me enough to live in that shithole.
Why does everybody always assume that when a partner switches firms it’s a “catch” for the new firm and a bad thing for the old firm?
__________________________________________
I don’t think that’s always true, but when you have substantial exodus of partners from one practice area in a rather brief period of time, it’s hard to believe that it was the firm’s choice for all of them to leave, especially not if the partner is taking a good-sized book with them.
Wasn’t David Nelson effectively in charge of IP lit at Latham’s Chicago office? Is he staying in Chicago?
From what I could tell, almost all of the IP lit associates in Latham’s Chicago office a few years ago were Fed Circuit clerks. Basically, the type of people who could move around pretty easily between firms. Are the associates moving with Nelson, going somewhere else, or staying put?
Wasn’t David Nelson effectively in charge of IP lit at Latham’s Chicago office? Is he staying in Chicago?
From what I could tell, almost all of the IP lit associates in Latham’s Chicago office a few years ago were Fed Circuit clerks. Basically, the type of people who could move around pretty easily between firms. Are the associates moving with Nelson, going somewhere else, or staying put?
the lawyer suggests a $400m revenue shortfall for 2008 v 2007
that cant be good
http://www.thelawyer.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=136607&d=415&h=417&f=416
23
You may be right generally, but not likely here.
Quinn: Huge profits
LW: Salary freeze, tough rumors.
An IP partner, which is the most lucrative practice goes from LW to Quinn.
Is it more likely LW let go a partner in the most profitable area and he was picked up by a flourishing Quinn? Or is it more likely Quinn pointed out he would better compensated for his book of business there instead of LW.
I don’t know, but I have a good guess here.
Answer to 26: People hate Latham because its the only v10 firm that markets itself with a social component, i.e., to work there you have to be smart and also possess somewhat normal social skills for a lawyer. This irritates a lot of people who a) don’t make the social skills cut during interviewing or b) think people at Latham believe they’re better than people at other v10 firms. Thus, anytime there’s bad news about Latham attorneys, the self-proclaimed “social” v10 firm, people rejoice in their misery.
Hi people, first year associate in Big Law here (also have my MBA for what thats worth)..its safe to say we are all living through the end of the big law business model.
My argument premise is simple. The NYC market sets the tone in compensation and by every other major metric. The new reality is that Sept. 15 ,2008 marked the beginning of the end.
Why? Becuase the global economic shockwave that was set off cannot be undone as quickly as it occured.
Why does this matter?
(1) Firm Clients specifically in NYC where the financial institutions that have been hit
(2) These firms and the cash rich lifestyles feed lawyers and many other industries
(3) The above does not exist anymore…bank nationalization whether we call it that or not has already occured.
(4) Does anyone think the financial institutions still standing will ever pay the fees that where status quo anti? (seriously)
(5) Given the above, Big law’s current leveraged business model can only continue to exist with massive firings (already begun) and I thinks it only a matter of time until downward pressure of associate wages becomes a reality given the glut of lawyers in the market
(6) Thats it, time to stock up on guns and ammo becuause this may get really ugly dont believe me? NYC has already layed off 1,000 cops
Latham 2L–no, people aren’t busy at those firms, but they’re not going to be laid off, either.
2:38 wrote: “Thats it, time to stock up on guns and ammo becuause this may get really ugly dont believe me? NYC has already layed off 1,000 cops.”
I live in Manhattan, and I’m scared. Will people just bust down the door of my condo and start grabbing stuff?
Latham 2L, here.
So 63 – explain to me how those other firms will maintain PPP without cutting lawyers/staff and pay freezes? It just seems like something’s gotta give for everybody. Maybe I’m missing something…feel free to tell me what it is
63: lol, keep telling yourself that. Latham’s not looking good, but all of us at other places better watch our backs.
Latham 2L: I think Cleary has stayed relatively busy. Down compared to 2 years ago, but seems better than last year.
somebody please shoot #61/62, for fuck’s sake.
at least 62. how would a 2L know what layoffs are occurring at these firms. just STFU
Latham 2L: It’s true that many firms are slow right now, but the question is which firms can weather the storm?
Some firms hired way too many associates and opened way too many offices. And, worse yet, took on significant debt to finance their expansions. So with the slowdown in business those firms are now having trouble paying their overhead, and some are fighting off nervous creditors.
Other firms were more prudent, didn’t expand quite so much or take on debt, and they’ll probably make it through the downturn intact.
64 – It’s pretty simple. Your evidence, as you concede, is anecdotal. Clearly it’s not representative.
But I remember sitting in a partner’s office at Latham for a callback about a year ago talking about how the really big BigLaw firms, circa 2000 lawyers, were both immune to economic downturns and gaining strength by the day while the smaller BigLaw firms, circa 800 lawyers, would all be killed or acquired in the next decade or so.
Maybe that’s why Latham is in the crapper. It could’ve just been typical interview BS or maybe the partners at Latham are morons.
any advice for a 3L with an offer from a firm that is seemingly unstable? Keep in mind, it’s way too late to get a clerkship.
“third world” country law firm associate here. We may need a few lawyers here as our economy is still running… pay is not great (compared to NYC standards) but allows to to live like a king (compared to NYC standards). send your resumes!
72, what country?
I agree that ATL is failing to post important tips – like the fact that Orrick yesterday announced it was delaying its bonus payments by two weeks. Orrick previously promised associates to pay on February 13, but is now saying “sometime during the week of February 24″ which probably means the 27th payday. Why the delay? This, with lots of stealth layoffs continuing in Orrick’s offices, including in litigation, has associates very worried. And add to all this that the firm is changing (downgrading) the entire salary structure in June … oh boy.
OMM has been awfully quiet. They received bad press with stealth layoffs last year, and things have only gotten much worse. What’s going on with OMM?
Nelson leaving is huge!!!!
Elie, can we have a California roundup edition? It seems like everybody’s doing so poorly. Heller (gone), Mofo and Orrick (massive layoffs), Latham (obviously), OMM (layoffs)
What the hell is going on over there? It seems like, of the big native firms, only Gibson is doing well.
77:
Quinn Emanuel much?
Quinn is doing well, but 300 or so attorneys isn’t really “big.”
