Nationwide Layoff Watch: Fried Frank Public(!) Layoffs
Late last week, we told you that bad things were coming down the pipe at Fried Frank. This morning, the firm announced that 99 people will be let go:
Effective today, we are implementing changes that will result in an overall reduction of 41 associates and 58 administrative staff from our U.S. workforce. This decision is one we worked very hard to avoid. But we must respond responsibly to the current environment. We would like to express our appreciation to everyone impacted by these decisions for all they have done for our Firm and our clients.
The economy is so bad that even firms that “don’t do lawyer layoffs” are having to do lawyer layoffs.
It’s not even surprising anymore that the firm is deferring all incoming first-year associates to January 2010. Fried Frank is also following the trend of asking associates to defer until the fall of 2010:
Additional steps announced today pertain to our fall 2009 class and our 2009 summer associate programs in the U.S. The start date of our fall 2009 class has been deferred to January 28, 2010. All incoming associates whose start date is deferred until January 2010 will receive a $10,000 stipend. We are also offering an opportunity for members of the fall 2009 class to defer until the fall 2010. We are encouraging those associates to develop their legal skills by pursuing a public interest or government position or by volunteering with a legal, political or community-based organization. Those who elect this deferral will receive a stipend of $70,000 plus health benefits.
And Fried Frank is cutting its summer program from 12 weeks down to 10.
Ninety-nine layoffs. Shortening of summer programs. Deferral of incoming associates:
I don’t like,
I don’t like,
I don’t like Mondays.
Read the full memo after the jump.
FRIED FRANK — MEMORANDUM — LAYOFFS
Dear All,
Over the past several months we have seen substantial changes in the U.S. and international financial markets which have adversely affected our clients and the legal community overall. We have many long-standing and more recent clients for whom we continue to do substantial and important work and have continued to be involved in a number of high profile matters for them over the past 12 months.
The markets’ decline shows little sign of slowing, and many of our clients’ businesses are changing. To meet the challenges of these changes and after careful review, we have decided to reduce the number of our lawyers and staff, much like many other law firms around the country have found it necessary to do. We have made these hard decisions in the long-term interests of our business, the people in it and the ongoing requirement for their professional development.
Effective today, we are implementing changes that will result in an overall reduction of 41 associates and 58 administrative staff from our U.S. workforce. This decision is one we worked very hard to avoid. But we must respond responsibly to the current environment. We would like to express our appreciation to everyone impacted by these decisions for all they have done for our Firm and our clients.
Additional steps announced today pertain to our fall 2009 class and our 2009 summer associate programs in the U.S. The start date of our fall 2009 class has been deferred to January 28, 2010. All incoming associates whose start date is deferred until January 2010 will receive a $10,000 stipend. We are also offering an opportunity for members of the fall 2009 class to defer until the fall 2010. We are encouraging those associates to develop their legal skills by pursuing a public interest or government position or by volunteering with a legal, political or community-based organization. Those who elect this deferral will receive a stipend of $70,000 plus health benefits. Finally, both of our summer associate programs in New York and Washington DC will now conform to a ten, not twelve-week schedule.
You will receive all the necessary information from your direct supervisor today about the changes. Please let us know if you have any questions.
Valerie Jacob and Justin Spendlove
Earlier: Nationwide Layoff Watch: Stealth Layoffs at Fried Frank
(311) 
Comments
charlotte law>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>UNC
So, the ship be sunk?
Did they announce an earlier start date previously? Or is this the first anyone has heard of a start date?
99--keeping it under 100. cute.
i hate mondays.
Little late to be changing summer program dates - subleases have been signed.
I hate Monkeys!
What kind of severance (que "Paul Bearer") for the departed 41?
If any summer is signing a sublease without double-checking with his or her firm that the summer program dates are set, woe be unto you.
its
Dates were set a few months back and confirmed more recently. Losing a week in the beginning and and another at the end.
Elie's commentary seems to be getting more flippant as the layoffs keep piling up. Gallows humor, or a smug sense of job assurance as traffic to the site increases no matter how bad the writing is?
99 dreams I have had.
In every one a red balloon.
It's all over and I'm standing pretty.
In this dust that was a city.
If I could find a souvenir.
Just to prove the world was here.
And here is a red balloon
I think of you and let it go.
Its not going to get better. If the hours aren't being billed, cuts are inevitable. Firms that waited will move soon.
how is jan 2010 the fall of 2010?
You put your fried frank in.
You put your fried frank out.
You put your fried frank in.
And you shake it all about.
You do the hokey pokey.
And you turn yourself around.
That's what it's all about.
I would never make public how Fried my Frank was. Somethings are personal and should never see the light of day.
Robert Pattinson
Anyone know whether those laid off have been notified yet?
only solution for all these firms is a structural change -- service partners cannot make more than $350k. period (call them partners/non-equity, whatever you want). yeah, i know associates make almost that much. but realistically, business model requries this. first firm to do it will be first to move forward.
9,
The firm could easily shorten summer program dates after stating set dates at an earlier time. It's almost April and most summer programs start in May. It isn't far fetched to believe that someone could have signed a sublease based on dates a firm had previous sent out.
9,
The firm could easily shorten summer program dates after stating set dates at an earlier time. It's almost April and most summer programs start in May. It isn't far fetched to believe that someone could have signed a sublease based on dates a firm had previously sent out.
I would just like to say a big F U to all these law firms.
They are being called in one by one now.
Ms. Jacob and Mr. Spendlove:
I suspect that the "impacted" deserve more than "appreciation." I think you will also want to give them their severance. Call me at your earliest convenience.
I want to shoot the whole day down...
15,
The post says that 3Ls have two start options: January 2010 or Fall 2010.
No market-is-up guy today. Dow down 230.
How many total layed-off? The old "Performace based" (cough, cough) and these?
LOL at 13.
Former friends frequently fried franks for Fried Frank before they were fired for not frying enough franks, it was no big deal.
FRIED STUD
FFHSJ has had three rounds of layoffs since August. They laid off around 80 staff members in August, stealth layoffs conducted mostly in November and now this round. They also contracted out numerous jobs in their mail room and maintenance departments, with an unknown number of cuts. The stealth attorney layoffs also appear to have been in the 30-40 range.
Let them eat LOBSTER.
Note that the layoffs only relate to U.S. workforce. I have to wonder if cuts are also being made overseas but are not being acknowledged because no one will call b.s.
9,
The firm could easily shorten summer program dates after stating set dates at an earlier time. It's almost April and most summer programs start in May. It isn't far fetched to believe that someone could have signed a sublease based on dates a firm had previously sent out.
the "we don't do layoffs" comment was obviously said on opposite day.
So nice to find out my start date via atl.
first years?
Severance? Effective date?
9,
The firm could easily shorten summer program dates after stating set dates at an earlier time. It's almost April and most summer programs start in May. It isn't far fetched to believe that someone could have signed a sublease based on dates a firm had previously sent out.
