Five. Five Dollar. Five Dollar Ad-Viiiiiice
Today, Craigslist brings us the latest example of a (soon-to-be) lawyer trying to make it work in this difficult economy. Here’s the ad:
I am an experienced law student willing to answer your legal questions. The fee is $5 per question. To take advantage of this offer email your question to [Redacted]. You will then get a response with your answer. Must pay through PAYPAL ACCOUNT. ALL EMAILs must include the following information:NAME
ADDRESS
TELEPHONE NUMBER
CITY/STATE
YOUR QUESTION
Now, it’s been a while since I took the MPRE, and I was all kinds of hung-over when I passed it. But isn’t there some kind of — I don’t know, rule — about giving legal advice when you are not a lawyer?
Seriously though, he doesn’t “hold himself out to be a lawyer,” so maybe that helps?
Either way, Bert J. van der Werff is just a guy trying to make some money during rough times. We speak with the student after the jump.
We were surprised that van der Werff was charging so little for his legal advice question answering services. But in a statement he provided to Above the Law, this is just the first step in a vast legal empire of the future:
Well, I am currently a student of law. I also plan to own my own law firm int he future. I have accumulated much experience, more than the average law student I’d say. So I am just trying to make a little extra cash on the side. All of the information provided is accurate and up to date. With each question, I will include a reference list for the answer, so the customer will know where exactly the answer was derived from, while also providing them with additional information if needed.
Well, there you have it. It’s easy to chide Mr. van der Werff, but at least here’s one law student that is not taking the tanking economy sitting down. Talk about killing the billable hour, here’s a guy whose is willing to tackle a whole legal issue for a flat fee that almost any client can afford.
Maybe some of our Section 90 commenters will fork over $5 to get some more firepower for their claims?
Legal Advise-$5 per question (ANYWHERE) [Craigslist]
P.S. “ANYWHERE.” Brilliant.
Update: Click here for our continuing coverage of the story. Mr. Van der Werff has issued an apology and retraction.
(187) 
Comments
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First?
I'd rather have the meatball sub.
first- idiot
I have some advice: learn how to spell "advice."
Not First, I hope
What school is OSWEGO?
My first question to this peon would be what is the New York criminal statute that makes it a crime to give legal advice without a law license?
If I'm not mistaken oswego.edu refers to SUNY OSWEGO., which does not have a law school - is this kid pre law there?
I hear the bar admissions examiners really like people who have experience in the unauthorized practice of law.
yawn...
ironic that elie didn't pick up on the blatant misspelling of advice
I am the CEO of a particular American auto manufacturer. We filed for Chapter 11 today, but I'm concerned with legal costs.
My one questions is: whats the best way for me to restructure?
That's one question right? Here's the fiver.
See, here's the thing. I would totally be willing to pay you $5.00, or even $10.00, for a legal answer or two. But how do I know it is correct? What if I were to rely upon your answer and it proved not to be correct? I think that would be a pretty reasonable thing for me to do, don't you? I think you are setting yourself up to be the defendant in some sort of equitable proceeding. I can't quite put my finger on what doctrine I would sue you under, but I'll check some hornbooks and get back to you.
I hope he isn't using his free law school Lexis and Westlaw for this venture. It is a violation of terms he agreed to when he accepted his student id.
I am offended by subsequent comments, please close down comments for this thread or at the very least remove comment 12, 14, 15, 23 and 27.
Thanks!
PE - You are a crime to your mother's vagina.
UVA2L
Quick Facebook search says this kid's a Syracuse student. Brilliant!
Brilliant. Not only is he giving legal advice without a license, but he's doing it in numerous jurisdictions.
Thankfully, though, he's an "experienced" law student.
It doesn't matter if you hold yourself out as a lawyer. Providing legal advice for money constitutes the unauthorized practice of law, assuming you aren't a licensed attorney at the time. By the way, I'll answer any and all questions, legal or otherwise, for $1B each.
Michelle Obama's vagina kills kittens.
I hope he isn't using his free student lexis and westlaw access. It is a violation of the terms he agreed to when he accepted his ids.