I don’t understand the binary relationship many commenters here set up between “layoffs” and “performance cuts.” They’re synonymous. It’s not as if firms pick people’s names out of a hat when they lay folks off. They take the lowest performers (in billables, work quality, personality, whatever) and cut them. The bar for performance rises and falls with the economic tides.
I can understand how upsetting it must feel to be laid off, and to hear the performance-based reasons the firm has for it. But really, would it feel any better to be told “you’ve been laid off because your number came up in a random drawing”? Would you believe that, anyway?
I work at Paul Hastings and if Latham made me an offer I would be gone. An informal poll of my lunch buddies reveals that a perfect six for six would do the same.
Regardless of whether the firm froze salaries or not it is still one of the most prestigious firms in the country.
Save perhaps Gibson, there is no other California-based firm worth working for.
Latham is known for having a frat boy culture. Big surprise they’re calling the layoffs performance related? Third prize, you’re fired.
80 – Latham has said that they only cut underachievers as part of their normal performance review. They also stated that they have not felt the effects of the economy, and this round of layoffs is completely unrelated to economic difficulties. For a firm that was known for culture, they were very quick to sell out their associates.
What are the chances that they will start rescinding 3L offers?
Latham’s fratasticness > Skaddens Fratdouchiness
SWass cLobster
Count a third Howrey departure–former antitrust chair John Briggs to Axinn Veltrop.
Former LW here. I’m not glad to see layoffs at my old firm and am worried about my friends, but I am glad to see evidence that the big firm model is collapsing. It was/is a shitty business model that made people’s lives worse without contributing anything to the market. I hope for everyone to land on their feet, but I also hope for a significant reshuffling of the entire system.
Count a third Howrey departure–former antitrust chair John Briggs to Axinn Veltrop.
I am offended. Please improve mediocre posts.
Latham NY’s IP department got hit with a succession of losses in the last 2 years. First Robert Gunther moved to WilmerHale months before John Kirby retired in 2007. Then in 2007 John Blank left for Kaye Scholer.
As far as I know, Terrence Connolly is the only dedicated IP partner left in the office. The associates were still swamped with work, but most of it was farmed out work from the west coast offices. They’ve supposedly been looking to bring in partners into the practice, but obviously they’re losing partners across the firm instead…
The ship be sinking…
Typo: Blank left in 2008
-90
Latham let go of about 25 associates in NY last week. I can count specific names on this one. As for other offices, I’ve heard in the 15-20 range in LA and Chicago. Call these layoffs or performance based or whatever, but that’s where we stand right now.
As for the future, the general belief is that we’re in for another round of cuts within a few months, and those will be called straight up economic based layoffs. This comes from a mix of rumor and common sense. It’s pretty easy to see if you’re at Latham that we just have way more associates than they need and something has to give.
54 – I have a really nice car, a good sized house inside the loop (guaranteed to be at least double the space you are living in currently), almost all of my lawschool debt paid off, money left over for saving, clothing, saving, dining out, nights on the town, etc., memberships at two awesome museums, free access to the largest collection of Andy Warhol works outside of NYC close by, close proximity to some of the best Mandarin Chinese food in the whole country (and yes, I’ve lived in NYC, San Francisco, and China, so I know what I am talking about), among other food specialties here. It’s around 70 degrees and sunny outside right now. I will be going running outside tomorrow morning and it will be sunny and mild. Tomorrow’s high is 79 degrees.
I’m in BigLaw in Houston. That’s in Texas, FYI. I’ve only been out of law school for a few years. Can you please explain to me, again, why you people are all so convinced Houston is this “shithole” because we have such an excellent quality of life? I don’t get it. Have you even been to Texas before? Or do you think you’re a specialist because you watched Walker Texas Ranger as a child?
53 – come on down. I even know some firms here are still hiring, including mine.
90/92 – Jim Blank, not John. Also from NY in 2008, Kurt Rogers to Bingham and Steve Cherny to Kirkland.
Cravath 3L here – things are tough all over. Our NY hours are taking a big nosedive. Have not heard any rumors of a layoff yet.
IP Lit is still an extremely busy practice area.
Perhaps these guys have book, and decided that they didn’t want to chip in for the capital call?
Latham just got too big too fast. Now that the economy has tanked, all the cracks in its shaky foundation will start to appear. I have a feeling it will go the way of FINLEY KUMBLE.
L&W was huge in junk bonds, it has been since the days of Drexel Lambert (dodged the bullet there), and now that that market has disappeared, what is it going to do? Partners with portable books are going to start to run.
94 – I went to UT and, while I didn’t mind Austin, I visited Houston frequently and it is, in fact, a shithole. Sure, it’s 80 degrees right now, but its also 120 degrees 8 months a year and in Houston that means the pollution actually sticks to your skin. That, and by the time the women turn 30, their skin looks like leather from all the fake tanning, they need to have their tits re-done, and the sense of entitlement daddy gave them growing up is completely out of control.
LOL Elie – it’s funny how the lazy/unproductive/unproactive ones are always the ones that get laid off in these “stealth” layoffs. LOL LAZIES!!!!!!!!
Do all of these layoffs at various firms mean that junior associates and summers get their own offices in NY?
If so, is it considered inappropriate to bring my DVD library to the office since there won’t be any work to do?
-Stoked 2L who’s going to kill it this summer.
why do firms get blasted for being “disloyal” for making financially-motivated business decisions (layoffs or freezing salaries) while individuals get a free pass (riding PPP up on the back of your corporate/finance partners and then leaving for more money on the ebb tide)? aren’t these at least in the same ballpark? where’s the vitriol for lateral partner moves?
Latham article says partner profits fell a disasterous 14% to a measly $1.9mm, which is exactly equal to Gibson’s PPP. They must be suffering badly. After taxes, that’s one less Audi R8 in the garage, or 2 1/2 years of law school.
Sky truly must be falling if partners no longer make over $2mm a year. Maybe ASS-ociates will only make a measly $160k with no bonus going forward. How will they survive? The horrors!
