Testmasters has no choice. The value of their program is in the IP (though the books are carefully constructed to be as worthless as possible) and college students are generally cheats and will pirate/copy for their friends anything they can.

Better to overstrenuously protect their IP than to have it be stolen. And btw, the agreement not to resell the books is really prominent when you sign up so I don't see how anyone could claim innocence.

Let's all give Grey a call!

Viva la revolucion!

Off the top of my head, there is probably a valid contract claim against the seller as long as they drafted their enrollment agreement is well drafted. First sale protects any of her actions not prohibited by the contract, though, and most of the claims recited in the letter as bullshit.

If you failed the MPRE, you probably have a life.

F THE MPRE!

How about a shout out for the immense number of laterals who have just taken the Feb bar! I would think lateral bar taker numbers have soared given the layoffs happening all over the country.

We need an open thread on length of law firm summer programs. I know that Gibson just reduced their program to 10 weeks, Kirkland's at 10 and Sherman's at 9....

Hypothetically speaking, lets say that I go and make a whole bunch of listings on Craigslist offering to sell Testmasters materials (despite never taking the course nor owning any materials)...who thinks I would end up getting said angry email?

Any fun thoughts for what to do after I get it?

I'm not copyright maven, but I think the first sale doctrine may prevent enforcement of these kinds of contracts where the copy is in a physical medium. Any copyright attorneys here?

Where's the intellectual property again? The books are being sold - not copied. Maybe Testmaster's can say the ideas that went into drafting the text is IP, but the actual text of the IP is not IP. Is Grey McIntosh a lawyer?

He should ignore that TestMasters letter. It's bullshit.

I'd like to see how Testmasters tries to get around sect. 109(a) of the Copyright Act for the sale of the books.

I second 8, lets at a summer length thread!

First sale should protect you and allow you to sell the physical books.

I don't think he was planning on doing anything else?

If you fail the MPRE, you are (1) stupid or (2) lazy.

um 11, ever heard of distribution? That's a copyright issue.

Robin,

I love you. But seriously. Threatening to report people to the State Bar? If you want your IP back, you need to give someone an incentive to bring back the materials. The only viable claim you may have is breach of contract. I'd like to see what happens when you sue a former student. Not the best PR.

In addition to a summer length thread, how about a summer class size thread? I want to know what firms are ridiculously oversubscribed and will be no offering

All you need to know...

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/102/test-prince.html

How do you spell d-bag? R-O-B-I-N

5 here, with an updated comment Wikipedia says "Some U.S. case law allows manufacturers to restrict the first-sale doctrine by a clickwrap contract or other agreement. The case law is conflicting, however, and the legality of allowing first-sale doctrine rights to be abrogated by contract has been questioned." I am too lzay to do any actual research, but that's the issue you need to address to find out whether or not they have any claim. However, if I did this and got a letter like this, and I had the time, I would send a letter to all of these places and the Better Business Bureau asserting protection by the First Sale Doctrine and just try to generally try to stir shit up about TestMasters. Anyone sending a lame demand letter like that with all those threats deserves to have his bluff called.

I violated the Law School Admissions Council once. Each and every one of them. It was naughty.

All test prep companies do this. I know Princeton Review does. Whether it would hold up in court or not is another issue, but who would seriously ever litigate this?!

Granted, requesting that the books be returned "by courier" is a whole another obnoxious step. If you want them back, at least pay for the freakin' shipping, TestMasters.

To the First Sale crowd,

First sale does permit further 106(3) distribution of a protected work. However, contract between Testmasters and ________ may prohibit alienation of the materials. Copyright law pre-empts pretty much everything else under 301, but K law stands tall and usually survives absent K of adhesion, etc.

Also, I don't see where the letter indicates that the materials were actually distributed -- so maybe they're (they being testmasters) are making their claim under Hotaling or the "making available" theory of distribution advanced by the RIAA (i.e. offer to distribute = violation of 106(3)).

I don't understand the DMCA claim.

-Lars Ulrich

PMBR tried this crap after I resold my PMBR books on ebay. At that time (not sure about now) PMBR did not have anything that you signed agreeing not to resell the books. They had their ridiculous buy back program where they would let you sell them back their books for some ridiculously small amount (I got way more on ebay).

I reported PMBR to ebay for interfering in the auction improperly and misuse of ebay's emailing system. It was just some random lackey from PMBR trolling ebay with a username and emailing and threatening sellers.

Whoever was running the username was not a lawyer (or not a very bright one). They didn't seem to understand the first sale doctrine, which I felt ironic for a bar exam test prep company. Once I argued back, they totally left me alone. I actually made a few extra bucks that summer by buying PMBR and other bar prep books and reselling on ebay.

TestMasters are STUPID HUMANS and only have a contract claim. (Maybe.)

- No copyright violation per first sale doctrine. (And trumps distribution right, 17, you retarded human).

- No Lanaham Act/Trademark violation per resale of legitimate (non-counterfeit) goods.

- No DMCA (para-copyright) violation as no 'anti-circumvention' of a 'Technical Protection Measure' has been circumvented.

