Wow. Incoming 3Ls and summer associates are totally f*cked. Good luck to all.

I wonder if other firms will follow suit. This sucks.

Save us Jebus!

Just ugly!!!!!

Morgan Lewis to 2Ls: you are fucked, go fuck yourselves.

I'm sure those organizations are so psyched to get bombarded with resumes from people without any sincere interest in doing public interest work who see the job as a consolation prize.

Shit.

It seems kind of unfair that the students who have a legitimate interest in doing public interest work will now have to compete for these jobs with a bunch of kids who have great credentials but are only interested in doing the work so they can get their MLB stipend and will only stay until their MLB job is available.

Also, the MLB folks will not be bothered by the low salaries, which may cause the public interest places to pay even less, which would screw the people who are legitimately interested in that kind of work.

I hear Morgan's also offering to partially subsidize a one-year LLM program at Penn State-Philly for their formerly-incoming Philly first years. Any confirmation?

All top 50 law schools should organize such that students will no accept non-binding employment offers. The firms have too much ability to screw thier employees.

All top 50 law schools should organize such that students will no accept non-binding employment offers. The firms have too much ability to screw thier employees.

I guess all the Latham kids are feeling pretty good right now

Are you supposed to get a paying position in a public interest position and keep that salary in addition to the MLB stipend? Or can you volunteer pro bono and just depend on the MLB stipend?

all these gimmicks with start deferral and PI stipends just go to the obvious point that minimum associate salaries of 140-160k have a chokehold on firms' ability to withstand substantial losses in business. how about more posts on how regional firms with average 100-120k starting salaries and also non-amlaw200 firms are holding up.

Morgan Lewis to Indentured Servitude!

Dude - latham is awesome!

Once again, Latham pwns the competition

I wonder if someone can start tracking the effects of this on the public interest job market and the number of BigLaw in waiting baby lawyers that are hired.

I don't read that memo in the same way at all. I read it to say that all would-be first years will get a stipend, and will be allowed to work public interest jobs. Not that public interest employment is mandatory to receive a stipend.

In which case, I say sign me up. I'd gladly take $60K for a year to do nothing.

I don't read that memo in the same way at all. I read it to say that all would-be first years will get a stipend, and will be allowed to work public interest jobs. Not that public interest employment is mandatory to receive a stipend.

In which case, I say sign me up. I'd gladly take $60K for a year to do nothing.

As a Director of a Legal Services project I have a word of advice for you stipend seekers. Be prepared to kiss my ass, then I will reject you...maybe.

UGH. MORGAN = WORST FIRM TO DATE.

THIS IS LAWSUIT MATERIAL.

What a joke. Just give the stipend. Don't make these poor kids jump through public interest hoops to get it. Lame.

What a joke. Just give the stipend. Don't make these poor kids jump through public interest hoops to get it. Lame.

I expect this year's class of 1L's to be royally screwed come this fall. Won't some firms just have to bite the bullet and not hire for a year?

Latham back to V10!

Accepted at Skadden. Can't get rid of the feeling that you are all idiots.

DAAAAAAVE GORDOOOOON!!!

Actually, I read the offer to be that Morgan Lewis will arrange the public interest job for the would-be associates, and then pay them a healthy stipend.

9-

Like we would take them.. (oh, wait, we will.. We will just treat them like public interest lawyers, which is better than rejecting them. I may set up webcams to watch them all look for our non-existent coffee machine)

This is a terrible plan. Just give the stipend up front. I don't know why anyone would go to MLB in the future- even when they're screwing you over they still pull all the strings.

Is the Human Fund hiring?

28: Just remember, karma can be a bitch.

MLB- see you later. What does the firm care if the "lawyers" do public service work? Just give them the money.

to 31 - this is 9

I should hope that you would not take them!

Wow. 60K to do absolutely nothing. How awful. Memo to pampered big firm lawyers: no one in this world owes you a living. No one. Maybe you can take this opportunity to learn what a real lawyer does- go to court, take depositions, etc, rather than sit in your office and over-bill clients for things anyone off the street can do. Get over yourselves and learn your profession.

MLB- see you later. What does the firm care if the "lawyers" do public service work? Just give them the money.

why the contingency on public interest work? It's like Morgan never wants to hire a good student again.

Morgan- this is a garbage plan.

Dear Partners,

Please accept the fact that you won't make this year what you made last year. Sorry. No one else is either. Accept it, get over it, and stop gutting your firms.

Making the stipend dependant on public interest work is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

21 -- I agree with you. Elie, where is the clarity of your narrow interpretation of the MLB email coming from?

@39 -- so that deferrals, should they ever actually work at MLB, have more legal experience than just writing their lrw appellate briefs

They care about public interest because some incoming first years won't find a public interest job and MLB gets to picket their 60k

Will MLB provide health insurance coverage during the deferral year?

Elie, get some confirmation on whether the stipend is dependant on public interest work.

Actually, there is an infinite supply of public interest work. There just aren't an infinite number of jobs because nonprofit organizations have limited funding. Any sensible nonprofit would think creatively to make room for someone who is competent and able to work for FREE. There should be more than enough public interest jobs for any associate who tries hard enough to find one. You have a problem if you can't convince an organization with an overwhelming agenda (domestic violence, poverty, etc.) to hire you at zero cost to them.

wow. what an awful firm.

