FIRST to suggest that "Cleveland Rocks" was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek.

Sersiously, though, as a CleMarsh 2L I'm pysched that Thompson Heinie turned me down; much rather work at Jonesday or Benesh or McD Hops

Salary Cut + Layoff is bad.

But not as bad as living in Cleveland. Am I right people or am I right? Is this thing on?

TOLEDO SOCKS!!

I love Marin.

This firm only paid $125k in NYC. That was before whatever salary cut was implemented.

Who is Marin and what is the relevancy of sphincter bleaching?

Salary Cut + Layoff is bad.

But not as bad as living in Cleveland. Am I right people or am I right? Is this thing on?

Pittsburgh firms are also cutting salaries.

I would rather be Cleveland and covered with festering boils than live in Houston.

Giggitty giggitty

I like Marin's writing...It is Shakespearean compared to Mystal

any word on other midwestern (OH, IN, MI) based firms of similar size?

10- as someone who grew up in Cleveland and lived in Houston, I can tell you that you're RETARDED

Watch the clients and partners with books flee to quality... bye bye to market laggards. If you are a market second or third tier firm based in a 2nd or 3rd tier city the writing is on the wall -- become a boutique or settle for the commoditized low-end work with rates and profits that fit that type of work.

#13 hates retards from Cleveland.

Wishful thinking 14. The partners and clients will stay where the work is good and competitive. The associates received great salaries when times were fat, and now their salaries are going down a little, what's the problem?

But hey, if the big firm associates in NYC did a better job reviewing things, this whole mortgage mess might have been avoided. Nice job guys.

BigPierogiLaw to $55K!

@7, wtf? Marin bleaches her sphincter? What is wrong with you? Go back to GULC night classes.

Wow - if you have to cut associate salaries, at least do so using the percentage method, rather than cutting the same amount from 1st years and more senior associates. This firm is stupid.

lol 16

#16 -- you are the wishful thinker. The point is not that the client and partners will go to NYC, but rather the Cleveland partners and clients will go to the clear market leader, which is Jones Day. This is playing out all across the country. Not that the Thomson Hines of this world will necessarily disappear, but any delusions of grandeur will go away. #16: Good luck at your third tier firm in a fly over city

Marin is from Houston? huh?

Any chance firms are making cuts to free up funds for their summer associate program?

-clueless really nervous sandwich stealing Michigan 1L, hoping to be moderately nervous 1L sa, but could be broke, unemployed & hungry.

This sounds like something Latham would do.

You're all idiots. This firm is an idiot, too, BUT, the "flee to quality" is a joke. Yes, there are some select people with some individual knowledge that is worth the crazy ass rates. The problem is that everyone thought they could be that guy, and they're not. None of us are reinventing the wheel anymore, and now that our clients are worried about the bills, they're starting to wield their power. If it's commoditized, they're not paying 1st tier rates at a 3rd tier firm. They're also not paying 1st tier rates at a 1st tier firm. Face it, it's a new reality. It's cheaper for companies to bring these things in house now than it is to pay their firms, firms are going to have to wise up and come up with something new, or they're all going down. Even Cravath and its $1B dollar lease.

I wish I was in a bathtub filled with Pierogis.

Bellie Mystal

Is this a real firm?

First to say the ship is sinking. The salary cut was 17,500. Ouch! Oh but the COL is so much cheaper here!

Which Pittsburgh firms are cutting salaries?

9--Which Pittsburgh firms are cutting salaries?

I would rather take a salary cut over a generous salary than see my friends and self on the street. Perhaps firms like this did the salary cut to SAVE jobs -- only 12 associates, not 50 like others.

21, clients and partners will flock to whichever firm pays its associates the most?

Ooookay.

Skadden pays its associates across the country $160k, which means that all the major clients and partners in second tier cities must be going to Skadden....oh wait...

I would rather take a salary cut over a generous salary than see my friends and self on the street. Perhaps firms like this did the salary cut to SAVE jobs -- only 12 associates, not 50 like others.

The ship be sinking...

What is a third tier firm? AmLaw 100-150?

