I really don't understand the point of doing this. At least they should keep those 1Ls that performed well during the prior summer.

Those 1L's aren't gonna get offers. Let's get real. 1L summers are about as useful as iceskates at the beach. I hope that after this economic downturn, the 1L summer trend will be eliminated.

Seems like they are basically asking these kids not to accept full time offers of employment (if they're even made), except for maybe those gunners who actually worked hard during their 1L summer?

If they're not letting the former 1L's to come back for 3-4 weeks at the end of the summer, this is a good decision. These 2Ls almost never accept the offer from their 1L firm and it's an area the firm can save money. However, no-offering all returning 1L's regardless of their performance makes no sense. I think Elie is missing something here

". . . I'm sure they won't want to be considered for a full time offer based solely on their 1L summer performance."

Yeah, like 2Ls' performances are so much better. It's just a personality test anyway, to see if the SA's level of douchebaggery match the firm's.

4,

A 1L who worked hard during their 1L summer? LMAO!!! The 1L's are the most entiteld bitches there are.

It's okay for a firm to "uninvite" anyone, including 1Ls and 2Ls, it is just wrong when they do this in late March/early April.

This is not terrible news. The Professors I did research for my 1L summer didn't offer me an internship either; I got my 2L gig through OCI like everyone else.

2, the point is that they don't spend a lot of money to have the 1Ls return and add no value. They can still (theoretically) get a fulltime job based on their 1L performance.

who the hell is squire snaders? why are we concerned with a law firm no one's ever heard of?

"At least they should keep those 1Ls that performed well during the prior summer."

"Performed well" how? By staring randomly into space with greater intensity and focus than the other 1Ls?

it's a signal that these 1L's have no shot at an offer. This is because (1) it doesn't cost much to bring them back. Hence, the firm is trying to make it's summer class smaller and (2) it's usually pointless to bring them back. These kids usually go to their 2L firm anyways. Further, I think it's a smart move on the firms part. If they need to make thier class smaller, at least have it full of 2L's who most likely want to work there (as you usually get your job from 2L summer) then to have some 1L's who are just returning for 4 weeks of paycheck to possibly take one of those spaces.

DEATH to the 1L summer.

it's squire "sanders," first of all

second, yeah - who the fudge cookies are these people? Sounds made up

If they eliminate the 1L summer associate then Paul Hastings will have zero Ivy League SA's to gleefully report to NALP.

Isn't today D-Day for Hunton & Williams?

This is a great move that all firms should consider doing. It saves at least one associates yearly salary and gets rid of a bunch of kids who will never return to the firm anyways. Furthermore, it will not affect recruiting efforts in the future at all. There is no NALP statistic about 1L offers to return as 2Ls. GREAT IDEA!!!

Greenberg Traurig shortened their program to 7 weeks AND lowered summer associates salaries.

A couple of the 1Ls who summered at my firm last year were likable people, but seriously, who cares? 1Ls shouldn't be part of summer associate programs anyway. The vast majority suck in a multitude of ways.

The one 1L at our firm was the world's largest douchebag. I hope to GOd our firm does this as well so I don't have to see his flat ass in our office again this summer.

This sucks. If these students were good enough to get offers as 1Ls, they are at least as competent as their now-2L peers. My real problem with this is the timing--you are giving these kids less than two months to find something else to do with their summer. ITE, you would have a much better shot of landing your 1Ls as permanent hires up until this decision.

Eyyyy. I believe Squire Sanders was one of my clients but I can't possibly remember everyone I screwed..

You are missing the benefit of inflated ivy league statistics...

Squire could report that they had X # of HLS grads in their summer class by loading it up with 1L's who had no intention of accepting an offer at the firm.

It was a stupid tactic designed to bolster the ego's of the partners and I will guarantee it is only on hiatus.

Is it just me or does Squire Sanders pull a disproportionate number of dick moves?

The 1L summer associate 30K salary is pointless. I'd be much happier if my firm spent this money updating the coffee machine, or adding Fresca to the soda options. No one remembers thier name and no one ever sees them again, except for 3 weeks the following summer, where they are basically just showing up for $10k.

1L's for FRESCA!!!

Squire Sanders isn't worth the paper it uses to wipe my Skadden ass everyday after lunch.

