Dreams of Biglaw Deferred
(Or, The Scene at New Jersey’s First Deferred Associates Public Interest Job Fair)
Your correspondent trekked out to Newark, N.J., to bring you news from the first-of-its-kind (that we know of) job fair for deferred associates. With firms pushing back start dates at a continually increasing rate, this fair may be the first but will certainly not be the last.
The fair was organized in short time by the Newark-based Volunteer Lawyers for Justice. Executive director Karen Sachs, a graduate of NYU Law, saw the magic that could happen by bringing together underfunded and overburdened non-profits with shiny new Biglaw-bound law grads (with deferral stipends attached). Ka-ching for the non-profits; Hallelujah for law grads in need of non-profit jobs to fill their deferred months.
This particular fair was locally focused, with 26 New Jersey organizations in attendance and over 100 attendees, mainly from New Jersey and New York law schools and firms. But Sachs said nonprofits from DC, NYC, and even Tennessee had called her hoping to take part in the economic-crisis-with-a-silver-lining event. Another fair in May that includes out-of-state organizations is a definite possibility, Sachs said.
Non-profit reps from Legal Services orgs, Catholic Charities, Seton Hall Law School Center for Justice and others sat at tables speed-dating style, while deferred 3Ls, jobless law grads, and sabbatical-seeking associates made the rounds. Mayor Cory Booker (YLS ‘97) and White & Case partner Jack E. Pace III dropped in to make speeches, emphasizing the silver lining to this. To summarize: Boo for economy; yay young lawyers getting pro bono opportunities, and pro bono orgs getting young lawyers!
Booker, whose career was launched (and law school debt paid) by a Skadden fellowship, said the Biglaw deferrals with stipends attached was “like the Skadden program 20 fold, 50 fold even.”
We liked Booker’s enthusiasm, Pace’s Brooklyn hipster glasses, and the chicken wraps provided, but not everyone was full of good cheer. Incoming associates aren’t completely drunk on the silver-lining kool-aid. More after the jump.
When talking to fair attendees, we asked what they thought about the silver lining sentiments expressed by Mayor Booker and Partner Pace. Most of the attendees were less enthusiastic than those two. “It sucks,” said one 3L from a New York law school contemplating deferral at a V20 firm (shockingly, none of the students or lawyers with whom we spoke wanted to be outed on ATL). “I’m pretty comfortable that I’ll have a job in 2011, but I’m not sure.”
Said another 3L from a New Jersey law school: “It sucks. I found out about the deferral on ATL the day before hearing from my firm. Class work has fallen to the wayside as I scramble to apply to jobs… I didn’t go to law school and incur $100k worth of debt because I wanted to take time off and write a novel.”
Most of the non-profits understandably prefer the Biglaw deferrees who come with a stipend attached. “We haven’t made decisions yet about how many we’ll bring in. It depends on how much the firms are going to cover. If law firms require nonprofits to spend on health insurance, that might be an issue for us,” said Rex Chen, of the Catholic Charities of Newark.
We expressed concern about Biglaw deferrees with funding attached displacing staff members that non-profits already have or would hire. But the non-profits pooh-poohed that suggestion. Said organizer Sachs: “There’s no displacement because there’s no funding to hire students anyway.”
“I don’t have funding, but that doesn’t decrease my enthusiasm,” said Stephanie D., currently clerking in New Jersey and looking for a full-time public interest job next. “I don’t feel like I am at a disadvantage, because I’ve already passed the bar and have a year of experience.”
Both Booker and Pace emphasized the skills, training, and rewarding experiences to be had doing public interest work. “Even in a down economy, we have a powerful purpose. There is good coming out of these challenging times,” said Booker.
Good luck to the deferred. We hope to see more of these fairs take place.
New Jersey Deferred Associates Fair [Volunteer Lawyers for Justice]
A unique legal job fair: job seekers don’t expect pay, recruiters don’t expect seekers to stick around [National Law Journal]




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first is the worst!
It isn't Newark, but I just found out I'm being sent to Hoboken, NJ to interview some people. Should I just go into the city for dinner, or can someone recommend a restaurant in Hoboken? Thanks in advance!
--Hungry for Hoboken
100k in debt?!? Fuck off Jersey, I've got almost 200k
FIRST to say "shit"
Also I kind of enjoy #2's schtick. It's better than the "ship be sinking" guy or that partner emeritus asshole
my ass lobster is eating my cock cake as i read this
Nice 2. What's the next one going to be - Insatiable in Indianapolis?