They will both come and charge him for useage and that will cost him more than what he is charging per search
what a d-bag. the same goes for #20.
How does one become an experienced law student?
I hope he isn't using his free student lexis and westlaw access. It is a violation of the terms he agreed to when he accepted his ids.
They will both come and charge him for useage and that will cost him more than what he is charging per search
There was recently a medical student in Boston who ran a program similar to this using Craigslist.
I'm sure that providing this guy your name, number, and address is safe, though.
12 -- here's how you should "restructure": pack up your stuff & move to a non-extradition country.
That'll be $500.
I'm no lawyer, but if this student reasonably relied on a promise (even if it was never explicit!) from SUNY Oswego that becoming a law student would allow him to answer legal questions, he may have a claim under Section 90 of the Restatement of Torts. I would also look into a claim of criminal quantum meruit -- he may be able to recoup a large portion of his tuition from the school under an unjust enrichment theory if they made such a promise in bad faith.
Right now these seems like "slam dunk" arguments, but I need to look into these matters a little further to be sure.
I hope he isn't using his free student lexis and westlaw access. It is a violation of the terms he agreed to when he accepted his ids.
They will both come and charge him for useage and that will cost him more than what he is charging per search
Well, that's one way to ensure that you're never admitted to the bar...
13-
You should probably look up section 90. Promissory estoppel or something like that, I think. But if I'm wrong, please don't rely on my information. No need for circular reasoning.
Facebook also appears to suggest his girlfriend is attractive.
Any chances for this kid to be quietly told not to do what he is doing just went out the window. ATL has ensured every C&F in the country will ding this guy.
OMG the Westlaw and Lexis representatives need to stop the comments about how that dude's violating the terms of agreements... unless you're giving me a $5 Starbucks card I don't wanna hear it
You can get $5 advice from an attorney at the Dekalb County Family Law Center.
with a name like that this was bound to happen
Ad is from Tallahassee Craigslist. Florida State?
What a great day!
We can rejoice over the suicide of a senior, well-respected member of the bar whilst simulaneously ensuring the eventual suicide of an aspiring bar member! Brilliant!
Thanks, 30. I just looked it up. It's not quite what I was thinking of but it may be worth a shot. I think actually I was referring to some sort of First Amendment / Section 90 hybrid claim, namely, if I were to rely on this kid's exercise of free speech in giving me legal advice, and if my reliance was reasonable (given the First Amendment concerns), then I would have a First Amendment / Section 90 hybrid claim.
I know this would be a novel legal theory but I just thought of it and it seems plausible.
Oswego students tend to go to the best law schools.
http://reemst.com/calvin_and_hobbes/stripsearch/1989/3/5/calvin_and_hobbes.html
What a dumbass.
I think he got his business plan from the Michael Scott Paper Company.
Michelle Obama's vagina kills kittens.
If the legal advice doesn't work out, you can always hire Leon's "persuasion service." http://tallahassee.craigslist.org/lgs/1139664478.html
This is the worst title for a post ever.
Elie is a fool if he thinks I need promissory estoppel advice from the likes of this student. I am currently enrolled in contracts at a top law school, and when I say Restatement 90 applies, you can non-detrimentally rely on it, if you get my drift.
Dear Sir,
I am GC at a large, NYSE-listed corporation. A class of plaintiffs recently commenced an action seeking $3 billion in damages from our directors with regard to criminal penalties our organization incurred for a series of 10b-5 violations. Plaintiffs allege that our directors violated their duty of good faith by ignoring repeated "red flags" raised by our internal control system. They claim that neither Caremark nor Stone v. Ritter forecloses this theory and that the demand requirement is excused given the number and magnitude of the warning signs that our directors allegedly ignored. Of course, we want to toss this matter to an SLC. What would be the best way to proceed?
Elie - Make yourself a little more useful and do a post on the growing number of broken relationships lawyers (including me) are facing in this economy because of their own stupid fears and insecurities.
-Suffering DC Associate
I wonder if he plans on using Lexis and Westlaw on his school account to get the legal advice. Isn't there, ah-hem, some sort of rule against this?
