I was laid off. I'm so depressed.

LathamClassAction@gmail.com

If you have been laid off, counseled out, or asked to leave Latham & Watkins for any reason since January 1, 2009, please email LathamClassAction@gmail.com.

Please indicate your name, position, class level if an associate, and office.

If you have already signed a waiver of your right to sue, you may not be eligible for this class.

LathamClassAction@gmail.com

So is not mentioning Kirkland in this layoff summary as close as we are going to get to a retraction of yesterday's story?

Good post for context. 1800 attorneys in 2009 is incredible.

I work at an AMLaw 30 firm that had a good 2008 and has supposedly been doing OK in 2009 and yesterday was a strange day. For the first time I saw both partners and associates visably shaken after the Latham news broke. Confirms for me that the fear and panic has set in at all levels.

Orrick is having big layoffs next week as soon as people finalize their hours for February.

Elie, thanks for this.

I am curious to know more about this Latham class action.

I am curious to know more about this Latham class action.

Paul Weiss stealth layoffs to begin next week

6, How do you know this?

I second 11's comment. How do you know this?

Elie, you fat turd, your writing style is absolutely atrocious. Did you really go to law school? God, seems almost impossible to believe.

Lat, time to use the political cover provided by all the law firm layoffs and trim the "fat" at ATL.

Why do you compare A&O's total layoff numbers, but leave out the prior layoffs at L&W?

L&W, Americas most firingest law firm!!!

14 here. Sorry for the grammatical mistakes, but I've got to talk to Elie in a form of the English language he understands.

I was laid off and am so very depressed.

6, I've heard the same thing. What office are you in?

16 - Have you considered something in the fast food industry?

Elie, you fat turd, I understand you're to be laid off shortly. Could you give 16 some other tips please? Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to speak in a form of English you understand. Let me try again -- Elie, you fat turd, yous nos be working no more, rightum, no? Maybes yous coulds helpings 16 with telllings of where yous want working?

18 - I'm in the NY office, but rumor is that no office will be spared. If rumor is to be believed, these cuts will make Latham's look like a walk in the park and without the uber-generous severance packages.

- 6

Sorry, meant to address 17 in my last post.

- 6

I have not 18. I'd kill self before that.

Fuck you 18, you racist pig. Leave poor Elie alone. He's fat and stupid and couldn't string words together into a sentence if his life depended on it, but is nevertheless a shining example for black people to follow. When all is said and done, he is as inspirational, indeed, perhaps even more so, than Obama, Powell and Bill Cosby.

ATL please stop focusing almost exclusively on layoffs. I appreciate that your coverage of Layoff & Watkins got associates better severance packages. That said, you are also giving the false impression that every firm is engaged in massive layoffs when the majority of v-100 firms are not. Thus, you are almost encouraging more firms to do layoffs i.e. if Latham cut 10%, we can cut 5% of associates and not worry about any bad pr.

Maybe the class action people should include those laid off from Latham in January. The word is that it was a disproportionate amount of women that fell in that first cut. And the "performance based" reasoning doesn't hold up. The managing partner tried to brush it under the rug by saying that the number of women made up less than 90% of that cut, so the firm wasn't concerned about any gender bias. Those individuals got screwed when compared to the current layoffs. They only got three months with no separate vacation cash out. First and second years with practically no time at the firm are being given a huge payout by comparison. Way to reward years of service and loyalty. The firm should have given everybody the same package.

LathamClassAction@gmail.com

If you have been laid off, counseled out, or asked to leave Latham & Watkins for any reason since January 1, 2009, please email LathamClassAction@gmail.com.

Please indicate your name, position, class level if an associate, and office.

If you have already signed a waiver of your right to sue, you may not be eligible for this class.

LathamClassAction@gmail.com

23 = retard. Did you notice that every legal daily/weekly covers the layoffs as well?

Orrick tipsters - any specifics on the layoffs?

27 - More than Latham.

It is both with pleasue and sadness that I read these comments and the news in the legal industry. First, I am an equity partner at a larger Midwest law firm. Go ahead with the TTT comments, but I went to top 5 law school and top 10 undergrad. And my future is secure, unlike many of you.

But that is not the reason for the comments I leave. I find pleasure in so many associates now understanding the economics of the law. You throw words around like "half-Skadden" or bonus as it is your birthright. Here is the math you need to understand: 1/3 + 1/3+ 1/3. 1/3 for you, 1/3 for me (me as in the partners) and 1/3 for overhead, etc. Now, the reason for many of the layoffs is this. My 1/3 is being reduced to cover the 1/3 for overhead, since receipts are down. The only option is to cut or eliminate your 1/3. Also, A/R (that is accounts receivable or money owed to firm) is up, which means I have to borrow more to pay you. That can only last for so long.

I find sadness in many of you making comments about partners (oh, so and so is just a Kirkland non-equity, etc.) and clients, as if you ever had a client. You act like getting a client of 1.0mm or more is that easy. It is not. YOu have to fight and claw every day. It is the pride swallowing seige that Jerry McGuire described. But it is a sacrifice I am wiling to make for my bride and 3 kids. What sacrifice have you made for the good of the firm and yourself - and I don't mean giving up the second non-fat latte at Starbucks? The law is a jealous mistress, and it is sad that too many of you have this sense of entitlement, rather than honest intellectual curiosity of the law.

So, it is with pleasure that the associates now receive their comeuppance. It is with sadness that many of you still don't get it and will continue to snipe and bitch, but never do anything to move the proverbial ball.

Snipe away. But know this. I will get paid next month. And when many of you try to come to the Midwest with your tales of working on the big deal or the huge piece of litigation and all of the experience you have, please remember that being the 7th person on the deal does not make you a player, nor does being one of 30 associates researching footnotes for a brief mean you get to argue to the Supreme Court. I had my first trial (solo) a month after I was sworn in, and have conducted ine xcess of 400 depositions. That is experience, not what you bring to the table. Life will go on for many of you. But get some experience before you start complaining about not getting paid.

Shaft

P.S. Ha Haa Haaa Haaaa

"This post, written by Lawshucks and cross posted here, is what we hope will be a new weekend feature on the week that was."

--While it should be a noted since the bloodletting will likely continue, I sure don't hope it will become a weekend "feature." Shmuck.

19, you're scaring the hell out of me. I'm in DC and it seems like everyone is billing. If they fire a bunch of us the survivors are going to be billing 2500+.

29 - That sound great for you - congrats! By the way, when you're away conducting your 400 depositions, I'm banging both your wife and your college-going daughter - together.

26=moron. Do you not notice that most associates and partners at law firms don't read these legal magazines that you refer to? Partners do read atl and do make decisions based on it. Remember the race to $160,000? I had a partner reference ATL in my review in talking about the state of the legal market.

33 = epic fail.

Plenty of partners read amlaw and NYLJ every day.

So I guess before ATL came about, partners were completely clueless about salary raises or layoffs at other firms?

29 - Wow, you must HATE your life to spend your all-important time telling all the anonymous first- and second-years the ways of the world, then laughing at them to boot. I'm guessing your "bride" and your neighbor's kids probably don't like you, thus the reason for your Saturday afternoon post.

I also like how you told them that having a name on a resume doesn't mean squat, just a couple paragraphs after you showed us how legit you are by stating your T5 law school and T10 undergrad pedigree. Man, you are my idol.

You know, the substance of your post actually made sense and was somewhat informative. However, your tone and cheesey comments like "the law is a jealous mistress" loses the audience, quickly. Also, Jerry McGuire is from 1996. Get a clue.

Signed,

Chicago 2nd Year Who Farts in Your Office

35, so you basically liked the content of his post and felt it was informative, but you nevertheless felt the need to insult him by making ad hominem attacks and pointing out minor inconsistencies?

You must be a blast at parties.

Exactly. And the ladies love me.

- 35

19, are they going to cut some partners?

29 - John is that you?

Dear Ivy League Law Students:
The path to future partner profitability will be paved with the blood of ivy league douche bags when firms start shedding these six figure associates faster than they can cringe at the prospect of mere middle class mediocrity. I for one welcome this upheaval as a TTT attendee, which according to the posts on this site, leaves me nowhere to go but up. In contrast, it is a long, degrading fall from grace for those self aggrandizing ivy league elitists out there. On the bright side though, such a superior education should go a long way in drafting a regal student loan deferment request.
Sincerely,
Rutgers Law StudenTTT

I wonder if the ladies love Elie's rolls of blubber or his grammatically incorrect dirty talk.