I'm not so sure this is as grim as it sounds. My wife is the exec of an ACLU chapter. Her chapter is feeling the squeeze like everyone else, as contributions are down. She has unfilled positions, and more work than her legal staff can do. She would be able to use several lawyers if someone else, such as MLB, was paying the salary. There are many other public interest groups who would also hire if someone else was paying the salary. Skadden already does this with its Skadden Fellows program. I am relatively certain that the public interest industry could absorb the deferred first years.

I doubt they care about the experience a deferred lawyer has- they just want to not pay the 60K.

MLB- your desire to not pay the stipend is apparent.

SEA LEVELS RISE

MOUNTAINS CRUMBLE

QUINN REMAINS

How much does it cost to set up a non-profit? A few first years should band together, start a non-profit, employ themselves to get their stipends, and try to accomplish something worthwhile in the meantime. Like a non-profit that sends volunteer tutors into inner-city schools or something.

How much does it cost to set up a non-profit? A few first years should band together, start a non-profit, employ themselves to get their stipends, and try to accomplish something worthwhile in the meantime. Like a non-profit that sends volunteer tutors into inner-city schools or something.

What a terrible firm. To all firms in Philadelphia- watch out for MLB as they plummet in the eyes of law students.

9 -

Public interest work is about serving the public interest. Who gives a shit who's doing it as long as the public is being served?

Will law schools offer public interest loan repayment to 3Ls forced into this "public interest year?"

I will hire at deferred MB first year to be my personal assistant as a 3L. My only hiring requirements are a scratchy beard and soft hands.

To all the students in the bottom 10% of unaccredited Drexel Law school- say hello to your future employer.

9- 57

what 57 said.

That said, it doesnt mean I cant laugh at them while they are here using our Windows 95 computers to read ATL and search for other biglaw jobs..

To all the students in the bottom 10% of unaccredited Drexel Law school- say hello to your future employer.

57: If I'm the public, I want a lawyer who is committed to my best interests, not some pissed-off securities- lawyer-to-be who is going through the motions simply to get a stipend and who will abandon the job as quickly as he or she can.

From a 3L going the public interest route -

It's been my experience that a lot of public interest firms won't hire you until you actually officially pass the bar. Since 3Ls won't hear until November, MLB is really screwing 3Ls if they're really requiring them to be doing public interest work by October if they are to get the stipend.

Long-time reader, first-time commenter:

"obviously not every associate will receive the $60,000 that is contemplated in this memo. The memo clearly states that the monthly stipend will be paid only to associates who secure work at a public interest organization"

The memo does NOT clearly state this, and thus it is NOT obvious that not every associate will receive it.

I read the word "each" to refer to all incoming first years, NOT all first years who take the public interest work.

"...will offer each affected individual...and will pay each..."

While the memo is poorly written (the ambiguity exists), this doesn't excuse your shooting from the hit posting.

Your reading comprehension is abosolutely awful. Really, really awful. You should be ashamed of yourself for posting this.

57 - is the public really served by a short-time first-year associate who has no experience and no interest in the long-term ramifications of any of the work they do? sure, if they can find a job that wouldn't exist otherwise, and somehow manage to help more than they hurt, that'd be great, but that's not my experience of how public interest or the law works for people right out of school.

Shame on Morgan!

33 nailed it. in fact, i think i might start a sister organization to the "Human Fund" and charge biglaw wannabes $2500 per month to take part in our internship program.

MLB- cheap assholes. Just give these people the stipend. You're already saving 100K plus health insurance costs.

Long-time reader, first-time commenter:

"obviously not every associate will receive the $60,000 that is contemplated in this memo. The memo clearly states that the monthly stipend will be paid only to associates who secure work at a public interest organization"

The memo does NOT clearly state this, and thus it is NOT obvious that not every associate will receive it.

I read the word "each" to refer to all incoming first years, NOT all first years who take the public interest work.

"...will offer each affected individual...and will pay each..."

While the memo is poorly written (the ambiguity exists), this doesn't excuse your shooting from the hit posting.

Your reading comprehension is abosolutely awful. Really, really awful. You should be ashamed of yourself for posting this.

Morgan partners, when will you change this offer too?

Your greed is awful. Professionals? Hardly!!!!

58- of course you're not going to qualify for LRAP. With the stipend, the deferred associates will be making 60k a year. Most LRAPs cut off at 49k a year.

14 - yeah, i assumed the public interest positions would be unpaid. seems ridiculous to take money from legit public interest orgs when you're already taking home more in a stipend than most entry level PI attys get. so, i dont understand the whole "gosh, it will be sooo hard for everyone to find a public interest job" thing - there is NO shortage of public interest groups who would happily take a free attorney for a year.

maybe i'm wrong - do these public interest jobs need to be paid??

Elie,
Unless you're not telling us something, I cannot see how you would construe the firm's statement to mean that the associate has to go secure public interest employment to qualify for the stipend. On the contrary, it appears that the firm will set up public interest, AND the firm will pay a stipend. Two independent clauses set off by a comma.

Either way, it still sucks for the 3Ls (and even moreso for the 2Ls, though I suppose they now have the forewarning to apply for clerkships and reinterview in the Fall).

56- I don't think the perceptions of a bunch of 3Ls are going to matter for a very, very long time. I am sure that is the least of MLB's concerns.

