Is one eating sour grapes?

If I'm a current clerk applying to firms, should I volunteer in my cover letter to give up the clerkship bonus?

I love how ATL makes LW look bad at every step. This "Latham Case Study" seems to have zero factual basis without any confirmation by even a tipster.

What a joke!

....let the Latham troll comments commence

This shows how exposed the legal market is to boom and bust cycles or, better yet, it shows the ridiculously poor business acumen of law firm management. Two years ago, when I clerked, firms were throwing elaborate parties almost every week to recruit clerks (in NY). Now these same firms are revoking offers! If it was not so sad, it would be absurd.

4 - Why do you think that has "zero factual basis"? Lat references discussions with "sources" (same thing as "a tipster").

Also, the firm didn't respond. If something is untrue, let the firm deny it.

I don't think the post makes Latham look bad. It goes out of its way to note that Latham is "a firm that historically has been popular with law clerks, especially Supreme Court clerks."

Then it links to this article from Law.com:

http://www.law.com/jsp/llf/PubArticleLLF.jsp?id=1162461919294

if a clerk cannot find a job, they arent looking. get over being let go by your "choice" firm. it sucks, but move on. you probably will end up happier somewhere that wants you. there are likely a lot of places like that.

Let them be eaten by Mystal.

promissory estoppel claim?

Following up on commenter #3, should I say that I am flexible on class year? (I am nearing the end of a two-year clerkship.)

4 here

Law firms can't get in the business of denying or confirming every rumor that some journalist (or somebody like Elie) throws out there. If you deny something once, you have to continue to deny every rumor or else any future failures to deny a rumor will be perceived as true. It's pretty basic. It's what sports teams, politicians, and major businesses do all the time.

Bottom line - it's a non-story until someone actually gets an offer revoked. What month is it? Oh right, March. In any other year, these clerks wouldn't even be thinking about this.

12 - I know for a fact that my firm has had several ATL stories killed by denying them (and explaining why the stories couldn't be true).

I draw adverse inferences from silence.

F*%^K the clerks... let associates keep their jobs

In 2007, I left my NY-based law firm to clerk with an implied offer to return. In late February 2008, two weeks after having spoken with the firm and discussing start dates, I was told that the firm had just instituted a global hiring freeze and that it applied to associates who had left to clerk. Let's just say it wasn't easy finding another job at that point in the year, and that was 2008 - so sympathy to those clerking now. Good luck.

People who are currently clerking should look into government jobs (including second clerkships).

It is too bad that DOJ Honors is done hiring for 2009.

PROMISSORY ESTOPPEL DOES NOT WORK IN THE REAL WORLD. (in most states).

13 - Your firm is stupid for engaging in that behavior - I hope they didn't layoff their PR staff that will continue to generate work responding to the self-proclaimed "Legal Tabloid."

To #3 and #11: Why volunteer to make those concessions? Why not wait for the firm to suggest them to you?

How exactly does a cold offer work? You go into the hiring partner's office and he says, "You can say you got an offer, but you can't work here"? Do you get an offer letter like everyone else? What happens when some cold offeree inevitably tries to accept?

BIG TREE FALL HARD

The ship be sinking...

8- Have you not been paying attention to the legal market over the last few months? No one is hiring, especially not clerks who didn't work for the firm over the summer.

MoFo CA is not taking clerks back. Sadly, I am one of them!

20 - Basically they send you the offer letter, but someone tells you orally, "We've given you an offer, but WE THINK YOU MIGHT BE HAPPIER SOMEWHERE ELSE."

For more on the cold offer, read this:

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/08/open_thread_cold_offers.php

This old news. We already heard about Kirkland revoking positions held for clerks from comments in a post at least a week ago. Thus, no surprise that Latham is doing the same thing that Kirkland and other firms are doing to clerks.

8 -- Your perception is misguided. I'm a COA clerk who accepted the offer from my firm immediately after I was hired, when my judge told me he didn't care. I consider myself lucky. I would say that at least a third of the COA clerks in my courthouse will be unemployed in September. At least another third have open offers, but were hoping to end up at a different firm than the one they summered at last year. They have all been completely shut out. All of these people come from top 10 law schools, have open offers from V10 firms, and have been unable to land a single interview. Firms do NOT need us right now. I'm praying that my offer remains, since I formally accepted over a year ago. But who knows . . . what's an "acceptance" worth in this climate?