32 wins comment of the year. Hilarious!

The truly scary part is that the tracker is not accurate and only reflects what has been publicly announced and owned up to by the firms. The tracker does not account for all of the stealth/performance related layoffs that have, and are, occurring. I would not be surprised if the real number is more like double of what has been reported in 2009.

I honestly have no idea what the face of the legal profession will look like when this is over. I have been fortunate enough to avoid the layoffs for now but this whole process has made me realize that the sacrifices required for Big Law are not worth it and I will definitely be on the way out as soon as there is an opportunity.

Also for those miserable human beings who appear to be taking glee in this mess, I truly feel sorry for you. You obviously are either friendless or have no souls. I am not a young associate and have often been put-off or angered by the sense of entitlement or spoiled attitudes of associates coming out of the last 4 or 5 years, but it doesn't mean that I am glad that someone is now out on the streets. These are bright people who worked their tails off to get ahead. The firms helped to create this type of sentiment with ridiculous summer programs and the constant recruiting pandering. Hell it is still going on as firms are letting go of experienced people who have contributed and are assets to the firm in order to preserve first year associates. (or the incoming classes).

To everyone who has been laid off good luck out there and I hope you have a good network of support to get you through the tough times.

If one more person comes onto this site and bitches about how we ream out people that can't spell or use English properly, I just might have to choke a bitch.

We are lawyers people, laid-off or not, and when we work with words, we're merciless. Get us out in the real world talking to non-lawyers, and you will never hear us utter words such as pejorative, wherefore, indubitably, etc. I'd love to see how little it grates on you to read poor English after working for multiple partners that would eat your first-born for producing such drivel.

Perfection is expected out of us, yet we merely expect something that is readable here at ATL. Nonetheless, we gauge how effective you are as a lawyer by how well you can communicate. English is the medium for the art of law, and lawyers must be masters of it. So, when you post (via either the comments or the actual blog posts) on this site, we assume that you are 1) a lawyer or 2) a law student, and we all expect that you can spell and write better than an 8th grader. That is all.

29: I am only one year out of law school; yet I could not agree with you more. I am horrified less by the layoffs than I am by the reaction the layoffs triggered in my peers - the entitlement and unfounded arrogance is stunning.

I sense that my perspective is what keeps me both employed and entertaining offers for future employment, despite the harsh economic times. Young attorneys would be surprised how far humility and a genuine desire to learn the practice of law will take them in interviews.

Masturbating each other on an anonymous comment board will do nothing to improve their career prospects. Hopefully they will come to this realization and do so with haste.

Hear ye, hear ye:

Orrick will have layoffs on Wednesday, March 4.

Partners will be informed of the layoffs in a firm-wide meeting on Monday, March 2.

Associates will be dismissed on Wednesday morning before a firm-wide call with Ralph Baxter.

This ship be sinkin'

43 - I'm with you on this. I'm at LW and I can't believe how arrogant and pompous some of those who have stayed on are. They have no heart and no decency. LW - I'm ashamed of you.

I went to HYS and most of my classmates there have rich parents who pay their tuition--why else would you forgoe the free ride at NYU? Thus, while the layoffs suck, I'm content knowing that I can always move into the condo in Vail if it comes to that. And I honestly feel sorry for partners--especially ones at TTT firms in the midwest.

44 - Ultimate DOUCHEBAG tool.. "English is the medium for the art of law, and lawyers must be masters of it." Give me a freaking break. You my friend is what is wrong with our profession. Horribly wrong.

32, 29 here.

First, my daughter is 7. I guess you like them young. Remember, the DAs like to send pedophile lawyers such as yourself to prison, in order to send a message.

And you would not be the first to bang my wife. Although she seemed to recall your small package and "trigger" issues. I hope the counseling you are receiving works.

And finally, you have proved my point. I discussed entitlement and what real experience is. You offer nothing but insults. I will restate: do not send your resumes to the Midwest if you have not taken depositions or argued any motions and you are more than 3 years out of law school. You are a glorified paralegal at that point. And not as hot as my paralegal, either. Dumbass.

50 - I ask again. John, is that you?

Yo 29 -- I can appreciate your points to some degree but I'm afraid that the truth of the matter is that 1st and 2nd years in BIGLAW see more sophisticated work than you see during your entire career in SMALLTOWNLAW. Also, our 1st and 2nd years probably make 4x more than what you make with your SMALLTOWNCLIENTS, so back off our LAWBABIES and get over yourself.

Yo 52--with comments like that, I expect that the only time you and I will ever be in close proximity to each other is when I wave at you in the unemployment line as I head to my office.

Seriously Midwestern badass "I have taken 400 depositions so you better BRING IT if you try to get a job in the Midwest" dude... just because as a first year you wrote a cease and desist letter to chili's on behalf of your mom and pop client telling them to stop using their special sauce cause they stole your client's recipe doesn't make you hard. While it is true that being the 10th junior associate on a huge doc review might not give you great lit experience, many Biglaw juniors go to court, argue motions, do depos, etc. So stop acting so hard... Seriously it screams of insecurity.

I like the idea of an embittered 35 running around to BigLaw partner offices in Chicago and farting in anticipation of a potential lay off.

It makes me giggle.

29, one of my favorite pasttimes is to watch our LAWBABIES eat SMALLTOWNLAWYERS like yourself. So taking 400 depositions makes you feel important? Good for you. Enjoy that $25 per depo you get in SMALLTOWNNOWHERE.

Orrick layoffs - legit story or a lie?

Righton 54, and 29, remember what your mama told you - - you get what you pay for.

Right on 54, and 29, remember what your mama told you - - you get what you pay for.

Right on 54, and 29, remember what your mama told you - - you get what you pay for.

This is the perfect time for ATL to run a contest to predict which firms will be 1) dissolving; 2) doing massive layoffs and by what amount.

23, you said, "[t]hus, you are almost encouraging more firms to do layoffs i.e. if Latham cut 10%, we can cut 5% of associates and not worry about any bad pr." [sic all over the place]

If ATL stopped posting layoff news as you propose, firms could layoff associates with even less bad PR to worry about (since ATL would not post about it.)

You are inept. HTH

I feel terrible for the folks laid off at L&W. But I have to say, I think L&W people were, in general, insufferable tools. At least I never have to hear how great L&W is and what a joy it is to work there and how they hire really "good looking" people who "know how to work hard/play hard" ever again.

The conference rooms are booked already at Orrick for the Baxter spin/hand job.
Expect the usual: "'best for everyone," "regret," "committed more than ever to our Core lies, er, um values," "foward thinking" and other trendy management doublespeak but don't expect a word though about boomer greed. Oh, no, that has nothing to do with this, uh, huh: nope, nada, nichts, rein de tout!

Anyone want to place bets on how often he Baxterianly uses the word "change."

I'm hearing Orrick's numbers will be roughly 10% of their associates. Everything else I've heard is in line with the comments above.

Confirmed Orrick layoff's next week. Partner I spoke to said that they are going to be pretty deep, across all offices, and he can't promise me anything.

Swell.

Stop using the word "layoff." These people are not being laid off. They are being fired. There is no expectation that they will ever be rehired. Firms used the term "lay off" because it is gentler and doesn't reflect as badly on them.

You can tell 29 is really happy and secure, because he spends a LOT of energy to tell you this is so.

29 here.

Ha Haa Haaa. I bet (hope) 54 and 56 are at Orrick.

Keep beleieving that I am fixing traffic tickets, dumbass. The Midwest encompasses Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, etc. I made $375k last year, less than 15 years out. And while some "Big"law associates might claim they make more, let them flame next week after more layoffs happen. You guys are too stupid to see the writing on the wall. No client is going to pay for 10 associates to churn on a file anymore. My hourly rate is $415 - what is yours? I bet higher? And so what does the client get, other than - "Well, I was president of my highschool geek club" or "I got an A in Contracts."? Thanks dumbass. That is how client development works. Brag about grades.

Take this advice - if offered severance, pay off loans, go to a small firm, get some real life work experience and clients, then send me a resume. AT that point, maybe you will be something. Or as Alec Baldwin's character said in Glengary Glen Ross "Real estate is a tough racket."

You can tell 29 is very happy, wealthy and secure, because he says he is.

29/69:

Do you have some original ideas about the law you'd like to share, or are your thoughts limited to quotes from movies about other professions?