This is getting difficult, criss-crossing the country and axing people all the time. But oh, how I love the "clunk" sound that heads make when they roll. And I'm earning lots of miles.

More layoffs coming, especially wherever Nervous Michigan 1L is summering.

Repent.

We'll see where the performing partners go, my guess is that they will take their clients to a firm that is not in a death spiral, rather than subsidize underperformers and make less money.....

SkaddenLA cuts associate salaries all the time. Ain't no thing.

#25 you are a commodity -- good luck.............

CobraLA!!!!!!!!

21: Are the dollar bills paid by "1st tier firms" greener than those used by other firms in the rest of the country? Are the dollar bills in NYC bigger or something? I just don't get it....

Some of us prefer pleasant working environments over $2 mil PPP hellholes, aka Aholes R US.

TTT.

Some of us prefer pleasant working environments over $2 mil PPP hellholes, aka Aholes R US.

But Skadden offers complimentary sphincter bleaching on Fridays.

37 - it's repend, douche.

#42: there are just more dollars....

Somebody shot my BABOON in his red ass!

I'll probably get my head taken off for this, but what the heck: Having worked at BigLaw for over 20 years before I retired, even I thought associate salaries were over the top. (Don't get me wrong, I didn't ever give any money back or offer to take less....) It's just a little difficult for me to get all worked up about pay cuts to an already bloated salary (and, yes, I do believe $120K and more to first year associates is excessive). So first years would get $100K instead? I'm not crying and neither should any lawyer who has a job.

Jason, you bother me because I just see you giggling to yourself as you write these dumbass comments. You're not funny. Responding with a joke about slashing me also won't be funny.

Logo bears an eerie (there's a pun here) similarity to Thacher Proffitt with the red underlined Roman..

Are the dollar bills in NYC bigger or something?
__________________________________________

No, just more numerous.

50 - your point is well taken. These "spoiled" kids have no idea how ridiculous it is to give someone right out of law school $160,000 per year, when they have no practical legal skills.

In China if a family has more than 1 lawyer they have to throw them into the Yangtze. I say chuck a couple into the East River and be done with it.

Hal Carpton

Has anyone else ever noticed that when you go to the web pages of firms like this (that is, regional firms), and you look at the profiles of the lawyers, a disproportionate number of them look "weird"? I am not prepared to back this up with a scientific study, but I often find that the lawyers on the web pages of V100 firms are on the whole more attractive than lawyers at firms like this (at least judging by the pics).

54 and 50--Partner salaries have been increasing at the same or greater rate as associate salaries. Firms have been passing on these costs to clients.

TTT.

Please report on the alleged Holland and Knight salary cuts.

Ok, 51, show me what you've got. Make me laugh. Tell a joke. Make it good, though, we'll all be judging you.

56: The majority of the lawyering profession looks weird. I'd say 60% have Aspergers.

Hypothesis: k&l gates will cut the salaries of some of the associates who are not laid off next week - Discuss.

50, 54 - yet despite their lack of legal skills, plenty of first year associates generate 3-4x their salary in revenue for their firms. there are firms with unsustainable business models, but there are others that will be fine. at those firms, there's nothing especially "over the top" or "ridiculous" about paying a salary with a seemingly low correlation to legal skills and expertise.

Hey, no one's allowed to make fun of Clevelanders except Pittsburghers. Go Stillers!

The Toledo Mud Hens totally rock!
/s/ M. Klinger

Paul Hastings raised salaries as planned. No word on bonuses yet though.

48 & 53: "more numerous," perhaps, but the COL far outweighs the extra dollar bills in your paycheck.

$125K in CLE = $275K in NYC. Good luck with that.

P.S.: if Lat did some f-ing homework, this site could be filled with more horror stories. Find a list of the top 10 firms of major mid-Atlantic and midwest cities and start making some phonecalls. Unfortunately, the bloodletting has not been confined to the NYC/DC mega-firms.

66: Paul hastings had lay offs

jones day is holding up there?

57, go back to Buis Orgs and learn about how partnerships work.

An employee of a partnership's pay isn't corrolated in any positive way to increased partnership earnings. You don't have equity. You work for whatever the wage is. If you think the wage is cheap, stop working.

