not first

This should be on the main ATL page in bold

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202428174244

This was mentioned previously on another thread but Baker Botts PPP increased by 5%

Elie, you should have made a quick graph with the PPP numbers of S&C, DPW, SAMF, WGM, CGSH, etc.

You think this is bad. Things are only going to get worse. Here is a song about the main cause of our future downfall:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTm5rp8r6fE&feature=related

You think this is bad. Things are only going to get worse. Here is a song about the main cause of our future downfall:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTm5rp8r6fE&feature=related

This is comment number 8, if it is not - somebody posted something that MysTTTal did not agree with.

The amount of hurt that DPW is actually feeling depends entirely on how much their prepaid expenses actually amount to (in the sense that they are uniquely prepaid, i.e. that no one else paid out the same things.) 17% seems like it's overstating the true amount of hurt they are feeling (possibly by a lot), but it's hard to really gauge how much so without knowing how much DPW actually did pay in advance.

Commenter #3:

While the article you reference raises some very interesting points, perhaps you should take a look at the author and his company to determine what kind of agenda he might be interested in promoting.

Since you didn't bother, I'll fill you in: he provides resources for general counsel to do business with third party outsourcers, contract attorneys, etc. So of course he is crying wolf--by doing so he drives people to think his company is the innovator in "where this is all going," and he makes more money.

So don't be too quick to suggest the legal world is about to be turned on its head. There is a lot the author doesn't address--such as whether hiring the outsource company to do diligence on the cheap will really offer banks the same protection from securities laws that hiring the big law firm will.

Anyway, it's any interesting piece and the law firm model is likely to change (overdue in my opinion), but let's not overlook this guy's agenda--which is promote his company, which ** shocker ** happens to do exactly what he suggests the future will be.

so !@#$ing pissed at myself for choosing DPW over latham

If my firm for next summer sent valentines day care packages, is it safe to assume they're doing ok?

SkaddenLA is getting hit the hardest.

Biggest news of 2009: I predict that W & C will fold.

Dewey gets dropped from ATL headline?

DPW had 8 new partners in 2008. That's probably why its PPP suffered the most.

Could someone tell me if this is excellent news for me?

Any layoffs from DPW?

DPW is such a TTT ---> PPP is less than Skadden and roughly equal to LaTTTham. DPW will be the new Latham.

12, is your firm V&E?

Yes, there have been layoffs at DPW - but super-stealth.

SkaddenLA is being treated like a red headed step child by the other branches. Morale is in the toilet.

NYC biglaw rules!!!!! Vault rules!!!!

Former DPDubber here, Given DPW is so heavily reliant on its securities practice (DPW is more securities focused than even S&C, let alone Skadden) it's not surprising that they've had a hard year. It also doesn't help that their #1 client, Morgan Stanley, hasn't been able to get in on the big M&A deals (for a variety of reasons).

In the long run, I wouldn't be too worried about the firm. It still has the top practice in its core areas, especially high-end securities areas like converts. It's still been able to attract some extremely good partners as lateral hires. If the firm's long-term outlook didn't look strong, I doubt they would have been able to get Anne Nazareth to come back from the SEC.

20 - no

20- did V&E send Valentines Day care packages? What did you get?

So, S&C's profits per partner declined 3.7% to $2.94 million. Skadden's profits per partner declined by 5.4% to $2.04 million.

Skadden still paid out bonuses starting at $35k. Sullivan paid out starting at $17.5k.

It's official- Sullivan screwed its associates. DO NOT WORK AT S&C. You will work more hours on average than every firm except Wachtell and Cravath. You will be paid less than Skadden. In dollars per hours, S&C associates come out way below almost everyone.

DO NOT WORK AT S&C.

Just going by the RPL numbers (probably the only useful figure here), I wouldn't be too worried. S&C is down 7.5% in RPL, while DPW is down nearly 10% (Skadden is down 5%). DPW had a harder year than S&C, but not that much harder. It's not going anywhere.

This blog is really turning into shit. This website is much better:

http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/

I agree with 27- people here are furious. We can't go anywhere because of the recession, but I have personally talked to three other associates who are at least contemplating leaving as soon as they can. Working at S&C is all-consuming and stressful. We give up seeing our families and we give up our health, and our firm pays us less than Skadden, which has partners making ALMOST A MILLION LESS.

