I first, therefore I am (first).

- Firsty McFirstensen

Run out of work study funds? What this a rare occurrence? My LS never had any kind of money for 1Ls with unpaid summer positions. They had a loan available to us (of course) but never any 'work-study' money.

Sorry to burst your bubble McFirstensen but me the OMFG guy was first. Suck it.

Is Villanova a state school or something? The whole PA resident/PA organization thing is bizarre to me if it's a private school. I can understand that kind of preferential treatment for a school that gets state funding, but otherwise, if I were an out-of-state law student there, I'd be pissed.

Time for Villanova students to transfer across town to Penn State-Philly. Incidentally, although Villanova was ranked higher than Penn in basketball, as in the law school rankings, its team lost while Penn's went on to win the NIT.

What's that pay? 10 an hour? sheeyot

The majority of 1Ls have always interned for judges, no? I'd think that's less impacted by the economy than most jobs.

Same problem at Penn St. - Philadelphia Campus. Most people got work-study but there are definitely a few who were left out in the cold.

Am I prestigious enough for Drinker Biddle?

work study money is only available to those taking classes over the summer or to those who are doing an externship for credit.

you cant simply work anywhere over the summer and apply for work-study money

I don't think this is a big deal. UVa students frequently get denied summer work study funding.

Know what's disturbing? Nepotism and failed bar exams and layoffs at a V10 firm.

10, no.
--Dinging at Drinker

I know a 1L going to CWT for the summer, and they're still offering a full 12 weeks.

13, whatever are you talking about? I would like to know.

I love the punctuation in the first (run-on) sentence. Anyone ever heard of a comma to separate two independent clauses joined by a simple coordinating conjunction? Apparently not at Villanova.

I might let it pass if it were just one missing comma, but I would expect an assistant dean to know better than to 1) string together three sentences and 2) compound the first mistake by not using a single comma.

Punctuation Police

Many years ago, in a recession far far away (ok, the early 90's), my law school had some mess up where we couldn't start 1L summer work until July. These programs are (were?) funding by municipalities and/or the federal gov't, so they had to wait for the funds. So I had June off and spent July and some of August in an outplacement at a city agency.

You're making this sound like the seventh sign of the apocalypse. This isn't that big of a deal - many schools don't have funds to pay 1Ls during their summers. They work for free at non-profits or for the government and they find a way to make their 1L loans stretch. It isn't rocket science.

since when was Villanova a tier 1 law school?

Many years ago, in a recession far far away (ok, the early 90's), my law school had some mess up where we couldn't start 1L summer work until July. These programs are (were?) funding by municipalities and/or the federal gov't, so they had to wait for the funds. So I had June off and spent July and some of August in an outplacement at a city agency.

I'm pretty sure that since Tier 3 starts at 101, law schools ranked from 51 - 100 are Tier 2, not Tier 1. Villanova is actually 2nd Tier (68th).

Nope, everything went well here at Michigan with summer funding...

20, 22: But Villanova is still ranked highest in Philly, above Temple and Penn State.

This would never have happened if the Peanut Girl was still around!

Ranked 68 = tier 2. 1-50 = tier 1. 51-100 = tier 2. The U.S. News bowed to pressure years ago and don't explicitly call them tier 1 and tier 2 (hence, just top 100, then tier 3, and tier 4), but that's the break down. Villanova isn't and never will be a tier 1 school.

Jesus Christ, this is not what "beg the question" means. It does not mean "prompt a question," "raise a question," etc.

Language is our tool indeed.

24, if you're trying to play on the whole PSU/U of P spiel, it's not very funny the way you did it. If not, you clearly forgot about Penn Law School. And Penn State is not in Phila.

Um 24, I think that UPenn is ranked a bit higher and is the number one in Philly but whatever.

27, Chill out, dude. Stop being a d-bag.

28/29:

Please don't feed the trolls. They love peanuts. (Not sure about cheese.)

6 - Let's ask the Penn basketball players whether they would rather lose in the Final Four or win the NIT.