What about bankruptcy clerks...?...

How far can it sink?

Latham (Broebeck Jr.) is in horrible shape people. I'll be surprised if they survive 2010.

This is excellent news for me!

27 - Wow, that's scary. Thanks for the info/perspective.

Why hasn't Latham booted senior management yet?

we aren't giving up on the bonuses.

19 - Because if you don't offer "sua sponte" to make the concessions, the firm may just place your resume in the "reject" pile (instead of offering you the chance to make concessions).

#8 - you have no idea how tough the market is right now.

I graduated magna cum laude/Order of the Coif/Law Review from a top-20 school and summered two summers at a top-5 firm. I'm a district court clerk.

Over 120 resumes, cover letters, writing samples submitted to firms. One interview. Period. At a firm ranked roughly 50th in the Vault 100.

we aren't giving up on the bonuses.

Bankruptcy clerks aren't immune, especially if the firm where you have an "offer" has already fired first years and pushed back start dates for incoming grads. Sorry buddy.

34 / 37 - Seriously? Clerkship bonuses are so 2006.... Wake up and smell the recession.

I don't know if it's a policy, but I do know that Quinn has refused to take back at least two associates who left to clerk last year, despite the fact that they were told when they left that they would be welcomed back. (There's one other one who might have heard the same thing, but it's possible she chose not to come back, I don't know her well enough to ask.) Don't know what happened to one of the two I know, but the other is finishing up his 9th Cir clerkship and can't find a job anywhere.

I am beginning a district court clerkship this fall and my judge told me to accept my offer at the firm I worked at last summer, so I did. I'm hoping if they start rescinding/firing people they will spare me.

38, who's firing bankruptcy associates these days, first year or otherwise?

34--I'm in complete agreement. It's going to be quite difficult, however. Firms may claim they never offered the bonus they said they did. If a firm doesn't explain that they are rescinding/decreasing a clerking bonus because of economic circumstances, it's time to start looking elsewhere.

No one is safe, 43.

Things are bad people. We need to organize and demand concessions from our student lenders. The jobs that were going to allow us to pay back that debt no longer exist and may never come back.

33, Probably because cost cutting like this is good for the firm.

Clerks don't really add anything special for the bonuses and class year bumps that they get when you have plenty of associates sitting around with nothing to do.

Just accepted a post-clerkship biglaw job at 50% normal clerkship bonus.

In the past month, Sidley has repeatedly promised incoming clerks the full bonus on their first day of work -- including yesterday, when they sent out an e-mail to all the incoming associates pushing start dates back from September/October to November.

42, I didnt say firms were making bankruptcy cuts, Im saying if your firm has already made cuts generally, that means there's probably more to come, and whatever bankruptcy associates they now need, they've already hired (quite easily in this market). By the time your clerkship is over, they won't be holding a space for you. The good times are over.

-38

Prestige whores no find work? So sorry.

QUINN REMAINS

4, I don't think the "case study" makes Latham look bad. It makes Latham look prudent.

I agree with 46: "Clerks don't really add anything special for the bonuses and class year bumps that they get when you have plenty of associates sitting around with nothing to do."

lol @ 15. what kind of reasonable lawyer relies on an "implied" promise? either you had a secret deal or you didn't. clearly you were forced out ("hey bob, why dontcha go get some clerkship experience!") and have yet to realize it.

52, yah it's "prudent" to be so poor that you have to mass fire associates and screw over your clerks.

What will SCOTUS clerkship bonuses be like this year? Surely not $250K again. It would be offensive for a firm that has done layoffs to pay Supreme Court clerks a quarter million in bonuses each.

"it shows the ridiculously poor business acumen of law firm management"

I never have understood why people bitch about this. Law is a cash-out business. Those running the firms cash out in the good times and enjoy the high life, then fire the drones in the bad times and keep cashing out. Hard to see why this is "ridiculously poor business acumen." Maybe the old interest/incentive disconnect, but not bad business.