103 here,
And remember, 2007 was a BUBBLE, so we cannot expect that to continue or even grow. There will be exceptions, but across the board people will do worse. The lawyer.com article details Latham’s capital expansion into new regions to diversify, etc. It may have come at a bad time given the economy, but in the long run their cemented presence in areas such as the Middle East will pay dividends. The “diversity” just won’t pay off immediately, but then again, neither do most “investments.” That’s why they’re called “investments.” But sometimes they go wrong, or otherwise have bad timing. However, for those bankers and finance guys (who are probably just hanging out these days), you look at the life of the project to get the NPV. This could pay off, and it could pay off huge in the long run.
It does really suck that the effect is to have to cut jobs for hard working, bright eyed young attorneys. But so goes the cost of life in this marketplace.
99,
Are you kidding me? Puhlease. I lived in NYC and Shanghai during the summer time. Houston is humid, yes, it’s hot, yes,. but I’m a LOT less sweaty and sticky feeling here than I ever was in NYC on the subway in the summer time…. It’s called air conditioning, and it works, and frankly it’s hella-pleasant compared to riding the subway in the summer time.
And P.S. your description of women sounds more like the Real Housewives of Orange County than any of the people I’ve met here. But hey, that’s cool, it’s just the circles you run in, no big deal.
- 94, who still has her real boobs, no fake tan, and inherited a work ethic and a concept of the value of money from daddy…
I’m very proud of the fact that I’ve never set foot in Texas, and I intend to keep my record clean. From what I’ve seen on TV and read in the papers — the entire state = Shithole.
105, don’t be an idiot. It’s objectively true that Houston is much hotter and more humid than NYC or Shanghai (as well as most other major cities). It is also one giant sprawl. Someone who appreciates the urban density of, e.g., NYC, Shanghai or SF (really the only place west of the Mississippi that has some semblance of it) would hate to live in Houston even if it weren’t for the godawful weather and Texans everywhere. As shocking as it seems to be to you, lots of people would prefer to live in a small apartment in a vibrant city than a mansion in what is essentially a huge suburb.
94,
You make some great points. Enjoy the next hurricane.
That’s right, Hurricane Katrina. Here’s a question for the Houston defender: are most of the Katrina refugees still running up the crime rate? Sorry, there are entirely too many sketchy individuals living down thar.
If Houston isnt a shithole, why do all you yahoos wear silly hats?
2 partners leave a 600 partner firm. DEFINITE SINKING SHIP!!!!! GET OUT NOW RATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I want my ATL back, Elie.
THE INSIDE VIEW OF LATHAM & WATKINS:
L&W is the next Titanic, a sinking, unrepairable ship taking the inevitable dive to the bottom of the ocean.
There are only a few life rafts left…get one while you can!
Ahoy! Ahoy!
YOU’RE ALL A BUNCH OF IDIOTS. THE TWO IP PARTNERS DID NOT LEAVE VOLUNTARILY. THEY WERE “LAID OFF” FOR “PERFORMANCE REASONS.”
HA HA HA.
LATHAM & WATKINS, YOU SUCK BIG-TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The corporate partners are having a harder time finding new homes, I can’t imagine why…
Latham was never the institution it pretended to be, they once again grew way too big, way too fast, like they’ve done over and over again, and now they’re screwed. Oh, I’m sorry, the ASSOCIATES are screwed.
The partners (or at least those who aren’t smart enough to leave first if it starts) could be screwed as well, but it remains to be seen if they’ll saw the legs off this thing (see associates & staff) fast enough to save the core. You know what’s gonna be great? Seeing the douchebag lawyers who work at Latham and came here and posted that the layoff victims were lazy and underperforming get cut on the next round. The comments from the Latham lawyers in the stealth layoff thread were really something special – I take no pleasure in the pain of others, generally speaking, but for you sacks of crap, it’s going to be a treat,
In LA, the majority of the 20 or so stealth layoffs were female associates, a fact that has raised some eyebrows among the female attorneys.
I’m a 3L incoming associate, and I’ve heard rumblings from multiple people of pushed back start dates, possibly into 2010. Any confirmation on that?
115, that’s more proof that LATHAM SUCKS BIG-TIME.
Anyone who’s still at L&W better be scared. By anyone, I mean associates and deadwood partners. By scared, I mean having a contingency plan in place. Be very careful with your finances at this point. That’s all I can say at the moment.
My son was laid off recently by LW and it was a moment of celebration for his father and I. There is nothing worse than working hard your entire life to achieve success and then being hired by a firm that cannot provide enough work for its associates. It was demoralizing for him to go to work everyday and have nothing to do. It was a crime for LW to hire people they could not keep busy and then blame them because there is not enough work. It was a terrible experience for him. After working so hard all of his life, the days at LW were meaningless. We are thankful for the lay-off and angry that so much of his time was wasted and so many of his hopes dashed. And they demoralized him in the process. He did do over 1000 hours of pro bono work but — by defnition — that gave him little usable experience in the market. And having run a business all my life, I cannot imagine hiring anyone without recognizing a duty to OFFER them work to do. If they don’t do it or do it poorly, get rid of them. They told him they liked his work product — there just wasn’t enough of it. He went there because he could learn how to be a corporate attorney. He wasn’t a rainmaker. He didn’t know enough when he started to bring in clients. To blame an out-of-school first year attorney for not bringing in clients is insane and ridiculous. Experience breeds confidence and confidence breeds clients. It is a failure of management that they hired people they could not teach and groom for their futures. As a business person, I find their hiring practices as dishonest as the studios buying scripts they never intend to use. They hurt good people and it is immoral. If they didn’t have the work, they should have been honest in the first place.
Like everyone else, he assumed he would be working 10-12 hours per day — that was part of the bargain. Begging for work and seeking pro bono work is just not what one expects from a 2200-person law firm.
I believe that they failed their employees and unfairly deprived hard-working young people of the training that they needed to be marketable when they were discarded.
Latham & Watkins is run by incompetent fools who can’t grasp simple business concepts.
Many extremely successful businesspersons have no formal education beyond college, and sometimes they only have high school diplomas or GED’s.
FOR THE LIFE OF ME, I CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY LAWYERS, WHO THINK THEY ARE SO SMART, CANNOT GRASP BUSINESS CONCEPTS.