Regards,

A guy for follows college ball and had no idea Penn won the NIT

27, one of my pet peeves as well. Note to everyone: to "beg the question" is a term used to describe the logical fallacy of supporting a conclusion with an argument that necessarily assumes the truth of the very conclusion under consideration. As 27 said, it does not mean to "raise" or "prompt" a question.

Maybe those 1Ls could put that Section 90 outline to use....

Maybe not the funniest way of doing it, 28, but it got you. Congratulations.

Got me what, 35? To comment on how retarded you are. You're welcome. Glad that brings you some measure of satisfaction in your sad little life.

Only an Arabian horse trainer can save us now.

They need to start closing law schools. Bloated system only thrives on educating more lawyers. Pile on the debt!!

Maybe the $300k profs who voted for Obama can redistribute some of their wealth to these broke-ass 1Ls. Not holding my breath.

36, begs the question of the identity of 35. Congrats again, this time on your reasoning ability.
--35, not 24

36, begs the question of 35's identity. Congratulations again, this time on your reasoning ability.
--35, not 24

PROMassORY
ESTOPPELobster

@41 begs the questions as to you whether you are a top or bottom.

Ole' Gus

37- A trainer of Arabian horses, or an Arab that trains any breed of horse? Please advise!!

how has this upenn/penn state joke been going on for so long and yet there is still always a d-bag who takes the bait and corrects people

43, both; that's why I posted twice.

That Morgan Lewis guy is a douche.

8 - The economy created a large pool of 2Ls who did not have summer jobs at law firms. So these same 2Ls flooded the government/public interest groups with resumes when those jobs normally went to the 1Ls. That includes judicial internships.

So at least in NY (where I'm in school), the economy made it really tough for us 1Ls.

"Villanova is more well known for its basketball team than its law school. But Villanova has a law school, a tier 1 law school in fact. "

And with that sentence the concept of law school 'tiers' has been completed discredited.

Raise your hand if you knew this joke law school existed.

Right, nobody.

ELIE:
Read the posts by 22 and 26 and UPDATE this article, because you look like an idiot!

U.S. News only quit reporting the schools ranked from 51-100 as second tier a couple of years ago, but they are still historically second tier.

I am truly convinced that your credentials are fraudulent. I'm not even joking.

50, are you saying a school lowering its admissions standards for people with a certain skin color leads to fraudulent credentials?

You are a racist.

Let's see PA - blue state....out of money...hmmm wasn't that supposed to have CHANGED on January 20th?

52 -

Malaise you can believe in, baby!

Anyone who uses the word racist is a racist, which is why I am a racist.

JV Racist team

Grade inflation with respect to law schools has gotten out of hand. Tier 1 should be the top 25 at most, possibly just T14. Tier 2 is 25 to 50. Anything worse than 50 is TTT.

Joke of a law school? We've been around for over 50 years, have a Joint JD/MBA Program, Joint JD/PhD Program in Law and Psychology, and an LLM in Taxation. We are considered top 10 in legal writing, top 20 in tax.

I know, I know.. don't feed the trolls.

Joke of a law school? We've been around for over 50 years, have a Joint JD/MBA Program, Joint JD/PhD Program in Law and Psychology, and an LLM in Taxation. We are considered top 10 in legal writing, top 20 in tax. Maybe you need to get out more.

I know, I know.. don't feed the trolls.

51-100 = Tier 2 = NIT of law schools.

As a graduating 3L at 'Nova, I can tell you that this whole thing is almost certainly because Career Services here is TERRIBLE and have done just about nothing to help 1Ls and 2Ls find jobs.

Basically, here at Villanova, Career Services helps law review kids get jobs and, once that's done, just washes their hands of everyone else.

As a graduating 3L at 'Nova, I can tell you that this whole thing is almost certainly because Career Services here is TERRIBLE and have done just about nothing to help 1Ls and 2Ls find jobs.

