first

First!!!!

First. And the Gibson Dunn kid needs to learn the difference between up and back--11th to 18th is back, not up, dipshit.

What's WLRK doing?

This post may wind up screwing those of us whose firms hadn't shortened but now will. Dammit.

Anyone who panics at this reality or is surprised has no connection with reality. Firms would have to be morons to not scale back summer associate programs. These programs are bloated in terms of the ratio of benefit to the firm to the pay of the SA's...and this is coming from a 2L with an SA.

lw is down to 10 weeks as well.

Milbank is still 12 weeks (for now)

woot! my firm is still at 12 and i just confirmed my dates. sorry to all those who got their weeks cut. that stinks, cravath basically just stole 6k from you.

*gives affected sa's a fist pump in solidarity*

-nervous T-10 1L
soon to be nervous 1L sa

Summer programs are a waste of time and money anyway. They could be shortened to 8 weeks and nobody with a full-time job would even notice.

dpw= 14 weeks, best not change

CravaTTTh strikes again!

Hogan & Hartson has been calling their summer class as well -- program now only 6 weeks starting June 1

CSM to V100!

If a firm said it would be X number of weeks from the start, fine. But changing things midstream really bothers me, and if it happens at my V10 i will not be able to go there with any degree of excitement

QUINN REMAINS!!!!

16, you don't really get what's going on right now, do you?

16--are you serious, or was that a joke? if serious, i also assume you like to get one project at a time and work on it to completion before moving onto something new? good luck with that at your "v10" firm.

DAAAAAAVE!!!!

16- Not being excited = no offer at the end of the short summer. Time to adjust your attitude.

Paul Hastings female summers are all being given coat hangers and being told to go into the back alley until they learn what the hanger is for.

Just remember that McDonald's offers an unlimited length summer program with very flexible hours and length. Of course, the pay sucks and it won't look too good on your resume.

18/21= i don't care. i'll do something else. don't need to work at a firm, and not interested in doing it at one that repeatedly lies.

what good is an offer when they can just pull it months later?

16--Part of being an adult is recognizing that things change. If you are going to make it in Big Law or in life you need to recognize that reality.

there goes a new suit and a flat screen TV... or two months of 3L living expenses...

Sidley is allowing 14 weeks.

T-10 1L, go swallow a T-12-gauge.

First to say 16 is a complete douchebag and will likely get noofferpwned.

- V10 associate

friends going to Latham and Ropes said theyre both down to 10 too

DLA Piper is 8 weeks.

If my firm thinks that I am passing on any work to a summer associate, they are idiots. Make it 4 weeks, give them each one pro bono project, and the top whatever get job offers for 2012.

When people are loosing their jobs by the hundreds, firms do not need to pay summer associates 3k per week to go to lunch and write meaningless memos for 12 weeks. This is one of the most sensible and least painful cost-saving measures that firms can enact. Bravo CSM. Way to inject some rationality into the legal market yet again.

22 - what is this business about Paul Hastings and women associates?

WTF, #22? What's with all the unnecessary violent comments about women on this blog?

This is the end for Cravath. No top student in future years will go there over strong 12-week firms like Stroock & Stroock.

14: bullshit.

#16=first to get fired. no offer for you fuck pants

Sidley capped it at 12 weeks last summer...hard to believe they upped it to 14 this year...

PAY CUT

22 - what is this business about Paul Hastings and women associates?

Dammit Cravath! Now all the firms are gonna do this.

Summering at Gibson-LA, no phone call (yet). *Knocks on wood*

16 needs to check in with reality. big attitude adjustment with incoming professionals, but the fact is, you need the firm MUCH MORE than the firm needs you. you are (and always will be - at least until you control some meaningful book) expendable . put on a tie and get to work.

easy solution: split that shit and take 16 weeks

As the work of entitled, trust-fund-kid summer associates is usually worthless, it makes sense to cut back their summer programs.

LOL at 16. What a pathetic clueless child. Oh, no, you wont be excited. Im sure your V10 is heartbroken.

DPW still has 14 weeks....

Seriously, what the hell is going on with Paul Hastings? Do they have a negative attitude towards females? This is getting ridiculous.

I see that people are still having trouble lowering their expectations to match the current state of the economy.

A 10 week SA gig is still pretty nice.

Let's see. I'm a student. You are going to pay me a ton of money all summer long. And now you tell me that you are going to give me a couple of "spring breaks" at the end of the summer? Sign me up!

(Note: obviously, I recognize the economic implications of the cutbacks, but look at the bright side!)

Summering at Gibson LA--check your voicemail...

should be 8 weeks. enough time to evaluate. will be a stressful summer for summers. better come to work hard. offers will be hard to come by at some firms.

SKADDEN dc down to 3 days -- with no lunch on the 3rd day.

22, lol, i love these posts

Cahill is 11 weeks

16 -- "degree of excitement" about going to work at a "v10" ?!? wow. yr in for degree of surprise.

36 hahahahahahhaha.... I really hope you were kidding. Either way, I got a big laugh at that.

Kudos to Cravath for once again doing SENSIBLE, economy-minded things to cut costs in this terrible economy. Lower bonuses, shortened summer programs, and (slightly) delayed start dates are very cost effective, and are NOT the end of the world. They are minor inconveniences... something anyone should be happy about when everyone ELSE is getting fired. Cravath is a leader in good times and bad, and should be commended,

Mickey Rourke starred in 9 1/2 Weeks.

not really a shock, but white & case also shortened their summer from 12 to 10 weeks.

#16 is too busy right now briefing every case and sleeping outside professors' offices to know what's going on the world. #16 will go to his/her eightweek program, lacking all enthusiasm, and get no-offered. Then #16 will cry for weeks, finish law school without a job, and afterwards go on a year long journey of "self-exploration" around the world, paid for by mommy and daddy. When #16 is about 40, #16 will finally grow up. Or number #16 was joking, in which case the above will be the fate of anybody who nodded along with #16.

re: Paul Hastings

http://abovethelaw.com/2008/05/paul_hastings_farewell_email_a.php

10- You are a fucking idiot. "Cravath just stole 6k from you." Are you out of your mind? Kid, its time to wake up. The days of socially inept litte freaks like you who feel entitled to a job are OVER. Just keep your head down, keep studying and maybe, just maybe, the firm who was stupid enough to hire you as a sa will be solvent when you graduate. That being said, if they've surrounded themselves with people like you the prospects are probably not good.

#27 was likely talking out of his ass. Sidley capped it at 12 weeks last summer. Given the economic climate I would be shocked if they don't scale it down to 10.

