ATL March Madness for Law Firms, Round 2 (Part 2): The Sweet Sixteen
Tonight, the “real” Sweet Sixteen games will play out on NCAA courts. Here at ATL, the NCAA-styled ATL March Madness for Law Firms continues. Sixteen firms remain in the tournament hoping to be crowned Biglaw’s safest — the place where you’re least likely to get laid off.
Thirty-two firms entered the tournament, based on Vault prestige rankings. Thousands of ATL readers voted to eliminate sixteen firms in the first round. There was only one upset of a higher-ranked seed: Linklaters (V26) beat Latham (V7). The Magic Circle firm’s magic run may not last though. Kirkland has a solid lead over the UK-based firm at the moment.
Will there be more upsets in the Sweet Sixteen? Over 4,000 votes are in since voting started on Tuesday and two of the contests are nail-biters: Skadden vs Paul Weiss and Davis Polk vs Debevoise.
Check out the brackets and vote on the next four match-ups, after the jump.
Voting on the bracket’s Big Left started on Tuesday. Here are the match-ups of firms on our brackets’ right side. Polls close on Sunday at midnight.
Earlier: ATL March Madness for Law Firms, Round 2 (Part 1)
ATL March Madness for Law Firms, Round 1: Which Biglaw Firm is Safest? — Part 1 and Part 2
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According to AmLaw (http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1202427137779) change in revenues for these firms:
Cleary +8%
Sidley +7.5%
Weil +4.8%
Sullivan 0% (also -8% in per lawyer)
Cravath -13% (also -18.2% in per lawyer)
Simpson, Covington & W & C aren't in yet.
I would say the safe firm list looks like:
Weil (really strong bankruptcy work)
W & C (litigation heavy weight, and the it firm in D.C.)
Simpson (a lot of corporate work, but also strong litigation practice)
Cleary (mostly known for corporate and some antitrust work)
Sidley (mostly corporate & banking)
Sullivan (overly reliant on corporate)
Cravath (as you can see, the work is drying up)
Covington (what do they do well besides insurance?)
yawn.
are you still doing this?
I can't help but notice that there was only one upset. This sort of calls into question the validity of this exercise, and suggests that yet more fear mongering is at its heart. Then again, there was a lot of chalk in the NCAAs this year too.
Perhaps still first?
The Dow is up again today. The recession is over. All of these firms are safe. Everyone is a winner!
This is a stupid and unfunny feature.
Hey, it's been almost two weeks since ATL pushed an unsubstantiated, unfulfilled rumor about Kirkland... has there been a stealth layoff involving Kash?
Yawn.
Can we really call it an upset when Cravath, Simpson, Sullivan and Cleary lose? They are the top corporate firms. Of course they are going to hurt more during a recession, the same way they make more when M&A is booming.
Weil will hire anyone with a pulse from a T14 as long as they are douchey enough.
Everyone who knows anything about the legal market knows that W&C are as safe as they ever were. Litigation powerhouses in DC are almost completely immune to such an economic crisis.
7 - yeah Cleary is really hurting with the highest increase in revenue of the AmLaw 100 firms
6 - note the byline on the post.
Unless Elie is pretending to be her - better check for ridiculous typos.
More inanity on the part of ATL. Report REAL legal news like the WSJ Law blog does instead of fluff posts that rehash worthless Vault rankings.
Agree with #4. Stick a fork in this competition, it's done.
Damn law students voting according to Vault. How can you justify S&C beating W&C?
There needs to be a story done on why everyone who works at or who has ever worked at Kirkland Chicago has contracted AIDS. Please look into this.
Yeah, anyone who votes S&C over W&C should be punched in their mud maker.
Wachtell is fine if you're not a first year - 65% gone in the first 6 months.
This "tournament" might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Is this website trying to lose credability (assuming it even has some now)?
This is just about the dumbest thing yet on ATL.
The AIDS jokes, both Kirkland-oriented and otherwise, are fantastic. Makes it feel like it's 1993 again.
36% of you picked Cleary over Weil?!?!?!?! EPIC LOL. Do you know anything about these firms?
