Weil Gotshal Associate Shown the Door for Failure To Graduate From Law School
We’ve often explored the studio space in terms of what a “performance-based layoff” actually means. But today we can report about at least one person who would have been fired in this market or any other.
According to multiple sources, both inside and outside Weil Gotshal, the firm recently fired an associate for failure to graduate from law school.
How did this escape the notice of Weil personnel? How was he outed? What was he thinking?
Well, Weil did not respond to our requests for comment. But we imagine that it is not unusual for firms to hire a summer based on 1L grades, make them an offer when the summer is over, and then never really look at a transcript again.
What we do know is that the associate “attended” NYU Law School. Tipsters report that he then did some study abroad and thought his credits would transfer back over to NYU. They did not. He never made them up, hence, no diploma, no graduation.
But this story is a little beyond a technicality. More details after the jump.
Because Weil declined to comment, we have no idea if the firm would have given him the opportunity to go back and make up his credits. But we do know that Weil management was never really put in that position, since the offending associate allegedly lied to them and said he had in fact graduated.
Having failed to actually graduate from an accredited law school, the associate (perhaps wisely) spared himself the pain of sitting through the bar exam. He simply didn’t take it.
But when the results came out in November, he told everybody he took it and passed. According to a tipster
He told all of us that he passed the bar, but that his name wasn’t on the bar list. He actually said it was because of “a typo.”
See, here’s the thing about lying: never try to combine two lies into one lie. You can say you graduated from NYU when you only attended NYU and get away with it, at least for a little while. But if you say you graduated from Columbia when you never even attended, you’ll get caught right away.
In this case, the ex-Weil associate should have said that he sat for the exam and then failed. That would have been so much easier to get away with than saying that he both sat for it and passed.
Oh well, at least he’s learned an important lesson for next time.
In any event, the “typo” challenge seems to be what did him in. That got people checking around, and soon enough the whole house of cards toppled over.
But one question we are dying to know is how much work he actually did at Weil. I mean, Weil has been busy, and the firm has been putting extra bodies on some high-profile bankruptcy cases. Was this guy one of them?
Maybe this guy had no intention of being a lawyer, but decided to try to scam a couple of paychecks once the market went south. This is not a good time to be unemployed and trying to find your dream job anyway.
But perhaps I’ve buried the lead. It looks like there is an opening at Weil for a junior associate. Just make sure you can “document” your J.D.
If you’ve got more interesting details on this charade, send them in to tips.
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FIRSTacular
What is it with NYC? This is not as good as the story about the former paralegal who worked and billed as a lawyer for two years without having even gone to law school (if I remember correctly), but that firm was not on the level of Vile either. What fun.
Fourth?
Was that wrong? Should I not have done that?
Lots of typos in this one Mystal. I get it , you are doing it to annoy us, but honestly... why? We'll give more ad hits in the short term, but is intentionally cranking out typo-ridden bullshit really a sustainable long term strategy?
Sad story, good luck with the NYU guy
Hmm save 80K by not paying for 2nd and 3rd year - earn 30K for the summer plus another 60k (and stub bonus) till they figure out you arent an attorney - not a bad plan. If he would have said he failed the bar he would have had another 6 months pay - to me that was where he went wrong....
Can we stfu about the typos? I don't CARE. It's a BLOG.
Can we stfu about the typos? I don't CARE. It's a BLOG.
Can we stfu about the typos? I don't CARE. It's a BLOG.
Comment removed by moderator.
Can we sftu about the typos? I don't CARE. It's a BLOG.
NYU really owned this guy big willy style.
In the 12-month period of Madorff, Thain's $87,000 curtains, a guy faking a plane crash to save his ass and Spitzer's rim job, this is a non-story. Only Marc Dreier is making sure we lawyers are represented in the Top 20 Sleezeball Scandals of the past 12 months. We should show him respect.
Yeah, well, at least this isn't as bad as the fake Fordham "grad" who worked at Hughes Hubbard who never went to law school at all...
I thought firms required a letter or final transcript or something. Mine sure does. Did he forge it? That would make the story a little more awesome.
