Clearly they must have drafted this memo before the Dow increased, signaling the end of the recession.

Welcome to the party, Skadden! We were hoping you would attend!

Welcome to the party, Skadden! We were hoping you would attend!

I'd detecting a lot of Skaddenfreude in these comments

What happens if there is still no work after one year? Do you still get to return?

Not good.

Every law firm should do this. I'd take it in a heartbeat even if I wasn't afraid for my job.

OMG I would completely sign up for this. Its like a year maternity leave! They pay for your loans, bar dues, and health insurance!? Woo hoo!

Come on Milbank -- announce something already!

Choose your own subtext:

Subtext 1: Since our associates are only doing pro bono all day anyway, there is no incentive for them to participate in this program, but if they don't participate, they will probably get laid off. Meanwhile, we get a tax write-off, save some cash, and still look great to young recruits.

or

Subtext 2: We are publicly introducing this program for the associates benefit, so that when we force them to do the Sidebar program it will look as though they chose to participate voluntarily. We get a tax write-off, save some cash, and still look great to young recruits.

THIS IS A BETTER DEAL THAN WORKING.

I would jump all over this- and start a business. By the time I had to check back in as an associate the business would be off the ground and I could resign from any officer/director positions and just hold my founder's shares. My co-founders could run with it.

The only problem is that I'm not at Skadden . . .

A good deal if you can take a job at another law firm that pays market. Then it's just a $55k bonus (as a 5th year) and loan payments and you get to work with less douche-y people for a year.

What will it be, S&C?

All of these "hey look on the bright side!" comments are from incoming 3Ls and 1st years.

Hey, you lawyers are supposed to be so smart, right? That guy, John Yoo, figured out a way around the Constitution so that I could torture people, listen in on all of your telephone calls, and read all your emails. How come you guys couldn’t figure out a way so that I could’ve served a third term? Things were so much better when I was President.

V2 joins the track

This is to be expected from a firm with the hiring standards of a Dunkin Donuts franchisee.

12,

your founder's shares would have a 1 year cliff, so by the time you start the business you'd have to resign before any shares vest.

unless, of course, funding sources are in a particularly generous mood or moved by your great idea

If an associate chooses to participate in this program, does he still get part of his pay in "prestige"?

seriously - there is no bright side to this. If Skadden is doing this, all the other firms must be in the hole - it's only a matter of time. For a 1st year, a 1/3 of your salary is 53K - what the hell are you supposed to do with that in NYC? nope, this stinks. But you either take that or risk them just laying you off...damn...!

seriously - there is no bright side to this. If Skadden is doing this, all the other firms must be in the hole - it's only a matter of time. For a 1st year, a 1/3 of your salary is 53K - what the hell are you supposed to do with that in NYC? nope, this stinks. But you either take that or risk them just laying you off...damn...!

what's the deal for incoming 3Ls?
seems a little different than the standard 75k. do they get benefits?

18: agreed. Classing Skadden as "prestigious" always baffled me. At least from HLS, they would hire anyone with a pulse -- many of my former classmates from the bottom half of our class ended up at Skadden. This was not true of any of its supposed "peer" firms in NY, or of Covington, W&C, Quinn, or K&E.

This is an absolute heck of a deal.

Why wouldn't someone take this offer?

With student loans being paid for a year, plus a lump-sum (1/3rd of) salary payment, you are basically being given seed capital to do whatever you want with.

Go travel the world.

Create a new business (totally unrelated to law, if you wish).

Hookers and blow.

Whatever floats your boat.

25~

Nobody will take it because anyone with half of a brain knows that there is very little chance they will have a job when they get back? Anyone think that the economy is going to be magically recovered in a year?!?! (Other than #2 of course.)

Hookers and blow only if you're living at your parents' house or crashing on friends' floors every night. After taxes, this money basically covers rent.

Latham should have offered this. Laying off so many 1st years in NY was just CRUEL CRUEL CRUEL.

You can start the countdown to the lay-off memo now, it should hit just about at the end of the first pay period next month.

maybe this will finally make my "friends" who work at skadden shut up about how unstoppable their firm is.

Ok. So you get 1/3 of your salary, plus health insurance, plus your student loan payments? Absolutely amazing deal for young associates.

So what was the total count on the 12th of last month? Two bloody 12ths prior to two Friday the 13ths.

WHAT DO I DO. sounds nice. but does it make more sense to hope to get a year in at $160k then do this gamble? priority #1 is paying those loans all the way down.

Not a good deal. If you're in NYC, your lease most likely won't end until August or later. No way 53K is going to cover a Manhattan lease at the same time as your other living expenses (euro-hostels?) if you don't have another income source. And traveling? Fugghedubowdit. No cash, baby. Unless mummy and daddy are taking care of it for you.

It's not a good deal for incoming associates -- at least for the student loans. Most people don't start paying private loans back until March/April of 2010. So that's basically worth an extra $5k.

@21/22

Fuck you if you can't handle living for a year on $53K with your loan payments taken care of and full health insurance benefits. Seriously.

Hey, but they gave "full Skadden" bonuses to associates, didn't they? Suckers.

They will evaluate your class status based on what you do when you are gone? That's humorous. So if they don't rate my free internship with the Loudon County City attorney's office I can get they jack a year of seniority from me when i come back? Oh, wait. No one is coming back from this program. It's like Logan's Run. It's basically 4 months severance, with a big ole figleaf for your job hunt, which is a damn sight better than most will see. But the comedy of how they put this together is just too rich.

16- if Bush was so awful, why has Obama basically ratified everything he's done? The news is full of Obama's mouth-breathers sheepishly admitting that Gitmo is actually ok or that FISA is hunky dory. Keep up the good work.

Stay classy Skadden. Great idea. Their labor costs go down, their young attorneys get two paychecks (if they land a paying PI gig), they're assisted with loan repayments, and they have the opportunity to either loaf for an entire year and come in as a first year or hustle and come in as a second year.

All around, solid idea that addresses all concerns: 1) employment, 2) loan repayment, 3) job training, 4) future with the firm and 5) compensation. All over firms thinking about deferring associates should take a look at this program.

Can anyone please tell me what to think about how Bush and/or Obama were/are as presidents? I am concerned about my job and my bills, and I think getting a clearer picture about both of them based on the strident, obnoxious comments of some people on ATL would help me figure this all out.

@36

(Disclaimer: Numbers are bull, but are there just to get the point across)

$53K is not $53K. It's more like $30K after tax. Your lease in Manhattan (if you're lucky) is $2K/mo. That's $24K. We've gotten past $6K of that. So $18K of rent left.

Good luck living on $12K for 9 months, unless you're going to Texas.

