Fist?

"which people that will be let go"

Even Lat can't save Elie's editing skills. Sigh.

should have left out the conference room bit.

Guys at my high school used to reserve large blocks of conference rooms for themselves and their administrative minions all the time. It was a big deal!

What a monumental fuck up. How will and Latham associate sleep until Friday?

3 - Refresh your browser. That has been fixed.

They're trying to cover a story in real time; give them a break.

First the brought us the freeze.
Now they are bring us the v10 layoffs.

What will Latham bring us next?

Wow. I guess the impending recession was less than obvious in March 2008, but still... this looks pretty bad.

Wow....tragic.

I know of plenty of people who turned down DPW, Cleary, Skadden et al cause they bought into their whole west coast vibe...

Lat AND Fattie double teaming for a single post. Still trying to show Fattie the ropes Lat?

4 - Why leave out the conference room bit? It is evidence (albeit circumstantial).

Conference room reservations are how the Cadwalader layoffs came to light before official word.

any 3L rescinds?

Latham partners' plan:

1) over-expand on bubble built areas
2) make no-layoff promise when bubble bursts
3) lose 25% gross revenue in one year
4) fire 10% of associates under the guise of performance layoffs
5) realize that's not enough, fire an additional 10% and call them actual layoffs
6) ???????????????????????
7) PROFIT!

NY to 190!

11 - Lat and Elie have shared a byline before. It's not unusual when reporters work together closely on a story. Click here and scroll down:

http://abovethelaw.com/profile/David%20Lat%20and%20Elie%20Mystal

Most partners will be nice guys if it doesn't cost them anything. When it comes to crunch time it's usually throw momma from the train.

Thanks ATL! I was wondering when you were going to write about this. You did not disappoint.

Please continue to follow the story as it unfolds. Some of us want every little detail.

Sincerely,
Worried in New York

12- next time, Latham (and for that matter any firm planning layoffs) will reserve conference rooms under many more names to avoid tipping off the likes of ATL.

It's evidence but it's also a tool that until now used to be a useful one. Firms now know what to do. (at least the ones that read ATL and care)

Wow, what a clusterf**k. So the associates pay the price for stupid lateral partner hiring decisions, some of which were made as recently as a few months ago. For shame Latham, for shame.

Elie, an idea:

Why don't you do an analysis of some statistics at the firms that have laid off associates as compared to the firms that have not. What I (and I'm sure others) want to know is:

1) Is there a difference in the overall leverage at firms that have laid off as compared to firms that haven't? (measured by the associate to partner ratio).

2) What does the practice group concentration look like? Are layoff firms more concentrated in certain practice areas? Which ones? (concentrated as measured by the percentage of associates practicing in specific groups).

3) Are hiring practices related to propensity to lay off associates? In other words, look at the summer class size over the last few years and see if there are any notable trends w/ layoff firms as compared to non-layoff firms.

This info would provide some much needed insight into the contemporary management practices of big firms.

You can use NALP data for all of these questions. I'd do this myself, but . . . well . . . I'm not getting paid for it. If you want to pay me for it, let me know in the comments here and we can talk.

this news clearly means that Latham won't be going through with their plans to open a philly office. this is horrible news for UPenn State's satellite campus in philly. if they don't get their employment numbers up (which won't happen if philly market doesn't improve) surely they will lose their ABA accreditation! they are already a tier 4 i believe.

My stepfather was a partner at Shearman (left in 2003) and against his advice I am in LS now.

He says every single firm is going to lay off and the only questions remaining are: (1) whether they fire first years; (2) what kind of severance they give.

If they fire people they hired scarcely months ago then they are in dire straits. (Think Heller).

They are fucking you over because the economy is forcing them to. But it's up to them how gracefully they handle it.

Look to severance. This is the key issue.

this news clearly means that Latham won't be going through with their plans to open a philly office. this is horrible news for UPenn State's satellite campus in philly. if they don't get their employment numbers up (which won't happen if philly market doesn't improve) surely they will lose their ABA accreditation! they are already a tier 4 i believe.

Did the firm change its name to Watikins? Or are you trying to be funny? (I am giving you the benefit of the doubt you did not mess up the name)

Announcing layoffs on the Internet. Now, I wish I had thought of that!

21 - That sounds like a project for the American Lawyer, which has a much larger staff, including people trained in statistics and quantitative analysis.

Latham & Watkins - Leading the legal world in layoffs, salary cuts, and douchebaggery for two decades and into the new millennium.

19 - ATL mentioned the conference room thing with the Cadwalader layoffs (both rounds), and Latham still made the same mistake:

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/07/nationwide_layoff_more_cadwalader.php

http://www.abovethelaw.com/2008/01/various_cadwalader_rumors.php

Firms are just like people. They never learn.

WOW

Saying there are not going to be no layoffs and then firing 70-150 associates!

WOW. I knew Latham was a bunch of A-holes but WOW.

Associates should sue, arguing that they relied on the verbal contract that there would not be layoffs.

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ATL needs to follow the severance issue closely.

AcelaBob to ATL MVP of 2009

Why don't all the Latham associates just stay home tomorrow?

21 -- Your second question is fairly easy to answer: the layoffs have hit the finance and real estate lawyers the hardest, the ones in the fields most closely related to the core of the current economic problems. The answer to your first question is related to the answer to your second question -- highly leveraged firms heavily invested in the worst hit areas are laying off more people, more quickly or will simply not exist next year. I think the answer to your third question is that they're not related, but that's my gut.

Also, don't ask a gossipy blog for a statistical analysis. It's just dumb.

What is UPenn State?

29, I guess that was my mistake. I assumed they would learn. oh well.

Seems conference room mistakes are not the only mistakes that firms don't learn from though.
-19

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ATL needs to follow the severance issue closely.

I agree with 34. Your request is like asking DealBreaker to run the kind of statistical analysis that you would see in the Wall Street Journal.

If they try to take my stapler I'm going to set the conference rooms on fire.

Time to nationalize this zombie firm.

10- listing Skadden with DPW and Cleary? Really 10?

35, it's a literal TTT with a main campus in carlisle, PA and a satellite campus in philly. it's most notorious claim to fame is that the satellite campus has dellusions of grandeur and always tries to pass itself off as unaffiliated to the main campus (they try to drop the "state" from their name), and as superior. some laughably even claim that it is an "ivy" or an "ivey" (depending on whether they have at least researched their lies). rofl.

AAAAHHHHH

HA AHAHA HA AH AHA H

HAAHA HA HA HA

HHAHA HAHA AH HA

HH HA HA AHAHA AH AHA

HA AH AH A

AHA HAHAH

HHH

Let's be clear - the no layoff promise was for 2008 only.

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ATL needs to follow the severance issue closely.

30 - "Associates should sue, arguing that they relied on the verbal contract that there would not be layoffs."

See 44, who claims that "the no layoff promise was for 2008 only."

Also, wait until we know about severance. Cadwalader in round 1 of layoffs said "no more layoffs this year." So when they did round 2, they paid severance through the end of the year.

If Latham is generous with severance, that may address the issue a little.

What is UPenn State?

reliance is not consideration, 30.

lol @ 44.

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ATL needs to follow the severance issue closely.

44 - I do not remember the "in 2008" qualification to the "no layoffs" promise."

Too late for a LW 2L to ask to split her summer?

23 - I have not heard about layoffs at Wachtell Lipton.

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ATL needs to follow the severance issue closely.

I hate these contract law suggestions that keep coming up.

So the Latham layoffs are finally happening. What are we watching for next?

"Too late for a LW 2L to ask to split her summer?"

Probably. What other firm would take on another summer at this point, even for half a summer?

Good luck to you.....

34 -

The whole idea w/ the statistics request seems to be for confirming/refuting speculation. I've seen enough comments making disparate claims to know that people have no real clue why firms are doing what they're doing - only vague ideas.

Also . . . I think I've seen poll reporting and other statistical analysis on here before. If no one else seems to be doing it, why not this blog? It certainly would be in the spirit of the current running theme.

@ 23: so basically your family has shit judgment when it comes to picking law firms.

Surprised you haven't ended up at LaTTTham already.

There is no amount of severance you can give that would compensate being the first and only v10 to screw 1st year associates.

If they do that, expect them to rescind offers next.

Re: the conference room situation, it is not just New York.

In Los Angeles, Washington, and Chicago, big blocks of rooms have been reserved by administrative / managerial people.

34 -

The whole idea w/ the statistics request seems to be for confirming/refuting speculation. I've seen enough comments making disparate claims to know that people have no real clue why firms are doing what they're doing - only vague ideas.

Also . . . I think I've seen poll reporting and other statistical analysis on here before. If no one else seems to be doing it, why not this blog? It certainly would be in the spirit of the current running theme.

48, clearly you're a 1L who hasn't taken contracts. The consideration is working at the job for nearly a year.

57 - ATL has done rudimentary surveys, but your request is much more complex. I'd try sending it in to the American Lawyer.

Outsource the statistical analysis to out of work statisticians or lawyers with statistics background. problem solved.

outsource it.

@ 23: so basically your family has shit judgment when it comes to picking law firms.

Surprised you haven't ended up at LaTTTham already.

There is no amount of severance you can give that would compensate being the first and only v10 to screw 1st year associates.

If they do that, expect them to rescind offers next.

what firm announce layoffs ex-ante? of course they have no comment to ATL...

100 layoffs is only about 5% of their associate workforce, not 10%.

L&W still needs to learn how to not suck at this.

Eli, any news on Shearman & Sterling?

How do we know this is about layoffs? Maybe Latham is reserving the conference rooms to announce a "voluntary departure" plan, like Pillsbury?

http://abovethelaw.com/2009/02/pillsburys_voluntary_departure.php

51 - I really thought it was a 2008 only thing. If it wasn't mentioned in the state of the firm speech itself, maybe it was in our office-specific follow-up meeting that ascomm had with associates shortly thereafter?

@ 23: so basically your family has shit judgment when it comes to picking law firms.

Surprised you haven't ended up at LaTTTham already.

There is no amount of severance you can give that would compensate being the first and only v10 to screw 1st year associates.

If they do that, expect them to rescind offers next.