Good luck to all those laid off.
99 layoffs.
It is a price point. Much like one might find at Wal-Mart or Target. I'm not saying Fried Frank is as good as Wal-Mart or Target, however.
I've heard most associates are getting only two weeks severance.
You and I in a little law school
Buy a legal degree
With the money we've got
Graduate from a T14
Find a job with money obscene
Riding the boom, everything is great
Partner tells us
"You'll always be here"
Soaring through the biglaw sky
99 Friend Frankers and I
99 Fried Frankers
Soaring through the biglaw sky
Panic bells, it's red alert
There was credit here
But now it's gone
The recession springs to life
Listen up it's layoff time
There's the unemployment line
Where 99 Fried Frankers go by
99 "You're Fired" Street
99 partners meet
To worry, worry, super-scurry
Get the costs down in a hurry
This is what we've waited for
Someone saying, "there's the door"
The managing partner is on the line
As 99 Fried Frankers go by
99 salaries saved
Ensure the PPP'll be raised
Everyone's a revenue drag
Everyone's a wheel cog
With clients to satisfy
To dignify and un-petrify
Crashing down from the biglaw sky
As 99 Fried Frankers go by
As 99 Fried Frankers go by
99 dreams I have had
In every one a Fried Franker
It's all over and I'm still employed
In this office that's now devoid
If I could find a souvenier
Just to prove my friends were here
And here is a Fried Franker
I think of them as he goes
Not sure that Bob Geldof would appreciate his lyrics being used in this context, given the song's original intent. As bad as it is, it's hard to equate being gunned down with being laid off from a large law firm (and I am one of the recently laid off so please don't paint me insensitive). My condolences to all of those in this situation - it truly sucks.
Why so REMAINS?
Best of luck to 40.
42,
Hard to believe only two weeks severance; way below market. Speaks volumes about the financial condition of the firm, if in fact it is true.
has anyone compiled a list of firms who have deferred their incoming associates? are there any firms left that have not deferred?
No associate at any firm is safe right now, and going to work everyday and trying to squeeze as much work as we can out of partners and clients is wearing on us all. No matter how good we perceive our work to be, if the clients don't have the work to give to the firm, we're screwed. Who's to say we won't be tomorrow's stealth "performance" layoffs or the next day's outright layoffs?
My condolences to those laid off. There but by the grace.....
Goodwin has yet to announce anything...
48,
Goodwin Procter hasn't deferred.
That stinks
This is on top of the stealth lawyer layoffs that Elie has missed. They've been stealth letting go corporate associates at least for a while.
Re: 50/51 both posting bout Goodwin in same minute
Same person or strange coincidence?
This is what happens to people who do not live and work in Texas. I feel sorry for no one.
3500 sq ft and a wife.
If you take the $70K and benefits and choose to do something else in a year do you have to pay it back? What if you find that you like public interest law or you sign up for several years in the peace corps? Can I take the money, pay off my loans, and become a minister?
Obviously Goodwin is pushing until at least January if not March or full year.
The froze salaries and cut summer class to 1/3 of '08 size. They have a bunch of new offices, so they seem to be taking a cautious route when it comes to everything else.
God, 49, so true. Great comment, this isn't sustainable.
I suppose Fried Frank was another law firm I ponzied.. Eyyyyyyyyyyyyy
49 - Speak for yourself, bitch. A,s an IP associate, I've got an insane amount of work on my desk and anyways IP work never slows down...
Can you really call starting on the second to last business day of the month a "January start date"?
CWT hasn't deferred and the summer is still 12 weeks
57,
I predict Goodwin busts out some new strategies that we haven't even heard of from other firms.
One thing firms should do is pay/subsidize incoming associates to work for clients. Instead of paying Corporate associates 60k to go defend tenants in housing court for a year, they'll be working with corporate clients getting first hand experience so that when they start full-time at the firm, they're a step ahead of their peers that worked for public defenders.
I would be very concerned if I were at a Real Estate centric firm. I am speaking specifically about FF, Paul Hastings and Greenberg Traurig who have each conducted stealth layoffs mixed with announced layoffs. That strikes me as a desparate act to quietly ease numbers without raising too much panic. If these firms were on solid footing, they would just dump a bunch of associates and be done with it. I would speculate that years of recruiting "superstar" partners who operate their practice groups in essentially in a vaccum might be considering jumping ship.
Conversely, without any "bluechip" clients to bank on these firms are desperate to keep the treadmill going faster by attracting new "superstars" which represent the only means of growth. Announcing wholesale layoffs makes lateral partners worried about the stability of the firm (or more likely thier ability at a new firm to throw their weight around in a contentious partner distribution committee meeting).
Bottomline is that these firms could be in bigger trouble then any of them let on. Will see how it all shakes out.
62,
Echo you, just with Willkie. 12 weeks and No push backs. No firing either (apparently)
To the earlier posters talking about Goodwin: they very well may delay start dates. But the longer they wait to announce, the worse it is for the incoming associates -- some of us will need to get jobs in the meantime, and the longer we don't know when we are starting, the more behind will will be in looking for these jobs. Not to mention the moving issue -- they'll only reimburse us for moves within 3 months of our start date. I have a lease I need to sign in April -- no idea how long that lease should be without a start date.
I understand needing to defer. What I don't understand is the "need" to screw with incoming associates so that they can't plan, can't get other jobs, etc. Announce already. Jesus.
What 60 said.
60,
Good for you if you have work, but I can tell you that, in the course of my job search, I've met many laid off IP attorneys. In any event, firms are so weak right now, they are cutting costs wherever possible. This is the same reason even busy bankruptcy practices are not hiring. Unless you are really essential to a practice, you are at risk.
Transactions come, transactions go
Litigation comes, litigation goes.
Regulatory work remains -- my strong advice, get solid grounding in regulatory compliance and government lobbying -- you'll have unique marketable skills.
Any word on the distribution of layoffs between DC and NY and between corporate and other practices?
69 - that's great advice for those of us already pigeon-holed at a firm. many thanks.
CWT female '05 associates are also hot and horny because of their job security.
69 = racist lobster
71 -- Don't let yourself be pigeonholed -- my old firm insisted that incoming associates split their first year between two practice groups, as they valued well-rounded lawyers who were not narrowly focused -- precisely so that if a practice area tanked the lawyer could do something else. Test for partnership was would you have work if your biggest client went away and your practice area become slow.
48 -- paul weiss hasn't pushed back dates (yet), plus full summer program...
Can we get a list of those who have deferred (and how/when), and those that have not?
Das gibt's doch gar nicht. Geht auf keine Kuhhaut.
7 = +1
Johnny Chimpo
54 - Strange coincidence... I think GP is the only remaining firm with 100+ incoming associates that has not announced anything.