This also presumes no other payment obligations exist (credit cards, non-health insurance, etc.)

--34

Incoming first years that take this option automatically start as first years when they start in 2010 no matter what they do with their year

Like this deal or not - Skadden's got class. Can't say the same for most other firms laying off hundreds of associates.

As an associate at another big nyc firm, this program is basically my dream in life. I'm looking to get out of this slave mill and this program would give me a buffer to find a public interest gig...while my loans were paid for...and i had health insurance.

As an associate at another big nyc firm, this program is basically my dream in life. I'm looking to get out of this slave mill and this program would give me a buffer to find a public interest gig...while my loans were paid for...and i had health insurance.

This is a good deal I think but when they refer to Cobra costs and giving the person a lump sum payment I think they are actually laying off the person from the firm. Why would they refer to medical insurance costs as COBRA?

What happens to the associate if they have a preexisting condition? Have they already used up 12 months of their cobra coverage, and will only have 6 months left?

Finally a firm gets it right. At least on the face of it, it's right. Now, if the economy improves in a year, they have trained attorneys to re-hire, rather than newbies.

As an associate at another big nyc firm, this program is basically my dream in life. I'm looking to get out of this slave mill and this program would give me a buffer to find a public interest gig...while my loans were paid for...and i had health insurance.

Finally a firm gets it right. At least on the face of it, it's right. Now, if the economy improves in a year, they have trained attorneys to re-hire, rather than newbies.

Do the benefits include their families? Are they guaranteed a job after a year?

What an incredible job by Skadden. This demonstrates a commitment to its attorneys that other firms have not committed to.

Wow.

35- What are you talking about? Loans come due either 6 or 9 months after graduation. That puts either November or end of February...

Does anyone have any info about GDC?

"Determination of class status upon return will be based upon the nature of the work done during the program."

So...if they don't like what I do for my "other personal interests," I could technically be bumped back to being a first-year.

Let's see what it takes for this to make economic sense for Skadden:

Assume that 1/3 of a salary, plus the student loan payments and the other stuff, comes to $60,000. In order for this to make sense, an attorney who made $170,000/yr would have to bill less than $110,000 of work, meaning that for 1850 hours, the billable rate would be... $60/hr.

#26:

The point isn't to believe that you would have a job upon your return.

The point is that you are effectively being given 4 months severance PLUS student loan reimbursement (up to $12K) PLUS health insurance PLUS payment of bar dues.

If you can walk from your lease, and in this market it may not be too hard to do so, I fail to see the downside to accepting the offer.

Also, I may have overlooked it, but I don't see where this offer is limited only to NY associates. Skadden has offices in Texas, or at least they once did, where rent costs are way below 2K a month.

I still say take the deal.

53 - I have friends who just graduated in May and they are making their first loan payments in March.

do you think it makes a difference in deciding whether to take this offer or not depending on what practice youre going into? i feel like its smarter to delay starting if youre going into corporate than if your going into lit since presumably lit still has work to do...

It is a classic prisoner's dilemna. If you really want to be a skadden lawyer, you will not take this offer, because the odds are good that you will not be asked back, barring a total economic recovery. If a bunch of other people accept this offer, your job at Skadden is secure. But if nobody accepts, you're all going to get laid off! OTOH, if youy get laid off, you will probably get severance that will be comparable if not as good as this deal. So it's not a true prisoner's dilemna, but close. Later dorks.

I think I would rather have the piece of mind that comes with a clean break from something like Latham's 6 month severance. Sidebar? More like sidelined when you attempt to reenter the game.

So seventh years will get about 100K lump sum to watch Sally Jesse and go on youjizz.com all day?

suuuuuuh-weeeet.

Does Skadden print money in the basement or something?

@42/34 -

Yeah, I live in NYC and I pay less than $1K/month in rent. I've never made more than $35K (gross) per year, either. And you know what? I still take vacations, eat out, and go to the movies, just as you did when you were in law school. Maybe you should consider -- gasp -- moving to the outer boroughs if you're not satisfied with any of your options in Manhattan. Let me guess, you were one of the fuckheads railing about fiscal responsibility in the student loan bailout thread too. Classy.

-34

p.s. If you're planning to pay $23K in income and payroll tax on a $53K salary, let me do your taxes for you and split the difference. The real tax bill is between $16K and 17K.

@55

Waaaa I might not be a second year!!! Waaaa!!!

Ya, I guess you'll just have to console yourself with the fact that YOU HAVE A FUCKING JOB--one that pays $160k and ABOVE-market bonuses. I hope you can *sniff* make it through that rough patch *sniff* *sniff*

Seriously, stop the whining douchebag.

There is a potential stigma associated with leaving a firm during a period of rampant, industry lay-offs that may haunt you for a good period of time. Try explaining to the next firm that you "decided" to leave Skadden during a recession and weren't stealth-axed.

Oops, 63 here. I meant to sign that 36. Mea culpa.

The more I think about this the more I think in actuality this a voluntary separation offer. It is a way for Skadden to transition associates out of their firm in a smooth way.
I still think it is a good deal given the bleak economy.

60 -- easy with the econ 101, and the contradicting yourself. I like your post, can you draw me a payoff matrix? Establish a decision tree, take probit regressions to establish probabilities for the outcomes, run log regressions on the outcomes, and then get back to me about whether this is a prisoner's dilemma.

"Later dorks." hardly seems warranted after you were the first one to mention prisoner's dilemmas.

If I didn't have a wife and child and 1700/month in student loans, I would jump on this. I would get a membership at a low end private golf club and play every day of the year. What a dream!!!!

If you're a first year you're retarded to think you should jump into this economy with a $2200/mo manhattan lease. You could easily be laid off in 4 months (aka Latham style.) Got get a $1400 lease in Jersey city, or Astoria, or Hoboken or Westchester. This is why you can't pay your loans back and are bitching about your salaries. You're living outside your means. You're no better than some midwest moron who bought a house they can't afford on a sub-prime loan. Yep, they didn't expect their jobs to go away either. GOD, you're all economic morons.

Cheers,
BigLaw in Brooklyn.

56 - not a lawyer or businessman, huh.

Little thing called overhead and insurance that plays a part . . . in this calculation. Associates just don't pay their salary, they also must pay their keep . . . lights on, support staff, insurance other than health , etc.

Skadden would be much more prestigious if only it wasn't so goddamn TTT.

There are no fucking jobs that's why the option of returning in a year is much better than a fucking severance check.

Correction. Skadden did not cut its program to 11 weeks. It was never formally 12 weeks, when the program was announced this year, it was announced as an 11 week program.

74 - who cares? same outcome

74 -

Wrong. People already had assigned start and end dates for 12 or 13 weeks and were called with the new schedule and told the ITE story.