CLS >>>>>>> NYU >>>>> Fake NYU >>>>> Homeless Bum on the Street >>>>> Fordham
PWN PWN PWN PWN PWN PWN PWN PWN PWN
There was a partner's secretary at Weil in the 80s who wrote all her partner's personal checks and paid all his bills at Weil for years. He never checked his account and she stole hundreds of thousands of dollars from him over a 10 year period or something like that. She was never prosecuted to save both the partner's and Weil's embarrassment in the press. A true story.
Partners are so greedy -- how can they fire this guy for not graduating law school? And don't tell me this is performance based -- two years ago they would have put the guy on due diligence while he got his degree at night. Why doesn't Weil admit that it's TTT and headed for dissolution? The partners should get off their lazy asses and generate some business, or cut their own outrageous comp, instead of blaming this guy.
NYU- what a festttering instttitttutttion.
- CLS 2L Stud
20 = comment of the year
what kind of idiots do they have working at Weil? I guess this says something about the type of people they attract and hire.
Bury the LEDE.
L-E-D-E.
Read more.
This would never happen at Columbia.
I'm at Weil, but not in NYC --- I don't believe they saw anything other than my 1L grades until after I started work -- but they did ask for the transcript to confirm I actually graduated.
I mean it. EXPLORE THE SPACE.
Great post.
The next story is the firing of the HR person who was suppose to check the final transcript, but didn't. All large law firms check your final transcript. The liability is too big not to.
Anybody know if Vinson & Elkins looks at your 2L grades?
This guy also flew jets for United for 2 months and performed 40 breast augmentations without a medical degree. This guy f'ing ROCKS!
V&E does look at your grades and tends to no-offer at least 10-12% of their class sometimes using grades as an excuse. A friend of mine worked there and they tried to no-offer PWN him (back during the good economy). Luckily, he split with a real firm (not in TTTexas) so things worked out fine, but he almost shot himself in the foot. I still can't believe that a "firm" like V&E would have the balls to no-offer an HYS law student.
-HLS 09 V5 offer dood
This guy was a total SHARK. Scammed a cool 90k from a wealthy (sucker) firm.
Wow, the "HLS 09 V5 offer dood" fucking sucks.
That's nothing, it has happened to LeBoeuf twice
I didn't graduate or take the bar, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
I seem to remember a story about a University of Michigan grad several years ago who was outed as never passing the bar. He had been practicing for several years before he was caught. I don't remember what the ultimate outcome was.
Is there any chance Weil can go after this guy for the salary it has paid him as a first year (not as a summer), under some theory that he committed fraud by making the statements that he did and that Weil never would have paid him as a to-be-admitted JD had he not committed the fraud? I'm not saying Weil should or that it would be a good move on their part, but just wondering whether this guy's "scamming" a few months of checks as a first-year associate doesn't open himself up to bigger problems.
29- which V&E office are you asking about?
31- which V&E office are you taking about?
29- which V&E office are you asking about?
31- which V&E office are you talking about?
38, I am asking about the Houston office. Is there a difference between the offices?
20 = teh winnar.
Guys from my highschool used to not graduate from NYU law all the time, it was no big deal.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/06/01/BAGIPQ5QUU1.DTL
Damn you 35, you beat me to it. :(
40- I don't know for a fact that there's a difference, but I can only assume that since each office has its own hiring committee, 2L grades may be dealt with differently in the various offices. I'm also think that the no-offer rate that 31 mentioned isn't uniform firm-wide, because some of the offices have different hiring needs on account of the practice areas they house (at least as far as Washington and New York go)
45, thanks for the info. V&E seems to be having a huge summer associate class in Houston this year. I've heard there are going to be about 80 summer associates.
nyu LOL
I think Elie's bar results were a typo.
46- Best of luck to you; I'm an incoming summer in a different V&E office. Notwithstanding 31's jab, I think it's a fantastic firm - it's relatively well-positioned, and refreshingly socially-normal.
37 - Two words - judgment proof. But they can probably sue him for breach of contract or something.
New York UniversiTTTy
38-it was one of the big texas offices, either dallas or houston. Happened when he was a 2L and I was a 0L. I just know they did some trumped up BS to him (I went out drinking with my buddy and two associates after it happened and the associates agreed he had gotten fucked for no real reason--obviously I wouldn't have known shit at the time.)