How cheap can you be Morgan? Hand over the stipend. Or are you trying to starve some future associates to death so they won't be around in Oct 2010?

64 and the rest of you idiots--

These people are working for free--meaning all the hoops that you jump through to secure a "paying" non-profit job are removed. It should not be that difficult to find something. It is basically 1L summer all over again.

MLB- just give the stipend.

Elie,
Get us the real scoop- stipend or stipend with strings attached?

You dont have to care to stand in a line for 3 hours at the clerks office or ride the train for 20 minutes to get to the clerks office. I have lawyers who care that have to do that now. I would love to have some entitled 3L+'s to do that for me until their biglaw life starts so my attorneys can do actual attorney things.
As 77 said, think of it as a 1L job that you have a big boy JD for.

Elie, I'm fairly sure that the people saying the stipend does not depend on doing public interest work are correct.

It sounds to me like MLB has arranged public interest opportunities for incoming associates and the firm will pay each associate $5K/ month on top of that, whether they take the public interest opportunity or not.

If that is in fact the meaning of the memo, you need to correct this post ASAP.

God hates 3Ls. Deservedly so. We are parasites, racists, misogynists (at least according to autoadmit), entitled d-bags with no saving grace beyond our rather eloquent expressions of self-loathing (this post aside of course).

White & Case bound (??) 3L

Shameful. Just shameful.

As someone IN public interest law -- hahahahaha.

Guess what? there are not a ton of public interest jobs going begging for these deferrals. Public interest organizations need someone who is going to stick around for more than a year. They have long term projects that need someone to see them through. They don't need Biglaws castoffs here for a year then gone. They don't need to waste finite resources creating a temporary job for those waiting to getting back to billing obscene amoutns of money. It's not just the salary, it's the computers, the desk space, health benefits, 401K benefits. Unless the firms who think this is a great idea are covering those too, forget it.

This proposal is just a way for the partners to not feel so bad about screwing over the kids to whom they lied. It really doesn't help the public interest organizations or the screwed over first years.

Oh and regarding LRAP -- get in line. We paid the same amount for our education that you did. If WE can't get LRAP, you can't for being poor for one freaking year.

Fuck you all. This is a great deal. Guaranteed $60k/yr pay for public interest work. Be less greedy.

This site has too much contempt for law students and lawyers. But the people who post on this site seem to deserve it.

The top law schools have been curiously silent on this situation. It's time again to review the 3rd year of law school and consider some kind of traineeship arrangement for the last year or cutting it altogether.
The marginal value of a 3rd year in law school is much closer to zero than $50K. This would go a long way toward helping control cost pressure in firms while still allowing quality competition for law students.

Morgan- kill yourself if the stipend depends on public service.

Morgan- kill yourself if the stipend depends on public interest.

This is all garbage about making the partners not feel so bad. MLB offers a stipend with unobtainable requirements and then doesn't have to part with dime one.

I know a couple peeps at Morgan Lewis' Philly office. How long will it take the firm to update the staff database on its web site so I can use attorney-search to verify whether or not they've been shit-canned?

"Quiet simply" haha

"Quiet simply" haha

What happened to the conjoined twins commenter from last week. Can we get more of that?? Best new thing on ATL since Frat Stud came on the scene.

Elie, public interest a requirement for the stipend or not?

Amen 37, getting paid something is a whole lot better than getting paid nothing.

Is it less than what they wanted? Sure, but one of the lessons of being an adult is that life is not fair and you don't always get what you want.

agree with 85

agree with 85

Fuck 85

I would love to be the hiring individual at a public interest firm right now. "Oh, so Morgan is making you wait a year to work there and NOW you want to do public interest law? F off, I'll hire someone who really wants to do this."

only desperate incoming associates will still choose MLB?

agree with 93. more. conjoined. twins. please...

This is like an Adam Sandler movie.

"If you don't help people for once in your miserable life, you will be one of those people, with $200K in nondischargable debt and no job.

Morgan- you try to be a big boy and you cheap out on the stipend (making it conditional)? Weak. You've punched above your weight for the last time.

Cheers to 99!

One of the unfortunate consequences of these layoff posts is that less of the comments are focused on making fun of Elie and his weight. Can we please fix that?

they should just hand over the stipend and stop being cheap about it. They're all ready saving tons of money.

Any guesses on the next V20 to do something similar?

Here's how I read it.

The point of saying "stipend for public legal interest work" is not to require 3Ls to secure public interest work before they are stipend eligible.

Rather, the incoming cannot get the stipend if they get a job for another private practice firm, a prestigious clerkship, or Best Buy manager position.

Elie, shame on you for either being sensationalist, a moron, or both.

I can't wait to see the other firms that do this shit all over MLB by just giving a stipend withou some being dependent on BS.

Elie, get that twinkie out of your face and clarify this.

totally heartless.

Hello everyone. I am a reporter for a medium-sized legal publication that is looking to write a story about conjoined twins that may be facing difficulties in the current legal market. Any leads would be greatly appreciated, so please reply. Thanks!

I'm already annoyed at the public interest brickbats here, and I can feel a PI versus firm lawyer flame fest coming on, but one must point out that it is pretty absurd to think a graduating law student can snap up a presumably paying public interest job. These are the jobs the students just lost to their classmates by pursing the MLB job, and students at top schools know the good PI jobs are much harder to get than a prestigous firm job. So its a little crass of the firm to suggest that their victims run to the longing embrace of some desperate NGO. They will be unemployed.