Some firms have to be hiring Bankruptcy Clerks right? Good lord I hope.....

#45: "Things are bad people. We need to organize and demand concessions from our student lenders. The jobs that were going to allow us to pay back that debt no longer exist and may never come back."

I hope they laugh in your face and make you sell your car. (I was going to say children, but that sounded like a bit much for a Thursday morning). You bet on the market and lost. You could have gone to school for free (or at least cheap), but decided that debt was a better option. I hope it works out for your buddy, but I'm not very sympathetic.

53 - How many V50 litigation partners are there that never completed a judicial clerkship? Probably near zero. If you have interest in a long term career with the firm in litigation and your firm has indicated you're on the partnership track, then you've got to do a clerkship.

Way to take a baseless shot at Latham.

8 here - the two clerks that I know had no trouble. is there one area of law that is an issue? both when into ip litigation, so maybe that is the reason. i dont know. i am sorry for my ignorance. i do hope that everyone finds a job. your clerkship should be a year to enjoy your hard work, and now its a year of worrying.

best of luck. sorry again.

"If you have interest in a long term career with the firm in litigation and your firm has indicated you're on the partnership track, then you've got to do a clerkship."

False. Thanks for playing.

Glad I accepted a career clerkship...can ride out the Obama wave of terror.

15 - My clerkship ends this year and my firm has also frozen. So far, I've gotten letters from many firms stating that they are not hiring right now, blah blah.
Any current clerks out there with offers for this fall?

15 - My clerkship ends this year and my firm has also frozen. So far, I've gotten letters from many firms stating that they are not hiring right now, blah blah.
Any current clerks out there with offers for this fall?

59 is the most uninformed comment I have *ever* seen on ATL. Yeah, I said it: MOST. UNINFORMED. EV-AH!

I encourage you to spend some time scouring partner profiles at any biglaw firm. The majority did not clerk. The only places where you find an overwhelming concentration of clerks are academia and appellate litigation. Sure, it's very common for biglaw partners to have clerkships under their belts. But it's also very common for them not to, especially on the transactional side.

Agree with 4 and 60. This Latham addition doesn't seem to be news at all, nor does it have any basis in corroborated fact. Elie is starting to look a bit biased towards trashing these guys...almost or maybe worse than his blatant Cravath killing. When did ATL become a sounding board for Elie's personal firm antipathy?

The fact that the firm is popular with SCOTUS clerks though should help boost the fact that no matter what Latham has suffered in business, they still get top talent. I remember when I was recruiting that it was one of the harder offers to get from V5-V10.

I am a COA clerk (hopefully) going to a NY firm this fall. FWIW, I was told I would get the $50k bonus earlier this week and that everything is fine.

I hope that's still true a few months from now.

Best of luck to everyone. Some of us clerked because we wanted to do something to give back before we entered a law firm. For me it has never been about the "prestige"--whatever prestige there is to working 80+ hour weeks for 1/3 of what you could be making elsewhere--but about serving the legal profession and giving back to the community. I appreciate the firm giving bonuses because it changes people's incentives to clerk and makes it easier for us who come from poor families who could not otherwise afford an expensive law school followed by a job that pays 1/3 of what we could be making.

Left a firm to clerk with the understanding I could return there in the fall. That offer is gone and I'm back to square one with my search.

Don't give up on the bonuses.

You think the reason we give them is prestige and competitiveness. Sure. But mostly, we give them because we have to write off so much time for juniors, and we like people who have already been trained.

I'm actually thinking of changing my mind about a federal clerkship that was to start this fall. I've been in govt work since graduating a few years ago. With this economy, the pay cut I would take (not to mention moving expenses and non-eligibility for the Thrift Savings Plan), coupled with the uncertainty of what would happen at the end of the clerkship, scares the h--- out of me right now.

60 - It's not a "baseless" shot. I know at least some of the clerks providing the factual basis.

with all the layoffs, will it be substantially harder for people with work experience to get clerkships?