In fact, the summer program is such a waste of money for the firms they should all scale it back to 6 or 8 weeks. This should be corresponded by a drop in what I see as outrageously expensive law school tuition.

Can any 2L here name the top five grads of their schools from the years 2003, 2004 or 2005?

How about just 2006 or 2007?

Just how "organized" do you believe law students are that they can threaten a multi-million dollar law firm with a boycott from people who are currently in college? Hell, students in top law schools are so cutthroat, they can't even represent to these firms that they'll be boycotted by members of their own study group.

39 -- I don't think Sidley's Chicago office had any cap for summer 2008, but I could be wrong. They definitely didn't have one for summer 2007.

The summer program is ridiculous and doesn't make any sense economically in this climate. ALL firms should cut it down to 8 weeks, substantially reduce the lunches and events, and reduce the salary. $3K per week for enjoying life and going to events is absolutely obscene in this economy (while the firm has to fire trained associates to keep costs down).

Most 2Ls are sensible enough to realize that these cost-cutting measures are necessary.

OCEANS RISE

CITIES FALL

QUINN - ah, fuck it

At least the hangers at Paul Hastings have the firms logo on it so it is kind of like a summer keepsake. I like that. Say hello to your mother for me ok?

Summer associates have plenty to be thankful for. In this dire economy, we will still put up with the cloak and dagger courtship of your souls, albeit for a shorter time, which will be a relief to the staff and most of my partners. Most of you summer associates should be thankful that you will be compensated over $30,000.00 for a limited engagement. Consider that there are many households in America that don't even earn $30,000.00 for a full year in honest wages. In the past, most summer associates complained that they wish time was on their side to enjoy the summer. Now you have a full month to do whatever it is snot nosed children do these days during the summer. And now you complain again? This proves my point that this generation of would be lawyers are nothing more than sniveling brats. Understand that to me you are nothing more than expendable human excrement. In fact, I have made recommendations to the Firm to reduce annual compensation to first year associates from $160,000.00 to $115,000.00 to reflect the demands of the current market. If you don't like it, then I will recommend the hiring committee to abandon recruitment efforts at the top 6 law schools and concentrate more on schools like Vanderbilt or Iowa that in my opinion produce an equally smart pedigree of attorneys with less emphasis on the ego and self-entitlement demeanor. Be very thankful that you will have something to write about for 10 weeks this summer and pray you get an offer. And when you see me walking the halls this summer, get the hell out of my way and do not dare look into my eyes!

LAYOFFS RISE

SUMMERS FALL

WEIL REMAINS (at 12 weeks)

Willkie Farr is paying above market for 12 weeks.

$3300+ weekly salary for SAs.

No joke.

Incoming Summer Associates:

We, the remaining associates at the firm, would like to welcome you to the firm. There is almost no likelihood that we will give you any billable work and will not recommend you to the partners in any manner because we are trying to simply survive at this point. When, at the end of the summer, you are evaluated and it is determined that you did no meaningful work and made no meaningful contribution over the summer, you will not be given an offer. Tough shit and sorry to see you go.

The Associates

So the Skadden Atlanta rumors are not true?

36 and 58:

Stroock & Stroock & Lavan cut its summer program to 8 weeks this summer. Summers have a choice of two summer start dates.

guys in my high school used to summer at cravath for 10 weeks all the time. it was no big deal.

Sidley DC allows you to pick how long you want to work -- between 10 and 12 weeks.

14: bullshit

Fenwick to 8

73: Don't worry you will have been laid off long before the summer is over.

4: That is what happens with Gibson Dunn takes on 2Ls who go to top schools but know nothing. The only reason they got there was they learned how to take a test, which means nothing in the real practice of law.

latham at 9 and 1/2 weeks (w/ Mickey Rourke)

41 -- search for Paul Hastings and find the previous post about a women who was fired shortly after her miscarriage.

14, you serious?

To add to the list, Proskauer is down to 10 weeks.

I'm noticing that for every or almost every one of these Mystal posts, "firms declined to comment." It used to be that the editor here could a least get something like "in light of economy/client expectations/moving to a new building, we are shortening our 2009 summer program."

Do firms decline to comment because this subject is particularly sensitive or private? Doubtful. Do they decline to comment because Mystal has not earned any credibility and the staff here relentlessly attacks Biglaw management and never once gives it the benefit of the doubt, or even a permissible alternative view?

Yesterday, this site posted all about the MLB deferral program with Elie's "interpretation" of an initally non-public email. He twisted the words, blasted the firm, and then backed it all up by suggesting that MLB's "no comment" meant "you're so right!"

For the last 2 weeks, this site (Kash) has been blasting out fear-mongering, unsubstantiated "stealth" layoff posts about Kirkland and other places. What makes you think Kirkland will diginify you with even a cursory comment now?

When I click the Shearman & Sterling link, the last 4 or 5 posts are unflattering descriptions of layoffs. What does Shearman owe you?

Yesterday you couldn't spell "Davis Polk & Wardwell" correctly, not even on the second try.

At the end of last year, you rediculed Cravath for giving out smaller (although market, which you failed to understand) bonuses than Skadden. Well beyond the (initially funny) joke's life, you continued to refer to Cravath as "Half-Skadden" in posts totally unrelated to bonuses.

Well, Mystal, it looks like everything has finally come full circle. You can hate on Biglaw for being short-sighted and opportunistic, but you are no better. You've burned every bridge the former editor carefully built. For you, the name "Half-Lat" would be a joke because it is a great, great overstatement of your talents.

Show a little tact and respect to people who have worked hard and are going through a tough time. Write a light post that highlights a Biglaw attorney, and mention the firm and its strengths. Ask for comment before you fire out another typo-ridden post, and don't assume "no comment" means "you're right," "we're hiding something," or "we're scared."

Licking the Cravath is $5oo extra.

80-possibly, but you won't be getting an offer

This would never happen in Texas.

3500 sq ft and a wife, bitches!

Everyone lay off 16. He accepted a 12-week summer offer. If his prestigious V-10 cuts it back to 10, he should just go do something exciting like volunteer for the PD's office, or see if last summer's judge will have him back. Everything will end well.

-- The Ghost of 3L Recruiting Seasons Past

63-right on. 10, you are a douche bag. As a 1L, you ought to be praying you end up so LUCKY by landing a summer associate gig this fall via fall recruiting. But, then again, it probably wasn't luck that got you a 1L summer associate job. You probably (a) know someone or your family knows someone, or (b) filled someone's quota. So, I wouldn't be flaunting your "12 week" summer to others. That kind of pompous, entitled attitude will get you no where this summer.