Ha! I'm taking a break from ridiculous research at work right now. Maybe I can pay this guy $5 and outsource it instead?
36 = FAIL.
See comments 17 and 31.
It seems like all he's really doing is providing statutory references - if this is the case, then I don't think he's acting illicitly....
...and 2nd of all, (and I'm addressing douche bags who insist on hating) I think its great that someone is taking some entrepreneurial initiative during these times....Maybe of some of you did this, we wouldn't have to hear incessant BITCHING about how you can't find a job...
Thanks,
Z
Do law librarians need a law degree let alone a law license to send a link online for an answer to a possible legal question?
Elie - Broaden your material a little and do a post on the growing number of broken relationships lawyers (including me) are facing in this economy because of their own stupid fears and insecurities. Many thanks
-Suffering DC Associate
What kind of country do we live in where quality legal advice is cheaper than a handjob from a street whore? The rule of law is DEAD, I tell you . . .
If NewsFlash doesn't come back, I'm going to steal his schtick. It was too fruitful to go unused. Fair warning. I'll give it a few days.
Elie - Broaden your material a little and do a post on the growing number of broken relationships lawyers (including me) are facing in this economy because of their own stupid fears and insecurities. Many thanks
-Suffering DC Associate
It seems like all he's really doing is providing statutory references - if this is the case, then I don't think he's acting illicitly....
...and 2nd of all, (and I'm addressing douche bags who insist on hating) I think its great that someone is taking some entrepreneurial initiative during these times....Maybe if some of you did this, we wouldn't have to hear incessant BITCHING about how you can't find a job...
Thanks,
Z
It seems like all he's really doing is providing statutory references - if this is the case, then I don't think he's acting illicitly....
...and 2nd of all, (and I'm addressing douche bags who insist on hating) I think its great that someone is taking some entrepreneurial initiative during these times....Maybe if some of you did this, we wouldn't have to hear incessant BITCHING about how you can't find a job...
Thanks,
Z
This kid has publicly done to his law career what I publicly did to myself.
36 = FAIL.
See comments 17 and 31.
I am almost positive this kid is an undergrad at Suny Oswego - I mean he looks young and view his friends - the majority are all SUNY OSWEGO class of '10 or '11
It seems like all he's really doing is providing statutory references - if this is the case, then I don't think he's acting illicitly....
...and 2nd of all, (and I'm addressing douche bags who insist on hating) I think its great that someone is taking some entrepreneurial initiative during these times....Maybe if some of you did this, we wouldn't have to hear incessant BITCHING about how you can't find a job...
Thanks,
Z
It seems like all he's really doing is providing statutory references - if this is the case, then I don't think he's acting illicitly....
...and 2nd of all, (and I'm addressing douche bags who insist on hating) I think its great that someone is taking some entrepreneurial initiative during these times....Maybe if some of you did this, we wouldn't have to hear incessant BITCHING about how you can't find a job...
Thanks,
Z
This is a lot easier to do when you have "free" Westlaw and Lexis as a law student.
"I can't believe that this bastard has stolen my family's business model...if this catched on my family back home in India will have to work for Dell customer service!" - Apu Nahasapeemapetilon Ph.D.
38 is amazing.
Oswego students tend to go to the best law schools.
im going to ask him to explain the rule against perpetuities.
im going to ask him to explain the rule against perpetuities.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/s.php?init=q&q=VANDERWE%40OSWEGO.EDU&ref=ts&sid=280827b94b2f4d55985d37e000387eef
He's at Syracuse. HAHA!
Go UConn!
This kid has an undergrad e-mail account and looks like he is 18 in his Facebook picture. Is this someone that ATL really needs to be going after?
A quick search of SUNY OSWEGO's personel directory states that he is a student there. They do not have a law school. Thus he is an undergrad and has never heard of the MPRE or possible violations. Ellie maybe a little research (5 minutes tops) would have uncovered this.
Odds this kid is getting pranked by a friend?
can i work for you?
27 here -- sorry everyone, but it looks like I overlooked a few key issues. Back to the drawing board!
