Alston & Bird: Deferred Start Dates, Short Summer
We’ve heard rumors for a while that Alston & Bird was deferring the start dates of its incoming first year associates, but the firm refused to confirm the news. We’ve finally gotten our hands on the memo. It appears that Alston & Bird is doing exactly what you would expect:
Entering Associates: we will defer the start date for incoming associates until January 19, 2010. We will be providing a stipend of $10,000 to help defray expenses during the deferral period. In addition, we have offered the opportunity to pursue a one year public service or pro bono fellowship — and we have a number of these we can make available - to a limited group of our entering associates. For those approved for a fellowship, we will provide a payment of $5000/month.
One incoming tipster is fairly upbeat about A&B’s plan:
[S]eems about in line with most other big firms and the public service stipend is pretty good money for Atlanta if you can actually find one of those jobs these days. they must be trying to make up for the economic and stealth layoff bloodbath of late.
It appears that incoming first years have known about the plan for at least a week. So, A&B’s desire to be stealthy with its issues in this economy has not unduly harmed its incoming first years in their attempts to find alternate employment for a year. Other firms should take note that the longer they wait to defer start dates, the harder it is for their first years to secure new jobs for a year.
Alston & Bird is also scaling back its 2009 summer associate program to nine weeks.
Read the full A&B memo after the jump.
ALSTON & BIRD — MEMO — DEFERRED START DATES
Over 2008 and this year, the Partners Committee has undertaken a number of actions to ensure we are being sound financial stewards of the firm while continuing our hiring and development efforts. To that end, we have made several recent decisions that take these goals into account.
Summer Program: we have decided that the maximum length of our summer program in any particular office will be nine weeks. This still allows us to provide a meaningful summer experience for us and our summer associates, while realizing appropriate cost savings and enabling us to ensure we have a solid level of work projects to assign to our summer associates. Our summer program still remains our main source for securing our long term talent. This balance of investing in our human capital while managing expenses will enable us to still have a robust, productive and engaging program this summer.”
Entering Associates: we will defer the start date for incoming associates until January 19, 2010. We will be providing a stipend of $10,000 to help defray expenses during the deferral period. In addition, we have offered the opportunity to pursue a one year public service or pro bono fellowship — and we have a number of these we can make available - to a limited group of our entering associates. For those approved for a fellowship, we will provide a payment of $5000/month. Further details are available to entering associates interested in pursuing this option. We’ll also be providing salary advances as well as covering bar exam/study course fees and moving expenses.
Many of you have offered suggestions to these and other related issues we have been discussing and addressing this year which have resulted in these decisions. I appreciate hearing from you and welcome your further creativity in finding solutions that work to our collective benefit. Thanks for your thoughtfulness and support.
Earlier: Stealth Layoff Watch: Alston & Bird




Comments
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I remember wanting to work here SO badly...
How will this affect those of us at good firms?
V10 Stud
Way to aim high, @1.
2 - You're next.
V5 Stud
At least this firm did not give me AIDS.
Kirkland Chicago
4 - So are you.
V1 Stud
I have a coat hanger with your name on it V1 stud.
what a way to give the class of 2009 the ultimate FUCK YOU bird.
I knew some guys in high school that used to defray each other's expenses in the parking lot after school. People were upset about it at first, but then I guess they got used to it.
6- so are you
V0 stud
8 = vanderbilt law grad who thought Bird was the "cravath of the south"
V5 and V1 studs must be shocked -- shocked! -- to learn that pedigree will not save them. Yes, even you, V1 stud. The incoming associates from YHS got their offers deferred the same as did all those from "lesser" schools.
8 - Not nearly as bad as the FUCK YOU Gaythem gave their first years.
Elie,
Why no article on firms that provide reasonable start dates? Gibson put start dates in November 2009 with no deferral BS and the offer of a four week loan in addition to the 13K stipend.
Some good news for once??????
10 - So are you.
Law Prof Stud
You weren't alone in that feeling, 1. I am so glad I went to another firm.
I like A&B.
What ever happened to the time honored tradition of Nailing Sheep?
"Other firms should take note that the longer they wait to defer start dates . . . "
Can anyone "in the know" (Biglaw associate, preferrably 4th year +) tell me if any decision makers at these firms actually track what other firms are doing, and if they then make decisions based on the policies of other firms? I'd ask if it broke down along vault ranking lines (V100 looks to V50 who look to V20 who look to V10 who do whatever they want), but I summered at a midwestern V100 and I did not get the sense that they were tailoring their hiring policies based on what, say, Weil or any other NYC firms do.