I propose that a half-lobster is better than no asslobster at all.

Suddenly my 6 week + 6 week split seems quite nice.

As much as I realize that this is complaining about a leaky faucet while my neighbor's house is on fire I can't help but say that I'm actually a little upset with Cravath over this. For starters there's the whole line about them being the firm that was okay with spending money on associates (like the recently canceled prom, coming up with the whole summer system in the first place) -- it really makes me hope the place hasn't seen a sea change in the culture the year before I show up. But more so this just seems too extreme. I realize that they're making less money this year but they're not going out of business, the "catastrophic" drop they just posted wiped out two whole years of growth after all. Profits are above 2005 numbers and they could afford 12 weeks (and the canceled weekend and the canceled prom and bigger bonuses) WAY before that so someone better show me where inflation just hit 10% because I'm starting to get confused.

-Cravath Summer

It's daylight SAVING time, not SAVINGS time, Kash.

To all incoming summer associates, thank your lucky stars that you even have something to do this summer. Stop complaining and accept the reality that things have changed. All you have at this point is an opportunity to work for 9-10 weeks, you actually have to get a full time position if you can.

i thank god every day that i'm a 3L and not a 1L,2L, 1st or 2nd year right now.

life's not great for us, but it's better than the other guys!

What's the GPA cut-off crap nonsense with Gibson Dunn for top-40 schools?

64 - 27 is right. sidley chicago is allowing up to 14 weeks. however - in ny the program is only 11 weeks and you have to do a minimum of 9.

As much as I realize that this is complaining about a leaky faucet while my neighbor's house is on fire I can't help but say that I'm actually a little upset with Cravath over this. For starters there's the whole line about them being the firm that was okay with spending money on associates (like the recently canceled prom, coming up with the whole summer system in the first place) -- it really makes me hope the place hasn't seen a sea change in the culture the year before I show up. But more so this just seems too extreme. I realize that they're making less money this year but they're not going out of business, the "catastrophic" drop they just posted wiped out two whole years of growth after all. Profits are above 2005 numbers and they could afford 12 weeks (and the canceled weekend and the canceled prom and bigger bonuses) WAY before that so someone better show me where inflation just hit 10% because I'm starting to get confused. Lastly, I nearly signed a lease on an apartment for the summer last week and I'm damn glad I didn't, they really needed to let us know about this before we started doing our housing searches, which I imagine for quite a few people was a while ago.

-Cravath Summer

I just called the partner in charge of the summer program and told them to be sure not to cut the length of ours.

We can deal with a lot of threats/adverse consequences/layoffs/poor morale, but people like 16 not coming into the firm excited? That's just something that can't happen.

take um to Charlie's, and chop um up.

BRAVO 85.

Paul Hastings summer associate collectible coat hangers for the win!

I'm guessing this means no more splits. Given firms' minimum stay requirements I doubt this will work with the shortened programs---as much as the firm would like to pawn you off on some government agency for half the summer.

And the hoarding situation will be tense this summer. Associates will not be keen on carving out any work they could possible cast as billable.

I am suprised to hear comments that LW even still has a summer program

100--frickin hilarious.

My firm told us 10 weeks from the beginning. It thought that was the smart move.

BRAVO 85.

Cahill has two different start dates: May 18 & May 26. One is not suggested over the other.

Mandatory end date is on July 31.

Not so bad.

81- Where exactly do the 2L's know something about the practice of law?

Or are you suggesting GDC move to a laterals-only hiring scheme?

109 - but you have to work at Cahill. that's like playing leapfrog with a unicorn.

I am so thankful to have accepted at Skadden. You all on the other hand are idiots.

85 - And yet, you still spend 20 minutes writing out that bitchy screed and will continue to return here, giving ATL increased pageviews and revenue.

Who's the shithead now?

10 weeks is reasonable. anything less shows a really big problem. Shearman & Sterling must be sinking.

Along the lines of 73...

Have any 2Ls actually thought about what it is going to be like at a firm this summer? It's depressing as hell. You should be glad that they are cutting the number of weeks. Once you get here, you won't be able to wait until its over.

93/99 Your long-winded post does not cover the fact that you are a douche and will likely have your start date delayed until 2014. I hate you.

- Dad

You want to cut, fine. But Kirkland has known about this since January, and only recently announced. Fuck people's scheduling needs, fuck the fact that they have to sign leases for the summer. Hey, the partners have a golf outing in Florida to get to!

What about a thread about SUMMER CLASS SIZES!?!?!?!??!??!!

Skadden is still at 13 weeks in all offices.

One time my I used a Swedish recycling guide to propel my tricycle made out of weed

One time my I used a Swedish recycling guide to propel my tricycle made out of weed

92 and anyone else thinking about splitting. DON'T BE A TARD. If you split, you are just begging BOTH departments that you split with to say "Sorry, we just didn't get enough time to properly evaluate you, so we're not comfortable extending an offer to you, but good luck at OCI, and thanks for stopping by."

Pick one department, bust your ass and pray to god that you can convince the firm to break with its policy that no one in your class is going to get an offer.

Oh, and 99... YOU are a douche.

85, yes. I'm an associate at Kirkland and I freaked out last week when I saw a new post re firm layoffs. My heart skipped with every email "ding" and phone call.

I called everyone I thought might be in the know, and no one knew anything. It was impossible to focus on work for a few hours, until the general consensus emerged that, while there may well be strategic discussions going on, nothing was set in stone, and the more likely explanation for last week's posts was a confirmed Law & Order shooting in the NYC offices.

I probably overreacted, but the editors at ATL need to know that some of us are gripped with fear about losing our jobs. We aren't sleeping well, we aren't eating well, and we're fixated on economic and profession-related news. I wish I weren't this way, but I am.

Please be more cautious in the future. If dozens of emails are pouring in claiming cuts are being made (e.g., Latham last month), feel free to report it (which, in Latham's case, you didn't until a week later). But a booked conference room by a management partner, by itself, is not reason to report on possible imminent layoffs--especially if there is a logical explanation that you just haven't looked into.

I understand why firms are scaling back. By my math, my firm should be saving about $360K by making the program 10 weeks. However, I do wish the firm would have given us more notice. 2 weeks is a significant block of time. If I'd known earlier about this change, I may have applied for other things to do with my end-summer. Now I'm looking at about 6 weeks of nothing, which sounds blissful, but could turn out to be dull and depressing.