Oh, and suck-it TestMasters.

http://paragon2pieces.blogspot.com/2009/02/testmasters-blueprint-litigation-comes.html

After a lengthy trial, the jury came back with a verdict on Monday, February 2nd. They found liability on some causes of action and no liability on others. With regard to damages, the jury awarded Testmasters only a very small percentage (about 1%) of the damages that they were seeking. There are still some small unresolved issues, but we are very happy with the jury's verdict. According to Testmasters' own account, they have spent many millions of dollars on this lawsuit and we must suspect they are not pleased with the outcome.

Blueprint is well able to discharge fees associated with the verdict and we can now say that we strongly believe there is no reason our business will be interrupted at any time in the future. Blueprint is here to stay and we will continue to offer the best LSAT preparation at a lower cost than our competitors. Viva la Blueprint!

fuck testmasters

Is it true that Testmasters guarantees a 10 point drop in your score by test day?

I agree with CHOMPERS.

22 beat me to it. That's schamazing.

Where is this summer length/size thread everyone keeps talking about?

Kaplan has something similar in their books, I believe, as well as something in the contract you sign. Or at least that's my recollection. They can both suck it, there is nothing particularly novel or proprietary in their books. As an earlier commenter pointed out, they make the books as useless as possible in order to force people into attending their class.

Also, my girlfriend gave me her TestMaster books. Should I be worried about Grey knocking on my door?

I think the best response to make sure the whole world knows that TESTMASTERS THREATENS TO SUE AND INTERFERE WITH THE BAR APPLICATIONS OF ITS FORMER STUDENTS.

I think the best response to make sure the whole world knows that TESTMASTERS THREATENS TO SUE AND INTERFERE WITH THE BAR APPLICATIONS OF ITS FORMER STUDENTS.

I think the best response to make sure the whole world knows that TESTMASTERS THREATENS TO SUE AND INTERFERE WITH THE BAR APPLICATIONS OF ITS FORMER STUDENTS.

32 -

It is a violation of Testmasters' terms of service to give Testmasters' IP to your significant other. Please provide the relevant contact information for your girlfriend. If you do not comply within five (5) business days, we take further legal action including, but not limited to, serving subpoenas on Above the Law, Elie, and the poster known as 32.

- Testmasters

lesson to law students = don't use testmasters

anyone who complains about the mpre is a moron.

When I took Testmasters in 2000, they offered a $100 return of "deposit" upon receiving the books back. I pointed out that I would have to make a 2+ hour round trip to return the books to the nearest collection point or pay most of that to pack and ship them. I was told that as long as I threw them away and faxed them a letter stating that, they would send me the $100. I did and they did. Honestly, I feel that the books without the classroom would not be very valuable anyway. But I recouped the cost of the course and then some with a 3 year scholarship to law school, based on a high LSAT, that was 60 times what I paid for the course.

When I took Testmasters in 2000, they offered a $100 return of "deposit" upon receiving the books back. I pointed out that I would have to make a 2+ hour round trip to return the books to the nearest collection point or pay most of that to pack and ship them. I was told that as long as I threw them away and faxed them a letter stating that, they would send me the $100. I did and they did. Honestly, I feel that the books without the classroom would not be very valuable anyway. But I recouped the cost of the course and then some with a 3 year scholarship to law school, based on a high LSAT, that was 60 times what I paid for the course.

Testmasters letter is BS. VERY weak legal claim (did they ever heard about this small thing called the first sale doctrine) that was rejected in the past when made. The letter itself is almost an ethical violation in itself.
That being said - who the hell uses this stuff to study for the MPRE? Use Bar\BRI like a nomal person.

Yeah - I heard Gibson, Kirkland, and O'Melveny scaled down the summer programs to 10 weeks. Elie, get your fat ass in gear and make some phone calls!

Testmasters letter is BS. VERY weak legal claim (did they ever heard about this small thing called the first sale doctrine) that was rejected in the past when made. The letter itself is almost an ethical violation in itself.
That being said - who the hell uses this stuff to study for the MPRE? Use Bar\BRI like a nomal person.

26 is right. Moreover, the contract cause of action is preempted by the first sale doctrine and the copyright act. Testmasters will have to prove that the books were not sold but licensed. Good luck with that.

26 is right. Moreover, the contract cause of action is preempted by the first sale doctrine and the copyright act. Testmasters will have to prove that the books were not sold but licensed. Good luck with that.

Did anyone else think the MPRE was harder than the sample tests? I'm sure I did fine, but I was told by BarBri that if I took all the practice tests that I'll essentially "have" the answers for up to 20 questions on the MPRE. I didn't get any of that love.

--Nervous and UnMPREpared

(did you see what I did there?)

46 -

"Did you see what I did there?"

Did you stick your finger somewhere it doesn't belong?

DV

47 = GULC

46; you're not alone. I guessed on 2/3 of the questions (after narrowing each one down to 2 possibilities) and I did the bar/bri practice exams as well. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I have a thought about the Testmaster's books: has anyone looked into defending on the basis of the first sale doctrine?
(Of course I don't really know what I'm talking about (what does "IP" stand for anyway?) and only said this because 20 people above me said it already, but I'm still going to pretend that I was clever enough to think of it all on my own.)

