3Ls: Welcome to the Terrordome
During this lull in the firing of current associates, it looks like firms are turning their attention to incoming associates. And firing them.
Yesterday, we learned the the D.C. firm Sughrue Mion fired one third of its incoming first year class, and canceled its 2009 summer associate program. The firm did not respond to our inquires, but we understand that the (former) incoming first years received a $5,000 “severance” payment. As a tipster puts it:
I guess the economy is hitting IP firms pretty hard too (even those with mostly foreign clients).
Today, we learned that the mid-sized firm of Morris, Manning & Martin fired all of its incoming associates.
Details after the jump and an update from Morris Manning.
Morris Manning, which is based in Atlanta, informed its disappointed 3Ls via voice mail last night. Incoming first years were particularly angry because the firm had recently given them an official (albeit delayed) start date. A tipster reports:
It’s as if the firm waited just long enough to rob us of all out opportunities.
We don’t have any reports of severance being offered to the would-be first years.
Other sources report that Morris Manning also canceled its 2009 summer associate program.
People who signed up to work for Morris Manning are understandably regretting their choices:
This news was especially frustrating for those of us who could have obtained positions at Alston & Bird or King & Spalding, who wouldn’t dare rescind their entire incoming class’ offers for fear of bad press. I guess MMM feels like they aren’t big enough to be accountable. Damn shame.
That’s one way of looking at it. But given the clandestine layoffs at Alston & BIrd, and the public layoffs at King & Spalding, who knows what the future holds for incoming first years at those firms.
In any event, it could be long spring for law students who expect to be working at firms this fall.
Update (6:30): Morris Manning managing partner Robert E. Saudek has now confirmed the news to the ABA Journal:
“We believe that our first goal should be to retain jobs for the associates who are already working for us,” Saudek says.
But just because these incoming associates have been let go, it doesn’t mean the firm’s decision is final:
“If and when transactional work picks up we will contact our 3L offerees to see if they are still available to join the firm—that could be in September or it could be next year,” Saudek says.
I don’t know if “pride” is compatible with “the recession,” but would you really go back to a firm that promised you a job, then reneged on its promise, then called you months later and said “hey, I was hoping you were still sitting around, utterly unemployable by anybody else. We have some extra grunt work lying around, you want some?”
Bad times. Not good times, bad times.
Earlier: Firms Rescinding 3L Offers: A Follow Up
Stealth Layoff Watch: Alston & Bird
Nationwide Layoff Watch: King & Spalding Is Making Cuts




Comments
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first! fuck you all, cock cakes!
Housing starts were up in February, a sure sign that the recession is behind us. Smooth sailing from here on out.
thirdsty pretzels
Interesting to note that the 3L who lost his/her job with a month until gradutation calls it "frustrating" and a "shame," while yesterday's Cardozo blamed his "crappy law school" and ranted about losing a single week of his summer.
I'll take the unemployed MMM student in a heartbeat.
Good luck to everyone looking for work; you'll land on your feet.
How does a firm decide which 3Ls years to "fire"?
Practice group? GPA? Law school? Looks? height? mouth breathers first?
According to NALP, Sughrue's summer class was 10 people. Therefore, they informed 3 kids that they don't have offers. I suggest if those kids have a patent background to take the patent bar and send out resumes. Other patent boutiques are booming with business. Good luck, but it's only 3 kids.
recession over? wahoo! time to buy a new house, a new car, and blow my next paycheck on strippers and coke!
Some of the 3Ls are remembered as true superstars (e.g., they buddied up to all of the right people during their summer) and others are just okay candidates that didn't outwardly suck. The latter will go first.
Cock cakes? That you, Rob G?
None of these firms suck as much as McDermott Will & Emery.
"In any event, it could be long spring for law students who expect to be working at firms this fall."
Awesome. Taking the bar isn't nerve-wracking enough. Now thinking NOBODY is safe, well, that just feels awesome. I know, I know, I have a job offer I shouldn't complain at all...
Anyone know of another blog that dishes legal layoff news without the incessant, sensational fear-mongering?
Smell the rot?
5,
Probably summer reviews. In years past, you usually had to do something egregious to get no offered at the end of the summer program (since firms took a reputational hit if less than 100% got offers). That doesn't mean that everyone in the summer program had nothing but good reviews. That said, it's probably fairly arbitrary.