22,

But these partners aren't usually of the ivy league pedigree? So why don't they have loyalty to their alma maters. I for one am not an ivy league gal, and I know I will go the extra mile to help out another lower ranked school kid like I was. I just don't get it. No offense, but the 3 Yale summers I had do assignments for me sucked. They couldn't write a lick or even use Lexis. However, the Brooklyn law kid was awesome. Who knows, maybe it was just the one year. Or maybe, it's a trend. Only time will tell I guess. But the ivy league pedigree is overrated in my book.

Thank g-d I'm going to a stable firm like Weil! Their bankruptcy practice should guide them through this storm unscathed. I am THE prestige.

- Below Median GULC 2L Stud

22 - It is not just you. I work there and the level of douchebaggery and inflated senses of self-worth are higher than the Red River.

22 has it right. The other advantage to having 1L's summer is SSD could inflate their offer percentage. Extend them an offer of employment for the 2L summer and it still counts as an offer. It's just not an offer that will likely result in employment because they will likely go where they summered as a 2L.

I generally agree with 23, 18, 13 et al.

There's one angle of this that no one is exploring. Occasionally (and I emphasize occasionally), 1L summers go back to the same firm for all of their 2L summer. The tip makes it sound like ex-1L summers are not welcome to spend the whole summer at Squire Sanders. The people who banked on Squire Sanders by going back there for all of 2L summer-- if there are any-- are really screwed by this. For those who planned on the more typical 8 weeks at a 2L firm and 3 weeks at Squire Sanders, tough beans.

I knew some guys in high school that used to uninvite 1Ls behind the gymnasium all the time. It was not that big a deal.

layoffs in Bratislava?

According to NALP, the firm no-offered 10 out of 50 2L summer associates last year. Ouch.

Normally I would say "Don't they know the Dow is up and the recession is over," but the Dow isn't up today (yet). Nevertheless, the Dow is on pace for the greatest one month gain since 1974, so the recession is definitely over.

Classy....

Most biglaw firms have at least a few 1L's solely because those 1L's are in some way related to or have a connection with a partner who matters or a client who matters (i.e., your major client's son, daughter, nephew, or the daughter of a partner you know at a different firm who you're trying to get your son a 1L job at)

The summer employment really seems to fit into an employment contract for a specified term. How is rescinding the summer offers not a breach of contract?

How does one see Ivy League statistics anyway? NALP only reports the schools where the firm goes for OCI, not the firms they hire from?

ohio sucks

Last summer one of our 1Ls only got the job because I tagged her. We brought her back for the 2L summer (mostly for more 1on1) but I'm almost 100% sure that we will not be making her an offer. She was useless as a 1L (as far as being good at her job)and I really doubt that she improved much. The point is no one notices becuase all 1Ls are useless and most 2Ls for that matter too. I can't that all 2Ls suck becuase I have gotten some decent work out of a very select few.

GREENBERG TRAURIG IS NOW PAYING SUMMERS BELOW MARKET. HOW IS THIS NOT A STORY?

36 - you are stupid.

36 = flame. Don't take the bait

These guys aren't as screwed some friends of mine (first years who were placed in structured finance in NYC and weren't allowed to transfer) but the timing blows. Especially if SS isn't going to give them strong consideration for a permanent offer.

The point is to look more prestigious by adding the Harvard grad and to get some chance at pulling in a recruit who you think would normally ignore your firm. But recruiting ain't in Squire Sanders' plans right now . . .

This firm has to make all these dick moves or they will not survive the year. They are a TTT firm headquartered in Cleveland and they tried to play will the big boys during the boom times by opening up offices in NYC and other cities that actually still have clients. Squire managing partner to partnership 2003 "Hey, why are we wasting our time billing these Cleveland companies $425 an hour for a senior partner? I hear those firms in NYC bill the same work to Morgan Stanley at $800 an hour. We need to open a NYC office!"

40: because Greenberg Traurig is a below market firm

39, I think that two summers of her putting in extra hours deserves some serious consideration for a permanent position.

43,

But the only Harvard grads their gonna get are the bottom of the barrel grads. . . you know, bottom half of the class, no journal or moot experience. And I'd much rather have a top 10% Seton Hall kid then a bottom 50% Harvard kid anyday.

This is classic Squire. The 1L summers were always from T14s and the 2Ls were from Akron, Cleveland State, and Case. The 1Ls would go to top firms for 2L summer and then milk Squire for 3 weeks of pay. This charade became too expensive apparently.

how much did greenberg traurig lower their summer salaries to?

all u guys do is talk about bad news when so much other stuff is happening http://www.blackbooklegal.com

The big Summer Associate Biglaw Bacchanalia days are over. Sorry for all of those who missed the excess debauchery and extravagance. No more ridiculously expensive meals, elite cultural events, and outrageous bar tabs for you! Now get back to researching small midwest firms and public interest organizations. Biglaw doesn't need you any more, not for quite a while.