I can't wait for recruiting season. I will seriously tell people NOT to come here.

27: Skadden profts per partner were down 9.5%, net was down 5.4%. So S&C actually screwed you even more than you thought.

so why did DPW pre-pay? and was it unusual for them to do so?

Man. Maybe Skadden's reputation needs to be rethought. That's awfully...good of them.

DPW and Latham are finished in this town. FINISHED!!!

Skadden to 190!

Why was this posted so late in the day even though a commenter on another thread pointed to this article much earlier in the day? I expect more from atl and it looks like I will have to look elsewhere to get the news more promptly.

S&C is finished too.

2009: the year biglaw died

Dear Associates,

The firm appreciates all of your dedication during these trying times. As a leader in the financial services industry we were at the forefront of the current whirlwind. However, the current economic climate requires us to all make difficult adjustments. To that effect, the firm will be paying a half-Skadden bonus to all associates.

P.S.: Fuck you, thanks for the 3 million, bitches!! Sorry you were too dumb to work at Skadden. Hope the "prestige" was worth it. I know it was for me.

*drives off in Ferrari, buys third vacation home*

-Sullivan Partner

DPW added 8 new partners in 2008 while S&C only added 3. DPW's client Morgan Stanley's market share in M&A has slipped. Prepayment of some expenses might also hurt their numbers. Their RPL is still pretty strong so no worry.

where's the RPL info? the article doesn't state how other peer firms are doing w/ rpl

It's also worth noting that prepaying likely allows the DPW partners to (i) optically look more like they took one for the team to justify paying lower bonuses and (ii) write off those prepaid expenses in FY2008 and reduce their income taxes payable in 2008 (allowing them to book larger profits in Jan 2009 and defer paying taxes on those until 2010). That said, I'm not a tax lawyer, so I'm not sure (ii) works, but I'm pretty sure it does..

34, why do you think this? I agree that PPP at DPW and Latham is roughly the same now, but how is this going to affect clients?

41-

34, like everyone else posting this nonsense, is not serious...these firms will all be okay long-term. everyone's hurting now.

Philly laW is aBout to get even worse

Bonuses in 2009 = $0.00. Cravath's suggestion will become reality.

DPW prepaid expenses because it's a conservative firm and this what the partnership thought would be prudent. 40, it has nothing to do with (i).

This chart really says it all:

http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1202427137779

26, no V&E doesn't send Valentine's day care packages. I believe they send them around Christmas and then again around finals time.

elie, you suck so fucking much. can't you do more than just copy and paste another article that was posted in a comment hours ago?

write something or get the hell out of this business. you were a bad lawyer and you're a worse blogger (which is fucking pathetic).

I think a dose of reality is in order here: Law firms are pulling back from -- wait for it -- RECORD PROFITS. So what if profits fall 5, 10, even 20% (ok, yeah, latham really sucks), PPP is still at historical highs. The model isn't broken, it just is coming down off its binge.

If the economy stays in the crapper for another year or two, bankruptcy and advisory work will pick up greatly. Will this replace all those deal premiums? Nope. But it certainly help set a revenue floor for the firm, and maintain the need for (smaller) armies of drones.

In terms of associates -- 7th yrs and up: bye bye. 4-6 yrs: I like your chances, you know just enough to be valuable, and the firm will need you for the bounce. Juniors: you have 1 yr (max) before the "I'm just paying off my loans" crowd is pushed out.

46 - if s&c and dpw financials got hit this badly in 2008 -- a year when things were pretty damn strong through Sept -- then they're gonna BURN in 2009!!! plus, s&c and dpw enjoyed some good bailout work in oct-dec 2008, and they're financials STILL dropped. they're dead in 2009.

Since there are no ipos and few secondary offerings, what exactly does dpw do these days? dpw might as well lay off 30% of its associates now and be done with it.

27 & 30--you strike me as whiny. The goal of a firm is to maximize profits for the profits (i.e. the shareholders). You got a bonus; you still have your jobs. You may work long hours but S&C is much better placed to weather this downturn than nearly any other firm out there. Chill out dudes--take a schvitz, have some sushi, enjoy life.