Bitching about how the world is round is stupid. At least John Quinn spelled this out for associates who were too busy taking Chinese Law to learn how partners get paid.

-

On another note, expect more secondary and regional market firms to start whacking pay. It never made sense to pay in the Midwest as much or more as NYC was paying in 2003.

"Find a list of the top 10 firms of major mid-Atlantic and midwest cities and start making some phonecalls."

Agreed, I wouldn't even restrict the description to "major", Baltimore, Columbus, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Richmond, Charlotte (we already know that one), Triangle, Atlanta (obviously), as bad as Black Thursday was in the big markets, its been as bad in the "secondary" markets.

68: That's fine. I'd rather have more money. Those in real estate and corporate got much bigger bonuses than I did during the boom, so I'm sure that they saved up enough money to last until they find new jobs.

UPenn State has really been taking it on the chin lately. First Wolf Block, now Thompson Hine-all the firms that recruit on campus are slashing salaries and laying people off. Not a good time to be a UPenn Stater

@73, You're trying too hard

71 - any examples to back that up?

Massacre at Allen & Overy
http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2009/02/in-major-restructuring-allen-overy-to-cut-partners-associates-staff.html

They're killing 50 partners and 100 associates + 100 staff.

Wouldn't spinchter bleaching really irritate the lobsters?

No sticky in me Hine

No stickie in me Hine

@77 - probably -- Marin, don't do it!

As a senior level Cleveland associate (whose firm just laid off 11 staff on Tuesday) i would be more than happy to take a pay cut if it meant saving my job and others at my firm. Don't kid yourselves if you think Jones Day is in any better position just b/c they're bigger and better known. Squire Sanders did layoffs last week and I'm sure they will be coming at Baker & Hostetler (2 other Cleveland based international firms). And to the 2L at Cleveland Marshall, I suggest you make a career change now and save yourself the time and money b/c there arent going to be any jobs when you graduate and going to CSU is really not going to help you get a job, unless you want to be a judge.

#81 -- Squire Sanders & Baker & Hostetler --- they're 2nd/3rd tier cleveland . Jones Day may axe some schmucks, but at the end of the day they will be eating those firms lunch.

The current reality is that we are lucky to have jobs and benefits AT ALL. Salary cuts are preferable to terminations and I applaud the firms which are doing their best to take care of their employees. I believe that associate salaries were over the top in any case and now there is a necessary correction taking place. Whatever cut there was/is at ThompsonHine or anywhere else is most certaily a necessary part of managing a large law firm and being responsible for the livelyhood of all of its employees. We are in extremely difficult times; I think gratitude and cooperation along with hard work should replace the greed and selfishness which got us into this situation. A lucrative associate position is not a right; it is a privilege. Years ago it was absolutely seen that way. Perhaps as this new economic reality sets in it will be so again.

Complain about a 10% or 20% pay cut? How would you like to be one of the poor schmucks that took a 100% pay cut? Better yet, how about the poor secretary or paralegal with a couple of small children at home? Grow up.

Complain about a 10% or 20% pay cut? How would you like to be one of the poor schmucks that took a 100% pay cut? Better yet, how about the poor secretary or paralegal with a couple of small children at home? Grow up.

Complain about a 10% or 20% pay cut? How would you like to be one of the poor schmucks that took a 100% pay cut? Better yet, how about the poor secretary or paralegal with a couple of small children at home? Grow up.

To all those saying that salary cuts and/or freezes prevent layoffs, do you have any evidence of that?

Seems to me that nearly every firm that has trimmed compensation has also laid associates off. That suggests that the firms are halting comp gains for the productive employees and getting rid of the unproductive ones, and the punishment of the former associates isn't saving the hides of the latter ones.

Baker Cleve to 200k!

Jones Day Cleve to 300k!

Skadden NY to kiss my ass!

@81
I think Jones-Day is the next likely to go - they pay well above Cleveland "market" and I think it might come back to bite them. I think Baker will be the last to layoff, if they do at all. They carry no debt, short or long, and were the last to jump to Cleveland "market" -- they're conservative by nature.

Disclosure: I don't work at either of these firms.