Is there a list of firms that have/have not renegged on pre-clerkship offers and/or bonuses?

3 - No. That makes you look desparate. If you are desparate, maybe mention it in an interview, but not right off the bat in the CL.

71 - are you just going to tell your judge to go scratch?

59 = law student.

yes, it's a wonderful idea for someone who has a real shot at partner in a V50 firm to take a year off in the middle of their career to go clerk. a year away absolutely will not affect the relationships and network they've built at the firm, and thus derail those partnership prospects. not one bit.

The sky is not yet falling on bonuses. I know someone who is going to Kirkland and they told him to expect in the neighborhood of $35K. Sidley and Gibson Dunn are still saying $50K, and I hear from Texas friends that the Texas firms are too.

8: you obviously don't realize how bad the market is. NO firms are hiring, so clerks whose offers have been rescinded, like me, are forced to look elsewhere. have you missed the layoffs by the hundreds? I can understand that firms don't want to take clerks back--we are the easiest to get rid of, and it seems better than laying off current attorneys. However, it still sucks.

10 and 17 - Screw promissory estoppel and how it really works, will someone explain to me why there would not be a breach of contract claim?

Ex: A firm offers a job to a clerk or student and they accept (both in writing). That is a contract. The firm later calls the clerk and says they no longer have a job. How is this not a breach of K? Damages should be the value of the K minus the duty to mitigate (i.e. find a similar job). Since no similar jobs are likely available, there is no mitigation. Shouldn't the clerk or student be entitled to the value of the employment K?

I understand firing associates is perfectly legal because they are at-will employees. I just don't see how contracts can be broken with no recourse to students or clerks.

Please explain (preferably without simply calling me a moron or saying "they would ruin their career before it started).

67 - This isn't an Elie post; it's a Lat post.

(Lat seems to do a lot of the clerkship-related coverage, esp. SCOTUS clerk hiring.)

From talking to the other clerks in my circuit, no firms are rescinding clerkship bonuses.

Current fed dist clerk. I've had one interview with a market paying lit boutique. That firm interviewed eight people for one spot, and the hiring partner told me that he was getting up to fifty resumes a day from headhunters.

And that's all I've been able to find. No one is hiring. So now I'm going to be unemployed and homeless in five months. Fuck.

29: the sky's the limit.

80: consideration.

80. Because attorney employment with virtually all law firms is "at-will." That means it can be ended for any time with or without reason. What makes you think that does not apply before you start? You might have a point if you and the firm agreed to a contract for employment for a set term. You might also have a point if the employment offer-letter a firm sends, which you accept in writing, does not say anything about at-will employment, though I think even then it would be tough.

My experience has been similar to, but not quite as bad as, 27's. I'm a clerk at a "good" circuit and have sent out maybe 20 resumes, got about 5 interviews, and so far no offers. The other clerks that I know have similar stats. The market also seems to be tightening up as we speak; firms seem more reluctant to give offers to clerks now than they were just a few months ago.

81 - Maybe that's because Lat clerked. I'm not sure if Elie did.

80: You're a fucking moron.

The employment agreement (even though in writing) is not for a term certain; it is at-will, and both the associate and the firm are free to terminate the employment relationship at any time without exposing themselves to contract liability.

Why this relatively simple concept eludes you, I cannot say.

80: because when you accept in writing, the firm makes clear that it's at-will employment.

64--

COA clerk with a job to start in the fall. It was tough to come by. Like everyone else, I'm crossing my fingers that it doesn't fall through. Good luck to everyone.

As a clerk whose firm rescinded my offer, I could care less about the bonus. I would just like my job back.

80 - lack of consideration

71 - I agree w/ 76. Bad idea. Plus, hopefully by Fall 2010 (when I assume you're clerkship will end), everything will be back on the upswing.

Then again, if you decided not to take it, that's one more new opening for the rest of us...

80 = 1L with a B- in Contracts. But not a moron :)

The short answer is, with employment-at-will, there are no expectation damages. In theory the firm could fire you the day you start. If you had a promise to work for a specific term, that would be different. But no offer letter includes that.

95.