Dow is up; Wachtell first years are down - 65%!
@14 - Not all law students are idiots when it comes to the legal market. Some of us actually understand where the work comes from. Unfortunately, Kash doesn't seem to have learned it yet; not surprising given that she was never a lawyer.
14 -- the only way s&c can win over w&c is if rodge cohen is sitting in his office voting over and over for s&c. hell, even rodge would probably vote for w&c!
1: Hilarious.
Anyone who uses the word EPIC in a comment is most likely a socially awkward naive law student who spends most of his day on the internet and doesn't know anything about the real world.
@8 - and they get to keep their jobs while you're unemployed
EPIC layoffs at Wachtell? 65% fewer first years than 6 months ago.
Debevoise and Paul Weiss are the ones to look at. The question is whether or not people will blindly vote according to Vault rankings or whether they will look at the revenue figures.
Paul, Weiss has one of the highest PPP (last year there was an increase of more than 6%, more than triple that of Skadden), and it was absolutely larger than Skadden's.
What's interesting is whether or not Skadden is going to do about the deflation of its corporate work - since it paid out full bonuses my guess is that they are going to lay off associates.
1 -- good analysis. yeah, i'm not sure what in the hell covington does. they pride themselves on hiring a lot of ex top "prestigious" gov't officials as partners. the funny thing is, none of these guys are gonna be aggressive rainmakers -- they just wanna sit on their ass and collect a decent paycheck. those days are OVER, though covington doesn't seem to realize it yet.
if i were one of the few rainmakers at covington, i'd be LIVID that michael chertoff and others get to sit on their ass and collect 400k off of my hustle and sweat.
Debevoise and Paul Weiss are the ones to look at. The question is whether or not people will blindly vote according to Vault rankings or whether they will look at the revenue figures.
Paul, Weiss has one of the highest PPP (last year there was an increase of more than 6%, more than triple that of Skadden), and it was absolutely larger than Skadden's.
What's interesting is whether or not Skadden is going to do about the deflation of its corporate work - since it paid out full bonuses my guess is that they are going to lay off associates.
How many 3500 sq. ft. wives can you fit in the offices of the Wachtell 65%?
does anyone actually know what is going on at Wachtell and why so many first years' names were on the website and are not there anymore?
30- when did cov reject you?
skadden started layoffs yesterday and continuing through today and tomorrow.. mainly support staff.
skadden started layoffs yesterday and continuing through today and tomorrow.. mainly support staff.
skadden started layoffs yesterday and continuing through today and tomorrow.. mainly support staff.
skadden started layoffs yesterday and continuing through today and tomorrow.. mainly support staff.
skadden started layoffs yesterday and continuing through today and tomorrow.. mainly support staff.
skadden started layoffs yesterday and continuing through today and tomorrow.. mainly support staff.
skadden started layoffs yesterday and continuing through today and tomorrow.. mainly support staff.
skadden started layoffs yesterday and continuing through today and tomorrow.. mainly support staff.
skadden started layoffs yesterday and continuing through today and tomorrow.. mainly support staff.
Wachtell's website only lists 7 2008 graduates. Interesting. Very very interesting.
skadden started layoffs yesterday and continuing through today and tomorrow.. mainly support staff.
skadden started layoffs yesterday and continuing through today and tomorrow.. mainly support staff.
"Wachtell's website only lists 7 2008 graduates. Interesting. Very very interesting."
Couldn't it be that they just haven't been listed yet?
The bios of some of my classmates who started at Wachtell in September are definitely down. There is absolutely no reason for a first year to leave any firm voluntarily. NALP has it that 17 JDs started there this fall. Only 6 of those JDs remain. Very suspicious.
47 - the bios have been removed. Cached versions remain. First years don't get fired for performance reasons and it's hard to imagine that 65% left voluntarily after only 6 months. The people who get hired at Wachtell aren't slackers and know what they are getting into.
I am absolutely certain of two people who were listed before and are not listed now. I have no idea why this is.
Has Skadden started layoffs yet?
Is it mostly staff?
"47 - the bios have been removed."