P.S. Anyone who gives up their health for a law firm is an idiot or is not planning his or her time right. S&C has a well appointed gym in the ground floor level (replete with a private trainer, fruit and bottled water). Carve out the time in your day for it. If this President and the last could take an hour a day for exercise, so can you. The S-8 can wait.

associates at DPW satellite offices like Menlo Park had better watch out... i bet a $1.00 there won't be 58 names on the website in 3 months

What about the other members of the V10? When do those numbers get released?

53= asswipe 1L. "Members of the V10"?

Considering that PPP hit record highs in 2007 and have been increasing in the past 5 years at rate much, much higher than inflation, these numbers are not surprising at all. Deflation is a bitch.

52:
Latham, Cleary Gottlieb, Weil already released their financials. Of course, Latham won't be a "member of the v10" for very much longer.

SkaddenLA is the new SkaddenDC. What office shall we pick on next? I vote Houston.

Dear ATL,

You originally started off as a blog that advocated for associates. You did a great job of "shaming" firms into raising to $160,000. However, there is now a raise to the bottom and ATL is unwittingly encouraging it.

Firms averaging 2 million dollars in ppp should not be mocked. In essence, all you are doing is encouraging firms to layoff more associates and hire more staff attorneys in order to increase ppp. On a side note, ppp are much higher now than they were ten years ago during a great economy. I think most big firm law associates would be very happy with that kind of money.

Constantly posting which firms did lay-offs while praising firms and "understanding" firms that do lay-offs also encourages other firms to cut associates. There is no reason that firms should be cutting first and second year associates. If corporate is slow, ask if they are willing to switch to bankruptcy or litigation. Very few firms are suffering "real" economic difficulties. You have a situation where a few firms have collapsed based mainly on partner greed. Firms provide a service. Thus if profits are a little lower, there is no danger of being stuck with "merchandise" that is unsellable, it just means that like everyone else in this economy that you may cut back a little. Instead, by ATL's focus on ppp, more partners than usual at firms that are a little slow are jumping ship. This is greedy and a little short-sighted. Basically a few higher-producing partners at places at Hellerman Erman jumped ship causing he whole place to go under and hundreds of associates to lose their jobs. ATL, should be focusing on this, instead of making a big deal about drops in ppp, which are still relatively high.

I had not heard about these results from DPW before readng this post, but it now makes sense what the headhunter who called me on monday said. she mentioned that she was being inundated with resumes from three firms at the moment: DPW, S&C and Cleary. she said they were all relatively seniorish associates whose resumes she was receiving. apparently quite a number of seniorish associates at those firms are being quietly asked to leave. now it all makes sense .. at least for DPW

OCEANS RISE

CITIES FALL

QUINN REMAINS

KLGates laying off on a break neck pace!! March and April will be bloody.

It's time for associates to do what they can to protect themselves. Star associates should seek to lateral to Skadden. Reward firms that treat associates well and punish firms that don't. It's time to lose the antiquated notion of "prestige" divorced from compensation. It's prestigious to get paid well.

58 - two things.

1. RACE to the bottom. Race.

2. "This is greedy and a little short-sighted" - Welcome to ATL.

RPL is a much better indicator than PPP. DPW's RPL is still higher than Skadden despite being hurt a lot more by the frozen capital market

Houston here. Our PPP were up 15%. Good thing our COL is so low or we'd be living like New Yorkers.

62- Oooohhh, yeah, you should quit RIGHT NOW and show your nasty firm what a star you are when you lateral to Skadden as a managing partner. D-bag.

63, thanks for the heads-up. I didn't proofread but whether I said race or raise it does not in anyway change the points I made.

58-
Great diagnosis of what went wrong at "Hellerman Erman." Shmuck.

http://www.law.com/special/professionals/amlaw/amlaw200/amlaw200_ppp.html In 1998, only 17 firms had ppp over a $1 million dollars. One of those firms, Robins, Kaplan was a bit of a fluke. So basically only 16 firms had ppp over a $1 million and now we are going to bemoan ppp of $2 million.

the firm's that "went up" in PPP (cleary, weil, etc.) all have lower RPL than the firms that dropped discussed in this post.

DPW's RPL is second only to S&C so far. Everyone needs to take a deep breath.

68, you are a moron. You are either a Heller partner or a retarded associate. Heller Ehrman isn't even worth knowing the spelling of. They screwed their associates.

