The Perils of ‘Reply All’
Villanova Law Dean: ‘The internet really is a type of hell!’
Last week, we wrote about Villanova University School of Law running out of work-study funds. Over the weekend, we received several copies of an interesting follow-up email — one that went to every 1L and 2L at Villanova, as well as every dean.
Some background, from a tipster:
This email is sent as-is, with typos and random, misplaced sentence pieces intact (“ing we put on email …” ?). Dean Sargent gives ATL a shout-out and echoes Professor-Blogger Jim Maule’s excitement as well.
And the email:
From: Mark Sargent
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 3:01 PM
To: Wendy Barron; 2010dist; 2011dist
Cc: William James; Doris Brogan; Felicia Hamilton; Lori Bogish; Jennifer Nguyen; Christine Stango
Subject: RE: Work-Study funds for summer 2009Wendy, we need to be careful with this kind of mass communication, helpful as it is. As I am sure you saw, this ended up on Above the Law. I did not get nearly as excited about it as Maule, and I know other schools will have the same problem, but readers naturally (albeit idiotically) put a bas [sic] spin on it for us.
This is what we get for being transparent and helpful! The internet really is a type of hell!
________________________________
ing we put on email or elsewhere can go viral almost instantly.Mark A. Sargent
Dean and Professor of Law
Villanova University School of Law
From a second tipster:
I had to forward this. It is the email equivalent of the scene in Billy Madison where Chris Farley gets on the school bus and yells, “NO YELLING ON THE BUS!”
Our observations:
1. Thanks for the shout-out, Dean Sargent! We’re glad to have you as a reader.2. You’re right — other law schools are having the same problem. For example, there’s no more work-study money at Rutgers - Camden (email after the jump).
3. “[R]eaders naturally (albeit idiotically) put a bas [sic] spin on it for us.” Oh, Dean Sargent, don’t read the comments — they will only cause you grief. We’ve helpfully hidden them, so they don’t display by default; you have to affirmatively seek them out.
Finally, this is not the first time Dean Sargent has had problems with that pesky “reply all” button. Remember the saga of Peanut Girl? Back in the fall of 2007, Dean Sargent complained about having to deal with a student with a very severe peanut allergy — in an email he sent to the deans of all ABA-accredited law schools. In a subsequent apology to the listserv, he described his gaffe as “the oldest mistake in the history of email.”
We reached out to Dean Sargent for comment on his latest email error. Read more, after the jump.
We were hoping for an amusing, good-natured, self-deprecating message from the email-impaired dean. Instead, we got this:
This was ACCIDENTALLY sent to a wide list. It was supposed to go only to a group of administrators most concerned with the issue. I believe it is thoroughly inapporopriate [sic] for you to publish something that was not intended for a wide audience, and that will not contribute to any kind of helpful dialogue and only serve to embarrass us.
Well, Dean Sargent, it depends upon what the meaning of “helpful” is. The situation is slightly amusing — and in these depressing times, a little laughter can be “helpful.” Furthermore, it is “helpful” to remind our readers, many of whom are law students and young lawyers, about the importance of using “reply all” with care (as well as the importance of proofreading emails before sending).
While we have your attention, here’s a suggestion. Some distinguished members of the legal academy handle their own correspondence (like Judge Richard Posner, who responds to our emails in a matter of minutes). But many others — especially senior members, such as yourself — delegate the task to an assistant. In light of your recurring problems with the “reply all” feature, as well as your frequent typos, having your secretary handle your email traffic might be wise.
If you’re looking for a highly skilled typist whose prose is always error-free, we’re happy to offer you the services of our very own Elie Mystal. For his rates and availability, email us (subject line: “TTTyping Services by Elie”).
Earlier: A Disturbing Note from Villanova School of Law
Ding-Dong! The Peanut-Hating Witch Is Dead Visiting at Another Law School for a Year
RUTGERS SCHOOL OF LAW — CAMDEN — MEMORANDUM
date Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 3:16 PM
subject Work Study & Summer Funding
mailed-by clammail.rutgers.edu
Unfortunately, this summer there is no funding available for work study positions outside the law school. However, there will still be work study for on campus positions (research assistants, etc.)