I agree, for the most part. But as to the 50K bonus, you expected that to be paid the day that your clerkship ends (before you even start at the firm).

76- well, if you consider "I no longer can clerk you this fall" to be "go scratch," then yes, that is a possibility. And I realize I'm potentially burning a big bridge in that market. But too many factors have changed since I accepted- finances, family, and other long-term stuff for me not to do some serious soul-searching the next few weeks.

Can people please NAME NAMES in terms of firms that are rescinding clerk offers?

85, 93 - Bilateral contract gentlemen. Bargain theory - promise to perform work by employee and promise to pay consideration by employer. Come on guys, give me more than that.

86, 89 - An offer letter from a firm would say, "We would like to offer you at-will employment beginning in September 2009"?

Otherwise, I would think that an offer that stated we are offering you employment to begin in September would not be "at will." I agree, once you started you would be an at-will employee, but I would not think this would apply before you started.

71, I was already laid off. how about about you give that clerkship to me?

Buddy of mine from law school, 2008 grad, clerking for a year just had his offer revoked from K&L Gates a couple of weeks ago.
Legal blogs focus widely on "layoffs" and 3L offers that were rescinded. Not that many articles (like this) focus on clerks who had their offers rescinded. It just makes it easier for firms to rescind and fly under the radar.

96: Nice try, but clerkship bonuses are almost uniformly contingent upon a full year of employment with the firm. They're paid on day one, but repayment is owed if you leave before a full year. Hence, no expectation damages. Thanks for playing.

I was #5 in my class at a T20 (graduated in 2008) and decided not to apply to clerk. Everyone I knew told me I was an idiot, that BigLaw would always be there, that it was just a year, etc. I'm feeling better about that decision right now.

"I agree, once you started you would be an at-will employee, but I would not think this would apply before you started."

Okay, so what are your damages then? Associates don't get paid anything before they start working.

"I agree, once you started you would be an at-will employee, but I would not think this would apply before you started."

Okay, so what are your damages then? Associates don't get paid anything before they start working.

I know two federal clerks in Chicago who have accepted with full $50K and $70K bonuses in the last two months. (The $70K was for two clerkships.)

99 = failed in contracts.

If the employee breaks his promise to perform work and decides to not start at the firm, the firm can sue him? For what?
Your "bilateral contract" has to work both ways.

103 - Until YOU get laid off....

I know two federal clerks in Chicago who both were offered full clerkship bonuses of $50K and $70K in the last two months. (The 70K was for two clerkships.)

82: i guess your circuit is the best! not only do you have a job when you complete your clerkship, you will have a fat bonus to boot! i'm sure that feels good, in light of all the layoffs and clerkship offers rescinded lately. enjoy!

Have clerks been successful getting federal government gigs outside of DOJ Honors?

97 - i think given the current climate, the judge would understand if you backed out. he/she might be pissed, but would probably get over it since there are so many qualified candidates applying that you could easily be replaced.

107 - Sure the firm can sue. Their damages are the cost of finding a similar employee.

95, 105 - I would argue the expected value of the contract, at least until a similar position is secured as long as reasonable effort is being used.

At the very least, the cost of searching to find employment (travel expenses, etc.) should be the damages.

114: Find a good outline now. Seriously. You are on a track to below-median grades, and zero offers from OCI next fall.

-- Caring 3L

99, so you're saying that you're not an "at-will" employee until you start working at the firm? Ok, under your analysis, I guess that means the firm should wait until you started working, and then fire you on the first day (which also means clawback/setoff of clerkship bonus).

Great plan.

Wow, law students about in these comments. You can tell by their bookish and arrogant responses. In the real world, if someone tried to sue on these "contracts," they'd be laughed out of court. Without a contract term and absent any age, sex, race or religious discrimination, it is extremely difficult to sue your employer; and even those things are tough to prove. FYI, judges don't look to your law school textbooks as a guide, and they sure as hell aren't going to award a snot nosed law student any damages.

Correction: "abound".

you stop caring about spelling once you start working.

So as a 2L considering whether to apply for clerkships in the fall, would it be better to accept an offer from our summer firm and forego clerkships (at least until the market is better)?