"Partner defections in today’s world are far more common. There is less loyalty to the firm. Strong firm cultures bonding lawyers together are harder to find. “Free agency” is the rule of the day. One’ personal compensation is the top priority ... and the RPP (revenue per partner) and PPP (profits per partner) are the most important metrics being considered when thinking about the location of one’s practice. As in baseball, free agency will strip many stars away from a law firm. In Heller’s case, once the rumors of economic challenges and partner dissatisfaction were ripe, law firms and head hunters came knocking. Once a few left, more left; then the landslide began ... just as on Wall Street recently."
http://www.lawbizblog.com/2008/10/articles/management/heller-ehrman-business-as-usual-or-a-disaster-waiting-to-happen/

So basically a few greedy partners leaving to increase their profits helped caused the whole firm (which was doing a little less well but otherwise would have been fine )to go under.

How long until the majority of Sullivan's Financial Institutions Group (FIG) associates lateral to Skadden? I'll be applying as soon as I think the economy improves enough that Skadden starts taking laterals again.

Help? What are Kirklands numbers?

Latham haters (and I know you're out there),

First, look at these numbers for overall revenue and RPL: http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1202427137779

Next,keep in mind that although PPP went down from $2.27mm to $1.8mm, Latham added THIRTY (30) new partners this year. Compare that to 3 for S&C and 8 for DPW, even though they are smaller firms. For the same ratio of lawyers to new partners, S&C has around 900 lawyers (let's say, I'm not even sure), while Latham has about twice as many, or 2,100. Even if you tripled S&C, you would have only added nine partners. Clearly the PPP number is easily manipulated: don't make new partners!

Basically, people are freaking out when PPP changes so much, but there are many other metrics for measurement. The sky may be falling, but others are just better are manipulating the numbers. What is truly impressive is Skadden's performance. Incredible revenue (still) and profits, while giving all their associates higher bonuses than almost every peer firm. Kudos, they made some smart decisions and clearly seem to be healthy. Remember, their PPP would be significantly higher (I'd posit around 0.2 or 0.3 mm higher) if they had matched everyone else. Maybe we should do an apples to apples comparison?

Ok, I understand that there is a serious discussion regarding V10 firms going on right now but I just need to interrupt for one second:

Does anyone know how to get my chode unstuck from the garbage disposal?

Serious replies only pls. Thx.

Here's a thought: instead of copying and pasting information give us original, useful content.

Here's another thought: create a graphic that compares PPP over x years to associate compensation. It could be an average PPP however many firms you deem fit, or a comparison between different firms. The associate compensation metric could be first year salaries, with or without bonuses, but preferably with. (Other associate salaries could also be used for the same purpose).

Skadden has even given you a hand
http://www.skadden.com/content/sitefiles/Skadden_88A4B9FB5220CF7A8BC0A1AB8E3AD10D.pdf
page 4 has a chart tracking skadden ppp and amlaw 100 ppp from 2000 forward

Let's see you run some numbers and make a chart.

These firms felt the capital markets decline more acutely than such New York counterparts as Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton, which reported a 12 percent rise in profits per partner; Weil, Gotshal & Manges, which rode the strength of its restructuring practice to a 7.5 percent rise in PPP; and Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison, where profits per partner rose 2.3 percent to $2.65 million.

ALL THE JEW FIRMS ARE GETTING RICH WHILE THE POOR WASPS ARE GASPING FOR AIR

I don't really have much to add regarding the topic of this thread, but I love the use of the "Monopoly man."

PPP is not a completely truthful and even useful metric, I agree with 75.

First off, what standard of accounting are the firms using? Who is auditing the numbers? For all we know, they could be made up. Show me the moral hazard in reporting false numbers...there is none.

Think about it: If DPW was actually on a cash basis, then maybe the prepayments would make sense. On the same token, if another firm decided to DELAY December and even November cash payments, they would artificially inflate their revenue and have fewer expenses.

Further, the manipulation of partner ranks (attrition, forced retirement, election) would have a very real and profound effect on the number. So 75's analysis, while incomplete, brings up an important point.

Basically, people are using these numbers to compare when we have no transparency into accounting practices or any other ideas of whether firms are truly comparable An expanding firm with increasing partners will suffer very negatively, while a closed firm with few elections (and hence less chances for most people who read this board to make it) will show the best performance.