For public interest summer funding resources, see the Career Planning website at https://camlaw.rutgers.edu/cms/i-students/summer-funding.
(152) Comments
Comments
Hasn't he ever read Section 90 of the Restatement?
"A promise which the promisor should reasonably expect to induce action or forbearance on the part of the promisee or a third person and which does induce such action or forbearance is binding if injustice can be avoided only by enforcement of the promise."
boob.
"Wendy, we need to be careful with this kind of mass communication, helpful as it is."
INCREDIBLE. lol.
Nice post, Lat!
Reminder, this is the only ranking that matters if you want BigLaw:
http://www.vault.com/lawschool/rankingtop25/
UVA is T5.
Peanut Girl was one of the best ATL stories of all time.....
This guy is the new Acela Bob.
Lat, you are a funny fellow. A++
learn how to use the email so your junk doesn't get posted all over the internets.
I thought the internet was just a bunch of tubes. Do these tubes lead all the way to hell?
Sarge is the man, typos and e-mailing aside
I want TTTyping TTTips from Elie!!!
Lat made a MysTTTal joke! Fantastic!
please come back Lat
Ah Lat always comes through. This is gold.
Not sure which is more apt, EPIC FAIL or PWND
That's a great quote: "The internet really is a type of hell!"
as a unfortunate grad of this law school, this dean never ceases to embarrass us. while our rankings and quality of professors are either stationary or decreasing, he decides that we need a new school. yeah, dont save money by fixing up the old perfectly good one. spend millions of dollars to get your feather in your cap, all at the expense of alumni and current student tuition dollars.
i will never give one cent to that school as long as sargent and brogan are at the helm. i had to forgo law review because i had to work to support my family and could not dedicate the time needed to be an editor. they treated me like i stabbed them in the back. it is amazing how family values are lost in that school despite the fact that it is a religious based school.
for all of those students considering villanova for law school, head this warning. if you are not one of the chosen few, you will be one of the forgotten many.
Wow Lat, you sure are a smug prick!
Didn't realize you had such a penchant for the schadenfreude
No chance #17 goes to villanova law. It's impossible to suggest that the old building could be "fixed up". At least we're beating Temple.
That was funny, Lat.
This dean seems very uncomfortable with the internet. I wouldn't trust him to be in charge of my legal education, considering that the internet plays such a big role in our country's intellectual life.
21 - Wut duz shootin Freud have ta do wit it?
The smugness is tempered by the last paragraph, where Lat acknowledges that ATTTL has serious typo problems of its own.
Lost amid the Villanova schadenfreude is the fact that despite(?) running out of public interest money, RU-Camden is now the highest ranked of the 3 NJ law schools, considering that it stayed static while both SHU and RU-Newark dropped 10 places...
18, Calling Lat a prick won't help you Dean Sargent.
22 - Fair point. And I was giving you [Lat] a complement, of sorts
18 (originally 21, what happened??)
First to notice that no one claimed first yet
Sounds like LAT is out-placing Elie. It'll be tough to find any takers.
Nothing like adding a little gas to the fire.
This Dean should be fired immediately. He is bringing further disgrace to this (already sad) school with every breath he draws.
26 - It was a contest to see what dipstick would notice.
Some of the "first" comments were removed (which threw off some of the comment numbering).
I'm at Villanova law and I love Dean Sargant - he's absolutely insane in some respects - as evidenced above - but he's a great lawyer, professor, and Dean. Go ahead and laugh at the situation above, because it is funny as hell and we're laughing too, but don't get the wrong idea, Dean Sargent's no idiot when it comes to what matters (legal education).
Just wanted to provide a voice of reason from someone who's actually met the guy, and goes to VLS.
Ok, now go back to your TTT jokes - I don't care because I have a v100 job this summer (which Dean Sargent helped arrange - through good communication and a good relationship with firm).