Anyone know of another blog that dishes legal layoff news without the incessant, sensational fear-mongering?
The ship be sinking...
I like this new Dow Is Up Guy. Informative and optimistic.
I2--I would love to find a law blog that practiced reporting instead of engaging in fearmongering, and where the posters (a) actually knew something about the practice of law, (b) were adult enough to refrain from using TTT and loser in every post, and (c) were secure enough that they didn't equate the size of their d!ck with their law school or a law firms pedigree. Let us al know if you find such a place.
5,
Mouth breathers first.
Always.
This happened to me when I was 45 and a partner in a major law firm (ten years ago), so I know what "its like" and how I dealt with it. Unfortunately, its going to happen a lot more for two reasons: first, the economy is NOT recovering (the Chinese government is getting publicly very edgy about buying US debt and there will soon be two trillion dollars more). Second, the economic structure of behemoth corporate law firms makes no sense; when they lay off as many associates as they possibly can, firm management will turn to nonequity partners and partners without business. In addition, major headhunters are getting out of the business of looking for associates. For what its worth and if you're in the DC area, I would be pleased to discuss what measures I took and what worked for me (most efforts will fail, but you only need one to succeed and when you strike the right balance, it can actually be an improvement) with any attorney(s) who have lost their jobs over lunch someday. I am NOT a headhunter or an exec. coach, I'm a sole practitioner and a licensed customs broker. I am traveling half the time; but when I am in town, I have lunch every day at the award-winning Restaurant Eve, 100 block South Pitt Street in Alexandria, VA. They have a great deal for lunch, two courses for $13.50. If you'd like to join me I don't expect and won't accept a free lunch; I'm the guy with the long scar on his left arm (from the law firm arm wrestling mishap I described in an earlier post) and generally sti at the end of the bar at Restaurant Eve . The servers know who I am and I would be glad to provide whatever "wisdom by experience" and insight I can supply. I've been in the abyss of losing a law job before; its depressing but it is not that tough to conquer, especially when you resume will state that you are at a much younger age.
12,
You are so far off base. What about Mystal's writing is sensational or fear-mongering?
So what if he titled it "Terrordome" and used a 3L as a source for the financial strength or weakness of IP boutiques? I guess Mystal could have mentioned that both firms have fewer than 150 lawyers, both summer classes were 10-15 people, and that about 12 people total were impacted by the bad news in this post. So what if this story is the exception rather than the rule? Elie is still right, "firms" are firing incoming associates. Sure, it's just a handful of "firms," but it's up to you to realize that while Mystal ups his page views.
Somewhere over the rainbow, 18
11:
Look...it could be worse. I got notified THREE weeks before the Bar exam that my start date was being pushed back and then was laid off three months after I started. So, I'd rather know now that I didn't have a job come Sept rather than find out later.
To the MMM class, my sincere sympathies. I interviewed with MMM and loved the firm--it was my second choice. Nice people. Hang in there.
Gotta get off that chitlin' circuit . . .
22--Thanks.
Doot doo doo doo doo doo...Doot doo doo doo doo
"hops on bicycle and rides away into a tornado:
No one is entitled to a job. No one is entitled to a summer associate position. No one is entitled to a paycheck.
Remember that, son. Remember that.
I just got out of a hiring committee meeting and King & Spalding and the firm is either going to push back start dates for 3L's for one year or simply let the 3L's go....a "top management" is supposed to make adecision before "signing" bonuses are sent out in the next couple of weeks. No talk of severance, etc. was mentioned.
HEEEEEELLLLLOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
IF YOU ARE AFRAID OF BEING LAID OFF, THEN GET OFF ATL AND START BILLING MORE HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOT THAT HARD. IT'S ACTUALLY VERY SIMPLE.
You all need to lose the sense of self-entitlement. I had my equity stake reduced, and you don't hear me crying about it.