33-suck it bitch! Just try to graduate from your TTT so that Sherman or Jones Day or some other shitlaw firm doesn't PWN your ass.
HLS 09 V5 offer dood
46, thanks and best of luck to you as well. I also agree that the firm is well positioned and has great down to earth people working in it. Mind if I ask which office you will be working in?
New York UniversiTTTy
Shiiiiit, that ain't such a big deal. Check out what I did to the crackers at Sidley...I refused work, went over partners' heads to complain about the work that was being assigned to me and then, yo, I scammed on this older summer associate and made him my baby daddy!
It ain't like a first year does anything require a law degree anyway, y'all foolish white devils.
53:
NYC
-52
53:
NYC
-46
21, Definitely agree that NYU is a second tier school. What are they doing to their students in the village? Most of the summers at my firm last year from NYU were utterly incompetent.
Why are NYU students so incompetent?
Damn, 45 beat me to it. I was an intern at the San Francisco DA's office when that happened. They were literally within a day of hiring that guy.
This guy is nowhere near a slick as the “Harvard lawyer” who did not even bother to apply to Weil—he hung out his shingle and collected hundreds of thousands of dollars in fees. Except that he never even attended law school.
http://www.abajournal.com/news/harvard_lawyer_now_has_new_title_inmate/
His elite client list included “a prominent physician who is a member of the state university system's board of governors”.
His defense: "It's not a crime if (your clients think you are a lawyer and) you don't correct them.''
I am debating whether or not this is excellent news for me. I will convene and committee and take it from there.
Why does the "guy at LeBoeuf" guy keep posting in the future?
Personally, I think this story is better:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/06/01/BAGIPQ5QUU1.DTL&hw=law+clerk+district+attorney&sn=006&sc=704
55 = EPIC FAIL at humor.
60 - I was there too.
Were you a clerk?
"Anybody know if Vinson & Elkins looks at your 2L grades?"
If this is a serious question, yes, but not very closely. Mine dropped significantly (.3 to .4) but they didn't seem to care. More than that, and you should probably get it together this semester.
An associate at the law firm of Anderson Kill & Olick, P.C. in their New York office since 2004 (he was hired as a paralegal, told the firm he failed the bar in 2002, told the firm he passed the Bar in 2003) continued to practice as an attorney at Anderson Kill until October 2006. At that time, the firm discovered that he had not attended Fordham Law School, had never taken the New York State bar examination, and was not admitted to practice law. He claimed to have a JD form Fordham University School of Law.
He pretended to be a law student in the Fordham night program when he was hired as a paralegal in 1978. (They adjusted his work schedule to accommodate night classes for the next four years.) so he kind of built up to the lawyer thing gradually.
The guy is also in trouble in Connecticut, because he was admitted pro hac vice there.
http://www.northcountrygazette.org/2007/10/11/imposter-lawyer-guilty-of-larceny/
I also heard a story about a female Deputy District Attorney who was discovered to be an imposter, was fired, and then started working at the state attorney general’s office before being discovered there—but not until she negotiated a plea agreements in a number of complex cases that had to be set aside.
"I still can't believe that a "firm" like V&E would have the balls to no-offer an HYS law student."
When I was at V&E last summer, one of the associates (himself an HLS grad) said that the biggest douches, and, in fairness, some of the best summers, were aHLS grads, and for several years they tended to be the ones receiving no-offers. I'll say the HLS students I worked with last summer tended to be either really great people or self-absorbed jerks; there was no middle ground.
NYU = TTT
There was a guy at LeBoeuf (my class) who claimed to have graduated from HLS. Also claimed that he had worked as a medic in the Israeli army and that he was supporting his cancer-ridden mother. The guy worked insane hours. They then discovered that he had not, in fact, graduated from HLS (the rest of it probably lies too) and they fired him. Seems like this kind of stuff is not a rare occurrence.
Howard O. Kieffer was released in September, 2008, after pleading not guilty to federal charges of mail fraud and false statements. Prosecutors say he violated terms of his release by continuing to represent himself to clients as an attorney.
U.S. Magistrate Judge Charles Miller has scheduled a revocation hearing for Thursday in Bismarck.