What I'm curious about is whether any DC associates are suffering relationship problems right now.
This kid is an undergrad. From his Facebook page:
Activities:
Clubbin!
Interests:
Just chillen w my girl
Favorite Music:
Just about Anything
Favorite TV Shows:
Law and Order, Price is Right, CSI,
Favorite Books:
NA...................I DONT READ
Favorite Quotations:
"LIVE LIKE YOU WERE DYIN' "
"I DON'T GIVE A FUCK!"
"YOU GOT BALLS ON THAT MOTHER?"
"WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"OH NO!......NOT THE BOOBIES!"
About Me:
I'm 21, and i graduated from CCC with my associates degree. Now im at Oswego where we know how to have a good time...Sheldon Hall Rocks!
Sounds like someone to trust with giving legal advice.
Hey, why not give it a try?
I'm sure people will line up to buy.
You're sure to generate
If you're beating the rate
Of every outsourcing firm in Mumbai.
53 -- you can't be serious.
experienced law student?
I think he may be overstating his paralegal certificate from SUNY Oswego a bit.
Sweet. This should take care of the huge research assignment I've been floundering on.
Between the Kilpatrick post and this, Lat will never again vacation without his Blackberry
21 - what is WL going to get him on? Do they have some sort of estoppel claim?
Damn. I thought this was amusing before but now that we've seen excerpts from his Facebook profile it's just kind of sad.
A law student said one day,
"I'll provide advice for pay."
But the Bar got mad,
And gang-raped this lad,
Then took his poor future away.
- Another Trite Limerickist
SO... i emailed this kid to tell him it was illegal and he said that he did not know that and thanks for the heads up.
53,
Law librarians do not send legal links directly to clients. They send them to lawyers, who are then responsible for determining whether the links are useful and exhaustive on a subject.
I emailed the kid too and CC'd the state bar.
Do law librarians need a law degree let alone a law license to send a link online for an answer to a possible legal question?
53- the law librarians at my school have law degrees ... i smell TTT
man I'm hungry. if only I could get a sandwich for $5.
Dear Suffering DC Associate:
I'd love to have a pity party with you, and I actually agree - I'd love to see a survey of how happy/miserable the readers of this site are, and how they feel it affects every other aspect of their lives/personality.
Desperate in Boston
Oswego students tend to go to the best law schools.
Wow. I wonder if this kid was inspired by a fact pattern from the MPRE. Too bad he didn't know the correct answer was (c) - the above fact pattern constitutes the unauthorized practice of law.
The limerick posters are the best thing to happen to above the law since the advent of the interwebs. Keep it coming fellas.
He doesn't say he's a law student. He says he's a 'student of the law.' Reading comprehension.
19:
This is Elie doing the reporting. Do you put more trust into his legal analysis than his fact checking abilities?
The limerick posters are the best thing to happen to above the law since the advent of the interwebs. Keep cumming in my mouth fellas.
PE
The limerick posters are the best thing to happen to above the law since the advent of the interwebs. Keep cumming in my mouth fellas.
PE
The limerick posters are the best thing to happen to above the law since the advent of the interwebs. Keep cumming in my mouth fellas.
PE
and according to myspace he's a new dad...
he's also selling a computer. http://newyork.inetgiant.com/AdDetails/1935530
you'd think a law student would not put his address on the web.
How is this different from what Latham did on that environmetal case, i.e. bill out unlicensed associates at $450 an hour? Don't tell me that an attorney supervised all of that billing.
"I have email tracking software on my computer and WILL report you to authorities! " Excellent...
First!
"I have email tracking software on my computer and WILL report you to authorities! " Excellent...
huh, my civ pro take-home is 2 questions. $10 and i can nap for 8 hours?
the more i learn about this kid the less i understand ellie's motivation for publicly destroying him
I know the economy sucks,
but if you just give me five bucks
I'll use my free Lexis
To analyze the nexus
Between the facts and the law for you fucks.
My effort will show no abatement
As I construct a well reasoned statement:
You were harmed? You relied?
And you were justified?
Promissory estoppel. See the Restatement.