Latham and its "comparables" (e.g., Proskauer) nevertheless will be hedging their bets with sizable summer programs for 2009, particularly if they axe (or, in the case of Proskauer, have laid off) a substantial number of first and second years. If they project a pickup in business by the Fall of 2010, the 2009 summer associate class will receive offers to "replace" the laid off associates, albeit at a more junior level that will weaken the firms overall. If not, there will be a considerable number of non offers to the summers.

57 -- Thirty-four here. I'm pretty sure I know why CWT is having problems. Doesn't take a long mathematical equation to figure out that high leverage in a rapidly declining practice area will result in a significant reduction in associate headcount. Obviously every firm that's laid off isn't CWT, but I think most of them were facing similar problems and have done the bulk of their layoffs to cope with that issue.

And, the "kitty" picture surveys don't involve culling and analyzing statistical data from other sources. They're gimmicks to keep people on this website.

Remember that the ballpark numbers are for "people," not "lawyers."

This could be largely a STAFF layoff.

69: no, his mom has shit judgment when it comes to picking husbands.

At least 23 has a rich Biglaw partner dad to fall back on in this economy.....

I'm so startled right now!

I have it on good authority that Latham is reserving the conference rooms to announce that attorneys at Latham have invented a new financial product that will send the stock market soaring to new heights. This will make the recent stock market bubble seem like child's play.

What does this mean for future salary raises in New York? Does this mean Latham won't move to 190 when the other V10 firms do?

~Fordham 2L

Does anyone know what's going on with Latham's summer programs? They haven't released work dates yet.

23 -- does your dad think this will affect whether (more) partners leave LW now?

72 - I feel bad for them, but I'm praying that these are staff layoffs, staff layoffs, staff layoffs....

U Penn St. is an Ivy League poser, but even joe-pa can't bring prestige to a mediocre law school. U. Penn St. has really gone downhill since U. Penn & Penn St. merged.

for the summer program, we've heard it's 8 weeks - june and july only. not confirmed though.

23, you are inept. Your stepfather who has been out of the business for 6 years is an authority on this? You are in law school. Additionally, you are stupid. Finally, you will never have sex with a woman. Fail.

61 - Isn't that a pre-existing duty? The attorney is already giving his labor in consideration for his pay as part of his initial contract of employment. Going to have to come up with some new consideration for the promise not to lay off.

72--Yeah, keeping telling yourself that as you're called to the corner conference meeting room for a "meeting." Also, Dorothy, just click your heels three times.

An Admin. Asst.

78 -- The internal rumor here at LW is that the summer program will be cut down to 6 weeks, with approximately 60-75% of the class receiving offers.

72 / 80 - Actually, if you are future LW summer or regular associates, shouldn't you WANT these to be lawyer layoffs rather than staff layoffs?

If they get rid of the underperformers now, that makes the firm more stable for when you arrive there.

. . . whilst discussing Lester's separation . . .

Lester Burnham: Then I guess I'll have to throw in a sexual harassment charge.

Brad Dupree: Against who?

Lester Burnham: Against YOU. Can you prove that you didn't offer to save my job if I let you blow me?

Brad Dupree: Man, you are one twisted fuck.

Lester Burnham: Nope; I'm just an ordinary guy who has nothing left to lose.

@ 80

23 here. Not explicitly discussed. But we were talking in terms of firms' overall reputations and whether I'd be advised to interview there. I know the '03 layoff debacle and ensuing bad PR are part of what drove his S&S departure. I really can't go into too much detail since I am disinclined to outpwn family members in ATL comments.

The 2009 summer associates at these firms will be doing a lot of pro bono and "firm memo" work, probably difficult to evaluate for purposes of making permanent offers.

2L here who interviewed at this craphole and turned down offer on the spot. during the callback they all talked about what a fun and humane place it was. it struck me as a poorly managed frat house. i was wright.

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ATL needs to follow the severance issue closely.

so, how many partners quit S&S in 2003? My guess: not many

Ironic that Am Law named Latham the Best Managed firm just 2 yrs ago?

I'm so startled right now!

87 -- Agreed. But as an attorney from another firm looking for a new job, I'd rather not have the already flooded market flooded with even more lawyer resumes.

83, partners who leave firms often move to other firms. The ones that manage to bail on failing firms are usually the rainmakers with portable business.

I envy 23 since I am sure his family can afford to support him if/when the market continues to crap out.

I'd like to hear more from 23's step dad

Well played, 26. Well played indeed.

91 - "wright" indeed. Their loss.

23's ostensible stepfaTTTher aside, the point about severance is obviously correct.

Lathamites, what are the rumors on this?

78/82/86 -- If these are lawyer layoffs, the summer program will likely be canceled in its entirety.

33 - because it won't do anything to change the fact that they'll be fired on FRIDAY.

This is for all the idiots who ranked Latham as more "prestigious" in the Vault survey over firms like Weil, Kirkland, Debevoise and Paul Weiss.

Need a recruiter? Find one at www.nalsc.org.

I'm going to try really hard not to take satisfaction in the idea that the d-bags that i met on my call back at LW NYC might be getting the axe.

You know, the type that puts their feet up on their desk while talking to you, and ask why you think you're "Latham material"

oh noz, invizibul step dadz!

26- AcelaBob rules..The great white whale.

It almost makes me wish I lived up north so I could bump into people like AcelaBob on the train.

AcelaBob to 350lbs!

26- AcelaBob rules..The great white whale.

It almost makes me wish I lived up north so I could bump into people like AcelaBob on the train.

AcelaBob to 350lbs!

Kent Brockman: Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?

Professor: Yes I would, Kent.

Remember that ATL survey from not too long ago that showed Latham as the firm that most other biglaw lawyers would go to if they could? Does nobody remember this?

Amazing how much difference a few months makes.

I actually agree with 106. The Latham DC d-bags that I met were some of the most insufferable people I encountered during law firm interviews.

i got dinged at latham. sad at the time. feels OK now

Peter Gibbons: So I was sitting in my cubicle today, and I realized, ever since I started working, every single day of my life has been worse than the day before it. So that means that every single day that you see me, that's on the worst day of my life.

Dr. Swanson: What about today? Is today the worst day of your life?

Peter Gibbons: Yeah.

Dr. Swanson: Wow, that's messed up

Getting fired as a first- or second-year associate is a career killer. We need to remember the firms that have done so and hope that they are punished in the marketplace for talent once this recession finally ends, whenever that may be.

Isn't choosing a big, big law firm-- which is, chances are, not too dissimilar from other big, big law firms -- based on its avowed "culture" not only naive, but also a bit like choosing a college based on its football team?

This is shaping up to be a big layoff week. Rumor is Sidley is planning a huge layoff as well.

Best of luck to all of the to-be laid off associates at Latham.

Hopefully the economy picks up, and you all land on your feet.

116 - No. It's much easier to evaluate a school's football potential than decipher a firm's "culture."

116 - it all depends. In most big firms there are subcultures within the dominant culture, depending on the partner you work for or the group you're in. Hard to glean from the interview, but you can definitely make a gut judgment (although not entirely informed) after the summer.

94 = Alanis Morissette

it is not just associates and lawyers that are being laid off at firms, support staff are being laid off as well. some have given up more time in their careers at theses firms, then lawyers and associates. so remember they are being cut also.

my 2L buddy just called me - he got a letter today cancelling his summer. he's flipping out. he was to be in the NY office. are they doing this everywhere?

"my 2L buddy just called me - he got a letter today cancelling his summer. he's flipping out. he was to be in the NY office. are they doing this everywhere?"

I have trouble believing that this is not flame intended to scare people.

123 obviously complete bullshit. summers would be the last to go, they would rescind 3L offers first.

Friends don't let friends work at Latham.

acela bob has the best schtick to grace these parts in some time.

no way would they rescind 3L offers before shortening or even canceling the summer program.

I think ATL needs to start announcing the names of trusted employment lawyers/employment law firms. I have a claim or two against my firm and need to speak with someone about it asap.

I've already committed to the idea of not signing away rights for severance payments (hopefully, it wont' come to that, am trying to hold on to job for as long as possible, but am worried).

Do us a favor please--names of reputable employment lawyers!

I heard from my friend who is a sophomore at a good state university. He got a letter from LW advising him not to go to law school.

23, no offence, but you haven't brought anything new to this party. This is your stepfather's insight. One partner, one firm -- and a firm known not to manage well in a downturn (cf. 2002/2003). Many of the more seasoned lawyers here were predicting layoffs back when salaries were being raised, because not all firms can compete at the same compensation levels, and economic indicators were already showing signs of a slowdown. Oh well, at least some people got a little more for a little while. I hope they had the foresight to save a few pennies.

I do not think that EVERY law firm will lay off - many, many, many have and more will. Certainly, whether law firms lay off or not depend on how heavily their practice groups and key clients are in industries that are bearing the brunt of a downturn. It also depends on whether the firm will still get business because of their name (i.e., Cravath will probably be hired in high profile work because big companies will not try to save a buck on many issues) or if they can actually pick up business because they do the same quality work for less (this has been the secret to the success of many mid-Vault 100 firms). It also depends on how profligately they've hired first years and laterals. Some firms will stop hiring, will repurpose, cut costs and manage through the downturn -- those firms will be lucky. Other firms will just have too many down practice areas and down clients and excess headcount to make that work (or simply a partnership that wants to cut rather than share the pain, and that is their prerogative).

I'm not too swayed by the tiny violins coming from first year associates. Yes, it sucks to be laid off, esp. when you have no experience to fall back on and a lot of loans. HOWEVER, this is no different than any other industry where lay-offs are based on LIFO (last in, first out). It's the risk of being the new guy anywhere. AND, you're so junior, you can more easily be repurposed. Take a sixth year associate and try to sell him in a different practice area -- he'll have to go almost to square one in certain cases (hope his mortgage can accommodate it) -- and he's worse off than a new grad, because he costs more and when the market picks up, he'll jump to his original practice area.

123, regrettably, is correct.

Does anyone have any idea if Latham is planning on rescinding 3L offers?

125, how do you know they have not already? It's well known that with massive firm client Lehman evaporating and the general economic situation L&W is in deep poop, even relative to its peers. I don't think its a bad firm, they just got more unlucky than others when Paulson slammed the door on their big client while bailing out others. There is a big musical chairs element to how the industry will shake out.

I can substantiate 123. Just heard from a 2L classmate that someone we know just got informed they were cancelling summer class. I didn't hear from horses' mouth though and don't know how it was communicated to them.

