Boston College, Loyola - Chicago: Try to Soften the Deferral Blow
More schools are jumping in to try to help their own deferred graduates. Boston College Law School has come up with a “hodgepodge” of initiatives, according to EagleOnline:
* Law School Fellows Program: “as many as twelve positions” will be available, paid at “a modest hourly rate” in places like the Legal Assistance Bureau and the Law Library.* Career Services Partnership Program: working with some firms and companies, the Law School will coordinate jobs for graduates from September 1 of this year to March 1 of the next, to help out those who are waiting out deferrals or bar exam results. While stipends vary, past participants have “averaged $800 to $1000 per week.”
* Audit Courses: Class of 2009 graduates will be able to enroll in “a number of courses” in the fall semester, without tuition but without the opportunity to receive a grade, with the “understanding” that “graduates will participate in the class as observers.”
* Eagle Scholars Program: while auditing courses, graduates can participate in a weekly seminar intended to help students produce “a law review article of publishable quality.”
* Research Assistantships: in a measure bound to raise the ire of some continuing students, graduates are being welcomed to apply for assistantships with professors. Some faculty members have been given the green light to hire an extra assistant for the summer and fall.
* Public Service Jobs: for graduates waiting out deferrals, the Law School is extending access to PS Lawnet in an effort to connect graduates with public service opportunities.
Unlike some schools, BC Law doesn’t appear to be offering an extension in health care benefits. But at least the school isn’t asking students to go deeper into debt. As long as graduates stay away from the local pig farm, they should be okay. At least the ones who have only been deferred until March 2010 or earlier.
The article also has an interesting quote from a BC Law spokesperson:
“[w]e’re all very concerned about our graduates and the economic situation,” but stressed that while “we all want to help…unless students come to us we won’t know how to help them.”
BC students might want to bring up “loan forbearance” just in case the administration is really unaware of how that might help out deferred or unemployed recent graduates.
After the jump, let’s look at what is going on at Loyola - Chicago.
The new plan for Loyola - Chicago is a more like UCLA’s plan, and less like the initiatives from Northwestern. Here is the school wide email from Loyola Law Dean David Yellen:
Dear Graduating Students:The School of Law congratulates you as you near the successful completion of your law school studies. We take great pride in your accomplishments and look forward to celebrating with you at graduation.
We also realize that you are entering your professional life at a time of extraordinary economic challenge. We would like to help you to navigate the transition from law school to your career as much as possible. Of course, all of the School of Law services, including our Career Services office, will be available to you for counseling and support after your graduation. In addition, in an effort to try to provide additional assistance to you in your professional development, the School of Law is offering the following post-graduate programs:
First, the School of Law will offer its 2009 graduates a deeply discounted tuition of $9,500.00 for its traditional LL.M. degrees in Child and Family Law, Health Law, Business and Corporate Governance Law and Tax Law. If you are interested in pursuing this opportunity, please complete the usual LL.M. application, which is available on our website. We have extended the application deadline to August 1, 2009.
Second, the School of Law also is planning to establish a new Graduate Fellowship for 2009 graduates. Graduate Fellows would be entitled to enroll in law school classes particularly suited to their professional objectives at a significantly reduced flat tuition rate of $4,000 per semester. A Graduate Fellow may enroll in law school classes during the fall semester of 2009, the spring semester of 2010, or both. Although a Graduate Fellow may enroll in any open and available law school class, the School of Law believes that the following courses will be particularly beneficial: (1) externships geared toward graduates; (2) directed research projects under the supervision of law faculty with a view toward publication; (3) independent study with a member of the law faculty toward the development of new teaching methods, particularly those that utilize technology as part of instructional practices; (4) professional skills classes, including those that enable graduates to meet their Mandatory Continuing Legal Education requirement of basic skills training; and (5) experiential learning opportunities, including available live-client clinics and practicums. If you would like to pursue this opportunity, please contact [Redacted], who will assist you with the enrollment process.
We hope that you will find one of these special “bridge” programs helpful. We also would greatly appreciate your suggestions for any improvements to these programs, and would welcome your ideas about any additional initiatives that we might offer.
Thank you very much.
Sincerely,
David N. Yellen
When we posted about UCLA’s similar program, critical readers split into three camps: A) this is nothing more than a money grab, B) shouldn’t law schools be teaching these skills in the first THREE YEARS of the educational experience, C) the school is just trying to massage it’s “employed upon graduation numbers” for U.S. News.
For point C, this is something that the U.S. News people will have to seriously look at next year.