Wow 69 -- your firm's cost structure must absolutely suck, you're writing off huge amounts of time, or both. You bill out at 415, are taking 30 or so depos a year and you're only clearing 375k? At those numbers I'd be clearing considerably more than twice that. Oh, and I'm at 300k +relaxed life, and chuckle at the pointless file churning habits of my NY bretheren -- doesn't mean I'm happy to see them lose their jobs.

Real midwestern litigation partner

29/69

You're quite a rainmaker bringing in 45% of your billings. The basic model isn't this 1/3 1/3 1/3 bullshit, it's:

1) Associates' billings pay all of the expenses
2) The profits leftover from associates go into the pot to be redistributed
3) Partners get their share of the pot based on their billings and rainmaker status

To be pulling in less than what you bill, you are either a solo, working at a TTT firm, a deadweight junior partner or full of shit.

73's got it right.

why does everyone at orrick appear to have some sort of inside information?

did you all go to the same ORACLE?

- ROFL

why does everyone at orrick appear to have some sort of inside information?

did you all go to the same ORACLE?

- ROFL

29/69 - I can't speak for everyone, but I would MUCH RATHER be a laid off associate living in New York, London, L.A., San Francisco, Chicago, Hong Kong, or Dubai than someone stuck in one of the Midwestern cities that you described. Maybe I actually want my children to grow up in a culturally open and intellectually vibrant neighborhood instead of some broad-lawns-narrow-minds community and end up like Molly on The Bachelor.

By the way, I was in BIGLAW for 3 years and got one of those sneaky "performance layoffs" earlier in September. I was working, and still live, in one of the cities I listed and wouldn't move to one of the cities you listed for all the money or real estate in the world.

But that's just my choice. Not everyone is meant to live in a mid-sized Midwestern city, just like how not everyone would enjoy the NYC lifestyle or living abroad.

This is worse than listening to Cubs and White Sox fans argue. So we are clear, the White Sox fans would be TTT.

rumor has it that paul weiss is going to shed some associates and staff attorneys next week. can anyone concur?

I'm sorry, I can't take seriously anyone who (especially three kids and however many years down the road) refers to his wife as "my bride." I promise you're not making anyone envy you by being such an incredible douche.

73 is right,i am a midwest partner.We usually take home 70% of collections.

Yeah, we get that he's now feeling some smugness and self-satisfaction at choosing PODUNKLAW over BIGLAW because he looks upon us "biglaw strivers" with utter disdain (probably because he can't cut the mustard in BIGLAW, or socially survive in in a place like NYC). People's careers are potentially ruined here and now is not the time to look upon someone else's tragic misfortune with glee.

I'm also a midwestern partner -- we take home about 110% of (partner) collections - 75% of total (hope you're talking total).

Are my fellow firms really that f-ed up?

I would be shocked if more than 5% of the posters on ATL claiming to be partners were actually partners. Maybe this 29/69 douche actually is, but especially the people who say "V10 partner" (as if anyone other than law students refers to Vault rankings) are the most transparently bogus.

29 definitely got beat up on the playground as a child.

29 - I'd quit law altogether and go back to my previous career before I joined your shiTTTlaw firm dealing in personal injury, regardless of salary.

Entitled 2L

53, why will you see 52 as you walk to your office? Do you work at social services?

A correction for 81-

As leverage decreases, some firms have their partners pick up more expenses, but it's pretty hard to do when you're paying anyone $120,000/year because even billing them out at $200/hour, you're going to get close to $450,000.

Partners taking home less than 100% are, in effect, paying referral fees to the rainmakers for bringing in business. With that said, you've got to be almost worthless to take home 45% of your billings.

-73

Coast scum can stay there. You're not wanted in the Midwest. Enjoy stupid amounts of crime, bizarre COL and non-existent public schools.

Dude, 29/69 what the f*%& is your point???? That you make 375K and your billing rate is $415 an hour and you took 400 deposition. Posting on here trying to prove to 26 year old law school grads that they can't make it at your Gary, IN law firm? Why the f do you keep posting? Go insert your $415/hour, 3 inch pud into your "bride" and enjoy your awesome life... WTF is wrong with you? Pretty sure you're bald and aren't an inch of 5 foot 9. Livin' the dream though.

I am sure every one layed off voted for OBAMA. This will be a good lesson to them that voting for someone who wants to cripple the private sector is not great for you if you work in the private sector. The private sector will likely see no economic growth over the next five years if not longer. If you are a partner at a firm your taxes are going up, your house just got more expensive because your deduction of interest payments just got capped , and ppp are falling. You are screwed. The only way to respond is to get profits back up. If you cannot increase the work you have, then the only other alternative is to try to raise margins by cutting costs. A law firm's number one cost is associate salaries. The lay offs will continue and intensify. Thinking "long term about the future for when the ecomomy turns" is to indulge in a fantasy. The future will not look anything like the past.

What about the Kirkland layoffs? Any first year associates laid off?

Amen 78. White Sox=TTT Go Cubs.
Good luck to all those that have been laid off.

91, it's pretty clear that Obama, who's only been in office a few weeks now, didn't cause this implosion. Take a good long look at the last President in office and his policies, and maybe you'll figure out why we're in this mess.

91 - we got here because of Dubya and his retarded economic policies. Irrespective of Obama getting elected, this was going to happen anyway. No one got fired because Obama gave a speech anymore than they were hired because of Dubya. Besides, it looks like there will be PLENTY of SEC Enforcement under this administration which is very very good for what quite a few in this industry does. I am betting that the same thing will happen for other regulatory groups like the FDA.. while there might be a lull in idiotic securitizations of certain types of debt new avenues of revenue for firms are opening. It depends on how diversified your firm's practice areas are as to whether you can take advantage.

Good luck to everyone who was laid off, and god bless the United States of America.

Any truth to the rumored Winston layoffs?

91 - we got here because of Dubya and his retarded economic policies. Irrespective of Obama getting elected, this was going to happen anyway. No one got fired because Obama gave a speech anymore than they were hired because of Dubya. Besides, it looks like there will be PLENTY of SEC Enforcement under this administration which is very very good for what quite a few in this industry does. I am betting that the same thing will happen for other regulatory groups like the FDA.. while there might be a lull in idiotic securitizations of certain types of debt new avenues of revenue for firms are opening. It depends on how diversified your firm's practice areas are as to whether you can take advantage.

Good luck to everyone who was laid off, and god bless the United States of America.

I appreciate 29's effort. Why be an Ivy league entitled trust fund baby when you can be a low-level partner in a no-name town with a massively overdeveloped sense of self-importance. Unfounded superiority, ho!

94- your are absolutely right! It only took Obama about 30+ days to double the deficit...
also I love how $200 mill is in the stimulus package to go to help the NBA - wtf. Obama sucks....

p.s. latham has not burned down yet.

You can call me soulless, but I can't explain how happy I am to see the massive layoffs happening in a lot of the major law firms that I would have NO CHANCE whatsoever in securing even an interview. I have been unemployed for 6 months, and I would like my pain to be inflicted on others. HYS grads and star associates at NYC Biglaws - fuck you all. The writing's on the motherfucking wall.

TTT grad

91, how are you sure that all the unfortunate associates voted for Obama? Partners retaliating against associates based on their vote? That makes tons of sense... I love how some folks play into the childish team-oriented politics so much that they hope the country fails when their party isn't in office. You are unbelievably stupid.

Let me add my best wishes to those who have lost their jobs in this economy. Those of us who have made our careers in law know that most people will go through this process at one time or another.

I won’t dignify the unkind comments made here with a response. Law, as every other profession, has those who feel the need to demean. For those who have been attacked, take heart that karma is a bitch.

For those who have asked for advice, here is what helped me. Use this time to restore some balance and perspective to your life. Spend time with your family. Write your mentors to tell them how much you appreciated their influence in your development. Then volunteer. Many organizations would greatly appreciate any assistance you would offer. Providing help will also yield some unexpected benefits.

First, you will learn to learn to explain abstract legal principles in a practical manner, giving ordinary people peace with the legal process. When these people see your value and passion, they will tell others. This is one way networks are created. Second, you will develop practical expertise in a specific area of the law. This translates into value for a prospective employer.

Only you will understand how these principles might play out in your life. I can’t guarantee a future of fortune and prestige, but I can assure you that your life will be happy and gratifying.

Good luck.

100, you're an insecure d-bag

95/97, firms lay off people because they foresee a bleak future, not because of what happened in the past. The associate salaries from the Bush years are sunk costs.

If the firms expect a profitable future, they won't be firing people at $100k/person. But right now, partners see a deficit that is 10% of GDP, an exploding public sector squeezing out the private sector, 10%+ increase in tax rates, and a collapsing stock market.