I'm a 7th year employment litigator. There's ample case law on this situation. A "contract" to offer a job isn't worth the paper it's written on because of at-will employment. However, you can potentially recoup your moving expenses if you moved in reliance on the contract before the job went up in smoke. That's about it. No damages for "lost opportunities," etc -- otherwise, people could sue on that every time they got fired or laid off from an at-will situation. Caveat Emptor.

119--NO! Clerk if you can, and as soon as possible.

baker botts in houston is paying $50K.

I'm a bankruptcy clerk, and I interviewed at 4 Vault 50 firms. What I am being told by the partners I interview with is that while bankruptcy is booming right now, rather than hire someone new, they would rather try to convert someone over from corporate or litigation who may not be making their billable hour requirements. It sucks, but at the same time, this is the world that we now live in. I have since agreed to stay on for an additional two years in hopes of finding something at the conclusion of my statutory term. Good luck to all the clerks out there. Better times are ahead, they have to be, because they can't get much worse.

71 - please post a transcript of your dialogue with the judge when you tell him/her that you are not coming to work for him/her.

Great article. I saw a similar one in February at:

http://blackbooklegal.blogspot.com/2009/02/clerking-in-this-economy.html

There is a great thread with insiders there

OK, I realize I am coming a little late to this thread, but here is my question for the contracts champion of the world: In October, my judge asked me to extend the term of my clerkship from one year to two, but my firm encouraged me to turn down the judge's offer and begin employment with them as originally planned. I followed their suggestion and my clerkship will end as scheduled. Now they are making noise about rescinding my offer. Comments? Suggestions? Damages?

117: Exactly. The real world is not like law school. "I would argue . . ." Hah. You would have to draft your own complaint and then quickly lose on a MTD.

119: No, apply for the clerkship. It will follow you for the rest of your career. I'm not saying that it is rational or fair, but people will initially view you differently if you have clerked. There are obviously many, many great lawyers who did not clerk, and also many clerks turn out to be terrible lawyers. But the fact is that like law school and law review, when someone doesn't have anything else to go on they will judge you by what you have done. In the legal profession, a COA clerkship carries weight. I'm sorry, but it does.

59 - thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. The vast majority of lit partners at most of of the V50 never clerked. Clerking didn't become such a big deal until the last decade or so.

While I agree that clerking is an amazing experience, which is why i am currently clerking for a district court judge, its certainly not one that's necessary to make partner in Big Law.

Any thoughts on the wisdom of doing more than one clerkship?

129:

A COA clership is always worthwhile.

As for a DCt clerkship after a COA clerkship, it depends. If you can land one in a major city (SDNY, DDC, etc.), then you should probably take it. But there are definite downsides to clerking a second time if you are planning to enter a big firm.

SCOTUS CLERKS TO "YOU'LL ACCEPT YOUR OFFER AND LIKE IT"!!!

According to Cravath's internal extranet for incoming clerks/associates, the $50k/$75k bonus is still intact. We shall see.

I recently finished my COA clerkship and received a "we're not hiring" letter from every V100 firm with a Chicago office. Grateful for the job I got at a smaller firm! (Still a little sad about the bonus, though.)

122: I thought that the "market" clerkship bonus in Texas was 35k. How do you know Baker Botts is offering 50k? Should I expect that from my TX firm?

I'm a current COA clerk looking for a job in NYC (different city from where I summered) - a lot of places aren't hiring, but those that are are paying the normal bonuses and salaries. I am getting very few interviews, even though my resume is pretty bangin.

123: Grades? School Rank? Location of Clerkship?

Im a Bankruptcy clerk myself...

Actually, I'm a deferring LW 3L in the midsts of deciding whether to clerk in the fall of 2010. I was told that as long as I didn't clerk during the deferral period (i.e., I starter my clerkship immediately after my deferral), that I would be eligible for the bonus and still have my memo-monkey job when I returned.

I don't know where you guys got your info but this seemed to be a pretty novel question to the powers that be at LW - they had to do some research and get back to me when I asked. To me, this evinces that the hiring clerks / clerkship bonus question hasn't even come up in earnest amongst the management at LW.