Thanks for the clarification. I have friends who are working at firms where they haven't been listed on the website yet, so I was wondering if that might be it.
don't you think that the people laid off from wachtell would tell someone or report it to atl?? that would be huge news. or maybe wachtell offered them like 200k to shut up.
Go to google and search: wlrk "j.d. 2008"
Several of the associates listed on the first page of hits are there in the cache but not on the current site.
If 40 first years out of a class of 90 are cut, I'd expect ATL to find out. But ten or so out of a class of 16? I think it's very unlikely that would reach ATL, because severance no doubt hinges on being quiet, and if you tell all and are one of just ten let go, it's much more likely you'll be found out.
These first years are probably just keeping quiet and hoping that the fact they were hired by Wachtell will carry some weight in their current job searches.
24 is absolutely right, except cohen has probably also instructed every s&c junior associate to do the same.
my god, wachtell doesn't screw around. why lay off TEN people???? either they have no pride, or they must seriously be hurting.
if wachtell is laying off, you BETTER BELIEVE that freakin s&c (the king of m&a in the land of no m&a), cravath (with their 160 summers), and dpw (the ipo shop with no ipos in 8 months) are too!
W&C over S&C?? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
Law student here with a random question....in a perfect economy, how would rank these practice areas in terms of (a) quality of work experience you will obtain in these practice areas, (b) future careeer opportunities there practice areas provide, and (c) quality of work in terms of how interesting the work can be.....the candidates are:
1. Insurance defense
2. Debt collection
3. Real estate
I'm scared.
- V10 2L
54 is right, after the first six or so Google hits, I found at least two former first years who are no longer listed.
32...
Seems those Wachtell disappearances were all "Not Yet Admitted to Practice" according to the cache resumes. Maybe Wachtell just removed them until they are admitted (which most firms do, by the way).
Wow,
Nice work 54 and others. There is definitely something rotten in the state of Denmark (and/or Wachtell).
I won't name names here but I found at least 5 gone. All are (were?) corporate.
58 -- are you being sarcastic? w&c is clearly over s&c (in terms of safety and most everything else, save corporate).
So Kirkland lied to me when they said that AIDS was prestigious and not to worry and that all my friends at other firms would be jealous?
30, Cov's biggest DC practice is regulatory work, which -- as you might imagine -- is a booming business right now and will continue to be so for quite some time given the measures being taken by the new administration.
Also a top-notch IP lit practice -- which is another relatively strong sector (and has been for a while).
Cov's profits were up 10% for 2008. Associates were told recently that no layoffs are anticipated. Salaries have not been frozen (and actually went up all the way back in October -- new raises coming in 6 months). And the firm just has a very old school collegial culture that is far less money-driven than most of its peer firms -- partners are willing to take a hit and layoffs are viewed as something the firm just doesn't do. Could that change if the economy continues to decline for another year -- of course. But for now I think it's one of the safest places for an associate to be.
63,
I thought about that. But do you think that over half of the class at Wachtell would have failed to pass the bar exam? That seems a bit much knowing the folks that go there.
Maybe Wachtell canned all the people that didn't pass? But then it just happened that most all of them were in corporate?
63-- there is an attorney still listed who still says "not yet admitted to practice". also, NY admissions ceremonies for July 2008 bar exam already took place in January, and there was one in February, and in March...
People don't go to DC to make money.
69 - yes, i've just seen that one attorney is still up there and not admitted. That's weird, I can't believe they'd fire so many first years.
Don't they have secondment programs or something (other firms, clients, etc.)? I know for a fact that they have secondment arrangements with Darois Villey in France, probably the most prestigious firm there. Maybe they sent a few 1st years during the crisis? Seems such a huge proportion.
Did Wachtell maybe remove people who haven't been admitted yet? I know Weil did that.
67 = Cov Recruiter trying to save face.
73 -
Also trying to save a sinking ship.
LAT -- how are you not doing a post about scandal at your former firm??
Serious question. Skadden is laying off people in the New York office but nobody (including ATL) is covering it. It's not exactly a secret. Instead we're dicking around with this bullshit.