36 = FLAME "i'm going to sue my firm for reliance" - very clever and well played sir/madame

"These guys in my high school" guy - you are awesome - I vote "high school" guy best commentor on ATL - peerless, this one is
(Sorry, Dow is up guy - maybe you should sue the White Shoe idiot for brand tarnishment)

These 1Ls should sue based on (1) breach of contract if there was a wrtten offer to return or (2) promissory estoppel based on their reliance at OCI. They should sue as a class.

These 1Ls should sue based on (1) breach of contract if there was a wrtten offer to return or (2) promissory estoppel based on their reliance at OCI. They should sue as a class.

These 1Ls should sue based on (1) breach of contract if there was a wrtten offer to return or (2) promissory estoppel based on their reliance at OCI. They should sue as a class.

These 1Ls should sue based on (1) breach of contract if there was a wrtten offer to return or (2) promissory estoppel based on their reliance at OCI. They should sue as a class.

36 = FLAME "i'm going to sue my firm for reliance" - very clever and well played sir/madame

"These guys in my high school" guy - you are awesome - I vote "high school" guy best commentor on ATL - peerless, this one is
(Sorry, Dow is up guy - maybe you should sue the White Shoe idiot for brand tarnishment)

These 1Ls should sue based on (1) breach of contract if there was a wrtten offer to return or (2) promissory estoppel based on their reliance at OCI. They should sue as a class.

53-55, please go study for your contracts exam somewhere else. Also, please learn the requirements about suing as a class in civ. pro before returning here. You will obviously not get a job if you state something as retarded as that in an interview.

47,

It depends. I was top 20% at a T10, and I picked my medium-big midwestern firm over NYC because I liked the people and lifestyle better. And we've got a good number of similarly ranked attorneys from T3s. Now sure, there's a lot of attrition in the 1L program, but its a risk you take.

52: You're new here, aren't you? 30 tried to post a la "frat stud" and completely blew the style/format. A lame imitation of the real thing. I wish the real "frat stud" would return.

King and Spalding has pushed back start dates to 1/2010 - I also hear they are cutting partner salaries by up to 10%

Firms should ask summer associates to make capital contributions.

47 -- No one wants to be a SeTTTon Hall kid.

64 = bottom half of a T10 school with no job prospects.

61

Yeah - semi new. I'm a 1yr lit associate and am now doing a lot of doc review - so I read all the comments because the actual articles are honestly terrible - ATL is losing its "tabloid" status fast with this shit. But the comments can make my hours feel like 9/10 hours.

59 -

You might be on your way to becoming a lawyer, but no one will want to work with you because you're a snippy prick who clearly makes decisions without thinking things through... you got FLAMED boy!

Not that 1Ls would know the first thing about filing suit anyways, which is kind of the point.

Not cool Squire Sanders.

66? How the hell did 59 get flamed?

- not 59

But 47--Could a "top 10% Seton Hall kid" choose the correct word from the they're/their/there trio "better then [sic] a bottom 50% Harvard kid anyday [sic]?"

Agreed, 69. 59 made a valid point - 1Ls are idiots that can't understand basic contract principles.

- Also Not 59.

ha ha ha. OK, all the 1L's who can't return should spend the money to file suit, and take the effort to become a class for a class action suit, for a losing case for their $10K loss.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

I suggest you guys go do that immediately. Let me know how it goes for you.

Law students not being able to find jobs is a good thing, since there'll be fewer lawyers and fewer lawsuits. As I said before: "What I'm telling you is there's too many junk lawsuits suing too many doctors." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 10, 2007

1Ls at SS are all minorities. The firm is just using this as an excuse to not bring them back.

Shine your pitchforks and light your torches, boys! The 1Ls are mad as hell, and they're not gonna take it anymore! This landmark class-action suit will bring those fat-cat partners to their knees!

What? Motion to dismiss granted? With prejudice?

Never mind.

Squire Sanders = 30K Millionaire firm.

72 - Agreed!!!!

I don't really understand all the "1Ls are entitled d-bags" comments. Maybe I've just always dealt with the responsible, hard-working ones. At my firm, we treat the 1Ls and 2Ls exactly the same, aside from the offers being different at the end of the summer.