But here’s my best guess: many lawyers, despite being good at abstract concepts, lack practical, real-world skills.
For example, look at some of the corporate partners that jump to the business side and focus entirely too much on documentation and the little details. They can’t see the forest from the trees.
Lawyers should practice law. Lawyers must understand that corporate law is nothing more than a support function of a business, similar to HR and accounting.
They should leave the business affairs to the real-world practitioners. That means not having an “executive partner” or an “executive committee chair” who is also a lawyer.
You need REAL business people to run a law firm. Lawyers should stop masquerading around as jacks-of-all-trades.
LET THIS BE A LESSON TO YOU ALL.
It’s even hard to get pro-bono work at LW right now. You have to fight for every single billable hour – even the useless ones. There is NO WORK and no pipeline.
Newsflash, 119: firms/businesses don’t care about people per se. They care about money. They may care about people just enough to make them efficient in bringing in money. But remember that money comes first.
This is America. This isn’t one of the countries on the other side of the planet where businesses treat employees out of a sense of ethics or morales.
Actually, what I mean is that this is America today. America used to be like those other countries.
Too many liberals now. They’ve ruined everything.
Just kidding. I couldn’t help but take a stab at the left wing that voted for a president because they couldn’t see through his bullshit and lack of experience.
These two IP partners leaving is a big deal. It’s one of L&W’s few busy groups. Not like they have a stellar bankruptcy department and private equity is DEAD. Just like L&W soon will be.
So, what’s the consensus on how long L&W has before dissolving?
3 months? 6 months? 1 year?
124 – my bet Q410
21, if associate salaries weren’t so high, then biglaw would not exist, and we would not be discussing the impending death of L&W.
39, you are a fucktard and an idiot. Sallie Mae does not chase people down because Sallie Mae does not own the student loans. Stupid piece of shit.
I give it 6 months. The partner defections have already begun.
Latham doesn’t know how to treat women.
129 – couldn’t agree more.
All the Latham 2Ls at my T14 are gunning it up hardcore so they can try to clerk and then go elsewhere. Not even bottom of the class tardwads would condescend to consider Latham at this point.
I was no-offered as a LW summer a few years back. I was treated very unfairly- stellar mid-summer reviews, absolutely no warnings, and then “sorry, no offer.” Their explanation for the lack of warning was that the recruiting committee had no idea there was a problem until the last week of the summer, when my “peer reviews” came, and a few people voted no-offer.
I realize I’m opening myself up on this board to accusations of being completely socially-inept. I can’t prove that I deserved the offer via internet. But my point is that it was completely unfair to give me universally positive reviews, and no opportunity to correct things.
It absolutely is a fraternity and if four or five people don’t like you enough to write a nasty “peer review,” then you get dinged.
No desire to see LW go down in flames, but I’m not surprised that so many commentators hate it. I experienced the “we’re the good looking, all belonged to the same USC Fraternity firm and no egg heads need apply” culture with a vengence.
It may not seem like it, but this is a huge loss for Latham.
Dave and Sean were the backbone of the patent litigation practice in two major offices. Patent Lit is a practice area that Latham really wants (or at least wanted) to grow. This are not just a couple worthless finance or corporate partners leaving. IP lit was to help carry Latham through the downturn. It’s one of the few practice areas where there is actually work.
There will be more layoffs at Latham, for sure, since the firm overhired. But by being the first to freeze salaries across the board, the firm will also lose the best associates and staff, ones they want to keep.
Latham will survive as a corporate firm, but it will be much leaner and humbler, without the globally diverse practice that it wanted.
132 – Sorry about your experience, but I’m sure there was some good and specific reason you didn’t get an offer, not just that people didn’t like you, you weren’t cool enough, or that you were an egghead. It takes more than that to get dinged, especially a couple years ago when the economy was humming.
First — 132: Do you understand how difficult it is to get negative reviews from “four or five people”? That speaks to who YOU are, not the firm. To get one negative review might be chalked up to who the reviewer is, but to get several — especially “a few years back” when firms were much less discriminating in who they hired — speaks pretty clearly to the fact that there was something wrong with you, not the firm.
Also, as for the “no egg heads need apply” culture, again you’re totally off base. Yes, there are some complete frat boys. But there are JUST AS MANY complete nerds (including me!) who thrive at Latham.
Second, as for the partner departures. Please put this in context: TWO partners left an office. That’s less than than .3% of the LW’s total p’ship ranks. In 2007, LW earned $2 billion dollars – the loss of two patent attorneys is ridiculously overstated. (Especially because patent prosecution is a very low-margin practice area.) LW has been busy scooping up laterals into several offices around the world in the past two months — partners who can bring in more, higher-margin business.
Get a grip on reality and stop freaking out about run-of-the-mill employment decisions.
—LW First Year
Departure of Pak and (especially) Nelson is a big blow. Nelson is an excellent patent trial attorney, and Pak is phenomenal for his young age. Pak’s departure is especially surprising as he was clearly being groomed for a leadership position. Latham has some serious problems that go to its core, but the simplest synopsis is that over the past several years management chose to focus more and more heavily on high-margin CDO and other corporate matters (e.g., billing $500/hour worked, regardless of what level attorney did the work). There is simply no market left for such deals, and it probably is never coming back. So, Latham will have to reinvent itself, yet again. The real problem is that most Lathamites who stick around more than a few years are complete assholes, and the system is structured to ensure that this continues. There’s a difference between being a demanding taskmaster and having no concept of humane and moral treatment of other human beings. But most senior Latham attorneys combine both traits in spades.
119 – If working at Latham was such a horrible experience for your son, then why didn’t he just quit?
And good thing you are such a successful businesswoman. Now you can take care of your poor damaged child, give him a job at your successful business, let him move back in with you, nurse him back to health.
My parents aren’t rich, successful businesspeople who would take me under their wing if I got fired and write an impassioned defense on Above the Law. I’d just have to stop whining and go get another job.
135 – You are obviously a first year. Latham doesn’t do patent prosecution. Its a big deal, despite your math proving otherwise.
