Pillsbury: Attorneys Brace For ‘Involuntary’ Departure Program
A week ago, we brought you news about Pillsbury’s “Voluntary Departure Program.” The firm adopted the program after partner Robert Robbins announced the firm’s impending layoffs on the Acela last month.
On Tuesday, Pillsbury informed associates who requested voluntary departure if they had been accepted. We don’t yet have the numbers for how many people decided to go quietly.
But we do have the official Pillsbury FAQ for people who inquired about the program. The seven page document contains some very interesting nuggets. Below, we paste the top line points:
Shouldn’t everybody who was employed throughout 2008 receive the 2008 bonus, regardless of what happens to them in 2009?
In any event, it looks like Pillsbury is moving full speed ahead with the “involuntary” part of the plan. All aboard after the jump.
Is Pillsbury really going to give less than three months severance to the people the firm fires involuntarily? Are they going to refuse to pay them their 2008 bonuses? You wouldn’t think that Pillsbury would want to put the people it involuntarily lays off in a worse position than other people who have been fired from peer firms. But unless they do, what was the point of the voluntary departure program in the first place?
We might find out soon enough. In what has become a recurring theme at Above the Law recently, we’ve got dreaded conference room information leaking out of Pillsbury. Rooms have been booked for Thursday, March 5th. There is nary a client-matter number to be found.
The firm did not respond to an immediate request for comment from Above the Law. But a tipster reports:
For the rest of those that opted for “involuntary reduction,” (i.e. your ass just gets laid off), looks like Thursday is d-day as there are conference rooms scheduled in offices here from 9a-12p… and HR has reserved them all.
It could be nothing. It could just be the announcement of the number of attorneys who “participated” in the voluntary departure program (see the excerpt below). But in the voluntary departure FAQ, there are a couple of answers that suggest Pillsbury wants to move quickly from the voluntary to the involuntary stage:
And there’s also this:
We’ll let you know what goes down at Pillsbury tomorrow as soon as we hear it.
Earlier: A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to New York (Or: Pillsbury associates, brace yourselves.)
Pillsbury’s ‘Voluntary Departure’ Plan
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What does this have to do with front-butt?
another layoff post - bOOOORING
another layoff post - bOOOORING
another layoff post - bOOOORING
Pillsbury seems like it would be a wretched place to work. I suppose working there would be preferable to not having a job.
Pillsbury seems like it would be a wretched place to work. I suppose working there would be preferable to not having a job.
we get it already. There is little to now hope in sight.
Maybe ATL could talk about laid-offs that get jobs and how the simple ( low paid) life builds character
The economic point of a voluntary layoff is to reduce the number of attorneys the firm RIFs involuntarily.
Duh.
The economic point of a voluntary layoff is to reduce the number of attorneys the firm RIFs involuntarily.
Duh.
I like how it's "implementing a reduction program" instead of firing people. Very positive. sounds like a good direction for the future.
can someone explain why anyone would take a voluntary layoff? do they get 1 year severance or something?
why would an associate not just wait for the axe to fall and then take the regular severance?
What does a squirrel do in the summer? It buries nuts. Why? Cos then in winter time he's got something to eat and he won't die. So, collecting nuts in the summer is worthwhile work. Every task you do at work think, would a squirrel do that? Think squirrels. Think nuts.
Am I reading it wrong or did Pillsbury ignore one of the questions in its own FAQ ("Is it any different than what will be offered in an involuntary reduction?")?
What happens if I hit the iceberg . . . voluntarily?
I think the voluntary program is a great idea. And I think PW is handling this well....considering how badly it all got started.
Among the many problems with an involuntary program, is that it doesn't consider the preferences of certain employees. Ex. Say you are a parent that wants to quit to spend more time with the kids (or whatever - you just don't want to work there anymore) - In a purely involuntary program, you might have to stay at work (which you don't really want) or leave without any severance - and the cost of someone else (who really wants to be stay) having to leave.
So if anyone took them up on this offer, I think it was worth it.
voluntary program is ridiculous in a business (like big law) built on high attrition rates. Why pay 3-6 months severance who wants to leave anyway?
Pillsbury has two bonus structures: hours based and merit based. No, you don't get the same bonus just because you work at the firm (unless you're in the NY office, as I understand it).
At least in most of the other offices, you get no bonus unless you hit 1950 hours. After that, you may be awarded merit bonuses, which have a range depending on your year.
Additionally, there are hours based bonuses at 2050, 2150, and 2250.
Hours based bonuses were awarded in Feb. Merit based normally occur in March. Generally, the policy is you must be actually employed at the time the check is written to receive your bonus.