I've actually been pleasantly surprised to how open and direct my contacts at LW have been when I've approached them with questions. I'm sure it's no easy task keeping 260 some (nationwide) freaked-out 3Ls at bay.

I mean, sure, it's a scary proposition to think about losing a coveted job that you've worked the majority of your adult life to obtain, but sometimes 'thems the breaks.'

Please stick to reporting somewhat credible information and stay away from dramatic conjecture. People don't need any help freaking out at it is.

Legit question: I'm a current 3L, starting a clerkship in August. No firm lines up for after the clerkship. Should I preemptively (like in the first month or so) indicate to the judge I'd like to stay on a second year just to cover my ass in this market? Judge indicated that she has in the past let one clerk stay on as a third clerk that does some secretarial matters if they can't find a job right away after the clerkship....thoughts?

24 - what office? did you clerk right out of school, or were you an associate first? did you accept your offer to return before you went to clerk, or was it an open offer or a wait and see thing?

unless you're really unhappy with the firm you've summered at or don't get an offer (or it's your judge's policy), I don't see why you wouldn't accept an offer from a firm before starting your clerkship.

119 - Do the clerkship. If a firm is going to revoke your offer to join it after you finish clerking, they are probably willing to fire you after one year of working. Also, if you get a clerkship, try to convince your judge to let you accept an offer immediately. I was able to accept my offer on the condition that I not accept money... it may not be ideal, but it at least lets my firm know to expect me next fall.

122 - I'm heading to The Botts as well. Is the clerkship bonus really 50K or are you just trying to get my hopes up?

It could be smart longterm planning for Texas firms like BB, VE, FJ, etc to go to $50K and hire clerks away from NY and DC firms that are acting iffy on the clerkship bonus.

140: as a clerk who no longer has an offer, i would have accepted my offer if my judge had let me. there may be some clerks who wanted to re-interview after their clerkship (obviously not realizing that the economy would be so horrible) but i think most of us were prevented from accepting our offer in the first place. even if i had accepted my offer, i'm not sure it would have made a difference--the firm could always still tell me that they didn't have room for me. a clerk who has accepted their offer is in a somewhat stronger position, but the firm can always take that job away in a second if it feels the need.

130--

What downsides are you thinking of?

Baker Botts went to $50K this past year or the year before. I have one friend who's already been paid that. I'm not sure what the other TX firms are doing.

43 - I was told by my firm (NY) that my clerkship bonus is "under review." In any event, they at least confirmed that I would still be starting as an associate this fall, albeit as a first year, and not as a second year.

I keep telling myself, "at least you still have your job," but it's hard to lose $50,000. But, if the firm can keep another associate on, as opposed to my getting the bonus, I'd pick the associate any day.

That's not to say that I haven't enjoyed my clerkship, but it's now put me in a more difficult financial position...

i dont understand the moving a corp or lit associate to a BK dept. A federal BK clerk that has 2 yrs exp. doing strictly BK work is 1) more efficient 2) much cheaper (esp. w/o clksp boni) than a 4-5 corp attorney.

I call BS on this, my friend's friend had this happen to him, trend.

I know for a fact that Wiley Rein and Bryan Cave have rescinded offers to current U.S. Circuit clerks.

I know for a fact that Wiley Rein and Bryan Cave rescinded offers to current U.S. Circuit court clerks. Clerks beware.

I know for a fact that Wiley Rein and Bryan Cave rescinded offers to current U.S. Circuit court clerks. Clerks beware.

Any word on Wiley Rein or Brian Cave rescinding offers? District courts only, or CA as well?

Real situation: I have an offer with a firm that is as economically stable as any. Interviewed with two district judges in the fall, didn't get an offer from either. Had happily accepted the prospect of heading to my firm in the fall as a litigation associate. Without going into details, an opportunity has come up, unsolicited, for me to have the exact clerkship I wanted. I like my firm and intend on returning after the clerkship. I really want to clerk, but I'm worried that the state of the economy weighs against it. I don't want to risk losing the job. What would you do?

