Nationwide Layoff Watch: Texas is Starting to Look Like It’s Part of America After All
Well, it appears Texas is starting to feel the burn of the global economic recession. And that is not good news at all. We received word from Baker Botts today that the firm has decided to fire attorneys. This is from a firm wide email that just went out:
We initially hoped that by imposing a hiring freeze last year, we would be able through attrition to match staffing levels to the business environment. The recession has been so deep and long lasti ng, however, that we regrettably have also had to reduce our lawyer and staff levels through selective layoffs, particularly in those areas most impacted by the reduction in demand. This has been a painful process for all of us involved. The individuals affected by these reductions are our colleagues and friends, and they have performed admirably for the Firm and our clients over the years.
The memo does not contain the overall number of people the firm will be letting go. Our sources tell us that the cuts will affect “around 30” attorneys. We don’t have any information on how deep the staff cuts will be. There is also no word on how these layoffs will affect incoming first years.
But don’t get us wrong, just because layoffs are coming to Texas, doesn’t mean that Texas isn’t maintaining its Texas sized sense of pride:
Back in 1933, when the Great Depression was at its peak, many who worked at the Firm feared what the year had in store for them. In January of that year, then-Managing Partner Walter Walne wrote a memo to partners dedicated to that topic. The closing paragraph of that memo is timely, relevant and speaks eloquently across the decades about who and what we are at Baker Botts:“With the character and ability possessed by each person in the organization; the splendid spirit of cohesive team work that we know exists; the inspiration that comes from the efforts and lives of those who have gone before; the idealism which our creed and our traditions instill, we face the new year resolutely and with the assurance that in our hands the standard of this institution will not be lowered and that our forward steps will not falter.”
We date our Firm’s origins back nearly 170 years, to just after Houston was founded and when Texas was still a nation, not a state. We have been through the U.S. Civil War, two World Wars, the Great Depression and countless recessions, and together, we will get through this.
Update (4:19): We are now getting reports that Baker Botts is offering a three month severance package, but associates have to pack up and leave by tomorrow night. It looks like most associates were prepared for the news when the arrived to work this morning. According to a tipster:
When I go to work this morning and noticed that we were losing our free parking, I knew we were in or a long day.
Read the full statement after the jump.
BAKER BOTTS — MEMO — “FACING CHALLENGES IN 2009
As 2009 progresses, there continues to be much uncertainty about where the national and global economies are headed. What we do know is that businesses around the world have been challenged to respond to the effects of a recession that is of unprecedented depth and breadth. Many of our clients are struggling to deal with these challenges, and I am sure virtually all of us have friends or family members who have been affected as well. No one seems to have good visibility into when the recession will end, but most economists are now suggesting that it will last at least until 2010, and that the recovery may be very slow.
I believe the Firm entered this recession as well-positioned as any major law firm anywhere. We have a diversified practice. It is focused on our clients and their businesses rather than a single practice area or financial product. Our offices are strategically located to be responsive to client needs, and we have a reputation for client service=2 0and excellent lawyering that is second to none. We also have a strong balance sheet and a conservative approach to our financial affairs. But we are learning, as are other law firms and service businesses around the world, that we are not immune from the effects of the recession.
Just as our clients are struggling with budget cuts and a reduced demand for their products, so too has the overall demand for our services declined. This decline began in the fourth quarter of last year, and while certainly not threatening the long-term viability of the Firm, is nonetheless significant. It definitely is not “business as usual,” and our review of the situation and the responsive actions we believe are necessary will be ongoing throughout the year.
In connection with our budgeting efforts this year, we looked hard at all aspects of our business and reduced expenses wherever possible, while at the same time keeping an eye on not compromising our ability to provide excellent lawyering and client service. I know many of you are already beginning to feel the effects of these reductions, and I ask for your support and good will as we work through these issues. We initially hoped that by imposing a hiring freeze last year, we would be able through attrition to match staffing levels to the business environment. The recession has been so deep and long lasti ng, however, that we regrettably have also had to reduce our lawyer and staff levels through selective layoffs, particularly in those areas most impacted by the reduction in demand. This has been a painful process for all of us involved. The individuals affected by these reductions are our colleagues and friends, and they have performed admirably for the Firm and our clients over the years.
