Nationwide Layoff Watch: Lowenstein Sandler Cuts 53
And Rescinds 3L Offers
News started breaking this morning about significant layoffs at the large New Jersey firm of Lowenstein Sandler. The firm has now had an opportunity to inform all of the affected associates, and is ready to confirm the layoffs. The following is from a firm wide email that just went out to all Lowenstein personnel:
With deep regret, we are today implementing a reduction in force affecting 21 attorneys and 32 staff members across all departments of the firm, representing just under ten percent of our total workforce. We also are reducing the size of our 2009 incoming class by three associates. These were extremely difficult decisions for the firm to make, and we delayed for as long as possible because of the quality and dedication of the employees who are being affected.
The numbers represent about 8% of the total attorneys at Lowenstein.
If you had been hanging around McGoverns Tavern (as our sources have), you’d know that the firm also rescinded offers to 3Ls:
Word is … that NJ firm Lowenstein Sandler is rescinding offers to 3L’s…. Source is third hand from a 3L who is at McGoverns Tavern right now, having had their offer rescinded.
The firm was able to confirm this news directly to ATL.
Read the firm’s statements after the jump.
Lowenstein has become the latest firm to rescind 3L offers:
Regrettably, three of our 18 incoming first year associates are affected by this decision. We are currently in the process of contacting all 15 of our remaining Fall associates to confirm their normal start dates (generally, late September).We reluctantly included incoming associates in this action in order to be open about our assessment of demand for services over the next year — we really do not want to repeat this process. We are comfortable with an incoming class size of 15, and are confident that they will be busy.
The firm also tells ATL that they will be providing severance packages to all attorneys and staff. The firm does not anticipate any further reduction in force.
Our New Jersey readership is large and growing. We know the world doesn’t end just west of the Hudson. If you’ve got information on other Garden State firms making cutbacks in these tough times, please send it into tips.
Update (2:34): Lowenstein is trying to provide specific help to the 3Ls who just had their offers rescinded and a few of its former associates. According to the firm:
We have arranged for public interest positions to be available to the three affected incoming associates. We will fund the salary (at the public interest agency’s normal rate) for a full year. We also are in the process of arranging appropriate public interest positions on similar terms for up to three of our more senior attorneys affected by today’s actions.
That seems compassionate given how difficult it is for people to find jobs of any kind in this economy.
Read the full firm wide memo below.
LOWENSTEIN SANDLER — MEMO — LAYOFFS
Dear Colleagues:
With deep regret, we are today implementing a reduction in force affecting 21 attorneys and 32 staff members across all departments of the firm, representing just under ten percent of our total workforce. We also are reducing the size of our 2009 incoming class by three associates. These were extremely difficult decisions for the firm to make, and we delayed for as long as possible because of the quality and dedication of the employees who are being affected.
Unfortunately, our efforts to substantially curtail expenses over the past year without reducing full-time headcount proved insufficient in the face of a rapidly slowing economy and slowing demand for legal services. As has become abundantly clear over the past few months, our nation is suffering through the deepest global economic crisis that any of us has experienced during our careers. Our clients have uniformly seen their business activity slow, and that has directly affected the amount of legal work that they require from their attorneys. In addition, over the past year we have seen our firm’s normal employee attrition rate slow dramatically.
Our actions today are necessary to align our staffing levels with the current and anticipated level of demand for our services so that we can continue to provide our clients with the most cost-effective level of client service possible. With these reductions, which bring us to approximately the same size workforce that we had in mid-2007, we expect that we will return to a normal, “busy” level of activity as a firm. Based on these projections, we are not planning any further reductions in force.
All affected attorneys and staff members who were in the office today already have been contacted. We expect to reach all of our impacted employees by the close of business today.
We are providing comprehensive severance benefits and outplacement assistance to each employee who is being laid off. In addition, given the high caliber of our friends and colleagues, we hope that each of you will keep your eyes and ears open for opportunities for them. If you know of any positions that might be of interest to our colleagues, please contact [Redacted]
Although the next few days will be difficult for our firm, our business is fundamentally strong. Our market-leading strategy is sound and we continue to benefit from a terrific diversity of practice areas and a very talented workforce that provides the highest quality client service every day. Each of us needs to continue to focus on the values and priorities that have sustained our firm throughout the course of its history — including empathy and compassion for our colleagues who are being laid off today and for other individuals and organizations in our communities who are impacted by these difficult times, as well as focusing on continuing to deliver the best and highest quality client service of any law firm out there.
Thank you for your commitment to this law firm and our clients.
Gary
Gary M. Wingens
Managing Director
(168) 
Comments
Shit.