Firms purportedly screwing clerks:

Latham
Kirkland
MoFo
Wiley Rein
Bryan Cave
K&L Gates
Quinn

Others?

152,

I say clerk. But, hey, I'm biased.

-current clerk

Bryan Cave and Wiley Rein both laid of COA clerks. Possibly district clerks too, but I know of at least two COA clerks who had their offers rescinded recently.

I would imagine any firm hurting bad enough to rescind offers to COA clerks would do the same to DC clerks as well.

Currently 3L here, about to start a one year district court clerkship in the fall. How much does having a district court clerkship help in getting a COA clerkship?

156: it helps a lot with some judges, especially in the same circuit. Apply early and add your district court clerkship to your resume even though you haven't started yet. Good luck!

To anyone else reading this thread...clerking is fun and rewarding (although it can sometimes be a bit of a grind, but thankfully its work that stresses you rather than boredom). If your sole career goal involves working at a large law firm, it may not be worth it, but if you think you may want to become a prosecutor, professor, public interest lawyer, etc., the experience and mentoring is invaluable.

152,

You may not have to make a choice. Ask your judge if you can come the following year. He'll understand, given the current economy. It's not cheeky under these circumstances.

-Also a current clerk

District Court clerk here. Worked for a couple of years at my firm (was at the DC office - NY v10) before going to clerk with the assumption that I could come back. I have been told that all hiring is frozen and I have thus far not had luck with any other offices including the mother ship in NY. I know of one COA clerk junior to me that was allowed to come back after his year.

Unfortunately my job search has not been as lucky since my offer was closed. Still hoping to find something. Be careful about taking clerkships later on.

Second Circuit clerk here. One previous clerkship. I've sent out about 50 applications to firms and government. I've received about 15 rejections and no interviews so far. Getting pretty desperate.

I'm a Federal District Law Clerk. I interviewed with two firms recently. Both firms told me that they don't know whether we will need associates when my clerkship is over, and to check back with them when the clerkship is over. The firm I summered with told me the same. None are offering clerkship bonuses and one even said they would not give me a one year associate credit for working as a law clerk.

Tough market. Time to hang out the shingle and get to work.

83 and 161 - Are you in New York?

161, which firms said no to the clerkship bonus?

It's not impossible to state a promissory estoppel claim based on a rescinded offer of at-will employment, at least in some jurisdictions, if you can prove reliance damages. See, e.g., Goff-Hamel v. Obstetricians and Gynecologists, P.C., 256 Neb. 19, 588 N.W.2d 798 (1999) (collecting cases).

Some of you might considering doing the research before unleashing the condescension. Any good judicial clerk would have learned that, anyway.

It's not impossible to state a promissory estoppel claim based on a rescinded offer of at-will employment, at least in some jurisdictions, if you can prove reliance damages. See, e.g., Goff-Hamel v. Obstetricians and Gynecologists, P.C., 256 Neb. 19, 588 N.W.2d 798 (1999) (collecting cases).

Some of you might considering doing the research before unleashing the condescension. Any good judicial clerk would have learned that, anyway.

145: BB's website says it pays a clerkship bonus for 2009 of 35k. I call BS on your source.

145: BB's website says it pays a clerkship bonus for 2009 of 35k. I call BS on your source.

166/67 - my mistake on the amount. But he has been paid the full amount regardless (which was my point), so it looks like Baker Botts has not cut the amount. -145

Notice that all the people saying NOT to clerk are still (1) HOPING that their offers are won't be rescinded, and (2) HOPING that they won't be laid-off shortly thereafter. Assuming one of the latter does happen, who will be in the better job position - the clerk or the newly-unemployed associate? i.e. even if clerks are having a tough time, it is even worse for newly laid-off associates.

What about the actual CLERKSHIP offers getting rescinded? One acquaintance's offer to go to a state supreme court was rescinded because of budget concerns. On top of that, the firm now won't let the would-be clerk start with the rest of the class.

Holland & Knight rescinded the offer of a clerk who is a friend of mine who had accepted the offer at H&K. So, H&K has no "the clerk did not accept because of the judge excuse."