112- check out MLB. They screw you over twice. Perfect for conjoined twins!

113- right on. To think that these 3Ls will be able to qualify for the stipend by taking an "easy to get" public interest job is ridiculous. MLB is just trying to save money by not having to pay the stipend but still not look like total clowns.

I'm starting my own public interest firm for MLB associates. Pay me $10k and I'll give you the public interest "job" you need in order to get your stipend.

108 = dead on. Thanks for nothing, Mystal.

The memo doesn't conclusively say that current 2Ls will have to wait a full year before starting work. The memo just says 2011. If the economy turns around, it is not impossible for the start date to be pushed up to the first quarter of 2011. 5K a month for 3-5 months of working PI isn't the end of the world.

What many have failed to appreciate during this spike in firings is that the covenants in many law firm credit agreements contain attorney productivity requirements. So, if the average number of billable hours per attorney falls below a certain level, it causes a covenant default which must be cured in order to avoid the loan being called. Clearly the firms cannot increase productivity, so the only way to cure the default is to reduce the number of attorneys.

113,

These aren't going to be paying public interest jobs. Most big firms like morgan Lewis have great relationships with tons of public service organizations that they take pro-bono referals from or provide pro-bono services to. The firm will find it's deferred associates positions with these organizations (or work with the organizations to create programs that can take these deferred associates). The NGOs will happily oblige because they'll get a ton of free help from presumably smart first year associates and not have to pay for it. They'll also solidify their strong relationships with the firm.

What many have failed to appreciate during this spike in firings is that the covenants in many law firm credit agreements contain attorney productivity requirements. So, if the average number of billable hours per attorney falls below a certain level, it causes a covenant default which must be cured in order to avoid the loan being called. Clearly the firms cannot increase productivity, so the only way to cure the default is to reduce the number of attorneys.

I've obviously called the firm and asked for specific clarification. They have declined to respond. I specifically told them that my interpretation (and the interpretation of a lot of people) is that the stipend has strings as explained in the post. Again, no response. Make of that what you will.
--Elie

All these deferrals are really going to screw the Class of 2010.

at least they got jobs. my friend was laid off today from mlb's sf office. word is 165 people are being axed

121--On point.

Elie--ATL is a rag. Its not the WSJ. No inference can be drawn if a firm refuses to talk to you.

Elie, whenever you say "clearly" or "obviously" it means you're straining. If something was really that obvious, you wouldn't say it unless either you or your audience was an idiot.

Any word on how many layoffs in the SF Office.

65: "shooting from the hit"

YOU should be ashamed of yourself. Hopefully your first post will be your last as well. Douche.

Who are these "lots of other people," Elie? All I see here are people parroting your interpretation without giving it much thought themselves, or people that disagree with you after reading the provision themselves.

Uh, newsflash...MBL is hoping you suckas take the money and go public so they can say to you oct. 10 of '10, piss off, when you come groveling for your job. they will feel less guilty and can justify not hiring you then by saying, "Oh, why don't you just continue working at your $25k/year public interest job." Wake up, weeners. there's no such thing as a $60k 'free' lunch.

ATL is a rag. No better than the National Enquirer. Just trying to grab a headline with no concern for whether or not the facts have been substantiated.

How much does WereAllWhores charge for "PI jobs" anyways?

"All top 50 law schools should organize such that students will no accept non-binding employment offers. " ~~~ 11/12

------------------------------------------------------------------------

God, aren't they teaching you kids ANYTHING in law school today?

WTH would be a "binding employment offer"? Oh wait, that's right. That would be a CONTRACT. Except, you little twit, not one firm in America gives its associates CONTRACTS. You are an AT-WILL employee, just like 99% of the American work force. You can be fired at any time -- for any reason, or no reason. You don't even need to take employment law to know that.

Next we're going to have some TTT 1L suggesting "why don't the associates unionize?" Go back to failing your secured transaction exams.

And people -- lay off Elie. If you don't think the MLB "stipend" isn't conditioned on a public law job, you're crazy. MLB is NOT paying anybody $60k to sit at home and play playstation for a year. They expect you to get practical training / make connections you can use later in life (or at least that look good when they fill out the Pro Bono survey next year). If you don't have it, we aren't paying you.

Am I really the only 3L out there who wouldn't be so horrified by working for a public interest organization and getting paid this much? I would love to work for a public interest organization if I could afford it. This stipend allows you to do that. Is it really the end of the world? Did no one here become a lawyer in the first place because they wanted to help people, but then realize they would have to spend a few years selling their souls to pay back student loans before they could do what they really want?

133- why not? Latham and Orrick aren't clowning around with their stipends. They're real firms. MLB is a joke.

133- why not? Latham and Orrick aren't clowning around with their stipends. They're real firms. MLB is a joke.

134- the issue is not being able to get a public interest position. They don't grow on trees. This is MLB's stealth way of saying "tough luck- no money for you. If you haven't starved to death by 2010, we may use you."

Latham and Orrick smoke Morgan like a cheap cigar.

I don't see anything wrong with requiring someone to actually DO something to get paid. As 133 so artfully demonstrated these new grads need a good dose of law in the real world. The days of new associates calling the shots are over. If someone doesn't want to actually WORK for their stipend, s/he should step aside. There will be a long line of people waiting to take the space.