I heard from a reliable source that Skadden's summer program is now 1 week at $10 / hour.

115/73, no we haven't considered that at all. We thought it was all perfect out there in law firm land and hadn't considered that it's going to suck this summer. Also, we all got firm jobs. NY to 190?

Sarcasm aside, I'm not sure which side of the table I'd like to be on right now. I'm sure it's a scary time to be an associate as these layoffs keep hitting each day. That said, it's not a particularly great time to be a law student either as offers vanish, start dates are pushed back by 3 months, 6 months, and now a full year, and layoffs make you question your decision (if you had one). Firms dramatically curtailed summer hiring already. I don't think any of us should be complaining about shortened summers.

Still, how about some recognition that we're all in this shit together and that some of us (first years and those of us still in school) could end up a hell of a lot more fucked than those who've ridden the gravy train till now.

So who will now wipe the Asslobster of Cravath?

93/99, while whiny, has a point about leases. Like I said, at least Kirkland (and maybe other firms) have known they were going to do this since at least the beginning of the year. Why not tell us sooner?

Also, what happened to buying a cabin on the boat meaning that you sink or sail along with it? If partnership has no risk, then it truly is a pyramid scheme. I know some a-holes will say, "Welcome to BIGLAW" and say I have some kind of entitlement complex, and to that I say, "STFU." I'm just asking for some business acumen here, and law firms seem to lack it in large part.

- 117

Are they cutting from the beginning or the end?

milbank will cut to ten weeks tomorrow. you heard it here first.

So what? Cravath and Gibson haven't conducted layoffs. The summer program is the most logical thing to cut. Before summers complain too much, they should realize that the savings from a shorter summer program might actually help a few more of them get full-time jobs. As of now, the summer offer rate will probably be something aro0und 60% at all firms.

Cravath and Gibson -- no deferalls or layoffs!

Guys, don't worry, the DOW is up and the recession is over. Jobs for everyone.

Anyone who has nothing better to do with those 2 weeks than spend it in an office is a looser. If you're concerned about making $30k pre-tax instead of $36 pre-tax learn how to make a budget.

Most firms probably only have enough work to give 1 summer for a week, let alone 10 or 12 weeks.

Jacoby & Meyers laid me off and I don't even work there.

GULC4L

117/128- And how would have telling you sooner made any difference? Save a thousand bucks on rent? No big deal, you're still getting paid for 10 weeks. The only difference is that you would have run to ATL a few weeks sooner to try and shame your firm for doing something prudent.

There is NO WAY the offer % at Cravath and Gibson dips below 95%. They will defer if they have to but they won't resort to tactics reserved for bona fide TTTs.

Lunch policies for all firms this summer: $10 daily gift cards to Chipotle. For those of you summering in NY, I hear Friday's in Times Square will be this summer's Jean Georges.

64: There was no 12 week cap at Sidley's Chicago office in 2008.

Finnegan Henderson cut to 8 weeks.

31: Where did you hear that about DLA Piper? I'm still waiting to find out my start date.

138 -- There is no more Sidley Chicago.

nice try

140: DLA piper? i would be scared if i were you. no-offered a ton of people and laid off a ton of first years

135 -

Yes, save $1,000 on rent. Some of us are fucking poor. My point is this: if firms knew they were going to either cut the summer program or shorten it compared to their programs historically (I can only speak with authority that Kirkland has done this, I don't know about others), then why not just tell us when you know? Why delay? It fucks us over for no apparent reason.

I WORK FOR A LAW FIRM.

CWT is 12

Anyone know when Brobeck Phleger & Harrison announces start dates?

So the question is, will there be any work for SAs this year? Every hour of substantive work will be one hour taken from young associates who are already desperate for hours!

119 is correct.

Covington still offering 14 weeks (as of today, at least). I'd gladly take fewer weeks if it increased the odds of SAs getting offers ITE, but the connection between the two seems pretty teneous at best.

Agree that a summer class size post would be good.

Luce Forward down to 0 weeks

"There is NO WAY the offer % at Cravath and Gibson dips below 95%. They will defer if they have to but they won't resort to tactics reserved for bona fide TTTs."

Probably true for Gibson. Not so sure about Cravath.

Luce Forward down to 0 weeks

The beautiful Kash + Miniskirt = One perfect ass lobster

151: cravath does cold offers. they'll probably just increase the number of those they do

I'm about to sign a lease this week..would it be dumb/look bad if i called my firm (offering 14 weeks) and asked if they plan to cut

154: That's what I meant.

-151

How many cold offers does Cravath usually give out?

What does one have to do to get cold offered?

Does anyone have solid information from Cravath re: start dates?

151--- you're joking right? Cravath, despite 160 incoming class and a big summer class this year, is still in a better economic position than Gibson.

and 154- Cravath does NOT give cold offers. They have no reason to. If they don't want you, they tell you, and that's it. If you do something enough that makes them want to not give you an offer, they could care less about giving you a cold offer to leave you in a better position to re-interview.

157: nobody outside of the hiring committee would know for sure. i just know a person who got a cold offer, he/she acted like a total dick/cunt, so if i were you i would avoid doing that.

Wachtell Lipton down to 8 weeks, layoffs on the way

159: Your basis for suggesting that they're in a better economic position than Gibson?

And I'm partly kidding.

What 122 said. Do not split. Even last year, firms were quick on the trigger to no-offer people and splitting just makes it too easy to find "fit" issues with you at both places. You are not diversifying your chances, you putting a target on your back.

Weil is still at 12 weeks. In fact, they have a 10 week minimum. I'm down.

158-- the information is TRUE
Start dates are October 26th, November 14th, and mid-January... to be given out on a first come first serve basis. it is 100% true.... not sure why there hasnt been a post about it yet

155 - I'm in the same position (although for a 12 week firm) and I just e-mailed, they seemed happy to answer for me.

165-will you be starting there in the fall? How do you know this information?

Thanks

NY (except Weil) and CA to 140. TX to 190!

154, 157 --

Last summer, only one cold offer that I'm aware of. He was cold offered for repeatedly sexually harassing several other summers in public.

93/99, while I acknowledge your admitting that you're just being a little bit whiny, I'm honestly embarrassed to be working with you next summer. Man up.

Cravath - Top in NY (w/ Wachtell)

Gibson - Top in LA (sorry LW, not even close)

Kirkland - Top Chicago-based firm

These firms could fire a ton of people if they wanted, but they're trying to cut costs any way they can before they do that. I respect that. No one is entitled to tens of thousands of dollars for getting taken out to lunches and dinner, especially in this economy.