-- V100 Partner
IP boutiques that are not sweat shops are not struggling. S&M is a volume based business, i.e. do as much as you can for next to nothing, take a little profit from each and a lot of profit from the high volume. unfortunately for them, those clients were already stretching their budgets to begin with and now with the recession, are bringing in everything in-house or cutting back significantly. Look at cantor colburn to see another firm hit hard by doing volume business.
while i dont work at a boutique, our IP department is doing just fine. we have not had any layoffs in our department (although we only have about 50 or so attorneys in our department) and are interviewing some people. we dont charge outrageous rates like Fish. our clients are willing to pay for value. protecting the company's bottom line is even more important in a recession than in a period of economic expansion. yes, our workload took a significant hit this past year, but we have gotten a lot of work transferred to us from the high priced shops.
right now, its good to be in the middle.
How does this affect those of us going to good law firms?
Anyone know of another blog that dishes legal layoff news without the incessant, sensational fear-mongering?
__________________________________________
Maybe at your mom's house?
20 makes me chuckle.
$5K not bad. Proskaer Rose rescinded its offer to some incoming 2008 first years and didn't provided them any severance.
5 - keep the summer associates with parents, aunts, uncles, etc. at other top firms or at potential clients, and certainly those with a connection to a current client, and get rid of the rest.
Can someone please go to lunch with 20 and report back? Elie? Marin? Bueller?
29: You realize that his post is about firing/laying off incoming associates. In other words, the people who were fired/laid off are still in law school. Telling them to "bill more hours" isn't particularly helpful when they haven't started their employment.
Sughrue to 3Ls: Here's 5k, now go fuck yourselves.
I would like a list of those IP boutiques that are not laying off and whether we think they are doing well in these economic times. . . . this would be much more useful than simply "IP is failing!!!" for 3 3L's not coming in.
Kenyon & Kenyon?
Fitzpatrick?
Finnegan?
Bring on some useful information!!!!
I would like a list of those IP boutiques that are not laying off and whether we think they are doing well in these economic times. . . . this would be much more useful than simply "IP is failing!!!" for 3 3L's not coming in.
Kenyon & Kenyon?
Fitzpatrick?
Finnegan?
Bring on some useful information!!!!
Agree with 36
Don't sack the kid of the general counsel. Don't sack the kid of the district judge. Don't can, but do sack, the hotties.
Fitzpatrick announced its office expansion AFTER the recession hit, so that's probably evidence they are doing well.
are these firms prestigious, or 'tee-tee-tee'?
*nervously turns off phone and hopes i don't hear from my firm until my start date*
-nervous T-10 1L
soon to be nervous 1L sa
When I was in law school, one of my friends was hired as a first year summer associate by a SF law firm. About a month after she accepted the offer (and with i-view season well gone), she got a letter telling her the offer was rescinded for "economic reasons". To his great credit, our Dean telephoned the law firm and banned them from interviewing at the law school for the next five years. That needs to be done to these ****!!.
Oh god.
30 - ummmmm, Pot? I'd like you to meet Kettle.
It wouldn't have happened if you'd gone to Cardoza.
There are still firms hoping to avoid the infamy of the ATL layoff list, but without any real basis for that hope. If associates aren't billing hours, reductions will eventually be made, and 3Ls and summer associates are likely targets. NOT HEARING ANYTHING YET DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE SAFE.
28 - I was in the same meeting. So much for the need to keep it "confidential." -- You better hope they don't scan your sent emails....
20, I hope you told the management of Eve that they will be soon inundaded by resume wielding trade lawyers who will order water with lime, fries, and then not tip.
wow, for 2 people in the same King & Spalding meeting to be posting on this board, there must be absolutely NOTHING to do at that place.
29: Junior associates can't just "BILL MORE HOURS" when the so called business generating partners aren't providing any. Enjoy your time in law school.
45-Considering how many firms are rescinding (or will probably rescind in the near future) do you really think banning tons of firms from a school is going to benefit the students? If any of these firms recover and can hire those students as 2Ls, you will have totally screwed that class.
35, that's a load of bull.
51 - you have no idea...
35, that's a load of bull.
The Good:
S&C
Cleary
Paul Weiss
Weil
Debevoise
Gibson Dunn (*did shorten summer)
WilmerHale
Covington
The Bad:
Skadden (pro bono deferral for incoming/current associates)
Simpson (pro bono program for current associates)
Cravath (shortened summer, low bonus setter)
Kirkland (shortened summer, rampant layoff rumors)
The Ugly:
Latham (layoffs, pay freeze, general TTTness)
2/17 - Recession NOT over. Dow Is Up Guy to STFU. Anyone living or dying based on the Dow at the expense of everything else going on in the world is an idiot. Go back to trolling Dealbreaker.
