Comments on: Open Thread: Cravath & Co. to Shorter Summers http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/ Above the Law: A Legal Web Site – News, Commentary, and Opinions on Law Firms, Lawyers, Law School, Law Suits, Judges and Courts Wed, 15 Feb 2012 01:42:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.5 By: guest http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/comment-page-8/#comment-472517 guest Sun, 12 Apr 2009 18:50:56 +0000 http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/#comment-472517 Sidley DC last summer assumed 12 weeks but allowed SAs to do as many as 14 weeks. I did 14 and I was not alone. I have no clue what they are doing this summer. Sidley DC last summer assumed 12 weeks but allowed SAs to do as many as 14 weeks. I did 14 and I was not alone. I have no clue what they are doing this summer.

]]> By: Bob_Dell http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/comment-page-8/#comment-472507 Bob_Dell Mon, 16 Mar 2009 23:29:43 +0000 http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/#comment-472507 The SA program is a uniquely American problem. This economic crisis will force many firms with any meaningful presence in the U.S. to re-think how they evaluate and hire associates. The SA program is a uniquely American problem. This economic crisis will force many firms with any meaningful presence in the U.S. to re-think how they evaluate and hire associates.

]]> By: guest http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/comment-page-8/#comment-472496 guest Thu, 12 Mar 2009 02:11:31 +0000 http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/#comment-472496 297 - 293 here. You seem to be missing a crucial distinction here. I have nothing against SAs, having been one myself. I don't blame them for taking 30-35K when some idiot firm hands it to them for no good reason. My only point was that there has to be a better way to find good junior associates than a traditional summer program. One positive aspect of a nasty recession like this is that it forces market actors to reexamine themselves and find that better way. 297 – 293 here. You seem to be missing a crucial distinction here. I have nothing against SAs, having been one myself. I don’t blame them for taking 30-35K when some idiot firm hands it to them for no good reason. My only point was that there has to be a better way to find good junior associates than a traditional summer program. One positive aspect of a nasty recession like this is that it forces market actors to reexamine themselves and find that better way.

]]> By: guest http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/comment-page-8/#comment-472485 guest Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:58:23 +0000 http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/#comment-472485 THIS IS SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. THIS IS SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

]]> By: guest http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/comment-page-8/#comment-472474 guest Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:54:27 +0000 http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/#comment-472474 wait for it... wait for it…

]]> By: guest http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/comment-page-8/#comment-472465 guest Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:09:47 +0000 http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/#comment-472465 PAUL WEISS TO 13 WEEKS OF GLORY! PAUL WEISS TO V5! PAUL WEISS TO 13 WEEKS OF GLORY! PAUL WEISS TO V5!

]]> By: guest http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/comment-page-8/#comment-472455 guest Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:13:34 +0000 http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/#comment-472455 I can tell you right now the associates griping about summer associates are huge douchebags who deserve to get fired. You people are the reason everyone hates lawyers. Stop bitching about the SA's. Guess what assholes, we WERE SA's not too long ago, draining firm money on our lavish lunches and events and not doing work. Get off your high horses. Eliminating a summer program probably saves enough money for like 10 jobs. When firms are laying off hundreds of people, it's not the summer program that is the problem. IT is YOU. In 2-3 years when new blood is needed, the firm's summer program pays for itself. However, having you languish right now at nearly 200K a year when you aint doin shit is a WASTE of money. I can tell you right now the associates griping about summer associates are huge douchebags who deserve to get fired. You people are the reason everyone hates lawyers. Stop bitching about the SA’s. Guess what assholes, we WERE SA’s not too long ago, draining firm money on our lavish lunches and events and not doing work. Get off your high horses. Eliminating a summer program probably saves enough money for like 10 jobs. When firms are laying off hundreds of people, it’s not the summer program that is the problem. IT is YOU. In 2-3 years when new blood is needed, the firm’s summer program pays for itself. However, having you languish right now at nearly 200K a year when you aint doin shit is a WASTE of money.

]]> By: guest http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/comment-page-8/#comment-472444 guest Wed, 11 Mar 2009 05:45:19 +0000 http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/#comment-472444 Interesting points from the associates above, esp. 293/295. Knowing we're worthless, and knowing that nobody is ever billed for our "work", what would you recommend SAs do with their time? Obviously trying to meet the right people, and showing an interest when projects do come along, but beyond that is there really anything else SAs can do other than staying out of the way? Interesting points from the associates above, esp. 293/295. Knowing we’re worthless, and knowing that nobody is ever billed for our “work”, what would you recommend SAs do with their time? Obviously trying to meet the right people, and showing an interest when projects do come along, but beyond that is there really anything else SAs can do other than staying out of the way?

]]> By: guest http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/comment-page-8/#comment-472433 guest Wed, 11 Mar 2009 05:11:52 +0000 http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/#comment-472433 278 - fact is that most clients will not pay for SA work (no client w/ any sophistication at least). Thus, SA work is written off. I've never seen a bill that billed out a dime of SA work. -- most partners write it off. However,. clients would pay for an associate to do the same work. We can do it faster. That said, I'm not sure SAs really "steal" time from associates. Most of the time, associates are told to go back and double check the work, explore other research trails, etc. So, I'll spend the three hours it would have taken me to figure out an answer reviewing and checking an SA's work (which took the SA 20 hours or so). Another point -- associates may hoard work, but most assigments for our SA's come from partners. Associates are asked to come up with projects, but the responsibility rests w/ the partners. I can't hoard work I don't get (but hopefully, I'm getting too senior so work I can do won't get given to a summer!) 278 – fact is that most clients will not pay for SA work (no client w/ any sophistication at least). Thus, SA work is written off. I’ve never seen a bill that billed out a dime of SA work. — most partners write it off. However,. clients would pay for an associate to do the same work. We can do it faster.

That said, I’m not sure SAs really “steal” time from associates. Most of the time, associates are told to go back and double check the work, explore other research trails, etc. So, I’ll spend the three hours it would have taken me to figure out an answer reviewing and checking an SA’s work (which took the SA 20 hours or so).

Another point — associates may hoard work, but most assigments for our SA’s come from partners. Associates are asked to come up with projects, but the responsibility rests w/ the partners. I can’t hoard work I don’t get (but hopefully, I’m getting too senior so work I can do won’t get given to a summer!)

]]> By: guest http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/comment-page-8/#comment-472422 guest Wed, 11 Mar 2009 04:15:46 +0000 http://abovethelaw.com/2009/03/open-thread-cravath-co-to-shorter-summers/#comment-472422 276 -- If that's what you have to believe to feel better about yourself, go right ahead. But seeing as you have never worked full-time as an attorney at a law firm, let alone served on any law firm's summer, recruiting, hiring or managing committee, it is clearly obvious that what you say comes from your HOPE of how things are, rather than how things ACTUALLY are. Come back and post when you've actually served on one of those committees -- by then you might have some credibility when it comes to knowing what firms "want". 276 — If that’s what you have to believe to feel better about yourself, go right ahead. But seeing as you have never worked full-time as an attorney at a law firm, let alone served on any law firm’s summer, recruiting, hiring or managing committee, it is clearly obvious that what you say comes from your HOPE of how things are, rather than how things ACTUALLY are. Come back and post when you’ve actually served on one of those committees — by then you might have some credibility when it comes to knowing what firms “want”.

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