Hopefully firms start reducing summer programs before firing attorneys or screwing those who have full-time offers.

162 -- higher profit margin. thats it really, but its a pretty good measure

The ship be sinking...

4 = fucktard. The "up" and "back" references are completely relative. If you're referring to dates on a linear calendar, moving "up" can mean moving forward in time, and moving "back" can mean moving back in time.

167-- no im not, but i know for a fact on good authority

93/99, while I acknowledge your admitting that you're just being a little bit whiny, I'm honestly embarrassed to be working with you next summer. Man up.

Willkie is a great firm. If they hold, they will be v25

72,

Willkie is at 12 weeks, but is not paying above market. Check the firm's website

72,

6600 is probably every 15 days... i.e. twice monthly = at market.

But yes, 177 is correct. Willkie is a tremendous firm that doesn't get enough love.

"Cravath - Top in NY (w/ Wachtell)"

I'd say the gap between Wachtell and Cravath is a lot bigger than the gap between GDC and Latham.

Willkie is Top 20 in New York, soon to be higher

93/99 - No, you are moaning about a leaky faucet when YOUR house is on fire. You are going to be part of a crazy HUGE summer class (160?) at a firm that was the leader in cutting bonuses in half from last year and signaled potentially no bonuses in '09.

Here's a tip: STFU and try to survive.

180--- not really. look at the partner rankings-- partners rank Cravath higher than Wachtell every year-- and that is more relevant I would say than associates

Anyone else want to jump on the impromptu Willkie Bandwagon.

Also, while Wachtell is only a little better than Cravath in Corporate, Cravath is FAR better than Wachtell in Lit.

but annnyway... since all of these threads turn into this anway, let's predict next year's (associate survey) Vault:
1- Wachtell, 2-4 Toss up between Cravath, S&C, and Skadden, but I would say Cravath still has a slight edge. I'd say Davis is gone from top 5, Weil or Cleary to take its place. Willkie-- welcome to the top 20.
Partner rankings... will be the same with Cravath number 1 and rest following suit, because partners know that this market means nothing in the long term.... except for LAtham. LAtham's out.

Also, while Wachtell is only a little better than Cravath in Corporate, Cravath is FAR better than Wachtell in Lit.

but annnyway... since all of these threads turn into this anway, let's predict next year's (associate survey) Vault:
1- Wachtell, 2-4 Toss up between Cravath, S&C, and Skadden, but I would say Cravath still has a slight edge. I'd say Davis is gone from top 5, Weil or Cleary to take its place. Willkie-- welcome to the top 20.
Partner rankings... will be the same with Cravath number 1 and rest following suit, because partners know that this market means nothing in the long term.... except for LAtham. LAtham's out.

183: Fair enough.

7,

Is right. Summer programs are bloated and absolute waste of money - so is law school on some level. I think the terrible economy will be the death knell of summer associate programs -

When I was a summer, the hiring partner admitted that they, even out side of salary, they should just give each summer a a lower end mercedes instead of all the crap events, etc that was planned for.

Maybe the economic decline will allow there to be full discussion of an outdated industry model that will change firms, law students, lawyers and industry mavins view on billalbe rates, law school costs, associate salaries, partner salaries, summer associate programs, billable rates and minimums, the Cravath law firm model, etc.... I am not holding my breath

137, I'm not gonna lie, I'd be pretty stoked about free Chipotle all summer.

4 = fucktard. The "up" and "back" references are completely relative. If you're referring to dates on a linear calendar, moving "up" means moving forward in time, and moving "back" means moving back in time.

I would be scared more if I was a summer splitting between offices. THink about it, it's not likely there -will be 90-100% offers this summer. That being said, if a firm has to offer only 60%, wouldn't you rather offer the 60% that seem excited to work at your firm and you are sure will accept? That way you don't have to guestimate whether they will accept or not, and if so, whether you have too many offers outstanding and will have to delay start dates?

Just saying, those kids thinking it's wise to split the summer are highly mistaken. Note, that all this crapt about delayed start dates for kids now didn't come out until after the NALP acceptance date, so splitting a summer really won't be anything but a detriment this summer.

I'd be worried if I was splitting. Just saying.

186 and my dad can beat up your dad--so there!

189-

This is the TITCR

4 = fucktard. The "up" and "back" references are completely relative. If you're referring to dates on a linear calendar, moving "up" means moving forward in time, and moving "back" means moving back in time.

191 - sorry you didn't get two offers. Now go back to working on your school's ttthird journal.

The NY market is so early 2000's. DC is the new black.

WHY does no one realize how STUPID the Vault Rankings are? The "V100" everyone talks about is a SURVEY of ASSOCIATES. Why the hell do you care what associates think is the most prestigious firm? And why the hell do you care about "prestife" anyway?

You want rankings that matter?
Check out Chambers & Partners. Or the Corporate Board Member and GC rankings? OR if you must go with the Vault... then the Vault PARTNER rankings.

Those rankings actually involve important people "in the know" making assessments of firms. Yes, the firms tend to be the same (Cravath, Skadden, Wachtell...etc.) but the Vault Associate Survey is meaningless without those.

195, I'm a second year associate. I'm just spouting my advice.

Those kids who had 2 offers and accepted Latham based off of "ranking" are doing wonderfully now. 4 months as a first year and laid off.

Keep drinking the cool-aid kid.

191 has a point. SCARY!!!

Not 195 - but if you were splitting this summer between Latham and Gibson, you are REAL happy you are not at just Latham for 8-10 weeks.

Some firms don't allow split summers. And if you noticed they are often smaller and haven't had mass layoffs as of yet. I think not splitting is a great choice.

Why can't T-10 1L just call himself "Michigan 1L"?

because he's at Penn

Cravath cold-offered at least five or six summers last year. Expect that number to increase exponentially this year.

My firm allows me to spit on summers all I want. They are my slaves.

Goodwin Procter cut theirs to 8

204--- what is your basis of this... because you are purebullshit. name them if you are so sure.
They cold offered NO ONE. They No-offered One person.

204, I agree. As a summer last year I can confirm that my firm and many of my friends firms lied about their offer ratios with teh "cold-offer." Some firms that claim on NALP forms that they offered 100% actually offered more around 75%. . . it just wasn't known until recently.

Good luck to this years summers. Seriously. And don't worry about a shortened program. After 6 weeks of socializing with these mutants, you don't want to be there anymore anyways. Besides, last summer was kind of "tense" with the economic talks. This summer is bound be be competitive and suck. I really wish you well.