Amusing that now rescinded offers are "firings." Natural extensions of the "stealth layoffs" nomenclature applied to actually letting associates go who don't do any work, I guess.
Welcome to the culture of entitlement. A $5,000 payment to the 3Ls does indeed deserve to be in quotes when described as "severance," not because it is inadequate, but because there was no employment relationship to begin with and therefore it is better described as a gratuitous payment.
Amusing that now rescinded offers are "firings." Natural extensions of the "stealth layoffs" nomenclature applied to actually letting associates go who don't do any work, I guess.
Welcome to the culture of entitlement. A $5,000 payment to the 3Ls does indeed deserve to be in quotes when described as "severance," not because it is inadequate, but because there was no employment relationship to begin with and therefore it is better described as a gratuitous payment.
Agree with 40, let's post some useful information. Patent law is said to be recession proof. How is that statement holding up in this economy? Insights into patent boutiques would be useful as well as large patent shops. thxs.
@49/28 What's the size of your incoming class?
Can we get confirmation on the King & Spalding info?
62 - Over 50 including the Atlanta, NY, DC and Houston offices. -- The Atlanta committee makes firm-wide decisions regarding start-dates, etc.
To the K&S folks: good thing your firm didn't freeze salaries! I'm sure your associates feel great about their extra $5K while the incomings risk getting their offers rescinded. Talk about quality management.
So I guess going to Emory isn't a guarantee of a big law job...
54, 56 - Please read the comments posted under last week's piece "Enough with the Scare Tactics."
To 50 - Ha. good comment. Restaurant Eve doesn't need the bizness; with the two courses for $ 13.50 deal and being ranked in the Top 5 in the DC area with a chef that is nominated yearly for the James Beard awards, they are packed every day beginning at 11:30. Seriously, if anyone wishes to meet over lunch and get my "ideas", I'm here (and have lunch at Eve about every other day, given my travel schedule). So I should give you an email address to determine if I will be there for lunch on a particular day: RGrover716@aol.com. .
The recession will be over soon.
Financial system fears are easing
Stock market has been rising
Housing prices rose in California last month.
Law firms are so slow to act. These actions should have been taken a year ago if at all. These firms will regret laying off so many attorneys once the economy starts booming again, and trust me there is a lot of pent-up demand out there.
The March Madness poll is screwed up, lets you vote multiple times for some of the entries.
I guess the incoming first years at K&S are starting to realize how much things really change from their 2L summer - - from wining and dining to the bottom of the pecking order . . . and before they even start there - - and you thought the people at K&S actually cared about you...
63- confirmed, but who am I? I am an anonymous internet user...or am I?
69 - posting "trust me" on an anonymous website is really stupid.
Is it just me or do a lot of commenters seem like v100 partners? Aren't people allowed to say how crummy things have gotten without being lectured for having a "sense of entitlement"? Let those commenters remember that the tables can easily be turned on them, too.
62 - 12". Can you take it?
28- and anyone else that posts stuff about K&S, as a former associate, they DO track your computers and emails. there is no doubt that the email for ATL is on their monitor list. please do not email from your work computer...and signing onto yahoo on your work computer will not matter, they can still track it.
please be careful. and no, i did not get fired. my wife had twins and we had another little one. i needed a life adjustment or she was going to kill me!!!
After seeing firms like Latham and Morgan Lewis delay start dates and pay public interest stipends rather than lay off incoming associates, IT WOULD LOOK AWFUL if another similarly situated big firm merely laid off its incoming class.
The offer rescindals (sp?) are just a test of your fortitude. If you go back to the office and demand your job, YOU WILL GET YOUR JOB BACK.
YOU PEOPLE HAVE NO HEART. NO SPINE. NO BACKBONE. NO DRIVE. NO MOTIVATION.
14, summer associate reviews often are based on (1) limited substantive contact and (2) comments principally by relatively junior associates whose judgment may not be the best or the most objective.
20/68 = owner of the "award winning" Eve restaurant looking to drum some business to shore up sales in a terrible market for restaurant owners by appealing to unemployed lawyers.