Latham is still a V9 firm.

Don't let this mass layoff and big drop in PPP stuff fool you.

111 - Yes. Thank you for the hilarious reminder. Does anyone also remember that the entire recruiting staff at Latham was on here for the past year trolling for them every day? How the douchey have fallen.

That's right, 29. Sue the bastards. You're entitled to a job for life, right?

I have trouble not believing that 123 = 132 = 135.

131 = law student.

I have it on good authority that all V50 firms are booking conference rooms to announce 100% layoffs in the coming weeks. They are starting with everyone who posts retarded comments on ATL.

My buddy also told me the V10 law schools are starting to layoff law students and rescind offers to incoming students.

141, law schools would be doing them a favor if those students want to do Biglaw.

I heard Latham cancelled every summer associateship offer. And I heard it from a very reliable source.

I love anonymous posting where everyone can just make shit up and then have others read it and think it might actually be true. Fucking hilarious!

5 is a rofl on so many, many levels.

ty, 5...ty

The lawyer staffing model of major firms is undergoing MAJOR change. The model is becoming one of equity partner "owners" contrasted against lawyer "employees." The model is also emphasizing the role and importance of "staff lawyers," or those who provide definite service and value but are not partner track material or who don't want to be on partner track. Going forward the model will be Equity Partners, Staff Lawyers (or Counsel, or whatever you want to call them) and Associates. Some Associates will develop and matriculate up the ranks to become Equity Partners, but many, many more will evolve into a Staff Lawyer career path that pays relatively well and has manageable work/life balance. The harder you work as a Staff Lawyer, then the more bonus potential.

Or in other words, major law firms are moving to the corporate model of employment. Is it a bad thing? I don't think so.

This blog is proof that basic economics should be taught in law schools. Why does everyone sound shocked that all of these layoffs are occurring at all levels? Is it so hard to grasp that basic supply and demand does actually apply to the V10? Is entitlement and narcissism so out of control in biglaw that people have become totally blinded by success? If so, doesn't that mean you are actually quite dumb and deserve a pink slip?

The banks are insolvent, credit has dried up, and the economy is beginning is decent into a Japanese style deflationary death spiral. The economic fundamentals supporting law firm salaries are no stronger than those supporting subdivisions in Phoenix. We are going to be hearing about layoffs for a long time to come. Get those resumes primed for USAJobs.com and get used to it.

The lawyer staffing model of major firms is undergoing MAJOR change. The model is becoming one of equity partner "owners" contrasted against lawyer "employees." The model is also emphasizing the role and importance of "staff lawyers," or those who provide definite service and value but are not partner track material or who don't want to be on partner track. Going forward the model will be Equity Partners, Staff Lawyers (or Counsel, or whatever you want to call them) and Associates. Some Associates will develop and matriculate up the ranks to become Equity Partners, but many, many more will evolve into a Staff Lawyer career path that pays relatively well and has manageable work/life balance. The harder you work as a Staff Lawyer, then the more bonus potential.

Or in other words, major law firms are moving to the corporate model of employment. Is it a bad thing? I don't think so.

141 - epic fail.

Conference room bookings -- brilliant.

#4, but why should ATL leave out the part about the conference room booking system? L&W makes the conference booking public to its attorneys for a reason, and this is the flip side of that reason. Associates are pretty clever, no?

working is not consideration for not being laid off if you are still working the same job and getting the same amount as before.

61, please tell me you were just confused.

Buy canned goods.

Buy canned goods.

Latham Timeline:

December 2008: Salary Freeze
January 2009: Stealth Layoffs
February 2009: Public Layoffs
March 2009: 100% 3L Offer Rescissions
April 2009: Summer Program Cancelled
August 2009: Firm Dissolves

Buy canned goods.

129, ATL doesn't know what city and state you're in. But if you're in Philly, I'd recommend this guy:

http://www.thedogbitelawyer.com/

3L offers will be rescinded next week. Check your mail!

i talked to my friends in the chicago office last year, and they said that all the summers and first years were spending all their time on pro bono because there was no billable work to do. it was unsustainable and you could have seen this coming months ago.

i wouldn't mind a few months of severance though. that would be nice. maybe 12 months? how about 6? i would go to the beach.

3L offers will be rescinded next week. Check your mail!

I understand that the federal government is in discussions to nationalize Latham. The new name will be Latham Obama Watkins.

Conference room bookings can be very revealing. Towards the end of Heller, you could always tell if a partner or group of partners were preparing to depart because a certain partner in firm management (RH) would book a conference room in an office other than his home office.

Thanks, 155. I'm in New York, New York. Big Firm. Real claim.

@129 - Thanks for reminding me that blogs are a good place to get reliable references.

Elie, while you're at it, can you recommend a good proctologist to help 129 get his head out of his ass?

What is the word on the LW attorneys fired during their stealth layoffs? Have any of them had any luck finding new employment?

I'd feel bad for all the 2 and 3Ls headed to Latham but lets face it, if you're headed there you're most likely an unsympathetic douche. The tears just aren't coming.

The lawyer staffing model of major firms is undergoing MAJOR change. The model is becoming one of equity partner "owners" contrasted against lawyer "employees."
__________________________________________

Uhh . . . this has been the staffing model at virtually all law firms for decades. Are you high?

What is the word on the LW attorneys fired during their stealth layoffs? Have any of them had any luck finding new employment?

in most industries, the higher ranked and more prestigious companies pay less than other companies. A recent NY times article, for example, says that Google pays its recruiters less than at comparable firms, but obviously recruiters still flock to work there.
A company only competes on price (salary) when it can't compete in any other metric.

V5 to $120k!

Is Latham done as a leading firm, especially in CA? Chances that it remains in the V20?

166 - in a word "no."

Does anyone know what type of goods we should be buying?

When the actual layoff numbers come out, if Count Layoffula isn't there to tally them up, I swear I'm going to lose it.

145: you moron. we don't need you. go away.

I wouldn't worry about Latham & Watkins attorneys thrown out on the street. Even in these bad economic times L&W associates will land on their feet. To have been hired by L&W in the first place they have outstanding pedigree and other credentials.

It's the poor dumb bastards who get whacked by places like Bryan Cave that are in for hardship and a major adjustment in career path.

What a TTT ... best wishes to those who are screwed by LaTTTham

you are all cooked.

http://endofesq.com/

171: I think Count Layoffula is currently recuperating at a spa in Transylvania, after having collapsed from severe exhaustion recently.

122 - What makes you think that staff are being cut too? They cost the firm on average 1/3 of a first year associate's salary.

here we go again, black thursday (this time with flavor) http://www.blackbooklegal.com

If Latham really sent out letters canceling the summer program, why hasn't anyone submitted them to ATL to be posted yet?

173 - Are you joking? There are no jobs. It doesn't matter if you are at Latham or Bryan Cave or Cravath

If you have any info on the situation in LA (#59 or anyone else) please contact me. amanda_becker@dailyjournal.com or 213-229-5303. We can stay off the record.. the firm is unwilling to comment until after the cuts occur... unless more information comes out. Thx.

What makes you think that staff are being cut too? They cost the firm on average 1/3 of a first year associate's salary.
__________________________________________

And bill 0.

slightly off topic, but does anyone have any information on the less talked about firms- irell, and munger? should one assume no news is good news or are they suffering just the same?

179, that's because those people are lying.

Can't speak for Latham but I know my firm is planning to hire like usual this summer. 2L's are not going to start until late 2010. By most accounts the economy will be on the way to recovery and there should be plenty of work. Actually, our firm has already seen an uptick in the amount of work in the past month or so. Keeping most people pretty busy.

However, I work at a firm that is conservatively managed and has had smaller summer programs the past two summers. Also, we are less leveraged.

184 = 1L hoping that firms buy his bogus economics

Damn, Lat, what do you think we are, idiots? First, you scam that fat guy at Pillsbury with the fake email from "Jen Everest" and now you expect some idiot associate at LW to fall for the "Amanda Becker" contact info at comment 181 and send you some more info.

You can't run the same trick twice in row.

"179, that's because those people are lying."

To be fair, it could be because ATL is slow in posting new information.

But you're probably right about the lying thing.

The firm is done as a major player anywhere if they rescind offers to incoming associates ... watch

182 is clearly not with the program. Paralegals and IT do bill clients for their time. It's the lazy and ancient secretaries that need to be culled as well as the affirmative action non-billers.

182 is clearly not with the program. Paralegals and IT do bill clients for their time. It's the lazy and ancient secretaries that need to be culled as well as the affirmative action non-billers.

Safer firm to be at: Cadwalader or LaTTTham?

129 Best of luck with your employment claims. FYI, firms that go out of business are sometimes slow to pay big judgments.

146 asks:

"Why does everyone sound shocked that all of these layoffs are occurring at all levels? Is it so hard to grasp that basic supply and demand does actually apply to the V10? Is entitlement and narcissism so out of control in biglaw that people have become totally blinded by success?"

Yes.

193, I concur.

-- 1999: Fast-rising Internet stocks will never fall!
-- 2004: Fast-rising home prices will never fall!
-- 2008: Fast-rising crude oil prices will never fall!
-- 2009: Fast-rising top law firm salaries and employment totals will never fall!

What are the options for 2Ls about to summer at Latham and 3Ls about to become associates?

Should they look elsewhere? Even if they keep their jobs, will the firm be significantly less prestigious?

@117 - Office? Practice areas? Class years affected?

tyty

Charlotte School of Law is handling this downturn very well. We placed a record number of students into SA positions this year.

159 - Get a life!

@52

Why ask? Just renege when you find something else.

195, if you're still caring about "prestige" at this point, you've got your head up your ass.

I'd care slightly more about whether my offer was going to be rescinded.

159 - Get a life!

191: Cadwalader. They have had their bloodbath. Latham's bloodbath has just begun.

195, if you're still caring about "prestige" at this point, you've got your head up your ass.

I'd care slightly more about whether my offer was going to be rescinded.

--- oops, 194, not 195. sorry.

Latham Insider here, I have heard rumors that the summer program will not be shortened this year but there will be a few minor changes. Apparently everyone will "telecommute" to work every day from their apartments and will be compensated with 3,077 IOU dollars per week. One happy hour will be coordinated at a partner's house, BYOB and no guests allowed.