It's nice to have this info exchange that is ATL, but does anyone really think that this website and the information it reports actually effects law firm policy?
-curious 3L
A&B is a great firm -- one of the best in Atlanta.
Although not a peer firm, I am very perturbed of these severance and deferral practices. Just cut the dead weight loose. Who are these firms trying to impress? I am hardly moved by their subterfuge.
I am very disheartened by the law firm letters expressing sorrow and appreciation for departing associates. If I had to draft a press release it would go along these lines:
"The economy is in the pits. My financial bottom line is being depleted by your (associates') salaries. My survival and ability to maintain my lifestyle outweigh the needs of your meager existence. Be very grateful for the opportunity I gave you. Goodbye."
Terminated associates and incoming associates do not deserve anything. Let them sink or swim just like in the good old days.
Keep them coming!! Milbank, just put me out of my misery already please!!!
My 3500 sq ft wife always encouraged me to shoot for the stars. That is how I managed my way into Locke Lord Houston.
Texas Dunne
Partner Emeritus -- I've missed you!
Partner Emeritus ---- You are the man ... what do you consider a reasonable offer to incoming associates?
how will this affect their "Best Place to Work (for staff, not lawyers)" ranking?
@21, your face looks like a vagina sucking on lemons.
What about the next round of layoffs at McDermott?
Any news on Greenberg Traurig? There were reports in the comments about a shortened summer program and salary cuts.
@29 -- Already happened.
Alston & Bird got a little taste of the Ponzy.
29 -- salary cuts, short summer, deferred incoming associates (no stipend or salary advance offered).
Does showing Charlie Murphy your titties count as "public interest work?" If so, I got five grand right here bitches!
None of you people know shit
I have been with Skadden for only a couple of months now and already got a raise and a second secretary who does nothing but wipe my ass and fetch me espressos.
You are all idiots.
30/32,
Across all offices? How much of a salary cut and how long of a deferral?
K&S to follow shortly. They tend to follow A&B a lot.
any official word from K&S or KS?
Milbank needs to GET ON IT!!! We are all waiting for the news to drop! We know you will defer our start dates, so just get it over with!!!
KS is legal jargon for AIDS.
so much bad news here http://www.blackbooklegal.com
This comment is addressed to posts nos. 25 and 27.
25: Nothing is reasonable. Most associates have a law degree and some scintilla of intelligence. Use your industry and skill to find another job.
27: I am sure my face looked nothing as putrid as the doctor who delivered you upon gazing his sights on the trogldyte that you are.
42 - NAILED himself and now has KS.
19- the short answer is "Yes"
22, 39 and all you milwankers constantly posting here: this is what you get for having gone to such a TTT of a firm. help yourself out by going to class and studying for finals instead of trolling on ATL.
44, I'm still skeptical, but thanks for the insight.
Well... thank God I got no-offered by A&B then.
Bird is not the word apparently
I was so upset A&B rejected me but I am the one with a full 13 weeks of summer employment ahead of me!
19,
I worked at a firm that got bad press in the ATL comments for no-offering 2/3s of its summer class in one of its offices one year. Because of the negative reactions to the comments, the recruiting coordinator and hiring partner made calls to all of the people who had outstanding offers to join the firm the following summer to assure them that the previous summer was an anomaly and that the firm would make efforts to give offers to all of the summer associates the next year.
I'm sure what I described might not be the norm, but I do think that ATL does cause firms to do certain things that they might not have done before associates/potential hires had access to the information found on ATL.
KS has already made a decision. 3L deferred to sept 2010 with no stipend or allowance.
@50. Interesting. Thanks.
19/46- I understand your skepticism, but firms get their information here, from each other, etc. These decisions are not made in a vaccuum and I'm pretty confident firms who haven't announced yet are trying to place themselves in the middle of the pack on start dates, deferrals, etc. It might not always be so prevalent and your observations might have been right at the time, but under current conditions in which no one is really sure what to do, it makes sense to tailor the plans to what others are doing rather than stand out negatively (not that it really pays to stand out positively). Not saying it is good or bad, just "is."