75 - how many of the 30 partners were laterals that brought in significant books of business and thereby added to the overall PPP? There's a chance Latham could be reporting even worse PPP numbers without the additional partners.

81,

75 here. Go to the website. It announced the election (promotion) of 30 new partners.

you people don't know how many partners left latham. you need that info too.

is this shit true?

http://www.blackbooklegal.com --- site is talking about *#@ing industry downsizing and restructuring. I have roughly $50000 in debt at a T30, dont know what I will do if I cannot land a biglaw pos.

If firms like DPW and S&C are losing clout in this market, everyone else must be screwed.

Having worked there, I can tell you that DPW is one of the few firms whose partners actually do still have strong firm loyalty. I can't imagine them leaving for Skadden or anywhere else even at the prospect of a slightly higher profits.

Uhhhh 85, that's because dpw partners are built on the "service partner" model whereby they don't develop their own clients but simply attach themselves to a senior partner who once was a service partner themselves. so they have no books of business to take to any other firm even if they did want to leave. dpw's clients are firm clients not partner clients. so yeah, uh call it loyalty or call it a total inability to move because they have no marketable book.

CATS: DPW are on the way to destruction.

Captain: What you say !!

CATS: You have no chance to survive make your time.

Can someone explain to me how associates bonuses were considered prepaid in 2008? DPW pays out bonuses at the end of the year, in December, and not in 2009.

Can someone explain to me how associates bonuses were considered prepaid in 2008? DPW pays out bonuses at the end of the year, in December, and not in 2009.

I don't have any particular knowledge about how DPW finances work, but using made-up numbers:

By my calculation, prepaying a month's rent and associate bonuses alone would account for approximately $20M, or about a third of the decrease in profits.

S&C of course has an advantage in NY in that they more or less own their building, so they don't need to worry about prepaying rent.

I wish Cravath would hurry up and release its numbers so we can have someone else to pick on besides good ol' Davis Polk. What did DPW ever do to you?

58
Are you kidding?
- ATL is a legal blog that reports news and events in the legal industry. It didn't start as a vehicle to advocate for associates. You didn't complain and find it boring last year when there were daily announcements of firms going to $160K. Deal with the daily announcements of lower firm profits, lay offs and salary freezes. You are fooling yourself if you think the management of firms are making these decisions based on seeing it on ATL. And by the way, ATL helped accelerate the current economic situation that law firms are facing by "shaming" firms into increase associate salaries. Reduced bonuses, salaries freezes and layoffs are reactions to the market and what it will bear, just like increasing salaries and paying special bonuses were last year.
- A service business may not have "merchandise" sitting on the shelves, but it certainly has inventory in the form of underutilzed associates and partners that need to get paid. The only difference is that it doesn't cost much to store a widget on a shelve, but it costs $160k/yr + to store a new law school grad, who has never practiced law, in an office.

S&C fucked its associates out of bonuses, it's as simple as that. It's the Vault 5 to avoid.

86: Are you really that stupid? You obviously know nothing about Davis Polk...or any cohesive, lock-step firm.

In fact, Davis Polk has never lost a partner to another firm IN IT'S ENTIRE HISTORY. That's pretty amazing. It's obviously not because no DPW partner has ever been able to go elsewhere.

(See "http://www.bmacewen.com/blog/archives/2005/11/the_optimal_par.html")

For the record, I've never worked at DPW.

it would be useful if someone prepared a chart of PPP at the top firms over the past 20 yrs, and headcount. Then you fuctards would see that going from 1.1 million in 1999 to 2 million or so in 2008 (for example) was, golly, pretty damn good....

Dumbasses - no wonder we need to fire so many in the "raise" to the bottom...

I'm sure John W. Davis is churning in his grave.

I mean, a black president?

94 is an IDIOT
see http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202421984828 for a partner defection from DPW to Latham last year

This may be why DPW took the unusual step of bringing in a lateral bankruptcy service partner a few weeks ago. Huebner's been doing the low-billing "prestigious" bailout stuff, but they need a solid debtor case they can throw bodies and hours at. They got one, the Star Tribune, but Sidley and even Simpson have snagged more, to say nothing of Weil and Kirkland.

With Wall Street work drying up, its going to be bloody year in NYC.

i dont understand these horrific declines in ppp at all!!!!