Skadden partners are still ballistic about the bonus.
Also, anyone who believes the published rev/ppp numbers for law firms this year is delusional. Some firms do a combination of cash/accrual (whatever method maximizes the bottom line) and some even exclude bonus payments from the ppp calculations. How about a story on that?! I'm talking to you Simpson, Davis, Skadden, for sure Cadwalader and even PW. Supoosedly very few firms do it on the up and up -- maybe WLRK, Cravath and Sullivan. A lot of firms just make it up.
How about some calls on that and Skadden layoffs?
74, they haven't laid anyone off or frozen salaries. Most firms can't say that.
There is no schedule for admittance to the NY bar you have to get all your materials in, and some people might have hold ups on affidavits if they worked internationally
There is no schedule for admittance to the NY bar you have to get all your materials in, and some people might have hold ups on affidavits if they worked internationally
72 - ten wachtell first years failed the bar? i doubt it...
80 why is that so absurd? Being Law Review at Y, H, or Col does not mean you take tests well? Well, other than the LSAT and class exams...
Yeah, being intelligible, hard-working, knowledgeable about law, good at taking multiple choice tests and good at taking law exams involving essays about the law doesn't help you take the bar.
21: Do you know anything about either firm, other than the fact that Weil has a strong bankruptcy practice?
Over 40% of Cleary's lawyers are outside the US. Furthermore, it doesn't have any IP lawyers in California--which has been devasted by the credit crunch--and it has a large DC antitrust/financial regulatory office, which are strong practice areas now.
Weil has a large bankruptcy group--but that accounts for only about 10% of the partnership. What exactly are all those private equity guys doing right about now?
1 is a fool. First of all, Cravath's PPP is still higher than all those other firms despite dropping a lot. the work at Cravath is most certainly NOT drying up. 4th quarter was a dead quarter of hell, but the work is back. Everyone is busy. Litigation never slowed... M&A is firing up with Goldman Sachs and IBM. Cravath is the safest firm of the whol bunch, and not just because of PPP, it is because it is a ridiculously highly esteemed firm, and wants to stay that way,
Wachtell rumors are correct. Many bios missing from the website, but cached.
54/72 - all the WLRK 1st years whose profiles no longer come up are also "Not yet admitted" status. could be that the firm put up the profiles and then removed them, pending admission to NY bar, which is what some firms have done. if that is the case, 1st years who are slow with paperwork despite passing the bar will not show up on the website. check to see if the 1st year numbers INCREASE in the coming weeks/months.
67 -- this article discusses just how "safe" covington is.
having a low-margin, sleepy regulatory practice does NOT equal "safety." if this were the criteria for safety and success, GM would be "safe" as hell. perhaps cov would be safe with its business model if it paid its associates $110k per year, but it doesn't. it makes the #1 mistake that corporations make: they execute strategy A, but pay their people and create an infrastructure as if they're pursuing strategy B. This is why Walmart doesn't pay their jewelry sales people like Tiffany.
http://www.law.northwestern.edu/career/markettrends/2007/n6n3tnr5.pdf
87- You're kidding, right? That 2007 article is based on the premise that a financially healthy firm is one with high leverage. It cites Latham as a model.
21, Since neither firm has done any of the tell-tale moves signaling the potential for layoffs, I admit that this is not an obvious pick. However, just because Weil has a strong bankruptcy practice that would presumably provide counter-cyclical work (presumably the reason you picked them) doesn't mean that anyone who voted for Cleary "doesn't know anything about these firms." Here's why I picked Cleary over Weil:
(1) Leverage
Weil has leverage of 5.79 while Cleary has (still not very good) leverage of 4.83. Of the fifty law firms that grossed the most in 2008, the only other firms with leverage ratios above 5 are (sorted by RPL): Kirkland (5.48), Paul Weiss (5.49), Paul Hastings (5.42), Cadwalader (8.49), Dechert (5.66), Bingham (5.94), Orrick (6.26), King & Spaulding (5.64), Greenburg Traurig (5.74), White & Case (6.63), Kirkpatrick Lockhart (5.08) and Holland & Knight (5.27). Not the most confidence inspiring group to be part of when considering layoff probability. Weil's leverage is only lower than CWT, W&C, Bingham, and GT.