You want to leave in January after billing 2300 hours? No soup for you.
Here the firm is actually saying, yes, you will still get your merit bonus if you "voluntarily" leave, even if the check has not been cut. I would question though whether one would have plans to voluntarily leave if they were actually capable of receiving a merit bonus in the first place ...
serious question: what happens if you are on vacation thursday and friday (or whatever day tehy decide layoofs will take place) and you are one of the unlucky people to be let go? Do they send you an email. Seriously. How does this work.
Ellie - why don't you post the entire FAQ instead of selecting bits and pieces of it and spinning up misunderstandings? One of the questions asked if there were any difference between the voluntary and the involuntary severance packages. The answer was "No, the package is the same."
But what does this have to do with Jones Day? Anyone?
Look at the FAQ's regarding the ability to get education and training as part of the buyout. I just received confirmation from HR that one of the education and training pograms that will be offered as part of the Pillsbury voluntary reduction program is "How to obtain a Plumber's license".
No Joke. This place is screwed.
16 -- What do you think attrition rates have looked like for the past 8 or 10 months in BigLaw? The business model may be built on high attrition, but the attritees have stopped attriting.
I doubt that Pillsbury's offer will change that, but we'll soon see what the numbers look like.
18: You know how partners have no problem interrupting your vacation when they want something done. Well they also probably have no problem clipping you when your on vacation.
With very few exceptions, Pillsbury will accept all-comers who want voluntary severance. Pillsbury will truthfully be able say that participation in the voluntary departure program will not, as per the FAQ's, make a material difference to the involuntary departures because Pillsbury will be looking to shed as many associates as possible. So that means they will fire as many as the can regardless of how many take the voluntary program
We might see a 30% or more reduction in associate headcount. Does anyone even know of someone who was rejected for the voluntary program?
The economic point of a voluntary layoff is to reduce the number of attorneys the firm RIFs involuntarily.
Duh.
That's what she said.
FAT CLAMS DON'T QUIT
"but the attritees have stopped attriting." Grammar police, can I get a ruling? If accurate, it should be nominated for post of the year.
I like how some people (*cough* 8, 9 *cough*) still think the voluntary reduction plan is the result of the firm being nice and trying to reduce the number of attorneys it terminates. Notice how the firm chooses its words carefully. Pillsbury talks of “introduc[ing] some measure of self-selection,” but admits in the end that “we do not expect that voluntary departures will have a material effect on the scope of the involuntary reduction program.” I called it in the first post regarding the voluntary reduction plan—the firm will determine how many attorneys to terminate independent of the number of attorneys that accept the voluntary reduction plan, and those that leave voluntarily will just be icing on the cake. Pillsbury is likely way overstaffed and looking to measures other than just firings to reduce the number of attorneys on its payroll. I’m not blaming the firm for this. On the contrary, I think the voluntary departure plan is a prudent business move. All I’m saying is that it isn’t some warm and fuzzy move on the part of a firm attempting to reduce the number of attorneys involuntarily terminated.
Does anyone know if Brad Pitt was at Bingham McCutchen today? It's being reported that he was at 2020 K street in DC. Bingham is listed at that address.
some people don't think it be like it is....but it do.
FAT CLAMS DON'T QUIT
Can you plumb a third tier toilet?
Little Sausage n' Biscuits comin' at ya, hold on people hope you got your griddles.
The Doughboy is going on a diet.
Dear 33: Yes.
I would like a study done on the productivity lost due to all of the ATL madness regarding layoffs. I find myself glued to this stupid site. The last time I was so engaged was when we were all getting unsolicited 40% raises. Oh how times have changed.
Cheer up everone. You heard it here first -- things will turn around and fast. By June the economy will be hopping. Jobs will be out there.
Now tell me, who is hiring?
Don't let the blowhards who talked up the market and economy now win by talking it down
- - Layed-off but going to get back up stronger, smarter and with revenge in sight
Assuming the voluntary program is not a diabolical plot and will be handled by the firm in good faith, an associate who knows he or she will be resigning from the firm in the short term (to take another job, stay home with the kids, or whatever), electing to participate might be a good idea because it minimizes the risk of an involuntary departure with less or no severance, or possibly not being terminated (forcing the associate's resignation with no severance benefits).
The ship sinking...
on purpose?
We have not reserved conference rooms for the purpose of announcing the layoffs. We have instead bought each attorney a train ticket and will be announcing during the ride.
just got of maternity leave. was going to quit to take care of my kid. I signed up for this program, and got approved.
Incoming 3L in san fran - just had my offer revoked. Wonderful.