Didn't these firms hire tons of summers even after the credit bubble burst in august (august first actually) 2007? Where are all these first years who were summers in 2008, coming on line in just a few short months, going to find work?

97, that is still the only partner ever to defect from DPW.

So, S&C's profits per partner declined 3.7% to $2.94 million. Skadden's profits per partner declined by 5.4% to $2.04 million.

Skadden still paid out bonuses starting at $35k. Sullivan paid out starting at $17.5k.

It's official- Sullivan screwed its associates. DO NOT WORK AT S&C. You will work more hours on average than every firm except Wachtell and Cravath. You will be paid less than Skadden. In dollars per hours, S&C associates come out way below almost everyone.

DO NOT WORK AT S&C.

27, 30, and 93 are all credited. Even the fucking snack room at S&C is sucking hard these days. Something I'd be fine with, if they paid me well for my 2600 mind breaking client billables for 2008. Assholes.

With all the bright people on this site, why hasn't one of them figured out that forming a union of BigLaw associates and negotiating a labor agreement giving associates an agreed on percentage of the firms' income (and providing basic working conditions) would not be that difficult? And it would provide an alternative career path...fat cat union leader for life.

Hey 101 - Actually Steve Lofchie took the broker-dealer practice from DPW to CWT in 2006.

As a current (although only for about 6 more weeks) DPW'er I need to respond to comment 29 - Nazareth came back home because she needed a place to hang out until she gets named to a new post. Her name is already being mentioned for other government positions. Comments 50 and 59 are right on the mark - DPW has already laid off 30% of associates in some groups and partners are acting "surprised" that the DPW name alone on your resume does not grant you an instant offer from someplace else in this market.

103 - because the only associates who really matter (ie., the top 3%) don't need a union as they will be promoted to partner soon enough.

The system rewards merit, hard work and the ability to sell services.

104 - which groups would that be?
the "numbers" of associates in the DPW website haven't gone down over the past few months; they've fluctuated up and down (i check this for a few firms, and yes i have that much time on my hands).

104:

Don't be ridiculous. DPW is no charity. The partners don't share millions of profits with Nazareth just so she could hang out at the firm until she finds her next government post.

How about STB? I heard that they only have about 70 summers this year. DPW & SC still have over 100. Either they are stupider than STB or things are not as bad.

95-58 here

I already acknowledged that I did not proofread the post. When you have a memo to send out, proofreading an ATL post is not a priority. A few typos does not take away from the crux of my argument: that partners are still doing quite well in the current environment and thus, many of the layoffs are do to partner greed rather than a true doomsday scenario and that ATL should be calling firms out on this rather than making a big deal about a drop in ppp.

108- S&C hired between 70 and 80 summers. Don't know where you get your information. Apparently you are "stupider."

dpw has > 100

108- is that just for NY or total?

110

S&C hired 107 summers for 2009. DPW hired 108.

SRZ at at 2.3 million per partner, with no pay freeze and decent (slightly above market) bonus structure. Move over DPW.

I am a fiscal conservative.

Anyone who would choose not to work at S&C is out of their mind.

How much did Cravath cut back on summers after ruining themselves last year?

I chose Cahill over S&C and never looked back.

OMM just announced results via voicemail. Revenue = $907M, compared to $934M last year -- a decline of 3%. PPP (equity) = $1.52M, compared to $1.635M last year, a decline of 7%.

Dewey seems to have done just fine, but left out of the headline and discussion. And Dewey had more than 20 new partners if you count laterals.

The ship be sinking...

Any idea when Wachtell reports? I imagine their ppp will be the highest, as usual.

118 - have you heard if there have been any layoffs at Cahill recently?

The system rewards merit, hard work and the ability to sell services.
__________________________________________

This is pure comedy gold. Keep it up, 105!

merit. blah blah... hard work.... blah blah.... the great "ability to sell services".... and then what you will be immortal - with impressions of yrs palms on the wall st. hall of fame [sic] - replace f with "sh" - no matter what we do we remain mortal - now thats a humbling thought - I like that

You guys need to step back and analyze the numbers. DPW's RPL is $1.23 million, with an associate-partner ratio of 2.9. By contrast, Cleary's RPL is $970K, with an associate-partner ratio of 4.2.