(2) Location of domestic offices
Cleary's domestic offices are in New York and Washington D.C.
Weil's domestic offices are in Austin, Boston, Dallas, Houston, Miami, New York, Providence, Silicon Valley, Washington D.C., and Wilmington.
Job security is all about where the profitable work is located. Weil's lawyers in low-profit cities are at risk during a downturn. (I would say the same about Weil's lawyers in international offices with small capital markets like Warsaw, Prague, Munich, and Budapest. Cleary, on the other hand, has a much more focused international practice.)
(3) 2008 PPP and RPL figures --
Cleary showed more improvement in both metrics for 2008 than Weil. Also note that Weil's PPP was largely driven by a decline in their number of equity partners, while Cleary's even-larger PPP increase came despite expanding equity partner ranks in 2008. Weil's RPL fell 2% while Cleary's stayed virtually unchanged. (Admittedly, Weil's RPL ($1.06M) is still slightly above Cleary's ($979K), which is a clear point in its favor.)
(4) 2009 Summer classes
According to NALP, Weil is going to have 5.9% fewer summer associates in 2009 than 2008, including drastic reductions in certain offices (Dallas -23.8%, Houston -75.0%), while Cleary's summer class is 10.2% larger, with increases in all offices. I read this data to suggest that Weil is feeling more of a work slowdown that Cleary.
(5) Recent news
Cleary substantially expanded its downtown footprint last year while Weil decided to move a portion of its operations from midtown to Brooklyn. (Depending on how much they anticipated the current environment when they made these decisions, I admit that this could go either way.) Finally, two weeks ago, Weil also canceled NY summer program opportunities for UK lawyers the year after the program was launched. While neither piece of news means much, it is at least some evidence that Weil is more openly looking to cut costs.
So, that's what I considered when opting (after some debate) for Cleary. Why did you think that Weil was such an obvious choice?
86,
Then why is there one first year still up that is also pending admission?
87,
Great article! To do well in this economy, all firms should build huge corporate/transactional practices!
(Did you check the date on the article before linking to it??)
87, I'm sure it's better to be in the "juiced-up M&A outfits in New York or the tech savvy shops of Silicon Valley, D.C." as mentioned in the article.
@84 - Are you out of your mind? Cravath's PPP dropped farther than revenues (24%). http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2009/02/cravath-profits-falls-24-percent.html. Those houses in the hamptons don't pay for themselves.
88 -- first off, that's not THE premise of the article. the main premise is that covington can no longer rest on its laurels and expect to have its DC market protected. aggressive, super-global firms who actually have RAINMAKERS (as opposed to ex-govt trophy laterals that sit around all day and give speeches to the DC bar and expect the business to come to them just b/c they sat next to bush or clinton for a year) are gonna eat cov's lunch.
second, everyone thinks that regulatory is gonna be so huge and that cov is somehow best situated to get all of the business. it's not. it still has to compete with h&h, wilmer, not to mention skadden and other wall street firms with strong financial regulatory practices and DC presence.
94-
That cov rejection really stung, huh?
Is leverage defined as non-partners (associates and counsel) / partners or is it all attorneys / partners? The former makes more sense.
94,
The out-of-town firms that tried to move in on DC (Latham, Orrick, etc.) have had MASSIVE layoffs. Haven't heard a peep about any problems at Covington. So the article's prediction never really materialized, did it? I don't think any firms are fearing Latham these days.
Since no one else has said it, I'd like to point out that the blatant STB trolling in comment 1 is nothing short of embarrassing.
91 -- yeah, i guess if you were a managing a partner, you'd structure your firm under the assumption that the only legal work that will ever happen again is transportation regulatory.
granted, cov is the bomb for a few months until we pull out of the recession and m&a, etc comes roaring back, just like suzuki is the bomb compared to ferrari during a recession.
in any case, my point was that if a major trade publication writes an article predicting your demise and your obsolescence, that's probably a good sign that you're not that "safe."