As one of the people looking to hire these deferred associates I'll second that it's not displacing any hiring of public interest org staff here or anywhere I know of. Most PI orgs (except in the foreclosure prevention area) are on hiring freezes anyway. For us, it's a way to finish up or get going on some long-deferred projects that wouldn't get done otherwise, or to free up very experienced attorneys from simple motion writing, etc. Given the funding capacity, we'd rather be hiring full time permanent folks, sure, but that's a pipe dream.
As one of the people looking to hire these deferred associates I'll second that it's not displacing any hiring of public interest org staff here or anywhere I know of. Most PI orgs (except in the foreclosure prevention area) are on hiring freezes anyway. For us, it's a way to finish up or get going on some long-deferred projects that wouldn't get done otherwise, or to free up very experienced attorneys from simple motion writing, etc. Given the funding capacity, we'd rather be hiring full time permanent folks, sure, but that's a pipe dream.
Can we get an open thread on the pros and cons of accepting a voluntary deferral offer?
there are about 300 restaurants in hoboken, most of the mediocre bars that happen to serve food - it depends what you are looking for. if you want something amazing, go to the city - if you want something quite good, but that "food snobs" might dislike go to 340 grill, anthony david's or amanda's...if you want bar food, hoboken is literally bar food heaven - go anywhere.
Seton Hall Represent
I will sum it up 9... take deferral and cash - pray you don't get fired shortly thereafter. Do not take deferral - watch yourself get fired sooner.
must be one of the most depressing job fairs.
partner emeritus is funny.
16 is a douche
2 - have you nothing better to do? And don't come back with your lame "Why the hostility, I'm just looking for somewhere to eat" crap. At least get yourself an avatar so we all know to ignore you.
All public interest lawyers.
It appears some of you believe that I am here to amuse you. Let me assure you that I am here to inculcate common sense to those that have erred in their ways by gambling their futures on the legal profession. I share Mayor Booker's enthusiasm for public interest. This would be a good time for folks to develop their legal skills (notice I said develop as opposed to sharpen since law school does not teach you how to be a lawyer) and pay down their enormous non-dischargeable student loans by enrolling in a public interest debt forgiveness program. That is a silver linning of sorts. Anyone in law school right now has lost. If you are a 3L, get your degree, take the bar and go into public interest. Payoff your debt and then try your hand at something more enterprising than law since your dreams of an undeserved payday have been dashed. If you are a first, second year or plebe about to enroll in law school in September, drop what you are doing and cut your losses. You can loathe me for who I am and what I represent. Nevertheless, know that I am an elder who believes in dispensing tough love. Embrace it and you will be a better person for it.
elie, you should post under this Kashmir Hill moniker more often - your writing style is way better, you don't make typos, and you do substantive reporting. it's almost as if this "kashmir hill" is someone else.
I once deferred from eating a thick, juicy steak.
partner emeritus, don't you have a federalist society meeting or phi alpha kappa meeting to go? quick, run, free pizza.
ATL - how about a piece on the day of the week for layoffs? Just based on memory, it seems that thursdays are the runaway favorites... *shudders*
The Management Committee enjoys embracing tough love.
i attended.
the stench of desperation was heavy in the air.
the place was made of up 90% 3Ls from TTTs who dont have jobs, along with 2008 grads from TTTs who still don't have jobs. There was a small smattering of realy live deferred 3Ls. i'm not sure which would be worse for a non-profit - some gunner loser who wantted biglaw and won't take the fellowship seriously, or some moron who can't do any better but will work his tail off for experience. lose/lose?
Partner Emeritus is a scumbag, I wish he would get lost
I think this sort of PI fair for deferred associates is an excellent idea. Nice job to whoever thought of it.
16, speaking of having nothing better to do. . . .
Thanks, 10! That's really helpful. Anywhere in particular to get a good steak? As for the others, not sure why my question amused/annoyed you, because I really am just
--Hungry for Hoboken :-)
So 24, if everyone there was either a "gunner-loser" or a "TTT moron" what would that make you?
Correction: an NYU Law grad.
Say it out loud.
Correction: an NYU Law grad.
Say it out loud.
Correction: an NYU Law grad.
Say it out loud.