This basically means that on average, each DPW lawyer makes 25% more revenue than a Cleary lawyer, but DPW's PPP is still less than Cleary because DPW promotes more partners per associate!

You tell me which type of firm do you want to work in.

Btw, I have nothing at all against Cleary - I just used them for illustrative purposes because their PPP went up.

You guys need to step back and analyze the numbers. DPW's RPL is $1.23 million, with an associate-partner ratio of 2.9. By contrast, Cleary's RPL is $970K, with an associate-partner ratio of 4.2.

This basically means that on average, each DPW lawyer makes 25% more revenue than a Cleary lawyer, but DPW's PPP is still less than Cleary because DPW promotes more partners per associate!

You tell me which type of firm do you want to work in.

Btw, I have nothing at all against Cleary - I just used them for illustrative purposes because their PPP went up.

117: cravath will have 122 summers this year, about the same number as last year

Everyone comparing S&C and Skadden bonuses are fooling themselves. Don't think for a minute that if Skadden waited a few weeks to announce bonuses, and saw what the market was doing, that they wouldn't have also paid "half-Skadden"

Skadden is limiting its summer associates to 12 weeks this summer, while at DPW you can work up to 14... just saying.

Skadden is limiting its summer associates to 12 weeks this summer, while at DPW you can work up to 14... just saying.

86 and 91 are both more or less right. Although 91 is wrong on the details about DPW never losing any partners, he is right that overall there have been very, very few defections, and more than most firms, the partners are encouraged to rely on institutional relationships and reputation and not to put too much stress on rainmaking. Whether this will work in the next few years is a good question.

The claim about "pre-payments" impacting their profits seems a little dubious to me. But presumably DPW accounts on a cash basis like most law firms, and if you expect profits to be higher in 2008 than they will be in 2009, it may make sense from a tax perspective to help avoid a big hit in take home pay for partners. Normally they would not do this notwithstanding the potential tax benefit, because it will impact their reported PPP, but in this case, talking about the pre-payment helps obscure how bad 2008 was, and will help make 2009 look better.

My friends who spent their early careers at S&C have told me stories that shocked my conscience. They're pure evil. You would not want to work there unless the financial rewards were tremendous compared to their peers (or unless you're a bit of an asshole yourself and will feel right at home.)

86 and 91 are both more or less right. Although 91 is wrong on the details about DPW never losing any partners, he is right that overall there have been very, very few defections, and more than most firms, the partners are encouraged to rely on institutional relationships and reputation and not to put too much stress on rainmaking. Whether this will work in the next few years is a good question.

The claim about "pre-payments" impacting their profits seems a little dubious to me. But presumably DPW accounts on a cash basis like most law firms, and if you expect profits to be higher in 2008 than they will be in 2009, it may make sense from a tax perspective to help avoid a big hit in take home pay for partners. Normally they would not do this notwithstanding the potential tax benefit, because it will impact their reported PPP, but in this case, talking about the pre-payment helps obscure how bad 2008 was, and will help make 2009 look better.

My friends who spent their early careers at S&C have told me stories that shocked my conscience. They're pure evil. You would not want to work there unless the financial rewards were tremendous compared to their peers (or unless you're a bit of an asshole yourself and will feel right at home.)

corrected—Skadden recently laid off staff positions, including legal assistants, staff attorneys, and secretaries. The partners voted on bonuses that set the industry high this past December while the economy was in turmoil. Then, less than one month later, the partners voted to reduce the staff positions. Now, I am sleepless and jobless although I have sent out countless resumes, just so the partners and associates can continue to inflate their already inflated bank accounts. This is corporate greed at its best. Another AIG!! Is this what we consider “thinking big”. If so, I guess I need to find another profession Mr. Sheehan and Skadden et al..

Skadden recently laid off staff positions, including legal assistants, staff attorneys, and secretaries. The partners voted on bonuses that set the industry high this past December while the economy was in turmoil. Then, less than one month later, the partners voted to reduce the staff positions. Now, I am sleepless and jobless although I have sent out countless resumes, just so the partners and associates can continue to inflate their already inflated bank accounts. This is corporate greed at its best. Another AIG!! Is this what we consider “thinking big”. If so, I guess I need to find another profession Mr. Sheehan and Skadden et al..