99-Because "major trade publications" are very accurate in their market predictions. I'll search the archives for their predictions of the massive cuts at corporate firms.
If anything, that article affirmed the long-term strategy of cov and a&p.
"my point was that if a major trade publication writes an article predicting your demise and your obsolescence, that's probably a good sign that you're not that 'safe.'"
Noted.
Are you a 2L by any chance? You sound like a law student.
97 -- you can tell that you're a law student. most firms ARE indeed fearing the hell out of latham. that's b/c they shed their leverage and will therefore preserve/increase PPP. i know this is hard for a lawyer to understand, but partners actually care about MONEY. it's a business, not an ATL popularity contest. you may think that cov partners are somehow insulated from human nature and don't have bills to pay, but they care about money like anyone else (at least the top rainmakers do). or do you think they just "love the law"?
and when a firm like latham poaches cov's top rainmakers (b/c they have higher ppp b/c they were less worried about some bs reputation on ATL), we'll see how things go for cov -- at least they'll have chertoff who i'm sure is eager to hustle his ass off to bring in tons of business.
"97 -- you can tell that you're a law student"
And "you can tell" that you're an amazing writer.
"97 -- you can tell that you're a law student. most firms ARE indeed fearing the hell out of latham. that's b/c they shed their leverage and will therefore preserve/increase PPP. i know this is hard for a lawyer to understand, but partners actually care about MONEY. it's a business, not an ATL popularity contest. you may think that cov partners are somehow insulated from human nature and don't have bills to pay, but they care about money like anyone else (at least the top rainmakers do). or do you think they just "love the law"?
and when a firm like latham poaches cov's top rainmakers (b/c they have higher ppp b/c they were less worried about some bs reputation on ATL), we'll see how things go for cov -- at least they'll have chertoff who i'm sure is eager to hustle his ass off to bring in tons of business. "
You forgot to end your post by slamming the door behind you.
103 -- educate me about my writing deficiencies.
PW to 190K.
86's story is in fact correct. Wachtell took down bios of first years who are not yet admitted. Even though they passed the exam, they haven't yet submitted affidavits for character and fitness. Apparently Wachtell found out or came to the belief that it should no longer list not yet admitted attorneys on the website. The one attorney who is listed on the website as not admitted is an LLM, foreign attorney, and different rules apply. No layoff story here.
All your firms are belong to Weil!
Williams & Connolly is in far better shape than Sullivan.
W&C's focus on litigation and location in DC provides them with a double-insulation from the recession.
Plus they have been more selective in hiring and have maintained the D.C. office at just over 200 attorneys instead of overextending themselves into Bratislava or North Carolnia (even worse) like other firms.
Williams & Connolly is in far better shape than Sullivan.
W&C's focus on litigation and location in DC provides them with a double-insulation from the recession.
Plus they have been more selective in hiring and have maintained the D.C. office at just over 200 attorneys instead of overextending themselves into Bratislava or North Carolnia (even worse) like other firms.
You would think that last-minute votes would reflect that Weil is pushing back start dates, and Cleary is not.
Hell, WGM is trying to push back start dates to 2011! And they're shortening the summer program. And they're threatening layoffs.
Weil would be losing already if there were some way of changing votes. (There should be.)
People can vote through Sunday.
--Elie
Agree with 110.
Sullivan & Cromwell is a NYC-centered firm with offices flung around the world (read: less profitable) that makes much of its money off transactional work -- especially for its longtime client Goldman Sachs, which has gotten so hammered recently that is no longer even an investment bank any more.
Williams & Connolly is a DC firm -- with one office -- almost exclusively dedicated to litigation, especially "crisis" litigation, i.e., stuff that's happening right now.
That half of this survey's respondents think associates at S&C are "safer" than at W&C exposes how ridiculous this survey is or how uninformed its respondents are.
Or, to put it another way, the clients who did deals S&C advised on five years ago are now being represented by W&C in lawsuits.
Weil purposefully waited until after they had built a significant lead here before the dropped the 2011 bomb on 3Ls.