The State University of New York - Oswego doesn't have a law school:
http://www.oswego.edu/academics/colleges_and_departments/departments/interdisciplinary/prelaw/
Just another con.
Way for all of you to ruin the potential career of some undergrad kid. he obviously doesn't know it's against the ethics rules. Someone should've just told him that. Instead, we post him on ATL and ruin him forever. Poor kid. A google search of his name will reveal this and he's never going to get a job. We should all be so proud to ruin a 20 year old kid from his life dream of being a lawyer.
Bert J. Van der Werff sounds like a good name for Partner Emeritus.
Am I the only one who hates these cat pictures??? Just seeing that cat on there makes me want to get my 12-gauge and go huntin
The limerick posters are the best thing to happen to above the law since the advent of the interwebs. Keep cumming in my mouth fellas.
PE
I am curious. The only SUNY law school is Buffalo, we all know that. So, is he hoping to go to law school? And does his desire to go to law school contitute a "law student". This dude is hilarious...and I am willing to guess likes rap music, and bling, and flavor of love, and KFC, and__________(you can fill in the blank)
112 "We should all be so proud to ruin a 20 year old kid from his life dream of being a lawyer. " I wish someone had done that for me in undergrad...
Model Rule 5.5 FTW
The question is, do members of the bar have an obligation to report him for unauthorized practice of law?
The opposition to this is ridiculous. This kind of competition is great, and society would be better off if people with knowledge of the law were allowed to disseminate their knowledge in this way.
110 - best. limerick. ever.
112 - I don't know that this is fatal to his prospects of being a lawyer, but he needs to handle it right. First, he needs to return all of the money that people have paid him. Second, he needs to call the state bar in whatever state he sees himself practicing, self report and plead for mercy, emphasizing that he didn't know it was against the law and that he didn't know he was breaching about a dozen ethics rules.
If he doesn't do that, he better pray really, really hard that they don't do a google search when he applies, because this is going to be the first 37 results. If he doesn't self report and they find out, there's no way he's admitted to the bar.
120 - except for the fact, that he wants to be a lawyer and it's against the ethics rules. If he was just some plumber giving out legal advice cheaply and smarly then good for him. However, if in 3 years he plans on applying to the bar he's gonna have some problems.
93 - Yes, me too. I'm grateful to have a job, it's just hard for (women in my case) to understand the sudden time obligations.
Elie - survey, please!!!!
-Suffering DC Associate
123 - Fuck the ethics rules--the limitation on competition is bad for society.
The limerick posters are the best thing to happen to above the law since the advent of the interwebs. Keep cumming in my mouth fellas.
PE
I hate all the commentors on hear posting about how they wish they never took the debt, hate being a lawyer, would've been better off out of undergrad doing something else, etc.
That's youth kids. We all make mistakes. I personally like being a lawyer. Mind you, after college, I worked for 4 years, went to grad school, worked 2 more, then went to law school. I went to a shit school on a full scholarship and landed top 5 in my class to ensure biglaw.
now I'm sorry to all the middle of the class 24 year olds who are screwed by the economic condition on the legal industry, etc. But that's life. You could've graduated college, worked a few years, start a business with your savings, to have it collapse under you with a gigantic amount of debt as well.
Grow the f up. Grow a pair. Didn't you ever hear "life isn't fair" as an answer as a kid? Or did your parents tell you everything would be perfect always? Haven't you ever been in a shit position before? Dust yourself off, pick yourself off, and move on. I know it sucks, but everyone has problems. I'm sick on nothing on this blog being interesting anymore. All comments are "woah is me, I'm laid off, I'm depressed"
GET OVER IT. If you have your health and good friends, then you're better off then a lot of people in this world. Money isn't everything. Hell, you could have your biglaw money, be driving in on your way to work, get in a horrible car accident, and be sued for millions of dollars you don't have for killing someone. Life isn't fair all the time. Just because you're screwed now, doesn't mean if you weren't laid off your life would be all peachy. Maybe it would've been worse. STOP BELLYACHING YOU ANNOYING BRATS!