Not the last (commentor or layoff news of the day)
No firm is going to rescind offers, huh? Dumbasses.
Not the last (commentor or layoff news today).
The sky has officially fallen. 3L OFFERS BEING REVOKED!!!!
Well, someone on the 3L thread wanted firm names...here ya go. For the sake of other 3Ls let's hope it's not a trend, but.....
Yikes.
does this explain the absences in today's secured transactions class?
Me: I can haz job.
Firm: shure.
Me: ty.
Firm: pscyhe.
Me: :(. y u do dat?
3 - no one said NO firms would rescind offers. Just not most top firms. Do you really think this firm is concerned with reputational damage in a way that even V100 firms are? Do you think they are competing for talent at top law schools?
I wonder how they decided on those 3 students - that sucks. I am glad I self-limited the number of lunches I went on last summer, although at the time it was because I did not have time to exercise between work and all the evening events.
At least it's not all 3L offers?
who?
i wonder how they picked which 15 to keep. brutal
If my offer does get rescinded I'm going to Vegas to drive a cab and give my passengers shoddy legal advice
Does anyone know how the firm in West Orange is doing? I know that they're in Roseland, but there's another big firm down the street that never answered my application.
The reductions are 10 percent of the "total wrokforce" What about the associate workforce? 21 attorneys at Lowenstein has to be at least a 20% reduction in associates. That's huge.
13 - performance, of course.
9: I think they are. Plenty of people, especially married ones, would prefer to live in the Montclair area, as opposed to the big city. It's far less expensive, you can own a car, and there are many more Whole Foods locations.
I think Montclair is actually one of the most underrated cities in the entire area. Too many people settle on Astoria or Staten Island.
8 = hilarious.
Wonder if they just put all the 3L names in a hat and picked randomly? Unless those 15 3L's are star ass-kissers and did a great job of brown nosing during interviews.
"Nationwide Layoff Watch: Lowenstein Sandler Cuts 53
And Rescinds 3L Offers"
Elie, what the hell? 3 3L offers were rescinded. Stop crying wolf as if all offers were rescinded.
But did any of the 3Ls go to NORTHERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY??
9 asks if Lowenstein thinks they are competing for talent at top schools. Here's your answer, 9: Not anymore, they aren't.
9 - sounds like something an associate would say in 2007. wake up schmuk.
Sucks to be one of the 3...
How did they pick the 3 whose lives they ruined?
Man, this is really going to kill any hopes of them getting the cream of the crop at Rutgers next year.
New Jersey firms are a fraud. They market themselves as lifestyle family friendly firms to get people to ignore the fact that they pay less during recruiting. Then, when you join, you have to work as hard as at NYC Biglaw, and are just as likely to get fired.
this is awful news for UPenn State's satellite campus in Philly.
The headline should have been "Rescinds SOME 3L offers"...
The headline should have been "Rescinds SOME 3L offers"...
When I first read it I thought they had rescinded all 3L offers, and I clicked on the story and found that only SOME had be rescinded. Does it suck, yeah, but this headline misleading...but effective of course
To 9 and all other delusional law students- you know that if you were out of work- you would send a resume to any firm that pays well, no matter what they did concerning layoffs or the like. Reputational hit? You're kidding. You think T14 3Ls are going to have 100% employment 6 months after graduation (no school achieves this number- so even during best of times you can't employ everyone). Those numbers are going down for at least the next 2 - 3 years.
Low Standards and Layoffs & WaTTTkin are merging to Eiffel tower associates. You heard it here first.
23 - If I'm a student at a top law school when the recession is over, why would I ever pick a similarly situated firm that rescinded 3L offers over ones that didn't? Why would I risk my career being ruined before it has even started by choosing a firm that is going to engage in this behavior if the economy hits the skids? Of all the things that law firms could do in a recession to help save money, I have to think that rescinding offers to 3Ls is the one that would hurt their recruiting the most at top schools once the recession is over.
I read this site often and rarely (actually never) comment, however, Elie this is a situation where a sensational headline is irresponsible. If Lowenstein cuts 3 associates from their incoming class, then that is what the headline should reflect. We all know that firms over recruited and that some 3L's will face the chopping block, but I don't think ATL needs to feed what was already an acknowledged problem, there's enough paranoia to go around at this point.
I would expect this from Latham but Lowenstein???
Karl Rove is definitely on the payroll at ATL...
The headline is misleading only if you're illiterate. Otherwise, you would take the headline to mean that 3L offers were rescinded.... which they were. Remember LSAT assumption questions?
"Rescinds 3L Offers" ≠ "Rescinds All 3L Offers"
The inability of some of the commenters on this blog to read is astounding.