159 - Get a life!

there was an article in NLJ today that suggested firms will continue to give fewer offers

http://blackbooklegal.blogspot.com/2009/02/firms-giving-fewer-offers.html

Insider.. the Chief HR Officer is here IN NY getting ready..

Time to clean up my office!!

Hey 131: Last in, first out? That is your brilliant theory regarding layoffs? You've got to be kidding me. It is first a purely economic decision. If an associate is busy, she is safe. If an associate is sitting on her ass, she should be worried. Then comes a small performance review aspect. If the associate is quality, then she might be safe because she could be given the work of the soon to be laid off non-quality associates. You could be a partner or a first year. The same principal applies in this market. If you are not making the firm money and there is no way that you will in the foreseeable future, then you will lose your job. Plain and simple.

@197 - hahahahahahaha.

How is Gibson avoiding all this?

-208

"If an associate is busy, she is safe."

Not necesarily in today's economy. Firms are forecasting for the next couple of years regardless of past performance.

182, 189, secretaries do bill time when they do client work. All the printouts get billed to clients. Partners need secretaries. Latham requires secretaries to do partner billing work as well as normal admin duties. The nonpartner/associates only secretaries already handle 7-10 associates each, and they do bill some time to clients. It's not a lot every day, but there's no way it's zero all the time.

206, stop trolling for that crappy blog.

211: You missed my point. If an associate is busy now, then it makes sense to keep her around. A firm will cut associates until supply equals demand. Unless the firm is projecting a complete shut down of an entire practice group, then the currently busy associates are the ones they will keep around. And it is these associates who will keep busy because the work will continue to flow to them as there are fewer and fewer associates.

117 made that up. im in sidley ny (granted, in litigation) and have heard nothing of the sort.

210: Maybe because they're not as leveraged?

Latham NY: 83 Partners, 293 Associates
Gibson NY: 57 Partners, 125 Associates

-212

"secretaries do bill time when they do client work. All the printouts get billed to clients"

This is why the BIGLAW model is failing. If any law firm billed secretary time to me they will be fired. When you go to a restaurant, do you expect to get billed for the paper that has the bill on it?

can anyone confirm that LW will rescind summer associate offers?

195 -- I hope, for the sake of your sanity, that the comment about "prestige" was a joke.

196 and 215, wait and see. it's coming. soon.

218 - confirmed.

211, I didn't miss your point.

Associates that billed 2,000 hours+ have been cut in the last few weeks, I know of at least 3 that are in that department.

What about summer associate offers --Gibson?

217 - I suspect that secretarial time billed to clients is often written off depending on the amount of the bill

111-

I would still love to work for Latham if they had an office in my city. So they're having layoffs. Doesn't mean it won't still be a great place to work in [6 months/a year/two years] when things pick up again.

Full disclosure: I'm tax, so (i) my job would be pretty safe and (ii) not too many shops do tax as well as the folks at Latham.

217 = loser who got kicked out of RealLaw and had to grab an in-house position. He knows firsthand what it means to be fired.

the rescinding summer offers is bullshit. There is enough bad shit going on for real that assholes on here are flaming away.

221 -- details??

I'll be an SA at Latham this summer and while I'm not taking talk of offers being rescinded seriously, I am really upset to learn that there's talk of the summer program being reduced to 6-8 weeks. I really, really hope Latham doesn't go that route.

I'm having a hard time not believing that:

218 = 221 = 228 = original rescinding offers rumor poster

Those of you saying you feel no sympathy because "people at Latham are douches" are really quite something.
Lots of us chose this place specifically because the douche index seemed lower than at peer firms. We could debate that all day; the fact that you jeer at people who are about to be laid off through no fault of their own cements who is the greater douche.

People are not facing these layoffs for incompetence or laziness. There is simply not enough work to go around, despite everyone's sincerest efforts. Its a layoff, it sucks, and I hope it never happens to you in spite of the nasty way you look at things.

213, I know the bloggers on that site. They are just getting started like every other blog on the web. They are, after all, just students writing about ideas. By the way, they are the first blog to post this NLJ story (even before ATL) of firms rescinding offers. How much you wanna bet that ATL matches by the end of the day?

222: They may have billed that in the past, but how are things now? And are they in a practice group that is busy or slow? And how were their reviews? And then i would ask how they are compared to their peers? Were others billing 2500+ in the past while these associates were only billing 2000? That says something. . . The point is that it did not make economic sense for the firm to continue to employ those laid off associates. A profitable associate in the past could very easily be an unprofitable associate right now. "Right now" is the controlling time frame, not the past.

amen 231

217 - forgot to say, clients are not billed for paper. They are billed for the time it takes secretaries to assemble the printouts but as I said, I suspect secretarial time is written off on large bills.

I will let you in on a little secret. Most law firms are using this time to fire associates who were not going to make partner. Firms are not so short sighted that will fire a rising star that is a little slow. Law firms that are firing associates irrespective of their past evaluations, are desperate and are probably going to go bankrupt.

232, I read that NLJ this morning and it says absolutely nothing about law firms rescinding offers. It simply talks about the fact that there are fewer summer associate offers this past fall, 3L recruiting sucks, permanent offers went down from 93% to 90% (OH NO!!!), and the acceptance rate of those full time offers went up three percent.

Nothing new at all was in that article.

I have a question. How do we know the supposed number of people affected, or when the supposed list of the condemned will be delivered to the partnership? Is that based on any observable evidence (akin to the conference room booking) or is it from the tipster? Or is ATL just guessing?

How has Milbank, a firm with a massive finance practice, managed to avoid mass layoffs? Can someone at the firm chime in. How dead is it over there?

I have a question. How do we know the supposed number of people affected, or when the supposed list of the condemned will be delivered to the partnership? Is that based on any observable evidence (akin to the conference room booking) or is it from the tipster? Or is ATL just guessing?

I agree with 239. Can anyone comment on how things are over at Milbank?

183 -- no news is good news re irell, munger. these firms have low leverage and are primarily litigation; in irell's case, primarily ip litigation.

Can someone please explain to me the history behind all the Latham-haters out there? I don't get it - seems like another CA firm with massive financial sector exposure that is trying to cope with the situation - and yet there is almost no sympathy. I am not a lawyer, so just curious. My wife works for the firm - and in all honesty they seemed like a great group of people when she interviewed - fun individuals, not too high strung, but definetely very smart people. So why all the hate?

what about Sullivan & Worcester????

LW has not rescinded summer offers. The SA may be the bulk of the "replacements" in 2010 for those being laid off now, if business picks up and the firm survives.

245: will they be reducing the length of the SA program?

"Can someone please explain to me the history behind all the Latham-haters out there?"

Myself personally, it's because they dinged me.

Latham 2Ls and 3Ls: I don't blame any of you for worrying about your offers. However, you are partially to blame, since you drank too much of the Latham "we're nice" drivel during OCI/last summer and did not do enough research before accepting to realize that the firm over-relied on its two biggest clients, Lehman and Bear, both of which have ceased to exist.

"Can someone please explain to me the history behind all the Latham-haters out there?"

Mostly just because of how hyped it was in the last few years as the greatest place to work.

UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE joe pa UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE joe pa UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE joe pa UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE joe pa UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE joe pa UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE joe pa UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE joe pa UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE joe pa UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE joe pa UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE UPENN STATE joe pa UPENN STATE

When a biglaw firm tries to sell itself as “nice,” “cool” or “laid-back” it’s a clear indication that the firm is full of insufferable douches. Not to mention dishonest.

"Can someone please explain to me the history behind all the Latham-haters out there?"

Because they were always more hype than substance. (I say this having worked across them on numerous occasions)

246, that's as yet unclear, although we've heard other firms are likely to shorten their programs to 8 weeks or so because of the lack of substantive work and a concern that having most SA sitting around for more extended periods without much to do other than pro bono won't do much for the firm's reputation. More that than an economic concern.

Up next, CSM with their record breaking 25% PPP drop.

At least UMichigan State has a decent basketball team.

239, 241--don't know personally, but three possibilities:
1. their bankruptcy department probably has shielded the firm to a large extent, especially given their role in lehman.
2. the firm's partners are nicer than most and willing to bear a certain dip in PPP instead of resorting to layoffs
3. the firm's better than latham at keeping its skeletons in the closet.

Milbank (and Sidley, and Willkie) are MANAGED better than Latham has been, than Shearman, than White and Case etc.

they keep their clients diversified, they readily take hits to their PPP to keep the ship afloat, and they generally are doing better than their peers. thats not to say milbank and co wont have to fire ppl- they will- but it wont be as gobsmackingly drastic as latham or any of the other shitshows.

"However, you are partially to blame, since you drank too much of the Latham "we're nice" drivel during OCI/last summer and did not do enough research before accepting to realize that the firm over-relied on its two biggest clients, Lehman and Bear, both of which have ceased to exist."
- I may be guilty of a little Koolaid drinking during interviews, but if I had known in September of 2007 that Lehman and Bear were going to blow up, I sure as hell wouldn't be headed to biglaw.

LW is in big trouble. This bleeding needs to work, but may not be enough. They've already let go of so many and are eliminating a whole lot more. Not sure if lay offs will be enough to save the great Latham. This is looking a lot like what happened to Brobeck in the 90s.

225, stfu.

248: You forgot to mention that they were all probably seduced by the flimsy USB "card" thing they gave out as swag at OCI. By the way, that card (a) didn't work well and (b) didn't fit in my wallet.

i turned down SA offers from three peer firms in favor of Latham and am feeling highly stupid right now. Would it make any sense to contact those three firms and inquire as to whether or not they would let me make a "late acceptance" of their offers?

Also, anybody know what the 3L hiring market will be like this fall? Thanks!

People keep asking about GDC. Obviously, you have to figure that LW and GDC are mirror images and hurt for one means the other is in trouble. Everything at GDC is copacetic, according to managment pie charts. People might loose their 1K "marketing" personal slush funds, and retreats are cancelled, but that's small beer given the unfolding armageddon we read about here. How are they doing this? Lower leverage, possibly. One major reason is simply that two of GDC's biggest clients did not implode last year like LW's. So It could be luck. But check back in July when the place is crawling with idle summer associates.

261: that thing (which broke after I used it 4 times) is a perfect example of the firm being more hype and marketing than substance.