I hate all the commentors on hear posting about how they wish they never took the debt, hate being a lawyer, would've been better off out of undergrad doing something else, etc.
That's youth kids. We all make mistakes. I personally like being a lawyer. Mind you, after college, I worked for 4 years, went to grad school, worked 2 more, then went to law school. I went to a shit school on a full scholarship and landed top 5 in my class to ensure biglaw.
now I'm sorry to all the middle of the class 24 year olds who are screwed by the economic condition on the legal industry, etc. But that's life. You could've graduated college, worked a few years, start a business with your savings, to have it collapse under you with a gigantic amount of debt as well.
Grow the f up. Grow a pair. Didn't you ever hear "life isn't fair" as an answer as a kid? Or did your parents tell you everything would be perfect always? Haven't you ever been in a shit position before? Dust yourself off, pick yourself off, and move on. I know it sucks, but everyone has problems. I'm sick on nothing on this blog being interesting anymore. All comments are "woah is me, I'm laid off, I'm depressed"
GET OVER IT. If you have your health and good friends, then you're better off then a lot of people in this world. Money isn't everything. Hell, you could have your biglaw money, be driving in on your way to work, get in a horrible car accident, and be sued for millions of dollars you don't have for killing someone. Life isn't fair all the time. Just because you're screwed now, doesn't mean if you weren't laid off your life would be all peachy. Maybe it would've been worse. STOP BELLYACHING YOU ANNOYING BRATS!
Did anyone report him yet?
110 FTW
DEAR SUFFERINGS:
Life is not fair. Grow a pair. Stop throwing yourself a pity party and move on. Are you dying? No. Then you're better off than a lot of people. I don't want to hear about your "poor me, I'm sad and lonely" story. That's what reading personal ads on craigslist is for. Commisserate there.
Thank you,
Everyone who has a life
This is probably the best thing that could have happened to him. Best case result is the bar preemptively bans him from ever practicing and decides not to make the $300K "investment" at Hofstra.
This is 110. Thanks. I'm about to post over on the Jury Duty story as the Limericker.
110 FTW!!!!
"flagged for removal" by craigslist.
dammit.
KICK ME IN THE JIMMY!
craigslist post was flagged for removal, no more $5 legal advice :(
Bravo 110! Laughed my ass off.
128-
Don't be a liar top 5 at Thomas Cooley will not land you BigLaw.
139 - top 5 at St. Johns will land you Paul Weiss.
http://www.myspace.com/233290938
St. John's is the church down the street from my loft. Nice Try
St. John's is the church down the street from my loft.
Nice Try though
140,
Or should I call you Marta? Fat people usually are fairly bitter...sorry, blame your parents!
This is 110. What is FTW?
FTW = For The Win. Gamer/Internet acronym expressing delight, approval, and general pwnage of perceived competition.
Hi, I am a very experienced law student in that I have occasionally attended law classes over the past two years. Even with my sparse attendance record, I can say with confidence that what this kid is doing is the definition of practicing law without a license. He would know that if he had ever taken legal ethics; so would all the 1L's on this board that think this is a free speech/ promissory estoppal issue (WTF?!?) I really hope those posts were from a real lawyer with a sense of humor. Law students should been seen and not heard (especially when it come to matters of law.)
117: ILU
As for the kid.. from his myspace:
May 18, 2008
"Hey everyone! Today is an amazing day! Im graduating from college w/ my associates degree in science/concentration criminal justice! "
wow, an A.Sc. with a concentration in criminal justice? He'll fit right in at GULC!
This guy is busted. This is clearly unlicensed practice of law in violation of Model Rule 5.5.
I think SUNY Albany also has a law school.
110>12>27>30
Albany Law isn't associated with SUNY Albany (the law school predates it). Buffalo has the only law school in NY attached to a state school (unless you count Cornell Law's being not very associated with Cornell's Agricultural School).
Oswego students... *sigh*
Dear Limerickers -
http://www.dltk-holidays.com/patrick/m-limerick.htm
plz note the syllable rules of limericks. These are more important and more concrete than Restatement 90, and should be adhered to rigorously, lest I seek to recover in quantum meruit.