If you read a headline that said "XYZ Law Firm Lays Off Associates" would you assume that they had just reduced their associate head count to zero?
Fish is reportedly going one step further and laying off clients - Elie, get on this.
Sympathies to those 3Ls who had their offers rescinded, and to those associates and staff who lost their jobs.
These are hard times, and economic difficulties are affecting law firms and government law offices across the entire spectrum of the profession. This is not the time to be making condescending remarks. You, the firm you work for, or the firm which offered you a job that you have not yet started, could be next.
We are all in deep trouble, and will have to pull together to get through this. If you are still in school, study hard. If you are a lawyer, work hard. If you are fortunate enough still to have a job, don't whine about your bonus being cut. If you can offer sympathy or support to a student who has lost an offer, or an associate or staff member who has lost a job, do so.
33: you're watching the front end of a major change in how law firms do their recruiting. The recession will allow firms to correct for what is now seen in perspective as the serious excesses of the last decade and gain a little more control over the process. I suspect a number of firms will kill off summer programs entirely.
This may not apply to the upper reaches of Vault, but you'll see it in the lower portions of AMLAW 100 and certainly in the second 100.
I was one of the people laid off today, but I knew I was going to be. I think one of the partners found out that I'm sleeping with his wife.
23/33 = retard.
SHOW ME THE MONEY....all that matters...and BIGLAW knows it.
Its a recession...a deep recession...and thousands of talented lawyers are looking for work...STFU and deal with it.
LOL PWN PWN PWN PWN PWN PWN PWN PWN PWN
Although it sucks, at least they stepped up with the 3Ls and provided them something. As a 3L, you need experience, so at least they are providing some.
Their statement about outplacement assistance is a joke. They are using a company that does not do outplacement. It only gives you "guidance," e.g. resume help and interview training. I guess when you have partners making several hundred thousand dollars a year, they have to make sure that not even the clerical help gets real help, lest their annual income falls a couple of hundred dollars.
The ship be sinking...
Announcing layoffs in a tavern. Now, that's a great idea! I wonder if the Acela stops in Newark?
Key drives: bad economy and low attrition rate.
I can't help but smirk a little now that law school students are truly being affected by the events that are cataloged on this web site. I recall a lot of snarky comments from law school students and associates they day that Ropes & Gray announced that its RIF was just to effect staff. This economic downturn's affect will continue to permeate all levels of law firms. Make no mistake, the go-go wine and dine days of Big Law are done for a while. Just wait until clients, who are hurting worse than the law firms, start leveraging into reduced billing rates...some law firms will not survive. The days of earning $160k and ~$15k bonuses right out of law school will soon be a thing of the past. Snark Snark.
At least the 3Ls will be working in public interest. They can get loan forgiveness, right?
43 - what happens when the recession is over? I agree with you 100% that people will take jobs where they can get them DURING THE RECESSION. But once the recession is over, do you really think that students from top schools, all things being equal, are going to pick a firm that rescinded offers to 3Ls over one that didn't? I know you are scared right now, but you can't possibly be so shortsighted.
52 = Idiot. You are proving 43's point. When the economy picks up, why would these students care whether a firm rescinded an offer during a recession. It won't happen during an upswing. All these students care about is the starting salary listed on NALP. Trust me, I have been there.
Not 43.
52 = Idiot. You are proving 43's point. When the economy picks up, why would these students care whether a firm rescinded an offer during a recession. It won't happen during an upswing. All these students care about is the starting salary listed on NALP. Trust me, I have been there.
Not 43.
Whenever the wind whistles through the leaves, I'll think "Lowenstein", "Lowenstein".
43 here: not scared...I've already been shitcanned.
Know what I found out? That firms are still hiring, even though they are firing, if you have the right skill set. Had my third interview yesterday, and will be weighing multiple offers next week.
"All things being equal," I'm pretty sure that a firm canning 3L's is far down the list of considerations, when #1 is MONEY, #2 is CAN I GET THAT IN GOLD BULLION, PLEASE, and #3 is HOW ABOUT A BLOWJOB WHILE YOU ARE AT IT.
All firms top students are looking at pay roughly the same salary. Hence the "all things being equal" comment. If you go to a school like Seton Hall, sure you'll take what you can get. But if you go to Harvard, once the economy picks back up, why would you choose a firm that rescinded 3L offers over one that didn't? In doing so, you would be running the risk that if the economy takes another nosedive in the two years before you begin work, you will be out of a job. Why in the world would you take that risk if you have the option to go to a firm that pays the same, has the same quality of work, and didn't rescind 3L offers? I have a feeling that 53/54 and I are talking about a very different group of students.