Looks like poor Roxana will soon have some company in the breadline:

http://abovethelaw.com/2009/02/notes_from_the_breadline_4.php

The ship be sinking...

262 -- 3L hiring market? LOLLLLLLLLLLL

262 -- 3L hiring market? LOLLLLLLLLLLL

262

There is no way another firm will allow you to accept a offer in February that you declined in November. Just won't happen in 2009.

There will be NO 3L market next Fall.

Peace. out.

262 - I'm in the same situation, but no, you cannot call other firms. They don't want you, and you've already made a commitment to Latham. Live with your decision, work hard this summer, and get an offer.

Latham was hiring like CRAZY a couple of years back when I got out of law school. Asking summers to collect resumes from their classmates and giving callbacks based simply on a good recommendation. They were also giving offers w/out as much as looking at transcripts and having people go in for callbacks and meet w/ one partner and 2 associates. Great for those getting hired at the time but alas the time has come when all those people are no longer necessary. Despite the laid-back west-coast, frat vibe, at least in NY and Chicago people were known to pull multiple all nighters a week and bill 2500+ working with structured products and finance. Of course it sucks to have to cut the cord but I bet the partners don't feel so bad having made 800K-1 million bucks a year off those associates for 3-4 years before getting rid of them. Poor management, but partners definitely did get rich over the last couple of years.

270, have you heard anything about start dates or summer length?

262, your biggest mistake was believing that LW was a peer firm of Cleary, STB, DPW, or whoever.

Bobby Jindal here with a Republican response and saying many of you listening tonight have lost jobs. Others have seen your college and retirement savings dwindle. Many of you are worried about losing your health care and your homes. And you are looking to your elected leaders in Washington for solutions. The strength of America, however, is not found in our government. It is found in the compassionate hearts and the enterprising spirit of our citizens. So good luck.

248: Latham is (was) top dog in CA. How the hell were we supposed to know that Lehman and Bear Stearns were over-relied upon, and how the hell were we supposed to know that they would go down?

There were a lot more reasons than just the culture to pick Latham 12 months ago. It's not like it would be altogether surprising if Gibson were the one floundering right now.

Stop hating and talking out of your ass.

273, believe me, i know that now.

Any word on how many partners are getting the boot?

Nevermind, I forgot for a minute that the firm couldn't care less about their associates and staff.

248: Latham is (was) top dog in CA. How the hell were we supposed to know that Lehman and Bear Stearns were over-relied upon, and how the hell were we supposed to know that they would go down?

There were a lot more reasons than just the culture to pick Latham 12 months ago.

Stop hating and talking out of your ass. The economy is going to come for you too soon.

278, I hear ya BRAH!

*High five*

Let's get Wasted

*Pops collar and does kegstand*

It makes complete sense that GDC is in much better shape. They are a completely different animal

1. Their leverage is MUCH lower than Lathams. When there isn't much work that is a huge difference between GDC and Latham. Just many less mouths to feed.

2. More focused on litigation. Much more so than Latham. GDC's litigation practices are flourishing.

3. Much smaller Real Estate Group. GDC's real estate group only makes up about 5% of the firm.

280, hindsight is 20/20

To All LaTTTam ASSociates: The goods news is that we fired all the DEADWOOD ASSociates earlier this year. The bad news is that because President NOBAMA is such a fuck-up, we are now having to layoff some good ASSociates. The good news is that now that you are out of a job and cannot pay your mortgage you will be eligible for taxpayer sponsored payment assistance with your mortgages and COBRA payments.

It makes complete sense that GDC is in much better shape. They are a completely different animal

1. Their leverage is MUCH lower than Lathams. When there isn't much work that is a huge difference between GDC and Latham. Just many less mouths to feed.

2. More focused on litigation. Much more so than Latham. GDC's litigation practices are flourishing.

3. Much smaller Real Estate Group. GDC's real estate group only makes up about 5% of the firm.

282 = typical LaTTTham douche

Just got out of 8 month coma, is Latham still prestigious and committed to no layoffs?

284 = fired DEADWOOD ASSociate

Does anyone know exactly how much of Latham's revenue Bear and Lehman provided? I'm trying to get a better sense of what people mean when they say that these were big clients.

I know that GDC makes a big deal about how their top clients are still not more than 2 percent of their revenue (except maybe one or two that were 3-4 percent).

Latham associate here:

Could this whole thing have been handled any worse? I seem to remember the higher-ups touting we were the best-managed firm in the universe. Would you please just do the axing tomorrow and get it over with so that the suspense is done with and people - both fired and not - can get back to a semblance of normal lives.

The feeling at Latham reminds me of the movie Titanic. You're standing on deck seeing those that got out earlier sail away on their lifeboats while realizing there are no lifeboats left. You think to yourself, "Uh-oh, guess I have to hope this bad boy stays afloat," while you have a sinking feeling about it....

285, No.

Gibson Dunn has zero debt, a cash reserve of over $100 million, and a 2:1 leverage ratio (compared to 3:1 to 4.5:1 for most large firms). And despite that low leverage their PPP still bested Latham this year.

People were led to believe that LW was well managed because it gave associates a voice in some management decisions by creating a plethora of redundant committees. Unlike Munger, where associates actually have an equal vote in all decisions not relating to compensation, Latham's model of associate involvement was clearly a ruse that its deluded associates happily bought into. Anyhow, it's now clear that "associate involvement" is not a proper metric to assess how well a firm is managed. Better to work at an opaque firm with good financials and competent managers than an allegedly transparent one run by partners determined to grow at all costs, damn the consequences.

266 -- need to send some love out for the Micheal Ray reference (except you misspelled your name).

Q: What do you think is happening to the team? MICHEAL RAY: The ship be sinking.
Q How far can it sink?
MICHEAL RAY: Sky's the limit

275/278: Bear happened in March 2008; Lehman happened in September 2008.
For 2Ls, all of the information was known to them before/during OCI. For 3Ls, they knew all this before they accepted their summer offers, leaving ample opportunity to explore clerkships or other options. I know that I spent about 2 hours total on Lexis during OCI to research who my finalists' major clients were, and avoided any firms that relied too heavily on any one client or industry. All I am saying is that the information was available to anyone who took time to research Latham. Just as people would partially blame one who buys a car solely based on "oh look, that car is shiny and the salesman was nice," I think Latham summers should take part of the blame.-248

It's very telling that management has not corrected this posting. If this were incorrect, they would have quickly cleared it up.

Layoffs are definitely going down, and they'd be much better served to just get them done with tomorrow. Enormous fuckup, Latham. Be humane and just put the associates out of their misery tomorrow. Don't leave these poor bastards wondering until Friday. Then again, they might actually need that extra day's salary.

Latham is doomed. No matter what course of action they take it will be nothing more than rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

237, if that's true then why did Elie post the same thing (4 hours later)

So 292, who ended up being the best rounded firm?

259, Brobeck dissolved in early 2003, not the 90s. 2000 was their biggest PPP year. After the dot-com crashed in 2001, in 2002 partners and associates were bailing by the truckload. They all found other law firms to bail to except a few in San Francisco who joined Morgan Lewis and started a MLB office. There was no firm loyalty because all the partners found other jobs. Where could the Latham partners (and associates) bail to today when all the biglaw firms are hurting?

273 you're right. Latham is superior to, and not a peer of, all of the firms you mentioned. Yours truly, Lord & Lady Dbag

Sooooo glad I picked GDC over LW...

Doomed? Please. They overhired and now they are getting lean. Latham will remain an elite firm whether you like it or not.

Sooooo glad I picked GDC over LW...

Anyone who says GDC is doing well clearly does not work at GDC. Ask anyone in its RE or Corp departments. There have already been stealth layoffs and word is a larger more formal round is in the works....

I love this website and the fucktards who make comments on it.
The notion that a firm like Latham is going to go under is moronic. Anyone suggesting that as a serious possibility is probably a law student or a young associate who (1) doesn't know shit and (2) was dinged by Latham.
Since I fit both of the former categories, I guess I might as well join the rest of the dumb asses out there.. here I go...
"I heard Latham rescinded all of its summer offers..."
"Latham is definitely doomed.. everyone who works there is going to die and burn in hell..."
On second thought, maybe I'm writing like another fucktard when, in actuality, Latham is going to lean up and continue to be a major power in law.
I love this website!

"Doomed? Please. They overhired and now they are getting lean. Latham will remain an elite firm whether you like it or not. "

Doomed might be an overstatement, but this response sounds more than a tad defensive.

302 - I work there. Never heard about stealth layoffs. What office? Also, never heard about formal rounds of layoffs either. Where did you hear that? Chuck Woodhouse just gave a presentation last week and they were pretty clear that that wasn't an option right now.

Where is the post on the stealth layoffs at GDC?
I have heard about it from quite a few people.

- 208: "If an associate is busy, she is safe."

This is absolutely false. Being busy is a factor, but it does not provide security in any way by itself. Some firms are laying off based on guesses as to where revenues will be months from now, or which clients will be able to pay this year, which may be very different than today. Some firms are just cutting their highest costs because they're having trouble making office rent this month.

There is also the political angle - these layoffs give department heads full political cover to get rid of anyone they just plain don't like, for whatever reason. This may have nothing to do with the person's competence or level of work.

303- That is true. Major lawfirms like Latham have never gone under. That would just be ridiculous.

189 Posted by guest | Permalink
Wednesday, February 25, 2009 1:24 PM

182 is clearly not with the program. Paralegals and IT do bill clients for their time. It's the lazy and ancient secretaries that need to be culled as well as the affirmative action non-billers.
__________________________________________

Paralegals and IT don't bill what even a 1st year does on their first day--including the "affirmative action non-billers."

Good luck with the job market---I'm sure that with that community college associates degree in Paralegal studies under your belt, you'll be just fine!

I turned down offers from the New York Yankees and Cirque du Soleil to work for Latham. Now I feel buyers remorse.

it's trench warfare out there pal. you win some, you lose some, but you keep fighting. most of these harvard types, don't add up to dog shit. give me guys who are poor, smart, and hungry. and no feelings. if you need a friend, buy a dog.

I turned down offers from the New York Yankees and Cirque du Soleil to work for Latham. Now I feel buyers remorse.

use of the word "fucktard" is prohibited at Bushwood, Sir. YouoooHoo BABOON!