20- i think i know who you are and, as a member of the law review, i am sorry if you had that experience. frankly, i am amazed that sargent keeps his job. i would have to say that most of my fellow alums that I speak with on a regular basis have little to no respect for him as a dean in general and as a dean of a catholic institution. maybe this is the catalyst that gets him removed from his position, but unfortunately, professors and deans are harder to get rid of than herpes, and about as annoying.
to everyone that reads this letter and belittles Villanova, I would like to say that we are as disgusted and disappointed with this as you are. This is not professional behavior.
To Dean Sargent, you again have embarrassed the law school and the university. How many times does it take you to learn that you should think about what you are doing before you do it. The manner in which you conduct yourself is a reflection of the law school and of all of the alumni. This was reckless and irresponsible.
I'm at Villanova law and I love Dean Sargant - he's absolutely insane in some respects - as evidenced above - but he's a great lawyer, professor, and Dean. Go ahead and laugh at the situation above, because it is funny as hell and we're laughing too, but don't get the wrong idea, Dean Sargent's no idiot when it comes to what matters (legal education).
Just wanted to provide a voice of reason from someone who's actually met the guy, and goes to VLS.
Ok, now go back to your TTT jokes - I don't care because I have a v100 job this summer (which Dean Sargent helped arrange - through good communication and a good relationship with the firm).
Dean Sargent, formerly of Bewitched fame (along with Dean York), has hit the ground running in his new gig as a law dean.
What a weird coincidence that this was the same dean involved in Peanutgirlgate:
http://abovethelaw.com/2007/11/dingdong_the_peanuthating_witc.php
5 - You're citing a list that has Michigan at #2 while Harvard and Yale are at #6 and #10, and you think that reflects the way that Vault firms about schools? I can only assume you are a sad 1L from a school that is boosted by that ranking system. (Indiana and Minnesota, seriously?!)
A delightful post. Who is this LAT? LAT, your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
lat, you shouldn't take pleasure in others misfortunes.
*goes back to feeling good about my relative position (having a firm job) compared with my classmates*
-nervous T-10 1L
soon to be nervous 1L sa
sort of looks like cliff from cheers with a beard: http://www.law.villanova.edu/academics/faculty/biographies/deans/sargent/
phenomenal work, snuck in a little Elie bashing to appease us too
Dean Sargent = racist.
17 - I guess you missed the earlier post that contained a link to the new rankings. Villanova moved UP 7 spots in the last year.
Oh yeah, fire this idiot.
cornell grad. nuff said
35 - Mythbusters demonstrated that by hitting the ground running you are actually at a disadvantage.
Villanova is a good school, and Sargent is a good dean.
But this is still very funny.
How I wish that NTT1L ends up at my office this summer and I know who he is.
32 = dean sargent
35 - Mythbusters demonstrated that by hitting the ground running you are actually at a disadvantage.
I currently go to VLS and I can say with complete confidence that most of our professors, save a few of the corporate law professors, are completely incompetent and should not be allowed to work the deep fryer at McDonald's unsupervised let alone be tasked with shaping the minds of the mentally challenged individuals attempting to be lawyers at this school.
The new building is pretty tight though... so I got that going for me, which is nice.
Welcome to the ninth circle, Dean Sargent.....
nervous T-10 1L,
I was surprised to see you posting--I thought you had given up your career on the comments board. As you apparently haven't done that yet, you should look into it.
43- i did catch that post but dont consider a rise of 7 anything to cream in my pants for, especially at the cost we paid for this education. we used to be ranked in the top 50 but fell precipitously after sargent took over. so, that 7 points rise is really just a clawback of the loss he helped cause.
also, if anyone is into tax law, maule's blog is the shit. i had him for tax at villanova and he is the best. he was the first person that really talked to us about the costs of our education and how it affects our legal career...unfortunately, it was too late, but it kept me from buying that new bmw and large house right out of law school.
Maule has an excellent post about those kids at Building A Better Legal Profession:
http://mauledagain.blogspot.com/2009_04_01_archive.html#5186846785497895551
omg, the elie bash is gold. come home, Lat. come home.
WOW. Lat is hilarious.
I can only imagine some of the meetings where Lat has been forced to chastise Elie for spelling errors. I bet it was as uncomfortable for Lat as it was for Elie.