133--Notwithstanding prior statement, ATL is still a rag

134, nobody disagrees. Few think the stipend "allows you to do that," rather than serving as a smoke screen

Dewey & LeBoeuf has a public interest fellowship that incoming associates have to apply for by April. You have to propose a public interest job and you get $80,000 your first year, plus $5,000 moving expenses. But only 10 people get approved to do it. (Maybe everyone should be jumping on that bandwagon before something bad happens...)

140- good call. This is just a smoke screen by MLB.

I don't see anything wrong with requiring someone to actually DO something to get paid. As 133 so artfully demonstrated these new grads need a good dose of law in the real world. The days of new associates calling the shots are over. If someone doesn't want to actually WORK for their stipend, s/he should step aside. There will be a long line of people waiting to take the space.

133--Notwithstanding prior statement, ATL is still a rag

What's the big deal? They should just go get a job from another firm. Right after that they should practice fucking themselves up the ass with their $150,000 student loan balance.

121 is spot on:

These aren't going to be paying public interest jobs. Most big firms like morgan Lewis have great relationships with tons of public service organizations that they take pro-bono referals from or provide pro-bono services to. The firm will find it's deferred associates positions with these organizations (or work with the organizations to create programs that can take these deferred associates). The NGOs will happily oblige because they'll get a ton of free help from presumably smart first year associates and not have to pay for it. They'll also solidify their strong relationships with the firm."

IMHO, a paid stipend for a public interest job sure beats unemployment.

Forgive or make student loan debt dischargeable in bankruptcy before there is mass suicide and/or riots in the streets.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?gid=46657437878&ref=ts

At least there will be a period of time when there won't be (1) any first years to lay off and (2) complaints about Morgan laying off first years.

I think you should have to work--but I don't think they should limit it to Public Interest--what about volunteering for a local judge, etc.?

From one who got stuck with employment in the so called "public interest" world. If you are smart you will run. Don't take it! RUN

146 - if student loans were dischargeable in bankruptcy it would be impossible to get student loans. The only reason there is a market out there is because the risk assessment on a student loan is kept low by not making the debt dischargeable. I wouldn't have been able to go to college or law school if it wasn't for student loans that I'm swimming in right now. But making them dischargeable will just deprive people who really need the loans of the ability to get an education.

150, you're right. Also worth noting is that student loans are already dischargable to the extent that the debtor demonstrates "hardship" or something along the lines of "practically impossible to repay ever."

Oh yeah, public interest jobs are so easy to come by. Oh yeah, the organizations with relationships with biglaw will just create positions for these deferrals.

Really? Where are the associates going to sit? What are they going to work on? Desks and computers do not grow on trees. No organization is going to pay out scarce resources just to give someone a seat for a year. Without funding, they won't need that seat in a year. So the money is just wasted. That is money that can go towards providing actual programs, not a babysitting service for those waiting to return to biglaw.

I can also see the shock of the associates when they realize they don't get a private office with a door and there is no secretary.

Anyone senior associates thinking about banding together and starting a small shop?

This is just a cheap ploy by Morgan. It is "go away for no pay," without the explicit say so. Blow me MLB.

Discharge of student loans in bankruptcy is restricted to situations in which the court determines that failure to discharge such loans would result in "undue hardship." (Sec. 523(a)(8)). "Undue hardship" has in the past been interpreted very strictly, but it is certainly a subjective standard and it wouldn't be surprising if bankruptcy courts became more lenient in finding undue hardship for unemployed lawyers with tons of debt in this economy right now. After all, this is the time for "hope" and "change," and regardless of any arguments that law students should have seen this coming, etc, the decision to incur the debt was in no way unreasonable or irresponsible at the time.

It's unlikely that even the most forgiving, lenient bankruptcy judge would discharge the debts of someone fresh out of law school, but laid off junior associates who have previously made payments as required and are likely to get a replacement job with a much lower salary might have a chance.

It's not probable, but it's certainly worth a shot - especially since even unsuccessful cases might call legislative attention to the issue, and Obama does care about us so very much.

I'm a litigation secretary who lost my job today at Morgan Lewis. no severance.

152,

Where do you think that the funding for legal services comes from? A ton of it comes from big firm lawyers. And a ton of the legal work that comes into public interest organizations ends up gettin done by big firm lawyers working on a pro-bono basis. Big firms don't ask for anything in return.

Now, MLB is asking for a little help finding public interest work for it's new class. In the 6 or 8 months between now and the fall, they're going to work out a solution with the NGOs, especially when you consider that MLB is going to be footing the bill.

It's not hard. How about starting a consumer bankruptcy project? MLB can provide chapter 7 training to the first years. An NGO will provide client intake. A handful of law schools that MLB has given a boatload of money to will agree to let MLB students work in their librarys (or MLB can make a small gift to the NGO to cover the extra rent). Lexis or Westlaw donate a couple passwords. Problem solved.

156,

No severance is incredibly cheap. They should be ashamed of themselves.

30 is correct. ML will arrange placement in the job.

ML is giving these students a gift - they still have a source of income in a horrible economy, they still have a big law firm job, and they have avoided starting a job with the risk of layoffs over their heads. In the meantime, they can take a year to do work of real value for way more pay than they'd otherwise get to do this type of work, and they can gain some skills.