The 53-year-old Kieffer is accused of lying on his application to practice law in federal court. Authorities say he has worked on cases in at least 10 states but North Dakota is the first to prosecute him. His trial is set for Jan. 6.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,459804,00.html
now we all know that school prestige has no correlation to ethics or ability............. WAKE UP CALL to all firms !!
Well, I think what happened was that he did go to NYU, finished all 3 years, sent in his transcripts, but then found out his semester aborad of whatever did not count. Son on his transcript, it probably shows 1L year, one semester of 2L and two semesters of 3L year, plus one semester of 2L year abroad. A firm would think that he graduated since he was at NYU for six semesters basically (including abroad year). I dont think my transcript actually says I graduated, but i could be mistaken.
69 - Without passing judgment on HLS students, I would add that V&E seems to be hypervigilant with respect to douchebaggery
It's like an anxiety dream come to life -- oh, no, I forgot to take that exam, I never really graduated from law school.
Similar thing happened at a firm in Phoenix. Guy was hired as a 1L. Liked it. Decided he didn't like law school. So he didn't return. Went back as a 2L and later hired as a full-time associate. Bar results came out, he said he failed, so he stayed on. Feb bar comes and goes. He tells them he failed again. I'm not even sure if they fired him because he never graduated. I think they fired him for failing the bar twice.
All this goes to show is that law school isn't really necessary. People should just be allowed to sit for the bar without having gone to law school, like in the old days.
Not that unusual, but funny just the same. No comments?
A classic example of what happens when you let LAZINESS ruin your life. LOL LAZIES !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great job getting a great story! Elie?
16 - more info on Hughes Hubbard person who never went to law school please. (Fordham "Grad"?)
Had he said he was from Columbia rather than NYU he wouldn't have gotten hired in the first place.
i think this actually looks good for nyu. top firm accepting you without even caring to at least look at your later grades? that's pretty nice.
How come there isn't more bashing of this NYU non-grad? Some people are even implying that the firm shouldn't have fired him - are you kidding? Let's get back to the task at hand...
85, leave him alone. I am sure he feels bad enough. He was a smart guy with plenty of offers who did something incredibly stupid. And for all you CLS idiots, I believe he went to Columbia undergrad.
Ok, so THIS GUY deserved a LAYOFF.
LOLLERCOPTER @ 83, and all NYU idiots who run around claiming 90% of NYU's class gets into CLS. anyone here actually believe that? anyone?
After committee, I have decided this is neither excellent nor bad news for me.
87
LAYOFFS? Are you KIDDING ME?
Wilson Sonsini and Brobeck hired a guy who claimed to play football at USC, to graduate law school from Boston summa, to be licensed to practice in CA. Guy "practiced" for 4 or so years. Each of these "facts" could have been checked very easily. All anyone had to do was search the CA bar membership to see he was not licensed.
55 Rocks!
Wow, so many celebrities on this here website!!!
P.S. I previewed this comment before I posted.
88, I believe it. In fact, I believe the associate in question DID get into CLS. The ones who look bad in this situation are Weil (which should have figured he didn't pass the Bar at least) and the fired associate in question.
NYU, does have a lie detector test to get in. He presumably had good grades from a Ivy League insitution and good LSAT scores. Ths shouldn't reflect on NYU at all.
NYU has a better faculty than CLS, better location, similar LSAT and undergraduate grade medians for the entering class. All CLS has is an Ivy League name.
Same thing almost happened at my firm a few years back with a recent grad. However, the firm kept pressing for the transcript and the prospect fessed up about not finishing law school. I think the prospect was short something stupid, like not doing a paper for a class.
Here's what I don't understand about this guy in this post and that prospect. My law school would have bent over backwards to help one of its students graduate in a similar situation before that person showed up at the firm. As long as there was no ethical issue and you talk with them they would let you walk at graduation and then required you to, for example, write a significantly long paper in the month right after graduation to get graded so that you could get your missing class credit and be good to go on your merry way. Maybe it's only my law school that works that way, but it only benefits the law school to help you out so that you will be a grateful alum. A few words with law school admin early on might have saved this person a lot of grieve.
58: you realize that this means your firm sucks right? They're incompetent because your firm is scraping the bottom of the barrel of the NYU class.
37 - not a chance. hell, i'd represent this guy pro bono just to take the hiring partner's depo along with his practice leader, colleagues etc. god, does weil look fucking stupid here.