Isn't it also an inappropriate use of Lexis and Westlaw to do research that garners pay? I'm assuming this person is relying on his ability to do such research. Will Lexis and Westlaw let him get away with it? Or charge his $100s for a single fed/state search? Not to mention $20 per print???
Thank you for posting that link
But my meter was not down the sink.
So you don't need the threat
of quantum meruit yet.
Let's discuss this over a drink.
Acknowledge the Lim Ricker's great
ATL fame is my fate.
I don't need your lesson
or Mystal's cyber-blessin,
I'll ascend to replace Lat, you just wait.
-- by: The Lim Ricker
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=233290938
He's reproducing, according to his myspace page
Since he's an undergrad at Oswego, I doubt he has a Lexis or WestLaw password to misuse - he's probably just looking up state statutes like they taught him at community college and saying "here's the 'law'"
Dude. He's a law student. Or at least that's what he claims. Or she. Bring on the Lexis/West smackdown!
He is not a law student - he has an associates in criminal justice from a local community college and has now *moved on* to undergrad. Read his myspace or facebook (links in prior comments).
Wait a minute. So, when I need to go outside my Westlaw and/or Lexis subscription in order to access some archaic treatise, I'm *not* supposed to simply ask one of the summer clerks for their student login? Really?
and the wrath of 1000 lexis and westlaw reps descend upon him
160-
The wastlaw nazis are going to stalk your IP address and slap you with a suit now. Never underestimate those assholes (I do the same thing with clerks)
*this entire message may or may not be a lie
I think the kid knew exactly what he was doing. Charge him and slap him with a stigma. He's 21 years old, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize you can't do that. But judging by his myspace it appears he has no intention of going to an actual law school (I may be wrong)
-He may actually be stupid enough to think that "criminology" or "criminal justice" are legal educations....that just dawned on me.
109, the reason for publicly destroying him is that what he is doing is wrong. That's pretty much the only reason I need.
162-
With the amount we are already shelling out to Westlaw and/or Lexis, they should be thanking their lucky stars that the enterprising young lawyers haven't successfully implemented their "free access" schemes (see www.justia.org and www.jdsupra.com) in a way useful to actual practitioners.
Now I've got to go get a clerk to download some more RICO treatises...
You guys are completely wrong. Oswego is a GREAT law school and they just hired a new dean, I think he came over from CUNY. This school is on the move..
I heard their mission is to have a lot of "students of law" who "plan to own their own law firm int he future". It is also strongly encouraged by the school to get some practical experience in business development and "trying to make a little extra cash on the side."
I don't see anything wrong with this guy...he has "accumulated much experience." Very likely "more than the average law student" (apparently you don't actually have to enroll in a law school to "accumulate much experience")
Hell, I give him a leg up on the Cooley Grads! At least he's out there drumming up business instead of just complaining about how inaccurate US News ranking are.
-Tarbosh
p.s. anyone want to open a craigslist shingle with Bert and I? Bert will be the "owner" though.
For five dollars, I'd ask him something like:
"Could you please describe the applicable exemptions to the usury laws in each state broken down by the types of entities issuing loans, including national banks, state banks, insurance companies and Lloyds syndicates".
Then I'd bill the client 58 hours for the research.
167 -
And to think that "he" is the one who wouldn't be allowed to practice law...
131 - you must be stuck in a shitty marraige
I am adopting 167's approach as firm-wide policy, effective immediately. That and firing associates.
According to his Facebook page, he is a "Public Justice/Forensics" major at Oswego. The program page mentions pre-law. He did criminal justice at his two-year community college before that, which probably explains his "more experience than most law students" comment.
This is my favorite quote: “I have accumulated much experience, more than the average law student I'd say. “
The fact that most junior associates, who are licensed to practice law, know shit makes it funny that a law student actually thinks he knows something. The average law student is like the average Bush supporter--dumb, ignorant, and drools a little out of the left side of their mouths so it doesn't take much "accumulated experience" to know more than a law student.
www.laidoffdiary.wordpress.com
On another note, on my blog, I had previously stated that if I heard the education connection song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYS5NtRXlZQ) again on TV, I was going to headbutt my television. They just re-did the song acoustically with some hick/ dorky/ extra chromosome looking guy (their Old Navy version of an "emo front man") signing the song. I need to up the ante. I'm going to have to headbutt a cop.