303, you are retarded. Why don't you go down the hall and ask the senior most partner to name the 5 most prestigious firms from when he was in law school. Guess what, only CSM and S&C are still around. Elite firms that are "unsinkable" do go under.

Layoffs at GDC, and at all firms, are either going on or inevitable. With no work why keep the fat?

Latham 6th year associate here, just to clear of a few things up:

1) neither Lehman nor BS were Latham's biggest clients. In fact they are not even particularly close.

2) Lehman and BS made up about 45 million in Latham revenue in 2007 (combined less than several of their biggest clients).

3) Latham does not bill secretarial time.

4) Latham has not rescinded summer offers.

5) Latham has not rescinded 3L offers.

It sucks that we are laying people off, but the firm will be fine in the long run. Now go ahead and flame away.

316, shouldn't you be polishing up the old resume?

exit visas are imminent. i don't want you losing your place in line. this is your wake-up call pal. go to work.

316, Latham does indeed require secretaries to enter all their billable time. Do you know for certain that clients never get billed for it?

316, 3L hopefully headed to Latham later this year or in 2010, whatever the case may be. Thank you for your post... for whatever it's worth, it's managed to calm the nerves of more than a few former LW summers.

Let me tell you a little story. I once knew a guy who could have been a great golfer, could have gone pro, all he needed was a little time and practice. Decided to go to college instead. Went for four years, did pretty well. At the end of his four years, his last semester he was kicked out... You know what for? He was night putting, just putting at night with the fifteen-year-old daughter of the Dean... You know who that guy was Danny?

316: Your firm's problem isn't the demise of Bear and Lehman. Latham's problem is that it depends, more than any other law firm, on debt capital markets work. That work is now gone, as governments (led by the US) are borrowing up all the money in existence (and then some), and in the process crowding out private borrowers.

Save yourself. This won't end well. The doors get crowded near the end.

Brilliant, 318! Keep Gekko alive!

Layoffs & WaTTTkins

316, thanks for that info. any news as to length of the SA program?

302, listen to 305. GDC is not ready to drop the hammer anytime soon. Yes, corp and related practices are down, and, obviously RE, and some clients stil have "checks in the mail," but there is no crisis here. No schadenfreude intended---my heart goes out to friends and strangers at LW and other places, even the douches.

Layoffs & WaTTTkins! LMAO

MEET ME IN NEW YORK, IT'S GOIN DOWN!!!

MEET ME IN LA, IT'S GOIN DOWN!!!!!!!!

MEET ME IN SF, IT'S GOIN DOWN!!!!!!!!

ANYWHERE YOU MEET ME GUARANTEED TO GO DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

I hear Jacoby and Meyers is hiring...

329 - yeah but only HYS Law review types...

329 - but only HYS law review....

Most partners will be nice guys if it doesn't cost them anything. When it comes to crunch time it's usually throw momma from the train.

And I looked and behold, a pale horse. And his name set on him was death. And hell followed with him.

308 - You're kidding, right? We've seen the mighty fall -
Heller and Thelen were once very successful firms. Any firm, just as any company, can fall in the right climate and if it made the wrong decisions.

LAYOFFS?!?! Don't talk about -- LAYOFFS?? You kidding' me LaTTTham??? LAYOFFS???????

183 - they are doing well. No layoff.

I am keeping a running tally of the attorneys on Latham's website. On 1/28 there were 2075. Today there are 2114. That's an increase of 39, or about 2% in one month. WTF?

Before you dumbasses accuse me of miscounting. I didn't count each name. Go to the attorney search page. Click "search" without entering anything, or selecting anything. It will return a list of all attorneys. Right now it says "Found 2114 results. Displaying items 1 - 15." That's how I know there are 2114 attorneys today.

Hey Mora buy a decent suit will ya? You can't come in here looking like this. Go to Morty Sills, tell him I sent you.

91- " ...I was wright.' "Wright," really? I don't mind blog typos, but this a little over the top for a would be lawyer. I could understand one quickly typing "write" instead of "right," but, "wright" is just WRONG! I'd suggest you check your resume for any such typos.

Word has it that Latham associates being laid off will be given 2 days to leave - I don't believe the firm wants any disgruntled employees returning to work over any grace period. I believe this will also apply to those laid off in January for "performance-related reasons". So please be prepared. Good luck. When a window closes another will open. Hang in there.

337 - they add people to the website as they are admitted to the bar, so those people were more likely recently-admitted to the bar than recently-hired.

302 - I work at GDC. My corporate friends have nothing to do but litigation, but they're still here. Who was laid off? If the downturn lasts into 2010, we'll probably see layoffs. But the firm is well positioned to withstand 2009. Having no debt and low leverage goes a long way. I've heard no rumors of layoffs, stealth or otherwise. And, I'm SO glad I work here.

I'm a 5th year at a BigLaw firm ,currently doing restructuring work. Had a college roommate who took a couple of years off to do Peace Corps-type service and later, after law school (Ivy), started at a large NYC firm. He was laid off 2 months ago as a second year but was quickly able to secure a position with a much smaller midtown litigation-oriented firm where he's been pulling long hours but working on interesting matters. Making less money than he was, but seemingly comfortable with where he's at and whom he's working with. Wondering who is better off. There's obviously another world out there, and I'm not sure it's not a better one.

For a GOOOOOD time call Amanda Becker at 213-229-5303.

208: You misunderstood me. Of course, firms are paying attention to who is light on work and who is not. They also will look at who are good performers. And their first cut decisions will certainly reflect workload and performance -- but those cuts may often not be deep enough, as many have told you here. Some firms are projecting slowdowns and making tough decisions now (though why they wouldn't wait to bleed busy associates dry, I don't know).

So, a first year who is busy (and has the prospects to be busy in the future) is in a better position than a slow second year. It was NOT my point that lay-offs should go by LIFO. My point was that there's a belief amongst law students and first years that laying off any first year associate is the worst atrocity that a firm could commit. (Cue the tiny violins, the rending of garments, etc.) Which is B.S., because no other industry gets as up in arms about getting rid of the new guy. In no other industry is the new guy treated as the most sacred of all of the workforce.

I almost feel like 23's stepdad doesn't really feel that way either, but commisserated with his stepson because it seemed the kinder thing to do.

-131

Crack each others' heads open...Feast on the goo...That is all.

As a non-Lathamite who reviewed Latham's recent financials, I can vouch for 316's numbers 1 and 2: BS and Lehman weren't Latham's biggest clients, even at the height of the credit bubble.

I'm surprised no one has pointed this out, but maybe firms are on different schedules for this . . . . But at my firm, we received the link to fill out the Vault survey today -- exquisite timing.

As a 2L who accepted Latham over several other V10 firms, I agree that I deserve some of the blame for getting myself in this mess. I suspected that Latham was not doing well financially, but I really did like everyone I met there much more, and, as someone who wasnt sure if they wanted to settle in NY, D.C., or somewhere on the west coast (LA or SF), I liked that the firm had large, central offices in all of those cities. Gibson also fit that bill, but I didn;t think I could work somewhere so conservative. So, I believed what I wanted to believe. I believed that Latham would go thorugh a rough patch, but that they would weather the storm fairly easily, and that by the time I showed up for work this summer (or at least in 2010) all would be back to normal. Wishful thinking. I'm kicking myself.

183 - Irell had a huge year. A $350M contingency fee came in from some work several years back. A lot was bonused out to associates and staff (secretaries there for ten years received a bonus equal to their annual compensation), but a lot was still left for the partners. Look for them to have the no 1 or 2 PPP this year.
GDC v LW - In addition to the other comments about lack of leverage and other things, Gibson's rates are higher than Latham's. Pretty simple math, if your rates are 10% higher than someone elses, your revenue per attorney will instantly be 10% higher.

I just filled out the Vault survey. Gave Latham a 1 and dinged Cravath with a 5 for ruining everyone's bonus (except Skaddenites').

Note to law students: this is exactly how ridiculous and unfounded the Vault numbers are. I also rated a ton of firms about which I know absolutely nothing, generally dinging all of them (though not as badly as I dinged Latham).

Yet another firm that makes a fatal mistake...

The legal community never forgets....

WE WILL NEVER FORGET

(and for that idiot above saying that it's no big deal to lay off first years (it's plain inhumane)... he should know that law school students and the talented first years they managed to hire NEVER forget either. Good luck recruiting talent in the future, Latham.)

- V5/T5

349, unfortunately layoffs are inevitable in all areas of this brave new world. Except perhaps in some areas of litigation. LW appears to be acting in a more timely fashion than some of its peers, so who knows? Last year, ATL and law students would not de-mouth LW cock for anything in the world... and now they're all acting like spurned lovers.

351-when does the new vault ranking come out? I'm very curious.

352, you're out of your mind. People will take any job they can get in this climate -- ANY JOB -- and so worrying about your "ability to recruit talent in the future" is a laughably outdated and irrelavent consideration at this point. It's kind of like worrying about having shiny electronic typewriters -- kind of pointless at this stage of the game.

Lemmings need to realize -- once firms understand that they can do just as well, and get just as good people coming in the door, without the outdated, bloated summer associate model, firms are going to start forgetting so much about prestige points and start running themselves like businesses. Businesses worry about bottom lines, not prestige points.

In law the bottom line is influenced by prestige

314 and 334,
You are right to note that powerhouse firms (both in law and other industries) have gone under.
BUT, because that has happened in the past does not mean that Latham is in any real danger. Your suggestion that other powerhouses have fallen means Latham will fall only demonstrates your stupidity.
The fact that Latham has (1) frozen salaries and (2) plans to make layoffs which allegedly may account for as much as 5% of their work force (although only time will tell if the number is that high) presents no where near sufficient evidence to suggest any real likelihood that Latham will go under. Partners still made 1.7 million on average last year!
If you need a quick review, go back and read up on how powerhouse firms like Brobeck have gone under. What you will learn is that while Latham is facing difficult times (like the rest of the world), its actions do not present real warning signs of the firm going under. Rather, its actions clearly demonstrate that some of its practice areas have been hit hard by the economic climate and it is making difficult choices just like everyone else.
I wish anyone who is laid off from Latham, or any other firm for that matter, all the best of luck in finding a new job.
But I also wish that people like 314 and 334 would stop making idiotic claims that ring to the tone of false hysterics.