The fact that layoffs are news reinforces the fact that they are not the norm.

81 & 88

You guys clearly do not see the firm financials. No partner takes home 100% of their "receipts" unless it is a kill what you eat shop and overly leveraged. Some partners (the really big dogs) make many multiples of others. For example, Holder made what, $3.0mm at Covington? What is the PPP at Covington - not more than 1.0mm? Which means the younger equity partners made a shitload less than 1.0mm in order for Holder to make his money.

But you dumbasses throw around TTT and PPP without knowing the economics of the law.

Shout out to 90. That was funny.

106, the "big dogs" "bill" many multiples of other partners, when you consider the leverage they utilize. The concept behind associate leverage is that a partner can cover his fixed costs plus enhance his own billings by using the efforts of associates. If a partner is taking less than 100% of his own personal billings, the system is broke and he would do better on his own. Apparently this reasoning is lost on the Midwest partners, however. They may be joining firms and hiring associates in order to assist hapless lawyers with their student loans.

Orrick SA here. On a scale of 1-10, how screwed am I?

108-

Eleven, so start looking ASAP.

108, Orrick was really picky in hiring summers this year, so the summer class is probably already right-sized. That means you're probably going to be fine, as long as the new "talent model" black-box compensation structure doesn't make the firm uncompetitive for associate pay.

But generally you'll be fine. The pain will mostly be behind the firm before you even start your summer, much less before you show up as an associate after the bar exam.

Nice backpedaling, 102. I'm assuming you are also 29 when I write this post. It's very enlightening to see that you only added your "best wishes to the fallen" AFTER so many posters crucified your attitude and ignorance of the billing structure of law firms.

You have shown yourself to be one those who feel the need to demean - you demeaned all of the law students who chose BIGLAW and the possible salary (pay off loans, feed families) and resume-building experience that it could provide. We're not all prestige whores, some of us are just average Joes made good who wanted to spend some time in NYC, paying off loans while working at a large law firm, while enjoying a city that has so much more to offer a singleton fresh out of law school than Detroit or Milwalkee.

Plenty of people I know are doing just what you're saying in your advice. I know laid-off people who are taking classes to brush up their foreign language proficiency or are spending some time volunteering abroad, or just spending several months abroad - something that should be compulsory for every American but sadly few of us ever are in a position to be able to actually accomplish.

Not all of us are entitled jerks and, while laid off, many of us are still very thankful to have gotten in a position to get a job at one of the elite firms, even if it was short-lived. We are all thankful to our mentors and families for their support. Just because we live in places like New York and chose to go the BIGLAW route does not mean we don't know how to be thankful for things.

We're also not all after "fortune" and "prestige", and if we were, we knew we wouldn't be finding either in BIGLAW. As a female, I know that I have a much better chance of finding both fortune and presige by putting on a designer dress and batting my eyelashes at certain men at the next charity fundraiser I attend than I ever had slaving away in BIGLAW.

It appears that LW fired a bunch of first years, which is jacked to the max. These lawyers shouldn't have been hired in the first place. Now, I'll bet a bunch have to round out the year with160k-scaled liabilities (read apt. leases, etc) and no income.

Just goes to show how unbelievably inefficient the current law firm model is. Recruiting 2 years in advance. Why? Associate promotions by class. Why? The lack of an established decision-making hierarchy. Why? Economics of law firm administration my ass.

When do the new vault rankings come out? Cravath and Latham must move down.

Latham fired 50% of their first-year class.

That is fucked up.

111 –

102 here. I am not 29. In fact, this was my first post here. If my comments came across as demeaning, I apologize. There are many tracks to get into law and many more once we have arrived. It is not my place (or desire) to value one over another. My only goal was to share experiences that worked for me.
You are to be congratulated for pursuing your dream the best way you can. I have found my greatest joy in “the pursuit” and trust that you will as well. I wish you nothing but happiness.

Did Latham really fire 50% of their first years? That's pretty ugly.

115, this is 111 here. Where on earth are you from? Pursuing dreams? Finding happiness? What's up with this Yoda nonsense? I've got to call flame.

115, this is 111 here. Where on earth are you from? Pursuing dreams? Finding happiness? What's up with this Yoda nonsense? I've got to call flame.

#100

You may wanna rethink your uncontrollable feelings of exhilaration when you hear of associate layoff news. You see, the way this profession works is that if the traditional Biglaw prestige system, which you hate so much and never will be a part of, fails to be restored, the wealth that is generated will no longer trickle down to you TTTemp reviewers anymore, leaving you unemployed just like a Latham associate, but minus the $100k severance package and any future job prospects. That is, unless you move to the podunk Midwest and join that "big partner" in Main Street CrapLaw. Maybe you can earn a living from paycheck to paycheck in Wyoming then.

I think 100 was being sarcastic, or just making fun of 29.

111 –

115 here. You made me smile. I got into law with the crazy idea of making a good living and having an impact on the lives of others. Remarkably, I found that this attitude had traction. In answer to your question, I am in California, though my summer home is on the east coast. (My ears are a little smaller than Yoda’s.)

48 is weak flame.

Orrick S.F. here. Which office is Baxter going to be in on March 4? Please confirm. If across the board firings are happening, are they even cuts (i.e. % wise between classes) or do certain classes face deeper cuts than ever? I an 5th year and busy, but just found out a law school classmate of mine at L&W who said he was busy was just let go.

Who has real info and not rumor?

Here is a site for upcoming California layoffs. Looks like Wilson Sonsini is going to lay off people in April.

http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/jobcuts/

Why is firing first years "f****d up"? Of course, don't want anyone to be fired. But if someone is going to be fired, why should first years be off limits? If anything, I'd think that first years -- who are new to a firm and thus have built up little institutional loyalty and almost no true lawyer skills -- are the appropriate place to start, once the firm has exhausted firing people who simply are poor performers.

Here is a site for upcoming California layoffs. Looks like Wilson Sonsini is going to lay off people in April.

http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/jobcuts/

Um, no. 3: They were given 6 months severance plus six months medical care. I think very very few associates or staff are going to turn that package down.

To 77:
"I can't speak for everyone, but I would MUCH RATHER be a laid off associate living in New York, London, L.A., San Francisco, Chicago, Hong Kong, or Dubai than someone stuck in one of the Midwestern cities that you described. Maybe I actually want my children to grow up in a culturally open and intellectually vibrant neighborhood instead of some broad-lawns-narrow-minds community and end up like Molly on The Bachelor. "

I am SO sick of people who think that the midwest is a vast, uneducated, narrow-minded wasteland. I live in Manhattan, but I grew up in the upper midwest, where I benefited from a rich cultural and intellectual landscape. Your assertion indicates your narrow-mindedness, not theirs, and your reference to "Molly on The Bachelor" doesn't exactly indicate that you put your money where your mouth is when it comes to cultural excellence. Piss off.

To 77:
"I can't speak for everyone, but I would MUCH RATHER be a laid off associate living in New York, London, L.A., San Francisco, Chicago, Hong Kong, or Dubai than someone stuck in one of the Midwestern cities that you described. Maybe I actually want my children to grow up in a culturally open and intellectually vibrant neighborhood instead of some broad-lawns-narrow-minds community and end up like Molly on The Bachelor. "

I am SO sick of people who think that the midwest is a vast, uneducated, narrow-minded wasteland. I live in Manhattan, but I grew up in the upper midwest, where I benefited from a rich cultural and intellectual landscape. Your assertion indicates your narrow-mindedness, not theirs, and your reference to "Molly on The Bachelor" doesn't exactly indicate that you put your money where your mouth is when it comes to cultural excellence. Piss off.

Looks like 80 from Wilson as of March 31 (per 126's cite to WARN website):

3/31/2009 WILSON SONSINI GODDRICH & ROSATI PALO ALTO Legal Law Firm 80

I am a laid off Latham second year and I have to say, now that the shock has warn off, I'm pretty F'ing happy. I didn't realize how unhappy I was in my job until it was gone. I am glad for the very generous severance and I will take my money and enjoy my life.

Good luck to everyone.

128 - 77 here. Your use of britslang (i.e. "piss off") does not make you come across as worldly as you'd like it to. Thanks for playing.

77 - 128 here. Boy, I see now that I was wrong. You sure put me back in my place. Nice work, asshole.

77 & 128 - why don't you guys get a room? I am sure 29 will chip in.

If you think last week was bad, wait until the coming week. Orrick and Paul Weis will not be alone and they will be deep.