Big Law firms are such liars. Liars, liars, pants on fires. See Stealth Lay-Offs. See also generic firm-health memos that all say the same thing and never accurately reflect the real financial situations at the firms. Why should any of us give a f*ck whether this guy lied to his Big Law firm? They would have done the same thing to him when the time was right!
What is up with the liar liar post. It keeps getting pushed down like it was the last post but it has been up a while
16 and 82
There was/is a partner at HHR who did not attend law school. The partner is of the vintage when it was possible to be admitted based on work experience as opposed to a law degree. I don't recall whether those eligibility requirements applied to take the NY Bar, or get admitted. If that's who you are referring to, then it is no big deal. To be honest, I'd rather have a junior associate who had experience than someone who went to law school - what do you learn about lawyering there anyway.
95 - which law school?
Used to work at LeBoeuf. A guy there did the same thing. When the NY bar results came out, he said he failed and would retake them. Then, he made up an excuse about getting sick to explain why he didn't retake them. LeBoeuf looked into it and found out he'd never graduated. When confronted, he said he dropped out of school for a semester to take care of his sick mother. He was fired.
He might have another problem. By saying he passed the bar when he didn't, he falsely held himself out as an attorney. If he goes back to school and gets his J.D., he might not be admitted to the bar anyway as a result.
Michelle Obama with the Patrick Ewing picture is my favorite. Cracks me up every time.
Of course he is not going to ever be admitted to any state bar. This is a major ethical issue.
He did not, however, hold himself out as a lawyer. NY's character and fitness takes place after passing the bar, and can take months on end. I assume he never said that he was actually admitted, just that he passed the bar.
I don't think the fact that he lied to colleagues would be that problematic. If he lied to the firm directly and more importantly lied to clients about the bar than he can never be admitted to a state bar.
Until a few hours ago, he was listed on Weil's website as a law clerk. So he never held himself out to the public as a bar passer.
We had someone sort of like this. Well, I presume she was actually an attorney. But man did she awesomely scam the firm. Didn't do a lick of work, but she sure cashed in before she got canned. Clerkship bonus + 5 months pay + stub bonus. 10-15 hours of actual work. Awe inspiring.
I don't think I've ever met a CLS grad who was not a total sTTTriver, trying and failing to wash the stain of the HLS ding of their resume...
76, oh no! That's what I'll be dreaming about tonight!
This reminds me of the annual bukkake-for-finals at Columbia where everyone goes up to Harlem and beats off because people used to give a shit about Columbia.
Please note that he went to and presumably graduated from COLUMBIA for his BA.
So let me repeat, he is not an NYU Law grad but he is a graduate of Columbia College.
big hiring process = scam
big firm hiring process = scam
This thread is littered with proof that actual legal training is not required to do junior associate monkey work. Or DA office monkey work ("you mean you LOST a criminal case?")
I know of someone, girl, who pulled this off the easy way at a well-known Midwest firm. She simply flat-out lied about having gone to law school, concocted an awesome resume, and got an interview and offer through resume saturation because her credentials were so incredible.
The wild thing is that she wasn't fired for not having gone to law school. She was fired for personal misconduct and insubordination. I believe she kept things together for a year or so.
He is on the way to destruction. He has no chance to survive make his time.
What's the big deal? At least he failed to graduate from a top tier school. Better than graduating from a lower-ranked school.
116-
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, because this way, he was able to work in BigLaw for all of 4 months, and he'll never have to practice law again.
John McCain got 8 hrs sleep last night. That is excellent news for me.
@115 - All his billable hours are belong to malpractice!
if this guy ever talked to the NYU administration about his problem i'm sure they would have sorted it out for him. he probably had some mental problems.
cls = declining shit hole or home for insecure HLS rejects? answer: both.
there is a reason over 60 percent of the cross admits (and the vast majority of students at either were admitted, or could have been admitted, at both) choose NYU Law.
There might be two openings at WGM, check out the guy with a DUI involving cocaine and a loaded gun. Go GULC!
http://www.keysnet.com/news/story/63512.html
121 - CLS students are so insecure! Why else on a post about a CLS student lying to his firm would they feel the need to bring up NYU? Clearly, when Elie made his comment about how there is a difference between the student saying he goes to CLS and the student saying he goes to NYU, he meant that CLS students cannot get into NYU.