We are committed to treating all of our employees with fairness and dignity during these very difficult times. I recognize that many of you may be facing financial or other difficulties, and I want to take this opportunity to remind you of services available to you:
* All of our offices are dedicated to providing assistance to employees in their time of need. Please contact your local Partner in Charge or Director of Administration should you have emergency needs.
* We have a very successful Employee Assistance Program (EAP) that is available to every employee. This free and confidential benefit is designed to help you deal with the everyday stresses of life.
Back in 1933, when the Great Depression was at its peak, many who worked at the Firm feared what the year had in store for them. In January of that year, then-Managing Partner Walter Walne wrote a memo to partners dedicated to that topic. The closing paragraph of that memo is timely, relevant and speaks eloquently across the decades about who and what we are at Baker Botts:
“With the character and ability possessed by each person in the organization; the splendid spirit of cohesive team work that we know exists; the inspiration that comes from the efforts and lives of those who have gone before; the idealism which our creed and our traditions instill, we face the new year resolutely and with the assurance that in our hands the standard of this institution will not be lowered and that our forward steps will not falter.”
We date our Firm’s origins back nearly 170 years, to just after Houston was founded and when Texas was still a nation, not a state. We have been through the U.S. Civil War, two World Wars, the Great Depression and countless recessions, and together, we will get through this.
Thanks to all of you for all that you do, for each other, the Firm and its clients.
Walt Smith




Comments
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LOL at the Baker & McKenzie logo
Abandon all hope.
First (on this post) to say that Elie is an idiot. That's the Baker & McKenzie logo, moron....
In other news, Botts was traded for McKenzie. Niiiiiiiiiiiiice graphic.
Elie, are you even trying? Baker & McKenzie logo for Baker Botts story?
Wrong Logo!!!
Fix the logo
What 3 said. Epic Elie.
mysTTTal
Wow. Just wow.
Breaking news, Baker Botts has now merged with Baker & McKenzie!
Oh, wait, just Elie getting distracted by the thought of Bakers (mmm... pastries).
C'Mon Elie, geez...
It's hard to miss, what with the name Baker Botts practically right next to the logo.
3500 sq ft and a wife!
Baker Botts Spuds McKenzie
The mixup is just histarical. Honestly, did you even graduate highschool Elie? I'm beginning to think your Ivy league education is nothing more than a big, identity theft farce.
The mixup is just histerical. Honestly, did you even graduate highschool Elie? I'm beginning to think your Ivy league education is nothing more than a big, identity theft farce.
TAKE THE B&M LOGO OFF THIS POST, NOW!!!!!!!!!
Nah don't worry, Baker McKenzie will be up soon
Nitwit
The way I read this memo (which was too long, by the way) it sounds like it's an acknowledgment of cuts that have already been done. But then again, clearly Elie didn't pay that much attention to it.
After the logo mix up I'm all for forgiving Elie's loans. No way this guy should've ever pursued higher education.
elie, these are bad economic times. this logo mix up is horrible. it's business libel. you give hls and minorities a bad name. i can no longer defend you against the mysTTTal jokes.
if count layoffula were visiting you it would be a performance based event.
Any news on the David Polk layoffs?
3500 sq ft and a McKenzie, bitches!
Chuck Norris for President of Texas! Roundhouse kick America so hard Texas drops out of the Union! Jefferson Davis for Vice-President!
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52823
Lexis in Texis!!!
Please tell me that the logo mix-up was a joke. A bad one, but a joke...
Elie, I don't usually agree with the RACIST BASTARDS that usually bash you on this blog, but they are right on this one- the logo mix-up is tragic.
Please tell me that the logo mix-up was a joke. A bad one, but a joke...