Is this paul weiss layoff rumor from decent sources, or is it just total bullshit???

Whoever is posting, give us more detail or STFU.

You either heard this from a decent source or you're full of shit.

128/133: Why so defensive about the Midwest? Seriously, I was attacking the Midwest that way because 29 was making the same rash generalizations about people who chose BIGLAW. I found 29's comments to be rather inappropriate and glib, seeing as how plenty of first years (some with spouses and kids, no doubt) have their careers and financial situations ruined beyond the next six months. I thought his comments were inappropriate so I chose to give him a taste of his own medicine.

I'm aware that there are a lot of cultural offerings such as arts/music/theater camps and festivals in certain parts of the upper Midwest (like northern Michigan, for example), and that not all people there are PBR-drinking cretins who don't know even know where Angkor Wat is.

But you seem rather defensive about your situation there. Just an observation.

128 is right. I'm from the northeast and now live (and practice law) in the midwest. I find people here to be equally smart, just as cultured, and infinitely more down to earth. They just don't feel the need to jam it down your throat. It's actually very refreshing.

125 Firing first years is f'ed because they should have never been hired in the first place. If Latham had any balls, it would have told these kids there wasn't room for them earlier in the process.

That would have given them the opportunity to find other jobs when the market wasn't as flooded with legal talent and to make decisions based on an accurate financial forecast. Instead, these six months are just a monumental waste.

I don't work at Latham, but if I were a recently laid off first year that actually wanted a shot at BIGLAW, I would be FURIOUS.

This is a very useful new feature. Thanks, ATL / Lawshucks.

141st bitch.

139, so you're saying Latham partners should have predicted the economic meltdown when they gave offers to the first years in summer 2007? or summer offers to them in fall 2006?
If someone could have predicted it with any accuracy, trust me that person wouldn't be working at a law firm.

Since you're so good with your financial forecasting, you must have shorted the stock market in 2007 and made millions by now, right?

Nobody forced the first years to go to law school and enter a hiring system with a two year lag time. They assumed a risk and that turned out to be the wrong bet.

Fair enough, 142. I guess nobody is safe anymore. It just sucks to be a laid off first year with no experience or savings but tons of debt.

No mentioning of Dewey which splash blood all over its NY & DC offices (to be cont'd). Plus, the rumour is that most of those canned were up for bonuses payable on March 31 which the expeditiously-reviewed and fast-terminated associates won't get - such cheap bastards at Dewey! total TTT!

Any truth to Paul weiss impending layoffs? yes, no? maybe so?

144 right on - Which includes the first-years at Douchey & leBag!

What about Orrick?

The whiny little entitled Ivy League bitches are not trust funders. Trust funders generally don't hate their job, because they aren't particularly worried about being fired. Oh, and they don't owe any money for law school because it was paid in cash.

The douchebag East Coast scum tend to be the same strivers that want to have everything the class above them does and leverage up to get it. You know, the families that hang out in the Hamptons because that is where rich people go. The whelps then cry about not being able to live "NYC lifestyle", because that lifestyle as they perceive it requires a minimum $500K gross or a trust fund.

Then they get bitchy when people post that they (a) shouldn't live in Manhattan; (b) shouldn't be spending over $3K a month on food and entertainment; (c) shouldn't be starting families or supporting deadbeat significant others and; (d) should be getting rid of high-interest debt instead of buying made-to-measure suits and stupid office furnishings.

The Orrick layoffs are Monday, not Wednesday. Partner videoconference is Monday, the same day as the layoffs just like back in mid-November. The all-attorney video-conference is set for Wednesday to try and lift morale.

The cuts will be huge.

Over the last year, the firm tried to convince people to keep their hours up and be a team player by working with other groups. Thus morale, particularly among junior assocates, was shot to hell when in November, a couple of junior associates (perhaps more) who were going to hit, or had already hit 2000 hours by doing work for other groups, were laid off. Talk about a stab in the back. Of course, associates kept doing as they were told, in order to maximize the chances they would keep their jobs when the inevitable next round of layoffs came.

Problem is, while a year ago Orrick associates respected Orrick management and even trusted those at the top more than might have been expected in the typical big firm setting, now there is a huge amount of distrust. and incredibly low morale. MANAGEMENT IS EITHER COMPLETELY CLUELESS OR JUST DOESNT CARE. Probably both.

Associates aren't stupid. We do talk to each other. In fact, as I recall, we were hired because we do have decent intellects.

149 - Where is that douche Baxter? Which office will he be in on Monday?

150, I (not 149) think Ralph is in NY on Monday.

149, I will now dread Monday like no day since I started working. Thanks, I guess, for the heads up.

-OHS first year

148 = so true.

126, great find on the WARN filing tracker.

Wilson Sonsini has three March filings (for each of three offices) for a total of 92 firings on the 31st.

When's the shit gonna hit the fan at Paul Weiss?

Orrick attempted to copy the L&W model (rapid growth, international expansion, moves made with an eye towards their Vault ranking, etc.), so it's no surprise that they're ending up with similar fates.

Orrick SF insider here. Yes, the Management mess at the very top in the SF office is approaching fiasco proportions. Management has been laying the pretextual groundwork for these layoffs for months through the usual methods of associate blacklisting, rigged and bogus reviews, and, of course, passing the buck on their own inexcusable lapses in professional judgment to hapless juniors.

If there's no major shake-up at the top in the SF office very soon (as in the next few months), then the phrase "house of cards" would seem appropriate. What else is to be done with office leaders who neither lead nor wield a fat, dependable book?

Enjoy the reach-arounds while you can maggots. The need for overpaid turds like you is collapsing so fast that in a few months there'll be no more WARNings and no more severance packages.

So funny how the Orrick partners think it's all under wraps. There they go underestimating associate intellects again.

They said they were doing first-year reviews too for in the Spring for the first time (usualyl not til Fall), due to "desire of associates for increased feedback".

WE'RE NOT STUPID GUYS! WAY TO LOSE EVEN MORE CREDIBILITY!

Look for performance based stalth layoffs come April.

So funny how the Orrick partners think it's all under wraps. There they go underestimating associate intellects again.

They said they were doing first-year reviews in the Spring for the first time (usually not til Fall), due to "desire of associates for increased feedback".

WE'RE NOT STUPID GUYS! WAY TO LOSE EVEN MORE CREDIBILITY!

Look for performance based stalth layoffs come April.

3/31/2009 WILSON SONSIMI GOODRICH & ROSATI SAN DIEGO Legal Law Firm 8

3/31/2009 WILSON SONSIMI GOODRICH & ROSATI SAN FRANCISCO Legal Law Firm 4

3/31/2009 WILSON SONSINI GODDRICH & ROSATI PALO ALTO Legal Law Firm 80

Wonder what the associate / staff breakdown is. Also, does anybody know if income partners are subject to this filing?

Orrick DC is going to be hit hard. They have two factors going against them - one, a significant number of structured finance attorneys who have been doing absolutely nothing for the past 8 months and two, a new lease that was signed at the height of the real estate boom.

Funny thing about OHS is that everyone bows at the altar of Ralph like he's some sort of god. I'm not kidding, both associates and partners worship the guy and hang on every word he says like it's gospel.

Yo Ralph Baxter

"The revolution will not be televised."

128/129: Thank you. I grew up in the Midwest and was fortunate to have the opportunity to live on both coasts for various law school summers. Granted, my time on either coast was limited. But after sampling both, I decidedly prefer the Midwest.

To each their own, however. I don't care for either coast, but I don't insult those who do prefer them. If someone does not offer the same respect for my personal choices, it says much more about them than it does about me.

130- per that same website, there will also be 4 cuts in Wilson Sonsini's San Francisco office, and 8 in San Diego by (or on?) March 31. So the next month should be a fun time to work in any of those offices, what with that ax hanging over their heads and all.

wilson sonsini already did some layoffs.

What about all the "elite" NY firms?

Sullivan?
Cleary?
Davis Polk?
Cravath?
Debes?

any word of layoffs.

And can the two morons having a flame war about east coast vs midwest take the time machine back to 1997 where you belong? who has flame wars about where they live anymore. Is this your first time on the internet?

Any truth to Paul Weiss rumors?

157, I am seriously jealous that I didn't think of a GySgt Hartman character before. So much potential.

Accord, 164. I'm at Orrick and just waiting for Monday is killing me.

Accord, 164. I'm at Orrick and just waiting for Monday is killing me.