Plenty of the Skadden litigation people -- partners and associates -- have always spent a huge portion of their time doing pro bono work. Even during the boom years. Lifestyle department within a sweatshop firm. Good for them I say, but I never figured out how they got away with doing so much pro bono in lieu of billable work. I guess management likes the feel-good community association-type awards that the lit folks bring home, to soften the firm's junkyard dog image.

Does anyone know if Skadden has actually contacted incoming associates with this offer? The memo doesn't actually make that clear.

During the next year, some NY firms that have been respected and around for quite some time will fold. 09 is going to be ugly. Very ugly.

yes, incoming associates got the same offer ($55k, $1000/mo student loans)

79 - check the Dow, recession's over dude. Second half of 09 will be gravy.

76 - What Skadden office are you at? I am a summer associate and we were never called for a change. When our schedule was announced, it was 11 weeks and never changed.

Dow explodes on Skadden's Sidebar announcement.

Skadden is now moving markets!!

yes, incoming associates got the same offer ($55k, $1000/mo student loans)

I am also a summer associate and I can vouch for 74/82

Idea for a post: put together some quantitative charts and write some analysis about law firm expectations at the beginning of the economic bust.

Specifically, compare # of summers hired for this year / total headcount.

Ex (using last year's NALP numbers):

White & Case (NY)
114 SA / 472 Lawyers = 24%

Skadden (NY)
260 SA / 2134 Lawyers = 12%

How big are summer classes this year? Most firms will offer 60-70% at the end of this year. I predict a handful of firms have historically small summer classes, and will make 100% offers (even if they really, really want to offer 80-85%), just so they can be one of the 5 or 10 places that offered everybody in the eye of the storm.

42

Get your numbers in order, buddy. $53K for 9 months is not taxed at the same rate as if you were earning $160K. So $53K is more like $37-38K.

Now using your numbers: minus $18K for rent, leaves you with $20K for nine months. Do you really think it's that hard to survive on a "miserable" $20K for 9 months (i.e., $2200 a month), EXCLUDING rent and student loan repayments?

Let's be realistic here.

86 - Skadden's NY office has 866 attorneys per nalp (your data is firmwide) .

100/866 = 11.5%

80/84 - are you an incoming associate, and were you in fact emailed this offer?

skadden does not have 2134 attorneys in its NYC office.

90 is correct, they have 3521 attorneys in NYC.

I was not a Skadden fan when I worked at another large NYC law firm some years ago, but I must say that the Sidebar offer is extremely thoughtful and classy. At least it is better than being sh#t canned. As they say on "Deal or No Deal," ... take the deal.

I can't believe how ugly this has become. Nobody -- repeat -- NOBODY -- is safe right now.

God help us all. This industry is never going to come back.

#45 - couldn't agree more.

3521 = OVER-LEVERAGED!

real nervous T10 1L here

OMFG!?! Now I am depressed beyond reason! I got my 1 SA offer rescinded yesterday, and I rejected Skadden b/c all of you on ATL told me it was a garbage yard. And now fucking what?!?

*desparately think that BigLaw may just not want me*

*cries, cries, cries a river*

- nervous T10 1L
soon to be nervous 1L sa

This is a pretty awesome deal.

I'd jump at this offer....get out of the rat race with a year with some income, health insurance, and student loans paid to either start a solo practice or get into a new field.

To 93 and other sky-is-falling types,

Many laid-off associates and upcoming students may indeed face a more challenging time in the months ahead. (Not to mention the huge numbers of staff that are being put out on the street.) But the law firms themselves will be fine. There is a problem of overcapacity right now, because demand has contracted while operational capacity has held constant and is set to grow. All the firms need to downsize capacity a little bit to meet demand and that's what they are doing.

Problem solved.

Sorry for stating the obvious but . . .

This is just a five to six month severance package (depending on the cost of COBRA), with an option for Skadden to rehire if the economy gets better. This offer means there's not enough work to go around today. A year from now, if the work level stays the same, do you think Skadden would hire everyone back who took the deal? If you think so, you have difficulty reading between the lines.

And guess what, the economy is not going to improve all that much in one year. Although I hope that we have seen bottom, I don't think so. Anyone who thinks this is a "sweet" or "awesome" deal should take it and not be too bitter when a year from now Skadden doesn't hire him back, while his colleagues who read this correctly worked hard during that year and still have jobs.

I wish my firm offered something like this before they axed associates... I would've seriously thought about taking it (if I believed that they would honor they promise and take me back in a year or so) I would've gone abroad for a year to study a language, get some foreign pussy or something

100 - you will get it in writing that they'll hire you back. Problem solved.

Suck it.

Market severance at the best firms is coalescing around 5-6 months. David and Kashmir shouldn't have been so quick to call it 3 months on that severance article they ran.

Hey 100, you are just stating the obvious. At least they're trying, which is all one could ask from firms in this environment. Take a look at the firm that fired people yesterday, in its second round, any such attempt? All I saw was someone, probably some deadbeat partner, post in comments that the laid off associates were nothing more than "bad investments" and that any severance is throwing good money after bad ...

Godd job Skadden! Again!

102 - Just because they put on a piece of paper that they will hire you back does not mean that you are legally entitled to get your job back. If you can't figure out why, you are an idiot.

100

This is not cool.

Skadden SA, T10 2L

everybody needs to get over how thats not a livable sum. I did a federal clerkship in manhattan, made around that ($52k), and managed to live a happy life in a studio apartment in manhattan (not even rat infested!). admittedly i set my loans to interest only for that year, and my parents helped me out by paying that interest, but that is essentially the deal skadden is offering here.

i say: take the opportunity, and run.

everybody needs to get over how thats not a livable sum. I did a federal clerkship in manhattan, made around that ($52k), and managed to live a happy life in a studio apartment in manhattan (not even rat infested!). admittedly i set my loans to interest only for that year, and my parents helped me out by paying that interest, but that is essentially the deal skadden is offering here.

i say: take the opportunity, and run.

99- problem not solved for all the laid off associates (and staff). Anything further genius?

100 is clearly some sucker at a firm with no such plan.

Enjoy the soup lines, loser.

You're welcome.

Reminds me of jury selection:

Potential Juror: I can't serve on the jury, I can't leave my job.

Judge: Can't they get by without you?

Potential Juror: Yes, that's why I can't leave my job.

People who make $53k do not pay $23k in taxes. They probably won't pay any taxes once 111 is done.

So are they obligated under the program to actually be placed in a PI firm or can they just take the option and do whatever they want?

111 - Brilliant!

106- arent you just happy you have a job??