46/49 - yes, many people had this experience. I even went to that stupid Barbri videotaped lecture - what a waste of fucking time that was. The lecture and the convisier outline directly helped on like 8 questions.

Testmasters = pwned by first sale doctrine.

I too, thought the MPRE was a little tougher than practice tests. I used the new Kaplan PMBR online MPRE course, and wouldn't really recommend it.

But, did anybody else laugh out loud in the testing room when you saw the following answer choice on the question about the guy who became disillusioned with the world and decided to stop rendering pro bono legal services:

B. Andrew Attorney's refusal to render pro bono legal services does not subject him to discipline because pro bono legal service requirements violate the Takings Clause of the Constitution.

Yeah!!! Jerks are appropriating my saleable work product without just compensation!

Someone might want to mention to Testmasters that is is also an ethical violation in CAL to threaten to report someone to the bar in order to gain an advantage or settlement.

idiots.

53, I don't even remember that question. Did I completely miss a question or something?? Personally, I thought the first half of the MPRE was pretty tough, but the second half went pretty smoothly IMO.

55 - there were six different arrangements of the questions on the test.

Can you say First Sale Doctrine? The only way I can see TestMasters getting around this is if they gave the student a license to use the book, which is pretty lame. Software companies do this - that's why you can't necessarily resale software. But i'm pretty sure it's not allowed for books. Typical case of jackasses overusing their copyright.

Took the MPRE @ the Javits Center on Saturday, and I was seated right by the door. About 45 minutes into the test, some lady started talking extremely loud on her cellphone just outside the door. The proctor went over and told her to quiet down, and she yelled back "I'm the Nurse.....close the door!" The door was closed, but this jerkhole kept yelling on her cellphone. Good thing it was the MPRE...if this was the Bar Exam, I would have gotten up and yelled at the lady myself.

46/49/whoever - Compared to the book I used, the real questions on the November test were significantly harder. I was somewhat concerned about it, but still passed. If you put in a minimal amount of effort, as I did, I'm sure you passed as well.

What douchbags. It doesn't matter if you 'break' the contract, if it's even upheld as a contract of adhesion. First sale still means it's not an IP case, just a contract one.

A contract term in the purchase and sale agreement for the books that prohibits their subsequent resale is apparently enforceable. See http://tinyurl.com/4cbzt2 at pages 655-56. Hmmph.

Thank you 61.

I'm glad I quit tennis and started wailing on the double bass kit.

All morons.

-Lars Ulrich

Your welcome Lars. Now let's talk about why P2P file sharing is ultimately good for the music biz ... kidding
@dnball on twitter

46, i took the mpre in fl, and i found it to be quite difficult as well. i prob guessed on half of the questions. supposedly, the exam is heavily curved though. let's hope so. best to all.

46, i took the mpre in fl, and i found it to be quite difficult as well. i prob guessed on half of the questions. supposedly, the exam is heavily curved though. let's hope so. best to all.

46-49-51

I found your comments very true. I also went to the BarBri lecture where they said if you did all 4 practice tests, you have 20 of the questions on the exam from them. No such 20 questions on the exam! What a shock.....BarBri did not know what they were talking about or NCBEX did it to screw up BarBri. Anyway, I was a bit skeptical of BarBri's claims as only five questions repeat per exam, so if you did the practice exams, only 5 questions would be on the real exam, not necessarily 20. Anyway, it is typical of BarBri that they claim to know what they are talking about but do not really from my personal experience of taking them for both the Feb IL bar and the March MPRE. Neither the bar nor the MPRE was anything like they claimed, and the practice exams were not representative of teh real thing. I was getting an average of 52/60 right on the 4 BarBri MPRE practice exams yet felt confident about only one-half or slightly less of the actual MPRE questions. Some of them came out of nowhere like the one on the 2 attorneys dating - seems to need consent as it may affect representation but not married per the actual rule, so I could argue that one either way. Let's hope it is a try-out question. Also, the one on the bank lien -- don't recall seeing that in any of the ABA rules (which I actually read) or the BarBri CMR.

What I learned out of both exams is that BarBri does not know what they think they know. I wish I had just bought their books on Craigslist for 250 and studied on my own and not spent 3000 to go to classes that ate up time and were not very helpful.

I did one practice test, read the book for a few days and didn't go to the class. I thought the test was pretty hard (I knew some answers, but for many I narrowed it down to 2 and wasn't sure from there) but I still managed to score high enough to pass in any state.

I was pissed at myself for not prepping enough where I had to be nervous about whether I passed.

I just got my email. I got a 110. I studied for two days out of the Emanuel MPRE book.

I got a 117 and only did one practice test out of the Bar/Bri book, but I did go to the videotaped lecture

I found the March 7, 2009 MPRE to be tricky. I thought I failed. Then I got my score yesterday and I got a 127 scaled score. I reviewed bar bri, attended the lecture and went through the practice tests. All worht it. Yipee!