I wish people would lay off my wife. Things are just bigger in Texas.
The first draft read as follows, prior to the Yankee editing:
"We date our Firm's origins back nearly 170 years, to just after Houston was founded and when Texas was fighting the dirty Mexes and before we were hoodwinked into joining the Union. We have been through the War of Northern Aggression, kicked the Huns' asses twice, outlasted many a Yankee jackass politician, and together, we will get through this. With our guns and our pride we shall remain.
WAR TEXAS"
I kind of like the B M logo. It reminds me it is time for a B M.
Please tell me that the logo mix-up was a joke. A bad one, but a joke...
Any news on the David Polk layoffs?
15/16 -- what's hysterical is that after two tries, you still couldn't spell it right. did YOU graduate from high school?
Why is ATL so slow to cover Texas layoffs? K&L Gates had big layoffs last week. Winstead had some pretty significant cuts two weeks ago. Gardere has been shedding associates and partners (in corporate/banking groups, at least).
I have it on very good authority that Baker&McKenzie are laying off associates and staff.
any news on Blank Rome?
"We date our Firm's origins back nearly 170 years, to just after Houston was founded and when Texas was still a nation, not a state. We have been through the U.S. Civil War, two World Wars, the Great Depression and countless recessions, and together, we will get through this. "
Er, well, not we, since some of you will be canned to maintain PPP, but you know what "we" meant, right you out-of-work associates and income partners?
THIS IS A LIE!!!! ALL LIES!!! 30 attorneys is a drop in the bucket -- it's like less than 4% of BBs' attorney workforce. Given that every decent manager (even lawyer managers) knows that if you're gonna do layoffs, so them big all at one time, it's obvious that this tiny number is just BB using the crisis as an excuse to get rid of the fat. Everyone here can easily point to 30 people at their firm who probably don't belong.
I applaud BB for at least not calling them performance based. But this tiny "layoff" does not reflect an serious weakness at BB (compare to Latham or Orrick). Out of 740 lawyers, 30 is nothing. DPW probably stealth laid off double that before lunch today.
Baker & McKenzie has already conducted some stealth layoffs in Texas that I haven't seen reported anywhere.
Now that the mix up is fixed, Elie could at least issue an apology.
Just as Tucker Max pushed Duke down in the US News rankings...so should Elie push down Harvard. Only time will tell...
QUINN REFRAINS from comment
Steers and Queers.
No one cares about Texas. *Flush*
Lexis, 3500 sq ft and a wife, bitches!
Texis
Maybe Elie mixed up the graphics as an ode to thelawyer.com which reporting Baker & McKenzie layoffs.
Botts and McKenzie should break away from Baker's tyranny to start their own firm. Hostetler, you're not invited.
re: #40
Per Nalp, BB has about 430 associates. Cutting 30 of them is roughly 7%, which is about what other firms nationwide have been doing.
Are Texas women really that fat or is it just a rumor?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KQunYCAklI
Was "team work" as a phrase used in 1933? I think that Depression-era memo is a hoax. Who keeps records that long? Seriously.
Uh, no 49, they have above 700 attorneys per NALP....
Fulbright is laying off.
Elie: not your finest hour. I hope that old coot Partner Emeritus returns and gives you some flak.
Baker & McKenzie has already conducted some stealth layoffs in Texas that I haven't seen reported anywhere.
Lulz at 53's inability to understand the difference between partners and associates.
This would never happen in Ft. Worth
This is a huge mistake considering the Dow has been on its way up for 3 days, signalling the end of the recession.
To 55: I would like to issue an apology for the ruminations on this internet weblog of a Mr. Chester Shackleford, perhaps better known to you as "Partner Emeritus". While the Firm, as an acknowledgment of Mr. Shackleford's past contributions to the Firm (from September 1947 to March 1979), permits him periodic access to the Firm's common areas, he holds no official title with the Firm and is not permitted to make representations to the contrary. On behalf of the Firm, I wish to offer my sincere gratitude for your kindness and generousity in providing Mr. Shackleford with a warm and nurturing environment. He will not trouble you again.