That being said, spelling errors don't really bother me and I think that Elie does a great job.
52--that is a Nervous Impostor. Nervous was outed and went outy.
Dean Sargent is a colossal douche.
Anyone know a good lawyer?
58 - colossal? Perhaps astringent, potent, refreshing even, but colossal?
Whoever forwarded this to you is a real asshole.
This is hysterical. All the more reason for Villanova students to transfer across town to Penn State.
T-10 1L is such a douchebag.
61 wishes he had forwarded it.
Someone squeezed all the life out of these kids at Villanova. And unless movies and TV have lied to me, it's a crusty, bitter old dean!
Comment removed by moderator.
59 - No, not really.
37: Pull yourself together and give that comment another try. Make it coherent this time.
Thanks Dean S for making me really happy to be leaving this place. And also for making VLS look so great. You've been an inspiration.
60,
I smiled at such a reply.
I am a grad of VLS. I was on law review and had occasion to interact with all the professors and administrators. I saw dean Sargent maybe twice in my 3 years at the school. I was at the school all the freaking time. The professors are what keeps the school moving up in the rankings each year and the new building will help. But Dean Sargent really really sucks at his job and continues to do stupid things like this that reflect so poorly on the school. In all seriousness, Sargent should step down. The students have far more respect for Brogan, at least she is visible around the school and sends thoughtful emails to the student body. Notice I said thoughtful. On a related note, career services should all be dismissed and replaced, they are worthless.
59 - Is this a trick question?
Good as in a good person or good as in they know they law and will help you screw the bejeezus out of someone?
Comment removed by moderator.
58- i wont go so far as to call him a douche, but i am close.
How does this keep happening? How do you accidentally add 3 groups to an email when its supposed to go to one person?
Thanks Dean Sargent. Its hard enough to find a job out there, but at least you are making my alma mater look like a joke.
This post is awesomeness - especially the reference to Elie's TTTyping services. Good to see the ATL editors poking fun at themselves/each other.
GW@28
I hate that every post on the main page ends with "after the jump."
As a fairly recent VLS grad, I completely echo everything 71 says. Dean Sargeant doesn't know one student in the school. I have been to events where he would speak, and we would just all roll our eyes when it was his turn to speak because we were wondering what he was going to say next. I have no idea how Dean Brogan puts up with him - she is the one who should be in charge. He embarrasses the school time and time again.
59 - Is this a trick question?
Good as in a good person or good as in they know they law and will help you screw the bejeezus out of someone?
Villanova is a joke. They make you buy your own paper! The grad speaker is a joke (chosen by Sargent)! The building is falling down! And Mike is always in the library! GO MYKE!
57 - in what post was Nervous outted? I wanna read...
Villanova is a joke. They make you buy your own paper! The grad speaker is a joke (chosen by Sargent)! The building is falling down! And Mike is always in the library! GO MYKE!
78 - Welcome to Ad Revenue Metrics 101. Clicking "after the jump" ups the pageviews = more coin for ATL.
Villanova is a joke. They make you buy your own paper! The grad speaker is a joke (chosen by Sargent)! The building is falling down! And Mike is always in the library! GO MYKE!
81, 83, 85 - So what if you buy your own paper? Do they make you buy your own groceries too?
Oh, the humanity!
My favorite part? The holier-than-thou response from the Dean. So tragically typical...
This is post is solid gold, Lat! Had a smile on my face the whole time I was reading it. Nice work.
Say what you will about Dean Sargent and his e-mail difficulties, but at least he's not Dean James (a.k.a. Dean WalkAround). http://www.law.villanova.edu/academics/faculty/biographies/deans/james/
This guy draws 6 figures a year as a dean, albeit "Associate Dean for Information Services," but honestly does absolutely NOTHING besides walking around the halls and saying "Hello" to the dozen or so black kids at Villanova Law while completely ignoring everyone else, namely white students.
I wish I was lying to you all about this.
Glad to be leaving all this crap behind,
3L who wasted $140,000 at Villanova Law School
The paper policy isn't a bad one. It prevents waste. And they sell it very cheap - only $2.25 a ream - that's really nothing to complain about.