29,

It is only a matter of time before your wife lays you off for "performance reasons". Then she will outosource the work to India, and some guy with a fake American name and curry smelling ass will bang your wife for 1/8 the price. But I am sure your ego can handle it since you are the slip and fall king of anytown U.S.A.

Sadly, no way to track all the stealth layoffs. Anyone notice the up tick in several firms sending people packing "for cause?" I guess former partner now Chief Justice only buys you so much time.

165, please don't call Debevoise Debes.

Mmm, curry.

165 - if this were really The Internets, people would be posting links to Lat/Elie slash fanfic.

124, 126, 130, 153, 160, 164, 165: the WARN listings you are looking at refer to the WSGR layoffs that already occurred. They were effective Jan. 30, and 60 days is Mar. 31 - the day you see on that site.

Hi Elie: Thanks for reporting. Suggestion for the website: Is there a way that editors can minimize posts with comments like 18? Not remove, just minimize [for people who stay curious, they can maximize it again and read it]. See Youtube's spam function as an example. Thought that this was worth suggesting.

For the record: do not mind if I got spammed for the rest of this.

18, it was annoying to read your comment. People are losing jobs as it is. Why don't you lose your job, get a life, and grow a heart? Hope that's food for thought and have a good life, as hard as it must be with the way you spend your energy.

Hi Elie: Thanks for reporting. Suggestion for the website: Is there a way that editors can minimize posts with comments like 18? Not remove, just minimize [for people who stay curious, they can maximize it again and read it]. See Youtube's spam function as an example. Thought that this was worth suggesting.

For the record: do not mind if I got spammed for the rest of this.

18, it was annoying to read your comment. People are losing jobs as it is. Why don't you lose your job, get a life, and grow a heart? Hope that's food for thought and have a good life, as hard as it must be with the way you spend your energy.

Sorry - accidentally double-posted. I had only read comments 1-18 before, but by 132, had to mention it again.

Spam minimizing function (where people could minimize for future viewers of the site, but those viewers can opt in to see the material if they really want to): priceless right now.

Overall reaction: Yuck (but not to those who had legitimate comments to make).

what are the chances that latham will do further head count reductions?

any latham representative on here that can truthfully and candidly answer this question.

Did Latham’s DC 1st years fare better than Latham’s NYC 1st years? I've been looking at the increase in firms' summer classes and wonder if that might help interpret some of the layoffs of 1st years we’re seeing

Over the last three years, summer 2006, 2007 and 2007, here are the class sizes (2L only):
DC: 31, 49, 34
NYC: 63, 65, 80

Notice the huge increase in NY.

Anyway, I know it's a bad economy and that explains most of the layoffs.

Kudos to 142-143 for having some kind of normal exchange within all the Jerry Springer Show of Anonymous Posting.

Kudos to 142-143 for having some kind of normal exchange within all the Jerry Springer Show of Anonymous Posting.

ATL should implement a comment rating policy similar to the one on YT and Digg.

Any news on which practice areas and offices will be particularly affected by the layoffs at Orrick? ATL will probably be all over this story by Monday morning.

Pure horror out there these days, and this will probably continue through 2009 into the beginning of 2010. As perverse as it is, I'm actually HOPING my firm does layoffs soon so at least I don't need to look over my shoulder every day at work waiting for the bad news to arrive.

Remember in december when a few firms laid off 1st years, I think Prosk and some others? They definitely got a lot of flack, but it turns out those firms might actually be better managed for doing it early, although I'm sure pretty much every firm will go through a 2nd round for further trimming as the economy continues to stagnate.

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/12/abovethelaw_happy_hour.php.

Ugly people + digital cameras + the Internet + high leverage = epic financial collapse. Think about it for a second.

I know, I know, that post was so last year, but I just finished reading this blog. The entire thing. Indeed, it is quite depressing and an ugly collection of nonsense -- though some of you are funny and a few of you only have good intentions.

Gay disco is our only hope, folks. Believe it. Dance like you believe it.

OMM IS FINALIZING MASSIVE LAYOFFS >>>

Question -- have they deleted the laid off latham people from the website?

If a friend's profile is still up, does that confirm they were not laid off at latham?

Just found out a 1st year associate friend was laid off from a firm that I have not seen in any of the layoff news. Scary.

Former Thelen and maybe soon-to-be former Orrick partner The Glass Cock here, wondering whether Weitzel is going to protect me and the other ex-Thelen folks or whether he's going to throw us under the bus like he did to all of his former Thelen partners.

188 - name the firm, please.

Biglaw seems to be disintegrating like the banking industry.

In light of all the despair I thought I'd post a link to a story that'd give you some much needed hope. You can skip to the very last sentence on the second page if you want to get right to the "audacity of hope" part.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/us/01survival.html?hp

187 - call your 'friend.'

Let go > Laid off > Downsized > Fired

Second that, 128.

I'm clearing $1000 tonight tending bar.

-From laid-off 1st Year's blackberry.

That's change we can believe in, 196.

Can't we all just get along?

-Rodney King's ambulance chaser, er, counsel

I was let go from Latham in November 2008. I did securitization for 4 years. They called it performance. Latham sucks COCKS AND BALLS. COCKS AND BALLS. COCKS AND BALLS. Latham sucks COCKS AND BALLS. Latham just sucks.

200 bitches!

Also, massive layoffs are in the works at Sidley and could be announced as early as next week. London and NYC will be hit very hard.

201st!

200 - I've heard the same thing.

You know it's a scary time when I'm grateful to be at the office post-midnight on a Saturday.

199 - you did securitization for four years and were fired for performance. Perhaps because you were performing in something that doesn't fucking exist anymore?

Sidley is ripe for layoffs. Their RPL is very low compared to who I'm sure they would consider their "peer firms". They also had an enormous securitization practice. I'm frankly shocked Latham cracked before Sidley, but perhaps this just reflects better management on Latham's part in getting the cuts done sooner. They are inevitable everywhere.

187 - the laid off folks are still on the latham website. don't think that their names are going to be taken off anytime soon.

201 --

That makes one of us.

- also at the office

199, sucking cock and balls is a good thing. More time for it too when you're laid off.
Perhaps you've been working too much for too long to remember there is more to life than meeting your billable requirements.

Also, there are a lot of staff on here too. Remember secretaries often get to read partners' emails. That, coupled with years of experience they usually know more than they let on. Get off your pedestal sometime and talk to them. You might learn something.
Now, go suck cock and balls. It's fun and it's Saturday night.

Re: OMM, I've heard that as well, 186. I know it was originally planned for last week. Any idea what day it will be this week?

Laid off LW associate here. I want to finish myself off. This is unbearable. My life is over.

I can certainly believe massive layoffs at Sidley. Big practices in financial products, real estate, private equity/hedge funds, basically everything that hasn't been doing anything.

One of the principal financial engineer firms is not getting off without a scratch here.

Love that Latham laid off so many people last week right after it awarded four "Diversity Scholarships" to people who aren't even going to be working there....great to see the world has priorities....free $ b/c of the color of one's skin/sexuality > getting paid for hard work

I hear you 208. I just don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

How do I tell my girlfriend I was laid off? Seriously.

I guess I'm happy that I'm working at 2am on a freaking Sunday morning. Damn, how times have changed....

211, dump your gf. if she were a genuine soul, you would turn to her during your personal crisis, not hide from her.

211, dump your gf. if she were a genuine soul, you would turn to her during your personal crisis, not hide from her.

The layoffs just provide another reason why it makes sense to be a litigator than a corporate monkey.

208 - You are going to kill yourself over a f*king job? Have some perspective. At worst you are no longer working in a meaningless position surrounded by miserable soulless cowards. But you are still better off than 95% of the rest of the world - you are presumably healthy, you have shelter and food and medical care. Ask someone who's been diagnosed with a serious disease or some poor third-world SOB if they'd switch places with you, or if they'd cry and whine because of the pain of being fired.

216 -- Thanks for being a voice of reason. Things are bad, but in the grand scheme we're going fine.

No we're not going fine. Biglaw is done, and when it goes, it will take a lot of good people with it. Not to mention the law students who will graduate with life ruining debt with no job options.

We are far from fine, and suicidal thoughts are probably common-place right now.

Yeah, you all need to get it together.

Wow. I have been planning to go to law school for a year now, leaving a career that I started to seriously dislike. Now I am not so sure my job sucks as much as I thought. I know I'd graduate in three years, but I'm not so sure the law market will be "normal" in three years, due to all the students still getting cranked out and not finding jobs.