- 50
Agree with 69. I do regulatory work and will bill about 250 for March, which is my 3rd 200+ hour month in a row.
Not a happy Monday
I am too legit
too legit to quit.
Fried Spanker
word is that GP is looking for "creative solutions" potentially different from what other firms have announced...
63: I bet that Goodwin just busts, period. (To some degree.) They incurred a lot of debt and obligations in their recent expansions just before things went down the crapper, and the billings and income aren't there now to support the expanded capacity. Those spiffy new offices in NY and Cali are still costing them a pretty penny.
It would be very creative if GP just canned all their first years and rescinded everyone's offers.
Cahill hasn't deferred start dates.
66,
As much as it makes people get their panties in a bunch, I don't blame Goodwin for waiting. What is the rush? Obviously its nice to plan your European bar trip and get all your lease ducks in a row, but its not that bad. I could find an apartment with a lease starting next week if I had to, and we know Goodwin is pushing at least til Jan., so there isn't a huge rush. So you might have to sublet for a bit, big deal, they're making million dollar decisions.
As for moving expenses, I highly doubt they'll cheap out there. Most people will only have a few hundred bucks for a van and some boxes or at worst a couple moving guys. Not many people trekking cross country on this.
I'm not really sure how much is to gain by waiting a couple weeks, future still seems pretty hazy looking out to 2010.
As long as they do right by their incoming associates in the end, a couple weeks shouldn't be a huge deal.
In the meantime, keep waiting ,keep refreshing ATL and making its owners rich.
I've got 99 problems, but a job ain't one
66,
As much as it makes people get their panties in a bunch, I don't blame Goodwin for waiting. What is the rush? Obviously its nice to plan your European bar trip and get all your lease ducks in a row, but its not that bad. I could find an apartment with a lease starting next week if I had to, and we know Goodwin is pushing at least til Jan., so there isn't a huge rush. So you might have to sublet for a bit, big deal, they're making million dollar decisions.
As for moving expenses, I highly doubt they'll cheap out there. Most people will only have a few hundred bucks for a van and some boxes or at worst a couple moving guys. Not many people trekking cross country on this.
I'm not really sure how much is to gain by waiting a couple weeks, future still seems pretty hazy looking out to 2010.
As long as they do right by their incoming associates in the end, a couple weeks shouldn't be a huge deal.
In the meantime, keep waiting ,keep refreshing ATL and making its owners rich.
I "was" a midlevel regulatory associates, billing well over 200/month but was laid off recently because the firm had to cut associates from all practice groups. The associates left behind are swamped with too much work. NO ONE is safe these days.
82 = MK, trying to distract GP incomings from the lack of communication from the firm.
Goodwin may have extended itself with offices in Cali, but it also froze salaries and has 1/3 summer class size coming in. They're just positioning themselves well for the future when things pick back up. Once the economy rebounds, they'll have all the offices and people they need to proceed with their plan for world domination.
99 fried frank people on the wall, 99 fried frank people...take one down, partners screw 'em around, 98 fried frank people on the wall...
86 -- bar trip? You seriously think incoming associates are worried about planning a bar trip? If only that is all that's on my mind. You have got to be kidding me.
88 - how do we "know" GP is definitely pushing to Jan? not everyone has...and, GP was smarter than many to take such a small 2009 summer class - something they planned for this past summer.
Every commenter so far represent a fallen Fried Franker.
*moment of silence*
What's going on at Schiff? Stealth layoffs but no pushed back start dates and they're just about the only Chicago firm still at 12 week summers. Something's got to be up, right?
99 problems but Fried Frank aint one
If you're havin' money problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but Fried Frank ain't one
Hit me
85 - aren't you speaking a little prematurely? Cahill hasn't announced start dates either.
Fried Frank finally stopped the "performance-based" crap and honestly admitted that the firm is in shithole right now. I am quite sympathetic with some big-ego FF partners. It must hurt them terribly when they realize that they are not as good as they imagined them to be.
My thoughts are with those being let go today.
A former FFHSJer
FF severance (if any)?
TOP SECRET GOODWIN PROCTER MEMO:
All incoming associates should contact [redacted] at [redacted] to schedule individual meetings. Those in the Boston area should conduct their meetings in person, while those in other locations should schedule phone meetings.
During this meeting, incoming associates with play "Start Date or No Start Date" in which they will select a case at random. They will then choose cases to be opened and start dates ranging from "Rescission" to "Sep. 1, 2009" will be revealed. At preset and announced intervals, Hiring Partner will offer a deal based upon which start dates have been revealed and which remain to be opened.
All expenses related to travel for the purposes of this meeting will be reimbursable. If you have any further questions, contact [redacted] at [redacted]. Good luck,.
-B.O.O.M.
There are so many useless PARTNERS at FF - why not let them go? Oh yeah, they get to vote...
A former FFHSJer
There are so many useless PARTNERS at FF - why not let them go? Oh yeah, they get to vote...
A former FFHSJer
There are so many useless PARTNERS at FF - why not let them go? Oh yeah, they get to vote...
A former FFHSJer
Wow, all I want to see is the new brackets for the "most safe firm" contest!!!!
105,
I know!!! It's that kind of hard hitting exclusive stuff that makes me keep coming back!!!!
101,
A+
91 is on crack or something stronger.
94: Goodwin wasn't 'smart' for having a smaller 2009 SA class. They blew it by having a huge/bloated 2008 SA class. Have they announced how many of those poor incoming SAs have had their offers revoked? No way are they taking in 130+ new associates in the fall. No way. Take off the rose-colored glasses and stop drinking the kool-aid.
I estimate FF has laid off 25% of its U.S.-based associate staff since October.
Stealth layoffs in October/November was estimated to be in 30-40 range in NY alone. This was essentially confirmed at the end of Feb (i.e., the end of the 3-month severance period for those axed in Nov.), when ~30 associates disappeared from the firm's website. A number of associates left between Nov. and Feb as well, so an estimate of 40 total in NY is probably a good bet.
In addition, according to many commenters on ATL, there were many stealth layoffs in D.C. for months before and after the Nov. carnage. Anybody's guess as to the real number.
FF currently lists approximately 290 U.S.-based associates on its website, which (I believe) includes the 41 being let go today.
Do the math. 25% may actually be below the real number. Wow.
Goodwin laid off 4% of associates and staff on Feb 12 (don't know the breakdown).
What about Davis Polk? I heard from an associate there that associates in corporate have been told that no more work would be available for them after the next 3 months, and that they should start looking elsewhere...why no news on these very real stealth layoffs?
The ax will soon fall at Willkie.
But I am confused as to how Cahill and Milbank have both avoided this mess so far... are they just waiting on the inevitable? Because it seems the earlier incoming associates know their situation, the better....
98
True, but the word "yet" is implicit in most reports of future layoff or start date matters. Some firms have changed start dates after establishing them.