And whatever you do, just make sure you are not the "know it all, bragging douche who thinks he's entitled to the job because he went to a better school/Has a rich daddy/is a jap/whatever."
- that's the description of the 3 kids from my firm who were cold-offered.

I think those of us splitting with our 1L firms are playing it smart. The likelihood of being the one to get no-offered at your 1L firm is pretty low, and now with the shortened summer programs at the top firms, we won't have to miss any weeks of the program. If it makes us have a big target on our back, so be it. Would rather have a closer-to-guaranteed job at a regional firm + a chance at another job than only a 60-80% chance of getting a return offer in the Vault 20 and then finding myself truly screwed.

209--- your logic makes a little sense, but the thing is that whatever firm you will not be "starting" your summer at, will just not give you an offer. and the one you leave, you will be at a disadvantage. Even with shortened summers, the summer is only so long, and you cant spend 10 weeks at both firms. Firms are shortening the programs by limiting the dates of starting and ending... not just the amount of weeks you can do.

85: you are a suck ass, an idiot or a partner, may be all at once, which would not be unusual. Go away.

209 - splitting with your 1L firm is completely different than the kids who are splitting with 2 different firms they were not 1L's at for the 2L summer.

I agree you are playing it smart. I think the kids who are splitting 2 V20 firms are making a huge mistake and a giant gamble.

Sidley Chicago drastically cut the summer class size this year - it's only 45. That's how they can supposedly still afford a 14 week program. I'm signed up for 14 weeks and planning to sign a lease this week. Now I'm terrified. If Kirkland cuts the time, what's stopping Sidley?

I've heard McGuire Woods has scaled back its summer from 10 weeks to 8, so that it ends on July 10. It also has reduced weekly pay by 10% (below market), so summers there are essentially receiving only 70% of the salary they signed on for, and a lot less of the experience.

2009 is going to be a shitty year. It will be a bloodbath.

Who is going to make it out the worst: last year's first years and anyone currently working.

Who makes out best: 2L's this year, who will have a shitty summer but will be starting work when the market picks back up.

Who makes out still decent: 3L's. So what if your firm delayed your start date. Deal with it. It really isn't the end of the world. Starting in 2010, the market is going to be picking up, and your job security is going to skyrocket.

209, gambling for a $160K job but guaranteeing that you make an extra $10K this summer is the most foolish thing I've ever heard in my life. It just proves that you went straight to lawschool after college without having ever entered the "real, working world."

anyone who has summered in new york at a good firm knows how amazing it is and what an amazing WASTE of time/money/effort it is. when things were poppin, it was a nice perk, but in these times to squander away 3K a week on corporate daycare for spoiled lawbrats is just not good business. for those SAs from last year, we got in just in time. grateful is the new ungrateful.

check americanlawyer.com for the delayed Cravath Start Dates

Cravath may be superior to Gibson in transactional work, but it’s a draw in litigation (particularly appellate, antitrust, securities, white collar, etc.). Also, Cravath partners make tons of cash through leverage, yet revenue per lawyer is almost identical between Gibson and Cravath. Translation: Cravath associates are servile billing monkeys, Gibson associates do tons of substantive work. Case in point: none of my colleagues stayed at Cravath for more than 36 months, yet most of my class is still at Gibson after five or six years.

Also, Cravath’s transactional advantage hardly translates into “being in a better economic position.” In fact, high leverage in the corporate department has been the death knell of many firms in this economy. Obviously, Cravath is not going out of business, but they have literally hundreds of lawyers twiddling their thumbs waiting for work. How long do you think partners will employ idle six-figure associates who aren’t billing for work? Cravath’s partners took a huge hit in profits last year, and that following nine months of fairly robust work.

This is the first time the post-1980s leverage system has faced a financial crisis. Trust me, the old lawyer-gentlemen’s culture is dead. Look at Davis Polk and other top NY firms screwing their associates through backdoor layoffs. Cravath is not immune to any of this. They already delayed start dates for incoming associates by 2-4 months and cut the summer program. Read the writing on the wall.

I wouldn't be too worried about shortened programs. It would be time to panic if firms started cancelling their summer programs.

Instead, firms seem to be doing it as part of a "cost-cutting" package that also includes lay-offs, salary reductions, etc.

It's all in anticipation of 2009 being a lousy year.

215: you have to clarify that you are only talking about 3L's with job offers. THose who don't or summered at firms that dissolved are the most screwed out of anyone.

Cheers,
a sympathetic friend of a Thelen 3L.

http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2009/03/cravath-joins-delayed-start-date-party.html

SKADDEN's first start date is in mid-October too... so why dont they get a post either?

Patent lawyers at boutiques paying 160 are starting in early september. . . and we work less. Suck it you annoying kids!

I've heard from CSM associates that the firm will be done by February 2010.... dissolved!

219

RPL Cravath: 1.2 m, Gibson Dunn 1.0 m They are not the same.

The Emeritus old partner character is stupid.

I liked the "conjoined twins" bit more. More of that inspiring insight would help in these tough times.

-Fan of the conjoined twins

210 - Minimum stays at your 1L firm can be 2-6 weeks. They already know that they liked you when you spent the full or half summer with them last year. I'll go into the short summer already being a familiar face to a lot of the attorneys, and I keep in touch throughout the year. Don't weigh in if you're a 1L who doesn't know what you're talking about.

216 - The gamble for the $160k job is minimal. I'll be there for their full summer program. But I am also basically guaranteeing an offer at a $145k job. If I don't go back, then I don't get the offer. It's an acceptable risk to me. Also, we had to make the call in October on which firms would survive without layoffs. I could have easily guessed wrong.

Also, I worked in the "real world" before law school.

219: Check out the AmLaw Value Rankings: Cravath (13 lawyers to reach $10 million) and Gibson (16.5). Close, but not "identical"

That said, Cravath lawyers probably bill 20% more hours in a year than Gibson lawyers. In that case, Gibson lawyers probably bring in more revenue per hour than Cravath lawyers (who are definitely servile billing monkeys).

(This is intentionally NY focused)

Anyone who has a job lined up at Cravath, Wachtell, S&C, Skadden, Debevoise, Weil, Cleary, or Willkie has no reason to be worried. Anyone with a job lined up at Davis or Simpson, you have.... no reason to worry either.
Fried Frank, Latham---- start looking for another job now.

What makes you so confident about Willkie/Debevoise, 230?