That Dean must feel very Latham right now.
I completely agree with most of the posts that Dean Sargent is incompetent and needs to step down from his job. However, I take issue with the fact few stand up to him. We all think he's an idiot, but no one says or does much. Even when people do stand up to him (i.e. booing him at the 3L brunch and starting a petition about the graduation speaker), he responds by laughing it off and dismissing the courageous individual.
In short, I think it's up to the students and the alumni to work together to get things changed. It's difficult, but not impossible to remove him and bring the school back up in the ratings.
Yes, the internet truly is a kind of hell for a principal in a gazillion dollar fraud scheme that counts on disenfranchised former law students NOT being able to contact one another and/or put the word out about the BOGUS placement stats and gaming of the USNWR stats that routinely goes on.
89-
BEST POST OF ALL TIME, and sadly, so true
90 - Hehehe, you said ream.
TTTyping Services by Elie.... ROFL.....
89 is dead on about Dean James. No idea what he does all day. He's even worthless when you ask him to help you with something. He acts like you're asking for one of his kidneys.
VLS has a lot of excellent professors, though. Some bad ones, yes, but some really good ones too.
97--
Made me cry tears of laughter
What idiots are saying he should step down because of this? I wouldn't be embarrassed of anything said in that email if I were him. The man does a hell of a job, regardless of what some disgruntled bottom-of-the-class students may say.
And 89, awesome post. I never bothered to find out what that guy's position is exactly, but I did notice he refuses to even make eye contact with people in the halls
This is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.
It's just funny (esp. since he was the dean from Peanut Girl Gate).
"This was ACCIDENTALLY sent to a wide list. It was supposed to go only to a group of administrators most concerned with the issue. I believe it is thoroughly inapporopriate [sic] for you to publish something that was not intended for a wide audience, and that will not contribute to any kind of helpful dialogue and only serve to embarrass us."
Dean Sargent,
Your actions are the ones embarrassing us!
Penn ran out of student raised public interest funds and has also run out of work study funds for students doing unpaid work this summer. There's a wait list for work study funds, but some people won't be getting anything.
UVA has run out of public interest funding this year and last year. It was particularly bad there last year because the law school told everyone to apply for public interest funding and advertised the fact that in prior years, everyone who applied for funding received it. Also, unless you work for a professor for the summer, UVA doesn't offer any sort of work study funding for students doing unpaid work. The school has money for automatic foaming hand soap dispensers, but nothing for students.
62, I think you mean "across the state," not "across town." Penn State is nowhere near Philadelphia....
103, they meant what they wrote... it's an ongoing joke one this board. But more disturbingly, does the fact that you're responding to the 62nd post mean you actually sat down and read through everyone's comments? If you're new to this site, here's a lesson: don't bother reading the trash that people leave on the comment boards. They hide comments now so people don't have to read FIRST!!!! after ever post
This was great. It was the first ATL post that made me laugh in many months.
And I'd have to second the sentiments about T-10 1L: i am not at all interested in "soon to be 1L sa".
How do you know it WASN'T his secretary who screwed it up? Maybe he should be handling his own emails.
104, how is that a joke? Whatever, I don't care.
-103
"UVA has run out of public interest funding this year and last year. "
Off topic, but what might be a nice topic, is how low alumni donations have fallen that at one point helped stem this tide.
Word on the street is that at UVA donations are off between 50% and 75% for the majority of the last 10 classes. Not good.
It was probably him, but on a Blackberry or something.
71 here.
Post 89 is freaking awesome. If Dean Sargent is actually reading these comments:
You can totally redeem yourself by putting an end to the biggest waste of money that VLS is making and get rid of that racist mother fu**er that is Dean James. He does NOTHING but walk around all day and never once responded to my repeated attempts to say hello.
You guessed it, I am caucasian.
106 - A secretary would leave his or her initials at the end of the email (just as secretaries do with hard copy correspondence).