For anyone 3rd year or under this is a worse deal than what Simpson offered, right? And if you're a 4th year or above (or really anyone other than an incoming associate with no relationships at the firm), you'd be an idiot to take this -- you're definitely setting yourself back more than that year of non-promotion (which will inevitably come, despite the claim that that will be determined later).

This is not ideal but it is better than Orrick, Latham and all the others have done. There are zero jobs out there so those laid off may be out of work 12 months anyway; might as well keep open the option of returning no matter how little chance. if you are at Skadden and have billed less than 350 hours in 2009 then jump all over this.

To the Nervous IL SA:

If a biglaw firm is dumb enough to waste money on 1L SA's in this economy, it does not speak well at all of its management and is probably going to implode. but enjoy your summer of cashing those checks while you can.

114 - they do not have to go to a PI firm; they can do whatever they want.

117 -
The Simpson offer allows only for work in public interest and there is a substantial application process. The Skadden offer provides much greater flexibility - pursuit of personal OR professional interests.

This is a brilliant idea and I'm so frickin jealous that my firm didn't offer this.

I'm a 7th year and I've always dreamed of taking a year off and traveling or doing anything else to recharge my batteries and regain my enthusiasm for M&A. Skadden would pay me $90K plus health benefits to do that? Holy cow.

I can't believe how pessimistic you all are about this. EVERY firm has too many attorneys right now. They've been hiring like crazy over the past few years despite very low attrition and suddenly low demand for legal services The economy will bounce back, though. Skadden will keep its word and hire you back if you still want the job after a year. Can you imagine the bad publicity if they renege on their promise? And it works out great for Skadden because they can rehire you rather than scrambling for laterals when things pick up!

On the other hand, if not enough attorneys take them up on this, they will be forced to do involuntary layoffs OR you won't get much good experience this year because of too many associates.

You might be a tad rusty when you rejoin the firm (never heard of public interest M&A), but I'm sure your skills would return quickly. Several women in my office have gone on lengthy (6 month) maternity leaves, and come back better than ever and quickly regained their good standing and goodwill among partners.

Damn I'm jealous of you Skadden associates. What a great opportunity.

This royally sucks for incoming first-years who have no savings, lots of loans, no work experience. If you take the deferral, its unlikely you will have a job after that year. If you don't take the deferral, there's a possibility that this "voluntary" thing will become "involuntary." So your damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Take the vacation and chilll

Just for the record, since there seems to be some confusion: at least at my Skadden office, 2Ls had already signed up for a 12 week program, with confirmed start and end dates (ie. 76 is right). We received calls telling us of the move to 11 weeks. Either different offices were handling this differently, or some people (82, 74) are in error.

Sounds like a great option. I'd take it in an instant, especially if I was in a group that wasn't exactly busy (read much higher chance of being laid off). It'll give you time recharge/do something interesting/find a new job. Benefits are better than the 3 month market while allowing you to maintain the distinction that you technically weren't laid off or fired. I'd use that time to do something to build an in for the next job. Skadden is basically reducing labor costs for a year while retaining an option to pick back up experienced Skadden attorneys in case the market is better in a year.

Wow. Fellow associates: This is prestigious. My impression of Skadden has changed 180.

If they made it half a year's salary i would say it's sounds borderline OK for a young associate. but otherwise it just seems like career suicide. however, props to skadden for leading the market in a positive way (again)

I'm a Skadden associate. When I saw this email, I couldn't have been happier. Since I've been furiously applying to public interest jobs since the day I paid off my private loans (ie, the lovely December day that Uncle Flom made that above-market deposit into my bank account), this opportunity is literally perfect for me.

I'm not worried about the reality of the "offer" to come back in a year -- I don't want it. But I am worried about the fact that my group is not dead -- it's quite busy. So I have serious doubts as to whether my "application" would be accepted. If it isn't, I'm not terribly worried that they would turn around and lay me off...but I am worried that, knowing that I want out, they will lose any incentive to give me any good (ha!) work...basically, that I will be singling myself out for 100% mind-numbering, tedious, a-monkey-could-do-it work.

I guess I just wish that if there are certain groups that are not going to even consider applications from their associates, those group leaders would make it known. That said, I know a fabulous deal when I see it -- and unless I'm told straight-up not to bother, I can pretty much guarantee that I will apply. After all, it seems pretty unlikely that they could make me more miserable than I already am.

"Clearly they must have drafted this memo before the Dow increased, signaling the end of the recession."
Law firms are the ultimate lagging indicator. See Cravath's signing a long-term lease as the real estate market plummeted beneath them.

Its gonna do what it do baby . . .

Where's Partner Emeritus today?

By the way, what's your background? And what's your take on this?

What the HELL is it with all the Skadden love on this blog? Cravath pulls back from 4 ply to 3 ply toilet paper, and they are assholes, poorly managed, terrible, etc. etc. Skadden shows a CLEAR sign of weakness (one very similar to Latham), and they are being commended. Seriously, is it because no matter how big they get or how much money they make no one will ever respect them?

Lest you forget, Skadden is no Sullivan. It is certainly no Cravath or Wachtell. And it never will be. I guess this will just fuel more Skadden love, but I don't care, because it is ridiculous that they don;t get flak for this when other firms do simply because they are "more prestigious."

About bloody time law firms started doing more of this - McKinsey has been offering such freedom for years, along with part-time programs. Maybe increased flexibility will be a happy result of this whole thing.

Its gonna do what it do baby

133 -- I won't argue prestige, since that seems pretty subjective. But I think most people would agree that Cravath's bonus season "pull back" was a bit more substantial than going from 4 ply to 3 ply. And really, the Skadden love did not start until then.

133, its not Cravath's toilet paper that suggests they are poorly managed. Its the fact that PPP and RPL are plummeting when they have a 900m lease, the largest class ever is entering in the fall and they hired another 120 summers this year.

129--

I'm not at Skadden (if only I were!!!), but my interpretation is that they have to accept your application. Unlike Pillsbury's "voluntary" program, the memo doesn't mention that space in the program is limited.

But Skadden should clarify this ASAP.

Good luck to you!! It's nice to read about someone who is happy after reading a firmwide email these days.

heyr 133--- yah their PPP "plummeted" to STILL more than half a million higher than Skadden's/

Their lease is expensive, but it was newsworthy.. trust me others have big leases too....
and hiring another 120 this year with knowledge of the recession -- obviously they have a strategy.

fool

This would NEVER happen at SKADDENDC!

"obviously they have a strategy."