Good thing I never said anything at work about this whole change thing, as I'm super paranoid. My friends kept asking when I'd announce leaving, and I kept telling them the day I sent a check to a law school.

Good luck to all those without jobs.

220, things will be fine in 3 years. Just don't pay money for any law school that's not top 5.

You guys would kill yourself over being f*cking fired from Biglaw? I feel I should be so lucky, to get to leave with a few months of free money on the way out. I think this segment of our profession blows beyond the telling - a bunch of overpaid and mismanaged paper monkeys overbilling corporations for solving asinine legal "problems," many of which have been invented, manufactured, or worsened by attorneys at some point. Bunch of clowns who are willing to take any position, make any argument without regard to ethics or what the potential consequences of that position are, as long as the client can write a check. Oh, and meanwhile, are forced to go for years without meaningful experience while less "prestigious" attorneys get to actually go into court and you know, practice law. (I'll never forget the first time I met a patent litigation partner at a V30 firm who had not once gotten to stand up and argue in federal court.) And this is before we get to the fact that this is a group of people who either can't form relationships in the first place, or are willing to screw over their relationships and kids (in the form of never having time for either) in the name of making money for the almighty biglaw firm. What a joke. I have my next job already, and I sure as heck wouldn't mind a nice thick white envelope with some severance money in it.

Is this where you comment about the new lawyer weddings? I just want to say (as a man) that I would take any of the 3 women, if they were still available. All appear to be working, and all their parts appear to be there. Of course, they are too busy humping at this time to see this post.

222 - you rock. You actually seem like you have some balls and a good idea of what law really entails.

Folks - free advice. Learn to network. If you have not joined a bar association (and become active), you probably are screwed. If you are active, perhaps that is the avenue.

BTW - OMM sucks donkey nuts

Luke 12:22-31:

Then Jesus said to his disciples: "Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?
"Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith! And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well.

222 for comment of the year.

If girlfriend isn't sympathetic and understanding about losing a job in the worst downturn in 80 years, kick that gold digger to the curb.

LOL at 222, I think I fucked him up the ass once doggie syle, he was a bitch in heat for my load up his ass

Ok so next week: Layoffs at Orrick and O'Melveny. Let's see if the wisdom of the commenters bears fruit.

Any more firms?

222 used the word "monkey" to refer to a group (associates) that may or may not include blacks, which means that 222 is a racist.

Where is Al Sharpton coming to picket Above-the-Law until he gets his 2 hours of fame and apology from Mystal.

hats off to Latham for finding a balance between the marginal COST of each unoccupied associate and the marginal UTILITY in signaling that they value the same associates at higher levels than their peer firms.

In doing so, Latham PWNED! their PEER FIRMS firms who docilely submitted to the INFORMATION CASCADE manifest in the half-skadden trend.

what is most remarkable and precedent-setting about Latham's action here is that it resisted the urge to mimic numerous other firms that, to the unaided, public eye, appeared to be identically situated. its choice here could spell the difference between future inter-competitiveness among its peers. young, talented lawyers will compete more intensely for the Latham job hereafter.

other firms = pwnd!

Question -- have they deleted the laid off latham people from the website?

If a friend's profile is still up, does that confirm they were not laid off at latham?

232 - no they haven't deleted them from the website yet. I think technically the laid off date is March 6.

these comments about paul, weiss rumors sound like bullshit. someone grinding an axe...

As far as I can tell the PW rumors are BS. I think they have reviews soon and I'm sure there are some people who think that will lead to cuts, but my guess would be it would be the typical, forced attrition "you're off track, maybe you should look for something else" talk that they (and probably every other firm) give associates that are off track. More people will probably getting that talk across NYC as there is no voluntary attrition but I don't think you can call that a layoff or a firing.

At the end of the day I'm not sure if any more layoffs are going to hit NYC Biglaw. Looking at who hasn't laid off, they all had either good years last year, have fairly low levels of leverage or both. Also, they are almost all straight equity partnerships, which help the bottom line generally. I think the bloodletting will continue in the too big, too fast national/international firms. These firms leveraged up big time in a boom and now are deleveraging. Sucks that its in terms of people and not debt.

235 - why does straight equity partnership help the bottom line? Equity tend to make more than non-equity, which are really glorified associates, but for whom you can charge a higher billing rate. It also is harder to get rid of equity partners, while non-equity can just go bump in the night. I am curious as to your argument as to why one level of partnership makes more financial sense. Do tell.

208 and 211 -- give yourselves a little bit of time to feel like crap (I'd say you've done this already), and then pull yourselves together. Tell your family/friends/gf "my firm just laid off a couple hundred associates, and it really sucks, but I was one of them." And then you start looking for a new job.

People go through far, far worse all the time. They are right now. Keep some perspective. Even if you have absolutely 0 savings, you still have 6 months of pay to live on while getting back on your feet.

We should all get together and have an orgy. Sex is the solution to everything. Fuck recession. Fuck Latham.

I like 222's premise that non-Biglaw lawyers are a bunch of caring, cooperative and altruistic Mother Teresas who should be nominated for Ford Foundation awards if they weren't so modest.

Make this simpler - you have trouble feeling sympathy for people who probably didn't lose any sleep about you never making Biglaw and making 55k a year in the first place. Calling people dirtbags for working in Biglaw, while at the same time saying you would have jumped at the shot if you could have gotten it, is hypocritical, schizophrenic, and undercuts your insult.

And you're still a scumbag for gloating over people you don't even know losing their jobs.

If there are any NON-laid off lathamites reading this, i'd love to hear your reactions.

Are you pissed at the firm? grateful you didn't get the ax? What's the atmosphere?

The only problem with ATL is that you count staff as people. Attorneys are the only ones that matter. No one cares that some staff person got pushed out.

The only problem with ATL is that you count staff as people. Attorneys are the only ones that matter. No one cares that some staff person got pushed out.

I for one don't really give a crap about the staff. I didn't even look at the number of staff getting laid off. We should just focus on the lawyers number.

Only having equity partners, means you have a smaller base of salaried people and those people have lower salaries. Non-equity partners get paid a lot more than senior associates and unlike equity partners, they do not get a reduction in pay when times are slow, that is, they get a salary and equity partners get a draw on profits. Non-equity partners may honestly be the worst way to leverage a firm. They cost a lot and they have little incentive to bring in business as they don't get a cut.

And for the person popping up and saying staff are not people to get a rise out of people, please allow me to take the bait. You're an ass. The staff at my firm are pretty much hard-working and dedicated people who help me and my colleagues serve our clients better every day. Maybe you just have the staff you deserve.

244 - your math is off

For example, assume 3rd year billed at 300 and non-equity at 500. Both bill 2000 hours, and the firm collects 90% of revenue. Thus, for third year, firm grosses 540,000, while for non-equity it grosses 900,000. Overhead is $240,000. Thus, the "profit" for 3rd year (before payment of salary) is $300,000, while for non-equity it is $660,000. Assume 3rd year makes $200,000. Net is $100,000. Assume non-equity makes $400,000 (high), so profit is $360,000.

3rd year may have lower salary, but also lower upside. You need more associates (leverage) to make money than you do non-equities. That is why a number of firms have them. That is also why all of the firms are laying off more associates, because they are widgets. If the margin on the widget is only $100k when times are flush, a lot of them have to be put to work in order to make money. Filling your team with minor leaguers does not make you more money simply because you pay them less.

Now if the firm has ZERO work, then everyone for themselves.

Yes, I am an asshole. And I still don't give a fuck about the staff.

I have to admit I'm a little fuzzy on the non-equity thing, as the firm I work at has only equity partners. And I don't know where you pulled those hourly rates from but they're really low.

Also, my assumption is that everyone is slow (that's why there are layoffs) but I figured that was obvious. And the problem with leverage is that it magnifies gains and losses.

Any associate or even non-equity partner should be concerned about mass staff layoffs. Non-billing staff are a cost to the firm. A massive slash of those costs are an indication of how much the firm's revenues have dipped in only a short period of time. That is a concern for ANYONE investing their future in a firm.

Secondly, if anyone should be concerned about staff layoffs, it should be associates. Without staff around or with more shared proportions of staff, it means that associates will have to do more of the work once performed by those staff personnel. In such economic times, even a "survivor" of a week like this one does NOT want to be the guy whose hours are rendered non-billable because he had to do all of his own inputs and revisions or constantly be the person retrieving his own materials.

A nine hour day spent on 4 and a half hours of non-billable work is dooming.