WTF 51?
53 = Reading comp pwnd
Any word about BB start dates?
Whenever I hear about impending layoffs, and I start to feel a little sick, I just stop being sick and be awesome instead.
True story.
I have 2500 sq ft, a slightly obese wife, and an Acura. Is that prestigious enough for Dallas?
You realize that I write in HTML and don't actually *see* the graphic until I post it. Obviously, I made a mistake by filing the Baker McKenzie and Baker Botts logos "Baker.gif" and "baker.jpeg" respectively. I've corrected the error.
It's called a mistake. Sorry,
--Elie
TL;DNR
TL;DNR
Dudes, chill. It is not as easy as you think to pound out three paragraphs of incisive wit and cut and past one document and one image every couple of hours to say nothing about the pithy headlines.
I think it was funny, Mr. Mystal. Fuck Baker&McKenzie and the fat Texas wife it rode in on!
1400 sqft, an Infiniti and a cute techie nerd husband!
- Silicon Valley
Fulbright has been laying off for over a year.
Don't mess with Texas!
Ellie: Fulbright and Winstead.
Elie, when I make a document distribution to my clients, I can't see the files I'm sending. They are just attached to my email as little word files with numbers on them. But I ALWAYS open up the files before I send so that I can confirm the right docs are attached.
I don't think your mistake is the worst thing in the world, but most of us biglaw associates that are still working get reamed out for every typo and wrong attachment. Just part of the world we live in...
God Bless Texas
God bless affirmative action, because we wouldnt have a harvard educated person running a second rate blog (yes, this is not nearly the top dog anymore) entertaining us as we wait for the ax to fall.
Affirmative Action...where numbers not talent matters.
Any news about V&E?
"Sir, you can't park your van on the diving board."
"That's my son."
Oh, sorry. All right everyone, it's ok. Its not a van, just some fat kid."
My advice to the partners of texas law firms who are conducting rounds of terminations: wear plenty of kevlar. A weak and emotionally distraught associate coupled with liberal gun ownership laws is not a good mix. Remember, if you hear shots, hit the floor, prick yourself on the chest with a letter opener, clutch the wound and close your eyes. Doing this will increase your chance of survival by 50%.
Bracewell Giuliani has also been doing stealth layoffs since last fall
So after writing the documents in html, Elie doesn’t preview them to see what they will look like online before he posts them? That actually explains a lot.
what's v&e's deal?
Baker Botts is all hat and no cattle.
These mistakes Elie makes are clearly on purpose. The ATL staff used to call them "Easter Eggs" but changed after Elie ate a second computer monitor.
Elie: Understandable mistake in context. Go get 'em.
(But I still hope Partner Emeritus shows up, I like his schtick).
-55
p.s. 60 -- once was enough. You're just a killjoy now (and it gets old quickly).
V&E?
tips on v&e???
V&E?
I would get that V&E looked at and probably inform all of your sexual partners.
Your Gym Teacher
each one of you critical jerkoffs is probably in the midst of some horrible doc review because you don't have any real legal skills. learn to take a depo or try a case, biyatches.
The ship be sinking...
Let's get some news on V&E, please!!!
3500 sq ft and a Halverson!
Here I sit,
My buns a flexin',
I just gave birth,
To another Texan.
78/83/88/89/93,
Shut. The Fuck. Up. If there's news, you will hear it.
- V&E associate
to 49 - BB has approximately 800 attorneys
http://www.bakerbotts.com/
3500 sq ft and a MULE!
96 - there is news but hasn't gotten out yet . . .
Dear 97:
Not all attorneys are associates. Some are partners. Others belong to a nebulous category called "counsel" or "of counsel."
Generally it is the associates that are getting canned, and so it's best to look at the number of associates getting fired relative to the number of total associates, not the number of total attorneys. HTH.
no layoffs at Fulbright
92: How far can it sink?
Wow, 96, just how high are tensions at V&E?