Very creative form of advertising, though.
"S&M is a volume based business..." 31 is turning me on.
63 - I think two seperate posts of people in the same meeting is confirmation - especially when they know the size of the incoming class in question.
Canceling the summer program at this stage is pretty shady.
83 - not as shady as telling 3L's who graduate in one a couple months that they no longer have a job. At least the 2L's would have another shot at OCI.
I call bs on the K&S troll. He/she is most like a snubbed associate or law student venting.
85 - ok if that were true, then why hasn't K&S came out and denied the rumors and set the record straight? The answer is exactly for the reasons 28 mentioned.
Rumor has it that EAPD will be firing 30 or so lawyers, followed by a number of staff (again) in the coming days. Hold on to your livelihoods!
I am appalled -- absolutely appalled -- at the obvious -- OBVIOUS -- sense of entitlement here. You need to put in some hard work if you want something in return. I didn't make partner by complaining and acting like I was better than everyone else. Unbelievable. Totally unbelievable. It borders on sickening.
:(
80
Either that or a serial killer . . .
80
Either that or a serial killer . . .
84 - Yeah, 2009 OCI is going to be a real winner for the 3L's.
lol 86, thanks for confirming my suspicions. no firm responds to random comments from anonymous sources in the comments section of ATL. get real.
92 - Right, just like there was no basis to the "random" comments that K&S was going to be laying off a bunch of people... oh wait, that happened last week, right?
Clearly, b/c you were one of them...
68, i don't think anyone should be taking advice from a lawyer who uses a gmail account for his professional business AND who hands out that gmail account on an internet board (clearly you aren't worried about getting your account spammed)
i googled your email account and got back a motion for preliminary injunction that you filed in 2004. i suppose you get props for being an early adopter of gmail.
Did the MMM 3L's really learn they'd have no job by voice mail? Good lord. Have some decency MMM.
i sense that the Eve restaurant guy went to UVA in 1982 and is a major history geek. i can't put my finger on it, but that is just my sense...
@95 That's an aol account
As crappy as it is that the MMM 3L's got "fired" - at least they know their fate. All these firms that haven't decided what to do with their incoming associates are totally screwing them. The longer they wait the less chance the 3L's have to either find another job, apply to LLM programs, etc. Whether the K&S comments are true or simply the rantings of an upset associate, K&S as well as every other TTT firm need to have some class and make up their minds and stick to it.
http://robingrover.com/index.jsp
sup 68.
FWIW,
http://robingrover.com/jsp2122523.jsp
88,
I would wholeheartedly agree that these punkish rapscallions are out of their gords thinking there is any CHANCE they should have jobs. Perhaps these so-called lawyers should head down to the Lower East Side and get jobs at the textile factories, for they are nothing but unskilled workers. We must all remember there no entitlements in this society. "ARE THERE NO PRISONS? ARE THERE NO WORKHOUSES?"
"How does a firm decide which 3Ls years to "fire"?
Practice group? GPA? Law school? Looks? height? mouth breathers first?"
It's easier for IP firms, you can do it by technical specialty. You keep those who have a background in the area where you still have business.
Is Townsend laying people off?
Google result #2 and #3 for "rgrover716" - it is apparent what your numerous trips are for. Da.
Could 80 simply be looking for domestic, former-attorney candidates?
78 - The word is "recission."
noun
(law) the act of rescinding; the cancellation of a contract and the return of the parties to the positions they would have had if the contract had not been made; "recission may be brought about by decree or by mutual consent"
105 that is absolutely hysterical (sort of, if you ignore the whole trafficking issue). i missed that before.
lol this grover character cannot be serious. why is he soliciting young, distraught, debt-laden law graduates for lunch?
So, I am looking for an old guy with a wicked scar from a left-handed arm-wrestling mishap, who is using the "good hand" to leaf through a catalog of Russian brides at a bar in Alexandria....how could this go wrong?
108 - nearly 10 years of legal practice have honed my internetting skills to a very fine edge - that and my ability to read a sportsguy column in 2 minutes while my secretary conforms a purchase agreement
OMG. For 30 seconds it was funny reading the yahoo group posts of the guy looking for a Russian bride but now I feel bad for the guy when I just saw he is trying to give career advice to us. Dude - can't you get Elie to delete your email address from the comments and have the posts commenting on them scrubbed clean? You are probably nice and I'm too depressed today to watch the inevitable ridicule from this bunch. Thank you.