206- Goodwin is 9 weeks

can anyone comment on how screwed you think 2Ls are with so many laid off attorneys looking for jobs? is there ANY rationale for why firms would rather hire a SA next fall, rather than hiring a more experienced attorney who would clearly be smarter, better, more efficient in every possible way? (other than the fact newbies would be cheaper).

Willkie is an amazing firm from every source I have. It is vaaastly underestimated. Plus, it is good in bankruptcy. Also it's PPP is very high and always has been, and far higher than many firms whose "vault prestige" is higher. It has a great reputation as a good place to work as well, and as being well run.

Debevoise-- same thing really.

They may not be as safe as Wachtell or Cravath, but I don't think any of the firms I mentioned are going aywhere anytime soon.

From your Cravath tipster:

"No explanation given. I'm sure that they made calls rather than emails to avoid a paper trail."

First, the call ended with, "do you have any questions at all?" If you ask why the firm was cutting the summer length, an explanation was given. Perhaps the tipster was too scared to ask questions...

Second, and email followed the call, indicating the same information on summer length. Since when is having some one call you personally a bad thing?

Cravath gets unfairly piled on her at ATL, by both editors and comments. Now that no one thinks that long hours and being worked hard at Cravath is worthy of defame, the haters move on to too much telephone courtesy. Get over your jealousy.

223--

Probably b/c last year's start dates encompassed the October start date (I believe associates could choose b/w 4 dates, the latest of which was October 15). Thus, start dates have not really be pushed back unless you choose the Nov 14 start date.

thank you 235

Willkie should get the recognition it deserves.

Our firm (a peer of Cravath) has shortened its summer by almost a week from last year. I have been told by a partner that the reason for this was due to OCI dates coming earlier, and that the recruiters need time to shift from summer to fall mode. I'm reasonably confident that this was the real reason, and that the firm is not trying to nickel and dime the summer program.

It seems reasonable that Cravath is doing the same.

230

Do you know anything about NY market? Unless you want to do bankruptcy law, you should be concerned of your job at Weil.

Cleary, Weil, Debevoise and Cravath are all incredibly leveraged. If you are an associate there, you should be concerned.

Where can we find out how leveraged a firm is?

I don't care so much that the firms are shortening their summer, but what about the booze-cruise? Has there been any talk of them cutting back at all? I jsut hope they don't cheapen it by serving Jameson 1780 when you know they could go for Bushmills 1608 if they just laid-off a few more staffers.

I don't care so much that the firms are shortening their summer, but what about the booze-cruise? Has there been any talk of them cutting back at all? I jsut hope they don't cheapen it by serving Jameson 1780 when you know they could go for Bushmills 1608 if they just laid-off a few more staffers.

DPW has neither shorten its summer program nor delay its 1st years' starting date.

"Get over your jealousy."

-No.

I'm confused. Most firms have 10 week summers now. Why is this news?

Mofo always gave people the option from 10-12weeks...but now it's only 10 weeks firmwide

244 -- it's nice to see that DPW is all about maintaining its outward appearance that everything's great while conducting stealth layoffs at the same time.

DPW still has a 14-week summer program, from May 4 to August 7. Isn't this crazy?

Cravath delays start dates (check out AmericanLawyer.com). Wonderful. Now the rest will follow...

No more outings to the beach for SAs?

I guess that means no more sand in my cravath.

241,

Have a look here:
http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1202426909972

"DPW has neither shorten[ed] its summer program nor delay[ed] its 1st years' starting date. "

. . . . At least you're pretty.

67 hit the nail on the head. Reducing pay, nixing the bulk of the events and shortening the program is reasonable. When times are flush again, then bring back the lavish programs.

Still haven't heard from Dechert.

Really, I'd prefer that they eliminate the firm trip and all entertainment/meals/etc than eliminate weeks. I truly wouldn't mind them not feeding us at all (and I'd love Chipotle!) even if cutting it all out only got us one more week back.

I need the money to live- I don't waste anything on personal expenses, I don't even have a tv. Anything they cut just increases my loans.

New York to 190 . . . minutes of SA work before they decide whether to offer you!

stealth layoffs= forced attrition= nothing out of the ordinary.

this happens in every economy, just on different scales

Why are so many trying to compare GDC to Cravath? That seems to be the ultimate apples and oranges. Each is an awesome firm. But they are vastly different on so many levels. For one, Cravath is NYC-only. If you want to live in L.A., you really don't have a choice...

"DPW has neither shorten[ed] its summer program nor delay[ed] its 1st years' starting date. "

. . . . At least you're pretty.

Nervous T10 1L = Michigan 1L

Nervous T10 1L = Michigan 1L

"Why are so many trying to compare GDC to Cravath?"

Because GDC and Cravath were the firms featured most prominently in this post, probably.

Gibson summer here - they were really nice about everything and noted they anticipated making the same percentage of offers as in years past.

what about splitting offices of the same firm?

DPW's "14 weeks" is bullshit. its May 4 to Aug 7. no one gets out of school on May 4. at CLS, the earliest monday you can start is the 18th. it's a de facto 12 week program.

If you're splitting with your 1L firm should you be worried?

RE: 77 & Stroock cutting to 8 weeks.

Bullshit. If that's the case they haven't notified their summers yet.

There needs to be a thread on summer class sizes. I know that Proskauer overhired by a lot; they went from a class of 50 to a class of 76.

good point, 239. i didn't ask any questions. what was the response to why?

Skadden allows a few start date with 5/11 and 5/18 being the most realistic for most people. Programs runs until 8/7/2009 - the end date for all.

Actually 265, all types of people are out of school by May 4. I could have started that early when my finals were over. There are people I know that started as early as April 30 and had take home finals and were able to get in over 14 weeks at firms and people who worked all the way through August and did the same thing.

Most of the students/summer offerees on this comment line are respectful and (with good reason) nervous. Good for you--you obviously realize the implications of today's economic and profession.

But this one is for the gripers with summer offers:

If you are fortunate enough to get paid to spend this summer sitting in our offices (for any range of weeks), please try on a little respect. Plenty of experienced attorneys are being laid off right now--and many by the same firms that are honoring their offers to pay you to do virtually nothing this summer. Just three to five years ago, these associates were the same bright law students, full of potential (but as clueless about the real practice of law as a bag of hammers), that you are now. Today, they are unemployed lawyers who know what they are doing and could add value to their cases, but for the fact that there are not enough cases to go around. Those associates who are lucky enough to still have jobs at the firms today are billing hours now to help fund your paychecks this summer.