138 — what makes the loss of TWO partners a “big deal”…and why isn’t adding nearly a dozen laterals in two months an equally “big deal”? The math is simple — we lost two partners out of SIX HUNDRED. We’ve gained more than that. We’re a two billion dollar a year business. Again, just put the departures in context.
–LW First Year
128++
Thought I would chime in on the defense side of Latham (as unpopular as that may be).
Latham has done a lot of IPOs (especially tech) in the past. When the credit markets exploded, IPO activity literally stopped, I mean nothing, nada, ziltch. It is only this week that we are begining to see some very small offerings.
At some point in the future, the IPO business will come back (unless the stockmarkets are DOOMED) and Latham will be the go-to firm for many of these tech listings.
I wouldn’t quite write the firm off yet. Deloitte and Touche also had all of the Ibanks as clients but I doubt they will be going out of business either.
139 – Unlike associates, partners are not fungible. The loss of two patent litigators with big or developing books of business is not simply offset by hiring lateral partners in other practice areas. Latham has not made any significant IP litigation lateral hires to offset these losses. IP and especially patent litigation is a critical growth area.
120 you fool, it is an ethical violation to have non-lawyers run a law firm. stupid jackass.
Is Latham screwed w/ recruiting? Will law students take them over other top CA firms?
Of course law students will take other top CA firms over L&W, especially Gibson. But who cares? L&W does not need another group of kids to sit around and do pro-bono work. When L&W does need them, the new kids will have forgotten all of this.
144 – Doubtful. Latham still has plenty of cache and there will be a lot of grads happy to get whatever they can in the future.
146 – The question wasn’t will there be kids without options. The question was given the choice, will the kids take L&W over other to CA firms.
135 = first-year L&W associate who’s blind to reality. He’s up for a big surprise in the coming months. I say “he,” and not “he or she,” because Latham fired a lot of women.
139 seems to think that all partners are equal. Ha ha ha.
143 = inept businessperson
Given other options, in the short term no associate will choose Latham. But Latham doesn’t give a fuck. It learned in the 90s that you can fire associates and get away with it.
The next crop of associates Latham will have to actively recruit to hire is about 17 years old right now. Associates who are getting reamed right now will have moved on and will be forgotten.
151 = dumbfuck douchebag who was “laid off” for “performance reasons”
I was not laid off. You can call me a dumb fuck and a douchebag, I don’t care. I’m just telling you how it is.
-151
151/153 = loser who’s permanently stuck on the unemployment line. I feel sorry for your future wife (husband) and kids. Oh, wait a second, you won’t have either!
Ha ha ha, dipshit.
Look, this isn’t the first time Latham has done this. And it won’t be the last as long as they can keep getting away with it. Law firm structure and economics ensure that they can.
The partnership track is only 8 years, and the majority of associates don’t even make it to year 5. The next generation of associates will look at this in the same way we looked at the 90s layoffs – It was a long time ago, a different situation, the firm learned its lesson and promised it woudn’t happen again, etc. Maybe the partners will make Bob Dell the fall guy (he did make that promise after all) and a new talking head will take his place and guarantee “change.”
But the next crop will be duped just like we were. Latham will continues to do high-level corporate work and associates want to work there anyway.
But the partners care about only one thing: money. So it will definitely happen again, and not just at Latham, but all over biglaw.
Hell, those of us that survive this will become rich partners, and the cycle of abuse will repeat itself all over again.
135 is an idiot. latham does not do prosecution as another person pointed out. I’m also a lw first year and work in patent lit. I’ve definitely heard of dave, but in my office pak is legendary (and i don’t work work in the sf office). i’m just freaked out now, i don’t think any firm or any practice group is safe.
156 — stop being such a pussy. “i don’t think any firm or practice group is safe” — i don’t think a box of tampons is safe around you. its two partners out a two billion dollar a year machine. man up, and stop blowing this out of proportion.
157, you are a fucktard and an idiot for the following two reasons, which are not all-inclusive:
1. No practice area is safe, just as no business industry is safe
2. Partners are not equal
Why can’t you at least understand #2??
Stupid motherfucking piece of shit asswipe.
Pak is a rising star; Nelson has a decent book and was the last true leader in IP in Chicago. On top of the outward stream of IP partners the past year and the number of senior IP associates who have jumped ship (including the fed circuit clerks) and this is a sign the outflow at least in this group may not be stopped. 135 – you’re a dumbass if you think differently.
135 is not a dumbass. He/she is a FUCKING dumbass.
135 is not a FUCKING dumbass. He is a STUPID FUCKING DUMBASS MOTHERFUCKER.
your all a bunch of idiots 160 161 et al i hope yo rot good ridance
Boo fucking hoo, 162. Take this quarter and go buy yourself a life.
162 for company man of the year. Kobe, tell me how my kool aid tastes
FUICK YOU 164
I think I interviewed with 158. 160-161 – Aren’t you on the summer committee?
senior at LW here. 97, 135, and 155 have it right. a lot of immaturity and no perspective with some of the comments. latham is not sinking – they are reflective of the economy. nelson and the others can get a better return on their book where they are going, and they won’t have to carry all the associates who are waiting for work to fall in their lap while they complain to mommy, apparently. cuts are coming at all firms. when things pick up, hiring will pick up, and the cycle repeats. lawfirms are not immune
Anyone who thinks Latham is NOT a sinking ship is in for a REAL BIG surprise. You’ll see. Just remember that I told you so.
168 my guess is you are 27 years old and don’t know shit
157 here….
To 158: I get it that practice areas aren’t “safe.” Everyone gets that. What the little bitches on this site don’t seem to get is that the whole legal profession is NOT in danger of collapsing. Yes, business will slow down (in all practice areas). Yes, people will be laid off (in all practice areas). If this is what you mean by all practice areas being vulnerable, then I completely agree with you. All of the other fuck-tards that think everything is going to hell need to grow some balls, stop whining about the slow down like a little girl who lost her Barbie, and get some perspective.
As for all partners not being the same — again, I get it. We all know that some partners bring in more business than others. But again, LW is a $2 billion+ firm. TWO partners leaving means nothing. If you’re getting your panties in a bunch about two partners leaving, why not do the same for the half-dozen laterals that joined LW’s p’ship in the last month?