Still no word on location of this tipster?
Still no word on the location of this tipster? Are we talking about parking in NY or TX?
99 - what is this "news" you speak of?
The only thing important in Texas is the size of y'alls gun.
And, will you morons please stop sending duplicate (and triplicate) entries and learn how to spell. If you can't figure out how to do it right, ask your secretaries - you know, the people whose entry level salary isn't $160K, but who actually know what they're doing.
When I think Texan Wife, I think Halverson, Halverson....
56 - they are reported @41...
Commenters on another thread were reporting that Baker & McKenzie may be laying off offices soon. Any news?
Anybody have specifics regarding Fulbright layoffs?
950 sq. ft., hot actress wife, s-class.
-NYC
950 sq. ft., hot actress wife, s-class.
-NYC
I work at Fulbright. No layoffs here.
I work at Fulbright. No layoffs here.
I work at Fulbright. No layoffs here.
109,
LOL. Chalk that up to the website hanging when I tried to comment and me stupidly refreshing .
When people say to me: would you rather be thought of as a funny man or a great boss? My answer's always the same, to me, they're not mutually exclusive.
There haven't been any Bracewell layoffs, but the handful of people let go like to tell themselves its the economy.
103 - 96 here. You got me - not actually an associate. I just can't understand why V&E is constantly discussed in the comments.
We also fought to keep our slaves!
Baker Tater Totts
Does anyone know how things are going at Jackson Walker?
Wasn't someone just commenting yesterday that Baker Botts had little layoff potential because they are conservatively managed firm, not nearly as leveraged as NYC firms, etc., etc.? When half the world's wealth evaporates in six months, no firm is immune.
119,
I'm sure the economy had NOTHING to do with it. Abso-smurfly nothing.
I like how Elie isn't even man enough to apologize or update in the post. I'm usually a defender, but really, the excuse and the refusal to man up is just sad. You can preview just as easily when writing in HTML as when using a WYSIWYG interface. Epic fail. I hope Baker&McKenzie sues.
Baker Botts is a wonderful law firm. I had the privilege of working there for a time while located in Houston. There historically is little deadweight at Baker Botts, so I take this on faith that these layoffs are not performance related and are indeed a reflection of the economic depression we are in.
105, Houston.
126,
You should take B & M's case on contingency and see what happens.
Two kids and a Porsche 911.
-NoVA
123 - JW will be trimming the payroll. If BB has to cut a few, then the BigMex firms (JW, TK, HB, etc.) are in trouble.
They'd rather lay off hard working attorneys than lower rates or PPP. It is a business and not a profession anymore. It's sad.
I'm curious to know the racial and gender make-up of the canned attorneys. I suspect BB is mainly letting go women and other minorities as usual. While the white guys sit back and collect their record profits.
"together, we will get through this."
"Together" you dumba$$? Except for the attorneys who you just canned. They''ve got to get through this on their own.
131, what do you mean by BigMex firms? Are you referring to firms with a presence in Mexico? Or are you insinuating those firms are a lower tier in Texas than the BigTex firms?
Either way, I think comparing JW to TK or HB is unfair - JW is not in the same league. JW is basically a slightly bigger and slightly higher paying Winstead.
4000 sqft, an Expedition, a Chevy Tahoe and a Ford pick-up, a wife, four kids, parents, grandpa and an RV
- Detroit
Were all of the attnys from TX or did they cut from the NYC/DC offices too?
what about Jones Day and Hunton?
what about Jones Day and Hunton?
Three wives with HIV, dirt cakes for dinner, and a Voodoo curse.
-Port-au-Prince
135, agreed. HB and TK are BigTex, Winstead and JW are BigMex. Heard that TK will be letting folks go in the next week or so and Hunton canned a few in Dallas.
- 131
135, agreed. HB and TK are BigTex, Winstead and JW are BigMex. Heard that TK will be letting folks go in the next week or so and Hunton canned a few in Dallas.
- 131
HB and TK are not in the same league as BB & VE. Not. Even. Close.