So, the comments that firms are "stealing" money from you by shortening the summer programs--or that you are being denied some inalienable right if your start dates are pushed back--fall on deaf ears. Suck it up, and come in here so that we can teach you how to practice law this summer so that you have a chance. If you are also paid so much as a dime for that experience, count yourself among the lucky.

-Big Law Associate

thinking about the coat hanger for 12 weeks and getting paid doesn't seem to be a bad idea to me. not bad at all.

223: Skadden's first start date is 9/14.

272=tool. Because, you know, clearly you would have been happy to work as a summer associate while not getting paid. All of these whining associates are hypocrites. I can't wait to steal your billables from you.

272 - Let's not kid ourselves, firms are "honoring their offers" for the self-serving reason of preserving their reputation with students. They want to preserve their reputation with students so they can portray themselves to clients as the best of the best. So we get overpaid this summer - they use us, we use them.

275 = the real tool, for thinking the hours he turns in are actually going to get billed to a client. no self-respecting client would accept paying for hours billed by a summer associate. hope this helps.

Interesting, 277. Most whiners on here are crying about summer associates "stealing" their billable work. But according to you, summers don't bill hours to clients. So according to that logic, the associates summers are "stealing" hours from aren't billing clients either. Hm. Interesting. You should go petition Cardozo for your tuition back.

223--- no its not.. it is OCTOBER 14th... 10/14

275--Can't wait to see you there--assuming your offer isn't rescinded. But I'm sure you're not worried about that. Oh, FYI, we don't start sentences with "Because" in the real world unless we write for The Economist. Good luck snagging all those billables, poseur.

Because writing comments on a blog is a clear indicator of how well one can write. Idiot.

lol @ 280. Those who resort to grammar policing = those who have loser arguments = those who have feeble minds = those who will be fired in favor of SA's.

Those who resort to grammar policing = those who review your work = those who decide whether SA's get to come back for a real job in a sour economy = SOL @ 282.

I think Cravath's previous summer was from 5/11 to 8/7 = maximum of 13 weeks, FYI. All this 12 weeks talk is missing the math somehow.

would a firm ever reduce the summer program for only a few of the 2ls??

284-

Wait, it was THIRTEEN WEEKS before?!? As in, they announced it would be thirteen and then cut back?

Wow. That's really crummy. When did they make the earlier annoucnemnt?

Winston is eight weeks.

S&C start date for incoming associates is Oct 5th.

I was at Sidley LA last summer and did 13 weeks. I know that other summers did 14 weeks. 10 weeks was the minimum, but there was absolutely no cap in LA - I know from personal experience.

284, you're an idiot...why don't you read more carefully? it was 13 weeks the "previous summer," then this summer you originally could have UP TO 12 weeks to as few as you want, but now they're limiting it to 10 max.

290, you are incorrect. Material for this summer, before the revision, indicated that one could have up to 13 weeks, with a minimum of 10 weeks. There is still a minimum requirement of 10 weeks.

Mid-level associate (ex-Cravath) here. Based on what I've seen, I think zero weeks sounds about right for a summer program. Most summers are completely useless and the programs are a colossal waste of money. Eventually CSM or some other elite firm is going to wise up, eliminate their 2L summer program entirely, and fill their entering classes by poaching 3Ls and clerks who were paid $30K by some other chump firm to eat lunch and surf the Internet all day.

Mid-level associate (ex-Cravath) here. Based on what I've seen, I think zero weeks sounds about right for a summer program. Most summers are completely useless and the programs are a colossal waste of money. Eventually CSM or some other elite firm is going to wise up, eliminate their 2L summer program entirely, and fill their entering classes by poaching 3Ls and clerks who were paid $30K by some other chump firm to eat lunch and surf the Internet all day.

276 -- If that's what you have to believe to feel better about yourself, go right ahead. But seeing as you have never worked full-time as an attorney at a law firm, let alone served on any law firm's summer, recruiting, hiring or managing committee, it is clearly obvious that what you say comes from your HOPE of how things are, rather than how things ACTUALLY are. Come back and post when you've actually served on one of those committees -- by then you might have some credibility when it comes to knowing what firms "want".

278 - fact is that most clients will not pay for SA work (no client w/ any sophistication at least). Thus, SA work is written off. I've never seen a bill that billed out a dime of SA work. -- most partners write it off. However,. clients would pay for an associate to do the same work. We can do it faster.

That said, I'm not sure SAs really "steal" time from associates. Most of the time, associates are told to go back and double check the work, explore other research trails, etc. So, I'll spend the three hours it would have taken me to figure out an answer reviewing and checking an SA's work (which took the SA 20 hours or so).

Another point -- associates may hoard work, but most assigments for our SA's come from partners. Associates are asked to come up with projects, but the responsibility rests w/ the partners. I can't hoard work I don't get (but hopefully, I'm getting too senior so work I can do won't get given to a summer!)

Interesting points from the associates above, esp. 293/295. Knowing we're worthless, and knowing that nobody is ever billed for our "work", what would you recommend SAs do with their time? Obviously trying to meet the right people, and showing an interest when projects do come along, but beyond that is there really anything else SAs can do other than staying out of the way?

I can tell you right now the associates griping about summer associates are huge douchebags who deserve to get fired. You people are the reason everyone hates lawyers. Stop bitching about the SA's. Guess what assholes, we WERE SA's not too long ago, draining firm money on our lavish lunches and events and not doing work. Get off your high horses. Eliminating a summer program probably saves enough money for like 10 jobs. When firms are laying off hundreds of people, it's not the summer program that is the problem. IT is YOU. In 2-3 years when new blood is needed, the firm's summer program pays for itself. However, having you languish right now at nearly 200K a year when you aint doin shit is a WASTE of money.

PAUL WEISS TO 13 WEEKS OF GLORY! PAUL WEISS TO V5!

wait for it...

THIS IS SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

297 - 293 here. You seem to be missing a crucial distinction here. I have nothing against SAs, having been one myself. I don't blame them for taking 30-35K when some idiot firm hands it to them for no good reason. My only point was that there has to be a better way to find good junior associates than a traditional summer program. One positive aspect of a nasty recession like this is that it forces market actors to reexamine themselves and find that better way.

The SA program is a uniquely American problem. This economic crisis will force many firms with any meaningful presence in the U.S. to re-think how they evaluate and hire associates.

Sidley DC last summer assumed 12 weeks but allowed SAs to do as many as 14 weeks. I did 14 and I was not alone. I have no clue what they are doing this summer.