It's one thing to argue against hiring 1L summers. Fair enough. But it seems silly to not bring back for a few weeks 1Ls that you've already sunk 30-36k into, unless you know for sure that they won't accept (or you're planning on no-offering a sizable portion of this summer's class).

69/71

There has been a little tyrant running around ATL, delivering this "breach of contract" claim against the law firms for deferrals or whatever - on many a post - each time, inciting those higher up in the legal chain to angry cries of "moron!" "dummy" "dodo face"!!! etc... When all the while, he/she leans back in armchair, grinning ear to muthaf(*(&&(in' ear that he just created a small but satisfying conflagration - hence, credit is due where deserved and he has earned it, while 59 is just another victim of this swashbuckler, who has revealed to us readers, in some small but significant way, that 59 will be a lawyer who everyone in the office/life hates

"you're planning on no-offering a sizable portion of this summer's class"

That says it all, #78. Those 1Ls are better off being dis-invited rather than wasting a summer only to be no-offered.

As someone that worked as a 1L in BigLaw last summer, I resent the fact that people think we're more useless than 2Ls. I read quite a bit of 2L work product, and it was just as useless as my work.

In fact, I think it was more useless. Most of these 2Ls had never worked in a law firm before, and had no idea what they were doing there. I think the major difference is that the useless people had never WORKED before, having gone straight through school, whereas the somewhat useful people worked in law or elsewhere to at least know what to expect from a JOB.

2L, 1L, doesn't matter.

Isn't this just Squire Sanders way of telling last year's 1L SAs that the firm will dissolve before they ever get a chance to start their employment?

69/71

There has been a little tyrant running around ATL, delivering this "breach of contract" claim against the law firms for deferrals or whatever - on many a post - each time, inciting those higher up in the legal chain to angry cries of "moron!" "dummy" "dodo face"!!! etc... When all the while, he/she leans back in armchair, grinning ear to muthaf(*(&&(in' ear that he just created a small but satisfying conflagration - hence, credit is due where deserved and he has earned it, while 59 is just another victim of this swashbuckler, who has revealed to us readers, in some small but significant way, that 59 will be a lawyer who everyone in the office/life hates

Hey guys, what did I miss?

SkaddenNYC

and it's skaddenNYC guy!~

how's skaddenNYC?

I think SSD got too big for its britches.

The senseless vitriol in many of the posted comments on this site is suggestive of why we as lawyers are not held in particularly high regard in the society at large. If you have something intelligent or informative to contribute, great. Otherwise, please try to avoid polluting what should be a forum for professionals and would be professionals.

I recognize that it's customary for any firm that is the subject of an ATL headline to be flogged mercilessly, but after my prior stints at two BigLaw firms in NorCal, the abuse SSD gets on ATL amuses me. The partners here seem a lot more humane than at my prior gigs, and the associates' sense of entitlement is WELL below the average ATL commenter. Maybe it's different in the Ohio and east coast offices--I can't really attest to that.

I guess it's all in your perspective and frames of reference. I'm sure I'll think differently after they let me go.

81: OK, I'll concede that 1Ls are about as useless as 2Ls. Now go back to studying so you can compete for the dwindling supply of public service jobs. Biglaw is no longer an option for you.

Bump.

3 - I saw a movie once with Tom Hanks where he made very good use out of iceskates at the beach....

Every time someone brings up the potential for a contract claim here they get shouted down with "at-will employment!" or "FLAME". Obviously normal associates are generally at-will, but (most) summers have a signed, written offer to work for X number of weeks for Y dollars. Just because a state has at-will employment laws doesn't mean they don't recognize contracts.

87: Hello? Anyone home? This is a legal *tabloid*/blog. If you want respectful professionalism, go check out the WSJ law blog or something. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. On second thought, let it crash into your useless fat ass.

We are just great, up here in our palace in the clouds above the masses hustling about on Times Square.

SkaddenNYC guy

87 is a poopy-pants. What does "vitrol" mean?

The summers definitely have a case for breach of contract. If I was one of them I would do it.

98=failed flame

92 = FLAMED

Vitrol is what you put in the engines of auto carriages.

93---You, unfortunately, prove the point.

95--The word is "vitriol," with an i.

Everybody is on Fire today.

EN FUEGO

100 - I know, that's why its funny.

-95

97 - you mean 92?

87 - Let us know when the stick that is currently lodged up your tight "lawyer" ass becomes too slimey to stay put, so we can use all the SS 1Ls to find some new, more durable and rigid ones to keep you happy and content as a dickwad on no one's xmas card list

1L's are America's renewable resource.