Anyone who voted Weil over Cleary is retarded, anyone who made fun of people voting for Cleary should be eliminated from the gene pool, and now there's the evidence to prove it.
Summer program cut to 10 weeks. Deferrals for current 3Ls.
Thanks Elie @ 113. But the point is that you should make it possible to CHANGE votes already placed through Sunday. I'm sure more than half (perhaps all) of the respondents that voted for Weil would like to change their votes given today's news.
Yeah, this page will get buried after today and no one else will vote. I'd bet 90% of voting already took place.
HAHAHAHA. You Ivy Leaguers created this mess. Now, you're all paying the price. I figured you guys were bright enough to run the world. I guess not. All you guys do is bill your clients for pointless work. Well, The billable-hour era is coming to an end. Biglaw is actually going to have to produce results. Imagine that!!! You guys are actually going to be judged by your work-product.
Let ATL readers vote once per day. That way, you mitigate the chance of another Weil debacle.
Interestingly, Weil is the only one of the sweet sixteen that had negative movement in its partnership ranks (4%). By reference, Latham had 2% loss.
There are only five firms in the sweet sixteen who have had positive changes between 08 and 09 in gross revenue, number of partners, and PPP. Here they are ranked by total profits:
Kirkland
Gibson
Cleary
Debevoise
Paul W
Re 122 - That doesn't include Covington, Simpson, Linklaters, or WillConn, because they aren't up on AmLaw.
Three firms in the entire bracket with no gains in gross revenues, partners, or PPP. here they are ranked by total profits:
Cravath
Latham
Shearman & Sterling
This whole bracket thing is retarded.
Never mind the whole Weil debacle. Sullivan & Cromwell is the consummate NY M&A shop, which has been hit hard (like all other M&A practices) in the economic crisis, and it has a leverage of over 3.5 associates per partner.
Williams & Connolly is an almost entirely litigation firm with strengths in regulatory and white collar crime. It has a nearly 1 to 1 leverage ratio.
How these two firms can be considered equally safe is beyond me.
What a boring bracket. No upsets.
What a boring bracket. No upsets.
Isn't "March Madness" a trademarked phrase?
Isn't "March Madness" a trademarked phrase?
104 - If you're theory is correct, then why hasn't a "firm like Latham" already "poached" C&B's rainmakers?
104 - If your theory is correct, then why hasn't a "firm like Latham" already "poached" C&B's rainmakers?
130 -- great logic: if something has happened, that's evidence that it won't happen. it's midnight -- since the sun isn't out, it probably won't ever come out.
125 -- it's obvious that there are a lot of s&c dorks on here who are trying to inflate their firm's worth. denial is an awful thing. w&c is too secure to give a damn -- hence why they don't hand out bonsai trees and cookies and crap.
The poll being open until Sunday doesn't help if most people who are going to vote voted already.
"130 -- great logic: if something has happened, that's evidence that it won't happen. it's midnight -- since the sun isn't out, it probably won't ever come out."
Not really the same thing since one can say that the sun has come out in the past. Think your analogies through a little more before you post.
-Not 130
cleary is better positioned than weil. im at weil and y'all are nuts if you think cleary is more vulnerable than we are.
corporate is slow and litigation sure aint busy. bankruptcy cant carry an entire, huge, overpaid firm.
Has anyone noticed that this bracket is wrong for the next round? If all the favorites win, the 1 seed should face the 8, not the 5. 2 should face 7, not 6. 3 should face 6 and 4 against 5.
Has anyone noticed that this bracket is wrong for the next round? If all the favorites win, the 1 seed should face the 8, not the 5. 2 should face 7, not 6. 3 should face 6 and 4 against 5.
The fact that Weil is still leading Cleary on this poll just proves that 90% of the voting went in before Weil's announcements yesterday. This bracket, if it ever was going to be accurate, has completely lost credibility now.
132 - If something has never happened (or rarely happens), that is probative of the likelihood that it will happen in the future. For example, you have offered at least one stupid comment on this blog. This increases the probability that your next comment will also be stupid.
Is it true that if you work for Cravath 5 -8years and then leave for W&C you are a partner?????