159 — “Pak is a rising star; Nelson … was the last true leader “… Get out of their asses, DB.
169, your mouth is too big for your face, as fat is it is, son. Wise up.
What 170 completely fails to understand is that the departure is more than just two fungible partners leaving…it’s the start of an exodus of partners, associates, and business, and the collapse of a practice area within the firm.
For everyone’s sake including your own, 170, I hope you still have your job come three months from now. Better get out while you can. Trust me.
**********************************
THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF THE END FOR L&W, PEOPLE.
**********************************
I’m a 2L who stupidly picked Latham over some higher-ranked firms due to Latham’s “culture” (what a joke). Is it too late to contact those other firms that gave me an offer last fall?
Ha ha ha, 174! LaTTTham & WaTTTkins is goin’ DOWN!
172/173: grow some balls and stop bitching. the sky is not falling.
176, you’re right. The sky is not falling. Latham, however, is. No doubt about it.
Not up for discussion or debate.
174, I’m also a 2L and had the same question. I asked the people at Career Services and they said it’s probably inappropriate unless there L&W goes under or there are some clear indicators of such.
Looks like we’re both screwed… :-(
177 — Latham is a $2 billion dollar a year firm. It’s adding more partners than it’s losing. Like every other firm, it’s separating the wheat from the chaff by raising expectations at annual reviews…it’s not a firm that’s about to fall. stop getting your panties in a bunch over this.
My firm hired a lateral partner from Latham last year, and he is a total asshole. The type of person people smile at but despise of. Clearly, he has his eye set at the top. It will be a hard fall.
-Partner
Somewhat off-topic, but not totally: any word on upcoming layoffs at FF?
179, Latham is hiring too many partners. Partners are very expensive and the ones Latham is hiring probably won’t bring in enough business to be able to justify their compensation…
I agree with the other posters that L&W is a sinking ship. Don’t let revenues fool you. Look what happened to Lehman Brothers, Bear Sterns, AIG, Linens ‘n Things, Circuit City, etc.
L&W has no future. Good luck to all still there.
I’m trying to get out, 182, as are a lot of my co-workers. It’s not that easy to find another biglaw job. I am looking at government jobs, though. Kinda tired of this biglaw bullshit anyway.
What does this mean for the California law firm scene?
It’s bad, 184. Real bad.
Agreed. Very, very bad. L&W is on its way out the door. Permanently.
Anyone still working at L&W should be rather scared.
Latham is in serious trouble. The argument that it’s just a business cycle and things will turn around eventually misses the point — a negative business cycle wipes out some weak players. There is a lot of evidence LW is a weak player. They appear to have serious cash flow problems. They hit itheir partners last year for an increased capital contribution (some say as much as 100K), they have frozen salaries, and now some of their most profitable and counter cyclic partners are leaving. If others follow suit, they will collapse.
188 – you don’t know what you’re talking about. i look at the numbers weekly. i know many of the posters here want Latham to be in trouble – that makes them feel better about being in the bottom 20% and getting canned.
have you all not noticed that almost every firm is cutting people? if you people think you’re better off going to Weil, Simpson, or anywhere else, you’re not looking at reality. it is tough everywhere. Latham is not in trouble. and putting in CAPITAL letters doesn’t make it any more factual. it just makes you look like the 20-something you are who still is figuring out how to handle a Saturday night buzz
The inevitable collapse, if it occurs soon, will be good for the associates terminated for “performance reasons.” These attorneys will be able to demonstrate that the terminations were de facto economic layoffs.
thanks 190. you just proved my point – all of the people talking about Latham being in trouble and the inevitable collapse are the ones who got axed and who want to feel better about themselves. waahhh – i only billied 1200 hours last year and I didn’t have enough work. waahhh i only got paid 165K to start waahhhh. Mommy they didn’t treat me well and keep me busy – waahhhh. you would have been cut loose anywhere slackers
182 – “Don’t let revenues fool you”??????? Revenue is what it’s all about. Circuit City failed because it didn’t have revenue. As for Lehman, Bear, and AIG – I’m pretty sure Latham is not holding large portfolios of mortgage-backed securities, dipshit
I am seeing very few Latham lateral partner resumes coming through my firm. By comparison, Clifford Chance, Cadwalader, Chadbourne, MoFo resumes abound.
Second, capital contributions are normal. You start to worry when they are happening frequently and in large amounts like at Clifford.
A few people keep saying that LW is a $2 billion a year firm. I guess they were more impressed than most of us by last years AMlaw 100 articles. The word from The Lawyer, http://www.thelawyer.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=136607&d=415&h=417&f=416 is that LW is more like a $1.6 billion firm this year. that drop in revenue is pretty damn high for a large firm.
In fact, looking through this http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1202427137779
20% is the highest. LW revenues down MORE then Cadwalader or McKee Nelson. Other than those two, the only firm more exposed to the financial crises was…. Thacher Proffitt.
Yeah, everything is just A-okay at LW. Nothing to see here.
192, profits are the bottom line, not revenue. Do you know nothing about business?
Wait, don’t answer that. We all already know that the answer is NO.
Epic fail.
Latham is in serious trouble. Partner defects galore, crashing profits, and piss-poor associate work product (I’ve reviewed plenty…leaves much to be desired). Bye-bye, Latham. You had a good run. But all things must come to an end.
It’s hilarious how people still working at L&W tricked themselves into believing that L&W is a stable fortress guaranteed to survive forever and ever. Ha ha ha…wait and see!
Uhh, Circuit City had no revenue? Are you saying that Circuit City had zero sales? Because that’s what you mean when you say “Circuit City had no revenue.” Not very smart. I hope you don’t work at L&W, because if you do, well, let’s just say that you slipped through the performance termination cracks. Don’t worry, I’ll get ya!
191 = insecure bumbling idiot with thin skin. You obviously get riled up by the comments here and take things WAY too personally. Why? You must be insecure or fugly (fugly = fuck ugly = you).
Can anyone confirm that Latham rescinded offers to at least 3L’s in NY?
Can anyone confirm that this round of cuts is finished? Reviews are still going on in some offices, although possibly only to first-years.
