first!

Sent it at 4:20? Perhaps there is something else going on at KL?

At least a firm is finally willing to state the obvious that there is no such thing as a purely economic layoff unless the entire department is axed. If there are 50 people in Dept. X and 20 get laid off, they didn't choose the 20 of 50 at random, it was PERFORMANCE.

Obviously, sometimes the hurdle is set a lot higher for acceptable performance, but that doesn't mean that it just the economy, stupid.

Stealth layoffs happening at Bracewell & Giuliani today.

TTT firm designed for attorneys who could not cut it in big law. defector losers.

Fourth!

Bracewell & Giuliani are conducting STEALTH LAYOFFS as we speak!!! Get on this!

Bracewell & Giuliani are conducting STEALTH LAYOFFS as we speak!!! Get on this!

5- I HOPE YOU ARE NOT KIDDING> F B&G

KKKramer

#4 -

What if you were a first year associate that received little to no work at all during your four months at the firm, and you happened to be let go at that moment because you were not staffed on a project, while another first year was staffed, all by random circumstance? And perhaps you were not as good as asskissing to the partners? Does asskissing constitute performance?

#4 -

What if you were a first year associate that received little to no work at all during your four months at the firm, and you happened to be let go at that moment because you were not staffed on a project, while another first year was staffed, all by random circumstance? And perhaps you were not as good at asskissing to the partners? Does asskissing constitute performance?

The ship be sinking...

12 - Did the firm let go first years?

I think that is one of the best indicators of how screwed a firm really is.

4; you're an idiot. If the condition of the economy is what is driving changes to the performance standards applied to attorneys at review time, then it is the economy that is driving the layoffs, not the performance standards.

And some of your twenty may be picked at random. For example, it would be very difficult to detect an observable and objective performance difference between two junior associates who have been tasked with nothing but document review and other mundane jobs during their time at the firm. So, sometimes, the firms that have to lay those people off just pick one. Its that simple at the lower levels. Also, a highly performing associate can be laid off simply because he does most of his work for a partner in a bad practice area, or because the partner he works for currently has little business.

In short, it really is the economy, stupid. And one who thinks that their performance can save them no matter what in the face of declining firm profits is fool. The only "performance" category that matters now is the ability to generate business, a performance that most associates cannot master. So go ahead and think that writing a better brief will save you, but it might not if your firm is suffering or you work for the wrong partner.

15 - No, I was already let go from one of the firms from Black Thursday and I speak from experience. You can probably guess which firm.

Just wait until the Vault survey deadline passes us by - then the real bloodletting will begin.

Happy, employed associates in the V25 until they all put in their responses. A year from now those who are let go will be outside the sample and those who are still here will be psyched to still have a job.

12 - yes. asskicking does count.

And here I thought firms would wait until Elie got back to resume the carnage.

Yeah 4 is completely and obviously wrong.

If you loose half your business and have to axe half your associates, you obviously will try to axe the bottom half based on reviews.

Those are still purely economic layoffs so long as the associates would have been kept on in a normal year.

At least a firm is finally willing to state the obvious that there is no such thing as a purely economic layoff unless the entire department is axed. If there are 50 people in Dept. X and 20 get laid off, they didn't choose the 20 of 50 at random, it was PERFORMANCE.

__________________________________________

So what is the performance basis for axing only some incoming 3Ls while keeping others? How about the basis for cancelling some summer offers while keeping others?

22 -

Summer associates are evaluated; the incoming 3Ls could be selectively culled based on those (minimal evaluations).

Remaining Kramer Levin first years to 190!

Ass kissing (etc.) is all that counts at this juncture...

I prefer syrup.

17, actually can not guess (there were so many), but i was an incoming associate at one of the firms that dissolved, so i feel your pain. good luck!

Far be it from me to imply that mi'lady is interested in entering into nuptial arrangements solely for monetary gain, however it would be improper to hypothesize, and impermissible to conclude, that the lady would render her affections to a gentleman of lesser monetary means.