AlsTTTon....
AlsTTTon....
AlsTTTon....
15, so are you
Charlotte School of Law Stud
aTTTlanta
That's what you get when you hire 159 LSAT's from Boalt.
I don't get the whole TTT crap when referring to Alston/Atlanta/anything else. Anyone who is actually in a better position than someone with a job in Atlanta at Alston & Bird should not be stupid enough to actually think such a job is a third tier toilet job. If you do think that such a job is TTT, why are you wasting your time mocking people who have worked hard to get such a job. Those with a worse job/no job (90% of all law students/attorneys) might be stupid enough to think that is funny, but are insulting something that they wish they could have. Please explain...
I don't get the whole TTT crap when referring to Alston/Atlanta. Anyone who is actually in a better position than someone with a job in Atlanta at Alston & Bird should not be stupid enough to actually think such a job is a third tier toilet job. If you do think that such a job is TTT, why are you wasting your time mocking people who have worked hard to get such a job. Those with a worse job/no job (90% of all law students/attorneys) might be stupid enough to think that is funny, but are insulting something that they wish they could have. Please explain...
ATL needs to follow up on #14. GDC is offering November 2009 start dates. No deferral.
60/61: Charlotte School of Law dominates the Southeast, regularly placing more students into big law firms than its peer schools (UVA, Vandy, etc. That's all you need to know.
Charlotte Law School Stud
60/61: Charlotte School of Law dominates the Southeast, regularly placing more students into big law firms than its peer schools (UVA, Vandy, etc.) That's all you need to know.
Charlotte Law School Stud
It looks at least the better Hayes brother cares about preserving their rep - KS didn't even notify their 3L's about the year deferral for weeks.
Some commenters are referring to a KS deferral - is the King & Spalding or Kilpatrick Stokton?
although i heard K&S deferrals are only to Jan 2010, it's interesting that AB would offer stipends and KS wouldn't.
Whatever happened to Nervous T? Got revoked?
Where are the comments about GT? Normal above the law seach doesn't pull them up.
23,
3500 sq ft???...dude, your wife is HUGE!!
69 -- Look at the King & Spalding thread -- that's where all the posts about other firms seem to be.
yeah KS is a piece of shit. no $ no nothing. I can't believe they had the nerve to do that. I knew it was a shitty place to work but NOT ONE FUCKING DIME?!?!?!?!? HOW DO THOSE COUNTRY BUMPKINS EXPECT PEOPLE TO LIVE?! OH that's right. Just live of the presTTTige of of KS. Kiss my ass KS. Oh that's right, you are ass. Elie, get on that KS shit. I already sent you an email, humiliate those fools.
71--what KS thread? The old one with the lay off announcement?
Elie, Please humiliate KS for this lack of any sort of $. KS tries to act as if they are above all other firms in ATL and can play with the big boys. You can't play with the big boys or even the medium sized boys without offering at least a loan.
KS, you are the weakest link! Goodbye!*
*Goodbye as in you will be dissolving within a year. Back to latte-making practice....
71- You can say that again, somehow that thread got turned into a thread about Sutherland. The partners and or their wifes are absolutely insane and turning on each other on the blog. It's hilarious.
Or, maybe it's the staff, it's hard to tell, but it is a must read, especially if you want to go into litigation or energy.
The silence out of Sutherland is deafening.
does AB have lots of lesbian partners like King & Spalding ? does AB have any lesbian partners who have had sex with clients ? if not, why not ? what the hell is wrong with AB ?
Does AB look the other way while associates sleep their way to partnership?
This is vital info. We need to know how to keep on the partner track (which apparently can be one lap short at Sutherland if you sleep with your practice group leader).
Sutherland is keeping quite because they don't want the other shoe to drop.
Can we keep this thread on topic? Nobody cares about whatever drama is going on at Sutherland.
K&S pushed back to January 2010. No word on stipends. They won't be able to keep up with recruiting if they don't match what A&B is doing, but maybe things are so in the crapper that they don't care.
Please 79, if someone wants to go to Atlanta, they are going to pick K&S if they have a choice.
It's just when you have kids in private schools in Atlanta and you have a choice between Lovett and Westminster, you are going to send your kids to Westminster.
Been there, done that, seen it all.
78- are you the one who tried to start rumors about K&S on all the threads this past week? You go away, we care about drama and truth, not rumors.