123 - i assume you are drunk or high. If not, trust me soNNNNN, you will not go far.
55 is fucking hysterical. Michelle Obama with a picture of patrick ewing speaking ebonics.
Awesome!
I can't believe he didn't graduate from NYLS that school is mad easy yo.
The guy from Anderson Kill who pulled this scam off for two year never even graduated COLLEGE.
on a more general interest tip....what's the over/under on layoff announcements today (after close of biz natch)? this could be black friday
WHEN U R READING THIS DON'T STOP ORSOMETHING BAD WILL HAPPEN! MY NAME ISSUMMER I AM 15 YEARS OLD i have BLONDEHAIR ,MANY SCARS no NOSE OR EARS.. IAM DEAD. IF U DONT COPY THIS JUST LIKEFROM THE RING, COPY N POST THIS ON 5MORE SITES.. OR.. I WILL APPEAR ONEDARK QUIET NIGHT WHEN UR NOT ExPECTINGIT BY YOUR BED WITH A KNIFE AND KILLU. THIS IS NO JOKE SOMETHING GOOD WILLHAPPEN TO U IF YOU POST THIS ON 5 MOREPAGES
Yeah, we had a guy last year that was similar. Graduated from Boalt, took the summer bar and failed. He was allowed to stay w/ the firm pending the second bar exam, billed at a lower rate as "staff attorney -- bar pending" and the firm again paid for bar prep. He was, ahem, pigment-favored and got a few perks others would not have gotten. Skip forward 9 months to the day spring bar results are due and he tells a partner that he never took the spring bar (he "just couldn't handle it'). He was fired and the firm had to refund about $250,000 in billings with an embarrassing explanation cover letter to clients. And they let him keep the $100,000 they had paid him in the interim . . .
#126 NYLS is not "mad easy" -- closed book exams and a B- curve.
If he wasn't smart enough to read the academic rules, he didn't have much hope as a lawyer.
101, 95 here. Both the prospect and I attended different T14 law schools.
131 - don't forget your 5 easy payments of only $29.99!!!
At least NYU isn't as bad as the UniversiTTTy at Buffalo.
- Syracuse 2L Stud
I didn't go to NYU or CLS, but NYU has to be considered the better law school. I've yet to meet anyone from CLS who isn't a total asshole.
I didn't go to NYU or CLS, but NYU has to be considered the better law school. I've yet to meet anyone from CLS who isn't a total asshole.
130 - "pigment favored"??? You have some serious issues.
130, you are a racist.
Remember, affirmative action is when you have two "equally qualified" candidates and you pick the one that is more "diverse." The fact that blacks consistently have lower LSAT and UGPA scores is just a statistical anomaly.
36 - Good memory. In 1988, a litigation partner in the Chicago office of Sonnenschein was expelled after it was learned that he did not graduate from the University of Michigan. A member of the law review, the partner did not finish his third year seminar / paper course and left law school 2 units short without graduating. He was unable to sit for the Ilinois bar but reported to Sonnenschein and worked (can't practice if you're not admitted) for 10 years, made partner, and had a solid court room record. His opponent on a case in federal court in Springfield called the ARDC to check up on his record as part of preparing opposition papers on a rule 37 motion. The ARDC said no such person registered with us and it all unwound very quickly after that.
In the past decade there have been at least 2 examples of PARTNERS at NY Big Law (Willkie and Milbank) who passed the NY bar in routine fashion but never filled out the paperwork to get admitted . One of them, I believe was asked to leave, the other was ultimately admitted and the partner still practices there today. I wonder if he ever gets behind on his expense reports or time sheets?
Strange but true. Happy Friday to one and all.
http://www.lawschool.com/faketranscript.htm
141
Re 2 partners mentioned.
The Milbank man was suspended briefly by the firm, and allowed to return. But a few years later, was prosecuted by the US Attorney's Office in Wi re a bankruptcy case he was working on ( not teeling the truth to the coure re conflict of interest). See EAT WHAT YOU KILL (U Mich Press).
Something similar happened at Wilson Sonsini years ago. And, most firms then started doing background checks. Hard to believe, as a recruiter, that they let this guy show up without having passed a background check.