On point B, there are a lot of people that want to change the nature of legal education. I’d be happy march (who am I kidding? Segway) on Washington with them. But changing the structure of legal education isn’t going to really help the class of 2009. An opportunity to get skills that firms aren’t really willing to pay them to learn right now seems like a fair option.
In terms of the tuition grab aspect, well what do you expect? Apparently, people didn’t know that law firms were a business until September 15th, why would you think law schools would be any different? Besides, the majority of law school resources need to be spent on current students. Just wait until the classes of 2010 and 2011 start feeling like alumni are taking up resources and opportunities that they need should the economy continue to flatline.
The major steps that law schools need to take are loan forbearance and low income debt forgiveness programs for graduates who find themselves structurally unemployable at a salary level that can even hope to carry the debt load. But that is not going to even come close to happening until schools realize that students can’t pay their loans and go into default. We are still months of economic hell from that happening.
So, in the meantime, these programs would seem to give recent graduates a few more options than they had a month ago. I’m not sure that there is anything wrong with that.
BCLS Rolls Out Plans to Help Graduating Students; Loan Repayment Unaddressed [EagleOnline]
Earlier: UCLA: The Latest Law School To Help Deferred Students
Northwestern Law Gets ‘Proactive’




Comments
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FIRST EVER!!!
YES!!! After 756785 days .... I'm finally FIRST!
- 1
"YES!!! After 756785 days .... I'm finally FIRST!"
Now you can die happy?
Also, bummer about our graduating class getting screwed. I'd like the economy to turn around now, thanks.
-3L
If a female associate gets the swine flu, do you just call it the flu?
Ooooooh!
I new this fat chick that went to BC law. Nice tits but huge belly. I think she works in NYC now.
I am absolutely appalled at these "academic" institutions and their attempts to hide employable graduates. In this economy, not everyone will make the cut. If you can't produce attorney's capable of producing quality work, then your institution should suffer the reputational damage. 3Ls who have been deferred obviously either weren't intelligent to make an informed decision about which firm to join, or did not have the credentials to join a firm not in dire straits. Law schools are not your mommy or your daddy and shouldn't be holding your hands.
On a unrelated note, Boston College has been TTT ever since it left the Big East.
Houston is a cesspool of rotting garbage and the refuse of 3500 sq ft wives and their cowboy husbands constantly feasting on bbq and moonpies.
5, are you speaking about Elie? I have never believed his claims of Harvard.
Loyola should be ashame of itself. Students can't afford to go into more debt. Pay them back as salary for doing some BS job some of the tuition they already paid. Law school is a rip off anyway. Compare the resources used to teach law to that used to teach medicine....and tuition is similar!?!?!?! Give me a break. And, 3rd year of law school is pointless. Law school is all about making money.
Loyola should be ashame of itself. Students can't afford to go into more debt. Pay them back as salary for doing some BS job some of the tuition they already paid. Law school is a rip off anyway. Compare the resources used to teach law to that used to teach medicine....and tuition is similar!?!?!?! Give me a break. And, 3rd year of law school is pointless. Law school is all about making money.
revised WALL OF SHAME
(Firms that are both V100 and AmLaw 100, but have yet to announce)
------------------------
Arnold & Porter LLP
Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP
Covington & Burling LLP
Dickstein Shapiro LLP
Fish & Richardson P.C.
Howrey LLP
Kirkland & Ellis LLP
Reed Smith LLP
Stroock & Stroock & Lavan LLP
Williams & Connolly LLP
I think an induced coma program is the way to go, and there is no need to limit it to law school grads. Then again, maybe our former economy (which was built on debt, universal home ownership and virus- like consumption) was all a coma induced dream.
These bridge programs are obsolete just like most of law school courses. Why don't they offer a discount on a program that will be vital to the future lawyer... an MBA!
These programs are rediculous. The new grads need to get their fat or skinny asses out in the real world and get a real job. There's no chance that any real law firm will consider these fluff positions to be worthwhile. In fact, they likely will hold it against the grads, thus making it harder for them to find jobs down the road.
All this Biglaw sh*t about public interest work is just to get you ready to accept low pay lawyering.
MBA---good idea.
BC and Loyola send graduates to BigLaw? News to me.
-Top10 2L
$9K and $4K is still $9K and $4K too much for a Loyola education (any of the Loyolas, really).
Good luck with your Loyola JD, Loyola LLM resumes, janitors!
None of this will solve the real problem: they were charged 150k for a degree now worth very little.
You people need to go to a speeling class.
Fugitive = Partner E
White Castle References.