- Kanye Lothario

No 21, a firm will probably not even try to eliminate the bottom half in such a situation. For example, say partner "A" has a ton of business, and one of the midlevel associates working for partner A is a mediocre fool. Partner B has very little business and the midlevel associate working for him is competent, or even perhaps brillant. Very often, firms will treat Partner A and B as essentially separate businesses, fire the good associate working for B and keep the mediocre (or even poor) one working for A. There is very little associate substitution going one between partners, and this is particularly true at the mid and senior levels. That's why its very important to pick a good partner to work for, and hope that his business doesn't dry up in the 10 yrs it takes to make partner.

This sounds like something Latham would do.

THIS FAMOUS CELEBRITY SUPPORTS CHILD ABUSE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoiOo3zSVDw

Wasn't there a K---- K---- K----- in the title a few minutes ago? Did they just edit that out?

I'm on a boat

I'm on a boat

27 - I agree to the extent that the pool you are trying to eliminate associates from will be based on where the business is or is not. Some groups may loose nobody, some may loose all depending. So its not done by FIRM so much as group or sub-group.

That said, the proposition that firms will TRY to use exaluations to guide economic layoffs still stands. If partner A looses half his business and has two midlevel associates under him, I bet they will typically can the one with the less-good reviews even if they were still pretty decent.
-21

27 is right. Associates are lying to themselves if they think their firms have any more insight into or care about their performance than "Partner A likes him." So, yes, if we're defining "performance" as "having chosen a partner whose book of business stayed strong," then layoffs are performance based.

Bunch of ass-wipe econ major 1L's reading this blog thinking that their "work product" will stand out. Drop dead.

Ha, yeah partners just LIKING you or not will probably trump (or guide) any reviews in many cases. Good point.

-21

loose =/= lose.

Good thing I am at Paul Hastings...

No layoffs
PPP are up
and the firm just sold me these awesome certificates of deposit that yield 15%

See you around suckers, I am rich !!!

Marin is a sore loser. She should at least throw in a few typos and horrendous grammar mistakes so Elie doesn't look bad.

26 is a genius

It looks like 4 is plagiarizing me. Now that is LAZY !!!!!!!!!!

Having observed layoffs at my shop, the criteria seems to be (1) asskissing; (2) the particular partner personalities in each practice area; (3) asskissing.

If anything, there was a stark non-correlation between layoffs and performance. But if you feel better thinking otherwise, good luck with that.

Paul Hastings just sold me a fetus.

this site has gone down hill very rapidly in the absence of Elie.

lets see a few stories on PPP that was up in 2008 - y'know, the stories that the law sTTTudents who post here might miss in the daily blog reading....

Bring Back ELIE and QUICK

These comments are awful. Law students continue to offend me.

FIRST to say the Michael Ray Richardson guy is officially tiresome

16: Exactly. Everybody likes to think they're a standout or that they'll be a standout but, ultimately, so much of this is the luck of the draw. Some partners love to blame associates for shortcomings, others work together as a team and share their successes with associates. Some partners will aggressively advocate for an associate, some are way too timid or too junior to do the same. It truly all depends.

This would never happen at Skadden.

Where is Elie???

Major firms annoucing PPP is not a story? But small town Canada law is?

I hear you, 45. I've been sick of that character for weeks! He needs to find a new hook.

"Hey, Shooter, wanna grab some grub at Red Lobster?"

46 - stars are smart, hardworking and will attract work to the firm in the future. We know them when we see them, and will bend over backwards to keep them at the firm. The other 99%? Not so much....

51,

Only 1% is in the top 1%. Those between the 20th percentile to the 80th percentile have drastically different experiences depending on who they work with. That is where the hottie at the 20th percentile gets better treatment than the top 10 law school grad at the 80th percentile.

No layoffs at B&G

53--not true. I know 2 associates laid off at Bracewell (Houston office). Both of them told me that there were at least 5 others let go at the same time.

Do events that happen in Houston count?

Why don't you guys make a post about what firms in the Vault 100 (yes, some of us care about firms outside the V10) had their PPP/revenue/etc. go UP in 2008? I realize, as most of us do, that basically every firm is going through tough times right now but it'd be nice to be able to distinguish the firms that are better off than most. Some firms know they can get away with stuff like pay freezing, lower bonuses, etc., in light of the economy and so that criteria doesn't really tell us how healthy a particular firm is.