42 is a childless man. No woman who just returned from maternity leave would refer to her new baby as "my kid."
Signed,
Woman recently returned from maternity leave
43 - troll.
Heard some 1L's were canned though.
Voluntary departure?
QUINN ABSTAINS
43- Wow sad to hear that.
44--I do.
--Another new mom.
41 = nicely done... very nicely done, indeed.
43: I call bullsh*t.
Thanks for the updates, Elie. Disregard 2-5, 7.
To my knowledge Pillsbury has not been rescinding 3L offers. I question the veracity of that statement.
I am at Pillsbury and have been mulling over the notion of leaving big law to pursue my life long dream of joining the circus. The 3 month voluntary departure program was exactly the push I needed.
Elie - can you find out what's happening to 3L's?
41= comment of the day
How long is the summer program going to be? I'll be at a West Coast office and need to find a subletter back east.
28-
Holding: In regard to the question before the GP, the GP holds that the use of the word 'attritee' is proper and just.
The word 'attrit' is a verb. The recipients of a verb may be suffixed with a 'ee.' The actor of the verb retains the 'r' suffix (see the following examples):
- Employ/Employer/Employee
- Lease/Leasor/Lessee
- Grant/Grantor/Grantee
Therefore, the verb 'attrit' can be modified in the following ways:
- Attrit/Attritor/Attritee
The attritor would be the actor that carries out the attrition.
55: I'll sublet your place. As long as I can rub my testicles all over your walls.
55 - you accepted a spot for the summer not knowing how long it was going to be?
58, I just want to know if the summer program is going to be cut short. I hear DLA Piper is going to an 8-week program.
58 - you going to NOT accept a job just because they haven't told you how long it's going to be?
58 = retard.
60 - yes, that seems to be a material question to ask before choosing between 2 firms.
Of course, if your only offer was from Pillsbury then you're probably screwed anyway since it doesn't look like you'll have an offer at the end of the summer.
Word at Pillsbury is that we hit our exact mark for our incoming summers so if you are summering here I would think chances are good for an offer. In fact, we are making room for you now.
44: I called my infants "the kid" or "my kid" from day 1 on. It wasn't the only thing I referred to them as -- sometimes they were "the baby" or any number of endearments. But 43 calling her baby "my kid" doesn't mean she's a man.
-- Not a new mom
61 - right on
60- I would choose the offer from the firm that told me how long the program would be.
60 = only got one offer.
62,
Shut up. Pillsbury has been a sinking ship for quite some time. Nice people, but not enough folks making it rain.
My experience with "voluntary" reductions is that they're not entirely "voluntary". The only people who get accepted for it are those the firm was about to lay off or was considering laying off. Those who the firm would clamp in irons in a dungeon if they could cannot take such offers. They'll be declined.
My experience with "voluntary" reductions is that they're not entirely "voluntary". The only people who get accepted for it are those the firm was about to lay off or was considering laying off. Those who the firm would clamp in irons in a dungeon if they could cannot take such offers. They'll be declined.
41- Brilliant comment. You slay me, man!
Dude, seriously, this Pilsbury thing is the worst thing ever. So very very bad.
Kill the Partners
By Tyrone Green and his Reggae Band
I was offered departure from Pilsbury,
but I turned them down.
Now we have no money
so we have to sleep on the ground.
I went to top 14 law school. And now I dig a ditch.
My wife she do laundry, life sure was a bitch.
But 'till we killed the partners.
Ooh we gonna make them hurt.
Kill the partners yeah.
But pay my severance first
We sing of fair reviews and equality.
But we really don’t care
we just want money money money.
We want to drive in a big black limousine.
Get so high off ganja we cant even see.
And then we kill the partners.
Ooh we gonna make them hurt.
Kill the partners. Yeah.
Ooh but pay my severance first.
When they come for my review.
We gonna wait outside.
We gonna hit them in the head with a bat
and make them cry.
And then we kill the partners.
Ooh we gonna make them hurt.
Kill the partners. Yeah.
Ooh but pay my severance first.
I have an even better idea. Place them in an easily escapable situation involving an overly elaborate and exotic death.
Just remember, if you hang in there long enough, good things can happen in this world. I mean, look at me.
Is someone who leaves voluntarily eligible for unemployment?
17 - Merit based bonuses at Pillsbury are a fallacy; it's all about billable hours. The trick is to find billable hours at The Worst Firm San Francisco. The partners who remained following Pillsbury's 2006 bloodbath are a bunch of clowns. I had a very senior partner --a lackluster rainmaker --who insisted in participating in a first-cut document review.
74 -- sr partner and doc review in the same sentence --- WTF are you talking about?!