Basically, here at Villanova, Career Services helps law review kids get jobs and, once that's done, just washes their hands of everyone else.

59/60 is correct. i thankfully transferred after my first year to upennstate. the career services and deans were completely worthless. basically, the whole "on campus" recruiting thing is a joke. they know that big law firms are really only looking for the top of the top of the class but they force the firms to interview at least 10 students just to get access to the ones they really only care about, which is a complete waste of time for the other nine and inflates their numbers for recruiting purposes. plus, if you indicate that you are going to transfer, they treat you like shit. the only thing that I am glad for is that villanova is cheaper than upennstate, so i saved about 20k in student loans...and thats about it.

61- you are full of shit. The mission of the Office of Career Strategy & Advancement is to provide core career planning education, recruitment programs, and individual counseling that serve as the foundation for our students' future professional development and satisfaction. The Career Strategy team, which includes 3 experienced attorney-advisors and a career strategy specialist, works together to partner with students in identifying and achieving their career goals. In addition, the Career Strategy Office works with employers from diverse practice sectors and locations to recruit Villanova's talented students and alumni.

see, the career services office of villanova rocks ass and you suck ass.

you know, you could essentially do away with the career services department if law students would get the balls to put together a website showing each students achievments (including GPA, resume, background, special skills, etc). law firms could cherry pick the students they want to talk to and go around the worthless career services section. what about the students that dont get picked? even if you interviewed, you still wouldnt get picked, so dont waste your time paying for the bloated salaries of your career services department.

you know, you could essentially do away with the career services department if law students would get the balls to put together a website showing each students achievments (including GPA, resume, background, special skills, etc). law firms could cherry pick the students they want to talk to and go around the worthless career services section. what about the students that dont get picked? even if you interviewed, you still wouldnt get picked, so dont waste your time paying for the bloated salaries of your career services department.

61 +62

RAWR!

catfight!

you could even do it so the web site is restricted and only the recruiting coordinators at the law firms can get access (to keep things confidential). it can be run by the students for the students.

62- nice cut and paste job from the website. using villanova's own puffery as the basis for your argument is stupid...or, looking at it, you meant it as a joke. either way, good one.

62 clearly works for Villanova Law School Career Services.

I work for Villanova Law School Career Services and I have a job.

Screw you other losers.

"We are considered top 10 in legal writing, top 20 in tax. Maybe you need to get out more."

Top 10 in LEGAL WRITING? There's a ranking for this? I remember legal writing - taught by a robot who could never teach a substantive law class and who couldn't hack it even at a gov't job. The whole class was a lot like the activities of Saturday detention on The Breakfast Club.

Career Services at Nova is particularly bad. That said, whoever said this - "Basically, here at Villanova, Career Services helps law review kids get jobs and, once that's done, just washes their hands of everyone else" -- is kidding themselves. First off the law review kids get jobs because they are qualified. But in this terrible economy, how are middle of the pack students at a middle of the pack school going to find work? You can't blame the Career Services office for that.

Michigan does not guarantee summer funding. Almost half the 1L class had accepted unpaid public service work and are now completely stranded without funding for the summer.

St. John's U. Law School does not award work study money at all. The university keeps it all to itself. One of the many reasons St. John's is the #1 law school in Jamaica, NY.

@ 6- penn state won the NIT, Villanova was in the NCAA tournament. Thats like winning the NBDL league championship compared to the NBA title. but good one. and further, its not only 1L's that are struggling to find internships, 2L's are as well, more and more schools that typically have students summer with biglaw firms are encroaching on the internships usually being filled by schools of lower stature.

GULC guarantees over 3k for every 1L not getting paid this summer. It's not a fortune but it helps

to my knowledge, WUSTL guarantees a summer stipend to 1Ls and 2Ls who take public service jobs over the summer. the stipend is supposed to be automatic as long as you qualify (submit your form by the right date, take a qualifying unpaid job, etc). You dont get the stipend if you just take the summer off...