Lol @ 55.
56 - would you mind sharing your practice area/geographical location?
27: You're exactly right. My entire callback at LS was about how I shouldn't go to NY.
Tonight, let it be Lowenstein.
56 - So you are telling me that if you were a Harvard 2L once the recession is over and you were faced with two firms that paid the same and had similar quality work, it wouldn't make a difference to you whether or not one firm had rescinded offers to 3Ls a few years back, whereas the other didn't? You wouldn't be smart enough to realize that a lot can happen in two years with the economy and that, when facing two otherwise similar firms, you would be better off going to the one that offers you greater job security over the one that in the not-so-distant past ruined the careers of 3Ls?
Well done 55.
All things considered, firm seems to be treating people well by comparison.
This ain't nothing but a thing, for now. Most firms won't rescind 3L offers because there's no real need to.
What firms will do instead is string 3Ls along for the next 8 months - cover bar fees, pay for BarBri, offer stipends. Then they'll push back start dates. Then, because the economy will still be limping along, they'll rescind offers.
While all that is happening, big firms will also be dealing with their excessively bloated summer associate programs.
Mark my words, the big news is not that a handful of 3Ls lost their offers. The big news will come first in August/September when only 50% of SAs get offers, then in October-December when firms start eliminating incoming first years.
Believe me, hand-wringing law students, what you are observing is only a tremble in the water's surface. The T-rex is still in the jungle, but he'll be here soon enough.
What's with all the overly simplistic nonsense about "no one cares what firms did in a recession when it's not a recession"? We're not going to magically flip from recession to boom times when this thing ends. As pretty much everyone universally agrees, things will drag and start to turn very slowly, which means there will be an extended period where people ask "Are we in a recession still?" or "Will things relapse into recession?"
In other words, any 1L or prospective law student looking at firms right now better damn well pay lots of attention to who fucked their associates during this recession because it will have repercussions on firm morale, management, and stability for at least the next few years.
Anyone care to meet up at Lace (7th/48) for a beer and the distractions of topless from the eastern block?
I'll be there blowing through my severance.
50: You want snark? Learn the effin' difference between 'effect' and 'affect.' Moron.
Really? A Rutgers Law student is in McGovern's and upset about their offer, really? Whoever is in McGovern's with their Blackberry, hears him/her saying this and doesn't think "Wow, I ought to buy that person a beer" and instead whips out his Blackberry and emails this site should have to clean out thos McG bathrooms with his tounge b/c he's a dick. Really.
There have been plenty of other attorneys laid off from Lowenstein over the last few months, they just didn't make the news.
Hey AcelaBob! Yes, Acela stops in Newark. You would know that if you weren't too busy during the ride blabbing your mouth off. HTH
Thanks 68. Agreed.
59: Midwest/MA. Litigation.
While I am not in WVa, I have found that business is booming in WVa....odd, no?
P.S.: To the elitist douches that inhabit the comments: there is life outside of NYC.
Quinn Remains?
55/61: well played, both of you.
15 - are you referring to Wolff?
Any info on White & Case?
Any info on White & Case?
64 has it right. Firms will string us along for as long as possible.
Big law is like a beautiful woman; she always will have suitors and when things start going south, she can callously cast off TTT scum such as myself...
They are using a company that does not do outplacement. It only gives you "guidance," e.g. resume help and interview training.
__________________________________________
That's what all outplacement firms do.
67: I do know the difference...just made a mistake...did you make one by going to law school? Lots of folks are probably asking that question right now. Guess I touched a nerve.
Nervous 1L Wherrrrre Arrrrre Youuuuuu?
Douche
Rutgers grads should never have been making 160k in the first place. The market its correcting itself.
psh ... lowenstein? I'll start panicking when a firm I've actually heard of rescinds 3L offers.
9 -- Lowenstein does (or did) recruit at top L-schools. They didn't much (and now certainly will get less) play, but they get at least some, particularly from students interested in biotech M&A. Oh, and you're a douchebag.
9 -- Lowenstein does (or did) recruit at top L-schools. They didn't much (and now certainly will get less) play, but they get at least some, particularly from students interested in biotech M&A. Oh, and you're a douchebag.
76/77:
Please elaborate. Heard anything?
76/77:
Please elaborate. Heard anything?
76/77:
Have you heard any intel?
76/77:
Have any info on White & Case or just curious?
76/77:
Have any info on White & Case or just curious?
76/77:
Have any info on White & Case or just curious?
Thanks 56/72. Glad things worked out for you and it gives me hope.
76/77:
Have any info on White & Case or just curious?