191 is just the kind of sorry fuck that the rest of us will rejoice to see kicked to the curb on the next round.
And with partners in active practice areas heading for the exits, not wanting to kick in lots of new capital to support the corporate ass holes who blew the whole thing up, it won’t be long now.
189 – if you really did look at the numbers weekly, you would say something else. Or haven’t you looked at the pace numbers for January yet?
Is LW really in deep shit or are people who don’t like the firm just saying this?
From what I can tell, the firm recruits some of the very top law students and also some pretty mediocre ones. The top ones go there b/c it’s a V10 (maybe “was a V10″ is more appropriate) with a frat culture, and the mediocre ones go there because it’s a V10 and they’re pissing their pants b/c they got a “big firm” job at a “top tier” firm.
Was part of LW’s downfall its tendency to take nearly everyone who applies there? Is it the least selective of the top CA firms (Gibson, Munger, Irell, Quinn, OMM)?
If this is such a set-back for LW, which firms take over in CA?
204 – LW is a paranoia bubble. I seriously doubt that LW is in as much trouble as the comments on here.
204 — the total attack on Latham now (based mostly on misinformation) is not really that different from the total adoration of Latham a year ago (based mostly on misinformation). Neither was particularly fair or accurate. Latham is a good place to work with good people. It is in fine financial shape, with no debt, and a lot of talented lawyers. It has been hurt by the economy, but so have many, many other firms, including all of the top 10 (most of whom are much more reliant on NY corporate work than Latham). The question is not whether people who don’t know what they are talking about think that Latham is sinking now. The question will be which firms will end up in the best place two years from now, and I think Latham will be one of the firms that ends up in good shape.
Latham is indeed in some serious trouble. There’s one person here who has posted numerous times about how bright Latham’s future is. This person, I kid you not, is wearing blinders, and his eyes are closed to the real situation. I am desperately trying to get out, but the lateral market for mid-level corporate associates is pretty much non-existent.
- L&W Associate
Gibson Dunn will fill the void that LaTTTham & WaTTTkins leaves behind in the near future.
204, I mistakenly chose Latham over some higher ranked firms because of the “culture” you regard so highly. I don’t know whether you’re a law student or an associate, but don’t make the same mistake I did.
209 – I agree with you. I chose LW because of it’s “culture”. I’ve now found out what it’s culture truly is. Frat-boy, “pet” friendly and greedy partners who think they are better than most. Big BIG mistake on my part in joining this firm. I too am desperately trying to get out.
A very small number of large firms are safe. That small group includes only firms with the very best practioners (partners matter most, but having great associates matters too) and some boutiques. Wachtell is an example of one of the few safe firms. Then you have a bunch of firms with some top practioners and some rainmakers. At these firms, the practitioners and the rainmakers need each other, although the practitioners are a bit more fungible than the rainmakers. If they lose the wrong rainmakers, they die a very quick death. If they lose too many great practitioners, they die a slow death. Latham is one of these firms. This is not say that Latham is in trouble, but it’s certain that if the wrong partners leave Latham, the firm is walking dead. Only the partners at Latham, associates who get their hands on info they aren’t meant to have, and well-informed headhunters could possbly know who’s who. The rest is just rumor.
These comments make me think of the unattractive girls at my high school that used to relish and squeal with joy anytime the prom queen had a pimple, or was having a bad hair day. Seiously, in my opinion, you all are helping boost Latham’s reputation by blasting your envy and your hopes for its demise. To answer some previous comment, the reason why LW gets more attention than any other firm, is because its the best firm, and the firm that has the most talented, best educated, and best looking people. LW has been hurt by the economy, but no more so than all of the other firms.
212, Best looking? Is THAT how clients pick their counsel? That is hilarious.
189 – I am not some 20 something. I am 48. I know several LW people – not 1Ls but partners. They have serious issues that go far beyond the issues at most place. I suspect that you are some dopey associate that knows nothing about the practice of law. So pull your head out of your ass. You are the one that has know idea what he is talking about.
Of course you focus in on that part, and not the entire point of the comment. Tier IV much?
What is Tier IV?
213, no, that’s not how clients pick their counsel. That is part of the many reasons all of you trolls hate on LW, though.
213, I actually admire Latham, have many friends there, have served as co-counsel or worked opposite Latham attorneys on deals and enjoyed it, would have loved to have worked there and do not think it is headed for the tank. So my comment does not come out of spite. I responded as I did because it was a really lame point.
213 here, I actually admire Latham, have many friends there, have served as co-counsel or worked opposite Latham attorneys on deals and enjoyed it, would have loved to have worked there and do not think it is headed for the tank. So my comment does not come out of spite. I responded as I did because it was a really lame point.
212, how old are you?
3L who summered at L&W last summer. Off to a clerkship (thank goodness!) and definitely will not go back post-clerkship (thank goodness!). There were some great people there, and good luck to all who remain.
221, have you read the posts on the site about clerks who are struggling to find jobs? Seems to me that you might be very fortunate to have L&W as an option when you are done.
222, you’re assuming that Latham is still around by that point and has not gone the way of TPW, Heller, etc.
If a 9th Circuit clerk cannot get any of the other top CA firms to bite, then I will eat my words and consider going back to Latham. But I’m confident that it will not come to that.
-221
223, yeah, yeah. I get the theme of the posts. I guess we’ll both know soon enough.
21 said that Latham & Watkins is “the best firm, and the firm that has the most talented, best educated, and best looking people.”
Oh help me, my sides are splitting!
Good one (whether it was a joke or you are delusional)!
Ha ha ha ha!
221, I wish I had applied for a clerkship when I had the opportunity. Now I’m FUBARed at L&W.
212, 217, 225 is the one and only author of all the other posts on this thread that blindly lavish praise and kiss-ass on L&W. It’s hilarious how blind-sided/defensive you are!
You must’ve been rejected by other higher ranking firms, so now you feel the need to gush on and on about how good L&W is (even though it’s doomed) because that makes you feel better.
Don’t worry. We all understand. It’s okay. But remember to take your self-esteem pills.