79 - perfect example.
A&B associate here: Our firm still fails to match the large bonus that K&S and Sutherland give to associates who work hard. But we cater to these useless new associates. Typical of A&B.
KS = Kilpatrick Stockton
K&S = King & Spalding
K&S pushed start date to Jan. 2010, and did so week or so ago in messages directly to its new associates. Not sure about KS.
Anyone who thinks anything that happens right now will impact recruiting is an idiot. A firm could replace all its new associates with monkeys and would get a pass this season. Just be happy to have a job and STFU.
83- Thanks, I didn't even know KS mattered anymore.
Sutherland doesn't come close to the bonuses of K&S.
Plus, you have to sleep with creepy partners at Sutherland to get anywhere.
Where is it that K&S has pushed back start dates? Did I miss something?
Either Sutherland or Kilpatrick will not exist 1/1/10
The partners at A&B are very concerned about the lack of work. It is more than just transactional area; litigation is very slow too. Be afraid; be very afraid.
Seems to me that there are really two choices in Atlanta:
1. Go to K&S; work on sophisticated stuff; and work your ass off; or
2. Go anywhere else; work on mediocre to shitty stuff; pretend you are at a life-style firm.
Then how does Sutherland keep the rep that they are such a good firm?
What the hell is going on at Sutherland?
90 -- history; old history
People at Sutherland are boring.
Man, Alston sucks.
K&S has not announced any start date yet.
86 - K&S did push back to September 2010. No stipend, There would be a formal memo posted like the one here by AB but K&S didn't want to get out that they are screwing over their new associates so bad. That is why they told their new associates that if anything gets forwarded to ATL then their jobs are done.
Word of warning.... all the Atlanta firms are freaking paranoid about their secrets getting out. Heard some heavy shit went down at Sutherland about people posting.
96 -- that is totally false. I am 3L due to start at K&S after school; got an e-mail with a Jan. 2010 start date.
96- did they really tell their associates that?
Everyone knows the economy sucks, why hide things.
Look how stupid Sutherland looks.
98- You mean they didn't want you before school?
Uh-oh, 98. I think we've stumbled onto something, they are staggering the start dates to hedge their bets.
89: Perhaps that is the case, but plenty of people willingly turn down K&S. I did. I interviewed with every major firm in Atl, and K&S seemed so full of itself--it was a real turn-off. You'll find plenty of people at any other major Atl firm who turned down K&S. No regrets here.
96 is total flame. K&S incomings got pushed back to Jan 2010, and were set to meet at a later date regarding "all of the terms."
102- What firm isn't full of themselves?
104- fair enough. Most lawyers are arrogant, but K&S just rubbed me the wrong way. One of the partners I interviewed with started trashing other firms during the later "recruiting" calls trying to get me to accept their offer.
105- Did you end up in Atlanta?
96 - "all of the terms"?? What the hell is that?
Ditto to 102. In got offers from most of the major firms in Atlanta, including K&S. The people just seemed to take themselves too seriously. I ended up at A&B and have no regrets. Of course, there are people here that take themselves too seriously, but, overall, there are fewer d-bags.
The Confederate army also lost.
Would anybody pick KS and Sutherland over any other major Atlanta firms?
I think this is a rational way to deal with things. Are they charging interest on the salary deferral?
What about health insurance?
BUH BUH BUH BUT IT'S THE BEST COMPANY TO WORK FOR
Any truth to the rumor that A+B axed their entire first year class?
106- yes, I did end up in Atlanta, at one of the other major firms.
Is A&B even relevant anymore in the Atlanta legal community?
113 - No. But K&S is currently conducting stealth layoffs in their DC office for sure and probably every other office as well. Still wondering when that secret "all of the terms" meeting is going to take place that 96 mentioned.
115- more relevant than Sutherland or KS.
116 and 96 were made by the same K&S troll that apparently got dinged by the D.C. office. He pulled this same crap in an earlier thread. Sorry about the rejection bro, but your patently false allegations re: K&S belie your intense bitterness and insecurity.
For those not in the know,
A&B generally has a pretty good reputation in Atlanta. That being said, they also run a business and have to make tough decisions. Many folks I know believe that the problem with that firm is that they try (more than most firms) to do both at the same time. This leads to some of the more difficult measures being taken by stealth: layoffs, staff reductions, etc. They don't want it to get out that when it comes down to it, they're just like every other large law firm out there (at least in the sense that partners only care about their draws and little else).