Setting the market for low bonuses and shortening their summer program suggests otherwise. Or maybe their strategy is to trick us all into thinking they are a poorly managed firm.

yeah it suggests they are tightening the excess to ride out the recession that they feel is going to get better by 2010

shortening needlessly long summer programs, slightly delaying start dates for associates that wont be needed yet, and lowering bonuses in a major downturn are good management buddy,, hate to break it to you

Seems like public interest organizations are really making out well in this economy.

skadden also shortened their summer, eliminated their september start date (at least in NY), and now wants incoming first years, and anyone else who wants to, to take a year off

and dont think for a moment they wouldnt have matched cravath had they waited a day to announce bonuses

Cravath's lease being so big... that is a poor management decision... but doesn't that just mean their profits are unnaturally lessened... so if they had a normal lease, their profits would be far higher... so as far as work goes they AREN'T doing that bad

142: Having the largest class ever start during a dead economy was not part of any great plan. You can't spin that into good management no matter how you put it.

Cravath is adding huge numbers of lawyers at the worst possible time.

This is not strategy. It is bad luck.

2010 is not the worst time possible

sept 2009 yes, but 2010 is a different story, esp if they want to expand (aka just get more work from other firms... which they can do)

133, I am not from Skadden (although like another poster above i wish I was), but you sir are an idiot (and I don't use this word lightly like others on this blog)

It was Cravath that set half Skadden bonuses as the market in NYC. And let's be honest, paying associates a lesser bonus did not save a single job.
Cravath is on fast track to mediocracy, and I'll keep my fingers crossed for Skadden because they at least make an effort to make an appearance that they give two shits about their associates

CravaTTTh is the new Shearman

This Finley guy's a joke

"Successful corporate relocation of Aquila Energy Corporation from Omaha, Nebraska, to downtown Kansas City, Missouri, including securing state and local tax incentives totaling $15 million"

"Negotiation of a 100,000 square foot lease for the National Association of Insurance Commissioners in Kansas City, Missouri"

Seriously, what partner puts this in his bio?
-- Real B.Law Partner

This is not a good deal. Nobody came into Skadden or biglaw to get paid 53k and get health coverage. Thats called a normal 9-5 job in NYC, which we all passed on.
And do the math. You should only take 1/3 of your salary if you think you have less than 1/3 chance of remaining employed. If you have more than 1/3 chance of not being laid off, then your expected return is greater than 1/3 of your salary.

147 - Exactly! Cravath's planning involves looing at present month's numbers, closing their eyes to everything else and hoping for the best

And then reducing associates' compensation should anything go wrong, instead of living up to their mistakes by taking a hit to their PPP

For a firm that seemingly has no prestige, a lot of junior lawyers - who will never make partner where they are anyway - sure do spend a lot of time comparing Skadden and Cravath. If it has so little prestige, why constantly feel the overwhelming need to convince yourselves that it has so little prestige?

Not that what a 25 year old's opinion matters much in this industry anyway, but don't you guys at least realize that constantly screaming that Skadden has no prestige rings hollow merely by the fact that you seem so compelled to constantly scream it?

Not a Skadden lawyer, just noting the irony in these stupid TTT posts.

147 - Exactly! Cravath's planning involves looking at current month's numbers, closing their eyes to everything else and hoping for the best

And then reducing associates' compensation should anything go wrong, instead of living up to their mistakes by taking a hit to their PPP

129--I agree with 138's reading.

Another brilliant move by Skadden. They've removed the fear of applying and not being accepted. If too many associates accept the offer, there are thousands of qualified candidates who would be thrilled to take their places.

Frickin brilliant.

"don't you guys at least realize that constantly screaming that Skadden has no prestige rings hollow merely by the fact that you seem so compelled to constantly scream it?"

No, this is no correct. It's like making fun of the fat kid at school by calling him fatty. Because people do it, does it make the disgusting little piggy any less obese? No.

138,

Unfortunately, there is a fourth paragraph to the memo, not included above. And along with details re: decision/departure dates, it says: "An individual’s participation is subject to the needs of the practice area and the Firm."

So sad. :( But thanks for the encouragement!

-- 129

this is not for first years -- this is for folks who missed the attrition boat and found themselves stuck at year 7, no partner prospects, and a shitty job market. Take 100K and full health (the 12 months cobra beats the fck out of any severance you'll get) work PI if you want, but pound for a new gig for 12 months and maybe you get something. Alternatives less pretty every day.

148--you're right that fall 2010 should be a good time for a large entering class.

Two problems, though:

1. This summer is a horrible time to have a large summer program. How much is that going to cost? What are they going to work on?

2. Most other firms are trying to defer at least half of their 2009 entering class to 2010. Cravath doesn't really have that flexibility.

154, You sound like either (a) a junior partner or (b) a squared away associate who knows his (or her) shit and is well on partnership track. So here's a tip --- do not use a dash ("-") for parenthetical references, where an em-dash ("---") is appropriate. This really shows your ignorance, or is just sloppy. Also, there is an en-dash, which is appropriate when referring to dates and ranges. No one is perfect, but your comment implies that you should know better. Or, perhaps, you should hire one of these laid off "junior lawyers" on here, to help you out with the little things

skadden is still the shit.

-T5 V10 2L going to another firm.

152,

Skadden's plan gives them voluntary attrition at a time when there wouldn't be any otherwise.

There are people who want out of the firm and out of Biglaw, but are having trouble finding a lateral opportunity they like. This gives them an incentive to jump ship now.

Every firm's staffing has a model that assumes attrition, and while associate mobility is gummed up, everyone is going to be overstaffed.

If taking this results in a resume gap, it can be explained as a personal sabbatical, with a continuing relationship to the employer.

I also don't know why the assumption is that these firms won't take the associates back, if they want to come back.

In a year, the market will likely be coming back, and these returning associates will let Skadden reload for the increased volume of work without paying headhunter fees.

I'm not at Skadden, but if I was, I think I would seriously consider a thing like this. All the terrible news about everything is a whole new layer of stress on top of the usual stress of this job, and it is seriously wearing me down.

The opportunity to walk away and let this stuff sort itself out, and then come back later sounds extremely appealing, and I'd personally be willing to consider delaying my career advancement a year to do that.

"Cravath is on the fast track to mediocrity" hahahahahahahahaha

as if clients give a shit what stupid associates think. fact is, clients will always go to cravath because their lawyers are brilliant lawyers. period.

you are the idiot 149

fact is, from august 08 until january 2010 will have been the shittiest period of our economy in nearly half a century, and the shittiest period for the legal world in about the same. what happens to any firm, and what any firm does, save for go under, will mean nothing to their long term appearance.

129/158:

Sorry, that sucks.

Okay, Skadden's not as cool as I thought. They need to delete this proviso because it will severely deter associates from coming forward.

Not many people will take the deal anyhow, just people like you and me who no longer want BigLaw or who would love to take a year off for $90K!