The only way to do this is to look at their 2008 numbers and see what exactly is going on. So, um yeah, please do so.

Sidley had a profitable year, despite the shitstorm. But abovethelaw only likes to scare the crap out of its readership. its like the foxnews of blogs.

B&G is doing its annual reviews now. The issue isn't that people were laid off, it is whether the layoffs were legitimately performance-based or whether the layoffs were based on firm economics.

56: the American Lawyer is keeping a tally of that info on its website (no subscription necessary). It would be nice to hear about the firms that have NOT frozen salaries and seem to be relatively stable.

57 - other firms as well, but best to post about legal needs in mooseass canada....who wants to hear about firms where PPP went UP in 2008....

what is TTT?

Unrelated question - what is a "staff attorney" vis-a-vis a biglaw law firm? Something other than an associate?

LAYOFFS?!?! Don't talk about -- LAYOFFS?? You kiddin' me?!? LAYOFFS???????1?

Goodness, so many jobs to cut, so many support staff to slash. I've barely had a moment to myself. If I didn't love axing people so much, I'd outsource this shit to India.

McKee Nelson layoffs today!

SkaddenLA laid me off.

Did these lame-o's lay off first years?

4 is an idiot that is for sure. Implicit in that argument is that those 20 would not have been fired if the economy was good. And because the economy drives the need to free up 20 salaries, it's simply a mathematical formula. In other words, an above average 6th year making significantly more than a slightly moronic 2nd year could be fired because the firm still needs a monkey doing doc review. Word.

i was let go and have a few things to say. i am annoyed b/c one of the guys in my group was not laid off simply b/c he iss a good shooter on the kramer basketball team. he is good i have to admit, but he can be a pansy when the game gets physical. he should get let go just for that...in my opinion. once, I heard him squeal for an intentional foul. what a fruit...

69 - i know that guy. he is a greater shooter on our b-ball team and wasn't let go b/c he is a high biller and will likely be a partner soon...

I am surprised the Simpson troll hasn't yet shown up about his stories of supposed layoffs at Simpson, as if anyone believes him, lol

Layoffs at BIPC today??

71: you are the real troll coming here talking about Simpson when nobody mentioned it in this thread

Are you busy Saturday? No? Great, how'd you like to mow my lawn.

62 - someone a notch about a paralegal i.e. JD, no associate credentials, but skilled enough to keep around for doc review. usually kept to maintain retainer accounts with large corporations. basically big firm gets a big corp client on some alternative billing arrangement, then biglaw pulls a bait and switch and puts a bunch of staff attorneys on the corp's work, which is even worse than the huge waste of money encountered with First year associates....

staff attorneys are also used to oversee contract attorneys... i.e. they play "bad cop" lawyer and crack the whip on contract attorneys, but they themselves have no growth potential at the firm, and a largely frozen salary.

whats going on at winston

You all will be laid off by years end. Get ready. Unless of course you get bailed out by the gov.

First to say Judge Smales is amazing.

Commissioner whispers in ear -

"They want me out! Banned for life! What this 'hook' mess? I swear I didn't take no 'hook'! I only had a little 'crack.'

They let me keep playin' if I was white!"

thank god i work in the busiest, most profitable practice group of my firm, and for the partner in that group with the most business. i'm keeping my fingers crossed that things stay good...

75 - Staff Attorneys are often former associates. They get paid less than associates and have no upward mobility prospects, but they're also free from the "up-or-out" pressure and have low billable requirements.

In an environment like this, they're also cheaper to keep around than associates, and can do a lot of the same "scut work" (e.g. doc review and supervision of paralegals/contract attorneys). They are also profitable to the firm since they are often billed at associate rates or as "project associates" but get paid less than "real" associates. FWIW.

This firm has been cutting associates quarterly since 4th quarter 2008. Latest round - 12-15 associates.

15 associates THIS (Q4 '09) quarter?