Dear Elie,
This is a blog read by people who proofread documents all day. Seeing shoddy gramatical errors is very irritating.
What's wrong with the following sentence?
"[H]ere's a guy whose is willing to tackle a whole legal issue. . . ."
We know this is "just a blog," but please take pride in your work.
kthxbye
Isn't a criminal justice major for people joining the Police Academy? If so,Bert- please say hi to Steve Guttenberg for me!
-Tarbosh
53 surely your having laugh with that comment. Theres no real logic in what you said
Every single one of you people are losers and need to get a life, not to mention are going to hell. You don't know this person...he probably didn't know he was doing anything wrong. Maybe he just was trying to make some money....you people are all idiots....NO EXCEPTIONS
Every single one of you people are losers and need to get a life, not to mention are going to hell. You don't know this person...he probably didn't know he was doing anything wrong. Maybe he just was trying to make some money....you people are all idiots....NO EXCEPTIONS
P. S. http://syracuse.craigslist.org/lgs/1148898438.html
Every single one of you people are losers and need to get a life, not to mention are going to hell. You don't know this person...he probably didn't know he was doing anything wrong. Maybe he just was trying to make some money....you people are all idiots....NO EXCEPTIONS
P. S. http://syracuse.craigslist.org/lgs/1148898438.html
Every single one of you people are losers and need to get a life, not to mention are going to hell. You don't know this person...he probably didn't know he was doing anything wrong. Maybe he just was trying to make some money....you people are all idiots....NO EXCEPTIONS
P. S. http://syracuse.craigslist.org/lgs/1148898438.html
If you take his legal advice the terrorist's win.
177-179:
Generally speaking, ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it, I think you'll find.
177-179: totally Bert J. van der Werf, and totally busted.
Poor Bert. What a dumb mistake.
Still, at least he's contrite (see: http://syracuse.craigslist.org/lgs/1148898438.html ). It may not excuse his gross lapse in judgment, but at least it articulates genuine remorse. He seems to have been appropriately humbled by this experience.
Speaking of humility, this seems like a great opportunity for the rest of us to reflect a bit upon our own fallibility - and then to stop gut-punching a kid, clamber on down from our pedestals, and move on.
Or, if we're feeling *really* adventurous, some of the more experienced among us might even consider reaching out to see if we can provide some constructive guidance to a person who is clearly in need of it. There is, after all, a fellow human being behind this foolish blunder.
183,
Yeah, let's all reach out and help this wigger who was too stupid to wear a condom. Let's help this kid who thinks SUNY Oswego's Criminal Justice program is enough to open a law firm with. It is embarassing that a douche-rocket like Bert could even think he will become a lawyer one day. This is why we need to get rid of all the Open-Enrollment law schools like Cooley, Florida Coastal, Depaul, etc...
Having completely ignorant people obtaining "law degrees" is ruining the reputation that lawyers are actually skilled practitioners. I can't stand it. This Bert kid, a load his mother should have swallowed, is an embarassment to society.
There are so many people whose lives have been ruined by greedy and unethical lawyers and corrupt judges, and they can't afford lawyers any more to fight back. They resign to fate. You may not know the magnitude of this phenomena. Law students should be allowed to help out by charging a little fee, and in fact they should organize themselves in groups and be guided and supported by their professors and make this a social movement to change society and cleanse our justice system.
There are so many people whose lives have been ruined by greedy and unethical lawyers and corrupt judges, and they can't afford lawyers any more to fight back. They resign to fate. You may not know the magnitude of this phenomena. Law students should be allowed to help out by charging a little fee, and in fact they should organize themselves in groups and be guided and supported by their professors and make this a social movement to change society and cleanse our justice system.
It is a misdemeanor to provide legal advice when you are not a lawyer.