I'd be curious if WUSTL ran out too...

Are these other schools' stipends contingent on finding a particular unpaid public service job?

looks like we have a bunch of hardcore lawyers in training hitting the boards today. hope you guys got alot of love on national be kind to lawyers day, because every other day of the year, you are the reason people equate lawyers with egotistical douchebaggery. but keep up the good work, i sure you have a bunch of real friends who don't find you to be condescending assholes once you step out of the room.

74, no that's like winning the NBDL league championship compared to losing in the NBA conference semi-finals. Winners are winners and losers are losers. Ergo, NIT champion Penn > Villanova. And that's not even throwing Joe Paterno and Penn football into the mix.

78 - You are a retard. They still talk about 1979 at Penn. The only people who will ever talk about Penn's NIT title are maybe four people, and they're all commenting here. Reaching the Final Four is in no way similar to losing in the conference semis (other than the obvious way in that only four teams are left). Reaching a Final Four is a huge achievement, particularly for a school like Penn.

Ranked 68 is hardly Tier 1

Ranked 68 is hardly Tier 1

I've never seen so many people confuse University of Pennsylvania with Penn State while ripping on someone's education..

82 - Confusing Penn with Penn State would be like confusing Holland with the Netherlands.

@ 13: can you elaborate? If not, I call flame. V10s DO NOT hire immediate family members of partners (unless you are referring to some other type of nepotism?)

The Villanova Career Services Office has been chasing its tail to bring in "career panels" for the last several months, but has been shockingly unsuccessful at bringing employers to campus. But what do you expect in this market?

What's much worse is that Villanova had THE SAME PROBLEM LAST YEAR, and apparently was unable to do anything about it.

I was at the Nova Admitted Students Day a few weeks ago. The rep from career services didn't even show up. She had this horrible video where she didn't even interested. It was by far the worst pitch for a school I've heard.

Yea, how dare the VLS career services rep not show up to admitted students, day, I mean she was only at the NALP conference, no big deal or anything, not like ATL went to that stupid conference right...

Take some money away from the grossly overpaid administrators and professors. That should subsidize a few students.

VLS not getting firms to come to campus?? Career services gets ALL the big Philly firms to interview and give out jobs.

GO WILDCATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Elie can be excused for calling Villanova a Tier 1, since that's exactly what the USnews rankings call it (even though they mysteriously skip a tier 2 and jump to a tier 3)

Maybe Villanova would have more money if they hadn't built a brand spankin' new law school. Though, the old law school probably needed replacing.

Go Wildcats!! Final Four in NCAA tourney is definitely more impressive than NIT. Even Sweet Sixteen would be. Quite possibly even getting booted out in the first round is more prestigious than winning the NIT. (though, I guess I'd prefer the NIT, but still, ever hear of a 16 or 15 seed being like "no thanks, i'd rather be in the NIT)

Hi folks. I'm a lawyer & have a kid at Villanova Law & was advised about this running commentary, so I checked it out. All I can say is "wow." While I think Above the Law provides a good service by getting stuff of interest (and sometimes not so much interest) out there for information, this back-and-forth commenting can really be an enormous waste of time. Law school students should be aware that nothing is guaranteed to them just because they were fortunate enough to attend law school. In the end, getting a job, even in this unfortunate market, is up to you -- not your mom or dad or rich uncle or the career placement office. Consider how you spend your time.

No 49 and others. For those of you who think this is a "joke" law school, I graduated from there, worked at top (yes top - #6 to be exact) law firm in New York City and London. I then clerked for a Circuit Court judge in the Third Circuit, as did a number of my class mates. Doesn't sound like someone who went to a "joke" law school right? When you get into the working world, people don't care about your law school. I can guarantee that partners at my firm thought I was a better associate than some who came from Harvard. So, watch what you say without actually knowing anything about it.

92+93 just destroyed everyone on this thread.

New Rankings Leaked:
1. Wherever I go, bitch.
2. Everywhere else.

- 1L VLS sa