The reallity is that the economy dictates there isn't as much work as anticipated when these people were hired. Personally, I'm impressed with the way this was handled. I'm very sure it shortened the list of people laid off today.

134 - "Did no one here become a lawyer in the first place because they wanted to help people, but then realize they would have to spend a few years selling their souls to pay back student loans before they could do what they really want?"

Lots of people become lawyers for that reason. They just don't degrade themselves by posting here.

A lot of assumptions on here about the nature of "public interest" jobs - there is a lot of variety, which means that some orgs will be interested in taking on a free first year, and others won't.

I'm at a national non-profit doing appellate-level civil rights work. I hire our summer employees and I will be evaluating any deferred recent grads who have received this kind of deal from MLB or LW or whomever - one firm has already contacted me to see if we'd be interested. The answer, for us (and again it will vary from org to org) is a qualified yes.

Yes, I would love to have a smart, hardworking, heart-in-the-right-place '09 grad who fits in with our organizational culture and understands the basics of civil rights issues already. When I graduated law school, I went to a large firm for a few years. If I were graduating today, I would fit the profile of the kind of person we would be interested in taking for a year - because my intent was always to end up doing public interest work and I remained engaged in it even when I was in the private sector. A year is a decent amount of time and we could get some good work out of the person before he or she went back to his or her firm.

Recent grads deferred from a firm are NOT competing for these jobs (more like clerkships) with law students who have chosen to go the public interest route all the way. We do not hire recent grads for pay, period. We sponsor public interest-minded students for fellowships (like the Equal Justice Works fellowship), which costs us some money but not a full salary. We had already made the decision not to sponsor any students for fellowships in 2009 and probably 2010, for our own reasons. So, if we take on a deferred first year associate, it will not be at the expense of anyone who has been more dedicated to the kind of work we do.

Finally, and this is just my approach (can't speak for other orgs), I'm not necessarily going to take someone at all. I'm going to treat it like we're hiring for a paying position when it comes to my assessment of the person's skills, likeability, and whether I want to supervise him or her for a year. Recent grads can be tremendously helpful, or they can be dead weight. I'm only interested in the former and if someone comes to us who seems like he or she would be helpful, we'll do it. If not, no need.

And I want to see a cover letter.

Only lawyers would complain about making $60,000 and actually having to do something to earn it.

I hate almost every poster on this board. I'm a federal law clerk and I make less than $60k. MLB associates are getting the gift of public service. You will be a better lawyer compared to spending one year on doc review. I signed up for it. It should be required by the ABA. You are getting a gift. Show some gratitude.

Never fear, I, after a long hiatus am here! Thanks to Devil's Advocate for naming me FIRST on their list of ATL schticks. And what's this? OH NOES Morgan Lewis may require their associates to WORK for their money? What is this country coming too? LOL LAZIES!!!!

Oh, yeah - this is 161 again. Co-sign 163. Again speaking only for myself, if I get the slightest hint from any deferred grad applying to work for us that they are anything other than thrilled that their firm is paying them to work in public interest for a year - paying them a salary similar to what I make now - then definitely no soup for them.

I can't imagine any public interest organization that would turn down a free attorney. Get real.

I am a retired partner who still gets a dividend check from the Firm. To all these sniveling and undeserving brats that had the privilege of working at my Firm during your limited tenure, be very grateful for the experience and opportunity to work at a fine environment. We trained you at our expense to become fine lawyers. We groomed you during the early years when you were considered a liability. The economy has hit the skids. It is either the partner or you. Who do you think is going to come out on top? It's a dog eat dog world. Take your severance and walk away quietly before we bill you for the coffee, personal calls and personal car rides. I am disgusted at these posts from undeserving third year law students who think they are entitled to draw a salary at my Firm. You have a degree, if you are so smart, hang a shingle or make money on your own steam. I have to go to bed now as tee off time is at 7AM tomorrow.

166, are you in public interest?

Or, do you supervise first years?

If the answer to either of these questions is yes, then I think it is you who needs to get real.

168 - yes to both. (I think you meant to ask if I would answer both to no.)

Actually, you're right. I'm neither. Just bored and posting.

has some PR firm been assigned to post to this board? GET REAL... ASSOCIATES AT MLB SHOULD NEVER AGAIN TRUST THEIR FIRM'S LEADERSHIP. THE ASSOCIATES AND FIRM HAD A DEAL AND THE FIRM DECIDED TO BREAK THAT DEAL (AND MISLEAD NEW ASSOCIATES) TO KEEP PARTNERS MAKING TOO MUCH MONEY.

ONLY IDIOTS ACCEPT THE "ECONOMY" EXCUSE.

171--Get real--the economy is in the toilet.

172--get real--MLB is the toilet.

Bankruptcy is NOT a good way out for a lawyer -- bear in mind that filing for BK might pose all sorts of C&F issues, and greatly limits job prospects.

If Morgan Lewis is deferring the 2009 and 2010 associate classes, what happens to the 2011 associate class? At some point there are going to be two classes of incoming associates starting at the same time. Why don't they just rescind the offers to the '09 summer associates and get it over with??

"And a ton of the legal work that comes into public interest organizations ends up gettin done by big firm lawyers working on a pro-bono basis. Big firms don't ask for anything in return."

Except, of course, for a big pat on the back as the partners retreat to their Westchester houses and UES townhouses.

Screw it. Fire them all. Tomorrow, 500 junior associates and 1000 secretaries will line up outside to work at half their pay.