So, 247, be all the asshole you want to be. With scarcer staff resources available to you, it makes your productivity outlook THAT much worse. The fewer staff around won't be as willing to multi-task for you.

LW NY: Staff were escorted out of the building immediately after they were fired. Most were not given the opportunity to pack up their personal belongings and were told that they would be sent to them later. Attorneys and paralegals are given until 8pm tonight to clear out. Extra time would be given if requested. Blackberry and remote access was cut off at 6pm on Friday. Access in and out of the building was also cut off at 6pm on Friday. The firm is staffed this weekend to let people in and out as they clear out.

246, 248 -- those rates are the reason that Buckley & Hutchings will be able to support themselves in a few years.

B&H to 190!

"But it is a sacrifice I am wiling to make for my bride and 3 kids."

God, I hate when a man refers to his wife as his bride.

"At least I never have to hear how great L&W is and what a joy it is to work there and how they hire really "good looking" people who "know how to work hard/play hard" ever again"

Ha ha ha ha! So true. Everybody always crowed about how great it was. Please. I'm sure it was boring as shit, just like every other BIGLAW job. Ditto Morrison and Foerster.

240 - i survived the performance based firings and layoffs of this friday at latham.

friday was incredibly painful and devastating for me even though i survived (for now). i had many close friends that were let go, and it was unbearable to witness their pain. to be frank, many that were laid off had a very good sense that they would be targets and were anticipating it, but it still did not dull the pain for them or for me when it actually happened. i have been incredibly depressed all weekend and have no desire to go to work on Monday.

i have completely lost my trust in the management and their so-called transparent firm management style. if only there was a market, i would leave this firm in a heartbeat.

i think latham should arrange for counseling for the survivors of this mess.

damn, 254. get a grip! after all, tomorrow is another day.

254: Thanks.

What can I say, I was laid off Friday from L&W. I wonder how they based their decision to layoff all these people.

222 are you implying there is something more to life than money?
What a novel idea.

253: Mofo sucks. Period. They did stealth layoffs that they later acknowledged in the fall with an announcement that they did 25 layoffs before the 2009 bloodletting, that was based purely on who was popular with a powerful partner (not based on who was competent). Even if I land on my feet after getting laid off from there, I will NEVER refer a client to them. EVER.

Source for rumors about OMM layoffs?

LathamClassAction@gmail.com

If you have been laid off, counseled out, or asked to leave Latham & Watkins for any reason since January 1, 2009, please email LathamClassAction@gmail.com.

Please indicate your name, position, class level if an associate, and office.

If you have already signed a waiver of your right to sue, you may not be eligible for this class.

LathamClassAction@gmail.com

261: You keep posting this. I wonder, what's your theory for a class action against LW? Last I check, "unfairness" was not a cause of action.

259: The 25 performance dismissals done in 2008 as a result of MoFo's annual evaluations were in line with the performance based dismissals the past several years (including good years). Twenty five attorneys firmwide per year is not a stealth layoff. To be sure, some of these "performance based" dismissals were senior associates who are very good attorneys but who just weren't going to make partner. That happens every year at every firm: there's just not enough room at the top for everyone who wants to be there.

I don't agree with everything the firm has done, but have to give MoFo credit for saying its 2009 layoffs were exactly that: layoffs. They didn't go stealth (which some firms have done). They didn't tank people in their reviews just to provide a "performance based" cover for their 2009 decisions. And they provided a pretty generous severance package.

Again, I'm not drinking the kool aid, but think we should give credit where credit is due.

For what its worth, I am in Litigation at Sidley NY and I haven't seen or heard anything about layoffs yet.

We will see what the next week brings. Good luck to everyone else out there.

What is the source of the rumored OMM layoffs? How many associates will be cut?

246 -- Your math is off! According to your scenario, the firm profits 260k from the non-equity (900 - 240 - 400 = 260).

I also quibble with the notion that overhead is 240 per. Now, that doesn't make the non-equity less profitable in relation to the associate, but clearly substantially affects the marginal profitability of the associate (moreso than the much higher billing non-equity).

Elie is a giant ball of turd. That is all.

259, why are you so anti-mofo. I thought they were a well-run firm with a collegial culture.

For those who are traumatized by job loss:
I don't know what you're going through exactly, so take this for what it is, an invitation for you to step hopefully in the right direction for you.

Repeat after me: your worth does not come from what job that you have or what your salary is. It can be a hard concept when society/law firm/culture/your family/the love of your life communicates to you otherwise, but just because you live in a bubble full of crap does not mean that crap becomes an actual truth to live by.

It's ok to be down - we all have our bad days. What is not acceptable is to give up on yourself, bring grief to your loved ones, and to waste the potential of your life b/c you can't tell what you've still got.

Besides the obvious task of networking and job-seeking, find good people to share your troubles with. Rather than paid counselors, I'd seek out people who have lived richly and have valuable perspective to share about the ups and downs of life (surprisingly some very successful people have been through incredible down once you get them to tell them back to you). Join communities where you're likely to run into them, if you're not in one now. Pick their brains. Ask questions and learn.

Or just go out and help people in a worse situation. Drop them a kind email, bring them coffee, serve them some way. Check out WorldVision– you don’t even have to donate, just go look at how many people in the world are likely not to survive as long as you have, as healthy and educated as you are. Don't gloat or feel guilty - just acknowledge what you have and take more of a learning posture to life. Hope that helps you find your next step.

For those who are traumatized by job loss: I don't know exactly what you're going through, so take this with a grain of salt.

Repeat after me: your worth does not come from what job that you have or what your salary is. It can be a hard concept when society/law firm/culture/your family/the love of your life communicates to you otherwise, but just because you live in a bubble full of crap does not mean that crap becomes an actual truth to live by.

It's ok to be down - we all have our bad days. What is not acceptable is to give up on yourself, bring grief to your loved ones, and to waste the potential of your life b/c you can't tell what you've still got.

Besides the obvious task of networking and job-seeking, find good people to share your troubles with. Rather than paid counselors, I'd seek out people who have good perspective to share on the ups and downs of life (surprisingly, many successful people have some really bad downs to share). Pick their brains. Join communities where you can find them.

Or just go out and help people in a worse situation. Drop them a kind email, bring them coffee, serve them some way. Check out WorldVision– you don’t even have to donate, just go look at how many people in the world are likely not to survive as long as you have, as healthy and educated as you are. I'm not saying this so you can gloat or feel guilty - I hope that it helps you acknowledge what you have and take a greater learning posture to life. Hope this helps you towards your next step.

"29/69 - I can't speak for everyone, but I would MUCH RATHER be a laid off associate living in New York, London, L.A., San Francisco, Chicago, Hong Kong, or Dubai than someone stuck in one of the Midwestern cities that you described. Maybe I actually want my children to grow up in a culturally open and intellectually vibrant neighborhood instead of some broad-lawns-narrow-minds community and end up like Molly on The Bachelor."

77: Did you just admit to watching The Bachelor in the same breath as your botched snub of the Midwest? And as far as "cultural openness" goes, you've obviously never been to Dubai. Nice try. FAIL.

What are laid off associates doing? Is ANYONE hiring? Is it even worth trying to get interviews right now?

272, there may be some governmental jobs. IP boutiques may be hiring as well. Otherwise, it's pretty dead out there.

271, you're on the wrong side of this debate.

Tip - look in-house in highly regulated industries, especially energy companies. Some are actually looking for attorneys, and energy (in all its forms) is the next big bubble. Now's the chance to get in on the ground floor.

No 274, you are on the wrong side of this debate. -Not 271, but still someone with sense enough to realize that your blatant and ignorant disregard of the Midwest makes you the exact kind of narrow-minded dimwit that you claim to be trying to avoid.

263/268--Mofo laid off first years for performance reasons in the fall. How is that performance when there was nothing to indicate that they were any different from any other first years? This is why I'm anti-mofo.

254: i'm sure it was agonizing for you to see your "friends" terminated on friday. i guess that's why you came to this board and maliciously characterized the terminations as performance based when they were actually economic. thx, pal. with friends like you...

Are people on this site so stupid that they don't realize the very basic realities of law firm practice and finance?

Of course there won't be lay offs today. All the time for Februrary needs to be entered into the billing system. No one is going to interfere with that process, even if the number of hours to be entered is way below what it should be.

Wake up.

I hate to sound stupid, but what does "TTT" mean?

I hate to sound stupid, but what does "TTT" mean?

I hate to sound stupid, but what does "TTT" mean?

Wow