143, is absolutely correct. The two major Texas firms are BB & V&E. F&J isn't even in the same league.
Spot on 143. I think 135 has a bit of an inferiority complex. Working at HB or TK can do that to you, though. Maybe this will help clear things up.
BB & VE > FJ >>>>>>>> every other Texas firm.
Spot on 143. I think 135 has a bit of an inferiority complex. Working at HB or TK can do that to you, though. Maybe this will help clear things up.
BB & VE > FJ >>>>>>>> every other Texas firm.
143, BB and VE are definitely in their own league in terms of prestige and PPP as far as Texas-based firms go. But HB, TK, Bracewell, and AK (and Fulbright, to a lesser extent...) are other strong firms in the state that can give BB and VE a run for their money when the whole picture is considered. In fact, every one of those firms has a much better firm culture than BB Houston (unless you like a humorless group of awkward nerds and loser guys that have never been cool but now have a BigLaw job and have surrounded themselves by enough nerds that they've tricked themselves into thinking they're hot shit), and associate pay at all of them is almost the same.
And among those second tier firms, there are also some that are on the upswing and pulling away from the pack (HB and Bracewell) while others that were once powerhouses are falling behind (TK, Fulbright).
143 - 146, then why are BB and V&E losing clients to "every other Texas firm"?
Other than Harry Reasoner, there isn't an attorney at V&E worth $800/hr.
145/146- I actually don't work at HB or TK. I'm a 2L who will be working at VE this summer.
144- Fulbright is no better than any firm in TX that pays market - their PPP last year was lower than HB, AK, Bracewell, and TK, I believe.
149: what the hell does a 2L who has never even worked at a firm know about TX firms? all the law students on this site should do everyone a favor and refrain from commenting about firms (except recruiting stuff -- cuz that's all you know) until you actually know something about working there.
149, I'm not an expert but I know a good amount as nearly everyone in my extended family has worked at a major Texas law firm for their entire career.
baker boots is imploding - good riddance. it is a racist and sexist firm
151 here..... meant to address my post to 150 in case that wasn't clear.
152 = laid off minority female.
151 - seriously? You're going with the "my daddy is a partner" defense? You don't even know how little you know until you start working (and no, summers don't count).
I agree with your assessment of the culture at BB Houston. I'd rather eat glass than attend one of their office functions. But I have no idea where you get the idea that Hayboo and Bracewell are "on the upswing?" I'm not saying they're in any particular trouble, but they certainly aren't "pulling away from the pack."
That said, 148 is right. BB and V&E are losing MAJOR clients left and right to MidTex (we've got three tiers in Texas: BigTex, MidTex, and TexMex--there's no such thing as "BigMex").
155, please name 5 MAJOR clients that BB has lost to MidTex, and to which MidTex firm the MAJOR client was lost.
156 - Well, since you asked so nicely.... no.
If you work at BB or V&E, or if you work at one of the MidTex firms that have been poaching their MAJOR clients, you wouldn't have to ask.
Fact is, firms are in bidding wars for the largest clients/matters these days, and GCs are far less willing to pay a premium for "prestige" in the middle of a recession.
155/157: You are completely misinformed. I work at one of V&E or BB and know what I'm talking about.
155 - Are you saying that I couldn't know what I'm talking about because I don't work at a firm yet? If so, does working at any firm in Texas give you knowledge about all of them? Or just about the particular one you work at?
Bc I don't buy the argument that simply working at a firm gives you knowledge about all of them. And if you only know about the firm you work at, then you and I have the same amount of personal knowledge about HB and BG and rely exclusively on our contacts in the legal industry to make assessments of particular firms.
And I'm glad we agree about BB Houston - I think just about everyone in the city agrees on that (including the normal people at BB). As for HB and BG being on the upswing, I think if you look at where these firms were 20 years ago and where Fulbright and TK were 20 years ago, it becomes pretty clear that HB and BG have evened the playing field. And if that continues, then HB and BG will clearly pull away from the MidTex pack. Do I ever think they will be in quite the same league as BB and V&E? Probably not, but do I see a breakup of MidTex into multiple levels? Yes.