And if too many people take it? There's no shortage of laid-off Latham attorneys on the street! They would fill those openings in a heartbeat.

LOL at this:

"And do the math. You should only take 1/3 of your salary if you think you have less than 1/3 chance of remaining employed. If you have more than 1/3 chance of not being laid off, then your expected return is greater than 1/3 of your salary. "

Law students are funny with their "expected return" analyses.

As if working in BigLaw is the equivalent of doing whatever I want.

But I agree that this deal isn't as enticing for incoming associates. After all, they've enjoyed long summer and winter breaks for years and must be eager to roll up their sleeves and get started on document review.

P.S. first year law students need to CHILL OUT!! By the time you graduate in 2011, the economy will be awesome and firms will be tripping over themselves to hire you.

At the very least all you attorneys are highly educated, brilliant and motivated fast-track type A personalities. You will get jobs, maybe not at the enormous salaries you were amassing, but you will work.

At the very least all you attorneys are highly educated, brilliant and motivated fast-track type A personalities. You will get jobs, maybe not at the enormous salaries you were amassing, but you will work.

129--

Another Skadden associate here, I'm in the same boat (we likely work in the same group). I think I will apply. Sure it's risky but this may just be the push to get started doing what you really want to do with your life.

Good luck!

169--

Exactly. Best of luck to you too!!

--129

Skadden's strategy is BRILLIANT for one simple reason:

this permits the associates who are not happy with big law and were planning to leave anyway to voluntarily take a paid leave of absence to make the transition to something that makes them happier

this will permit Skadden to become a leaner meaner fighting machine until the market comes back next year and then anyone who wants to come back can

the alternative would be a lot of unhappy underemployed associates in certain areas of the firm

and this way Skadden won't have to fire anyone

the other extremes are firms like Latham which fired across the board and firms like Cravath which is trying to deny reality and will end up overcharging their clients and ultimately firing people based on :"performance"

Skadden showed a lot of class doing this. Its a shame Latham and the rest didn't consider this alternative (especially since Latham spent just as much on severance!!!)

Skadden's strategy is BRILLIANT for one simple reason:

this permits the associates who are not happy with big law and were planning to leave anyway to voluntarily take a paid leave of absence to make the transition to something that makes them happier

this will permit Skadden to become a leaner meaner fighting machine until the market comes back next year and then anyone who wants to come back can

the alternative would be a lot of unhappy underemployed associates in certain areas of the firm

and this way Skadden won't have to fire anyone

the other extremes are firms like Latham which fired across the board and firms like Cravath which is trying to deny reality and will end up overcharging their clients and ultimately firing people based on :"performance"

Skadden showed a lot of class doing this. Its a shame Latham and the rest didn't consider this alternative (especially since Latham spent just as much on severance!!!)

I am a 2L headed to Skadden this summer. FML.

173 --

Relax. There are way worse places you could be going. Just breath deep, work hard, don't get (too) drunk, etc.

173- what school r u from
if you are from Harvard or Yale, do whatever the fuck you want... go ahead, lick a partner's wife. they will hire you

172 -- PUH=lease. The only reason you are saying that is either because you are at Skadden or are one of the other kind of drones who like to praise Skadden because it never gets any respect. You are a fool if you think Cravath is going to overcharge (as they have stated time and time again they will not raise rates) or fire people at all, even performance based (they won't, and don't have to)

If Cravath did the same exact thing Skadden is doing with this deferral crap.. there would be an uproar. What assholes!! Wow they must be in trouble!! On their way to TTT!! Sucha joke. The only bad thing about being the best.... is everyone likes to attack you.

Looks like a few folks are finding out that prestige does not pay the mortgage or put the kids through college. Why sit around NYC with the hope of getting hired back to be a 12th year associate someday? Find a good firm in a smaller city, you will be a star, build your own practice, control your destiny and have a life. Sure, you'll never make NYC partner money, but it is possible to make ends meet on $800K a year when you have a reasonable cost of living. Much better to have your own clients than to take orders from some d-bag senior associate or service partner that ruins your weekend in the Hamptons. Been there, done that. Take the money and run.

If I were an incoming first year, I would definitely take this. You can dick around or get some substantive experience under your belt if you wish. You don't have to worry about student loans. And, most importantly, you won't have to worry about being six months and out in a crappy economy. I agree with the above that it is very unlikely the firm would promise that a job would be waiting for you and then renege on it. Yes, you won't make the big bucks right away, but you will make it at some point, and you wont have to worry about looking for a job with only 3 months as a Skadden first year on your resume.

169 to 176--

Disclosure: I work at Skadden. And I think this is a good move of the firm, and not just because I work there. Nobody is denying Skadden is in trouble just like all other big firms-- in fact, Skadden itself acknowledges that this program is motivated by changes in the market for legal work.

At least this program will lead to some self-selection and keep more spots for those who really want to be there, or don't have any dreams they'd like to pursue for a year, or are risk-averse and think they have a better shot at being able to ride out the economy relatively comfortably if they stay. The firm is offering up its PI network (and I think many Skadden fellows and the organizations that benefit from the program will try to accommodate requests from Skadden), giving people the opportunity to develop lawyer skills that are hard to come by at a firm.

I have often cursed Skadden, and for good reason, but I give the firm kudos for this initiative.

Incoming associates who take this deal are committing career suicide.

Joe Flom is brilliant. This was a very classy and smart move on Skadden's part. The loan repayment feature seems a bit unfair to those who have struggled to pay off their loans early. Why not just give everyone the extra $12K to use as they see fit?

Great idea for Skadden third-years who have paid off their loans. Difficult choice for Skadden incoming first-years.

161: Wow, your post just adds so much. I bet you've been just dying to bust some commenter on ATL for improper dash usage. Is your girlfriend now turned on by your attempt to pwn someone who may or may not be a partner at a law firm somewhere in the world? Well, I for one hope it gets you laid, you big em-dash stud, you.

What brings you to this nape of the woods, neck of the wape; How come you're here?

If my lame-ass firm offered me this deal, you would find me, moments later, skipping down the street, unable to contain my joy and happiness. Until then, I shall continue to suckle my firm's teat until they toss me out the door. All of you looking down on Skadden for making this fantastic offer are insane.

what's "pwn"?

The only reason Cravath's summer classes are so big is because they do not hire laterals and they want to have enough Cravath trained mid-level associates to do the work when the economy picks up again.

Cravath's summer classes are also big because there is a flight-to-quality during an economic downturn

Skadden is awesome.

- Not at Skadden =(

177, got to love your perspective on it being "possible" to make ends meat on 800k a year "when" you have a reasonable cost of living. I guess the rest of us in the non-800k crowd are living in poverty.