We're in this together. Your team and ours.

175 - It seems pretty clear to me that there is going to be no 2010 summer associate class. That way, there is no overlap for the incoming 2011 first year associate class. The firm probably hasn't announced this yet because it doesn't have to announce it. That's probably why recruiting coordinators also got laid off, among the many staff members cut.

And on the off-chance that the economy makes a quick, incredible turnaround justifying in their minds a limited 2010 summer associate class, they may not have to make any announcement at all.

Therein lies the answer to your question.

Dechert is likely next. Historically, it's always waited for Morgan to make the first move. With a massive class of first years expected to arrive there in the Fall, I wouldn't be surprised to see the firm adopt a similar policy. Dechert's management is probably giddy now that it has the green light.

Hey 167,

I've been hanging shingles since before I was legally allowed. I've earned everything I have and in the future I'll get whatever I earn. I don't recall any sniveling on my part. Your firm would be lucky to have me.

167, Fuck YOU but thank you for not charging me for all the personal car rides I took on the firm's tab, including one to the Borgata last summer. If I ever see the likes of you at a golf course, I will shove a couple of titlist balls up your rectum and follow up with a 9 iron then a wedge.

I'm a current 3L who has accepted a job with MLB for the fall. I am affected in this announcement. From what I have been told by my supervising attorney in my office of MLB, we cannot obtain an LLM instead of doing public interest work and still receive the stipend. Also, we MUST do the public interest work in order to get the stipend.

It is not clear at this time whether a law license is going to be required for the public interest work or where we are going to be required to do the public interest work. i.e. in the city where we currently live or in the city where the office we are joining is.

It's not clear whether they are going to chose a public interest group for us or if we can suggest our own. Basically, all we know is that we don't have jobs until October 2010 (if even then), and that we have to do public interest work for 12 months in order to get a modest stipend that will help us pay our student loans and put food in our mouths for a year.

Am I upset? Yes... Am I mad at MLB? Yes... Am I questioning my decision to work with MLB? Yes.... However, I feel fortunate that my offer did not get rescinded completely as others have.

When is reed smith laying off associates? I keep hearing mid march.

When is reed smith laying off associates? I keep hearing mid march.

183- what incoming 3Ls have had their job offers rescinded?

Morgan Lewis incoming first years -- this is unfortunate news but definitely not the end of the world. Do something interesting with your first year and enjoy your time. You'll be fine in the end. No matter what these uninformed people say, Morgan Lewis is a great place to work (and no, I do not and never have worked there).

Sweet deal.

183, I hope if Dechert is next, they get rid of Matt Larrabee, If they don't their ship will sink eventually.

186; I did. Hence the insomnia at 4:30am.

176,

Let me explain how pro-bono works in normal economic times - a deal closes or a case settles and an associate or partner has a little down time. THey think, this could be a good time to do a little pro-bono and make the world a better place. But by the time the pro-bono matter really gets rolling, the big firm lawyer has been staffed on a slew of new billable matters. They inevitably end up getting to their pro-bono after 10:00 pm and on the weekends.

My point is that the partners and associates who do significant pro-bono work *deserve* a pat on the back. After 10 hours of legal work, the last thing anybody wants to do is an additional 2 hours of legal work . . . for free. If the lawyers you do a lot of pro-bono accasionally get recognized for that fact, that's a good thing. It's not like it impresses paying clients. It really is just someting done "for good."

- In the office to do pro-bono before business hours

183--try telling the vast majority of America that $60,000 is "nominal," especially those who have been laid off and are receiving $0. I understand this is not what you thought would happen, but no one predicted the world-wide economic collapse. You have been asked to defer 1 year with reduced pay, but you still have a job. You have not been singled out and MLB is not the only firm implementing deferments. Take this opportunity to do some good. Instead of focusing on your disappointment and anger, work on getting your head together so that you are in the right frame of mind to keep your job when you are finally able to report to work. Most lkely, there won't be many other options available....

28 - you douche. rumor is your precious skadden sent out a memo that cuts are happening this week. rumor by word of mouth is that ~20% of associates will be cut. no one is safe. wake up.

192 and all the people who sound like him- screw. Yeah, I know people have it bad all over but just becaue there is some blind, legless, homeless man with AIDS somewhere doesn't mean MLB 3Ls don't have a right to be pissed. They do. And then MLB has the gall t make it sound like the 3Ls have nothing to complain about with this phony stipend. The 3Ls will never see dime one of this stipend due to the stipulation and MLB knows it. They are counting on it.

171- good call. It does seem like someone got hired to come on this board and tell everyone what a great deal MLB gave its 3Ls. "You'll do some good," "You are lucky to be getting a stipend (which they'll never get)," etc. Get real- MLB screwed over their 3Ls. Just hand over the stipend MLB and most will be forgiven.

WOW- Morgan really screwed their 3Ls and summers over. Jerk offs. They have no intention of paying out any stipend. If they did, they would just give it up front like Latham and Orrick.

194,195,196--if you are going to make three posts in a row, you should change your writing style.

The sense of entitlement of young lawyers is unreal. No wonder the general public hates lawyers so much. No other profession would expect to receive pay for doing absolutely nothing. If you are ready to enter the workforce, you need to put away your WII remote and act like an adult.