What's with all the CLS hate? A couple of bozos say something stupid early on in the thread like "NYU is TTT Columbia is so much better OMG LOL!!111" and a bunch of NYU students suddenly get insecure.
I hear a lot of "I never met a CLS student who wasn't a douchebag." This is, of course, pretty ridiculous. Our school is basically a microcosm of society at large, with good people, bad people, driven people, laidback people, etc. Personally I've met a few NYU students at mixers and I like them, and they like me, so where have you been hanging out?
I don't care about respective rankings or reputation. I do, however, care about the quality of character that my future colleagues will possess. And regardless of alma mater, some of the people on this board (racist, sexist, homophobic, insecure about school rep and willing to self-aggrandize at the expense of another school) I hope to never meet.
-CLS student
Very true 75...thats part of the culture there.
As for no offering a HYS guy, Texas firms tend to like to hire people born and raised in Texas.
I'm soooo confused. Why does it matter that the guy went to Columbia undergrad? CLS and Columbia College are only related to the extent that they share a gym.
Also, CLS and NYU are approximately the same, everyone knows that people choose between them based on the night life vs. cheap rent decision.
Something similar happened at Wilson Sonsini years ago. And, most firms then started doing background checks. Hard to believe, as a recruiter, that they let this guy show up without having passed a background check.
The non-graduate in question was also a militant liberal. More proof that NYU needs to recruit more libertarians and conservatives.
This sounds like the dumbass high school football player who told everyone he got recruited and committed to Cal...
Did this non-graduate walk at graduation and was he listed as a graduate in the program? If not, why didn't any of his fellow NYU students realize he didn't graduate.
If he did walk at graduation, which would have only be allowed if he was missing a paper for a class, why did he not finish up his little coursework to graduate?
144: you sound like a turd, you probably fit in pretty well at CLS.
Does NYU not send out emails reminding 3Ls that they don't have sufficient credits to graduate???
144 wrote, "I don't care about respective rankings or reputation." Yeah, right. You don't care about rankings but you chose to go to school in Harlem as opposed to anywhere else in the country.
A case I know of happened a few years back in San Francisco. A guy gets a job at a very prominent firm. The firm is very diligent and checks his credentials with the CA bar and the law school. Everything checks out -- the name matches the bar #, etc.
So, he works for 8 years, and then it turns out he never sat for the bar exam, never went to a law school or even to college. Nonetheless, he was a true star, loved by big cheese partners and major clients, etc.
This is how he did it. The guy was ethnically Chinese and had a very common Chinese last and first names. So, he simply goes to the state bar web site and types in his name, getting over 20 exact matches.
Of those, he picks one closest to his own age and also the one who graduated from the highest rated law school. Armed with this knowledge, he applies for a job with a top 20 firm, and provides the bar # as if it was his own. Then, the firm being dilgent , requests a copy of law school transcripts directly from the school, and of course gets it showing a very high class standing. Actually, if they asked this guy for a copy of transcript directly, he would have had difficulties since he obviously never had one. But contacting the school directly was always considered the best way, and it backfired here.
Well, after 8 years of excellent work the whole thing fell apart. There are two opinions why. Some people say his boss run into the real guy during one of those bar functions. The other version is even more fantasctic -- they say the real guy applied to the same firm for a job!
Live and learn, but so much for our pompous beliefs about the value of law school education, or of "a good school" vs. "a fourth tier school" dichotomy. As somebody stated (and this story confirms), it's all baloney.
Why am I surprised that at this day and time law firms are still not protecting themselves from this type of liability? Shame on the management and recruitment processes of this firm for not having voluntarily instituting a policy to (a) require 1st year associates to provide a copy of their transcripts which would have shown a date of completion and (b) have all bar related expenses submitted for payment through the firm.. This just goes to prove when you go off skating by the seat of your pants, you're gonna get skid marks!
Why am I surprised that at this day and time law firms are still not protecting themselves from this type of liability? Shame on the management and recruitment processes of this firm for not having voluntarily instituting a policy to (a) require 1st year associates to provide a copy of their transcripts which would have shown a date of completion and (b) have all bar related expenses submitted for payment through the firm.. This just goes to prove when you go off skating by the seat of your pants, you're gonna get skid marks!