LEVEL 5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
19, delete the word "now" from your sentence and I agree.
That thing you thought the colon was doing in the title of this post? It doesn't do that.
Good call 21
perhaps refunding/forgiving at least 33% of a students 3L loans burden would help out more in the long run...
BC might very well be required to offer the folks that they're hiring as assistants health insurance, since MA law requires health insurance. You should probably know that as an ex-resident of Massachusetts, Elie, unless you graduated before the mandatory insurance law was passed. Why didn't you do more research into the health care coverage offered by the temp positions at BC before making a stupid joke about swine flu?
when will NYU do something??!!
perhaps refunding/forgiving at least half of the loans these poor students took out during their 3L year would help out more in the long run... I would expect nothing less from these "Jesuit Institutions"
Loan forgiveness just promotes continuing bad financial decisions.
Perhaps some sort of promissory estoppel argument? I'm just spit-balling.
Dude NYU is such a toilet, don't expect anything from them anytime soon.
This seems like a smart move by schools, and they are probably doing it on the advice of their legal departments in order to avoid the inevitable lawsuits that their current students will file.
What I mean is, law schools made certain representations in recruiting materials concerning job placement rates, average salaries, etc. Potential law students reasonably relied upon those representations, but now find themselves without a job. Moreover, these law schools knew that students would rely upon those promises. Ergo, the law students likely have sold reliance/Section 90 claims - at least enough to get past a motion to dismiss.
It will be interesting to see how these inevitable claims develop. Throwing a bone to some students might lessen the pool of potential claimants, but it will not eliminate it. I wonder if we will see class actions along these lines being filed in the near future.
31, 33 here. Looks like we are on the same page. I think the real issue is whether a plaintiff could get a class of students certified.
90 sure was a hot legal field when all those computer majors came out in the dot.com bust.
33,
You really fleshed out the argument and presented any half-way decent plaintiff's lawyer with a solid outline on how to recover on these students' behalf. I really wish I was such a plaintiff's attorney up in Boston or Chicago. With such a textbook case of promissory estoppel, it's like shooting fish in a barrel.
-31
This blog should be called Above The Law School - tired of the student-only focus. Lat used to have the inside scoop on the profession; Mystal seems to only be able to crack the law library gossip and listservs.
"What a puny plan."
-Lord Humungous
To be safe, would it be prudent to plead quantum meruit in the alternative?
I suppose I should know the answer to this question, but are either of these schools accredited by the American Bar Association?
Would Chicago-kenttt do this? they tanked to 77 in the us news rankings.
39, you can also claim antitrust violations due to the schools/firms all copying each other. It's the Sherman Antitrust Act of '90.
What sorts of applications does the RICO statute have to this situation (and the many situations like this)?
33 here.
43: Great idea adding a RICO count. The great thing about that it we could pierce the law school's veil and argue that the dean and career services people were part of a criminal conspiracy, and therefore personally liable.
39/42: Both great ideas. Good plaintiffs' lawyers will come up with all sorts of claims, and I think there are obvious antitrust violations here.
I don't think I'll take Loyola up on its offer to spend yet more $$.
I'll take my chances & work a Trader Joe's for the health benefits while I look for a job...who knows, maybe I'll get promoted to manager at TJ's and make more $$ than most of the small firm/gov't jobs I've seen posted!
Let's put these diploma mills out of business
tuition is going to be the next bubble to pop, but the only ones feeling the effect will be the overpaid deans and overpaid "star" prof's.
Any time there is unregulated government funding (home mort, bank bailout, student loans, military spending) there is runaway inflation.
The idea is hilarious. We know that you are hurting because you can't find a job, or were deferred, so come and give us more money for another year.
What are the schools offering that a graduate could not do by themselves and not pay the school any money?
Hmmm...so I can PAY Loyola for performing a professor's research?
As a 1L, professors paid me to do their research. As a grad, I pay them?
NYU has done tons. They've held meetings with each group of deferred students, held a deferred student career fair just last week, and are pulling out all the stops to get students into real jobs. They built an entirely new section into the career services site listing deferral jobs, and they're hitting the pavement to work connections so NYU are the ones that get them. You don't need a come-back-to-school program when you're getting your students jobs, clerkships, and legit. internships with their deferral dollars.
33 is an idoit.
33 is spot on.
Hate to break it to everyone, but my Jesuit education WILL net me a high-paying job.
I've got JESUS on my side!
Hate to break it to everyone, but my Jesuit education WILL net me a high-paying job.
I've got JESUS on my side!