107, b/c Penn students are supposed to get upset at being confused with Penn State students
I don't think this is all that embarrassing for Dean Sarge or Villanova. Now if the email had contained something embarrassing (or otherwise unprofessional) I would hold him to his words, but accidentally hitting reply all? C'mon. The irony is worth a chuckle but I'm not about to pass judgment on a Dean, his professionalism, or the law school he works for because of a silly slip.
113 - Agreed. It's just funny to see a law school dean commit what he called "the oldest mistake in the history of email" - twice.
Law. A shit profession or the biggest shit profession?
108 - Sounds more like a job for TaxProfBlog... law schools are all big enough to have to file Form 990's which can be obtained from the IRS. ATL's more interested in anecdotal gossip, Caron'll do the hard number crunching.
Well, since everyone at Villanova is reading this, who's more attractive O'Hare or Wertheimer?
Here's my analysis:
O'Hare is like the large sassy black lady that you know you've always wanted to conquer. Her bloodshot eyes and revealing solid cardigans penetrate your soul with the echoing message: I'm going to ravish you if ever I get a hold of you alone.
Werthemier on the other hand is like the big kid you've always wanted to dominate. She wears her mini-backpack like a hip Asian girl trying to fit in and munches tantalizingly on her brown bag lunches. Strutting her milk shake down the halls of Garey knowing that there are people, like Dellapenna and you, thinking about parking their skin bus into her fluffy sausage wallet.
Villanowhere should just do the Philadelphia legal community a favor and close its law school.
The twits that the school churns out are an embarrassment to the legal profession, even in Filthydelphia.
And why do these UPennState kids still not understand how their school works?
Another law school that should close all of its numerous campuses.
Nice to know that in an economy like this, there are 1Ls and 2Ls at VLS who are stupid enough to shoot their own school in the foot by forwarding ridiculous emails like these to a blog like this. Nicer still to know that there are other Nova students who can't seem to get enough out of one-upping one another with amazingly ill-considered rants and raves in the comments section of a blog like this.
At least, however, the Nova students engaged in said behavior are commenting on their own school, and not engaging in something as definitively loserish as leaving sophomoric comments about a law school they don't even attend.
Stay classy, ATL.
Villanova should implement a confirmation protocol for sending emails to schoolwide lists. That is, the mailserver would respond to the sender or designated admin with an email saying "This is about to be sent to the enter JD2009 list. To confirm, reply to this email and type OK in the body."
Actually, almost anyone with control over a mass mail list should implement something like this.
120, the people who forwarded the email to ATL may be assholes, but I don't see how they're shooting themselves in the foot. Do you really think an employer is going to say, "Well your class rank and journal experience are impressive, but there was that time your dean hit 'reply all'. . ."
123, 120 was commenting more about the general clownishness of bad-mouthing one's own law school. the dean's gaffe, itself, is pretty innocuous, imo.
This is by far the funniest ATL post in a long time. Well, the herpes one was pretty good times too.
Re: Mr. James
I have a good feeling that the administrations at most universities could be halved and no one would ever notice.
It's hard to complain seeing as though I've already coughed up sticker for three years, but seeing the fleet of luxury automobiles parked in front of the university doesn't exactly make me feel good about all the dragass I see going on in the school's halls. Mush, you rent seeking mutts, mush.
They should take Dean James' salary and use it to buy paper.
I used to care about people who didn't have luxury automobiles...
but then I just went on living my life.
Re Peanut Girl, I missed the original post, but I'm with the dean. I can just imagine the uproar that must have ensued when they kicked peanuts to the curb. I mean, come on, trail mix? WTF?! Was Peanut Girl given to rummaging in trash cans where she might accidentally come in contact with trail mix and candy bar wrappers? Did her skin blister if she came in contact with a doorknob previously touched by a student who had been a Reese's Cup? And wait til she gets out in the real world, where deliverymen eating Snickers deliver packages to the office and (gasp!) touch a counter or doorknob she might later come in contact with. Can't wait for the sequel on this one.
Dean James says hello to me and I'm a white student. You guys are taking this too far.
130 - sounds like you are tacitly agreeing that the man does nothing but roam the halls...