The sense of entitlement of young lawyers is unreal. No wonder the general public hates lawyers so much. No other profession would expect to receive pay for doing absolutely nothing. If you are ready to enter the workforce, you need to put away your WII remote and act like an adult.

the overarching theme is that Morgan is screwing thier 3Ls.

Why is the MLB PR machine (199) still kicking on this board?

I would be happy to take this deal. If you don' t like the deal, step aside and let someone else take your place. If you don't intend to do that, stop whining.

I'm sure the 3Ls would be happiest with the deal that was promised to them by MLB.

Tanks for nuthin

I am sure that all of the jobless people in America would be happy if the economy wasn't in the tank, but it is. Things change. Life isn't fair. You think you have it bad? Change places with an investment banker.

Something to ponder: If MLB is willing to pay 60K to work in a non-profit, why don't they just pay 60K and allow the associate to WORK AT MLB? For those associates that can't get non-profit work, wouldn't they prefer to work for 60K, make some connections, get their feet wet, and get experience at a top firm than make nothing and get depressed? I could be wrong, but I think that makes the most sense for all parties involved.

206: As a current 3L MLB expected entering associate looking at this public interest option... I have the same question you do. Why can't I just work for the firm with lower pay? At least I'd be getting one year of experience !! Plus, I'd learn the ins and outs of what is expected of me and what kind of work they do. Unfortunately, that's not an option.

It is all becaue MLB doesn't want to pay the 60K. They know they won't have to if they condition it on finding public interest work. The stipend is a lie.

2006 and 207: the point is that there is NO WORK for you to "get your feet wet" with. That's why they are offering this bogus stipend, as 208 points out--they're never going to actually hire more than 1/2 of the current 3Ls who have an offer.

209 Where did you get your crystal ball? I want one, too. Can't wait to predict the future.

209: That is untrue. I was told from my office of MLB that they had plenty of work for me to do. This was a firm-wide decision. It was not made on a case-by-case basis where they analyzed which incoming associates would actually have work to do. My practice group is sill busy and still needs help.

209: That is untrue. I was told from my office of MLB that they had plenty of work for me to do. This was a firm-wide decision. It was not made on a case-by-case basis where they analyzed which incoming associates would actually have work to do. My practice group is sill busy and still needs help.

211-212. Philadelphia office is laying associates off. Wake up.

179- how do you know recruiting coordinators got laid off?

211-212. Philadelphia office is laying associates off. Wake up.

211-212. Philadelphia office is laying associates off. Wake up.

"I was told from my office of MLB..." You believe these people? The same people who gave you an offer and then took it and are now lying about you getting a stipend? Wake up.

198 - Some of us are adults. Now I'll go back to paying my mortgage and trying to keep food on my kids plates. Entitlement? That's BS. I had offers to go to other firms that I turned down. Partners repeatedly reassured me that everything was fine and that they were in a better financial position than other firms. Now I am screwed. There is no severance. There is no unemployment money. I guess I'll just sell the rest of my stocks at the bottom of the market and after that- I don't know- learn to farm?

Oh -- and I for one haven't played a video game since starting law school. Working hard is how I got an offer in the first place.

to all the people claiming entitlement- get real. You should feel entitled to what you were promised when you relied on that promise. People worked hard for these spots and were promised something.

It is funny to hear all the bitching about this. I think it is a pretty fucking good alternative to rescinding offers. If the economy picks up, ML can look at their first years and see if they actually did something worthwhile that will help their legal skills v. sit on their ass. If they sit on their asses, that's probably a good indication of how they will tend to their legal career.

so quit your whining and find an interesting gig for a year, underwritten by ML. Learn something instead of doing document review or other dd.

219 All of the associates in all of the firms who have needed to do lay-offs worked hard for those spots. Shouldn't those attorneys be entitled to something? Perhaps they should get to keep their jobs and incomings should forfeit theirs. Get real--the economy has tanked. Things change.

What a completely screwed up place. Avoid this firm like the plague. So many big firms are going to crater in the next year or two, better to know now rather than start your career with a bunch of people likethis. Adivce: begin your legal career with a spin off firm where you will get quality work with quality supervision. You might even get to go to court or take a deposition before you're 30.

lol, I remember during fall oci (after the economy started tanking) some south african MLB douche (why the fuck they sent this guy to do interviews I will never know, his personality alone was enough to turn me off of the firm) looked at me and then at all the other firm reps in the room and boldly stated that MLB was the "only firm that was going to be in the black this year." What a crock of shit, I'm glad I didn't follow up with them.

I cannot believe the audacity of people to complain about being pay to take employment elsewhere for one year. Especially when people had their position eliminated yesterday, I think maybe you should get your head out of the clouds and look at the new world we are going to be living in. Maybe you will see it is not such a harsh deal after all.

I cannot believe the audacity of people to complain about being paid to take employment elsewhere for one year. Especially when people had their position eliminated yesterday, I think maybe you should get your head out of the clouds and look at the new world we are going to be living in. Maybe you will see it is not such a harsh deal after all.

206: The only reason to work at the big firms for about 99% of people is the money. Period. Who would take $60K to work long hours with a bunch of stiffs?

Isn't this plan better than not having a job at all. What if MLB just let go of all you whining brats that think the world owes you because you went to law school. What about all the doctors that have to do 4 year of intership before even making close to a 1st year whine bag lawyer.

Morgan Lewis is a TTT!