Elie:
You should look into how Goodwin is pushing out its first years. Currently, all first years have fake (non-billable) projects that they are being reviewed on by senior and mid level associates. These projects are then going to be used to fire them for performance.
I'm sure there are Goodwin people on here to vouch for what is happening
107,
Nobody expects Goodwin to have a fall start date.
122 NAILED IT!
99 Dumb Associates on the chopping block
99 Fried Associates on the block
You give one their pink slip and severance
98 former Frank associates ...
Great way to start the week. Pray that NY's unemployment fund doesn't go bankrupt. Those law degrees and three bucks won't buy you a decent latte now.
114: Goodwin still hasn't announced anything regarding start dates (or confirming their employment offers), have they? It's practically April and they have a lot of 3Ls hanging in the breeze. That's pretty sad.
117 -- they sent an email after the layoffs happened, trying to reassure us that they still want us. And one letter from ages ago confirming acceptance of their offer. Nothing else. It is sad.
Milbank has most definitely not avoided layoffs, they just opted for the stealth kind with below market severance. Real classy.
117,
They sent an e-mail saying that they'd find out start date in Spring. It's still Spring.
113,
More info please.
Did FF lay off 1st years?
When will Milbank defer already!!!!!'
From Boomtown to bust. Looks like the Rats ahad it right. Shoot the whole day down.
What's going on at Greenberg Traurig?
Word is that Milbank will call incoming associates this week with the deferral news. They wanted to avoid it but now it has become obvious that there is no room for 90 new associates in October.
FF laid off first years.
How many first years were fired? Did they Latham them or just can a few?
I thought a Greenberg Traurig was a new VW.
Love how on the one hand people want a "Whats going on at Goodwin?" thread, but then as soon as he posts it, others will be like "INVESTIGATE B4 YOU POST!"
97 -- great shout out to 95 theses.
Minimal severance offered to the departing associates.
what is going on at dickstein shapiro
111 - Cahill had layoffs, they certainly haven't "avoided this mess so far."
I love how this FF memo says they have to "respond responsibly to the current environment." Responsibly to who, exactly? Only the partners themselves, and to put it as though they are being responsible for anyone else is disgustingly disingenuous. FF associates, THIS is who you work for. What they mean to say is, we must keep our seven figure incomes and 2nd Porsches even if it means putting young associates with few if any other options out in the street and potentially ruining their careers after telling them this was a firm that "doesn't do lawyer layoffs."
Where's Tyrone Green when you need him?
does anyone have an update on departments, class years, anything?
Do most "stealth" layoffs involve situations in which a firm seeks to cull its mid and senior associate ranks, 3 years on, by letting people go who in earlier times (when alternative employment options were available) likely would have left on their own? That would seem to be in a very different category than terminating first or second years who haven't had much of an opportunity.
what does "minimal severance" mean?
any news on class years, departments?
Any news on Proskauer and round 3?
MILBANK NEEDS TO CALL US (INCOMING ASSOCIATES) TODAY!!!! JUST GET IT OVER WITH SO WE CAN MOVE ON!!!
Two weeks to a month, 136.
133,
I couldn't agree more with your sentiments re: "acting responsibly." What a joke. Fact that FF has apparently not provided severance indicates it is in dire situation. Perhaps they are looking for a merger partner and want to carry as few ongoing liabilities as possible.
137---no solid rumors yet of a third, but there's not much work around. It may be more likely to be of the stealth variety.
I'm a 3L headed to O'Melveny in fall... er, December. Although we had confirmed starts dates in September, we now have a new start date of December 1. My question: Doesn't that seem ealier than most firms that have pushed back start dates? Should I be worried that the firm will push back AGAIN? Isn't December just a wierd time to have new associates start anyway, what, with the holiday and all. Anyone?
Don't worry, 143, you will have plenty of free time around Christmas. Not much money, though.
I don't even know what that means, 144. I am not interested in free time. I am just thinking that it seems strange that the firm would ahve us start in December when so many people are taking vaca and there is little work to go around. You would think they would want us to start in January (if at all) when they can at least pretend to be busy.
--143
Deferring until January allows firms not to pay prorated bonuses to first years, correct?
I don't think this dude starting in December is worried about a stub bonus.
Let me make it plain for you 143 -- your odds of starting at O'Melveny in December or ever are slim unless things pick up considerably. No one, not O'Melveny, needs first years. They are all expense, no profit, and firms are just too cash poor to afford it. Your best outcome is a further push back. Your worst outcome is, well, that's obvious.
--144
144 is a firm marketing genius.
Law students graduating in '09 will become a "lost generation" for the profession. Law firms that have pushed back will realize that they can just rely on the '10 graduates next year and begin slowly rescinding offers to '09. This is already happening. What's the point of pushing back the '09's when the '10 will get to the firms so soon after the '09's join?
WilmerHale = zilch. No word on start dates.
150 - Why not defer 2009 till 2010, 2010 till 2011 (if necessary) and then just have tiny summer classes next year. Problem solved from you your end.
Bob & Bob
I applaud Ms. Jacob and Mr. Spendlove for starting the severance decrease trend. More firms should follow Fried Frank's admirable posture on this sensitive issue. The severance packages are starting to decrease, which is a welcome trend. I need a new Maybach so the less we spend on severances, the more money I get. I just don't understand why the younger partners don't see this.
150, that doesn't make sense to me. Why would this burden fall on the '09s? The '10s do not have offers yet and have far more time to find a job after graduation. If a firm is going to screw students over I'd think they'd choose the students they could harm the least -- since there is no difference to them which batch of useless incomings they get. Push the '09s pack into 2010 and no-offer a bunch of the '10s.
154 - the class they could hurt the least is 2011. No-offering 2010s in this economy is career homicide.
155, rescinding 3L offers is even more so.
does it change the analysis that nearly all the associates and some of the partners who the class of 2009 worked with as summers in 2008 will no longer be at their firms? I.e. there is no one to stick up for summers they liked.
156 - that's why 2011 will bear the brunt.
152/154 et al. Why would they keep around the '09 graduating class when they do not have enough work for that class? They can just screw the '09 graduates, and use the '10 graduates who will be arriving very shortly after the deferred '09 graduates. Firms will see that it doesn't make sense to keep the '09's.
Firms do not care about you. Wake up, 154. Firms will not decide who to keep based on which grauduating class will suffer the least harm. They will chose based on solely the benefit to the firm. Thus, the firms don't care if the '10 class could cope better than '09 class because the '10 class has more time to react. The '09 class is useless surplus, and is being ditched. Even now some firms are beginning to rescind offers to '09 graduates. Expect that trend to grow and continue.
My sympathies to the class of '09. You're toast.
150
155/158 -- my point was directed at 150, who said 3Ls would get their offers rescinded because the incoming SAs, 2Ls, will take all the jobs.
-- 154
41 are down,
Bodies in the vestibule,
We pray. Who listens?