@55, nice one.
what's going on at white & case? i remember they had like 100 summer associates or something
I went to a "top law school" and interviewed at Lowenstein (I'm from NJ). I turned down the callback because I decided to move elsewhere and because I heard I'd work the same biglaw hours at LS for a lot less money. In the end, I took a traditional BigLaw job and got laid off anyway!
As commenter 69 pointed out, nobody discussed any earlier quietly-done layoffs... Lowenstein doesn't compete for top talent at top schools. Not with NJ salaries they don't. They compete for top talent at local NJ schools and take whatever they can get from top schools and from former NY biglaw attorneys seeking a suburban lifestyle... Seems like most of the commenters are law students. I'm sorry you guys are about to start your careers in this downturn but expect things to turn around by the time many of you get out to the working world.
Lowenstein is considered the #1 or #2 (non-national) New Jersey law firm. They expect Biglaw hours and end up paying you much less than you're worth. If you have the choice between Lowenstein and traditional Biglaw, take the latter route.
87-95: no news about White & Case that anybody bothered to tell me about
Whether rescinding 3L offers will hurt the firm's recruiting depends on how many other firms do the same. If this becomes a trend, 2Ls three or four years down the road will not even remember which firm did it and which firm didn't and it all becomes acceptable.
65 - Yeah, but a 2 & 3L's are going to take the best offer they can in this market, and during a recovery as well. Sure, the top most talent may bypass due to layoffs, but when loans are nipping at your heels, I'd like to see the self-entitled schmuck who passes on a decent chance to work b/c some firm laid off some "at-will" people a couple of years ago.
Haven't you ever worked before? This just in, no one is ever too safe, ever. Prior to this recession, it seemed that the Big/Mid Law model just rewarded averageness.
Didn't Lowenstein post annual profits per partner of over $1 million just a year or two ago? My, how the world is changing.
Didn't Lowenstein post annual profits per partner of over $1 million just a year or two ago? My, how the world is changing.
101 - I'm pretty sure that 65 would agree with you that law firms will always be able to find warm bodies to fill the seats. However, if a law firm wants any hope of recruiting from top law schools once the recession is over, it would be well advised not to rescind offers to 3Ls. If it is happy filling its ranks with students from Hofstra, Seton Hall, and Rutgers, then rescinding offers to 3Ls now likely won't have much of an impact on their future recruiting plans. Good luck recruiting post-recession from Harvard, Columbia, or Yale, though. The question is, does the firm want to rely on NYU for recruiting post-recession, or on New York Law School?
I feel for the 3Ls whose offers were rescinded. OTOH, I think that the firm did the right thing by finding the students public interest work for a year and funding the salary. These kids are a lot better off than many of their classmates--a year of experience is a year of experience.
Does anyone know what departments the layoffs were in? I wonder if other NJ firms will start cutting attorneys and staff now, I think many firms just didn't want to be the first NJ firm to have a mass layoff.
what is the % of associates laid off (as opposed to "total attorneys")?
A few numbers about Lowenstein:
PPP (2007) $1.1mm (highest in NJ)
2L Class (2008) 22 (largest in NJ)
According to the Lowenstein website, there were
95 "Members"
6 Of Counsel
15 Senior Counsel
59 Counsel
92 Associates
Members and Of Counsel probably weren't laid off.
if so, 21 of the rermaining 165 attorneys is a boatload of people going out the door.
As a retired lawyer and businessman, I have been reading many of these comments with a mixture of disgust and bemusement. It certainly stinks to have an offer withdrawn but, as many have already commented, not all of the offers were rescinded. The fact is that law firms (and other business ventures) don't exist to keep their junior employees in beer and skittles. That is something that the young "entitled" among us are going to be learning very soon. Life is difficult. Kvetching about it will just piss off those who might be able to help you. Get off the computer (and get out of McGowan's) and look for another job. This too shall pass. As to commenter #25: their lives haven't been "ruined." Stop whining!
As a retired lawyer and businessman, I have been reading many of these comments with a mixture of disgust and bemusement. It certainly stinks to have an offer withdrawn but, as many have already commented, not all of the offers were rescinded. The fact is that law firms (and other business ventures) don't exist to keep their junior employees in beer and skittles. That is something that the young "entitled" among us are going to be learning very soon. Life is difficult. Kvetching about it will just piss off those who might be able to help you. Get off the computer (and get out of McGowan's) and look for another job. This too shall pass. As to commenter #25: their lives haven't been "ruined." Stop whining!