How long until this whole thing blows over? We all know that law students LOVE gossip and have short attention spans. It's only a matter of time until the next "scandal" comes about and people jump onto that bandwagon. We're are going to be professionals here, it's about time we start acting like one.
129 - Read the Peanut Girl post, it's fun:
http://abovethelaw.com/2007/11/dingdong_the_peanuthating_witc.php
89 .. you're dead on about Dean James. I have said "hello Dean James" right to his face and he just walked past me saying nothing.
I take issue with any comment re: Dean James and racism. that is a pretty sh**ty thing to say about him.
He is not racist at all...perhaps a space cadet, but not racist.
The job description, though, is suspect at best.
The Dean was brought in to raise money and to supervise the development of the new building. The new building is years behind schedule and the fundraising has been lackluster at best. The worst part is that the building looks like it was designed in the 1970s and I am sure the quality will match.
Worse still, the Dean has directly or indirectly forced out the best professors at the law school. Both Prof. Anderson (now dean CUNY law) and Prof. Magarian (now at WUSTL) are outstanding instructors are were loved by their students. They represented the younger generation of professors that VLS needed to retain and grow, but both of them were unhappy with the administration. Their view is shared by other professors at the law school.
Villanova used to be a top 50 school, but has fallen as a result of poor management and ineffective leadership. While the undergrad grows and improves its reputation, the law school is stagnant. The only hope is to go forward with new, fresh talent, which, up to this point, has been put off by the backward traditional catholic attitude of the school and the manifest incompetitence of its leadership.
All is not lost, however. Villanova still holds the highest judges and lawyers reputation rating of the 50-100 schools in USNWR (3.3) and has good relationships with the law firms in the area. It also has a dedicated group of alumni. The school needs to replace its current administration with the type of young talent it has driven off. Only that will bring it back into the top 50 and satisfy its students and alumni.
15, when did you start saying "EPIC FAIL?" I thought that I made it up about five years ago. Do tell...
I laughed out loud reading this. Brilliant. The guy sounds like a real blow hard. And he couldn't even proofread his reply to you, which he had to know would be posted. How many more competent people would be happy to take his job?
As a person who has connections with powerful partners in NY LATHAM, I can assure you that there will be significant stealth layoffs next month. And don't expect 6 months severance either or be allowed to hang around on our website. 3 months lump sum and out. We don't care if you are pregnant either - ask for a bailout from the federal government, not us.
-I am safe biatches
There's no evidence that a catholic tradition and a high quality legal education are incompatible.
This comment thread is peppered with ad hominem attacks, appeals to widespread belief, argument by selective observation, and reductio ad absurdum. Law schools should provide more education regarding proper ways to argue, and spend less time worrying about irrelevant scandal sheets.
"If you're looking for a highly skilled typist whose prose is always error-free, we're happy to offer you the services of our very own Elie Mystal."
Hilarious! Great post.
RE: Peanut Girl Post
All jokes/annoyances with the student with the peanut allergy aside, I think the main message from that post, at least for those of us who were students there, is that Dean Sargent completely made up the story about the peanut party and the munchins and the witch. It was completely false. It was like he was at a party and wanted to sound cool and jus totally made up a story. There was no party. I think the SBA had their usual back to school party-thing, and they had snacks with peanuts. That was it. There was no peanut party. So the post just showed that Dean Sargent (a) is the guy trying to make conversation by making up stories, (b) knows nothing about the students at his law school, and (c) shows his lack of attention to detail by doing the whole 'reply all' thing.
Also, it is interesting that good professors have left under his tenure while not-so-good ones have been brought in through these "chairs" that are supposed to be helping the school. In the last 4 years, some of the newer professors have been the worst ones. I wonder if they will ever realize that the quality of education is not connected as much to the building but to the quality of instruction we are getting in the classrooms.