157, you can't make claims and then not provide support for such claims--law school 101. Now, please name some of the MAJOR clients you speak of.
160, I'll answer your demand:
Firms are seeing their billable hours from existing clients drop by a rate of one per cent a month, according to a study by LexisNexis’s Redwood Think Tank, which surveyed a group of eight law firms of varying sizes in the US and the UK. The law firms were Baker Botts, Bryan Cave, Kilpatrick Stockton, Lowenstein Sandler, Morrison & Foerster, Osborne Clarke, SJ Berwin and Thelen.
http://www.thelawyer.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=136016
- not 157
PS - 157 nailed it. GCs have stopped paying for prestige as they see their budgets shrink in this recession. Maybe your firm will figure it out or maybe another firm will steal your partner's clients. Either way, change is comin'.
To #81...
Im pretty sure Bracewell had its best year ever last year (2008)...
To Others...
Fulbright has been a sinking ship for 4-5 years now.
BB is still considered the most prestigious firm in Texas and V&E is a close second. They are now the "Big Two." Fulbright should not be mentioned in that group anymore.
Just take a look at the firms summer classes to get a good picture of the health of any law firm (within texas or without).
We all need to work our asses off, stay late, and ask for work...so we can keep our jobs and ride it out. Lets hope Obama just stops speaking and the stock market will continue to go up.
158 - I'm not "misinformed" because I'm speaking from personal knowledge. You can deny it all you want (and I can completely understand why BB and V&E would deny that they are hemorrhaging clients), but that doesn't change reality.
159 - Working at a firm doesn't give you knowledge of all of them, but it gives you a better understanding of the information you have or things you observe about all of them. And you may find, once you've spent some time in the middle of a law firm with all of its attendant bullshit, and once your schoolmates have, too, the numbers and facts and rumors you once thought were important and/or true are... not so much.
160 - This is a freaking blog, not an appellate brief. Even if I named names, what are you going to do? Call the firms involved and ask if that client recently jumped? I'll assume you work at either BB or V&E. Take a peak at some of the clients your firm boasts representing on its website, see how many new matters have been opened recently.
163 - I am pretty sure you have no idea how many, if any, clients BB & VE have lost. You are just throwing things out there. You probably did the same thing in law school, which is why you could not land a job with BB or VE. Thanks for playing, but next time come to the game with you bat and balls.
162-
I agree. The size (and offer and acceptance rates) of summer classes over the past 4-5 years is pretty indicative of where firms are headed. Firms like BB, VE, HB, and BG are all growing. Firms like Fulbright, TK, LLBL, and JW are flatlining more or less.
But as for BB being the most prestigious firm in Texas, I will have to disagree. In terms of pure prestige, any difference between BB and VE is negligible. They've traded highest PPP for several years now, BB is slightly larger in numbers, V&E has had higher RPL numbers, V&E has a larger international presence, BB is stronger in NY/DC, etc. Simply put, they are both in a league of their own in terms of prestige among Texas-based firms, and differentiating the two in terms of prestige is futile.
With that said, prestige is far from the only thing that should be considered when judging a law firm or deciding which one to work at. As discussed earlier, BB Houston is a hell hole and I could definitely understand if someone chose a firm like AK over them for that reason. And I could also understand someone who decided to just suck it up and work for BB for the added prestige. To each his own.
Whatever, 164. You can play with your balls while I bill the shit out of your former clients. We can compare notes about law school at the bank when I buy your house off of foreclosure.
People can believe whatever they want. If you feel better thinking that BB and V&E are perfectly healthy and that working there is the best choice for your future, despite all indications to the contrary, fine.
I agree with 165's method, if not his conclusions - look at recruiting, look at whether a firm is hiring laterals or firing associates, pay attention if they are closing offices, if they are totally restructuring, if they are freezing salaries or cutting benefits. Every firm is going to feel a pinch from the economy, but if your Texas-based firm is already panicking like the boys in New York, you might want to ask why.