Fried Frank cut 7 from real estate and forced a rotation on one first year to bankruptcy.
162: "forced" to work in bankruptcy. that is a blessing in this market.
Jesus, 157, you are even stupider than 154, and therefore you will get a separate response. Nobody sticks up for summers, not in in this economic environment, not ever. You really are a commodity at this point in your career, judged solely by law school and class rank/grades.
150
150/159: you're confused and sewing needless panic to 3Ls. Of course firms do what's in their best interest and not what is best for law students. Great work figuring that out, Einstein. But it benefits the firms not to rescind 3L offers, but to defer them a year and instead simply not hire a bunch of people they haven't hired yet -- 1Ls and 2Ls.
150: If by some strange turn of events some of us '09s do make it, how much survivor guilt should we feel?
165: you're confused and sewing needless panic to 2Ls. Of course firms do what's in their best interest and not what is best for law students. Great work figuring that out, Einstein. But it benefits the firms not to no- opffer 2Ls, but to defer them a year and instead simply not hire a bunch of people they haven't hired yet -- 1Ls.
164: that metric was used at OCI, summer evaluations are what matters now. get a clue.
It is very tragic that another 99 employees of the 'once' great Fried Frank are joining the millions of unemployed Americans already on the streets. Fried Frank has been in a steady decline in the US and Europe and Associates and staff have been paying the price.
Why are the two chairpersons still signing memos on behalf of FF?
That would be "sowing", not "sewing".
Cheers.
150, 3Ls, 2Ls, and 1Ls and first year associates are all useless surplus. You are focused on 3Ls. Why on earth do you think they are the target and not any of the other baggage?
171 = useless surplus
165, Deferring the'09 graduates is not without cost. (Look at the payments offered to deferees to date.) Also, deferring the '09 past a certain point means that the firm will have a "double class" (the '09's and the '10's will both essentially be first-years at the same time). That is a costly burden (most clients don't want to see first years on the bill). Plus, it creates a larger junior "bulge" than most firms want.
The '10 class will face a tough market, but the '09's are just in the wrong spot at the wrong time. That's why firms are deferring (some offering dates so far in the future that its hard to believe that those people will ever start). That's also why firms are beginning to rescind '09 offers. Sorry, its just the facts.
By the way, its "sowing panic," not "sewing panic." You can thank me later.
150
No word from Goodwin or Wilmer?
Boston be sinking....
Posters 150 through 173. All law students, or associates who are under 40. This is not the first recession, boys and girls. The legal market will resize, as it has before, and some will lose jobs and some will lose offers. But the sky is not falling. Some firms are still hiring. Others are laying people off. But you all need to cool down.
well said 175.
171,
You are correct that 3L's, 2L and 1L are all useless surplus. However, the 3L's are the useless surplus that have the bad fortune of being at the firm's front door right now. Unlike the 3L's, the firms can wait and see how they will deal with the 2L and 1L useless surplus when they arrive later.
150
174 - why is it necessarily bad for firms to be taking their time in deciding how best to proceed? Also, no word from K&E or Bingham either as far as I've heard.
I'm cool as cucumber.
V10 Stud
Hey 173 - it's IT'S not its. You can thank me now.
175, I am familiar by experience with the recession of '91, and what law firms did then to survive. You should know that this downturn is substantially worse. Yes, there will be a new dawn, but that recovery will not happen in time to help the '09 graduates, which is the point under consideration. It may help the '10 graduates, who will be the ones to take those jobs, not the '09's.
150
ya, I'm sure all biglaw is gonna tell YLS, HLS and SLS '09's to go take a hike so they can wait for a new set of TTT's to start in fall 2010. Sure.
150, 181
I lived through the '91 recession, as well as the 1970s recession. Thanks for the education, though.
175
I am and will continue to be forever cool. Now suck on this Skadden prestige, bitches.
You are all idiots.
What the comments have ignored thus far is that no large firm will see the loss of 09-11 students as career suicide. you are kidding yourself if you believe that. sure, not all law students are created equal, but with the right training and gunner mentality, the 2 or 3 that will make partner in a decade will not be substantially better or worse than those at a peer firm that didn't "commit career suicide". take a deep breath.
Sad to see all these law students worried about whether their firms will be pushing back their start dates or if their summers have been shortened a couple of weeks. The sad reality is that any law firm that brings in any summers or 3L's in this environment is pure crazy. There are Harvard grads on the street with real experience who would be happy to take several weeks of summer work or a start date in 2010, if it was guaranteed. Unless you are truly stellar (and 99% of you are not) then you should be out flipping burgers for a year or two and wait for the legal market to pick up. If any of you are 1L's at anything other than a very top tier school (and even then you are probably screwed), you should quit now and cut your losses.
The recession is back on, bitches!
For my next act, I will take your wealth and redistribute it to the high school dropout who gets paid more than a first year associate to drive the same screw into the same hole 7 hours a day on the GM assembly line.
Give me back that fillet-o-fish!
150 = useless troll
175 = someone with perspective
To defer or not defer that is the question? 3Ls have been lied to and left in the dark all year long, and now if we defer, we look like the losers or slackers, but really, it's our insecurity of the financial health of the firm in general that propels us in the direction of the deferral - to do some "real lawyer" work. Some say: "Start in Jan, get big firm experience." But, seriously, what kind of experience are we going to get, wondering when the next round of layoffs is coming. Maybe $70k now is not such a bad idea, when so many other firms are dissolving all around us. Question is - do you have to pay it back, if you decide to move to Mexico indefinitely. :)
What are people's thoughts on deferring if you're heading into litigation (white collar) v. deferring if you're heading into corporate? (for those firms that make separate offers for separate departments) Is there really more available work in litigation or has it all dried up?
150 et al... so far all firms are delaying start dates, reducing summer class sizes (for 2010 graduates already and it seems obvious that they would also reduce the size for 2011 graduates even further), and will most likely limit the number of offers to summer associates this summer. With all this, 2011 is being set up as the lost generation. One firm even announced that it is deferring start dates for 2009 associates to 2010 and will end up deferring start dates for 2010 associates until 2011. To avoid deferring start dates for 2011 associates until 2012, they will most likely not have a 2011 class or a very small one.
190/191:
Don't defer! The people who defer will be those who will have their offers rescinded in the next round. Get working at the firm as soon as you can.
192, the majority of the deferees will never work at the deferring firm. A deferral is a just a layoff in slow motion. Its like when a factory cuts a shift and puts the laid off workers on a "call up" list in case the factory should ever need to rehire. Those law firm first year positions that are being deferred aren't coming back. The smartest thing a deferree can do is look for another job. The 2009 class is just screwed.
What if the firm gives YOU the choice to defer or not - with no (obvious/external) pressure in your practice area?