You attorneys have lived the life all these years . . . making it legal to pollute the air, land and seas. Getting off big drug companies for killing and maiming people. You have been overpaid to sit and do nothing but revise agreements and pleadings billing 50 hours for something a 12 year old could do in ten minutes. Its about time you all were shakin in your shoes. I'm glad to see this day. I can pay my rent on unemployment -- you can't! ha ha aaaaaah ha!
112 - I thought the guy might have been a hoax, but it appears now that he is a well-meaning guy who is a little too loose with his email and contact info on the web.
Elie - scrub the guy's contact info.
114, i agree, only thing more depressing than loneliness is a bunch of law students making fun of some guy suffering from it.
speaking of law students:
has anyone had substantive problems securing a bar loan?
Elie, seriously remove comment 68. The poor guy is gonna have to change his entire email account if you don't.
what is he thinking using his "work" email address for things like that yahoo chat!!!!
105 here - it was funny when it appeared to be another character on the comment board, but not so much if it acutally is a guy who is seriously offering to help the newly unemployed and perhaps looking for something other than employment on a yahoo group.
However, if this guy turns out to be an insurance broker looking to sell some variable life product, let me know so the ridicule can begin.
Until then, Elie remove 68 and 105.
To # 112 - I was engaged to a beautiful, classy blonde Russian woman from St. Petersburg for five years who put Marilyn Monroe and Jayne Mansfield to shame. I couldn't care less if someone digs up internet discussion postings I may have made regarding seeking a Russian bride; I gladly and very openly discussed our relationship on a national tv gameshow tournament that I won and which was just in reruns last weekend. I'm not embarrassed in the slightest by your (or anyone else's comments). I'm self-employed, reasonably successful as an attorney and unlike most of the posters on this site, quite self-confident.
Ugh. I'm so depressed now. I'm old, single, probably going to get laid off and not even hot like a russian wife.
"national tv gameshow tournament that I won"
Cite, please.
"national tv gameshow tournament that I won"
Cite, please.
104--I am an associate at a small/mid IP boutique and we've just gotten a Townsend partner. Stealth layoff perhaps. We're not laying off, we're busy--not as much as peak, but we have a very mild hours requirement.
Either 68/120 is stalker of the subject of the posts, or he is the real deal. Dude won a biglaw salary in one gameshow for answering questions on a show I'd never heard of (and I watch a lot of tv). In fact, he is he all-time top money winner of cable tv gameshows, according to the internet. Nice job, if this is in fact you, and not the internet stalker of said gameshow winner. I may need to show up at this guy's restaurant and challenge him to a game of trivial pursuit. The blue pie pieces are my specialty, too.
http://www.cuecards.com/check1.jpg
My worst 2L OCI interview was with MMM. It was ridiculously early in the morning, and they started the interview with "Why do you want to work for our firm instead of the other firms that do the exact same type of law we do?" Dear god am I glad I fudged that one.
MMM = TTT
40, 61 - take a look at this list:
http://www.iptoday.com/articles/2009-3-top-patent-firms.asp
Any firm in the top 20 with positive growth in the last year (column eight on the chart) in patents issued is probably a safe bet for patent prosecutors. Not sure who is hiring on this list though.
Patent lit, transactional, or soft IP, I have no clue.
What is the latest on K&S? Are the rescinded offers affecting all offices or just Atlanta?
128 - soft IP - weak
Patent litigation - strong
Transactional - moderate but safe
I have been posting in comments about Sughrue Mion firing the incoming class for over a week now - ATL is so slow in getting the info!
I get money
This tangent about the mail order bride guy asking folks to meet him in a bar is hall of fame material.
5 stars!
129 - As mentioned previously, the "management" makes firm-wide decisions so the start date will be pushed back in all offices if it is pushed back in Atlanta. The same is true for rescinding of 3L offers.
28/ 49/134: YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT. I am on the hiring committee in the Atlanta office of K&S. We have not met since fall recruiting ended. I don't know what the firm is going to do, but I do know that there has not been any hiring committee meeting to discuss it. Your claim that lots of 3Ls will have their offers rescinded is baseless at this point.