Skadden's offer is anything but "brilliant". Essentially, Skadden is begging associates to leave. This indicates that the legal workforce has bubbles, just like and possibly created by the financial market bubbles.

Skadden's offer is anything but "brilliant". Essentially, Skadden is begging associates to leave. This indicates that the legal workforce has bubbles, just like and possibly created by the financial market bubbles.

Skadden's offer is anything but "brilliant". Essentially, Skadden is begging associates to leave. This indicates that the legal workforce has bubbles, just like and possibly created by the financial market bubbles.

Skadden's offer is anything but "brilliant". Essentially, Skadden is begging associates to leave. This indicates that the legal workforce has bubbles, just like and possibly created by the financial market bubbles.

So everyone on here is either an insecure Cravath troll or a Skadden HR troll?

189 -

Skadden is not awesome.

The Bro Code is awesome.

187--

It will be interesting to see what happens to a firm that has virtually no ability to adapt to extreme circumstances.

No lateral hirings when economy turns around
No layoffs b/c they're too good for that
No ability to defer bloated summer class

Cravath's failing business model screwed the rest of us Biglaw associates out of Skadden bonuses.

Skadden is awesome and I wish I worked there.

197 you are just an idiot. Their business model is not failing for them. They remain one of the most profitable firms around... and even if they lost another quarter of their PPP this year before the economy picks up, they would STILL remain one of the most profitable places around.

You talk about "ability," as if they were laws. The will layoff if that's what it comes too. They will defer the summer class if thats what needs to be done. And they will hire laterals if thats what needs to be done.

You are so unwilling to see the reality of falling bonuses it's shameful. It's called the economy tanked in the second half of 2008. And a law firm partnership is a business model for the profit of partners. Their "profits" are what is important, or they would not have a firm. Associates are fucking called leverage for God;s sake-- leverage = debt. And they still paid a bonus. Half a bonus of a boom year is far better than what anyone else made. You act like you still didnt make your cushy siz figure salary on top of it. I always get angry when people talk about lawyers and law students feeling entitled- but you are why. Get a little perspective. Sorry your shit firm (prob Skadden, regardless of what you say) cant sustain a business model it didnt create.

But to put it quite simply, that does not need to be done. Yet. Until then, enjoy Skadden, because that is obviously where you work you stupid troll.

hahah 197--- "Skadden is awesome and I wish I worked there."

hahahaahhahaha

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

aahahahaha
ahah
ah
aa
haahhahaa

skadden = least selective firm in the v10

Hey kids...not sure you were all aware that the College Cost Reducation and Access Act has a new Income Based Repayment plan that allows you to make monthly payments (with the government covering the interest) that are based on your income (through an IRS formula that takes into consideration family size, amount of your debt and the poverty level). For instance: $110K in loans and making $40K = loan payment of $320 a month for a single person.

This goes into effect in July 2009. Anyone is eligible, if your income to debt ratio fits the standard.

I have to laugh at those who claim to be so worried about their debt, but haven't done something simple like look into repayment options. Aren't attorneys supposed to be good at research?

Hey kids...not sure you were all aware that the College Cost Reducation and Access Act has a new Income Based Repayment plan that allows you to make monthly payments (with the government covering the interest) that are based on your income (through an IRS formula that takes into consideration family size, amount of your debt and the poverty level). For instance: $110K in loans and making $40K = loan payment of $320 a month for a single person.

This goes into effect in July 2009. Anyone is eligible, if your income to debt ratio fits the standard.

I have to laugh at those who claim to be so worried about their debt, but haven't done something simple like look into repayment options. Aren't attorneys supposed to be good at research?

I didn't know the Skadden executive committee posted so often to ATL, "Skadden is brilliant", "I wish I worked at Skadden", etc. Ugh.

Hey everyone,

I'm the poster you all hate, whether you're a partner at Cravath or an associate at Skadden.

I'm a 7th year associate at another BigLaw firm that recently had layoffs.

I think the proposal is brilliant and wish my firm had offered it, but I realize it's not for everyone. I'm also bitter at Cravath for setting the market at half-Skadden bonuses.

I'm sure this proposal will be followed by layoffs, because few if any junior or incoming associates will voluntarily disappear for a year. And unfortunately it's the junior associate ranks that are far too bloated right now.

I'm startled by how many people posting comments are obsessed with the "ranking" of a law firm or the selectivity of admission to a law firm.

I can assure you that as someone who worked at both Cravath and Skadden and who is now a partner at another large law firm that the overall quality of your law firm experience will not depend on your law firm ranking or how selective they were in picking first year lawyers. What really matters is what you make of the experience and the particular people you work with.

The people who advance and make partner are not the people who go to the best law schools they are the smartest and most hard working people who only sometimes go to the best law schools.

All of these ninnies prattling on about which law firm ranks higher or is harder to get into are missing the whole point of the law firm experience which is to hone your craft as a lawyer learning as much as possible while trying to stay happy.

What Skadden did is to recognize that we are in completely unchartered waters that no law firm could predict so instead of taking the easy way out and firing people or keeping then underemployed they are letting the associates weed themselves out which is the kindest and most humane thing possible especially since they have the option of returning to the firm after one year.

I'm startled that so many of the people on this site, as law students or practicing lawyers, are completely missing the point of this program and instead are squealing like pigs about how this affects a law firm's ranking or reputation.

When I worked at Cravath over 20% of each class quit each year. I heard it is even higher at Sullivan. Does that make them top law firms? I think not. In my mind that makes them the bottle of the barrel,

I'm startled by how many people posting comments are obsessed with the "ranking" of a law firm or the selectivity of admission to a law firm.

I can assure you that as someone who worked at both Cravath and Skadden and who is now a partner at another large law firm that the overall quality of your law firm experience will not depend on your law firm ranking or how selective they were in picking first year lawyers. What really matters is what you make of the experience and the particular people you work with.

The people who advance and make partner are not the people who go to the best law schools they are the smartest and most hard working people who only sometimes go to the best law schools.

All of these ninnies prattling on about which law firm ranks higher or is harder to get into are missing the whole point of the law firm experience which is to hone your craft as a lawyer learning as much as possible while trying to stay happy.

What Skadden did is to recognize that we are in completely unchartered waters that no law firm could predict so instead of taking the easy way out and firing people or keeping then underemployed they are letting the associates weed themselves out which is the kindest and most humane thing possible especially since they have the option of returning to the firm after one year.

I'm startled that so many of the people on this site, as law students or practicing lawyers, are completely missing the point of this program and instead are squealing like pigs about how this affects a law firm's ranking or reputation.