Has anyone voluntarily deferred yet? If so, I'm curious about the terms of the deferral agreement. If you decide not to return, do you have to pay back the stipend? Is there any additional guarantees that you will have a position in late 2010? Same question as 190, if you find out that you are more suited for a bohemian lifestyle, win the lottery, or marry some millionaire who helps you to become VP of whatever at daddy's company, what happens?
195, then why would you defer in that scenario? Start as soon as they'll let you. Do anything else and you'll just have a big ol' bulls-eye target on your back when the layoffs come.
132, what have you heard about dickstein shapiro?
165/167: "sewing needless" was pretty funny, but I'm sure this display of your illiteracy was unintentional.
194 - If that's the case, then that answers the question for 190/196. Take the money and run, right?
This might be helpful. Most firms require repayment of bar stipends if an associate leaves within 12 months. These deferral stipends might be different though as the firms are probably hoping the associates do not show up in January or Fall 2010.
http://www.abovethelaw.com/2008/05/associate_life_survey_everythi.php
For the love of Goodwin, tell us our start date/stipend information, please.
199: there are typos in many, if not most, posts here. Doesn't make anyone "illiterate." Get over yourself and contribute the discussion or STFU already.
For all talking about deferrals: all of these posts about what deferrals really mean and who is the most screwed are just guesses. Don't panic. Start feeling around for other job options, as a back-up plan. Doing that will help take your mind off the wait, and can't hurt if the worst happens.
To defer or not defer.
Frms can fire any of these 09'ers at any time. If a firm offers a lump sum payment to defer, it may be prudent to take the money and run. If the job is there in a year, great, if not, you've just been paid for a year -long job search/post law school sabbatical.
* gasps * Yes, I typed "sewing" rather than "sowing." I must be illiterate! Good call there, 199. You discovered my secret. Because clearly, we all proofread carefully when we are posting comments on blogs. And commenting on typos is a great use of time. Certainly a better use of time than, say, discussing the merits of people's comments.
Still say firms are not likely to rescind 3L offers. Some, *perhaps*, but not all. The legal market is faltering but it is not, contrary to ATL and the panic-mongers, collapsing completely. 3Ls are no worse off than anyone else. And anyone posting here isn't in a position to know a firm's real plans anyway. The people who are don't have time to post.
-- 165
203 - and if you decide not to take the job after a year because you found something better and more secure during the year off or your life just changed drastically for whatever reason and it does not make sense to take it anymore? I am sure that everyone will be searching for a backup, but if the right opportunity comes along, do the incoming associates have to choose between risking a good opportunity or losing the stipend or will they have the option to say, thanks for the stipend, but I will not be starting ever?
138:: No information at this point but a partner said they're doing a "continuing assessment" of their needs.
43: AMAZING.
Posters have not given you enough credit.
People....check back at 43 and sing the lyrics in your head.
I'm not sure why Goodwin is being targeted as a firm that has not announced anything. Out of the V100, less than 25% have announced anything publicly or at least nothing has leaked yet. Based on the latest round of delay announcements, some of the firms that made announcements early may actually adjust further.
Okay, already, so what's the lowdown? Who was fired?
FF got 99 problems but a bitch ain't 1. Hit me!
JayZ
sing the lyrics to which tune, 207?
To Partner Emeritus:
I empathize with your Maybach concerns. My proposal: the initiation of a "poverty tax" to punish those workers who don't contribute enough to the economy. Let's tax all those earning below, I don't know...say $250,000, at the punitive marginal rate of 69%. Individuals who earn above this amount will be taxed at 15% on all income, capital gains or wages. This will serve as a reverse-Laffer curve inducement to work and produce more. Meanwhile, the taxes reaped from those low-earning layabouts could be put into a "rewards fund" geared to providing Maybachs and the like for the true producers of our society. Maybach, perhaps, could even produce a special John Gault edition to honor the rewards recipients.
To Partner Emeritus:
I empathize with your Maybach concerns. My proposal: the initiation of a "poverty tax" to punish those workers who don't contribute enough to the economy. Let's tax all those earning below, I don't know...say $250,000, at the punitive marginal rate of 69%. Individuals who earn above this amount will be taxed at 15% on all income, capital gains or wages. This will serve as a reverse-Laffer curve inducement to work and produce more. Meanwhile, the taxes reaped from those low-earning layabouts could be put into a "rewards fund" geared to providing Maybachs and the like for the true producers of our society. Maybach, perhaps, could even produce a special John Galt edition to honor the rewards recipients.
Does anyone have any idea what Goodwin is up to? Five offices in California, and also Hong Kong and London in the last six months. Attorney count doubled in the last four years. They must be hemorrhaging money. How many of the 99 Boston 2008 SA’s received offers? How many accepted? How many have been revoked? What about stealth layoffs? What about first year associates? Rumors out of Boston and NY offices indicate that another round of layoffs is imminent. This next round will supposedly include partners. (It’s about time, since more than a few are deadweight that came from Testa and other CA firms.) I think that a Goodwin thread is needed.
Does anyone have any idea what Goodwin is up to? Five offices in California, and also Hong Kong and London in the last six months. Attorney count doubled in the last four years. They must be hemorrhaging money. How many of the 99 Boston 2008 SA’s received offers? How many accepted? How many have been revoked? What about stealth layoffs? What about first year associates? Rumors out of Boston and NY offices indicate that another round of layoffs is imminent. This next round will supposedly include partners. (It’s about time, since more than a few are deadweight that came from Testa and other CA firms.) I think that a Goodwin thread is needed.
@43 - That sucked, even for you.
Sincerely,
Your Mother.
3 no-offers to the Boston SA's - not sure about "cold offers" but I heard rumors. Zero revoked thus far as far as I've heard (am I wrong?). Maybe 15 going a'clerking. I heard there were maybe 30ish stealth layoffs from Nov - Jan. Don't know about anything else for sure.
207, it was better in German.
211 -- 99 red balloons
There's a reason why Matt Morley left.
Can we please get an update? Were the layoffs immediate or were the people given working notice? Severance? Departments? Has FFHSJ been able to kill all leaks? Where is the info? Fleisher is no longer performing (Shine is the new corporate rain maker) and litigation has never had a client base. What is going to be the next step?
give me that fish...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xD64OhbG4ps
what is going on at Howrey? I have friends there who are very worried that layoffs are looming.
223 - Howrey's fine. Litigation's fine.
Fried Frank friends: I know that you were scared today when you were in office. But, please, update us when you get home tonight.
Severance was 3 months. Need to be out by tomorrow.
You missed it ATL:
Milbank delayed start dates for their entire incoming first year class until January 2010.
Can you show us a list of firms with start dates?
Why has no one's name been removed from the website?
Was "Heinous" smirking and enjoying it?
I know many litigation associates who are sitting around with nothing to do. Legal budgets slashed = slowdown in litgation. Litigation nor IP are immune.
Housekeeping staff completely wiped out. Some secretaries and attorneys too.
231, um yes, I think there were 41 attorneys.