As a retired lawyer and businessman, I have been reading many of these comments with a mixture of disgust and bemusement. It certainly stinks to have an offer withdrawn but, as many have already commented, not all of the offers were rescinded. The fact is that law firms (and other business ventures) don't exist to keep their junior employees in beer and skittles. That is something that the young "entitled" among us are going to be learning very soon. Life is difficult. Kvetching about it will just piss off those who might be able to help you. Get off the computer (and get out of McGowan's) and look for another job. This too shall pass. As to commenter #25: their lives haven't been "ruined." Stop whining!
Lowenstein Sandler is one of the top 2 New Jersey firms and remains at the top for profits earned.
The firm has been conducting rolling layoffs for the past few months, but these were performance based and completely coincided with the end of year reviews they gave right before the Thanksgiving holidays. The firm, because it was backed into a wall (and because of the absence of standard attrition), conducted this round of layoffs with the intention of making such layoffs this one time and also to ensure that there is less of the inevitable morale drain that will result from today's cuts.
I also think that the firm IS trying when it comes to the 10 weeks of severance they gave to the laid off associates. Granted, benefits terminate within a couple of weeks, but at least severance was in keeping with market. And also, for the affected 3Ls, the firm recognized that they're sh*t out of luck in this economy and also with no job experience so is doing its best to make amends by placing these students in positions that provide some sort of boost or otherwise for their resumes.
Finally, Lowenstein does hire top talent. In case anyone has not noticed, all the big kids are doing it... re- everyone is firing and laying off. When the economy rebounds, people will still remain knocking at doors. Business and economic cycles just are what they are.
I truly ache for all my colleagues laid off today and wish them the very best.
Fin.
As a retired lawyer and businessman, I have been reading many of these comments with a mixture of disgust and bemusement. It certainly stinks to have an offer withdrawn but, as many have already commented, not all of the offers were rescinded. The fact is that law firms (and other business ventures) don't exist to keep their junior employees in beer and skittles. That is something that the young and "entitled" among us are beginning to learn. In down times, firms do what they must in order to survive. From the hindsight of experience, it seems to me that Lowenstein has acted with great restraint and sensitivity. As to commenter #25: their lives haven't been "ruined." Stop whining!
As a retired lawyer and businessman, I have been reading many of these comments with a mixture of disgust and bemusement. It certainly stinks to have an offer withdrawn but, as many have already commented, not all of the offers were rescinded. The fact is that law firms (and other business ventures) don't exist to keep their junior employees in beer and skittles. That is something that the young and "entitled" among us are beginning to learn. In down times, firms do what they must in order to survive. From the hindsight of experience, it seems to me that Lowenstein has acted with great restraint and sensitivity. As to commenter #25: their lives haven't been "ruined." Stop whining!
#112 - Where are you getting your information?
Marge: Thank you, doctor. Whenever the wind whistles through the
leaves, I'll think "Lowenstein", "Lowenstein".
Zweig: My name is Zweig.
Marge: [whispering] Lowenstein...
115- straight from the horse's mouth.
-112
112 - I heard that they are not discussing the severance packages.
112 - I heard that they are not discussing the severance packages.
115
8=Classic and Hilarious
62: You are an idiot. First of all, only Harvard 2Ls actually think that BigLaw firms actually care about Harvard 2Ls. Secondly, consider the inverse of your presumption: firms that cut fat now, potentially because of irresponsible and bloated hiring in the past five years, may be in a much stronger position to avoid layoffs in the future.
Assuming that the status quo of three years ago will magically return in 2010 is foolish. You think that everything will return to "normal," with the DJIA cracking around 15k and talk of NY going to $190k? Think again...
Thank god I work for Gibbons.
Suck it Parker Posey.
This is no suprise, that firm is run by a bunch of shitheads. Last year I interviewed at Lowenstein, I was a 3L at a top 50 school, and after a few mins the partner interviewing me starts telling me that they were not going to hire anyone from my schools since there were only one slot available and they were also receiving applications from harvard and federal clerks.
This is no suprise, that firm is run by a bunch of shitheads. Last year I interviewed at Lowenstein, I was a 3L at a top 50 school, and after a few mins the partner interviewing me starts telling me that they were not going to hire anyone from my schools since there were only one slot available and they were also receiving applications from harvard and federal clerks.
64 is right. All of you talking about reputational hits for recruiting don't get it. You really don't. The law business is changing and you just aren't awake to the new reality.
Firms are struggling right now. Profits are down 20-40% at most places. Countless places are letting go 5-15% of their force. There have been capital calls at many big firms. Collections are slowing too, so it isn't just that work is down but we aren't getting paid for the work we have done. Some law firms are managed incredibly conservatively and are cutting to try and stay ahead of things. Other places are managed horribly and are cutting because they were never well situated to deal with a hiccup. Bottom line is, the last thing on partners' minds is worry about what people who aren't even law students today might think about them reputationally in 5 years. Heck, many are going to rethink this whole summer associate concept anyway. It's a complete waste of money.