Correction: an NYU Law grad.
Say it out loud.
Correction: an NYU Law grad.
Say it out loud.
*crowds into job fair...surely there must be a room for a nervous T-10 1L!*
-nervous T-10 1L
soon to be nervous 1L sa
Sullivan & Cromwell pushed back 3L start dates yesterday. Why has this not been reported? Elie Mystal and ATL licks ballsacks. Go Heels, bitch.
Sachs, meet Stephanie D.... Stephanie D., meet reality...
this double title was completely unnecessary. the parenthetical title would have been a sufficient single title. but no, you had to be cute and eff it up with a garbage main title. Plus, this parenthetical title set off with a comma, rather than a colon like every other time. wtf?
How is it a Job Fair if none of the positions pay?
10 here (cant quite tell if you are serious 2, but here goes):
cheaper, low key steakhouse (e.g. red and white checked tablecloths) = Arthurs
old school steakhouse = Dino & Harrys (used to be frankie & johnies - same as the one in nyc, but there was a falling out or something)
seemingly "trendy" and inside the new W hotel (not even sure if its open yet) = Zylo
Having the fair was a great idea but people were in different positions. Some people were there looking for a job for the year off while others were there just checking out places in case something bad happens. None of the orgs seemed to be paying which is really tough; not all deferral options are the same and some people may not be able to get by on what they were given.....I'm glad I have a small firm lined up.
25 is right. Partner Emeritus: I bet you're one of the kids that has always been socially ostracized by people who aren't douches. Just know that even on the internet everyone thinks you're a tool.
Partner Emeritus is one of the few voices of reason on this board. Remember 3Ls - pro bono work is not an excuse to be LAZY.
Emeritus is just an idiot that's trying to sound like he knows what he's talking. When I corrected him on not even knowing the difference between a solicitor and a barrister, he quit using the terms interchangeably and changed his schtick obsession with indian lawyers. Others have corrected his complete lack of understanding of LLM degrees or how the H1-B visa system works.
He'd be more entertaining if he wasn't a complete moron.
And on a separate note, express bus drivers in NY make 65k a year. Sure they don't have 150k+ in debt, but they got kids and a 1200 sq ft wife and a car in staten island or brooklyn. They live well. Of course, if you have 150k in loans and kids and a spouse that's not gainfully employed, well, I'm sorry.
Even in NY you can easily "survive" on 65k, even with 12k going to loans. Just learn that you can't go out to the city every night or really more than once a month. But Ramen is delicious if you cook it right and bringing your lunch to work is both healthy and cheap. And after doing pro-bono for a year, you'll still have a soul. And maybe a job waiting for you.
Good luck to all. This economy sucks...
Kashmir is a class act. No sarcasm.
Kashmir is a class act. No sarcasm.
"Job fair"? More like "Indentured Servant Fair" or "Slave Labor Fair" or "Forced Internship Fair."
By all means, get some law school loan forgiveness if you are forced to go this route. Sucks.
Wonder whether law schools & the legal system might start thinking this is a great idea and make everyone do a year of PI before joining the firm... kind of like how Israel gives everyone a stint in the military. Shudder.
Prof Em = maximus tool
Like someone mentioned, PE conveniently avoids responding to posts where he's been called out for being a moron on the subject matter he professes to speaks so wisely on.
Well... back on topic. It's a bad idea to take sabbatical or deferment. (1) Biglaw is timeline conscious, which means if you are not tracking on the partnership timeline, then there is something wrong with you. A class of 2005 lawyer would be competing with class of 2006 lawyers, which is not a good thing. Pedigree and appearance is everything in big law. (2) Public interest people that do pro bono full time will not appreciate a temporary interloper; they would rather have your money than you taking up a position that could be filled by someone with commitment to the cause. Public interest lawyers make less than a third of what big law lawyers make, but they choose their job out of a sense of purpose. To have someone that chased the money after law school come in to do "public interest" could be seen as less than disingenuous. They would rather have you send a check than pretend to care about the cause.
What about 3Ls whose deferral stipends are too small to work for free? What the fuck? Not everybody is getting 75K. I have to get by until March 2010 on 15K. Where's the job fair for me?
#50 quit whining. During law school, many people live on less than $15K every year. Suck it up and waitress I am so tired of people who at least have some money coming in crying about the amount. I graduate in a month and have no income after May. I would love $15,000. STFU.