Does NYU not send out emails reminding 3Ls that they don't have sufficient credits to graduate???
Dorsey & Whitney had a fake attorney working for them for six months a few years ago...
http://wcco.com/watercooler/fake.lawyer.Dorsey.2.352377.html?detectflash=false
What does TTT stand for?
what doesn't TTT stand for?
As a lawyer and former law clerk, it is not uncommon for a law student to obtain a position as a law clerk, begin earning more money than they thought that they would ever earn - or at least enough to entice them to spend more time in the clerk role than on their classwork, then never completing their law degree. Granted, most of these people likely don't lie about whether they ever finished their JD or took and passed the bar exam, but it's very likely that the allure of money at a large NYC firm like Weil adversely affected his judgment and led to the deception. Unfortunately for him, this barrister bungle may well preclude him from ever earning his membership in the bar.
I remember seeing in the paper (it made the Washington Post) about 10 years ago about a guy in Florida who got Skadden Arps to send him several hundred thousand dollars simply by calling them up and saying that he was one of their partners.
I wish I could remember more details because that was by far the funniest fake lawyer story I ever heard. The guy didn't even bother pretending to practice law or having graduated from law school. But I think his undoing was that he stupidly used his real name and eventually someone at Skadden was wondering why they kept sending money to some guy they never heard of.
Here's a link 162: http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1039054413342
You claim to be a journalist. It's "lede," not lead.
My firm required official transcript with sig/seal of registrar (no xerox copies allowed) plus Bar card/number/information and they checked. Its pretty easy to do if you have a routine policy in place.
If he would have been straight with NYU and taken the bar, they would have probably found a way to put things right. Their administration is cranky, complains a lot, and is difficult to deal with, but they will go to bat for their students if necessary.
Weil kept the incompetent recruiters and HR people and layed off 25 support staff in January.
Unless someone already mentioned it... Is anyone here young enough to remember the PARTNER---yes, PARTNER--at Wilkie Farr who was exposed around 1997 or 1998 who had NEVER passed the Bar Exam? It's true---search the NYTimes archives and you;ll find his name. Wonder what he's doing now--working as a paralegal?
check out Morgan Lamb who worked at Baker Botts, Jones Day, and who knows where else.
168,
He passed the bar exam, but never sent in the application for admission.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0DE7D61738F932A25752C0A961958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
69 - we spoke to the same person...probably in the same conversation.
158- The Fake Lawyer at Dorsey & Whitney was Mona Stalekar AKA Mona Murlidhar. She is from a family of con-artists; her father and mother have both been brought up on charges of trying to rip off people in the state of MN in 1988 and 1994. Law firms must do a better job of checking credentials.
158- The Fake Lawyer at Dorsey & Whitney was Mona Stalekar AKA Mona Murlidhar. She is from a family of con-artists; her father and mother have both been brought up on charges of trying to rip off people in the state of MN in 1988 and 1994. Law firms must do a better job of checking credentials.
Not anything new. This happened at a large Philly firm in the late 80's while I was an associate there. A first year associate had flunked a course or otherwise messed up something in her third year and had no degree. The firm started inquiring when the July bar results came in and she was not listed as passing or failing. I think she had some complicated story about missing the bar exam registration deadline due to some personal problem, then she had another story about an "incomplete" that would be cleared up on her transcript, then when she did not register for the February bar and still could not produce a transcript, she was fired. The firm had to rebill all her time at paralegal rates. Unlike the guy who faked his Fordham attendance from the get go, I don't think folks like her start out intending to cheat, but they are unable to face the music when they screw up and they start lying to avoid embarrassment, and then they can't stop.
In response to 157, NYU does not. Or at least they didn't the year I graduated ('02). I participated in the graduation ceremony, thought I had a law degree and then when I was filling out the registration to take the NY bar exam in June '02, I realized I was short one credit. No one at NYU had ever alerted me to this fact and I had to scramble to do some research for credit for a professor so that I could take the bar.
i find it incredible that weil would fire an associate for this reason.
after all, they just hired a lateral partner in one of their satellite offices who failed the state bar there multiple times and is described by most people as an idiot.
I76, are you talking about KS?