When I worked at Cravath over 20% of each class quit each year. I heard it is even higher at Sullivan. Does that make them top law firms? I think not. In my mind that makes them the bottle of the barrel,

I'm startled by how many people posting comments are obsessed with the "ranking" of a law firm or the selectivity of admission to a law firm.

I can assure you that as someone who worked at both Cravath and Skadden and who is now a partner at another large law firm that the overall quality of your law firm experience will not depend on your law firm ranking or how selective they were in picking first year lawyers. What really matters is what you make of the experience and the particular people you work with.

The people who advance and make partner are not the people who go to the best law schools they are the smartest and most hard working people who only sometimes go to the best law schools.

All of these ninnies prattling on about which law firm ranks higher or is harder to get into are missing the whole point of the law firm experience which is to hone your craft as a lawyer learning as much as possible while trying to stay happy.

What Skadden did is to recognize that we are in completely unchartered waters that no law firm could predict so instead of taking the easy way out and firing people or keeping then underemployed they are letting the associates weed themselves out which is the kindest and most humane thing possible especially since they have the option of returning to the firm after one year.

I'm startled that so many of the people on this site, as law students or practicing lawyers, are completely missing the point of this program and instead are squealing like pigs about how this affects a law firm's ranking or reputation.

When I worked at Cravath over 20% of each class quit each year. I heard it is even higher at Sullivan. Does that make them top law firms? I think not. In my mind that makes them the bottle of the barrel,

I'm startled by how many people posting comments are obsessed with the "ranking" of a law firm or the selectivity of admission to a law firm.

I can assure you that as someone who worked at both Cravath and Skadden and who is now a partner at another large law firm that the overall quality of your law firm experience will not depend on your law firm ranking or how selective they were in picking first year lawyers. What really matters is what you make of the experience and the particular people you work with.

The people who advance and make partner are not the people who go to the best law schools they are the smartest and most hard working people who only sometimes go to the best law schools.

All of these ninnies prattling on about which law firm ranks higher or is harder to get into are missing the whole point of the law firm experience which is to hone your craft as a lawyer learning as much as possible while trying to stay happy.

What Skadden did is to recognize that we are in completely unchartered waters that no law firm could predict so instead of taking the easy way out and firing people or keeping then underemployed they are letting the associates weed themselves out which is the kindest and most humane thing possible especially since they have the option of returning to the firm after one year.

I'm startled that so many of the people on this site, as law students or practicing lawyers, are completely missing the point of this program and instead are squealing like pigs about how this affects a law firm's ranking or reputation.

When I worked at Cravath over 20% of each class quit each year. I heard it is even higher at Sullivan. Does that make them top law firms? I think not. In my mind that makes them the bottle of the barrel,

Regarding 176: if Cravath is the best then why did it have a 20% annual attrition rate each year before the recession hit? And probably has a pretty high attrition rate now?

When I worked there people were so desperate to get out they opted for mid size law firms or your dreaded "second" tier law firms just because it was such a miserable experience for most of them.

Cravath lost most of its best and brightest in the first few years I was there. People recognized they could get the same salary, same learning experience and better chance of partnership anywhere else.

Cravath has been riding on its own coattails for years now and is notorious for overcharging clients.

And with their rotation program, which requires associates to rotate every year for a full 8 years (the few who bother sticking around for 8 years), meant that mid level and senior associates in specialized areas were completely lacking the skills needed for those areas. I always dreaded working with a Skadden senior associate in project finance or leveraged leasing, my specialties, because they just rotated into the practice, new nothing, but Cravath was still charging them out like they knew something.

Plus with their lockstep partner pay program a lot of the senior partners got real lazy cause they were getting junior partners to work for them. Thats why even partners were leaving.

Regarding 176: if Cravath is the best then why did it have a 20% annual attrition rate each year before the recession hit? And probably has a pretty high attrition rate now?

When I worked there people were so desperate to get out they opted for mid size law firms or your dreaded "second" tier law firms just because it was such a miserable experience for most of them.

Cravath lost most of its best and brightest in the first few years I was there. People recognized they could get the same salary, same learning experience and better chance of partnership anywhere else.

Cravath has been riding on its own coattails for years now and is notorious for overcharging clients.

And with their rotation program, which requires associates to rotate every year for a full 8 years (the few who bother sticking around for 8 years), meant that mid level and senior associates in specialized areas were completely lacking the skills needed for those areas. I always dreaded working with a Skadden senior associate in project finance or leveraged leasing, my specialties, because they just rotated into the practice, new nothing, but Cravath was still charging them out like they knew something.

Plus with their lockstep partner pay program a lot of the senior partners got real lazy cause they were getting junior partners to work for them. Thats why even partners were leaving.

Regarding 176: if Cravath is the best then why did it have a 20% annual attrition rate each year before the recession hit? And probably has a pretty high attrition rate now?

When I worked there people were so desperate to get out they opted for mid size law firms or your dreaded "second" tier law firms just because it was such a miserable experience for most of them.

Cravath lost most of its best and brightest in the first few years I was there. People recognized they could get the same salary, same learning experience and better chance of partnership anywhere else.

Cravath has been riding on its own coattails for years now and is notorious for overcharging clients.

And with their rotation program, which requires associates to rotate every year for a full 8 years (the few who bother sticking around for 8 years), meant that mid level and senior associates in specialized areas were completely lacking the skills needed for those areas. I always dreaded working with a Skadden senior associate in project finance or leveraged leasing, my specialties, because they just rotated into the practice, new nothing, but Cravath was still charging them out like they knew something.

Plus with their lockstep partner pay program a lot of the senior partners got real lazy cause they were getting junior partners to work for them. Thats why even partners were leaving.

Regarding 176: if Cravath is the best then why did it have a 20% annual attrition rate each year before the recession hit? And probably has a pretty high attrition rate now?

When I worked there people were so desperate to get out they opted for mid size law firms or your dreaded "second" tier law firms just because it was such a miserable experience for most of them.

Cravath lost most of its best and brightest in the first few years I was there. People recognized they could get the same salary, same learning experience and better chance of partnership anywhere else.

Cravath has been riding on its own coattails for years now and is notorious for overcharging clients.

And with their rotation program, which requires associates to rotate every year for a full 8 years (the few who bother sticking around for 8 years), meant that mid level and senior associates in specialized areas were completely lacking the skills needed for those areas. I always dreaded working with a Skadden senior associate in project finance or leveraged leasing, my specialties, because they just rotated into the practice, new nothing, but Cravath was still charging them out like they knew something.

Plus with their lockstep partner pay program a lot of the senior partners got real lazy cause they were getting junior partners to work for them. Thats why even partners were leaving.

the sidebar policy at our firm...food stamps. yay!