314 and 334,
You are right to note that powerhouse firms (both in law and other industries) have gone under.
BUT, because that has happened in the past does not mean that Latham is in any real danger. Your suggestion that other powerhouses have fallen means Latham will fall only demonstrates your stupidity.
The fact that Latham has (1) frozen salaries and (2) plans to make layoffs which allegedly may account for as much as 5% of their work force (although only time will tell if the number is that high) presents no where near sufficient evidence to suggest any real likelihood that Latham will go under. Partners still made 1.7 million on average last year!
If you need a quick review, go back and read up on how powerhouse firms like Brobeck have gone under. What you will learn is that while Latham is facing difficult times (like the rest of the world), its actions do not present real warning signs of the firm going under. Rather, its actions clearly demonstrate that some of its practice areas have been hit hard by the economic climate and it is making difficult choices just like everyone else.
I wish anyone who is laid off from Latham, or any other firm for that matter, all the best of luck in finding a new job.
But I also wish that people like 314 and 334 would stop making idiotic claims that ring to the tone of false hysterics.

what are some big firms that have gone under (other than Heller/Thelen/Brobeck)? Just curious, don't know much about the legal market/history

352: The legal community doesn't forget. But it is no more inhumane to lay off a first year than it is to lay off a good performer (not deadweight) that's a 5th year. Oh, yes, the 1st year is so fresh and new and full of debt. The 5th year has about the same debt, is locked into a practice group, maybe he has a mortgage and maybe he has a kid. Everyone has a sad story. (Spend a few years trying to first years and then tell me how all of them are special and precious. Some are. Most aren't. Regardless of law school.)

If you're still quoting your law school, you're pretty junior. I lived this before. I came out of law school in '02, and by luck alone chose a firm that didn't lay off anyone. Many in my T10 class got delayed start dates, never got to go to work, or were laid off in the first year. My spouse (T5) was laid off by a huge firm (now a repeat offender on the lay-off front) and could not find another job for over a year. I worked through a couple slow years worrying if I would keep my job.

I have never forgotten which firms laid off in '02/'03, and I warned people against those firms here and in real life. If management has made that decision before, it probably will again. But in the not-so-long term, it doesn't matter. In a couple of years, law students will see a big name, high Vault ranking, BS about atmosphere and reputation and will completely discount that layoffs occurred there in the past. Because they are special and no one would ever fire them! They said it was such an open and collegial atmosphere, and hey, the free swag was great!

It's a big deal to lay off anyone, but it's not that much worse if it's a first year. The layoffs suck at any level. And the faux "performance related" ones are even worse, b/c that is a false blemish on the reputation of a perfectly good lawyer.

- the "idiot"

Just remember, assuming layoffs go down as rumored, Latham will be the first of its peers (and I don't even mean V10, I mean LA firms like GDC or OMM) to do all of the following:

(1) Freeze salaries
(2) Do Layoffs
(3) Fire 1st Years

LOL

At least they're not asking for voluntary departures. Everyone deserves 26 weeks of unemployment and severance.

362- You don't know that. Nobody knows exactly what LW is planning for Friday

I am a Latham second year and I am disgusted at the poor handling of this situation. I really thought they'd learn something after all the terrible PR and low morale surrounding the stealth layoffs. WTF Latham?

Is Latham even a V25 after this?

Stay positive latham

Stay positive latham

- 211

You are correct, I would have billed at least 240 hrs this month and I still got the boot at my firm. At the lower levels we are considered fungible, and there is no reason the work cannot be spread among those that remain. And no one has given me anything other than excellent reviews.....though admittedly at my level there is not much I could really screw up.

Skadden of West Coast --- TTT

350 - Revenue per lawyer will not automatically be 10% higher than another firm. Firms don't have the same exact number of attorneys. Maybe you should go back to first grade and learn basic math principles.

365- They probably will be. They definitely shouldn't be

I have heard from an airtight source that Latham is cutting the oxygen levels in associates' offices as a cost saving measure

Worked on a deal across from Latham in Q3 08. They did a good job for their client, were relatively easy to work with, but they billed the SHIT out of a relatively small matter. Clearly they've been slow for some time. Still, I have a lot of law school friends there and am worried for them.

We know who you posters are.......

374 - I take it you aren't enjoying this thread? Would you mind letting us all know who "we" refers to?

374 - you're an idiot.......

Have read all the sob stories.....being in law practice for over 20 years may I ask you this:
Where did you get your degrees? You all sound like spoiled, immature brats. Take it like a real man or woman. Wanda Sykes told you what you had to do. "Collect that unemployment check, go to the cash checking that is right next to the liquor store and stand on line just like everyone else that is currently unemployed...ha, ha, ha Oh, and by the way, I have had the same secretary for over 30 years and I can tell you this, they are the ones that show you guys the ropes when you first enter into practice. You don't even know how to use the photocopy machine or how to fill out all those complex forms, never mind understand entering timesheets or billing? Forget about using the computer. You usually mess up the documents the secretaries created, Secretaries are part of the fabric of law firms putting up with you arrogant, wet behind the ears bird brains. I'd rather keep my secretary than one of you pretentious Ivy League types. By the way, my secretary holds a Bachelors Degree....they get paid well.

I'm terrified

377 - kill self.

Just found out OMM is going this week too... brace yourselves.

377 - Why have you had a secretary for over 30 years when you have only been in practice over 20 years? I assume you have not been in practice for 30 years, otherwise you would have so indicated. Did you have a secretary when you were in law school? Did she take class notes for you? That must have been convenient. That probably explains why you write like a child with a 5th grade reading level even though you are such an experienced attorney (According to your post). Anyway, thanks for your post. It was entertaining nonetheless.

Any word on severance?

377 = Toolbox who probably didn't have the credentials to get hired by a firm in the V100

377 = legal assistant who's sick of listening to spoiled attorneys.

I don't type. Just dictate. Sorry if my composition was not up to par......I thought I was writing to dimwits...yikes....wrote it on their level.

The 30 was a typo....ooops...my secretary was not available....ha, ha, ha

I'm with 377, how dare you guys enter a completely new profession without having mastered all of the menial tasks that the staff have perfected after hours of toiling, mindless drudgery? Why I can photocopy four landscaped charts onto two-sided velo bound paper, portrait oriented, and staple it with two deft index finger movements. You and your worthless $160,000 JDs come into MY HOUSE and DON'T KNOW SHIT and want to tell me what to do??? I own this copy room. I teach you how to fax. I show you how to where the extra paper is. ONLY I KNOW WHERE TO FIND THE RED PENS. No matter how many years you spent in school, no matter how "prestigious" you are, no matter your income - I WILL ALWAYS BE THE GOD OF YOUR SUPPORT SERVICES!

And thou shalt respect me.

Never forget the time the young associate received a message from his secretary....it was from the SEC. The message conveyed a note that he did not file on time. He told his secretary "I'll say I never got the message." The smart, astute secretary kept a copy of the message. You know what transpired? The attorney got fired, secretary is still employed.

380 -- what's your source on OMM layoffs?

I'm not worried about Latham -- are they too big now for their client roster? Yes, but that doesn't mean some cutting won't fix the problem. Latham has a great bankruptcy practice that will provide a revenue floor for the firm (and spin-off work), and their projects group (top-notch) will be one of the first finance dependent areas to get back in the game.

moral of the story: chill the F out.

I am at an IP boutique and I have way too much work to do. Given what is going on in the economy, I am not going to complain.

Someone needs to chronicle LW's shenanigans with audio/video evidence and post it somewhere. All of you folks on the chopping block should bring your smartphones with video recorders to the conference room Friday and tape the lies/excuses that Latham shells our at Friday's layoff meeting. You should also keep your phones on your desk and ready to press record in the event the partners and AssComm members do office-to-office firings. This travesty needs to be thoroughly documented so future generations of Biglaw recruits will know to stay away from TTT shops like Latttham. This aggression will not stand!

Lets talk about reality.

In january a whole bunch of people got FIRED. They were fired because in any normal industry they would have been fired 12 months ago. Yes - there is dead wait. There are people who have a lot of debt who work hard and there are people with a lot of debt who for some unknown reason feel entitled because they went to a fancy law school. Some of those people come in at 10, leave at 6 and never go the extra mile for the client or to find more work. Some people say "can i give it to you tomorrow - i want to go to the gym tonight" when their supervisors are working on the same project until 2 am despite being 4 years older.

Believe it or not - some people who get jobs at latham and other big firms dont deserve them. I am sure those people are very intelligent. But if you are at big law to pay off your loans - and dont really give a shit about busting your ass - well - you should not be here and when times get tough - you get FIRED. Welcome to reality.

Friday's layoffs are a completely different animal. We are in the middle on a once in a lifetime economic catastrophy. We will NEVER see this in our lifetime again - unless of course life expectancy goes to 150. Latham is laying off because NO ONE, I repeat NO ONE - not Alan Greenspan, not Dick Fuld, and most certainly not ding dong Bob freakin Dell - could have seen this coming.

Pretty simple math - when Wall Street fires 160,000 people - the entities that service those institutions HAVE to contract.

Latham will survive and be leaner and stronger as a result. I feel very bad for the junior associates - especially first and second years - who are about to get walking papers for something completely out of their control. But - at the end of the day - there are a lot of people at GM, AIG, Lehman, and other places who got screwed by this mess much much worse than any latham or other big law attorney who will be unemployed in 3 days. After all - you have a law degree and you live in a country where the lawyers make all the rules. You can always hang a shingle and make a dime back in the podunk town you came from. Your friend at investment bank A - well - he is out of a job forever - because those jobs are NEVER coming back. And guess what - there arent too many jobs for lev fin bankers in podunk America.

As an aside - i billed 60% of pace last year and still got a bonus. It is not about the hours people - its about the quality of the product - and your actual talent - and proven ability. Unfortunately - on Friday - a lot of brilliant people at Latham will walk away because Alan Greenspan and George Bush (and Mr. Reagan) set us on a course for an over leveraged and unsustainable balloon that is going to take 10 years to work out of.

Tip - Take your serverance - and buy gold coins. Seriously. If you can afford it - you should because when hyper inflation sets in after Chine stops buying treasuries in 9 - 12 months - you will be able to pay off those fixed rate loans 3 times over will gold at 2500 an oz.