They fired first years. About 8-10 of them. Seemed like they picked them at random.
They gave 3 months severance, paid over 3 months. They have to pack up tomorrow.
Real estate was hit hard.
I felt like they picked some good and proven performers. It was weird. I think office politics played a role.
212-213. Brilliant! A Republican's ultimate wet dream!
Does anyone know specifics about the layoffs at FFDC? Partners? Associates? Staff?
To all DC associates, DC staff, and NY staff who were laid off today: I am sorry that this happened to you and I wish you the best of luck. I hope you quickly find new jobs in much better working environments.
236=FF Partner
1-Big Law, as we knew it, is permanently kaput.
2-Big Law firms are dinosaurs with tiny brains that DO NOT DO what is really in their best interest. They are too busy feeding the partners to notice they are eating their own body parts.
3-The law schools that pay for their university medical schools with law students' tuitions are in for a shock when people with brains conclude that the crisis in Big Law is permanent and stop applying.
#236, why not the NY associates?
so - DC lost associate attorneys and staff; NY just staff?
1-Big Law, as we knew it, is permanently kaput.
2-Big Law firms are dinosaurs with tiny brains that DO NOT DO what is really in their best interest. They are too busy feeding the partners to notice they are eating their own body parts.
3-The law schools that pay for their university medical schools with law students' tuitions are in for a shock when people with brains conclude that the crisis in Big Law is permanent and stop applying.
To all DC associates, DC staff, DC paralegals, NY staff, NY paralegals, and any attorneys and other personnel in foreign offices who were laid off today: I am sorry that this happened to you and I wish you the best of luck. I hope you quickly find new jobs in much better working environments.
obama pay my mortgage whats a mortgage
So NY attorneys are safe. Maybe they are trying to eventually eliminate all offices except NY. Everyone knows the DC office was always considered to be a sucking chest wound to the NYers.
Did DC get harder than NYC?
Why would NY lawyers be safe? They said 41 associates over NY and DC, and only 7-8 were fired in DC, so that would leave quite a few NY associates out in the cold.
Does Fried Frank even have a New York office? I thought they were headquartered in London?
I have yet to meet anyone who is impressed that I used to work at Fried Frank. Sigh.
PLATFORM!!!!!!!
I have nothing at all personal against management, but that speach to associates was piss-poor. Aside from saying the words "platform" and "important" 100 times each, she could have at least actually discussed what happened. Or perhaps acknowledged how much it must blow to be laid off in the worst job market in history, and how some partners dissented against the decision, and how the firm is looking for a merger partner.
Thx.
My heart goes out to all those affected today. Some great attorneys were laid off. I was really surprised (shocked even) at some of the departures.
I'm not angry at anyone personally. It is what it is. But I second 250 - firm management could have addressed associates with an actual statement. That gibberish we got was ridiculous. For all we know, there is more to come...
Craig Miller keeps a lot of porn in his office.
This is a shout out to the laid-off DC housekeeping staff. T, Angie, and Pat, you rock! I wish you all the best. You will be in my prayers. -CEP
"Dear all"?
@252 lol
Also agreed with 250 - feel like I dropped a few IQ points at that firmwide meeting.
What partners dissented?
Are they really looking to merge? What evidence is there of that?
I heard partners were axed too. Who?
Can someone confirm whether FF fired first years? See 233.
-Incoming FF'er
Note that 41 attorneys is just about exactly equal to 10% of Fried Frank's U.S. attorney workforce (or closer to 14% of its U.S. associates).
A handful of first years were laid off.....at least 10
250 nailed it.
As far as I can tell, regarding support staff, they axed the second and third shift (and weekend) paralegal coverage and are using a separate research department to handle the overflow. As always, they were careful not to discriminate, but instead fired a wide swath. Mostly, but not exclusively, older, experienced workers. No doubt if work picks up, they will just hire kids out of college to do the work at less than half the cost. FF seems like a perfect microcosm of our country in general right now. The Partners (the well-to-do) are gutting the Support Staff (the middle class) in an effort to sustain there high cost of living. Of course, as we can see in the world around us, how well that model works. And even though this economy sucks right now, it's feels so much better being on the other side.
DC office lost some 1st year associates, housekeeping, one accounting person, one paralegal. Also some secretaries, most of whom have been there for years and are on the other side of 50.
Based on the comments above, it appears that FF is seeking a merger partner. I don't understand how this would solve anything in the short term, unless FF merged with a firm that is stronger at the present time. But why would a stronger firm want to merge? Firms have already cut costs to the bone, and it is hard to imagine any benefit from synergies in the near term since almost all practice areas are slow or dead. At best, this would be a more long term plan to join forces with a firm that has more corporate clients and a stronger litigation practice. A firm that has these attributes but lacks a strong transactional or asset management practice might be a good match.
FF has developed strong relationships with banks. When the banks are struggling now, it is a no-brainer that FF is having a very difficult time. Without a roster of corporate clients and strong litigation practice, FF must be suffering more than its peer firms.
252 - You hit the nail on the head. Craig Miller is a total pervert. Porn everywhere!!!
I love it!! Name those names.
Workers of the world unite.
Peter Golden M &A partner-fired
Marty Ginsburg -retired but under duress
Lois Herzeca M &A partner-fired
Schiff announced today that it was shortening the summer program to 8 weeks and moving the start date for incoming 1st years back to January, 2010. No big surprise considering Schiff already laid off 15-20% of associates and 10% of secretaries.
270 - bet you are wrong about L.H. (she is an important partner) and think you mischaracterized M.G.--he's like 80, was an of counsel, and his wife has cancer.
270 here-Nope not wrong, bet you a five dollar foot long? 8 dollars in Kosher form.
They should really just get rid of the useless partners like Bill in Lit, and that fat fuck David Morris.
Sandy K and Stu K left but weren't forced out
270 here-Nope not wrong, bet you a five dollar foot long? 8 dollars in Kosher form.
They should really just get rid of the useless partners like Bill in Lit, and that fat fuck David Morris.
Sandy K and Stu K left but weren't forced out
Oops double posted but FF has a lot of useless partners that should have been dealt with years ago, and yes CM loves the porn. LOL at that comment.
We should only name names of the perverts.
Way too many too list 276! I remember the good old days with SF before he went to K & E.
Fried Frank has always been a crazy place to work. It would be better off to just shut the whole place down. Some or their partners are totally dysfunctional.
278,
Welcome to Biglaw. How many normal partners are there at any firm. Most of them are not normal to begin with, and those that were normal at some point have been driven into dysfunction by the long hours and stresses of the job.
Forgive me for being dense. But why is any law firm continuing to hire summer associates and first years at the same time they're laying off current lawyers and staff? For the sake of appearance--so clients don't panic that the firm's failing and bolt? Or to protect the firm from potential suits for breaching a contract of promised employment? Thanks.