103 - I mean 110 is en fuego.

FYI, Squire Sanders, who apparently no one knows of, is paying $170k to first years.

Wait, can someone explain to me why it would be a "flame" to suggest that these 1Ls have a legal interest in their continued employment? It seems like this would be an open-and-shut class suit based on break of K alone, with promissory estoppel as a backstop. Sure, the damages might not be huge -- just like 40 thousand per 1L summer -- but if they can show willfulness, punitives could make it easily worthwhile.

First Year Law Students are as useless as mammaries on a bull. I can hire a college student for $10 an hour to bring me coffee and be my gopher.

This is addressed to the poster regarding Seton Hall. I didn't know they had a law school. Are they on par with Thomas Cooley?

Touro > Hofstra > Waco, Texas

107, that suit would never be worth it. Do you really think that the firms putting out these contracts aren't smart enough to make sure that they can rescind? It was a few years ago but I remember there being some boilerplate on my contract saying that the firm can do whatever they want, whenever they want, for whatever reason they damn well please. Beyond that if you are the piss ant 1L that actually tries to take down a firm that bounced you you'll become the law community's equivilent of a leper.

103: Sounds as if you may have been more of a "performance review" than an "economic" layoff.

Not 87

107, when you start your 1L year, you'll learn that "punitive" damages do not arise from the other side breaking a contract willfully.
Hint: pretty much every contract in litigation was broken willfully.

107-

Especially when as a canceled summer you potentially have nothing better to do than to spend those 8, 10, 12 weeks doing the legwork yourself.

I know for damn sure that if I contracted with someone to work 10 weeks for $30k, they aren't going to walk away without me putting up a fight.

-92

111 -

Basis? The only thing that comment "sounds" like is one employed lawyer, calling out another lawyer on seemingly having personality problems - but personality problems must insulate lawyers from being laid of based on performance rather than "economic" reasons

Bumblebutt

flame - you so flamey!

*87 vomits in homophobic disgust*

*87 then takes young associate to office and explains how sodomy "puts you right on partner track"*

Elie Mystal,
Please disclose your conflict of interest in failing (or hesitating) to disclose negative news about firms that are in cahoots with "Lateral Link".

Thank you

Any chance these 1Ls could bring a breach of contract claim against Squire Sanders? I'm just thinking out loud here, but what if some of them relied on the offer for employment during OCI? Would that matter?

As a first year at Squire Sanders I have been assigned the prestigous task of going to conference rooms half an hour before meetings take place to masturbate on the chairs.

hey, 87, 93, 111, 114, 115, etc.---this is a blog and even blogs for lawyers and law students have room for thoughtful, idiotic, banal or any other type of opinion or name calling. That's what most anonymous blogs are about. If you don't like it, move on.

Does anyone know how big SSD's summer class is for this year? One advantage to not having 1L's return is to ensure a tiny summer class, and one with just 7 weeks or employment to boot.

Are all the offices of SSD that host a summer program shortening the program to seven weeks?

ASquireSanders Lobster

Which regional "biglaw" to dissolve first? SSD, Reed Smith, or anything in Atlanta?

The milk's gone bad!

119 you commentor #'s and logic are not in line

100: 'unfortunately'? Get a friggin' clue, you neanderthal half-wit. I suggest you quit law school now and avoid incurring further debt, because no one in their right mind would actually hire you for any legal position that requires a modicum of reasoning skills. (Yes, the word is "modicum" with an "i," you loser.)

110-

Have you seen summer associate offer letters? There is no fine print, at least in the ones I have seen from various other large firms. No contingency for them to rescind, no at-will clause, nothing. Not too long ago, mine was the same way (at a different firm).

As for becoming a legal community leper, do you really think these people are going to get biglaw jobs elsewhere in the immediate future? Let's be real, unless they are an absolute superstar or have some other quality that firms are dying for in this market (yeah right), they won't.

-92

guys - chill out! you're making elie cry

125, you're probably right but, on a quick look, I thought they covered the spectrum of the thoughtful, idiotic, banal and name caller.

119

Who cares about the banter? I'm with 121 - we need some more facts!! And 128, you suck.

wow, this post is filled with nothing but 1Ls. You guys get a little shine and....

--girl who did not read past 23

wow, this post is filled with nothing but 1Ls. You guys get a little shine and....

--3Lgirl who did not read past 23

Yo asshole! This motha' fucka's dead. Ain't no Chris Angel Mindfreak, David Blane trapdoor horse shit jumpin' off here!