This will pass. But stop with your narrow view on things. Firms exist for the benefit of the equity partners and only those who are powerful. No one else. They will hire summer associates and associates only if it serves their interests.
I'm not expecting any massive wave of 3L offers being rescinded. But I am expecting lots of start dates being delayed, the summer associates leaving this summer with no offers, etc. The notion that you think a law firm really cares that much about law students only proves you have never practiced or have practiced for less than 5 years in an overly self-important associate bubble. Partners who had multi million dollar books in past years have gotten the boot. Trust me, you just aren't that important to them.
119- talk to those affected by the layoffs.
112
One of my friends from Rutgers was laid off today and realistically she always went over and above with recruiting at the school and I several other people should have gone first. She did two summers at the firm and was conducting interviews for the school hoping to find people for them only two Fridays ago. Realistically, if she is gone the place is going under and the place is DONE...
One of my friends from Rutgers was laid off today and realistically she always went over and above with recruiting at the school and I several other people should have gone first. She did two summers at the firm and was conducting interviews for the school hoping to find people for them only two Fridays ago. Realistically, if she is gone the place is going under and the place is DONE...
One of my friends from Rutgers was laid off today and realistically she always went over and above with recruiting at the school and I several other people should have gone first. She did two summers at the firm and was conducting interviews for the school hoping to find people for them only two Fridays ago. Realistically, if she is gone the place is going under and the place is DONE...
One of my friends from Rutgers was laid off today and realistically she always went over and above with recruiting at the school and I several other people should have gone first. She did two summers at the firm and was conducting interviews for the school hoping to find people for them only two Fridays ago. Realistically, if she is gone the place is going under and the place is DONE...
One of my friends from Rutgers was laid off today and realistically she always went over and above with recruiting at the school and I several other people should have gone first. She did two summers at the firm and was conducting interviews for the school hoping to find people for them only two Fridays ago. Realistically, if she is gone the place is going under and the place is DONE...
126-130- do you realistically think that's a realistic proposition? Realistically?
I interviewed with this firm during OCI week in the fall. I was genuinely interested in the firm - I go to school in NYC, but I am a few years older than most 2Ls, I'm married, and I would have been happy to earn a little less money but work in Roseland and live in a relatively affordable part of Jersey (where I could buy a house). I was super annoyed that I did not get a callback. I similarly did not get callbacks from a couple of other "big" Jersey firms. This was perplexing, because i was getting callbacks (and ultimately offers) from V50 firms in NYC. A BigLaw associate friend of mine clued me in to what was going on - my credentials were apparently TOO GOOD for Lowenstein and its peer firms, and they didn't want to extend callbacks to somebody who they thought would likely turn down an offer.
Any firm with that mentality is a TTT, in my opinion
in case it wasn't already mentioned, one of the laid off 3Ls from rutgers double-summered for lowenstein
132 - You may be a tool. Pretty certain you are. "I was willing to have them and they turned me down. Me!"
TTTool.
134 - Not so, having worked at LS in the past, they actually do favor people who they believe want to stay in NJ. One whiff of wanting to leave (I like Broadway shows!), and you're not getting hired.
135 - Clearly they want people who want to work in NJ. This does not change the fact that 132 is a self-important blowhard and was likely not hired for that reason.
132 is a tool and likely needs help getting dressed in the morning.
For those commenting that don't know this firm, it's actually a good place to practice law and a good place to work. I was there for 3 years before I left to go in-house.
Half of you don't understand that it's not always about "the money." When utilization (productivity) is down, it's bad for everyone. That goes for a law firm, a consulting firm, a bank, you name it. Adjusting the workforce to meet demand is a tough thing to do yet it's the right thing to do in the long term. Finally - from the other post, the sh*thead factor here is tiny compared to other NY area firms.
134-
132 here. If you actually read my post, you would have learned that I really DID want to work there, and I think they took me less seriously because they figured I would accept an offer from an NYC firm (which, of course, I did).
What a pity party! The woman (#132) who was "super annoyed that [she] did not get a callback" needs to realize that she is not necessarily G-d's gift to the law. Having hired my share of lawyers, I can attest to the fact that there are many factors (some personal. some professional) that go into a hiring decision. Perhaps she had a bit of spinach in her teeth during her interview. Perhaps her personality did not mesh with the firm's needs. Perhaps she is not as smart as she thinks she is. Perhaps there was someone better! The one thing that I can say with assurance is that her statement that her "credentials were apparently TOO GOOD for Lowenstein and its peer firms" is patently absurd.