I don't buy any of that K&S bull. If this was such a secretive decision, no one in that room would've leaked it. "Management" would have no trouble whittling down the list to a few people...
135 is correct. 28 is a lying flamer.
I can confirm what 135 says. Hiring committee in Atlanta did not meet today, this month, or this year. Why would it? Does anybody think the decision of start date or rescinding offers is made by a bunch of associates on the hiring committee?
Who really knows what to believe. It is just as unlikely that three seperate people on the "hiring committee" would drop into ATL and call out the supposed "flamer."
The truth is someone is full of sh*t and unfortunately for the 3L's there is still no confirmation as to when or if there start dates will be this year....
135 - Funny how you said "your claim that lots of 3L's will have their offers rescinded is baseless AT THIS POINT." If that doesn't reveal a whole lot about what is really going on behind the scenes at K&S then...
Just like the layoffs that weren't happening last week, it is only a matter of time until one of the poor ex-K&S 3L's leak actual confirmation of this story. Then the "management" will come out at put their little spin on it. I see a pattern here.
140 -- this is 135. it does not reveal anything, you moron. As I said, I don't know what K&S is going to do, I just know what it has done so far. And as for the layoffs, K&S admitted them in a statement; you are confusing your firms (see, ATL post on A&B "stealth layoffs"). Assface.
139 is right -- anybody who acts based on information solely from this blog is an idiot, especially based on information in the anonymous posts from flamers like 140. Law students should call people at their firms and ask them what is going on; if you don't know someone at your firm you can call, then you have bigger problems.
According to this ABA Journal article - http://www.abajournal.com/news/morris_manning_cuts_all_incoming_associates/ - there were only 9 students affected. So why the notice by voicemail? Is it really that difficult to personally deliver a message to only 9 people? Voicemail seems cowardly and to merely add insult to injury. I've always had good experiences with the MMM attorneys I've worked with on cases, but whoever's running the show over there on the management/HR/recruiting side clearly doesn't know what the hell they're doing.
31 - please clarify your cantor colburn comment... I looked at that chart that 128 posted and it looks like that firm is growing the most
Comments 28/49 (re: K&S 3L offers) are from the same poster. Check the odd use of quotation marks, and both comments have ellipses:
I just got out of a hiring committee meeting and King & Spalding and the firm is either going to push back start dates for 3L's for one year or simply let the 3L's go....a "top management" is supposed to make adecision before "signing" bonuses are sent out in the next couple of weeks. No talk of severance, etc. was mentioned.
28 - I was in the same meeting. So much for the need to keep it "confidential." -- You better hope they don't scan your sent emails....
That said, I have heard that K&S employs an outside firm that actively monitors/eavesdrops on email and phone use. You've been warned!
I was in the hiring committee meeting and we discussed laying off Nervous T-10 1L.
the KS stuff is just bs. you don't have to believe me and I don't really care if you do. the flamer blatantly gives themselves away as 100% full of shit to anybody who knows. Once I re-read your flame it was obvious you're trying to fuck with people. My question is why? Why would you do that to people trying to enjoy their last month (s) of law school. You obviously have no job and no life. You will continue to lack both bc you're fucking up your karma by posting shit like this.
Wow - can you believe the backlash from the K&S recruiting team? If there was no merit to the flamers comments would there really be this interest from K&S trying to save face? Oh sorry, "flamers" comments . . . (just wanted to help confirm their discovery)
147/140/28/49 - I am not from the recruiting team. You can continue to post your flame here as much as you want but let me be the first to confirm that K&S is not rescinding offers for 3L's. In addition we are not pushing back start dates. 3L's will start on the date listed in their offer letter. There is a reason we are one of the top 40 firms on Vault and number 1 in Atlanta.
Furthermore, the flamer (147 et al.) yesterday chided KS for not responding to his stupid flame in the comments section of ATL. You cannot have it both ways. This is the last time I am responding to this crap. I am sorry that you got laid off, but you are truly pathetic. It's no wonder you got laid off - you cannot even run a successful ruse on ATL.
Not 148.
Any word on K&S start dates? I am hearing rumblings that start dates are going to be pushed back to September 2010. No stipend or anything either.