118- what part of 116 & 96's response is false. Please do share what you know. I am a 3L looking to join K&S this fall and really want to know when I will be starting and whether there will be a public interest option for a year like A&B's.
All of the big firms in Atlanta have a dim future.
120 -- if you are really a K&S 3L, then you already received an e-mail with the start date. If you are "looking to join K&S" -- meaning you don't have an offer yet -- then you are out of luck my friend.
116's claims of "stealth layoffs" is nonsense -- recall that K&S's layoffs were reported publicly. Stop it, you stupid troll.
122 - Does anyone have a copy of this email. It would be great to compare the A&B memo with the K&S one.
There is no official memo. See post 96 above. The "official terms" are to be released. I would hate to be an incoming associate at K&S. By the time they get their act together and put together the details there won't be any public interest jobs left. That may be their plan all along. Come out with the same offer as A&B but wait long enough that nobody can get those jobs. It allows them to keep face without having to pay anything.
124- Good point.
Have any of the other Atlanta firms stated changes for summer and incoming assoicates?
124 - I agree. How TTT can you be. I know incoming associates are the bottom of the food chain, but decide already.
lol at 124 - 126.
124 -- makes no sense. If you want a public interest job, go get one now. Why do you have to wait to hear if your firm is going to pay you for it?
124 -- don't rely on 96 for anthing (see 98 and 103 above)
K & S has some lesbian partner who apparently likes to sleep with her clients - that's why K&s rocks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
K&S does not rock - no partner bonuses the past 2 years and random layoffs last year on top of recent layoffs ... but it is nice to have lesbians. does anyone have photos of the lesbians in action ?
does K&S have an affirmative action program for lesbians ? i like that a lot
131, I'm sure the layoffs were entirely random and had nothing to do with your stupidity
I think it's unfair that you keep concentrating on lesbians, gay men have rights too you know.
lesbians are hot ................... do any of the lesbians at K&S do 3-ways ? if i became a client, would they let me watch ?
lesbians are hot ................... do any of the lesbians at K&S do 3-ways ? if i became a client, would they let me watch ?
133 - do have any pictures of you and your lesbian friends in action ? - i like that
137- are you a partner at Sutherland?
128 - Who really wants to do public interest work if they aren't getting paid for it?
Nice, 128. A&B sounds like the right place for you -- image over substance.
Sorry, 128; comment was meant for 139.
140
Sutherland has sucky bonuses and in some years no bonuses at all no matter how many hours you work.
Yea, but at Sutherland they have kinky partners and crazy wifes.
Things must be going well at Sutherland, nothing on street about layoffs.
Sutherland has a reputation as a good firm? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Sutherland has had layoffs - months ago and again recently. Just look in the FCDR where Mark Wasserman admitted it but refused to say how many to protect those being laid off.
If I was laid off from them I'd be pretty mad in light of the fact they paid people two and half million dollars to keep quiet what everyone already knew.
Whatever happened to KS???
Why does EVERYONE on EVERY blog hate Sutherland?
The reasons are so many. I don't think this blog has enough power to handle them all.
Yea, just go to the last thread on K&S......800 comments, most about Sutherland.
86--
I don't know what the hell you're talking about when it comes to KS. Total flame. Kilpatrick has one of the top IP practices in the country, and lot of other firms out there would give their collective left nut to have it. Of the practice areas that are still able to make money in this kind of an economy, I would much rather take my chances with IP than just about any other practice.
The economy is tough enough right now without people like you just pulling statements out of their asses.
HTH
I clerked for A&B in Atlanta for a year prior to law school. I can't say that any of this comes as a surprise. They have some sleazy business practices. But for the longest time, you would only hear about the great benefits. Top 100 places to work. Right.
The reason so many staff members are being laid off is because they no longer can get away with billing for so much useless and inefficient work. Charging clients 75-100 dollars an hour to have a clerk put labels on file folders will only go unnoticed for so long. If I had a nickel for every time I heard the phrase "no rush." Well no kidding, this is just going on a shelf when I finish.
Best serve the client, my foot.
63 and 64...ummm Charlotte School of Law had a 67% bar passage rate...the lowest in the state!!!!..how can u place people in the southeast when they cant even pass the bar!