139-
Then how do you explain callbacks at 10 V50 firms and offers at 5?
140: I'll tell you how I'll explain it! It's because those firms have major fungible needs and a bigger summer class. Don't forget: the smaller the class size (all the way down to boutiques), the more personality matters more than generic credentials. You can get a Skadden offer with any HYS resume, but there's no certainty that Joe Schmoe law firm in Waterloo, Iowa will hire you.
141-
That may be true for a couple of the firms, but I also got offers from NYC offices of V50 firms headquartered elsewhere, and the summer class is SMALLER than the Lowenstein class. The firm whose offer I accepted will have 8 summers in its NYC office. So try again.
-140
132 - I think you're full of cr#p. Probably someone that was let go today looking to discredit the firm. Enough already.
143-
Me expressing my frustration at not getting a callback interview discredits a firm that just RESCINDED 3L OFFERS?! Are you out of your fucking gourd?
132 - pretty clear they hurt your feelings...you seem a little over emotional and irrational. I think they made the right choice. Time for you to go to bed to start your job search tomorrow.
143 - unlike other firms that are doing this covertly, at least they came out with the open honest truth. They are trying to help the three 3Ls out by getting them some experience. Sounds pretty generous in my opinion.
145-
Ah yes, the ad hominem attack, a good option when you run out of ammo, which of course was bound to happen when you took it upon yourself to defend your TTT New Jersey firm and (by extension) its despicable practice of rescinding 3L offers. But hey, if they'd rather take Settton Hall or Rutttgers grads than CLS grads, more power to them.
-132
I know a handful of the attorneys at Lowenstein and they are all people with a great deal of integrity. This must have been a really tough thing for them to do. Let's stop making this personal. It was a tough day for a lot of people, Is"not getting a call-back" on par with the pain that numerous people here and elsewhere in the industry are feeling by losing their jobs?
135: Not so sure about that. I got an offer from LS, and I didn't go very far out of my way to convince them that I wanted to work in NJ.
Maybe they just didn't like 132? Maybe he was boring and had no personality? NY BIGLAW doesn't care if you have a personality, as long as you can crank out 80 hours per week and hit your billables.
And FWIW, 132, there is no evidence that LS prefers Rutgers or Seton Hall grads. They only confirmed 3L recission was a Rutgers student. Doesn't sound like a preference to me.
As a 0L T-10 bound thoroughbred prestige gunner these layoff news don't bother me at all. In fact, I kinda like it. Bring it on! The rougher the competition, the better. RRROOOOAAAR!!
Signed,
V5 Class of 2012 Associate
P.S.: I win
I hate to break it to everyone but they've been laying off staff and attorneys for the last 5 months. This firm has become a joke. Its ran by greedy partners who have no clue how to generate business. Then they punish associates and staff for their incompetence.
I'd like to know if any first year's were affected. I'm also feeling bad for the incoming summer class. That can't be something to look forward to.
I'd like to know if any first year's were affected. I'm also feeling bad for the incoming summer class. That can't be something to look forward to.
Professional services organizations typically average annual attrition rates of around 20-25%. When that number dips down to 0% like it is now, like it was in 2001, etc., it stifles any organization. It's not always about money and greed - unfortunately many of you know nothing about "the business of law" and think it's just about the money (which is why many of you likely went to law school in the first place, you greedy b@st@rds).
151 - Law firms fire and hire all the time - it's a constant cycle.
151 - Law firms fire and hire all the time - it's a constant cycle.
152 - yes.
152 - yes.
157 - Elaborate?
157 - Elaborate?
157 - Elaborate?
83 - Hater, how's your job going with Thacher in their Summit NJ office?
154 and 155 - Name another NJ law firm that has had this significant of a layoff. Nuff said...
163 - you wouldn't notice if they did...
163 - you wouldn't notice if they did...
80s geezer grad here-worked at Lowenstein for a while back then. Amazing that they would rescind offers. BTW they do have top notch talent from top school-check out Peter Ehrenburg, Mike Rodburg (maybe top enviro atty in the US), Ted Wells for a long time, good litigators and tax. Yes, they wanted NJ people but also top schools. Alan Lowenstein would roll over in his grave at rescinding offers.
154: That is precisely right. Unfortunately these privileged, pampered and overindulged beginners have an exaggerated opinion of their value to others. LS' good sense in refusing to hire such as 152 is amply ratified by the demonstrated foolishness of her comments.
unfortunately many of you know nothing about "the business of law" and think it's just about the money
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What busines ISN'T "just about the money"? Are you high?