I think I know who 212 is…
I interviwed at Latham and the recruiting lady was a fat, horrible, dirty douche. She was mean and condescending to two women in the room who were much prettier than her. She was a fat, miserable lady. Down with the whole place. Get a cute, fun recruiting lady. I hate the firm just from that experience for the rest of my life. So glad I picked a different firm. so so so so so glad..
Names! 229, out the douchebag! I want a name!
someone trying to get a rise out of you all
I just heard from an extremely reliable source that Latham has recently refused to give class-year promotions a large number of associates in one of its offices for not making hours. To clarify, I’m not talking about a salary freeze, but keeping people as second years for an additional year instead of promoting them to third year.
Has anyone else heard reports of this going on?
Are there any associates leaving with them?
233 – what office?
235 – all of them.
Latham & Watkins – Leading the way in repeated layoffs, pay cuts, and douchebaggery for two decades and into the future. Friends don’t let friends work at Latham.
2L here with a solid summer associate offer from Paul Hastings. I interviewed at Latham and am SOO glad I didn’t get an offer there. From all the talk on ATL I would be surprised if Latham will even be around come June. Everything people are saying about Lathams’ fratty culture is so true. They only hire beautiful people and even put a gym in their new LA office. How vein of those assholes. Anyway, I just wanted to give my two cents.
238 I feel sorry for you. Paul Hastings is a total mess for reasons related to the recent economic crisis and for reasons related to its total dysfunction in many offices for the past several years. Don’t worry, you’ll find out in a few years. Not an LW attorney or a PH attorney, just objectively telling you from my few years in BigLaw that if you think PH is better than LW, you are lost in the woods.
i was actually interested in this site when i heard about it. but with such witticisms as “fucktard” and “fugly” and some of the other sniping, i’ll leave you 7th grade girls to yourselves. keep on bashing while i’m billing.
come on guys it’s all about ball bearings these days. maybe you fellas need a refresher course.
this isn’t russia. is this russia?
I read on the American Lawyer site that even though profits were down by 21 percent, 2008 was the second most profitable year in the firm’s history…seems unlikely that Latham is going to crumble.
241: DO you think that if LW replaceed the 7 Fetzer valve things would resolve?
I love Lamptam
244 – yes. and there is a tremendous amount of gook on these windows.
G. Gordon
I was once on a flight sitting next to a Latham partner. What a jerk. I am in bridge construction and I have these fold out maps which take up a tremendous amount of space and I need the space. there were open seats everywhere and I asked him to move but he wouldn’t. His name was Morris or Pierre.
247 – STFU. People who work in bridge construction do not come on ATL. Why dont you jump off the bridge that you just did or did not build.
248 you’re an idiot. I am a lawyer and I work in bridge construction. My name is Ted Nugent. I’m also going to have to pull rank on you. I’m with the mattress police, and there are no tags on any of these mattresses.
why the hell didnt you move instead of asking latham partner to move?
I’m thinking those at LW who don’t like the atmosphere should just go ahead and quit – that way the people who actually want to stay there might not get laid-off. Don’t like working there – go elsewhere – simple.
I’m thinking those at LW who don’t like the atmosphere should just go ahead and quit – that way the people who actually want to stay there might not get laid-off. Don’t like working there – go elsewhere – simple.
I’m thinking that the Latham lawyers who have written in these comments that they “made a bad decision” or “are regretting their decision” to work at Latham. Should go ahead and quit. Perhaps then someone who actually has no problem working for Latham might be able to keep their job. If you don’t like it quit – duh.
Instead of talking about FIRMS etc that are going to fail, let’s talk about AREAS of LAW that are going to WHITHER on the vine:
IP Law – IP law works in a world where there’s excess capital to, you know, make music and trademarks and there’s value in protecting them. That’s NOT this world. Patent law is somewhat more safe because of the inherent value of the underlying product.
Family Law – Historically, divorces and separations fall in weaker economies as families burdened by mortgages or the expense of separation learn to deal with one another. This area is dead.
Business Torts – Less business, fewer torts, although this may be a wash as it
Anything with the word “International” – DONE. OVER. KAPUT.
General Business Finance & Transactions – Yah. Maybe you can get some of that STIMULUS or TARP money. Hehe.
Lobbying – WAY UP. But this requires that you 1) have some juice and 2) aren’t an idiot law student who didn’t do anything else in his or her life.
Government Work – Everyone who doesn’t have a job as of this spring is going to be clamoring to work at the Bureau of Such and Such or the Department for the Preservation of This Or That. Competition will be fierce for this jobs that, compared to the big law firm jobs of yesteryear, pay nothing. But hey, at least you can make some progress on your student loans… hopefully.
What’s going to be a decent – i.e., paying – area of law:
Bankruptcy – Duh.
Trusts & Estates – People always die, and those who do will leave behind people clamoring for money in these hard economic times. People always plan for death. People always need to estate plan. BUY GOLD!
Personal Injury – AWESOME! Sue the other mo-fo for some money. It’s kind of like welfare, but if you’re lucky, you get to have a little trial in court before you get your payoff.
Criminal Law – Yeah, no one, as usual, will be able to pay for this kind of law. BUT, there will be MORE of it. And this is one area where, in spite of hell or high water, the government will feel compelled to keep staffing levels the same, or increase them, especially because, my friends, crime will be going up. Oh yeah, I guess you can become a prosecutor if you want.
Sorry you’re resentful 253, but the smarter ones left for other jobs a long time ago, the rest will continue to spout the party line at work and tell the truth only here until they’re fired.
To #247 – Why did YOU move if there were open seats all over the place. Just curious. Seems like there was more than just one jerk on that flight.
To #247 – Why didn’t YOU move if there were open seats all over the place. Just curious. Seems like there was more than just one jerk on that flight.
I am ex-Latham and ex-McKinsey. I did some seriously cone-headed work in L&W DC and didn’t find it to be much of a fratfhouse. I did, however find it to be a well-run enterprise and one that tended to treat its associates as respected adults. Granted, that was during good economic times.
You may or may not agree with the above. Regardless, having swum in other industries, my question is why you believe people working in law firms are or should be immune from headcount reductions in times of economic contraction? Why would the legal profession enjoy such a privileged position as to be the sole sector of the economy where there are no layoffs?