To 165
Yea...fair enough. V&E can easily be placed at the top. The Starbucks is cool, not going to lie. It is a coin flip. Regardless of which one eeks it out (which is all a matter of opinion) they are cemented as the top two. I totally agree what was said above about the perception of BB attorneys.
I agree that BB, HB, V&E, and BG are the four "hottest" Texas firms right now..and the trend looks to continue. Its funny, because last 2 summers these 4 firms shared the best talent coming into Texas (with some going to FJ)...so law students are aware of this.
TK, FJ, LLBL, JW (should this one even be included?) I also agree. TK is really trying to turn the ship around the ship with the relocation of the Dallas office, and new logo, but its hard to stop momentum. Fulbright's summer classes trailed off 3-4 years ago, so that was an omen. And the partners can't be happy with how low the PPP is compared to the other BigTex and MidTex firms. What they do have going for them still is the brand name.
- 162
167,
No, JW shouldn't really even be included, my mistake. One firm I wonder about is AK... definitely not one of the "hottest" firms in the state, but if I had my pick, I'd definitely pick AK over firms like TK, FJ, or LLBL.
And, yes, law students for the most part are aware of this... another thing that is interesting to look at is which firms in Texas can actually entice a summer associate to accept their offer when that same summer associate splits the other half of their summer at BB or VE. At least in Houston, BG seems to be the best firm in town by that measure (I believe the vast majority of BB/BG splitters last summer went to BG whereas every BB/LLBL splitter went to BB).
Dallas is a different story though since HB is the big firm in town but BB, VE, JD, and Weil all have successful offices there. HB is probably the only Texas-based firm in town though that has a real shot at stealing talent away from BB, VE, JD, and Weil. And I think the reason why HB has now surpassed TK is due to its ability to expand into different markets (especially the Houston market) with more success than TK did (which is essentially still only a Dallas firm).
167--
Yea AK should be mentioned as well. Someone above mentioned how there are 3 Tiers in Texas. I'd say AK is more deserving of Tier 2 than Tier 3.
Law students definately aware...BG won most of the BB but lost some to V&E. All four won most of the battles with FJ it seems, but FJ still has a good incoming class this summer (mostly T10, Texas, UofH, etc).
What TK does have going for them is that they are way ahead of the game in Latin America. There will probably be a big scramble among the Vault 100 firms to establish a presence there over the next 20 years. But TK is still a "Dallas" firm, I would agree with you there...and their presence in Houston is stagnant at best.
I guess Hunton is now becoming a solid "Dallas"/Texas compeitor as well, now they they took on all those J&G attorneys.
I think the Vault rankings for Texas are definately flawed...
-167
Where the hell is Texas? Is it close to CA or NY? Information please almanac?
166 - you still have not named one client. As some people like to say on this blog, you are an EPIC FAIL.
For all those saying HB will steal people from Weil Dallas, you are smoking crack. HB is struggling. They represent small fish.
V&E continues to list Enron as a client on their website. I'm sure their associates are still churning those files.
81 - you are correct, Bracewell has been doing stealth layofffs for quite some time now. They haven't chopped a significant number of associates in a single month, but there's a noticeable trickle of associates heading for the exits.
Can anyone tell me what the actual economic climate is at Hayboo and Locke Lord? There seems to be conflicting reports.
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If you believe that the stock market predicts the next coming months, looks like the economy will start trending upwards
http://www.traderbots.com/stocks/Stock.aspx?symbol=spy
Maybe we're over the worst
@176
Doubtful. The credit card sh*t hasn't hit the fan yet, not to mention the quasi-subprime stuff. There are a lot of degrees of quality of loans between subprime and the best stuff.
Perhaps most troubling: debt that *was* good until the crunch caused the debtor to lose his job.
Oh, also there's the bad school debt spent on worthless undergraduate, graduate, and professional degrees earned at TTTs.