If you Latham associates weren't so BUTT UGLY you could get new jobs in the PORN industry.

I am a LW 1st year associate. I just wanted to give a shout out to the other associates that will get laid off with me on Friday. Look on the bright side, at least we got bar fees paid for, a bar-study bonus, a few months pay, and a severance out of this package. What did LW get out of us but a few hours of billable work. I say we one-upped them. So whatever happens on Friday, just laugh at the OMP and say "thanks for the free cash, I'm out, bitches!!!"

380 - Source? Offices to be affected?

394 = alpha

There don't appear to be any conference rooms booked in DC...??? Is DC not included in the layoffs? Does anyone know if people will get calls today for The Meeting Friday?

-L&W DC Junior Associate

392 - very good post, but pls spell "weight" correctly next time. Then I would have more confidence in your ability.

397- the DC conference rooms were booked as of early Thursday morning. Shortly after this story broke on ATL, they were all UNreserved.

399: You mean last Thursday? I checked as recently as yesterday afternoon and saw nothing of note.

Ooops- my bad. I meant "as of WEDNESDAY morning."

-399

look at the numbers. Latham has twice the revenue of GDC. you can't really compare them. more growth and size, particularly in corporate and finance, means more pain when those areas of the economy are the hardest hit during this recession. it sucks, and I feel bad for the young lawyers who feel slighted, but this is the free market, and supply and demand applies in the law as well. the lesson for latham is to grow smarter in the future and not overhire during boom periods. the lack of work for summers and young associates was apparent years ago.
smart growth is key.

lastly, for all of you claiming that you billed 2000+ and still got canned, let this be a lesson to you. despite what they tell you, pro bono doesn't really count. it's about billable hours and profits, and you're either making the owners money or you're costing them money. if you start costing them money for too long, you're out. it's no different for you than it is for A-Rod.

You're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you pal? It's the free market. And you're a part of it.

If it happens to you, hold your head up high and go on to the next thing in your life. there will be plenty of great things for you if you work hard and keep at it. this is the bottom, we hope, of an extremely difficult period. i think 392 is right. remember if you were smart enough to get into Latham in the first place, you can still do great things with your law degree. your buddy who got that finance mba is f*cked, but you can take that law degree anywhere. getting laid off by biglaw in this environment is no shame, even though I know it feels that way. stay cool, positive, hopeful, and industrious my young squires.

I agree with 404. There's no shame. And no one should go for voluntary departure. Let everyone know how the firm took care of all of you. Everything will work out eventually. It's not your fault, so don't feel responsible for others' actions.

@1-405; hi haterz!

I've noticed that more people at Layoffs & WaTTTkins use cheesy street slang (like "haterz" and "shout out") than any other high-caliber firm. It's part of the phony culture of the firm, analogous to the whole "We're so laid back" BS that Layoffs & WaTTTkins has cultivated and rubbed in everyone's faces over the years.

I am a Latham associate and have heard rumors of 6 months severence. Anyone else?

@407, keep riding that jock son

@409 -- thank you for proving my point young sir. now please spray on some more Drakar Noir, put your ipod back in your ears, turn up "T.I. featuring Justin Timberlake" and get back to your document review.

A partner I worked with a couple months ago just stopped by to say "I just wanted to wish you the best." Asshole.

408- Wishful thinking. 3 months is market, that's what Latham will probably pay

I just hope they do this today rather than putting us through any more torture.

DAMN! 291 be down on how I spell my name! What he know...

(Attorney whispers in ear)

Oh, snap! My crafty Jew lawyer just told me I did spell my name wrong. And he asked me if I was hiring 'cause that firm he worked for just fired his ass!!!!

322, crowding out? Get a grip. Companies are deleveraging in a deflationary environment. Good credit risks aren't looking to take on debt or make capital improvements and have no incentive to do so.

408 - yes, I am hearing a very generous severance package, 4-6 months depending on class year and maybe other factors.

410 been had a small dick, kid

393-
I don't know who you know but L&W associates are hot!

I work here. This place is poorly run. They need to revamp their administration first before letting anyone else go.

393-
I don't know who you know but L&W associates are hot!

I work here. This place is poorly run. They need to revamp their administration first before letting anyone else go.

378: me too

I wouldn't mind being laid off if I get 6 months severance.

417 = epic dumb.

Fuck... just found out my gf is pregnant. Not a good time to get axed.

179: It's because the letters are printed on uncopyable/non-scannable safety paper that is no longer needed since LW is no longer closing any deals.

370 - Sorry for trying to simplify it, but for the specific example of GDC v LW, if GDC's rates are higher than LW's, then by definition (unless there is a substantial difference in the average hours worked per lawyer - which there probably is) GDC's revenue per lawyer will be higher, period. GDC has less leverage, therefore their average rates are higher to begin with (less associates at lower rates not dragging down the average rates). Wasn't bashing GDC or LW at all. There's lots of reasons that GDC is more profitable than LW, rates are just one of them....now you go back to basic math.

423, thanks for letting us know how you got your GF pregnant, but I think most of us already know the basics.

I’m a little mouse with access …

1. Latham will layoff over 200 staff and about 175 junior attorneys on Friday morning.

2. They will pay better than market severance to staff and attorneys.

3. New York will be more affected than other offices.

4. They will NOT rescind law student offers, but will delay your start dates by a few months. Don’t worry your little heads kiddies, I hear they’re going to need you when things turnaround sometime in 2010.

again, they need to cut the million dollar bonuses and attract new clients by lowering the billing rate. No one is worth $500/hr. Especially a bunch of egotistical fat head lawyers.

427 - are you an LW attorney? can you verify something on the intranet home page?

427, what does your mouse say about staff layoffs? The secretarial and tech support managers have conference rooms for the whole day in NY too.

425 - You said that "if your rates are 10% higher than someone elses [sic], your revenue per attorney will instantly be 10% higher," which is simply not true unless the number of attorneys at each firm is exactly the same. Anyway, it was a nice try at being a mathematician, and your basic principle is right. So it's all good. I mean, there must be a reason we all decided to go into law.

427 aka "little mouse" is the senior paralegal in finance (NY office) -- he does have access -- his statements are probably true

427 aka "little mouse" is the senior paralegal in finance (NY office) -- he does have access -- his statements are probably true

So the Recruiting Manager tells me that the layoffs are a go tomorrow, but when I asked the HR Manager directly, I was looked straight in the eye and told it is 'just a rumor'....I've never worked with such a dishonest group of people in my whole life.

That's because the Recruiting Managers in NY and LA (at least) are humans.

Will they close off access to the outdoor smoking patio? I could use a smoke about now...

431 - You are the one who has problems with math (and simple logic). The number of attorneys does not need to be "exactly the same" to make a comparison of revenue "per attorney".

437 - Sorry, I meant to write that each attorney's billable hours would have to be exactly the same in order for the 10% math to work. A firm can have a 10% higher billing rate than another, but if the attorneys at the firm with the higher billing rate bill 50% less hours than the firm with the lower rate, obviously the firm with the higher billing rate will not realize 10% greater revenue per lawyer.

To all at Latham: "The Lord bless you and keep you; The Lord make His face to shine upon you, And be gracious to you; The Lord lift up His countenance upon you, And give you peace." I really mean this. You've worked hard for your JD, passed the bar, etc. Now you feel cheated, but sometimes there comes a humbling in our lives and we have to carry it with us as one of the darkest moments in our lives. But I urge you to go on and go on!!. There is always a light at the end of the tunnel. Hope you find that light.

thanks 439 ... but we the basic reality here is that we are screwed...

303- Let me fix your post:

I love this website and the fucktards who make comments on it.
The notion that a firm like [Heller] is going to go under is moronic. Anyone suggesting that as a serious possibility is probably a law student or a young associate who (1) doesn't know shit and (2) was dinged by [Heller].
Since I fit both of the former categories, I guess I might as well join the rest of the dumb asses out there.. here I go...
"I heard [Heller] rescinded all of its summer offers..."
"[Heller] is definitely doomed.. everyone who works there is going to die and burn in hell..."
On second thought, maybe I'm writing like another fucktard when, in actuality, [Heller] is going to lean up and continue to be a major power in law.
I love this website!

obviously, the laid off ASSOCIATES should COMBINE their separation PACKAGES and START SMALLER FIRMS. they can hire directly from the laid off staff. this could be the spark that gives our industry a couple of NEW FIRMS led by MODERN, TALENTED lawyers. bravo latham!

obviously, the laid off ASSOCIATES should COMBINE their separation PACKAGES and START SMALLER FIRMS. they can hire directly from the laid off staff. this could be the spark that gives our industry a couple of NEW FIRMS led by MODERN, TALENTED lawyers. bravo latham!

For all of you 2Ls out there, here is the official policy on this year's summers (from a memo circulated internally on 2/23):
"....the consequent reduction of summer associates will be based on the 30/70 application to extant offers."
In essence, 30% of existing summer associate offers will be honored, the rest will not unless there are subsequent rejections from the 30% pool. Now, you need to figure out whether you would be considered in the top 30% or not!

Quote from 307 - "There is also the political angle - these layoffs give department heads full political cover to get rid of anyone they just plain don't like, for whatever reason. This may have nothing to do with the person's competence or level of work."

Sounds cynical. Sounds angry. Sounds pessimisstic.

Unfortunately, it's realistic.

You're right on, 307. Very often it's not EVEN about an equity partner's dislike for - or even knowledge of - a particular associate. But rather it's often about a partner's dislike of another partner whose power borne of billing weight was threatening his own.

Law firms are not and never will be corporations. They will never be styled like corporations, managed by a board, truly run by an employee whose compensation includes a personally owned stake in the company.

Instead law firms are run and owned by a collection of individuals who have differing levels of power at different times. This same mob sees their compensation depend not necessarily on their own performance, but, really, the performance of others. So to beat the other guy often means using your power to get rid of the people who generate the revenue for him.

It would be nice if everyone could look to a simple bottom line and deduce their own future from what appears logical and crystal clear. But it just ain't that way.

During the last times of Mighty Collapse (early 90s) I once read an anonymous' partner's critical commentary on dealing in a law firm management climate. He said that no one is really a "partner" with anyone. They're all a bunch of individual practices crammed together under one roof, competing against each other.

Yup, I'd agree.