I attended VLS about 20 years ago. It is still the same today as it was in the late 1980's. Brogan is a VLS grad. She was an associate at Morgan for about a year or two and returned to VLS to teach. She has spent most of her life in Garey Hall. Sargent sends feel good letters to the alumni asking for money. The problem is that VLS has for years treated students who are not in the top 5% like crap. And so now it is unable to generate much in the way of contributions from these alumni who are now all grown up and have made their way in the world on their own- without any help from Career Services etc. Temple and Rutgers have surpassed VLS, What Sargent and Brogan do not get is that VLS has slid in stature not because its building looks like a 1950's Catholic high school, but because the place is filled with administrators, deans and teachers who do not respect their students. The new building is not going to change the environment. To borrow from Jack Nicholson from "Batman"- "This school need an enema".
The only point here is that the Dean needs to better with "Reply All." If we were actually considering spelling errors, we might look at Elie's repeated postings, which never to seem to be spell-checked (and those are actually intended to be read by the masses). I really don't know why anyone cares, particularly David Lat. Must have been a slow news day.
Are you kidding me, this guy is named "Dean Sargant"? Wasn't that the name of the Dean in Animal House? And who is this Maule that Sargant refers to in his e-mail? He sounds like a real party too. Sounds like a school with a lot of very uptight and not very creativesouls. Lots of form over substance. Memo to Sargant: forget about bitching about ATL and your own vanity-get on the phone and call your two US Senators and get some more frigging work study money. Obama took PA; Arlen Spector is up for re-election. He would ,love nothing more than to help out a Catholic University in one of Philadelphia's most important suburbs. Geez, wake up stiffs.......
I went to Villanova as an undergrad, and I find this embarrassing. Replying to all is one thing, but please, use spell check before you send an email!!!!
The description of Dean James is accurate. He even got his son a job at the school and is his direct superior which is against University policy . He is also vindictive towards employees who leave for better jobs and will then bad mouth them to those left behind. I would love to see my fellow students approach him and ask him for Reference help to show how useless he is. His day consists of walking the halls and asking people what's for lunch.
"Worse still, the Dean has directly or indirectly forced out the best professors at the law school. Both Prof. Anderson (now dean CUNY law) and Prof. Magarian (now at WUSTL) are outstanding instructors are were loved by their students."
136 what a bunch of crap. One guy goes on to become dean at CUNY and the midwesterner Mangarian trades up to Washington in St. Louis, this is being forced out?
144, lighten up. This is just for entertainment purposes.
As for Elie's countless typos, Lat made fun of them too:
"If you're looking for a highly skilled typist whose prose is always error-free, we're happy to offer you the services of our very own Elie Mystal. For his rates and availability, email us (subject line: 'TTTyping Services by Elie')."
I know we have gotten off of the Dean Sargent issue here, but I have to make a comment about Dean James. He is absolutely racist. The description of him roaming the halls and acknowledging only black students is completely dead on. And, it is unacceptable to me that he gets a free pass in this regard because he is an African American.
Villanova just moved up 8 ranking spots, FWIW.
148 - Prof. (now Dean) Anderson was basically forced out because the administration didn't give her any support for causes that were too "uncatholic," or so the story goes. My estimation is that many of these profs are just leaving because they see stagnation at the top of the ladder. In addition to those mentioned by posters above, Profs. Carroll and Pistone - both excellent and engaging instructors - have left VLS for greener pastures because their careers have gone as far as they can go there.
Dean Sargent was brought in because he's an excellent fundraiser - a purpose he's served well. That said, he's spent a lot more time tending to fundraising matters than he has to student matters, which has lost him the respect of the student body. Now that the new building is paid for and built, perhaps it's about time to get someone who can build a program instead of just a facility. Dean Brogan, who is both an excellent and dedicated instructor and a great dean, is liked by nearly all the students (with the exception of those students to whom she refused something to which they thought they were entitled, but students who think they're entitled to something are pretty common at VLS. See: Joe Biden's nephew, 1L class of '08).
There are a lot of great professors at VLS (who I am not going to set up on the firing line for half the "commentators" here by naming them), but like any school there are those who appear to be functionally retarded or so full of themselves that they're counterproductive to the school's mission (See: a certain Dean of Faculty Research)
The school has what I understand is an exceptional new facility. All it needs now is a few major revisions in administration (I'll second notions of ousting Dean Walkaround and Dean Walkaround Jr.), and VLS would easily crack the Top 50 within a year or two.