Forgive me for being dense, but I don't get it why law firms are still hiring first years and summer associates at the same time that they're laying off currently employed associates and staff. Because they're afraid clients will fear the firm's failing and leave? To protect against potential lawsuits for breach of contract to new associates and summers? Does it save that much money to lay off slightly higher paid firm lawyers in order to hire completely green, new attorneys as first years? Please enlighten. Thanks.
Forgive me for being dense, but I don't get it why law firms are still hiring first years and summer associates at the same time that they're laying off currently employed associates and staff. Because they're afraid clients will fear the firm's failing and leave? To protect against potential lawsuits for breach of contract to new associates and summers? Does it save that much money to lay off slightly higher paid firm lawyers in order to hire completely green, new attorneys as first years? Please enlighten. Thanks.
P.G. sent out a firmwide email today about some article.
L.H. has got a couple new deals she is staffing.
I don't believe you.
Is it true the secretaries have a raise freeze for 2009?
The attys were always looked at as the "life blood" of the firm but it's apparent that attys who are laid off are not looked at that way either.
#270, 272: 270 may be right about PG. Are you a past atty or secretary No. 270, can you tell us?
The HR director needs to speak to her staff about leaks to secretaries. We normally would not care but they have access to all personal information about employees also.
Yes, we heard a secretary say she heard from a friend in HR.
Word is out that supposedly the secretaries will be told next week salaries are frozen for 2009. As for 'leaks', the walls at FF have always had ears. Stop the leaks in FF? What is kinder to have leaks looking out for each other so one can be prepared for what is coming their way or have no leaks which permits FF to hold their 'surprise parties'?
#286 - Absolutely no staff member in HR should have access to anyone's personnel records. If the HR director does not keep the files of all personnel under lock and key and opened up only on an 'as needed basis' by them or someone else in authority they should be fired.
270 here, neither, but closely related to a former partner, P.G. is a very close family friend.
FYI - Secretaries were already told last week that 2009 raises are frozen.
#270: You said you are related to a former partner but then why would you curse D. Morris and how do you know about CM porn? You sound more like someone who was laid off.
#288, yes we want layoff leaks. Our point is that we don't trust that the same person in HR won't give out personal info also (if they have access) to others who they see after work.
270 here-Have friends who were laid off from FF, know people who still work there, also know D.M and CM from spending a lot of time at FF in a non work context. If I was able to give more detail it would make more sense, but it would also identify myself too much.
#293, one can certainly understand your concern about anyone giving out personal information they may be privy to. However, it is a very serious action for one to do and one would think the consequences would be swift. Just because a staff person has information about a layoff or frozen salaries does not mean they are privy to personal information.
May I point out by your saying a ..."person in HR"...you may well have just lost a very valuable source in giving heads up to associates and staff alike when they are about to be surprised with serious life/career changing actions.
#270, you have certainly caused someone concern over how you know who was laid off. FF's MO has always been to let the partners take their time and find another firm to move onto and the appropriate high accolades are said about the Partner when it is sadly announced the Partner is leaving FF. Quite unlike the humiliation and embarrassment Associates and staff suffer who are put out.
270 here-Yes I know all about the FF way and think it's a messed up way to run things. I've sent tips in trying to expose what was going on in regard FF the firm which "doesn't fire attorneys" which is such bs since people I care about were fired.
Their lack of transparency goes beyond most law firms and I agree staff and associates take the brunt of it, not only doing much of the work but taking the hit when things go wrong.
I've never worked there, I wish I could say how I knew all this stuff , but over the years my life has been very much affected by FF.
270 - LH doesn't make sense because she actually has the corporate clients the firm wants and needs. Can you elaborate?
PG is not surprising because few have even seen him before.
Finally, is this CM stuff for real or a joke? And why do you say BM and DM are useless?
298-PG, I don't think most people have seen him, do you know anyone who has? I've seen him, but not at FF...brilliant guy though.
M & A department is from what I've heard having issues, power struggle, AF loosing his grasp on power, a lot of relationships being affected by having the wrong friends. Were you there when Steve F was? Plus an overall lack of deals coming in.
There was the Merck thing but they're a longstanding client/former FF attorney who didn't make partner works over at Merck. LH is one of the names I heard, I've never met her, one of the few M & A partners that I haven't met.
Go look in his office and find out...
I first met DM when he was an associate so that's going back a while, smart guy but huge tool. Many people refer to him as a bit of a joke. There's much better lawyers there, Dave Shine, Phil Richter, etc.
BM is kind of a dinosaur, long drawn out way of speaking, archaic, I know someone who switched from Litigation to Corporate due just to that.
270 here again-just wanted to add that Spendlove as I'm sure most people who work there know has caused a lot of issues with his unfulfilled promises.
In the downturn the drive to create an international law firm has hurt FF a lot, too many offices, not enough work, and associates and staff are the ones to take the biggest hit. You have staff who've been there for decades getting laid off.
Seems that a disproportionate percentage of FF attorneys who have been laid off during the past several months are women with children. FF strategy was to "quietly" let them go, so it would not be noticeable that this group was targeted.
Seems that a disproportionate percentage of FF attorneys who have been laid off during the past several months are women with children. FF strategy was to "quietly" let them go, so it would not be noticeable that this group was targeted.
#301 - Interesting comment considering FF touts itself as being named as one of the top firms for women lawyers.
Does anyone know the true count of lawyers left at FF worldwide? In one section of their site they say 'approximately 550..." and in another they say "650."
#301, #270 here, I'm sadly not surprised by that, while FF has as 303 points out touted itself as a great firm for women, well to be blunt that's total bullshit.
Compared to other firms the number of women partners at FF is considerably lower. If mentioning Val's kids played soccer around the office is a plus for women, well how well adjusted do you think those kids are?
To be honest my feelings are no Partners' children should be 'fair game' for discussion or speculation on any blog sites.
304, I'm pretty sure all three of those kids went to Ivy League schools and are doing quite fine, don't talk about stuff you don't know shit about.
The issue was is FF one of the top firms for working mothers, as it touts itself to be. It was stated that FF has been quietly laying off women lawyers with children. What FF states is not always the truth, which has been proven over the past..
My point wasn't about a specific child per se, rather the idea of FF and the bogus notion that they're a super place for women. FF is the one who put forth the image of Val in an article which was about women in the legal world as a whole.
As the offspring of a partner I respect FF kids privacy and appreciate what 305 said.
i think the point of any such article would be to acknowledge and celebrate the fact that FF had a female chairperson, something very hard to find. not necessarily saying: WOMEN COME HERE, but rather along the cliché that "if she can, you can".
Agreed 309. It always boggled my mind the maternity leave policy of firms in general, if they're not reducing expectations or billable hours then it really is a moot point, though it sounds good in papers. Smoke and mirrors.
http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=ind_focus.story&STORY=/www/story/05-06-2009/0005020622&EDATE=