LAYOFFS!?! DOn't blog about -- LAYOFFS?! You kiddin' me -- LAYOFFS?? I just hope Cleveland can win a game!

Fact check: Jones Day has NOT frozen salaries. Continues to pay its (admittedly mysterious) bonuses. Has a business model of 70 litigation/30 Corporate. Had its best year in terms of revenue last year. Has conducted no layoffs, stealth or official. Just saying.

I grew up in Cleveland (though I rarely admit it to people) and now live in NY. Baker, Jones Day, Squire and Thompson Hine are all old Cleveland firms dating back to the 1920s when Cleveland was actually one of the country's largest cities and actually had a significant amount of large companies. Most of these firms major clients have long since left Cleveland. With the exception of Jones Day which established a significant NY office long ago, these firms have been going downhill for a long time. The current economy has nothing to with their downfall, it just helped speed things along.

I grew up in Cleveland (though I rarely admit it to people) and now live in NY. Baker, Jones Day, Squire and Thompson Hine are all old Cleveland firms dating back to the 1920s when Cleveland was actually one of the country's largest cities and actually had a significant amount of large companies. Most of these firms major clients have long since left Cleveland. With the exception of Jones Day which established a significant NY office long ago, these firms have been going downhill for a long time. The current economy has nothing to with their downfall, it just helped speed things along.

87: To those making the cuts and implementing the freezes, it's not punishment. It's putting things right that past went wrongs, to wit, paying you associates bloated salaries that cut into profit margins. Think of it as Dr. Samuel Beckett leaping into the body of your managing partner to fix these mistakes. Your bloated salaries led us to raise rates to usurious levels that clients simply won't tolerate any longer. The fix is simple; reduce your pay. Our hands are tied with other fixed items, like rent, pension benefits and rates we intend to charge our clients. We simply cannot and willnot change those. In sum, windfall to me.

93 is a Kool-Aid drinker. Under JD's alleged "merit based" system (which is a joke insofar as "merit" is closely tied to seniority), certain associates did NOT receive a raise in 2009, despite the fact that the firm raised the billing rates of said associates. Also, numerous partners were demoted to "of counsel" in 2009.

97, tell me more about these partner 'demotions' at JD.

Arrogant..that's all I can say about the majority of posts here. From the disparaging comments about Cleveland and the Midwest to the 2L from CSU thinking a job is waiting at JD. It just confirms the stereotype most people have of lawyers: over-paid, over-indulged scum. The worst offenders seem to be those in the bubble of NYC who apparently haven't left the maternity ward yet and don't understand that there is a serious economic crisis having real effects on real people. I too applaud a Firm that actually looks to save as many jobs as it can via any means possible. Hey, it may not work but at least there is some civility in their actions. I suppose the arrogant, self obsessed, the "world spins in my direction" folks can go feel good about themselves while paying exorbitant prices to watch A-Roid and the Yankees while convincing themselves he really is a "kid" who made an honest mistake.

Search Jones Day Cleveland for Of Counsel. Should not be difficult to figure out the 10 or so partners who were "demoted."

Also, whoever said JD was 70/30 litigation/corporate is wrong. The firm is far more focused on corporate work. In fact, unless you have a vagina, you probably won't make parter in the litigation group. Repeat first paragraph exercise.

The Executive Director at Day Pitney, Steve Mauro, was the COO at Thompson Hine when they had staff layoffs in 2002 and 2003. Coincidence the layoffs were announced on the same day?

Thompson Hine didn't even pay market rate, and now they are going to be working just as hard as everyone else and getting paid even less. TH works asociates like dogs.

TH SUCKS. Skit night should be interesting.

This has been confirmed by the firm. The pay cut was $17,500.

Note the update added to the post. Here is the Am Law Daily item:

http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2009/02/thompson-hine-cuts-associate-pay.html

102, huh? Billables and actual hours at TH are low as hell, according to NALP.

Tell you what, you'd think this firm just shot itself in the foot with recruiting, but I can think of about 400 kids at CleMarsh/CWRU/OSU who'll be chomping at the bit to take 110, or whatever it is. They won't get many, you know, smart people for the 2011 class, but they'll still get people.